Медитации на пустоту: объяснение шагов к пониманию того, что ничто не является самим собой, занятие 35

[Speaker 2]
Today, I would like to give a lecture on how to use the power of the mind to create the mind to create the mind to create the mind to create the mind to create the mind to create the mind to create the mind to create the mind to create the mind to create the mind to create the mind to create the mind to create the mind to create the mind to create the mind to create the mind to create the mind to create the mind to create the So when they were talking about their nature of what is appearing to the mind, what focus did they use that distinguishes it from the consequence group of the mind?

[Speaker 1]
Thank you for using group, by the way.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, branch? Oh, I should say branch. Branch?

Isn't it branch? Can you say it?

[Speaker 1]
Oh, it is branch.

[Speaker 2]
I'm sorry. But group is OK, too. He wasn't being sarcastic.

[Speaker 1]
Don't worry. OK. Group's OK.

Branch is better. Yeah. School is not good.

[Speaker 2]
OK.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
I heard that before school. Does anyone remember? Generally speaking, it has to be appearing to a state of mind which is not mistaken.

Newman?

[Speaker 1]
Newman. Bonus. What's the bonus?

$100 for what?

[Speaker 2]
How many extra points?

[Speaker 1]
What's the bonus?

[Speaker 2]
Give me the Tibetan money.

[Speaker 1]
I lost $3,000 in one day in Mexico.

[Speaker 2]
Good. Good.

[Speaker 1]
You did good. Better that people didn't have answers. No, it's losing money.

Your hearing is very good. What was the bonus?

[Speaker 2]
What's the Tibetan word for how many statements?

[Speaker 1]
Oh, Newman. Newman. It could also be a new IRA.

Just tell me if you don't want me to answer beforehand.

[Speaker 2]
You're so smart.

[Speaker 1]
OK.

[Speaker 2]
So it was difficult to pull out three questions from this little bit we did last time.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. We didn't have a full class, right? We had to go for a photo or something.

[Speaker 2]
No, it's a photo.

[Speaker 1]
OK.

[Speaker 2]
So Chinyi Lama referenced three texts that Heart of the Middle Way? No, it was just like a nice contextual way.

[Speaker 1]
I mean, I have no idea.

[Speaker 2]
I'll give you a clue. One of them is in our 12-volume collection.

[Speaker 1]
Oh. Yes. I do think he called it Illumination.

Oh, yeah. It was actually named for Gompa Rapsa.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, you're right.

[Speaker 1]
By the way, Lek Chinyi was also in the 12. Lek Chinyi was part of Yuen Tsang.

[Speaker 2]
Essence of El? Right. Essence of El.

The essence of the Elves.

[Speaker 1]
And the third one is? Tongtong.

[Speaker 2]
Tongtong.

[Speaker 1]
On Emptiness. Emptiness. We got to translate that, by the way.

Somebody fundraised a lot of money for that book.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, we got a decent amount. Cool. Who's going to do it?

I'll play.

[Speaker 1]
They don't know yet. Depends who will finish it.

[Speaker 2]
OK, and then what does Chinyi Long take from those three texts? Something that's a very short word? Nice.

[Speaker 1]
Nice, nice. Tochno, tochno.

[Speaker 2]
Wow.

[Speaker 1]
Good job.

[Speaker 2]
I suppose Changi Chugyu has no English equivalent.

[Speaker 1]
All right, let's not. That's it. Yeah, you're right.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, you're right. Next. Next.

We just made that up.

[Speaker 1]
We just had it. Provincial reason? Provincial.

Provincial? I mean, internal problem. Provisional goals.

Not goals. True. You made some speaking, right?

Yeah. Short term cause of error. Example.

[Speaker 2]
Getting drunk?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, getting drunk. Being sick or strong emotion is famous. Jealous that's your partner, and you see things that are not there.

OK.

[Speaker 2]
Computers aren't that good.

[Speaker 1]
Huh?

[Speaker 2]
As the above example says or something?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, metaphor.

[Speaker 1]
Bay is metaphor, but what's the thingy? I would use the metaphor. Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
Is there a word?

[Speaker 1]
To use a metaphor.

[Speaker 2]
So no one got it.

[Speaker 1]
And then he goes into the magician. I like this one. I'm happy you put this one.

This is a really good one. Nice. Wow.

Where'd that come from?

[Speaker 2]
All right, all right, all right.

[Speaker 1]
She's unbelievably smart. The fact that you take notes is quite nice. OK.

[Speaker 2]
Thank you for your participation and attention.

[Speaker 1]
Thanks for having us. That was a nice. No, you did well.

OK. So we've been talking about the example of a magician, a magic show, in the lower middle way school, the lower branch of the middle way school, the independent branch. Now we know what independent means, because they, according to our theory, they think ultimately works independently when you glue it to the chit-chin.

How's that?

[Speaker 2]
They're independent because it's not a record yet.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, that's your theory, and I really like it. I'm going to use it for the rest of my life. OK.

So for example, in their school, the fact that your mind is not messed up is crucial to establishing reality. So 50% of the object is coming from the object, and 50% of the object is coming from you. But the part that comes from you, the confirmation of the 50% that comes from the object must be valid, OK?

Must be valid, cannot be messed up. And the 50% that comes from its own side cannot come from its own side in a unique manner, OK? Because then you would be mind only.

Something like that? OK. So I'm just going back.

I'll just summarize. A magician throws a small stick, a small token, wooden token or a stick on the ground. And it's not a stone here, I don't think so.

It's a shindigyu. It doesn't say that, but everybody teaches it that way. I don't know.

It doesn't have to be a small stone. It does mean small stone. It's douwu, douwu.

And it got corrupted to do. OK. Anyway, and then they make it appear as a wild elephant or a horse, OK?

Then he says three different people are having three different perceptions going on. The magician sees the horse or the elephant, but doesn't believe in it. The people who first came to the show and were there when he threw magic powder and did abracadabra, those people see a horse or an elephant and really believe in it, OK?

What's going to come next? Yeah, someone who says, hey, what's the big crowd? What's going on?

And they come up later, but they don't get the mantra, and they don't get powder thrown in their eyes. Then these are all metaphors for aryas, non-aryas, and other people. OK.

Please read. Phil, you have the plane. Be critical.

[Speaker 2]
Mithma, like, te, te moa, chi, le pala, der, nangshin.

[Speaker 1]
Der?

[Speaker 2]
Ter.

[Speaker 1]
Ter.

[Speaker 2]
Ter.

[Speaker 1]
Not in English, de.

[Speaker 2]
Ter.

[Speaker 1]
Ter.

[Speaker 2]
Nangshin, nika, medho.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, you guys are getting boring. We'll have to do something else. Hm.

Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
Well, no, we've got to understand what we're saying.

[Speaker 1]
Now you know what mikmalepa means, because you had it in her quiz. Huh? The eyes have been eyes?

Malepa. Not been, they've not been a? Yeah, their eyes have not been affected or infected.

Malepa. Temowa means onlooker. You can see the root for watch in their LTA.

So temowa means someone, onlooker or audience. Gawkers? Gawkers, yeah.

Temowa. This chi means, yeah, arrived later. Lep means to arrive.

It's a good word to know if you want to learn colloquial Tibetan. Leswe. Leswe.

Has he arrived yet? No. Lemason.

OK. Those guys. They have nangwa and shemba.

[Speaker 2]
They, it appears to them and they believe it.

[Speaker 1]
And they believe it. OK. Sorry.

[Speaker 2]
No, neither. Neither. Neither.

Neither. Yeah, sorry.

[Speaker 1]
They have neither, it neither appears to them nor do they believe it. OK. Now we, now we're interpreting the magic show example.

And it's very famous. And I'm really happy it came in one of your texts. Because now, forever, we can refer to it.

OK? Please read and hustle. You want to take the plane?

Give her a, give her a hustle.

[Speaker 2]
Today, say true, she, they, ta, lang, ta, they, ta, ta, ta, they, ta, lang, soksu, nangwa, yut, jang, nangwa, te, gyu, ma, khen, tar, na, yul, rang, gi, du, lu, ki, ngu, ne, ma, yin, yu, ki, nga, tse, ki, le, pe, lo, yi, wang, yi, yin, na.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, I'm sorry. They'd say, true, she, we had it. The basics of the illusion?

Yeah, what you're using to make an illusion from, which is the piece of wood or this thing. Du, lu, yu. It's ta, lang, soksu, nangwa, yu.

It does appear as a horse or an elephant. OK, it is appearing as a horse or elephant. It is.

OK, it may not be real, but it is appearing that way. OK? yu, kyang.

But nowadays, that appearance, gyu, ma, khen, tar, na.

[Speaker 2]
He knows it's an illusion?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, according, or from the magician's point of view, OK? If you were to ask him, according to him, tar, na usually means according to him. He would say, if you ask the magician, tar, na, rang, gi, du, lu, ki, ngu, ne, ma, yin.

It is appearing, the stick is appearing as a wild elephant, but that's not through, ne, its own identity of some unique way of being. They say rang gi tummo mayam bi du lu. OK?

Their version of gakja is rang gi tummo mayam bi du lu su gyu pe, tongwa. You see? Rang gi tummo mayam bi du lu su gyu pe, tongwa.

Existing in its own unique way of being.

[Speaker 2]
So lu, here, is way of being, kind of?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, way of being. Its own way of being. Normally, they would say tummo mayam bi du lu.

Here, they say rang gi du lu. So it's not part of the stick's nature to appear as a horse or elephant. It's not part of the stick's nature to appear as a horse or elephant.

It's not coming from the stick, in that sense. But it does appear to be a horse or an elephant, OK? But it's not coming from the stick, OK?

So that's crucial to the lower Middle Way school. It would be interesting to try to link that to their beliefs about the Chodron. No, do two people see the Chodron the same way?

That was crucial. These two points are crucial to their school. Your text is crucial, and your text is crucial.

And those are crucial to understanding subtle mistakes you can make about emptiness. OK, nye nye, because they are still what?

[Speaker 2]
What?

[Speaker 1]
The rang gipas are still?

[Speaker 2]
Oh, wrong?

[Speaker 1]
No, Madhyamika.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, right, right, right.

[Speaker 1]
We had a huge debate about some guy who wanted to kick him out of the Middle Way. Somebody who wanted to kick him out of the Middle Way club. And he said, no, they're still Middle Way.

So their mistake must be subtle, OK? OK, yin ki, learning my yin ki. Well, why does the stick, the stick does appear as a horse, but it's not its nature that's a horse.

Well, why does it appear as a horse? Ngak ze kyi, by the words, by the mantra, and by the powder. It's two different things, OK?

The ze here means the powder. It's real powder in your eye. And the ngak means they do a mantra at the same time, abracadabra.

And that's the original meaning of mantra, was for magic, was in magic. Before Buddhism, well, longer than that, it meant magic words, OK? And the example of using a mantra was making it rain, or something like that.

OK, ngak ze kyi lepa. Infected or affected by the, that horse, the appearance of the horse is occurring because of wang ki, just means because of, due to, not by the power of. I mean, that's not quite that.

Of the mind. It's the mind that's making it appear that way, OK? It's not in the stick nature to appear as a wild elephant.

It's the mind. And specifically in the mind, which is nge yu, yeah, does have, is messed up in some way. Hang on.

[Speaker 2]
Would you say then, instead of nge yu, oh, not the windfall, but what kind of fall? I'll take a second.

[Speaker 1]
Hang on one second, OK? I'm sorry to interrupt the class, but.

[Speaker 2]
Still. OK. Would it be that the mantra and the powder are influencing the mind?

[Speaker 1]
You could say that, but lepa is, lepa has connotations of badness, OK?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Like lepa by a bad friend, they would say. You've been lepa'd by a bad, you can say influenced, but negatively influenced, maybe.

[Speaker 2]
OK. Is it still a valid perception?

[Speaker 1]
I'm sorry, what?

[Speaker 2]
Is it still a valid perception?

[Speaker 1]
Who's school? According to them, valid, I would say.

[Speaker 2]
Even though influenced?

[Speaker 1]
Towards what appears. Mm-hmm. So that's a long story.

OK, go ahead. Not te. Te mo wa.

Who's got the plain hustle? Are you dozing off? Come on.

Yell at something, anything. If she doesn't do anything wrong, yell at something right.

[Speaker 2]
Lung gi, te luk su yuk barn zin mo.

[Speaker 1]
Good. So dharnar can mean according to, or if you were to ask. OK.

According to the onlookers, what do you call? There's another word. Observer?

No.

[Speaker 2]
Rubber knicker.

[Speaker 1]
What do you call people who go to a play?

[Speaker 2]
Audience. Spectators.

[Speaker 1]
Spectator. Spectator, yeah, yeah. Sorry, I'm sorry.

The spectator, she's getting on a plane to Montreal. According to the spectators, whose eyes are infected by the mantra, et cetera, this horse, this wild elephant, is not lo la ngo way wang gi shak. What's it say?

Is not shark. Establish, joke. It's a joke, OK?

It is not established as existing by the power of the mind. It's really coming from the wood. It's really coming from the stick, OK?

Got it? Is it just your mind making that elephant? No.

It's coming from, he turned it into an elephant. He turned the stick into an elephant. It's not coming from me.

OK? The pen, the pen, right?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
It's not established. Right. You can say that.

Yinpang, they would hold, they would believe, dzin, that it exists in the nature of the, the, they would say, from its own side, OK, rang lun ne, the object has some kind of nature, duluk, of being a horse or a wild elephant, OK? OK? Dalang is duluk.

Then the object of our perception, from its own side, possesses a nature of being a horse or an elephant, OK? And the being is the yuk? It's the ki.

Duluk, you know, has the nature, has the nature of understood being a horse or a, OK? OK? This is a little hard, but if you understand it well, it gets easier to explain the lower middle way.

And I think Prasangika use it sometimes. I don't think it's restricted to the lower middle way.

[Speaker 2]
In ACI, it only comes up with reference to the lower middle way.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. OK. Well, it came from those three books, right?

[Speaker 2]
It's an illumination, right?

[Speaker 1]
Well, it's an illumination with regards to the lower middle way, probably. OK, go ahead. Wait, this guy needs somebody better to fly the plane.

Chinzon, can you be critical? I know it's tough, but come on.

[Speaker 2]
Low la, nangway.

[Speaker 1]
I like your high tones.

[Speaker 2]
I like your low tones. Rang gi dun la dun la gyur ne, duk par nangway.

[Speaker 1]
You got the low tones, and you got the high tones. Pe de dun la jang na, guess.

[Speaker 2]
The example. The meaning of those books, of that example.

[Speaker 1]
Books?

[Speaker 2]
Oh, right. Metaphor.

[Speaker 1]
Come on, what's he going to do next?

[Speaker 2]
He's going to explain the meaning of the metaphor.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, he's going to apply it to reality. Apply it to reality. So pe dun means the referent of a metaphor.

OK, so I'm going to tell you what the parts relate to. OK, I'm going to tell you what the parts relate to.

[Speaker 2]
If you ask me to.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, if one were to. Yeah. Yeah, good.

Mi klepe te mawa, a spectator whose eyes are infected. OK, to them, the appearance of a magical or an illusory. Illusory?

Be careful with gyur ma, because it can mean intestines. Some famous mistakes have been made in history between intestines and illusory. Spelling or pronunciation?

I think it's R-U-I, but I'm not sure. No, it's R. You might check.

Check DAS.

[Speaker 2]
So the pronunciation is the same?

[Speaker 1]
Exactly the same. That's the problem. OK, so te mawa la gyur me, illusory horse or elephant.

Ji ta nawa. So when the spectator's eyes are infected by mantra and powder, and they think they see, or an elephant appears to them, what does that compare to in real life? Here's what it compares to in real life.

So if you're going to explain it, you've got to get it right. And I always forget, and I have to go look it up, because I don't remember which is which.

[Speaker 2]
Infected by ignorance.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, good. Infected by misunderstanding, right? Infected by misunderstanding.

Tam-meo? No. Yeah, good.

Tam-meo way is here probably a synonym for? Noo-me. So-so-kyo.

Average person. We're translating as average person. Someone who never studied emptiness.

They just think things are coming from themselves. Average person. Here it just literally means any normal person, OK?

The greatest, one of the greatest sins in non-tantra is to kill someone. But the greatest sin in tantra is to think this room is not full of, that there's not at least three angels in this room right now. In tantra, there's a non-tantra.

No, in tantra, it's worse than killing someone, is to think there's not three angels in this room right now. At least. Well, can there be Russian angels?

I don't know. Just kidding. No, I'm just saying it's, who knows?

It's not me, OK? I can say. At least I'm not perceiving it that way.

Kyo-me-da-lang.

[Speaker 2]
But there is no self-presentation.

[Speaker 1]
A normal person, I think. Yeah, yeah. I always think of tamale.

I don't know, tamale. Maybe it's because I'm fasting. Tamale sen-chen nam-la.

Chö-di-dak na-wa-na. Now, I would say the use of chö here is a little sensitive. Why?

[Speaker 2]
Because it could mean, like, two different things.

[Speaker 1]
Well, is it all things?

[Speaker 2]
Is it one thing?

[Speaker 1]
Chö is a synonym for existing thing.

[Speaker 2]
Existing thing?

[Speaker 1]
You should have said you.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, because we're just saying it's been reflected.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, you never use chö for something false. Dharma. This is the word dharma.

Rang-gi-ngo dzin-be-na-chö. It exists. Dharma always exists.

So that's a little touchy. And maybe he did it on purpose. Maybe he said this real horse and this real elephant.

Okay, na-wa-na.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, I guess I would say, from the person's point of view who's infected, they look like chö. These things. These real things.

When they appear to them, lo-la-nang-gi-wang-gi-sha-pa-mo-yin-pa, they are not just appearing to me because I'm in a normal state of mind, which can confirm the 50% coming from the object. Okay, got it? You should say the whole thing.

Yeah, they have some nature of their own. Inherent. Maybe du-luk could be inherent nature.

Maybe du-luk would be good as inherent nature. The way he's been using it. They appear, through mun-ne, some inherent nature of their own.

They appear to. No, just inherent nature. Oh, through.

Mun-ne just means through. Okay, vai, vai, vai. Okay, this mun-ne doesn't mean from their side or something like that.

Okay. Okay, rang-gi, rang-ngo-ne-du-pa. Say rang-ngo-ne-du-pa.

That's a synonym for self-existent in Buddhism in general, which means coming from its own side. Okay. Rang-ngo-ne-du-pa.

You don't say rang-gi-ngo-ne or rang-ngo-ne. You just say rang-ngo-ne, rang-ngo-ne-du-pa. Yeah, mun means face.

It's used in the word to identify or to recognize which is.

[Speaker 2]
Mun-ze.

[Speaker 1]
If you high-tone it, it becomes entity. Baba. Lopo.

Okay, you must low-tone it. You must low-tone it. Not, that's, okay.

Mun-se. Mun-se. Okay, all right.

Okay, keep going. Wait, who's got, I need somebody tough.

[Speaker 2]
Vimala's good, she had some good ones.

[Speaker 1]
Vimala, come on. Criticize something. Tell her to sit up straight.

No, her.

[Speaker 2]
Take heart to lang-we. Dut-su-te. Rik-te.

Rik-te. Kek-pa. Kek-pa.

She's right. She's right. Kela-ta.

Lang-chi-tar. Nan-wa. Tar.

[Speaker 1]
Reach equilibrium.

[Speaker 2]
Chi-nang-chi. Chi-nang. Lo-la.

Lang-we. Wang-chi.

[Speaker 1]
Shak-pa. I like your S's also.

[Speaker 2]
Shak-pa.

[Speaker 1]
Shak-pa.

[Speaker 2]
Sang-tu. She-ne. She-ne.

[Speaker 1]
Nice.

[Speaker 2]
Te. Wang-chi-ma. Wang-chi.

Ma-sha. Te. Dut-su.

Su. Yuk-par. Mun-se.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. We need to look at a carving. It's dimly, it's remotely possible, but it would be a little inelegant.

I don't know. We're on 11A. 11A.

Okay. I suspect it is, but it's not too elegant. Okay.

What does nam mean by itself without nam-ka or something like that? At a time? Yeah.

When. It just means when. Okay.

When it does look like that, Dut-su-de. Dependent knowing Dut-su-de. Rig-pe-khepa-na.

That way of appearing. Any way of being where it could appear that way. Okay.

No way. Dut-su. Dut means to have a nature.

To stay. Right. It means to stay.

Right. It's the same as ne-pa. To stay.

[Speaker 2]
Please.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Dut means like to stay. Okay.

And it's not pre-nezo, which would be To desire. To desire. Yeah.

So this S-D-O-D is to stay. Dut-su means way of being. Way of being.

It appears to have that way of being, but that can be khepa by rig-pa. It can be stopped by the mind. It can be denied by reasoning.

This is S-R-I-G-S. Means logic. Proving.

Okay. By proofs. It can be denied that it has such a nature.

Okay. Inherent nature. G-Y-M-A-K-H-E-N-L-A So, G-Y-M-A-K-H-E-N-L-A D-A-L-L-A-N-G-Y-T-A-N-N-O-A-T-T-A In the same way Dada, horse, and the wild elephant do appear to the magician.

They do appear to the magician. Okay. CHI-NA-GYI CHI-NA-LA-LA-NA-WI-WANG-GYI-SHAB-PAD-TSAM-DU-SHES-NE We should understand that all CHOS, all existing entities, whether they are CHI or whether they are NAM.

[Speaker 2]
Outer or inner.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Which would be a four-letter word in mind-only school. You could never say, all things outer or inner.

In his school you would get whacked by your mind-only teacher. Even saying CHI-NA-GYI. Okay.

So we know we're not in the mind-only school. We did it. We got out of the mind-only school.

It was like getting out of jail. No, she went out. She was on it for a year.

And it was confusing. He's still in jail. But you're getting there.

Okay. Those existing things, inner and outer. Okay.

All of them are established. JOG. This is JOG.

Bhajan. Okay. It's the past tense of JOG, which means to establish as existing.

Establish as real. Establish as things. Okay.

By what? By how they appear to the mind. By appearing to the mind.

In the lower middle way school, if a thing doesn't appear 50% from its side, 50% from an unaffected state of mind, it can't be said to exist. It cannot be JOG-BHA, SHAG-BHA as existing. Okay, cool?

Got to have both. LO LA NANG BA'I DBANG GIS SHAG-BHA It's established not through some unique way of being of its own, but through appearing to a normal state of mind. If a normal state of mind sees something, it's real.

Okay? That's all. That's their school, which is approaching Prasangika.

It's approaching real Mahayamika. But they say 50% comes from the Andhra. NANG BA'I DBANG GIS SHAG-BHA TZAM DU SHES NE If you understand that that's the only thing making them exist, is that they're established by, mainly by appearing to an unaffected state of mind.

If you understand that, DE BA NI MA SHAG PA'I DU LUS SU YOD PAR MIN ZIN NO then you will not hold MIN ZIN that there is any unique way of being, which is not established by the mind, by appearing to the mind. If you understand how things are established by appearing to an unaffected state of mind, you will never hold that things could exist out there in the forest without a mind to perceive them. They don't exist.

A tree falling in the forest in this school is a perfect example of impossible. So now, when the piece of wood appears as a horse or an elephant, what does that refer to in the real world? What's that an example for in the real world?

OK. And the more pieces he has in the metaphor that apply to the real world, the better the author. You see, some authors wouldn't get to this part.

OK. So the better the author, the more thorough they are in connecting every piece to something in our real life.

[Speaker 2]
NGYU.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, Anton, you want to try?

[Speaker 2]
NGYU. Or is it NGYU? NGYU.

NGYU.

[Speaker 1]
NGYU-KU.

[Speaker 2]
NGYU-KU. NGYU. Shakpa.

[Speaker 1]
Shakpa means to confess, right? Shakpa means to establish.

[Speaker 2]
OK.

[Speaker 1]
I think it's TSE. I'm pretty sure. Good.

Good. By the way, CHO is a common Taipei air for TSE. Because of the...

That looks like a nano.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
There's only one word which is CHO TU, which means miracle. Like the Day of Miracles of the Buddha is called CHO TU. But it's uncommon.

OK. So what's... Let's first talk about the metaphor.

What are we talking about in the metaphor that we're trying to find the meaning for in real life? OK. So let's start from the end of the sentence.

CHU SHI MU NE From the side of the little stick, from the side of the little stick, an appearance of a horse or elephant coming out, it's like that. It's like that. Something's like that.

Something in our real life is similar to the way the stick is appearing as a horse. Sorry. The appearance of a horse is coming out of the stick.

OK. What? Well, when a nyukukes...

When a sprout... Yeah. When a sprout pops out of a seed.

OK. When a sprout pops out of a seed, that's just shakpa by the law.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
It's just established by the fact that it's appearing to a normal state of consciousness. OK. Meaning, if there was nobody there, it wouldn't be happening.

OK. But, generally speaking, nyuku ranggi mu ne, the fact that, in general, a sprout, ranggi mu ne, sabun le kyewa ni, does grow from a seed from its own side, generally speaking. Generally speaking...

[Speaker 2]
Which one has its own side?

[Speaker 1]
Ranggi mu ne, from its own side.

[Speaker 2]
Which one? The kyeewa or the sabun?

[Speaker 1]
No. Not in general. If we're talking philosophy, if we're talking philosophy, a sprout never goes out of a seed.

Unless there's an unaffected state of mind there to perceive it. But generally speaking, sprouts grow from seeds. OK.

From their own side. And that's supposed to mean there is something coming out of the stick that appears as a horseradish. There is some appearance coming out.

OK. So that's a tough one. That's a tough one.

You're going to have to sit with that one for a while.

[Speaker 2]
Well, I wonder, do we want to use some other kind of word, like the cheer in this case? No.

[Speaker 1]
No, I don't think so.

[Speaker 2]
Maybe conventional in here?

[Speaker 1]
He didn't say conventional, you know. Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
I think it is num.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah? It looks like num to you? Yeah.

So we're going to take this question mark out.

[Speaker 2]
Right here. Thanks, Ben.

[Speaker 1]
Of course. Can you check? Well, the cho is for sure.

That's it. OK, cool. You've got to sit with that, because that's not so comfortable to me either.

I'm pretty uncomfortable with that runging when they're from its own side. I think they would say a stick is... Sorry.

The appearance of the elephant is coming from the side of the stick.

[Speaker 2]
Well, that's where we end, right? You say num.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, I think we would say that. I think that's comfortable. Wait, I need a plane.

We just don't have a good plane for us today.

[Speaker 2]
We have a pilot right here.

[Speaker 1]
Word, word. Come on. Be mean.

Be unkind. Finally permission. This is...

It's getting harder, OK? But let's just do the words and then we can... Probably you enlighten us next time.

Jogpay lo means... Shakpay lo means... Well, what kind of...

What state of mind can confirm things? OK? What state of mind, lo, can confirm things?

This is something. Jog, shak... OK, what...

So what do you have to be a state of mind to confirm all this? To confirm the existence of something. OK?

This is kind of a pramana. OK? What is a state of mind that can say this is real?

OK? This exists. It better be nu-me.

That much we're OK with. We said it this morning. We said it earlier today.

It must be unaffected by being drunk, being... Chalky chalgyus. Chalky chalgyus.

Short-term causes of error. Which is perspective. Like the car next to you backs up and you think you're moving into the intersection or you're sick or you're super jealous or something like that.

So shak... A. A.

No, A. It must be A. And...

This is an unaffected state of mind. OK? Only an unaffected state of mind can confirm the existence of an object.

OK? But... But...

shanyu... Now... When you study pramana...

When we get... If we ever get into K.R.Y.P.C.E. Sema... Dedun...

Dedunyiki Munsel. Which is an incredible classic. It is the greatest commentary on pramana.

I think. I mean, that's a classic. I started it with Nimbo but we never finished.

He pooped down on me. Which has happened in my life a lot. I don't know why I have to see that.

OK. Uh... Shigurki.

So I'd have to start over with... But it's an incredible book. shanyu la chuway no...

So... There's you, right? Object.

But then you can say the object as it appears. The object I think I see. The object I'm focused on.

So there's a distinction made between the object as it is and the object as it appears and the object as I take it to be. dzin dang gi yu. shanyu.

nang yu. Nang yu? Say nang yu.

The object as it appears. Shanyu. The object that I think I see.

OK. And then dzin dang gi yu. The object as I take it.

OK. And there's more. Kiryabji has a huge list, and it's unbelievable.

It's great for debating. Yeah, they're almost the same.

[Speaker 2]
Almost the same.

[Speaker 1]
As you... This means, as you mistakenly feel it to be.

[Speaker 2]
OK.

[Speaker 1]
Uh... Where's the dzin? Oh, dzin dang.

S-T-A-N-G-S. dzin dang gi yu. S-T-A-N-G-S.

Meaning the gate of a horse. OK. That's a long story.

OK. Let's not go there. No, I'm just trying to understand.

No, I mean, we can do it. But there's... The object that you think is there is shanyu.

OK. Right now, we're just doing the object that you think is there. Then nang yu, the object as it appears to you, could still be false.

The object as it really is, uh... you know, I don't know, mig yu. Well, and then there's mig yu, mig yu means the object you're looking at.

So, these are all different flavors. This one is specifically the thing you think you see, meaning you're wrong. Shen means the thing you think you see.

[Speaker 2]
Uh...

[Speaker 1]
So, there's another state of mind, OK, which is mistaken about what it thinks it sees. OK. So, this phrase is difficult.

There's another state of mind. Could you... Could you, in the mind-only school, say that the 50% which comes from you could be established?

Could you say that a state of mind which is mistaken about its object could ever be the 50% from your side? The state of mind which is mistaken towards what it thinks it sees, in this lower middle way, could it ever be the mind, the 50% coming from your side, in an event? No, impossible.

It has to be nu me. This is the opposite of nu me. This is the opposite of undrunk, unstoned, uncrazy, unjealous.

It means... This one is nu, OK, mistaken towards what it thinks it sees. nang kyi, tsam kyi, jopa min nu, nu min du.

They don't say, they don't agree, min du, that this would have the capacity, nupa, to say, oh, that appearance is real. OK, that's a real thing. It could not interpret the appearance.

Nowat sam. OK.

[Speaker 2]
Merely.

[Speaker 1]
Merely, yeah. Nowat tsam kyi. Something cannot be established as existing just because it's appearing.

OK. If it's appearing to a mistaken state of mind, a messed up state of mind, that's not enough to say it exists. That's not enough to say it exists.

OK. So it's really, they're trying to nail down what state of mind does it have to be that's giving the 50% from our side. And it cannot be a mistaken state of mind, an affected state of mind.

OK, cool. And they could have said, for tuwa, he could have said, chal kyi tu gyi tuwa, you know, mistaken by being drunk or short-term causes. Then there's pu kyi tu gu, what's that?

Yeah, long-term, big-time, big-time defects in the human mind, which is taking it to be self-existent. OK, that's all. They distinguish between permanent defects in the human mind and impermanent defects in the human mind.

But his text said, you can operate on the tumor.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, you can extract the tumor and not kill the brain.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, and you don't have to rip out the brain. Lo budwa, lo budwa, impurities in the mind are safely removable. All impurities of the human mind are safely removable.

Perfection is possible because the problems of the human mind are removable. They're not inherent to the mind. You don't kill the patient when you cut out the tumor.

The mimamsa disagreed. They said human perfection was impossible. That they were takpa, et cetera.

And, and, if you want to get super cute for $50, $100, get super cute on that point. Five, four, three, I want a super cute thing about the mimamsa's position. Five, four, three, two, one.

When you jump in the air, you can't jump from there. And, when you boil water, you can't boil boiling water because it'll evaporate, meaning the patient will die. You see, the mind will be destroyed.

They say human perfection is impossible because every time you make some progress, you fall back. You can't jump, and the metaphor they use is when a person jumps straight up, they can't go from there and jump again. So they always come down, and then they will jump again, but they're never going to get perfection.

Or they'll just boil their mind away. No, meaning if you take out the perfections, you killed the brain. Okay?

Thank you. Thank you.