Классика Алмазного огранщика: Верхний Срединный путь — Великие книги мудрости, занятие 51

[Speaker 1]
So, he accused... the other guy has accused Master Chandrakirti of saying that you go deeper, deeper, and then all that's left... LUS PA as a verb, okay?

Not body. All that's left is just an illusion, nothing more. Then, we tried to find that quotation.

The closest we came, excitingly, was in... his commentary to this book just before the verse we're doing. He segues into the verse we're doing on that idea.

So, it's very germane here, and I think that means we got the right quotation, and that they paraphrased him, right? Okay? And we worked through...

we've been working through Chandrakirti's statement, which is a lot easier than... Gyaltsabje. Okay, I'm sorry to say.

Maybe we should translate it Chandrakirti.

[Speaker 2]
Is this commentary longer though?

[Speaker 1]
I don't remember. But let's not spend time. Okay, here's where we stop.

DE BA'I NA. It's starting here in DE BA'I NA. You can read it from here if you want.

Oh, I can see it.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
POR. It's not an English B. It's not an English B.

POR. POR. POR.

POR. POR NE. TEN.

You almost had a bad tea day.

[Speaker 2]
Almost.

[Speaker 1]
He has a tea disease, and we're hoping it gets better after the birth. TEN CHUNG KHUR ROL YI. Oh, I added this.

KHUR ROL YI PHYO BA ZHIN DU MI ZHES SOG YANG RANG GI TSE NI DGE YOD RANG GI TSE NI NGAG DGOS KHO ZHES DE LTAR GANG PHAG RANG GI TSE NI... Okay, okay, stop, stop, no, stop. Okay.

Therefore, the path... Okay, I'm going to start from path and go backwards. The path which says that NGO NYID MED...

Yeah, the path of emptiness. The path of nothing has its own nature. Aspirin has nothing in it.

Again, from NGO NYID MED, I mean from NGO NYID YOD, I might just say, I'm very attracted recently to IN. Okay, the path where nothing has anything inside it that makes it itself. And that...

that happens to be the path which has been JES SOGS GZHAGS PAD... Followed. Yeah.

THAMS CAD GZHAGS BZHIN GZHAGS SOGS GZHAGS PAD Followed... By everyone who went there? Has been travelled and followed by.

He uses travelled and... and which they themselves followed others on. Okay.

Now, why the R is here I don't know and I don't like it.

[Speaker 2]
On the pour?

[Speaker 1]
It would be a lot... No, that's another one, that's pour. That's okay, that BOR is okay.

But this one doesn't... it shouldn't be here. I mean you could stretch the sentence to fit it, but it's very artificial.

So, let's check... Not really, because the THAMS CAD has to modify the kyewo. So, check another...

check another tengyur. Due to the kindness of Jeff Wallman, there are many tengyurs available. You can go...

and you should have them anyway. Yeah, you should have like any other tengyur and see what it says here. It could conceivably be the path which to them had to be traveled by everybody, but that's very stretching it, you know.

So, it probably says that path which the people who are Aryas traveled and which led others on. So, I'd read it... I would read the Shakyamuni and Jesus Shakyamuni that way.

The path that they themselves traveled and led others to travel upon. You don't want to just pour it. Pour means the...

it's the verb in Tibetan for throwing out garbage. Yeah, kynipur means can you go out... can you go throw out the garbage?

So, it's a very loaded word, you know, like as if it were garbage, okay? You're gonna pour that Arya path and are you gonna be like those people who... their opinion of the self, okay, is as educated as a person who is mikepa about gyumay pumay.

Yeah, yeah. People who, you know, go crazy over mannequins in a... in a Neiman Marcus display and they keep trying to hit on her.

And she's like... It's exactly that. It's the frustration of a man who's horny and he's...

he's looking at a mannequin in a window and he's going, you know, and she's like... gyumay pumay la. It's exactly that by the way.

They don't understand the illusory woman... the mannequin. And what's wrong with those people?

As if they were people who didn't understand mannequins, they... and then Chandrakirti goes masterfully into the next verse. He says, they are...

and then he slides into Nagarjuna's next verse, because we know that the first two and a half lines are describing... people who have the problem. And then one and a half lines are describing...

Yeah, okay. Which his commentator said. So, he gives you those two and a half lines.

Those guys who... like the guys who fall in love with the mannequin in the mirror... in the window.

Oh, these people imagine... bertak. Where are we?

We're in the middle of Chandrakirti still. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Got it.

Yeah, they imagine that things could start or things could stop with things that had... were produced by causes, okay? Those guys, and that's the end of the two and a half lines.

Those guys shintu... come on, if you went to any DCI program, shintu gupa. Yeah, very, very...

don't understand the workings, the droha, of the khorlo, of dependence, okay? They totally don't understand the Wheel of Dependence, okay? Got it?

I wonder... you know, I was thinking... because we're moving through this text so slowly, because we're struggling with Geltsabje, we're kind of losing the flow of the root text.

And... I just wanted to review it, you know? So, we're talking about people who believe in the girl in the window, in the sense of people who think there's a start and a stop with reference to what?

Do you remember?

[Speaker 2]
Nirvana. To nirvana, yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. And we're trying to demonstrate that there is such a thing as nirvana, but it's not what you thought it was. You don't have to stop your body, you don't have to stop your mind.

So, that's how we got off on startings and stoppings. That's how we got here, okay? And...

the definition of a person who think... who believes in the girl in the window is someone who doesn't understand stopping and starting... starting and stopping, okay?

That's how the window ties to the nirvana, ties to the starting and stopping, okay? That's how those three verses tie together. Okay.

There's a bit more here. It's so sweet. By the way, he just reached our verse.

And I think we should do this little piece here, because it would make a nice appendix, in a way, you know.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, I see, we go a little bit further now.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, and... Cool. And by the way, last class, we were talking about seeing things as illusory, and when you get down into the core of things, there's nothing there.

And that's why Chandrakirti was accused by... the lower schools of saying that at the core, there's nothing, okay? And that was part of their complaint about the concept of deception.

Yeah. So, the whole conversation here is... we go from the girl in the window to the concept of things that are not what they appear to be.

We go from the girl in the window to a discussion of the things that aren't what they appear to be, okay? What's kunzang denpa? We had it in your book.

What's real in the lower school? Something that performs a function? Yeah, something that does something, that's real.

This is real because it holds coffee, okay? So, for them, when we say nothing's real, it's like we're insane. It's like we're saying nothing works, or something like that.

And they say, look, you know, let's say I think it's mango juice, or what do you call, what's that passion fruit? Guava. Guava.

I think it's guava, you know. And then I drink it and I'm like, oh, it's watermelon juice, you know. Then what's the status of the guava juice?

[Speaker 2]
Zero. Disagreeable.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. For them, that's deceptive. Okay, that's deceptive.

Don't go telling me cups are deceptive. Come on, they do what they do from themselves, from the inside. You know?

Try to drink coffee out of a tape recorder if you don't like it. If you think it's not real, then you try to drink coffee out of tape. There is something about this which is real, okay?

And they're accusing us in this section of believing that nothing is real. Which means, according to them, then a tape recorder and a cup should hold coffee the same. Because there's nothing real about the coffee cup.

Okay, got it? What's deceptive for them? The guava juice.

It's not there. It was a lie. It's not there.

It was actually watermelon juice. It was a figment of your imagination. They say, we feel comfortable with calling that deceptive reality, the guava juice.

Because it appeared one way and it turned out another way. We accept that. But to say that the glass is deceptive or your hand is deceptive, it reaches for the glass, come on, it's too much.

Okay, got it? In fact, your Chandrakirti, who is your big hero, said that when you dig in, you think, dig, dig, dig, you find nothing at the end. And this is where he said that.

Okay, got it? Alright, that's the context. I want to keep going.

And I think it would make a sweet appendix, yeah. Because your next verse about the illusory things focuses on this idea of a wheel. And he has a cool thing to say about the wheel.

So, I think we should let him keep talking because it'll give us a deeper appreciation of our own wheel when we hit it in about two minutes. Here we go. And I want to start Ranggitsenike.

Okay. Ranggitsenike. Ranggitsenike.

Keep going. Tenzingjobarjungwe. Corlow, stop there.

Okay. And then you got this, you guys got this idea of something that's stopping from its own side and it's not stopping because my karmic seeds ran out. Okay, that's called self-existent stopping.

My car breaks down not because I didn't give other people enough rides, but it breaks down because the carburetor got clogged. Okay, that's a self-existent stopping. Okay.

And... self-existent starting, you know. We had a child because we conceived a child.

No. You have a child because you served others for so long. Okay.

And the child is produced from that. I'm not to under... state your contribution, but...

No, but what's really going on is you served people and now you have the honor of a... of a child and it's very... it's really good for groups of people, Buddhist groups, to have children running around, right?

The Mexicans are way ahead of us in that. And I haven't done my part, and I apologize. But we're working on it.

Okay, good. Gagpa Yonsi Thakini. Thakini.

Now, that thak was a very loaded word. What? It's a dualizer.

No, 15A first line, right here. Yeah, you're just making it up in your head. Okay, the same verb means to analyze.

But in this context, I'm on 15A first line. Here. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay? You make up stuff like that, three things for $300. You make up stuff like that.

Nah, you mind only... What's wrong with you? Three things.

$300. $200. Anyway, you're never going to get it.

Let's not spend the time. Starting, stopping and mannequins. Yes.

Okay, nobody won the money. I'm just making it clear. So, just shut up.

Okay, tagge denjinder duikorlo. Now, his... Chandrakirti's explanation of why it's a wheel, okay?

Sugeng, I mean, if you want to impress people at your next Surabaya talk about the Wheel of Life. Oh, Nagarjuna also said, with Chandrakirti's help, that the reason we call it a wheel is that... Go ahead, tokma.

Has no beginning and no end. No middle. Yeah, tamatantra.

And this is misspelled big time. Very, very complex misspelling here. Okay.

Okay. But you see, that's why it's a wheel, because there's no place you can... Say it's the beginning or...

But no, wheel number one starts with ignorance. No, but it's more subtle than that. When was the first millisecond of ignorance, please?

You know, it's more subtle than that. Yeah, there's a link number one. Is it the beginning of the wheel?

Well, which part of link one is the beginning of the wheel? Is it the first millisecond of ignorance? How much ignorance do you have to have?

How far do you have to go into the sentence of, this husband is angry because he didn't get enough dinner? Is it the D in dinner? When is it that link one is triggered?

My husband did... or did... Show me the place where...

where ignorance started. Okay. And you can't.

You can't, because it's not coming... The ignorance about your husband coming from himself also doesn't come from himself. And you can't find a place where it starts and therefore it's a...

wheel. There's no place you can point to and say, that was the beginning or that was the beginning. It's not like a line, right?

For a line, you know, Phoenix, Tucson, but a wheel. Chandrakirti is obsessed with the idea that he's talking about the wheel of samsara that you get into when you think there's beginnings and endings because you don't even understand there's no beginning and ending in the wheel. Got it?

[Speaker 2]
Right.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. Where's Mr. Wheel? The wheel exists because you don't understand beginnings and endings.

And because you don't understand beginnings and endings, you get in trouble. But try to understand when what he's saying is geometrically, in geometry, a circle has no beginning. It's the snake of Urubu's circle.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Where is the beginning? It's really amazing. This sentence is amazing.

You got to work on it. You're making up startings and stoppings and that's why you're in a wheel that has no startings and stoppings. That's what he's saying.

Got it? It's very subtle. You're making up starting points and stopping points and that's why you're stuck in a wheel which is defined by its lack of starting and stopping.

That's why it's a wheel and not a line, you know. Oh, here's link one, link two, link three, link four. It's—they don't go in a straight line.

They go in a wheel, right? Okay. That's an amazing sentence if you really dig into it.

Chandrakirti is showing off, okay? Okay. ,,GANG PA'I TSUL KHI THUG CHE GYI GYUR BA'I DANG, ,,GANG PA'I YIN SO THOB PA'I TE,, ,,DANG CHE DOR BA GRO LO THO MA,, This wheel which has no beginning, no middle, no end, which is devoid of such things, okay?

,,CHAL BA,, It has no beginning, no end, no middle. In fact, it's like a gelme korwa for $20. Come on!

Spokeless wheel? $20. Mr. Gibson. Dang, you're getting expensive. I don't know. Tell Yali you can't come next term.

Yeah, the image is of a... We do it when we're kids with sparklers on a dark night. You know.

And that's a famous Buddhist image. What's the other famous Buddhist wheel here? There was a wheel that was used to bring water up to the higher field.

It goes like this, and then the bucket flops over, and then it goes again. And that's a famous image for samsara because it gets banged around a lot. The banging around is important in that wheel.

But this one just means it's an illusion. It's a stick that looks like a wheel. If you go like this fast enough, you say, what's the shape of that stick?

It's a wheel. You say, ha-ha, look, it was a straight stick. I was just moving it a certain way.

Okay, so it's a classic example for an illusion. Geshe Gelme Khorlo. Gelme Khorlo.

So this gel, ngel, has nothing to do with the other ngel, which we just had. Contradictory. What was that gel we had?

Just now, last class, we had a bunch of gels.

[Speaker 2]
Contradictory to the Lama's wishes.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, right, you shouldn't gel at your Lama's commands. Don't go against your Lama's wishes. MED KHORWA THABU DRO BA SBYUPA SHIN TU MI SHES SHIN TU MI SHES Who?

Yeah, those guys who think there's a beginning and an end. Okay? Who believe in...

[Speaker 2]
Girls in windows.

[Speaker 1]
Who are chasing girls in windows. They're showing off to the girl in the window. Okay?

Okay, got it? By the way, because two and a half. Because two and a half lines, right?

All right. DUD CHE Let's read some more. DUD CHE RANG BZHIN YOD PA SKYE ZHING GCIG MI SRID PAR LA SKYE BA THAM GCIG PAR RTOG PA'I DE DAG GYIS RTEN CING RGYUR PAR DBYUNG BA'I KHOR LO GONG DU CHUD CHE BYA'O DUD CHE RANG BZHIN YOD PA SKYE ZHING GCIG PAR MI SRID If a DUD CHE was SKYE, if a DUD CHE, if a thing which existed in and of itself, then it couldn't start and it would be impossible, MI SRID, for it to start and stop.

Therefore, such starting and such stopping is simply RTOG PA'I without the S. It's your imagination. You get in trouble when it's past tensilized with B-R-T-A-G-S and it looks so much like some other word.

Here's the root word, which is clearly fantasy of your imagination and not analysis, okay? Got it? The words are very similar.

RTOG PA'I DE DAG GYIS RTEN CING RGYUR PAR DBYUNG BA'I KHOR LO GONG DU CHUD CHE BYA'O People who get that, they understand the wheel. GONG DU CHUD means they really get it, the wheel. If they understand that starting and stopping are not possible in the way we normally think, okay?

Okay, we're almost there. Keep going. RANG GI TSE NI RANG GI TSE NI THUG KHE BA KHE LANG NA CHI CHE RTEN CING RGYUR PAR DBYUNG BA'I KHOR LO GONG DU CHUD CHE BYA'O YIN ZHES ZHER BA KHE LA Now, anybody want to take a shot?

You can read it, I think. You guys can read it if you try. Start with a NA.

If we accept that starting can come from its own side, then, why do dependence... Why do you say that if we accept that, we GONG DU CHUD PA MA YIN? We don't understand dependence.

Yeah, the meaning of dependence. Yeah, why do you say that? Yeah, why do you say that if we agree that things can start, we don't understand the wheel?

Why do you say that? The other guy says. Why do you say that?

It's cute, so let's do it. It's probably the next verse of Nagarjuna. Okay.

DE DANG THEG TEN GANG BYUNG BA RANG BZHIN DU NI DE MA RGYAS It is RANG BZHIN DU NI GANG MA RGYAS THEG NI KHE ZHES JI KHE BYA'O What's it mean? DE DANG THEG TEN GANG BYUNG BA Whatever... whatever arises in dependence?

Yeah, good. Anything that happens in dependence upon your mental state pictures. RANG BZHIN DU NI It does not start from its own side.

[Speaker 2]
Good.

[Speaker 1]
Whatever doesn't start from its own side. Yeah. We gotta say it doesn't...

THEG NI KHE ZHES JI KHE BYA'O We can say it starts? Yep. Cool.

So, what starts? Well, things that don't start. He's being cute, which is very Nagarjuna.

I bet he was really... mischievous. Things that don't start, start.

That's all he says. It's things that don't start that start. When you realize that they don't start, you understood how they start.

Okay, that's all. Alright. Last sentence.

DE DANG DE DENG I'm missing... No, we just did that. DE DANG DE DENG GANG BYUNG BA Oh, I'm sorry.

Okay. By the way, this sentence was written by Chandrakirti on Nagarjuna for Sugeng. This sentence was written by Chandrakirti on Nagarjuna for Sugeng.

And what he says is, when I say that something, but then, what I mean is, de. Got it? Yeah.

When I say dependent, what I mean is reliance. And that's the short definition of dependent origination. Okay.

So, here's Chandrakirti for Sugeng, still trying to get that LTOS into his brain cells. I think you got it. Okay.

Okay. It's a wrap. Okay, we finished Chandrakirti's detour.

Why did we go to Chandrakirti's detour? No.

[Speaker 2]
No, that's not true.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. And saying... and digging that all you'll find is illusion.

Yeah. Is it true? Yeah.

Yeah, they're just kind of... They're summing it up and... It is true, he did say that.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. Okay, got it? SONG SONG DE RGYUD MA In the end, all you get to is an illusion.

Okay. Why are we talking about that? We're talking about the idea of deception.

We're on the subject of deception. What do they think is deception? What do we think is deception?

And they're accusing us of thinking that how many things are deceiving us? All. All, okay.

And they think that's a bad thing. Yeah. And we think that's a...

[Speaker 2]
That's the truth.

[Speaker 1]
Good. So, their complaint is kind of deserved. What?

You're the guys who say you dig, dig, and there's nothing there. Yep. Yeah.

That's... Okay, got it? They think it's a criticism.

We think it's... Wow, thank you. Now, you may notice I made a few notes.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
This is how hard his text is. And half these notes are wrong. Oh, no.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
I mean, they're just... struggling and then... then I wipe them out and I figure it out.

But anyway, they're to remind me of ideas I had. Okay. So, let's stick to the capital letters.

Please read. Let's stop there. Let's stop there.

Just cause it's painful to keep going. GZHAG ZHIG TU So, Chandrakirti said that kind of stuff. Uh-huh.

Now, who's talking here? Oh, no, this is the lower school.

[Speaker 2]
Look, here's the shena.

[Speaker 1]
Uh-huh, Mr. One-Mouth. This is a three-paragraph whining. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Accusation. And... And until you read a whole page, you don't realize it's the other guy talking.

It's... all this accusation is the other guy talking. And we struggled...

uh... one day when I think Heather was here some, and I... Before that, yeah.

Yeah, and I was trying to make it fit into the... our system, and I didn't notice the... The shena.

Yeah. Now we...now we know it's him talking crazy. Okay, here we go.

GZHAG ZHIG TU DRAG TZAM ZHIG LU Well, you guys got this Chandrakirti who says if you dig, dig, dig, you get a gyuma. You just get an illusion. And you got some other guys who say dig, dig, dig, and you reach the term.

The name. You say... MING DEY DRAG TZAM Exists in name only.

So, don't forget DRAG means same thing in Sanskrit. Okay? Shabda.

So, I said, yeah. Some of you guys... your big guy says dig, dig, and you reach...

an illusion. And some of you guys say... dig, dig, dig, and all that's left is the name.

Things exist in name only. Okay? You know, Shesumbe.

Therefore, DRAG TZAM RTAG PA TZAM GYIS KUN RDZO You guys don't understand that a thing which is deceptive in the sense that it's just called that guava juice, when there's no guava juice to do with it. You guys who don't understand KUN RDZO Deception. You're the guys who don't understand conception.

Deception, sorry. You understand conception. DRAG TZAM RTAG PA TZAM GYIS KUN RDZO NI And you guys fail to deny that things are deceptive because they exist in name only.

You say they're real. I'll say it again. You fail to deny deception in the form of existing by names only.

In fact, you support it. You believe there's a reality where things exist through mental picture. And you don't know enough to call that deception.

You call it KUN RDZO DEMPA You use the word reality which is deceptive. You know, you guys are crazy. Okay?

That's him talking to us. Yeah. Some of you guys think when you dig, dig, dig you reach illusion.

Some of you guys think when you dig, dig, dig you get to... Name only. Name only.

Then you've got some kind of deceptive thing going on which is just called garbage juice and you call it reality. No, reality. You use the word reality for it.

You say, although it only exists in names, it's real. It only exists as a product of my karmic pictures, but it's still real. In fact, that's why it's real.

You guys are really crazy. Got it? Reality.

Okay.

[Speaker 2]
KUN RDZO. I didn't say reality here, right? Are you referring to the one I said above?

[Speaker 1]
KANG RGYUD YANG You don't even... You don't deny it in any way. You shamelessly support the idea that a thing can be deceptive just because it's called in a certain name.

And then, according to you, everything has to be deceptive. You don't have enough sense to deny that. In fact, you KLANG.

You accept it as reality, because you talk about KUN RDZO DENG PA You talk about deceptive reality. You say cars work. You say husbands meow, even though they're not real.

What's wrong with you guys? We got the right idea. Guava juice is not watermelon juice.

The guava juice was deceptive. Don't call it reality. It was never there.

And he's always referring back to when you said KUN RDZO DENG PA earlier, right? Yeah, because we started this section with a very irrational, normal presentation of deceptive reality. And then suddenly he did his guilt subject thing.

Okay? We thought we were out. I was congratulating myself at home.

I was like, oh, you made it through guilt subject, and then he came back again with this weird stuff. Yeah, but they're really deceptive. Yeah.

Yeah, they have a problem with that. And we're going to have an example, and it will be more clear. Here comes the example.

Okay? And you're going to... there's a money-making opportunity here.

I'm just telling you. And I just want you to do four syllables. Yeah, say, CANG DE DA DA Wait, wait, wait.

That's not the question. That's too easy. Hang on.

I mean, there's big money here. A hundred bucks. For a hundred bucks, explain correctly and clearly, okay?

Why? Why the next sentence should start with these four words? For a hundred bucks.

And it has to exactly match what I'm thinking. Let's struggle through the words. Don't forget, you're supposed to tell me why the next sentence should start with these four words.

[Speaker 2]
The one that does start with these four words?

[Speaker 1]
Well, it is the next sentence.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Actually, the answer is there. Don't look at the answer. Nah, it's too late.

You already looked at the answer. I mean, it's always without getting the money. Yeah, without getting the money.

[Speaker 2]
Let's make it clear.

[Speaker 1]
The answer is just that they're a good example of something that would exist really because they do perform a function, but they're an example of something that we say doesn't exist really because they're deceptive objects, because they're completely mistaken. Yeah. These are the four big boo-boos of history.

These are the four biggest mistakes you can make. They're the hundred percent wrong, jacked-back-ass words, mistakes, right? We had them before.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Tsang de dak dak. Explain.

Purity, happiness, permanence, and a self. Yeah, anyone who thinks there's anything clean about this life or happy, even the slightest bit about this life or who thinks anything about this life is going to last for any amount of time or thinks anything in this life is coming from its own side, they are insane. And it's all of us.

Okay? These are the classic illusions, right? So, there's a great...

if you're talking about... if you're on the subject of...

[Speaker 2]
Deception.

[Speaker 1]
Deception. These are four... these are the four biggest lies that life is telling you.

You know, just make enough money, you'll be comfortable, you know? Just... you know, things aren't all bad, you know, we do have a Dharma group, people are pretty pure, you know?

And, you know, watching Netflix when you're tired and... if the movie is a good movie, that's some happiness, it is some happiness, okay? You know like that?

Those are all lies, okay? It's just suffering in another package. Okay?

So, these are all examples of kundzo, they are not what they appear to be. So, that's a perfect place for... I don't care who's talking, it's a good thing to mention when you're talking about deception.

Somebody's lying to us. Life is lying to us, okay? Okay.

And I'll give you another one. Ngupo Rangtsenpa. And I take it to be a fire...

which is hot.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, good.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, and I'm going to make that note to myself. We're technically out of time. Oh man, fire which is hot.

Fire which is hot. Okay. I got to show off, I don't know why.

Let's do one more sentence. This incredible miscarming. And look at it.

This says, the guy got hit in the head by the view. And what it means is, people who don't understand correct view. And you have to...

everything's misspelled here. The whole line is miss... everything in the line is misspelled.

Okay. And I went and checked it.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, and it's...

[Speaker 1]
You're right, yeah. Yeah, which now it means, people who don't understand... correct view.

Okay, people who don't understand correct view. And... ,GZHAG ZHIG ZHUGS PA'I THABS SU, in order to get them...

to attract them, ,GZHAN NGO KHO NA KHYER LAM PA, we accept it... we accept deception only with regard to other people's perceptions. And that's an experimental translation.

I think what he's saying is, if there's a glass of red juice here and he drinks it and says, ,GZHAG ZHIG ZHUGS PA'I THABS SU, that's watermelon juice. And I think it's mango... what do you call?

No, guava juice. Then...he...he... when he said...

he's the smoke alarm for deception. Deception depends on another person seeing it correctly. Who comes and tells you, ,GZHAN NGO KHYER LAM PA, Oh, it's Geshe-la.

I tasted it. It's just watermelon juice. I...I believe...

I'm taking it, we accept it only with regard to other's perceptions. MA LTOGS RNAM PA KUN TU DKA' PA'I PHYIR And, you know, we got to work on it. We got to work on it.

Now, now, let's do an easy part, to feel better about ourselves. In case Mun Khe comes out, dad will be in a good mood. Here it is.

Okay, just for dad, just for dad, in front of your dear wife and your child, 300 bucks for a correct translation of these two lines. RANG LUD LAR KUN TSOR TZAM YOD Yeah, and I'll give you a clue. Okay.

The other guy says, quote, RANG LUD LAR In our system. Good. That's about 100 bucks.

KUN TSOR TZAM YOD RANG KUN TSOR TZAM PA MED Okay, KUN TSOR TZAM. In our system, what is only deceptive, even what's only deceptive... No, simple KUN TSOR.

Oh, hold on. Yes. There is simple deceptive.

Yeah, there's Guava Juice. But... But...

There's KUN TSOR TZAM PA MED, there's no deceptive reality. Good. 300 bucks for him.

But... But it goes to the college fund. From Munker, okay?

Hopefully, college will be free by then.

[Speaker 2]
What's... This is...

[Speaker 1]
This is the wrap-up. This is... Finally, the guy puts his cards out on the table.

This is where he puts his cards on the table. Says, Look, we also... we also agree that some things fool you, but don't go calling it reality.

Don't call it deceptive reality. You guys have a problem. This is where you were getting it before, when you were doing the speech.

Got it? That's the end of the question. Three-page question.

Okay? And the basic thing is, the guy says, Look, we're not like Chandrakirti and you guys. You dig to the core of things, there's nothing there.

We... Look, we're more intelligent than that. We agree some things fool you, but we don't agree that you could say, reality, deceptive reality.

Come on, get off it. There's some good things. There's some real things.

Don't call everything fake. Those four are fake. For any Buddhist, those four are fake.

That's fake, but it's not all reality. Okay? Don't say all reality.

The four ideas that things are going to last, that things can have some happiness, that things are somehow pure on a certain level. Those are fake. We all agree those are fake.

But, those are just little tiny part. Don't call the whole thing fake reality. What are you talking about fake real, fake reality?

Come on. That's all. And that's the end of his statement.

[Speaker 2]
How can you debate him when he states our position so clearly?

[Speaker 1]
Let's ask Giltee next time. By the way, he starts out with, that's not at all true. Yeah, no.

They accept that things can be, that things, there exist, thing, there just exist category of things which are fake, like those four impressions. But, to use the word fake reality, or to posit a whole reality which is fake, come on.

[Speaker 2]
I'm just saying there's no Buddhist school that doesn't, that doesn't, that doesn't assert a fake level of reality. I mean, they all say that.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, they don't, they're uncomfortable with the word reality used with deceptive, sorry, not conceptive. So, they do agree then, I guess we're going to have to revise this part.

Tsang de tak tak tak. They do, they would call this deceptive as well.

[Speaker 2]
I'm not sure.

[Speaker 1]
That's what's going to be hard to clarify.

[Speaker 2]
I'm not sure.

[Speaker 1]
It seems like they share with them, but they're calling them working theories. Yeah, no. I had a theory, and I had lots of theories during this, and most of them are wrong probably, that he might be a middle way guy.

Some kind of middle way guy.

[Speaker 2]
Mr. One-Mouth?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. I'm trying to figure out who is this guy. And, we got to talk about it.

Maybe he's a lower middle way? Ke wa di khe om kum sum nam gye she tsok tsok shing sum nam gye she le jung we dang pa ku ni dang pa shong Shogidoki. Shogidoki.

Thank you, Geshe-la. Wow. Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
Thank you, later.

[Speaker 1]
That's cool. We'll figure it out. We're, you know, Buddhist scriptures are deep, and don't expect to always understand it the first time, even me.

And, if they were easy to read, they wouldn't be deep. Okay?

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
So, don't worry about it. Don't think you have to understand it the first time.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. This one's going to be a struggle.

[Speaker 1]
This one's going to be a struggle. You always keep hoping with this stuff that something later is going to clarify it. Yeah, exactly.

But you keep going. Then it's like, end of book, and you're like... Yeah.

Yeah. Last term, or whatever transition you did for last term, was actually somewhat intelligible. It tied up again.