Медитации на пустоту: объяснение шагов к пониманию того, что ничто не является самим собой, занятие 34

[Speaker 2]
Today, I'm going to give you a brief introduction to the Dhamma-Vinaya, which is the Dhamma-Vinaya of the Dhamma-Vinaya. So, I'm going to give you a brief introduction to the Dhamma-Vinaya. The definition of ta-nam, aside for all the horses.

No, let's stop. This is ta-nam. Would you like a clue?

[Speaker 1]
Yes.

[Speaker 2]
It has something to do with the quote that Chönyi Lama explains of Je Tsongkhapa saying that tantric practitioners need to be familiar with the mind only. At least. Ta-na-tsam.

Okay. Ta-na-tsam.

[Speaker 1]
At least.

[Speaker 2]
That's it for today.

[Speaker 1]
Whoa!

[Speaker 2]
She's just surviving a head wound.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, I understand.

[Speaker 2]
She'll come around.

[Speaker 1]
She's good for it.

[Speaker 2]
Or you could say dun-tun. What's dun-tun?

[Speaker 1]
Tun? Tun. Accurate.

In a way.

[Speaker 2]
No discrepancy.

[Speaker 1]
The meaning is in a chord? Yeah, in a chord. Mao will toss up a tu-na-tsam?

Mao.

[Speaker 2]
You have a similar perception.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
Probably the same perception.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, cool.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, let's stop.

[Speaker 1]
Back to your text. I'm just going to summarize what just came because we're in the middle of a discussion. According to the Lower Middle Way, Okay.

when things appear to the mind, they believe they are that way, and therefore we are not mistaken towards what's appearing to our mind. Therefore, there's a difference between the Higher and Lower Middle Way, which is kind of a difference in the subtlety of the Gakja, between the two schools, okay? So in this school, they place, Lower Middle Way, they place great emphasis on whether or not, on the thing appearing to an unaffected state of mind, okay?

Which means the 50% that comes from the object, okay? And that's enough to say, and if it were a unique way of being from its own side, that would be Gakja. But if you don't say unique way of being from its own side, something's coming from its own side, data's coming from its own side, and then you interpret the data, or you organize the data.

The silver and the long in the pot are coming, are there, and then I'm organizing it. The parts of the car are there, the parts of the pen are there, and I'm organizing it. But the parts were there, that's Lower Middle Way, okay?

And if it appears to me that the parts were there, that's correct perception, okay? All right. If it were to exist out there on its own, without my participation of my mind, without my 50%, that's Gakja.

In their school. We stopped there. Now, please read, where is everybody?

Oh, different reasons they're gone. Who are you over here? Bengbomi want to take the plane?

Okay, yell at her. He's too polite.

[Speaker 2]
He's very polite.

[Speaker 1]
Doesn't mean he's not going to yell at you.

[Speaker 2]
Doesn't mean he's not going to correct you. Tell your way. What did I say?

What did I say? I don't remember. No prenatal on the second column.

Oh, wow. Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Now, how would the Prasangika talk about the 50% question? You know, do there have to be, does there have to be data out there or not, according to the Prasangika? It is possible to establish the existence of something by, merely by the power of the mind.

Meaning, when the mind uses names and expressions. Ming dang ta nye. Okay, names and expressions.

Or you can say, Ming dey dakpa. BRDA. Ta nye here is standing in for BRDA, which means names and signs.

Names and signs. And the most famous use of da, BRDA, is nyen da, which means a fire alarm sound. Okay?

Nyen means dangerous.

[Speaker 2]
How do you spell it?

[Speaker 1]
I think it's G-N-Y-A-N. Nyen ka. But it might not be.

Look it up in dot. But anyway, nyen da means an alert, a sign of alert. Alert sign?

It means the wailing of a siren, a fire siren. So it gives you an indication. Da means indication or sign.

So first of all, I'll ask you guys, what does name and signs mean? Or name and expression?

[Speaker 2]
The mental image.

[Speaker 1]
Good. Da is definitely mental image, okay? I found that out many years ago and I was so happy.

Name could be the verbalization, okay? It could be the verbalization. When the karmic seed opens, in DCI terms, and an image comes out, it's often accompanied by a name in your language.

You see what I mean? Pot. Or, I don't know, how do you say?

Kastro? How do you say?

[Speaker 2]
Kastrulya.

[Speaker 1]
Kastrulya. In Russian, pot. Right?

I don't know where that came from, which we get the word kastro. But, you know, so when a Russian person looks at a pot, the word kastrulya comes in their mind, but it's just a shorthand for the mental image coming out of the seed, which is of a pot, unifying pot. So they tend to...

You could cut the ming, and it would still be correct. You could stop saying, ming de tsak tsak, ming de shak tsam. You don't have to say, established only by names and images.

You could say, just established by images, because really that's the point. Name is just a shorthand for the image, and it changes according to your culture, to your language.

[Speaker 2]
And doesn't it underscore that it's a projection?

[Speaker 1]
That we're... Yeah, it implies unreality, yeah. Unconcreteness or something like that.

Anyway, I'm just trying to point out why they say ming dang tanye, or ming dang da, okay? Dogma means apply a label. Dopa means glue.

It almost means glue. The word glue is also dopa, to apply glue. Glue a label on something.

Like you go around with little post-its, and you say pot, TV, spoon, table. Your mind is doing little post-its, okay? All right, chen na ming dang dang do ge, loi wan, just some, just creations of your mind, okay?

This is whose view? Yeah, yeah, okay. But di pay, di pay means, but these guys, who's the other guys?

Yeah, the lower middle way, they got a different idea. de tsam kyi mi nu, that's not enough to say something exists there has to be data out there appearing to you. And there has to be an unmistaken perception going on, okay?

So is there implication that in the highest middle way school you could establish the existence of something with a mistaken perception?

[Speaker 2]
If that's the difference, then yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Dreams exist. Dreams exist. It's a mistaken perception.

You know, getting killed in a dream, or flying in the sky in a dream. These are, in the highest school, they exist. Your mind has, your seed has opened and created them.

There is flying in a dream.

[Speaker 2]
Or there is a self that exists.

[Speaker 1]
The flying in a dream is real, but it's false.

[Speaker 2]
No way that's an acceptance.

[Speaker 1]
It's explainable, but it's it's not what you think it is at the time. But there's a reason why you're having flying in a dream instead of getting killed in a dream.

[Speaker 2]
That's lower way acceptance?

[Speaker 1]
Say again? No.

[Speaker 2]
No reality.

[Speaker 1]
But the higher schools say, look, it's happening. It's got to come from someplace. Okay?

So anyway, I'm just trying to cover. Okay, dipe tsam kyi. Dipe, these guys, meaning for your translation purposes, you've got to remember that dipa means ranggipas.

The svantantrikas would say, mi nu. That's not, you cannot establish the existence of something only on the mind labeling with pictures coming out of seeds. Okay?

You cannot establish with that. That's not enough. De tsam.

That, just that is not enough. Okay? You need a shepa.

You need a state of mind which is nimit.

[Speaker 2]
Unmistaken.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, unmistaken. Not drunk. Not angry.

Not jealous. Not deceived by emotions or illness. Okay?

And then he's going to give you a clarification of what it means to say unaffected.

[Speaker 2]
Okay?

[Speaker 1]
There's a small clarification of what unaffected means. Yeah, tsel kyi thul gyu. Say, thul.

Thul. Gyu. It means literally, a reason for mistake.

Meaning, illness, strong emotion, cars moving next to you, so it looks like your car's rolling into the intersection. They're backing up next to you, and you slam on the brakes, but really you didn't move. Okay?

These are thul gyu. Now, thul gyu's mistakes, mental mistakes in Buddhism are divided into thul kyi thul gyu and tsel kyi thul gyu. Say, thul kyi thul gyu.

Thul kyi thul gyu. And tsel kyi thul gyu. It's hard.

Tsel means short term. Thul means ultimate or long term. P-H-U-G, I think.

And that's a cool distinction to learn, okay? Tsel means short term, like you're sick, or you're feeling very jealous, so you think your husband's texting some girl when he's just trying to buy your birthday present. Or you have a mistake, and those are short term causes of mistakes.

Short term reasons why your mind would make a mistake. Tsel kyi thul gyu. Thul means mistake, right?

Then P-H-U-G is always believing that the pen is coming from the pen. That's called the ultimate cause of mistake, okay? P-H-U-G.

[Speaker 2]
So...

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, I hear the Svatantrika guys being sensitive, and he's saying, when I say your mind has to... Part of what's required to say that something exists is you have to say your state of mind is not crazy. There has to be a state of mind which is not crazy.

50%. The 50% that comes from your side must be reasonable. And the 50% has to come from the other side.

But the 50% that comes from your side has to be reasonable. It can't be crazy. It can't be crazy like you're drunk or you're on LSD or something, okay?

It's free, it's nirme, it's unaffected. It's free of, but if you want to go more deep, it's free of temporary causes of mistaking, okay? Because to demand that it would be free from Phukyatrugu would mean you're already in arhat.

Okay, so that's too much. Hajang Tewa. $50.

Canceled! That's, come on, that's asking too much. Hajang Tewa means that's asking too much.

In English we say that's asking too much. Come on. You can't demand that every perception be an arhat's perception.

You can't say that the state of mind established that a thing's existence is there has to be making no mistake at all. That's going too far. Hajang Tewa.

Okay, alright. Woo, that was close. I was afraid the human dictionary would figure it out, so I canceled the bet.

Okay, maybe one more Shepa Sogla. Nangway Wangkey. So, it must be appearing to a reasonable state of mind.

It's part of their definition of existence. Okay. Jokgabar.

Then you can say it exists. This jok means you can say it exists. You can establish it as existing.

This jok means you can establish it as existing. Okay, what? If things are appearing from their own side, 50%, and if I'm having a reasonable perception of it.

Not perfect, but reasonable. Jokgabar dupe joksu kepa cheo. So, there's a big difference.

No, this means difference. Big difference between between the two Madhyamika branches. The difference was so big that in Nick's text the Shen Luke wanted to kick them out of Madhyamika.

He said, come on, we can't call these guys Madhyamika. 50% from its own side, come on. You know, where's the middle way here?

Okay.

[Speaker 2]
You say there's a big difference in how they establish things as existing.

[Speaker 1]
Exactly, yeah. Yeah, joksu. Yupe joksu.

Yul yupa joksu. To establish an object as existing. There's a big difference, okay.

Okay. Now, he's going to get into the magician example, which is important for the lower middle way. They like the magician example.

Okay. So, he's going to get into it. So, please go ahead.

[Speaker 2]
tong tun sun gi ung pa du te pey teng ne she na Okay, good.

[Speaker 1]
pey teng ne means using a metaphor.

[Speaker 2]
Oh.

[Speaker 1]
It means from atop a metaphor.

[Speaker 2]
From atop a metaphor.

[Speaker 1]
But it means use a metaphor, to apply a metaphor, she na. I'm going to explain this point using a metaphor. But the Tibetan says, on top of a metaphor.

From on top of a metaphor. So just be aware by using a metaphor. I'm going to explain lo la nangway wang gyi jok tsul.

How is it that the lower middle way branch explains the role, wang, the role of the object appearing to the mind as part of the defining of a thing as existing. So lo la nangway wang gyi jok tsul. If you establish things as existing, if you establish things as existing partly due to how they appear to the mind, understood partly, right?

Fifty percent, right? Then what exactly does that mean? Can you give an example to kind of clarify what that is?

What is this fifty percent of the thing appearing to the mind that's required in this school, lower middle way branch, to say that something does exist? How do you describe that? Oh, I'll give you an example.

And I'll take this example from three classics that we should all agree to. There are three classics we can use. First is Juktik, which is Tsongkhapa's commentary to...

Yeah. No, it's not illumination. He wrote two...

No, I'm sorry. I guess... No, you know what it is?

Yeah, it is my book. It's Gombalab's book. Sorry.

Yeah. Because he wrote a commentary to Nagarjuna. So I'm just going to put this for you.

Okay. And from Jangay Namje, distinguishing between the literal and the figurative, which is his nickname for the essence of eloquence. Okay, I looked it up because...

This is one of the hardest things to find in the database, when there's a nickname for a book. Because they'll rarely give the whole name with the nickname. Right.

So you kind of just have to... How would you think to figure it out? What do you think is the way to figure it out?

They almost never will give a full name with the nickname.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, find the nickname, see what they're quoting...

[Speaker 1]
Exactly. Yeah. Okay, got it?

Like if somebody quoted Juktik, and if the scripture said, Juktik-le, this quotation is from Juktik, then you find that quotation, and you go look for the quotation, and if it's found in Gombarapsa, you confirm that Juktik means Gombarapsa. Juktik means commentary to entry. You know, we don't know what book it is, okay?

So what he said is the method, okay? And it's cool to know that method. These are monastic nicknames, so if you haven't lived in a monastery, you don't know them.

And they're hard to confirm. Okay, all right. Dongtun?

[Speaker 2]
The Interlude on Emptiness.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, the Interlude on Emptiness. Dongtun, Chenmo, okay? And there are other Dongtuns.

These three books, Sun, give this metaphor. They talk about this metaphor. So I'm going to give you the version which is shared by those three books.

What's the Mayinga? Yeah, there's probably some other versions of this example, but I'm giving it to you according to K. Dubje and Je Tsongkapa, okay?

Which is probably pretty good.

[Speaker 2]
Sorry?

[Speaker 1]
Oh, Gompa De. The intention of those three books. You know, the thinking, we would say in English.

I'm going to follow the thinking of those three books, and I'm going to summarize the thinking. I'm not going to give all those details. Dute means I'm going to just collect it and summarize it for you, okay?

I would say summarize if I were translating it. Okay, here starts the example of the magician. You've heard it a few times in your life.

You're not clear which parts are which. No, I'm just talking from my own experience. You know?

[Speaker 2]
Dieu? French.

[Speaker 1]
Dieu, mon Dieu. Duma Ken. The illusionist.

Yeah, Ken at the end of anything. Yeah, put it on any verb you want. Che Ken doer.

Some Ken thinker. You know? Nega Che Ken the worker.

Just put it on anything. It doesn't mean K, but it's related, isn't it? What's Kepa?

[Speaker 2]
Master.

[Speaker 1]
That's a master of, you know, plumbing or something. Yeah. Okay, Dieu is the diminutive of do.

A little stick. A little rock. Yeah, a little rock.

Yeah, do. Okay, so like Dorje Chupa. Dorje, stone.

King of stones. Dorje, diamond, badra. So do means stone.

Dieu means little pebble. But it's always explained in the literature as meaning a little piece of stick. It's like a piece of stick like this big.

Why do they say both then? I also wondered about that and I looked it up and sticks are longer. Okay, so a little piece of wood or a whole stick of wood.

Shing bu sok. Then you know the story. They throw it on the ground.

There's a circle of people around. They do abracadabra in English. It means magic words.

It's jo. The old meaning of jo. Jo?

[Speaker 2]
Jo.

[Speaker 1]
Mantra. Jo. Yeah, the old meaning of mantra is magic words.

And in English we sometimes say abracadabra. I think it might be Persian. It means wubba bubba.

You know what I mean, wubba bubba. And then according to the scriptures... What do you say in Russian?

[Speaker 2]
Abracadabra.

[Speaker 1]
And then you throw powder powder in the people's eyes. And it's some kind of drug or something. They see things that aren't there.

So they always say powder and mantra. Okay. And as I mentioned before, I've seen magicians.

There are village magicians who walk from village to village their whole life. And they're good at it. They're really good at it.

And it does feel like a cow. Here it says ta lang. Cow or an elephant.

Sorry, horse. Horse or a wild elephant. A wild elephant.

Lang can be cow. But lang chen, big cow, is an elephant. So normally it's something that would scare the audience.

This blood sweating horse. This is a Chinese expression. Yeah, either it's a magical horse, you know, super horse running at them.

Or it's an elephant, a crazy elephant running at them. It has to be something that the audience would be like, ah! And they all run away.

This is an old Chinese tradition that there was a fine kind of horse that used to sweat blood. Okay, xin bu so, ta lang so su chu pe tse ma. When they emanate.

Okay. But there has to be a tul shi. What's that mean?

The foundation for the emanation. Yeah, there has to be a stick or a... Then they see the stick as a horse.

Or they see the stick as an elephant. So it's important in this discussion that you have a tul shi and a tul pa. You have something that is only a stick and then people see it as a horse.

Tul shi. Is that it? They really exist?

[Speaker 2]
Well, it's a real animal. It's a special horse. It's not a magical horse.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, okay, okay. It's the best of horses. Best of horses.

In the Tang dynasty.

[Speaker 2]
Maybe earlier. Okay.

[Speaker 1]
ta lang so su chu pe tse ma. When the magician does his thing, throws down a stick, throws powder in your eyes, and goes abracadabra, then there's three different things can happen, depending on who you are in the story. Whether you're the magician or the original audience or a person who came after the powder was thrown.

Okay, got it?

[Speaker 2]
Where's the mantra?

[Speaker 1]
He doesn't mention it in this case. Here it is here, actually. ngak.

Mantra. Okay. Mantra, then ze.

Ze here is the powder. Oh. Okay.

Substance. Yeah. So nang tsul sum jung wa means there's three different things going on for three different people in this story, in this metaphor.

Go ahead. Yeah, literally that. There's three appearances going on.

Okay? There's three ways of appearing going on. Okay?

And there's three minutes going on. Go ahead. I'm excited that it got to be in your book.

I like this example. But, excuse me, but it's interesting to always to remember that it's used by which school? Lower Middle Way.

So it's not a great example for Higher Middle Way.

[Speaker 2]
gyu ma khyen rang ni la shi te tak lang du nangwa yid kyang shenpa me kyang.

[Speaker 1]
Shenpa. This is the shenpa and shidra. Shenpa, shidra.

[Speaker 2]
Attachment.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, they don't have any attachment to it being real. But, it nangwa. They also see the horse.

Because they got the powder in their eyes also. Even the magician. So, yeah, it does appear to him, the horse, but he doesn't believe in it.

So you might say shenpa is belief. He doesn't believe in it. He knows it's not real.

Tak lang always means horse or elephant.

[Speaker 2]
Specifically means horse or elephant, or it means horse, or it means an elephant?

[Speaker 1]
Oh, no. In this discussion, it classically means a horse or an elephant. Yeah, it doesn't mean a horse and an elephant, and it doesn't mean an elephant teach horse.

And it also doesn't mean a cow, because a cow would not be a big deal for a magic show. You know, moo. Ah, there goes another cow.

Okay. So, gyuma ken means the magician, which is literally in Tibetan, the illusioner. The illusioner.

To him himself, rang nila, to him himself, that she, chul she, what's the chul she? The stick, or the dew, or the little piece of stick. It's actually a piece of wood, small piece of wood.

Okay, it's a, there's an English word for that. It almost sounds like marker, but it's not. We better keep going.

Yeah, there's an English idiom for a small piece of stick. It sounds like marker, but I'm not sure. Okay, talang deno yen.

Now, ngak dan tse kyi mik, the important word in the next phrase is lepa. Lepa means polluted by, or affected by, infected. I like to call it infected.

Okay, lepa means influenced by, in a bad sense, infected by. The people whose eyes are infected by the ngak or the tse. Yeah, meaning the original audience.

Okay? Temowa means onlookers, literally. Temowa means onlooker, audience.

Yeah, one more. The audience whose eyes are infected by the mantra and by the powder. The talang knows to them.

The horse or elephant appears to them, and they believe in it. They have a shemba about it. Okay, and we're going to stop there, which is okay, because we're going to get to the guy who came later and didn't get powder in his eyes, and he doesn't know why everyone's screaming.

Like, why is everybody screaming, you know? Ah, I'm going to get crushed by this wild elephant. Okay.

Eighteenth today or twentieth today?

[Speaker 2]
Twentieth.

[Speaker 1]
All right. Can you gewa me?

[Speaker 2]
I can gewa me.

[Speaker 1]
Gewa di gewa kun. Sanam yeshe tsotsok shing. Sanam yeshe wechung we.

Daba kunyi topashok. Nongun a na na na na na na kono ye. Gewa di gewa kun.

[Speaker 2]
Thank you, Gershwin.