Классика Алмазного огранщика: Верхний Срединный путь — Великие книги мудрости, занятие 50

[Speaker 1]
Quiz time. We didn't do much, so I did borrow something from the previous class, but it's useful.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Give the four ass-backwards thoughts in English. And they really are, okay? I'm not just being cute.

Sometimes I am just being cute. But these four are completely wrong. They're not just, you can't call them wrong ideas.

You have to call them complete opposite of what they really are.

[Speaker 2]
Thinking of what is pure, thinking of what is completely pure is pure. Things are often, things are happy, things are pure, things have self. Good, that's all four.

[Speaker 1]
Pure, happy. Han, Pui. Oh, first give me the name of the four S backwards in Tibetan.

Song.

[Speaker 2]
No, no, no, no, I mean, yeah, chinchilla, four. And then each, all four.

[Speaker 1]
So you were starting with, say it again. Tom. Day.

Top. And bottom. Yeah.

That's four. Okay, I had to change this question just after one of the last classes this morning. We're in the middle of a discussion about the meaning of, what are we being told by, we don't know who, is not the meaning of deceptive.

We're being told by someone who might be catchy. It didn't seem like it was catchy. Who he is, it's going to be difficult.

What he says is impossible, who he is is difficult.

[Speaker 2]
What is not the meaning of deceptive? That's part of what they're discussing, but then he's a little bit more specific. Like in discussing it doesn't mean that something doesn't exist.

[Speaker 1]
He's like, and it's definitely not, it's the one paragraph we covered last time, right? A temporarily diluted, temporarily diluted state of mind. Stop being drunk or something.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
He's saying that's not what we're talking about when we say deceptive. When we say deceptive we don't mean something that's just mistaken in that way. Tibetan for diluted state of mind?

No. I mean that's also a word that means a thing.

[Speaker 2]
True.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, who said it?

[Speaker 2]
True. True, no. True, no.

That's another word I can't think of.

[Speaker 1]
Maybe five hours a day of watching, of studying Tibetan.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Starting to sink in. It does do that, by the way. It starts to accelerate.

So you guys, it'll be exponential. Your learning will be exponential. You'll learn much more in the 10th term than you did in the first five terms.

Oh, yeah. Last one. Oh, oops.

How would Master Chandrakirti say that we should think about the?

[Speaker 2]
It's bleak. It's technically bleak. Oh, my God.

Oh, oh, oh.

[Speaker 1]
See? See? I don't know.

Ah, that ruined it. I wanted word to struggle with it for a while back.

[Speaker 2]
It's got to be something. Mostly what we did for next class. Yeah, mostly.

[Speaker 1]
That's nice. Yeah, it's a special suffering of people who own restaurants. It's called health inspector.

Do you have in Mexico? You have, right? So you have health inspectors who hassle you?

You don't have?

[Speaker 2]
Not for me.

[Speaker 1]
I'm moving to Guadalajara.

[Speaker 2]
As long as you have enough money to pay them, you're fine. Is that the health inspector?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, yeah. He's the crumbs inspector. For restaurants, yes.

[Speaker 2]
For health inspector.

[Speaker 1]
Mmm. That's what I'm doing. I'm trying to convince the county I have a cafe and not a restaurant.

They say, what are you serving? I'm like, well, okay. Okay, we ready?

[Speaker 2]
He's so handsome. You were bragging about his eyes, so I wanted to show them.

[Speaker 1]
His eyes are amazing.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, buddy.

[Speaker 1]
Now, if Mooncake has eyes like that, you're going to be fighting off the boy. The next what? Is that what you want?

Oh. Okay, now, it's time for a big Lama confession, which I don't do enough, but it will get depressing. Okay, we had this long section we struggled through last time, and we couldn't figure out what it meant, and it went on and on for many lines.

It had quotations from Chandrakirti in it. It had a footnote that was as long as your intestines. And then it went for another paragraph.

And these are how many notes I have for each word. Okay, this is how difficult this thing is. And then it says, which we didn't realize.

Yeah, suppose the other guy comes and says. We were struggling to make it correct, but three paragraphs later, it's a suppose someone says. Okay, alright?

So, I confess I missed it, and I struggled to both impress my cafe manager, and still satisfy Nick. And I did the first one. Okay, anyway, so let's go back.

We got to go back like a couple of schmucks, and figure out what the heck the other guy said, okay? Yeah, we don't have a choice. And I still don't understand it.

But I'm going to tell you pieces. Let's just go through pieces. Let's admit in a healthy way we don't really understand it, and let's get the pieces right, and then maybe in a couple more terms.

I mean, you just got to try, then go on. You can't fixate about it. And when you get to it in a month, it'll be very clear, and you'll say, I don't know why I didn't understand it.

But you have to attack it, do your best, and then go on, and don't stop, okay? And then come back to it later. Okay, so here we go.

That's a translation skill, a big translation skill. Don't get hung up on what you don't understand, just keep going, and make it worse. Okay, khanda...

those people, khanda de, those guys who believe that it's the same thing whether something exists or doesn't exist deceptively. Those guys who believe it's exactly the same thing whether something exists deceptively or not. Okay, now...

my new gag ja nowadays is not the husband in the kitchen, I moved on from the husband in the kitchen. Now I do the... yeah, the birthday present on Amazon.

And you know, the wife comes home, and you know, if it's ever happened to you, it's very uncomfortable. You know, the wife is sitting there, and she's got this huge smile on her face, more than she ever smiles at you. No, let's say the husband, and he's like this, and he's like...

and then you come in, and he goes... like this, you know, and then immediately you feel bad, you know, like, who were you texting? And they're like, nobody.

That's the worst answer you can give to a jealous wife or husband, you know, oh, nobody. Well, what's about the big smile? Like, you want to be cool, but you want to know what the hell's going on.

So, it's a difficult balance, you know? You're like, well, is it an old friend or something? And they're like, no, don't worry about it, I made a nice dinner.

And when they change the subject, you get really nervous, you know? So, anyway, let's say that your husband's like this, and you came in, and then he's like this, and you're like, what's that? And he's like, oh nothing, what's for dinner?

You know? And then, you feel bad, right? And you start ...

the mind starts creating an image, you know? The mind, the jealous mind starts creating an image of a ... of the woman who's everything you are not.

You know? Whatever isn't a ... movie star about you, she has.

So, you know, she's ... has this hair, you know, your brow hair, she's blonde hair, suddenly it's a blonde hair woman. The girlfriend is a blonde hair, and she has a big chest, and not like your ...

you know, you make a story in your mind, okay? About this woman, and you have a pretty good painting finished by the time, and ... to go to bed.

You know? Then you all go to bed. He sleeps right away, because men don't care.

And you can't sleep for three, four hours. And finally you wake up, you get up, and you go over to the side of the bed, and although you swore you would never do it, you get into his phone to see who it was, and ... he was ordering a present for you, a birthday present for you on Amazon.

And that's why he was ... I found it, you know? Now I got this thing.

And then ... the question is, what happens to the image of the woman in your mind? And I like to say ...

you know ... it just disappears in a second. In a ...

you know like ... and then it's gone forever, okay? That's my example for the illusory woman.

Okay? In the text, in the last verse, he fell in love with a mannequin. He went to the mall in Shenzhen, he fell in love with this lady behind the glass, who strangely doesn't move much.

And then he went to hug her, and it turned out to be a plastic girl with a miniskirt on. Okay, got it? Like you fell in love with a ...

it was all fake. And then suddenly that desire, you know ... you're like, this is not going to work out.

The whole thing collapses, okay? So, that was the example in the ... in the scripture.

Nagarjuna used that lady as an example. So, I'm just updating the lady. Okay?

Gyaltsen ... no, Nagarjuna used it. Yeah.

Yeah, go check. Okay, by the way, if you want to ... yeah, that's going to be a long thing.

I think it's verse 17. So, we'll look for 17.

[Speaker 2]
No, the ...

[Speaker 1]
I think it's 17. Maybe it's 18. Maybe it's 16.

Oops. It might be Gyaltsen Jay. We got to put the ending ...

Dang, we're close. Maybe it is ... maybe the girl ...

what's it called? Pumo. It's called Pumo.

Pume, maybe. Yeah, here it is. Yeah, anyway, Pume La Chakpa.

No, that's a different one. Uh ... Here it is, Gyumay Pume.

Okay? An illusory woman. Okay.

Yeah, that's all the ... that's the only one. Anyway, I don't remember.

Let's go back to this thing we also don't know about. Here it is, okay? Anyway, what I'm trying to say is ...

in the middle way school, is that the meaning of illusory ... of deceptive? The mannequin is not the meaning of deceptive.

A real woman walking down the mall while you're staring at the girl in behind the glass is also ... just as deceptive. Okay?

So, we don't need plastic girls. We have real girls who are unreal. Okay, got it?

So ... so, there are schools who say ... I don't care what level you're talking about, it's all deceptive.

Okay? That the lady walking down the mall is as deceptive as the plastic girl. Okay?

That's all. Don't talk to ... Gyumay.

Okay? I don't care whether she exists or not, they're all deceptive. Who says that?

Who says that? Nagarjuna says that. Okay?

So, now you get the feeling he's criticizing that view. Okay? And by the way, the punchline at the end is don't tell me about kun dzok denpa.

Don't call it deceptive. Reality ... there's no reality according to you.

What the ... what the ... what ...

what do you mean deceptive? Reality. You know?

What, the girl ... the plastic girl is real? You know?

Don't put the word reality on deceptive. I object. We don't know who's the kachig.

Yeah, the other guy says ... I'll show you okay? Let's go to it.

Ten pages later. I agree, there's kun dzok, plain old kun dzok. I agree there's plastic ladies, but don't give me this kun dzok denpa.

MED. MED means ... I don't accept that.

You want to talk about things that aren't what they seem, which is the definition right? You want to talk about things that aren't what they seem? Okay?

I can accept that, but don't call it reality. What? The blonde in the wife's mind when the husband went like this.

Don't call that reality. Okay? Got it?

Okay? I can accept that the blonde hair is not real, and she's dyeing it. That's real kun dzok.

Okay? Like, don't go making distinctions between real fake and fake fake. Okay?

Got it? Or actually, the other guy wants to make a distinction between real fakes and fake fakes. Rope snakes are not real.

Ropes are real. Don't go calling them both deceptive reality. Okay?

Snakes that are really ropes, and ropes that are ropes, according to the highest viewpoint, are both deceptive, are both fake. He says, that's bad. The rope is real.

The snake is not real. We make that distinction. You don't.

You say kun dzok denpa. You know? Fake...

reality. Come on man. You can't put those two words in the same place.

Fake reality. Give me a break. I can take it that something could be fake.

The snake. But don't tell me the rope is fake. Okay?

Because highest middle way says, it is fake. It is fake. What was that?

In the texting example, they're kind of talking about a fake fake. The imagination of the... of the girlfriend, who's not there, is a fake fake.

I don't know, but if you... Well, that's a real fake for them. Okay?

Sorry, no, that's a fake fake for them. That's a misperception of a deceptive object. Okay?

So, they want to divide between... We... we want to say there's fake fakes and real fakes, and they're all fake reality.

And they have a problem with that. They're like... She's still fake.

Yeah. And I said because she's dying her hair, but that's just a joke. Okay.

[Speaker 2]
Not only the fake fake, but the husband.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, the husband's also fake, and the cell phone's also fake. And Amazon's fake, but we knew that. Okay.

Okay. So, here's the... here's the...

RANG LUGS LA. Who's talking?

[Speaker 2]
The kachis.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah! Here's the shena. We skipped to the end.

Okay? We skipped to the end. It's going to help us, supposedly, through the rest, which is very difficult.

So, is kachi sarcastically saying RANG LUGS? No, he's saying in our system... Yeah, in our system...

Yeah, you can talk about robes that look like snakes. KUN RDZOGS YOD. Simple deception.

We accept it, but don't go calling it KUN RDZOGS DEN PA. MED DO. No such thing.

Don't call it fake reality. There's no such thing. We have the best system.

Our own system is best. We accept simple deception, but we don't accept deceptive truth, or deceptive reality. Why the hell you're calling it reality or truth if it's not what it seems?

How can you do that? Okay? How can you do that?

By the way, there's an important principle in the higher school's treatment of deceptive reality, which you should know, okay? There's an important principle in the higher school's treatment of what's deceptive reality, okay? And that's that, the deceptive in deceptive reality is defined to a deceived state of mind.

It's the state of mind that makes it deceptive reality, and not the thing out there, because a Buddha don't see it that way. It doesn't deceive a Buddha, okay? Is the wife looking at the husband using the cell phone, and is the cell phone deceptive reality in the higher school?

No, it is deceptive reality. The phone and the wife, okay? They are deceptive reality.

But why? Because they are misperceived by a normal person, okay? Not because they are themselves deceptive, because they're not.

It's just you have a bug in your eye. Don't blame the thing, okay? So, in the higher school, deceptive reality is defined to a deceived state of mind, to a drunk, to a crazy person, to a person who didn't study Madhyamika.

Okay, got it? Which are all the same. Alright, now, so, the only part of this argument that I'm clear about is the last sentence, so we went there first.

Okay? And the other guy says, in my system, it's true things can fool you, ropes in the dust can fool you, but I wouldn't refer to those as reality, deceptive reality. I don't know why you ...

By the way, the whole discussion started out with a fairly normal presentation of the two realities, and then suddenly he did his guilt subject thing. You know, we were so complacent. Yeah, we thought, now he's coming into his own, you know?

Now he's ... now it reads like any other commentary in the world, but he refused to stay there. I'll show you where the discomfort starts.

Okay? Here. Divide the reality into two, deceptive and ultimate.

The fake reality has real fake reality and fake fake reality. And the real real real fake reality is anything you can see with the four types of perception which we talked about before. And certain objects can be ...

And when your eye's got a bug in it, you're not going to see everything correctly. And an elephant that has blood and flesh is real, and an elephant that you imagine in your mind is in a dream, is not real. We thought he was getting normal.

Then he throws in this thing, okay? We were hoping he would be a normal guy, but he refuses. Okay, so, ,GANG DAG DE DAG KUN SROG TU YOD MED GSUM PA SGRUB PA NI, He's attacking someone who believes that things are fake, whether they're real fake or fake fake, don't matter.

The lady you were imagining in your mind and the cell phone have the same reality. Yeah, and doesn't it sound pretty good? You telling me the phone and the lady that you were imagining that wasn't there are the same?

And we say, yes, they're both not real. They're both deceptive. Okay, so let's start with that.

He's uncomfortable with that, he's attacking us. Oh, so you're saying deceptive things that don't exist, like the ... the big blonde and the phone itself have the same reality?

And we say, No, he don't want to use it, which is YOD PA here, okay? You talking about real ... you know, things ...

because we say KUN SROG LDAN PA YOD exists. Things are not what you thought, but they're still real and you can still drive a car even if it's coming out of your mental seeds. It still has some reality.

You can still drive it. In fact, you're not even allowed to say still in the high, high, high schools. It ...

it drives because it's coming out of your mind, okay? That's very subtle, okay? Okay, here we go, here's this next ...

so we got the first statement, here's the second statement, CHUNG NGO KHO NA YOD PA KUN SROG TU YOD PA'I DON DU BSAM We think that when you say something is deceptive, it only means deceptive to a certain state of mind, which is kind of what the higher school says also, okay? When you say something is not what it seems, you're talking about to a certain person, okay? Like who just took a drug or who just smoked marijuana or ...

you know, okay? Okay, so ... so you say things are deceptive when they are perceived by a deceived state of mind, all states of mind of normal people who are not arhats, okay?

Especially not arhats, especially not arhats, okay? Then, GZHAN LOR KHO NA'I KHYAD LEN DGOS PA'I KUN SROG But there's also a fake which is dependent on who's looking, okay? Like the guy who dressed the mannequin and the guy who's walking past fast in the dusk, okay?

The guy who dressed the mannequin doesn't have this excitement, okay? GZHAN LOR KHO NA'I So, I call it subject-full dependency, okay? Who got fooled.

If someone could get fooled, it's deceptive reality. That's high school, okay? I'm just doing pieces, okay?

I'm not claiming that I understand it.

[Speaker 2]
Now...

[Speaker 1]
When he says it next? Yeah, you can say that. You can say that they are...

Yeah, I believe. We'll have to come back to it when our mind is more mature. No, seriously.

RANG LUGS LA Sorry. Yeah. RANG LUGS LA in our own system, SKYE LEN PA'I KUN RDZOG A situational KUN RDZOG, depending on what other people are seeing, there's people around who see that it's a mannequin.

He keeps saying GZHAN here. He's going to say GZHAN. The guy who dressed her.

Yeah, the magician. He understands. He sees it for something else, okay?

When there's a discrepancy, it's KUN RDZOG. The way it looks and the way it... is are different, okay?

So, now, you guys have a problem. You guys who? You Nargajunians have a problem.

You have failed to distinguish between these two things, real fake and fake fake. Okay? The phone is not deceptive reality.

The image in the wife's mind is deceptive, okay? But the phone, don't call the phone deceptive. The phone is a phone, it looks like a phone.

Okay? Everybody who looks at it who's not drunk or crazy will see a phone. Someone under the...

under extreme emotional stress will see something that's not there. Okay? Got it?

Difference. There's a difference. You're saying there's a kind of deception which is universal among non-Aryas.

And we're saying, no, deception depends on whether or not you're the person who dressed the mannequin or you're the magician who made the image. Okay? Got it?

Yeah, he says there's a difference. Yeah. Yeah, and you have a problem.

SKYER PA MA BYAS You didn't... you... apparently you have some problem.

You think the phone is as fake as the imagination of the... of the imagined girlfriend. Okay?

The two gaksha. Okay? And that's not the case.

The phone is pretty real. Okay? The imagination is not real.

Got it? I mean, I'm just giving you pieces. We're on the subject of fake ladies.

Okay? RGYUD MED RGYUD MED PHU MED Say it, RGYUD MED. RGYUD MED PHU MED And a scriptural word for woman is PHU MED.

Okay? And RGYUD MA means illusion, Amara, illusion. Okay?

In whose school? Oh, in anybody's school. Yeah.

Yeah, okay. Now, please read. ...

Yeah, now, we are still in country, I think. Okay? And he says, uh, the fact that you're failing to make a distinction is reflected in the words of your hero, who's drunk.

Okay? I think he's criticizing Chandrakirti. Okay?

Okay? The fact that you, what? Khyapa Machik.

You have failed to make distinctions that we make. You say the imaginary lady's... I'm sorry, you say the phone is as fake as the imaginary lady, but we make finer distinctions, the imaginary lady is fake, the phone is not fake.

And you, you guys seem to be incapable of understanding the difference. For example, the proof that that's true, de tar yinpar, as proof that that's true, let's take your good old Chandrakirti, Dawa Thakpa, okay? Because he says, if you keep digging and digging and digging, all you got left at the end is an illusion.

Okay? SONG SONG SONG means digging, digging, digging. LUS PA here is a verb, all you have left, okay?

It doesn't mean body here, as a verb it means all that's left, is nothing but an illusion. Chandrakirti says, strip away the appearance, what you have at the end is nothing more, some, than an illusion, okay? So, your hero, your shining knight, called Chandrakirti, who's the main guy in you Prasangika guys, he's the one who said, every object, including the phone, if you dig to the middle, it's as illusory as the imagined girlfriend.

Got it? And in this case, it's a criticism of us, got it? Okay?

You guys seem to have some problem dividing between fake things and real things, okay? The phone is real, it is the way it appears, the girlfriend in the wise mind is unreal, it doesn't exist the way it appears, and I'll prove it to you that you can't make the distinction. Your main guy says that, you take a phone and you dig, dig, dig into it, what you find at the end is nothing.

Got it? I think he's criticizing us. Yeah, and when...

and when... when we saw Chandrakirti quoted, we thought, rung lung, this must be us talking, because we're quoting Chandrakirti, you know? But I...

my new theory, which I believe is correct, is that they're saying, I'll prove to you, you guys can't make the necessary distinctions. Your main guy himself says, when you song, song, song, dig, dig, dig, you're gonna find gyuma at the bottom. Even what's at the core is nothing, of a phone.

Got it? Okay, got it? Yay!

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Now, the problem is Chandrakirti never said that. Yeah, but... between the fake lady verse and this verse, Chandrakirti does discuss that, in...

because he wrote a commentary to this text. Okay? And...

and I went and got you a piece, which is, you know, sort of about the mannequin, alright? You want to go through it? I think you could add it to a footnote, okay?

And if it were me, if I were writing the footnote, I'd say, look, they are putting words into Chandrakirti's mouth, but isn't that what we would expect? You see what I mean? They should be misquoting Chandrakirti, okay?

They... they didn't choose a real quotation from Chandrakirti, they chose one that made them look good. Got it?

They... so, in my opinion, they put words in his mouth. Okay, here we go.

So, here's Chand... we're picking up Chandrakirti's commentary just before we reach the verse we're on, okay? He said...

by the way, the last few words of his commentary down here are the beginning of our lines, okay? Yeah, no? They're saying, your own guy proves that you can't make distinctions, because your own guy says, if you dig into the cell phone, at the end all you find that's left is an illusion.

Yeah, they want to say the cell phone's different from the lady imagined. They want to say it's different, and they're accusing us of saying they have the same reality. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Therefore, according to you, there's nothing real.

[Speaker 2]
Probably. No.

[Speaker 1]
No, we would say metaphorically the reality of the mannequin and the reality of the phone are equal, yeah. And they're accusing us of that. And we like it.

We say, ah, that feels good to me. Yeah, I'm guilty. Yeah, yeah, he did.

He did, yeah. It is confusing, okay. Exactly, okay.

We probably aren't Shindig. Okay, here we go. Let's go to Chandrakirti's commentary on this book, just to get a taste for what it sounds like, because we're not ...

I mean, if Nick ... if Mooncake starts supporting him when she's 16, he'll have time to go to this commentary and translate it for fun. Okay?

So, why don't we go get a taste of it, just in case Mooncake doesn't want to work. Okay, go. NAM SBYOR PAS Yeah ...

Well, all I wanted to say, okay, since you asked, okay, I'm going to look for NGON GYIS, okay? And I'll hit Chandrakirti. But let's go backwards.

Yeah, here it is. That's the last verse. Yeah, this is the verse where Gelteb Dey, as you pointed out, brings up the girl.

Okay? And he says, things don't have a beginning or an end. It's all a mirage.

Everything is a mirage. Yeah, that was the last verse of Nagarjuna. Okay?

So, we're picking up ... we're picking up ... yeah ...

we're picking up Chandrakirti at the last verse about the illusory lady. Okay? Alright.

Yeah, and by the way, Nagarjuna's ... statement is totally confusing anyway. I mean, we could go there.

He says, the beginning end and the ... the front end and the back end.

[Speaker 2]
Different verse, huh?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, the last verse, he was talking about front ends and back ends. Like the front end of a car and the back end of a car. But what was he talking about?

With things.

[Speaker 2]
Starting and stopping?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Starting and stopping. Okay.

Okay. So, there's no front end. There's no point at which you can say it started.

You can't draw a line and say it started then, and there's no back end. Okay? That was his last ...

LTA BU'I YONGS SUM LAS MI'GYUR If you're a wise person, you will not be infected by the idea that there could be a starting and a stopping. That there was a certain point at where the thing started, because there isn't. Okay?

And if you think so, your mind is LAS PA. Infected. Infected.

He said. That's the last thing Nagarjuna said to those guys. Okay?

If you think things had a beginning and ... And then he goes off on, but there are wise people who don't get fooled. Okay?

And he's going to talk about them. By the way, to go to the verse we're in now, which is quite a ways back already, he said, the first two and a half lines are describing the guy chasing the girl in the window. And then the last two parts of the ...

of the line are ... are describing the problems with that. So, what were the first two and a half lines?

Anybody who thinks that produced things could start or stop, who ... there's BUD TAGS as imagine. Okay?

We just had BUD TAGS as checking. Those guys, stop. RGYAL TSOGS RJE says that much of the verse is describing the guys who got fooled by the girl.

And then what's the problem with that? They get caught in samsara. Okay?

And there's a joke here, for a hundred ... for three hundred dollars, there's a joke here. Ten, nine, eight, seven, you're close, six, five, four, three, two, one.

It's a wheel because there's no stopping or starting. You see? Where ...

where did it start? You know, where did your car wheel start? You see?

At which point on a circle is the ... is the ... is the starting point?

There is none. That's what a circle means. Got it?

So, you guys who think you found a start and a stop to things, you are deluded. You don't understand the circle, meaning the cycle of samsara, which is caused by thinking there's a start and a stop. It's a very Nagarjuna ...

he's a ... you can really under ... you go into deep into Nagarjuna, you can find all this stuff.

You know? It's a tragedy. It's a joke tragedy.

Okay, anyway, we're going back to our verse, which is 19. Okay, here's our ... here's our verse.

Well ... where are we? Down a little bit more.

Oh, you think? No, I think we got to go back. Here's my notes, okay?

[Speaker 2]
Oh, really?

[Speaker 1]
Nil ... jor ... pe sipa?

There you go. Okay, good. So, it was relevant that you forced me to read the first part.

Those are the last two lines, of four lines, that you can go get if you want, of the verse before, about the people who got deluded. What's the ... plastic girl in the last verse?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, that they start and stop.

[Speaker 1]
Okay? Starting and stopping of any object in the universe is equal to a plastic woman that you could, you know, have a meaningful relationship with. Don't exist.

I can't get ... I'm not going there. I'm not going there.

Okay. Now, let's read ... let's take a little break and read Chandrakirti.

Okay? Niljorpe ...

[Speaker 2]
Niljorpe sipa njurjor ma ... Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Could be. Yeah. Yeah, so here we go.

Yeah, a lot of ... what he got from here, and a lot of what Je Tsongkapa gets from wisdom for example, is stolen from Chandrakirti. Okay.

Naturally. Now, the subject of the verb is here, and the ... I'm sorry, the subject of the sentence is here, and the verb is here.

Okay? Alright? There's five lines between.

Okay? So, those Niljorpas, meaning deep practitioner, meaning deep practitioner, those deep practitioners have not had an experience where their lo went to chinchilla. Yeah, good.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, their mind is not taking things ass backwards. There's the same word.

Okay? I don't like it. Yeah, it means a physical exerciser, and that's not what it is.

It's a deep practitioner. Okay. Okay.

To an American, to a normal American. SRID PA'I DUS BYAS MA NUS PA RGYU MA RNAMS MED KYIS LTA BU SRID PA So, there must have been a word SRID PA mentioned somewhere. You know, the world.

Here it means, how do they take the world? SRID PA here means world. How do they take the world?

Meaning, each and every produced thing in the universe. Okay. How do they take them?

They take them as being like ... like LTA BU, a RGYU MA. No, no, the MA here is not female.

But he does mention her down here. Here she's a RGYU MED POS MED. So, the MA in illusion is not feminine.

Okay. But it is down here. Okay, so ...

all things that are produced, which we can call BHA BA, like in Bhava Chakra, there's a new meaning of SRID PA, the world, which we can call the world, which means all changing things, all produced things, they are all like a RGYU MA. You can look here if you want, Nick, I don't know. They are all similar to a RGYU MA, which is to say they are similar to a MI RGYU.

[Speaker 2]
A mirage.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. Now, somebody detects that, who?

[Speaker 2]
Gyatso Jain?

[Speaker 1]
No, an Arya. An Arya. An Arya finally figures it out.

Okay. When they come out of Aryanship, by the way, which is an important point in this section, when they come out, they ... go back to seeing things that way.

And by the way, that's the next big subject Nagarjuna is going to talk about. He's headed there, in the long run. We won't get there for weeks.

Okay, but anyway ... Wisdom, SHIRBS, okay, sees what? It has a correct idea about things, which is that ...

all produced things are like an illusion. Okay? And that wisdom's name, to Chandrakirti, is SO SO RANG GI SHES RAB.

And I found other texts in the last couple days where he calls it SO SO RANG RIG PA'I YOD SHES. Yeah, and a Sangha. Yeah.

So, don't take it as ... apperception. There's more proof, okay?

So, he uses the same piece, SO SO RANG. Except here he calls it SHES RAB, and then in the other one he calls it RIG PA. Yeah, wisdom, okay?

So, they see that ... GANG YANG MI DMIGS Nothing in ... nothing in the world can be found, like ...

DMIGS MED DE BA'I ... Okay? That's it.

There's no such thing. You can look and you won't find it. What?

There doesn't exist ... DMIGS MED DE BA'I means ... it's not possible, it doesn't ...

cannot be seen. But you should translate it as, don't exist. There doesn't exist anything at all which exists ...

DON DANG PA'I ... in and of itself. Okay?

Yeah. Now, I'm proposing a new thing, okay? I'm proposing something for you guys who are translating these materials.

Consider saying real for DON DANG PA'I, or actual, or something like that. It's not the point that it's the highest, it's the point that a fire really is hot. You see?

It's not a question, is a fire ultimate reality? It's the question of whether heat is in a fire ultimately, meaning, in and of itself. Truly.

Really. Okay? So, I'm suggesting, when you're in these sections, consider not blindly using ultimate.

It's not the point. The point is, fire really is hot. But in Tibetan, that will be DON DANG PAR RTZA BA.

Okay? It really is hot. Got it?

So, I'm just ... say consider it when you run into DON DANG PA'I. Maybe it's not the case that you always have to call it ultimate reality, okay?

Because it's not the point. It really is hot. Okay.

GANG YANG MI MIG PA'I DNGOS PO RANG BZHIN GANG YIN PA Okay? GANG YANG MI MIG PA'I That nature of things which is ... don't exist, okay?

Not that you can't see it. It's not MI MIG PA. That nature of things that don't exist, meaning, do things have a ...

what do you call it? Front end and a back end. DNGOS GYI MTHA' Front end, or a back end.

Don't let your mind be infected by thinking that they do. Don't let your mind be infected by thinking that there's a front end to things when they started, and there was a ... there was a millisecond when they started and they weren't there the moment before.

Don't let your mind be infected by that. You are looking for an unmistaken state of mind, which is ... the wisdom of an Arya, or a yogi here, right?

The wisdom of a yogi who looks into the nature of things and sees that they are like an illusion. What did Chandrakirti just say? For a hundred dollars.

But you have to say it with reference to some Tibetan, maybe. You should pay me. Really, today you should pay me.

[Speaker 2]
Seeing things start and stop by itself.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, for zero dollars. I'm having a good day by the way. I didn't lose any money in this class yet.

Ten dollars or something. What was Chandrakirti being accused of saying by the other guy? No.

SONG SONG SONG SONG RGYUD MA ... Yeah, yeah, yeah. SONG SONG SONG SONG RGYUD MA RGYUD PA What's RGYUD PA?

Yeah, all that's left over is RGYUD MA TZAM. He says RGYUD MA TZAM. If you don't believe me, there it is.

RGYUD MA TZAM SONG SONG SONG DIG DIG DIG And all you're going to find is nothing there. It's just all illusion. So, according to you guys, everything is deceptive.

And there's no distinction between ... between things that seem to be deceptive and things that are real. For you, everything's deceptive.

You can go using this deceptive reality thing, but we don't accept the word reality. You can go saying everything's deceptive, but well, come on. The wife's imagination is deceiving her, but not that phone.

The phone is real. The phone is DUN DAM PA. Yeah, don't say ultimate.

The phone's not ultimate. They're going to make another one for the same price that doesn't do anything distinctively different. I didn't use it when it had two cameras.

Okay? And I own it. Okay.

Anyway. Got it? Okay.

Yeah, just remember, we're looking for ... a piece of scripture where Chandrakirti can be misquoted. And in my opinion, it's here.

Just ... in the book, explaining this same text. Wouldn't that be the place ...

wouldn't that be a good place to accuse Chandrakirti of doing something weird? In his commentary to our text. You know, don't go to all the books by Chandrakirti, which I did, and it took a long time, and he never said anything like he's accused of saying.

And there was a clue there. The repetition of the word SONG. That's a Tibetanism.

Tibetans repeat words for emphasis. We had DONG DONG in Seiji's text. And we had ME ME.

And so, it's a Tibetan thing to repeat something for effect. So, that was a clue that he was ... paraphrasing.

Yeah, okay. And then we had to go find ... where was he being misquoted?

I think this is where he was misquoted. Okay. Got it?

Which will make for a sexy footnote, if you can guess where he was misquoted. Say again? Oh, yeah.

It's confusing. I take SO SO ... SO SO RANG RIGS PA, or SO SO RANG GI ZHES RAB, has to be the direct perception of emptiness.

So, fill in the blanks. What is SO SO RANG? Which sees the nature of objects individually, maybe?

I would translate it that way. The where the what? No, no, that's not ...

no, right, no, that's not the SONG SONG. No, not at all. Yeah, not at all.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Here, here's the word RGYUD MA. That's how I found it actually.

I checked all the RGYUD MA's of Chandrakirti. Okay, now that took some time. How did I do that?

I put them all in the same file. If we had a relational database, we wouldn't have to do that ... at all.

Okay, in other words, if you could say, give me all the Chandrakirti's works from the database, I want to search them. You can't do it right now. You have to go get them and put them in the same place.

Yeah, okay, so anyway ... Exactly. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, I like ... So, at the bottom of everything is an illusion, and the guy hasn't misquoted us much. He pretty much is saying, when you dig, dig, dig, you'll find an illusion.

This is where Chandrakirti says it, and it's apropo, it's appropriate, that it's about the text where we are right now. Yeah. No, not much difference, he's just emphasis.

Okay? There's no significant difference here. Magic ...

Oh, it's distributed. Magic tricks and mirages. Maybe because one is produced by people and one is a natural phenomenon, but I don't think he's ...

I don't think it's too significant. That's true. He's being misquoted that much.

Yeah. Anyway, we got to go right? You have to go.

Okay. Okay, anyway we're cracking it, we're cracking it. Let's keep ...

You know, you stop, you take a breath, and you go back with your hammer and you keep going at it, you know? Oh, okay. He needs to go.

Okay, have a good break, okay? Don't fill it up, don't make yourself busy, okay? Take a real break.

[Speaker 2]
Excuse me?

[Speaker 1]
5.30.