Классика Алмазного огранщика: Нижний Срединный путь — Анализ зависимости, занятие 9

[Speaker 1]
Sadhguru chants Sat-suk-ki-juk-shin-pre-tok-tram rī-rāṅg-miṃ-śī-nyin-dey-gyen-pā-gī saṅge śiṃ-dū-mī-te-u-vā-gī tok-kun-nam-dāk-śiṃ-lāk-ce-pārśau yī-laṃ gu-rū-rā-khaṃ-nā-dhār-kaṃ-gīr-yāntā-yāmi saṅge śiṃ-dū-mī-te-u-vā-gī tok-kun-nam-dāk-śiṃ-lāk-ce-pārśau yī-laṃ gu-rū-rā-khaṃ-nā-dhār-kaṃ-gīr-yāntā-yāmi saṅge śiṃ-dū-mī-te-u-vā-gī tok-kun-nam-dāk-śiṃ-lāk-ce-pārśau yī-laṃ gu-rū-rā-khaṃ-nā-dhār-kaṃ-gī tok-kun-nam-dāk-śiṃ-lāk-ce-pārśau yī-laṃ gu-rū-rā-khaṃ-nā-dhār-kaṃ-gī tok-kun-nam-dāk-śiṃ-lāk-ce-pārśau yī-laṃ gu-rū-rā-khaṃ-nā-dhār-kaṃ-gī tok-kun-nam-dāk-śiṃ-lāk-ce-pārśau yī-laṃ chū-bhār-gyū-dhāg-mī-gyaṃ-sū-jī dhāg-gī-chū-nyen-gyi-pe-sa-nāṃ-gī rō-lāk-kan-chīr-saṅge-dhru-pārśau

[Speaker 2]
What? I'm excited. Huh?

[Speaker 1]
I'm excited. I like this thing we did yesterday. Yeah, this is like the best time of the year.

You want to read?

[Speaker 2]
Khachid Nare.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Seiji, can you help me with that? Yeah, thank you.

That's good, that's good. Just one. Alright.

Kī-gyen-gyao. Yeah, that's your job. Kī-gyen-gyao-woos.

Oh, I gotta make my cursor bigger. Hang on. I know.

Okay, so, kī-gyen-gyao-woos, apostrophe s, possessive, tendency, denzin, now down here, his tendency to hold that kī-gyen-gyao is real, okay? His tendency to hold that things is real, which is thinking that kī-gyen-gyao is real. Okay, got it?

His tendency to hold things that are... to hold that things are real, which is holding that he himself is real. Okay?

Is... the shi-tsa means tsawa. Yeah, it's another way to say root, but it means the very root, or it's more, you know, boom.

You know, it's the... yeah, it's the root of the root. Root of the root is close, but I wouldn't translate it that way.

It's like the most basic root. Call it the most basic root, okay? Shi means foundation, tsa means root.

Shi-tsa goes together. It means the most basic root of... and the ultimate, the end, okay?

That's where the... the end of the end, okay? It's the end of the end of his tendency...

of the root of his personal samsara. Kyi-gen-gyao's root of the root of samsara for him, for kyi-gen-gyao. So, Sugeng's...

the most basic root of Sugeng's samsara, suffering, circle, is his tendency to hold that Sugeng is real. That's the most basic root of samsara. That's the most basic root of this Wheel of Life.

Okay? Yeah, and we know that link number one holds on to what? Me or...? Mine, okay? So, it looks okay. We know it's wrong because Kachik said it. The other guy said it.

It's like your wife, you know? Whatever they say is wrong, right? So...

or husband. Husband. So, we know it must be wrong somehow.

Okay? But we don't know how yet. And that's the...

a good Kachik should be close to something we would think. You know, a sloppy Kachik is like, forget it, it's just a stupid idea. But a good Kachik is something suddenly wrong.

And that's how Buddhists learn things in a scripture. They don't tell you. They tell you something suddenly wrong and they see if you can figure it out.

So, already this one's a little difficult. So, something like that. Dayimba.

Top. Yeah, I would go up. I think it's still Kachik.

Okay. Or still Kachik? Yeah.

We'll have to think about it. Let me go see who comes next. No, that's the end.

That's us, I guess. Okay. I believe it's us and you'll see why.

Okay? Because that's all the argument, that's all there is. Dayimba top.

Are you telling me that's correct? Oh, I'm sorry. Mayim.

It's not the root. Okay?

[Speaker 2]
Sorry.

[Speaker 1]
I'm sorry, my mistake. But still, it's going to get nasty. Okay?

He says that's not the root. Okay? And we say dayimba top.

Okay? This is the end of the argument, so it must be up. It must be going up.

It's us correcting him. Dayimba. Of course it is.

de korway tsar gyurpay marikpay tsawa kachik That is the root of the misunderstanding, which is the root of his samsara. So, what's the first day and what's the second day?

[Speaker 2]
That samsara.

[Speaker 1]
Wait, what's the first day?

[Speaker 2]
That view.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, good, that view. Yeah, that view is the root. That's the root of the misunderstanding, which is the root of his personal...

His day? So, what's the second day? Kigengyao.

Yeah. That view is that old dog's... root of his misunderstanding, which itself is the root of his samsara.

Okay, got it? It's the root of the misunderstanding, which is... Here's gyurpa past tense.

Became means is. Which is the root of his samsara, his personal... I like it.

I like that this author has been sensitive enough to say his samsara. But actually the day would probably modify the root. That's the root.

For him, that's the root of samsara. And, kashik, there's that A plus B. Kashik means A and B.

Split reason. Split reason. Kashik.

By the way, the phrasing is kashik. Say kashik. You stretch out the kang.

Kashik. And... First, I'm not loaning you the car.

Second, I'm... You know how your mom pauses. First, you came back home late.

And... Okay. And then he quotes Lekshay Nyingpo.

What's that? Yeah, that's Tsongkhapa's great book on interpreting the Buddha. When did the Buddha mean what he say?

And when did the Buddha not mean what he said? And why did the Buddha contradict himself? And that's a commentary...

Half of that is a commentary to...

[Speaker 2]
Sutra?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Sandhi. Nirmochana Sutra.

Nirmochana means to liberate. Sandhi means the true thought. Di, di is the root of think.

Omarubatana di, di, di, di, di, di, di. Okay, that's a think. And who else wrote a commentary on that?

Yuan Tzu.

[Speaker 2]
Yuan Tzu. Okay. Okay.

[Speaker 1]
We wrote the Chinese government security bureau about our idea. Let's see what they say. Did you send it in?

Okay. She took a break. KHO BA'I ZHIG RTZA THAG THUB MA LOG KYANG KHO BA LOG PA LUNG DI LA MIN RGYAL ZHES GSUNGS PA'I PHYIR ZHES GSUNGS PA'I PHYIR Now it gets controversial.

Okay. It's not contradictory. MIN RGYAL MIN RGYAL means contradictory.

Okay. It's not contradictory. There's two kinds of contradiction which we will study in Adam's text.

Adam's text later becomes... It stops talking about colors and smells, and it gets very complex, which is why we give it to him. But we'll study Gelwa.

We'll study the idea of Gelwa. There's two kinds of Gelwa. One is called pen simpang gel, which is all-inclusive opposites, like changing or unchanging, or color or not color.

That's called all-inclusive opposites, contradiction. And then the other is just two qualities which cannot stay in one place at the same time, and they always say utpa and jarok. Utpa means an owl, and jarok means a crow, and they don't like to stay on the same branch.

So it means with reference to a coffee cup, those two qualities are contradictory in one's place. But in general, they don't include everything in the universe. So there's one kind of Gelwa, which is exists or not exists.

It includes everything. And then there's another kind of Gelwa, which is just white color and black color or something. It can't be true with one basis.

Anyway, he says it's not contradictory. Now this gets very controversial, of course. korway shitsa tar tuk ma lo kyang You cannot stop the root of the root of samsara, and you can still stop samsara.

lung di la. Say lung di la. Heavy prenasal.

They don't say lug di la. They say lung di la. It sounds almost like NG.

Lung di la. In this system, that's not a contradiction. Okay?

You cannot stop the root of the root, but you can stop the root. You can stop samsara without stopping its ultimate root. Okay?

I think it may be something we could buy. Yeah, it's a Santantrika thing, but let's... I went and got you the quotation, and it turns out that normally when they say sum, it's a direct quotation.

But he has paraphrased Tsongkhapa, which is illegal to use sum.

[Speaker 2]
Okay?

[Speaker 1]
Now I ask you, is there ever a case when that's okay? Apparently. If you're talking tengyur, or kangyur, Tsongkhapa might use a different translation.

You see, which don't exist anymore. Those translations don't exist anymore. But Tsongkhapa might prefer someone else's translation.

Naktso, he often quotes Naktso's translations. But once you put something into a series of books, it's protected. You see, nobody can take out one of these.

These books are numbered sequentially, I assume. And you can't take out one book. Some people say, where's number 93?

We've got 92, we've got 94, but we don't have 93. So your books, your translations, and the DCI and the ACI works, I would like to put them in a series, which I think protects them. So then your translation becomes the standard translation.

So that's something we've got to talk about. Because I would like to sell subscriptions to that to help pay you guys. Which puts pressure on all of us to finish.

Or, you know, steal the money of all the faithful. Okay, so here it is. You want to read this?

I don't know, are you in the mood?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, sure.

[Speaker 1]
I'm just going to read it to you quickly, okay? Okay. DE LTAR NA CHOS NAM LA NGO BA LAS SKYES BU LUS BDAG PA RANG GI MTSAN NYID KYI GRUB PA BRDZIN PA'I PHYIR GYI DANG ZIN GYI JIG LTAR TSOR BA'I PHYIR PAR BSHAD NA They, he doesn't say who, they believe that the root, the root of jikta, the root of the me and mine misunderstanding, is PHYIR GYI DANG ZIN.

And by the way, there's your clue already. The root of holding me or mine to be self-existent is the tendency to hold things as self-existent. There's already your answer.

Do you get it? So for me to misunderstand, for Nick to misunderstand Nick, Nick must misunderstand Nick's parts. So now you have a root of a...

Yeah, you have a root of a root. For Nick, to misunderstand Nick is the root of samsara. It's the first link in the Wheel of Life.

But the root of that is for him to misunderstand his parts. Now is it possible for him to continue to misunderstand his parts but figure out that he's not self-existent? They say yes.

So the root of the root, the root of the root is for Nick to misunderstand his parts. But the root is for Nick to misunderstand Nick. So is it possible, for example, to become, at some level in your school, to get rid of the misunderstanding of Nick without getting rid of the misunderstanding of Nick's parts?

Yeah, so in this system, here, careful, lung di la. In this system, it's not a contradiction to say Nick got rid of his jikta, his tendency to misunderstand Nick, but he didn't get rid of the root of that jikta. shitsa tar tuk, the ultimate root of the root.

Ultimate tar tuk is very important here. lok means turn it back, stop it. So he said it's possible to stop samsara without stopping the ultimate root of samsara.

In this school. min gyel here?

[Speaker 2]
min gyel.

[Speaker 1]
min gyel means not contradiction. Yeah, yeah, no problem in this school. me yo wen ti.

There's no contradiction. And he leaves it at that. By the way, so I don't have to read you the rest of this.

Well, let's read it anyway. That choky dang dzin, he defines the tendency to think that Nick's parts are self-existent. He defines it here.

He describes it here. What is it? It looks at things, okay?

And it takes the basic nature and the features. So kyepar means features. And ngo means basic thing.

It takes the basic essence and the features which are attributed, which are coming from the mental seeds, right? It looks at those, okay? takpa.

But it believes that they exist by definition. rang gi tse nyi kyi. So it takes his parts, okay?

Things. Chö. In the division of people and things.

Things, people, things. Things, people, parts of things. Parts of people.

Called things, unfortunately. So it contradicts this one. How do you define that, Je Tsongkapa?

Nick misunderstands Nick's things, meaning his parts, right? When it looks at what is actually a labeled, a mental picture coming out of karmic seed labeled onto Nick's parts. And you can say the essence of Nick's parts are the features of Nick's parts.

And it holds them to exist by definition. Holding that is chö kyi dang dzin, is to believe that things are themselves. That is what it means to believe that Nick's parts are themselves.

Okay? And that's the root of the root. That's the root of...

That's the root of the root. Jigdak is the root, right? Jigdek tsawa means the root of the root.

Okay? What lies below the tendency for Nick to think that he's coming from his own side? When he looks at his hands, or his arms, or his legs, or his mind, he has this idea about...

Chö kyi dang dzin... I'm going to read the whole thing, I don't care. This is why we're going slower.

Chö kyi dang dzin kyi, that tendency to believe that the parts of a person are themselves, that tendency to believe that the parts of a person are themselves, is... functions chö, or provides chö, or acts as chö, the she.

[Speaker 2]
The root foundation.

[Speaker 1]
The foundation of the tendency to misunderstand the person. Okay? That tendency to misunderstand the parts of Nick provides chö, or acts as the foundation for the tendency to believe in himself, in the self, okay?

The person. Okay? Ni...

Uh... nge rang la chö kyi dang me tokpa me par shepay. This idea is accepted even by...

kyi kyang. This idea is accepted, chö, even by those Middle Way guys, those followers of the Middle Way, who believe... chö, there's another chö.

Okay? This idea is accepted by those Middle Way guys who believe that listeners and self-made Buddhas, two lower tracts, bodhisattva tract, self-made Buddha tract, listener tract, who believe that these two guys never perceive that the parts are not themselves. Okay?

[Speaker 2]
Got it?

[Speaker 1]
What's that imply? When he says, umapa nam, who believe that?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, it means there's Middle Way guys who don't believe that. Okay? It's a maingat.

Okay? So I'll say it again. The idea that for Nick to hold on to Nick's part, that Nick's parts are Nick's parts, okay?

It provides, acts as the foundation for his tendency to believe that he is himself. Believing his parts are himself acts as the foundation for his belief that he is himself. Okay?

That idea is also accepted, kyang kye, is also accepted by those Middle Way guys who assert, kye, that the two lower tracts, nyen tu and rang gyel, sometimes their name is shortened to nyen rang, this means listen self. But it means listeners and guys who are self-made Buddhists. But they're not Buddhists, they're self-made arhats.

So anyway, those two lower tracts of the three tracts, what's the higher tract? Bodhisattva tract, yeah. Those, they...

... So these Middle Way guys also believe that these two lower tract guys never perceive that the parts of Nick are not themselves. But can they achieve arhat?

Yeah. That the end of their tract is arhat. The end of the Bodhisattva tract is Buddhahood.

These two guys can go to arhat. Here on path number three they... they see emptiness, but which emptiness?

Yeah, of the person, but not of the parts of the person. Only this guy, the Bodhisattva sees both. Okay, and so he gets to go to Buddhahood.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, according to your school.

[Speaker 1]
We're wearing your hat. But these guys, they perceive that they are not themselves, but apparently they don't... these guys believe they don't perceive that their parts are not their parts.

Okay? Okay? Okay.

Why are we talking about all this stuff? Because that's a natural human tendency. And so they say that the more Dharma intelligence you have, the more proofs for emptiness you want to hear.

Tell me what the lower school thinks. Tell me what the lower school thinks. Why?

Because one day one of your students will think that, because the lower school thought it. Got it? That means there are people who could think that.

So you're going to run into students like that. Who said you could wear my tie? Just kidding.

It looks just like the one that Bea bought me. She was dressing me, and I said, you pick out the tie. Okay.

[Speaker 2]
Eric picked me out this one. Yeah. You know, Eric could do this.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Yeah, it's a woman's conspiracy.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
All right. Let's keep going on Tsongkapa because we didn't want to finish this translation anyway. ,DE LA NI CHOS KYI DANG ZIN ZAN NA, ,GANG ZAG GI DANG ZIN RDOG KYANG, ,CHOS KYI DANG ZIN MA ZAN NA, ,GANG ZAG GI DANG ZIN MI RDOG PA MIN PAS, ,DE LA CHOS KYI DANG ZIN Now, what do you think are the mu shi mu sum between stopping that tendency, those two tendencies?

If you stop one, do you have to stop the other? In that school. So let's take, I'll take the first mu.

Can you stop the tendency to think that you are yourself in this school without stopping the tendency to think that your parts are your parts? Yes. Can you stop the tendency to think that your parts are your parts without stopping the tendency to think that you are you?

Let's see. ,CHOS KYI DANG ZIN ZAN NA, ,GANG ZAG GI DANG ZIN RDOG KYANG, If you finish, ZAD means finish off, right? The word ZAD means for your shoes to wear out.

Okay? And this is past tense. Past, past.

,CHOS PA'I DBANG PO GSUM MED PA, Okay? If you're... If that tendency wears out.

If you stop the tendency to think that you are your parts, that your parts are your parts, if you stop the tendency to think that your parts are your parts, you must stop the tendency to think that you are you. That's easy. That's what you said.

Okay? Who can do that of the three tracks? Yeah, only Bodhisattvas.

In this school, in your school. Okay? By the way, when I say in this school, what's it imply about the higher school?

You have to do both. To get out of trouble, you have to do both. Okay, you can't do one without the other.

,KYANG, ,CHUG GI DANG ZIN MA SRED NA, But if you don't stop the idea that your parts are your parts, you... It's not the case that you can't stop... It's not the case that you can't stop your belief that you are you.

You can stop the tendency to think that your... part... Sorry.

Without stopping the tendency to think that your parts are your parts, it doesn't mean you cannot stop the tendency to think that you are you. Double negative. It doesn't mean you can't stop.

Okay? Without stopping the tendency to think that your parts are your part, it doesn't mean you can't stop the tendency to think that Chenchen is Shinten. You could, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Therefore, therefore, therefore, it is not a contradiction that you could fail to stop the ultimate root of samsara and still not get free from samsara.

[Speaker 2]
Still get free, right? No... It's not contradictory.

Yeah, and still get free.

[Speaker 1]
I'm sorry. Yeah, I'm sorry. It's not contradictory that you could fail to stop the ultimate root of samsara and still get free from samsara.

They didn't stop the tendency to think their parts are their parts, but they still got free of samsara. Who? These two arhats.

These two arhats. They are free from samsara. We already heard that they are free from the root of samsara, but not from the root of the root.

And it's not a contradiction to get free from the root of samsara, holding to me or mine, and not get rid of the root of the root. Holding to my parts are my parts. In this school.

Okay. In this school. Okay?

[Speaker 2]
So is there a danger in saying, ultimately, using that word?

[Speaker 1]
No, no. And we're going to get to it today. By the way, I encourage you guys to go to the DCI talk today, which is about the gaccha.

I'm teaching gaccha. Okay?

[Speaker 2]
So...

[Speaker 1]
I don't know, we have to negotiate it, I guess. I'll just let the... I think show up is more powerful.

Do you remember to text Scott right now? Just tell him I think it's important for DCIers. I mean, for translation people who go to the today's class.

It's gaccha. Ten o'clock. Ten to eleven.

Okay? I'm not going to go further, because it goes into my normally school, but we got the point already. By the way, as you will...

So, in your footnote, you should say, he's paraphrasing this paragraph, but the wording is not the same. korwa le duwa mingyalo. korwa lopa lug di la mingyalo.

See, he's changed the wording. K. Rup Tenpa Dargye has changed the wording, and he's attributed it to Lekshen Nyimbo.

And he put it in the format of a direct quote, but it's not, which is frustrating when you go look for it. Okay? But luckily you have your slave Gishin Michael to go find it for you.

Because I enjoy it. I enjoy finding them. It's like looking for a good wave when you're surfing.

Oh, yeah. So, my only comment about that is, if you're dealing with a Kangyur or Tengyur text, and it's somebody like Tsongkhapa, you can cut them some slack, because they might be quoting an alternate translation. But can you do it with Lekshen Nyimbo?

No. He's writing in Tibetan. You know?

You can't say it was another translation, because it's not a translation. You should have quoted directly. Got it?

If it was a Tengyur quotation, you could say, oh, maybe the guy had a different translation in his hand. Especially the early Tibetans, like Tsongkhapa. The books, the Kangyur Tengyur, were just translated by Bhutan Rinpoche 20 years before he was born.

You see, I mean, so there were still alternate translations floating around. So you can cut Tsongkhapa some slack when he says it's a direct quotation from the Tengyur, if it's slightly different. But you can't cut Kedrup Tenpa Dagye some slack when he's quoting Tsongkhapa, because Tsongkhapa's not translated.

[Speaker 2]
Right.

[Speaker 1]
So he's just... What I would say is he heard it in the debate ground, and it got passed on like that in the debate ground, from student to teacher, teacher to student. Okay.

All right, we're on to another... That was a tough one. That was a hard one.

That took me a while in the coffee shop. I'd encourage you to go to a coffee shop. It's a beautiful place to work.

,GAL ZHIG RNAM NAS, ,LEN BRAS KYI BRAL BA LA, ,MONGS PA'I MONGS PA YIN NA, ,MA RIG PA YIN PA'I KHYAB TSAN NA, Now, if something... MONGS PA, you gotta... We gotta talk about MONGS PA.

Say MONGS PA. MONGS PA. High tone.

Anytime you have a fourth column nasal, ,RNGA NYA RNAM MA, There's only four of them. ,RNGA NYA RNAM MA Very low tone. Very low tone.

,RNGA, ,RNGA, ,RNGA, ,RNGA, Only men can make this sound. ,RNGA, ,RNGA, ,RNGA, ,RNGA, But you put a head letter on it, or a prefix letter on it. ,RNGA, ,RNGA, ,RNGA, ,RNGA, ,RNGA NYA RNAM MA MONGS PA.

Okay, MONGS PA. So, MONGS PA means... Sometimes I translate it as dark ignorance, because MONGS PA means...

It has connotations of blindness, or darkness, or fogginess. ,MUG PA So, anyway... That's more like ignorance, so I would call marigba misunderstanding, and I would call mongpa ignorance.

Ignorance which is ignorant of, okay? Ignorance which is ignorant of the connection between karma and its consequences. I like to say consequences because it's more, it more implies a, an evil connection, yeah, heavy.

Yeah, len de. Not as, not as strong as if it had been ganden, open vowel, but it's still strong. Len de kyi dun delwa.

Okay, len de kyi delwa. Why is it important to get the pre-nasal straight on delwa? Yeah, without the pre-nasal it has the opposite meaning.

Okay, mm delwa means connected. Chalwa means disconnected. So here's a really good example when you're teaching Tibetan somebody, you say, look, you pronounce this wrong, you're saying the opposite, okay?

Chalwa means separated from. Yeah, okay. Len de kyi delwa.

Len de kyi delwa, yeah. Yeah, which means you have to slow down when you read. Make it nice.

You know, don't try to impress me by going fast and mispronouncing it. I would much rather see you go super slow, like slow ketchup, and you do it right, because then your speed will come. But if you do it wrong, it doesn't matter how fast, you'll never get better.

So just, I don't mind if you're like, len de ... I would prefer that, okay, when you're reading in class. Len de kyi delwa la mongpa.

You know, so if something is ignorant, if an ignorance, one form of ignorance, is ignorant about the connection between karma and its consequences, that's one kind of ignorance, then that's an ignorance. That's misunderstanding, sorry. If something is an ignorance, which is, meaning there's other kind of ignorance, right?

If something is an ignorance which is ignorant about the connection between karma and its consequences, then it must always be misunderstanding. Okay?

[Speaker 2]
Must always be.

[Speaker 1]
Okay? It is always. But it's important here to say a form of ignorance.

You can translate it as a form of ignorance, because it implies ... this adjectival clause implies that there's other ones. Okay?

SEMS NA. NYON DU BDAG ... Now, now it's going to be our counterexample.

We know two ... we know one thing already. He's ...

wrong. Okay? It's a kajig.

In this school he's wrong. Okay? And then, we know usually the first thing that comes next is the counterexample.

Oh, all liquids are orange juice. Oh, take this coffee. Okay?

You give a counterexample. You tell your wife, everything I ... everything I decide to spend money on is intelligent, and she says, well, let's talk about that boat you bought, that we never use.

Okay? Counterexample. NYON DU BYA CHUNG PA'I RGYU GYI LAS GNAS KYI BRAL BAR DRANG MO LA RANG RTOG GI RMONGS PA'I RMONGS PA BYAS PA CAN.

Let's consider the ignorance, which is ignorant on its own accord. This is a ... this is a special qualifier in Buddhist logic, and it refers to a mental function which doesn't have to rely on other mental functions to do what it does.

Okay? So, like, our emotions, RANG RTOG GI, relative to TSO SEM, relative to main consciousness, can they function without main consciousness?

[Speaker 2]
No.

[Speaker 1]
Okay? So, this one, it does. He's talking about an independent mental function that doesn't have to rely on the presence of attention, or memory, or other things.

Okay? Other mental ... it's not in a net of other mental functions.

In and of itself. Operating on its own. You could say operating on its own or something.

So, let's consider ignorance, which is ignorant of ... let's go there ... or which is ignorant of its own accord, about the connection between karma and its consequences, and two qualifiers.

A, it's trammel. The subtle form, and not the obvious form. The subtle form of ignorance about the connection between karma and its consequences.

And, it happens to be in the mindstream, in the mindstream of a listener, arhat. He's here. Sorry, he's here.

Yeah, he's at the end of the lowest track. Okay? He's still ...

what we learn here is that there does exist a lower arhat who still doesn't understand the connection between karma and its consequences at a very subtle level. He cannot tell you why the pattern on the wood here is turning to the right slightly. You know, he can tell you why your wife's yelling at you.

That's obvious. That's not subtle. You know, it's because you were yelling at somebody else at work.

But why this grain of wood, in our reality, at this time in the morning, is twisting a little bit to the right. A Buddha can say, you know, that's because you pushed somebody on the subway 2,000 lifetimes ago to the right. You know, and that's why this pattern in the wood is tending to the right a little bit.

Okay? But an arhat can't do that. So, that's called subtle ...

the subtle connections between what you did and the consequence you got, which its consequence is this little change in the wood. Okay? So, they can reach arhat here without understanding that.

They are still ignorant. They are still in the dark about that. Okay?

DAD PA. Are you telling me that's marika? Are you telling me that's misunderstanding?

Then he says, CI PHYIR. And we say, DE PHYIR. Because it is a kind of ignorance, which is ignorant about karma and its consequences.

It's a very subtle form of that, but it's still that. Okay? So, you can't say that all forms of ignorance about karma and its consequences are misunderstanding.

Because then he took an arhat, lower arhat. Does he still have misunderstanding? No.

Never. Nothing. Yeah, you cannot say that.

Because the implication is that's the first link. And he's out of the wheel. He got out of the wheel.

Got it? Okay? That's the idea.

That's where we're going. Okay? DE YOD PA'I PHYIR TE.

Because that kind of thing does exist. What? That kind of ignorance in the mental stream of an arhat.

Oh, that subtle misunderstanding, that subtle ignorance about a subtle form of karma and its results. Okay? DE RGYUD LA RGYUN DU GYI BDE BA PHRA BZHIN PHRA BZHIN PHRA LA MONGS PA'I MONGS PA'I YOD PA'I PHYIR TE.

Because those lower arhats still have, yeah, they still have ignorance, which is ignorance about that kind of ... PHRA BZHIN PHRA means really, really subtle. You use ...

literally, it's subtle and subtle. But in Tibetan it means really subtle. Okay?

Is this coffee good? Good and good. Yada Ya.

Yada Ya. Yada Ya. Mmm.

Mmm. It's getting better every day. It's just about ...

it's like jet lag. Just about the time we leave you, you'll be ... they'll have it ...

they'll be okay. Okay, now most sutras are named from the person who requested them. So in Sanskrit, Jigme, requested by, dee, dee, dee, dee, dee, you've translated about 400 of them, paripraksha, paripraksha, yeah, okay?

So oftentimes, most often, sutras are named by the person who... Most sutras happened in a Q&A, and someone asked a question and Buddha answered it, and then that became a sutra. So shubha means requested by.

But it's not really requested by, it's usually a question. How should we act? How should we think?

How should we focus? Who asked that question? Yeah, that's how the heart, the diamond cutter starts, yeah.

Somebody asked a question, Subuddhi asked a question. So who asked the question? In this case, I cheated and put it in English for you, Rahula, dra chen dzin, say dra chen dzin.

This is Rahula, and Rahula is believed to be a dark planet, and during eclipse, it passes in front of the... It's believed to eat the other planet for 24 hours or something. So it's called the eater.

So Rahula is supposed to be the dark planet, and it consumes the moon for 24 hours, and then the moon escapes. So anyway, that was Lord Buddha's son. He had one son before he left the palace.

And in Buddha's life, with his father, with his son, he was alienated from them, and then they patched it up. With his father, he had to go, after he died, he had to go teach him and then came back. The day he came back is a holiday.

So anyway, it means you might expect problems with your father as a parent. You go off to Arizona and study, and you're not there to take care of your parents. You're going to get some heat.

But later, they will say, oh, you were so smart. Now you're helping us. ma je dong tra la sok pa.

Things like... This tra means, tra tra means... This pattern here is almost tra tra on the table.

It means variegated. Like her blouse. Like Chen Zom's blouse.

That would be called tra tra. So the variegated, variegated pattern of ma je means a peacock, peacock. And dong, we had it in your text, right?

Your text. So it just means the pattern on a peacock's feather. It can also refer specifically to the eye on the pattern, that center circle.

And then things come out. gyu yi yewa jee nye pa. All of the possible divisions of causes.

So jee nye pa means however many there are. Yewa means divisions. Gyu means of causes.

All the possible divisions of causes. Now he's talking about karma, right? So, you know, this is...

Instead of talking about the grain of the wood, he's talking about the pattern on a peacock's feather. But we talked about the grain of wood. Same thing.

Same thing. Okay? The pattern on a peacock's feather.

You know, all the infinite—infinite might not be bad here—all the infinite variations of karma. gun khen minpay tok jang min. Somebody translate that whilst I have my coffee.

[Speaker 2]
It's going to be a slow coffee.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, I'm done. What'd you guys decide? There's a double negative here, by the way.

[Speaker 2]
He doesn't not realize all of them?

[Speaker 1]
I'll give you a clue. This means if you are not a... Oh, a Buddha.

Oh, kun khen. Yeah. Omniscient one.

It's not tok jang. Realized by you. Yeah, good.

Not something you can see. Not realized. Okay.

Non-kun khen. Yeah, if you're not... kun khen means Mr. Know-it-all. It means omniscient. Okay? Kun khen means knows everything.

Husbands are kun khen. Okay. If you're not a person who knows all things, you can't see it.

Why? These are subtle... The causes of subtle things in the world, like the colors of a peacock's feather.

The pattern on a peacock's feather. Okay? Yeah, good.

Yeah. The infinite variations on causes, karmic causes, are not something that you can see unless you're omniscient. Okay?

He used that lung, lung rig lung, as proof for saying that that arhat was still ignorant. Sorry. Yeah, was still ignorant, but he didn't have misunderstanding.

Because if he had misunderstanding, he'd still be in the Wheel of Life. Yes. Okay.

Now, is it true that all forms of link number one, all misunderstanding are link number one? Not really. But he's pushing it.

Okay. Now the other guy says, du, du means I agree. That was, he agreed to our sarcastic prasangika, our sarcastic statement where we said, are you telling me that's marikpa?

You said all forms of ignorance about karma and its consequences are misunderstanding. He didn't qualify misunderstanding. He just said, are misunderstanding.

And then the guy said, yeah, okay. It is a form of misunderstanding. They would say, no, it's not.

Now we're answering that. If you agree that it's a form of misunderstanding... By the way, I didn't remember what they were talking about.

I just looked ahead to see what the next sentence is. I saw, you know, like in Adam's text especially, you know, instead of trying to figure out what the tsawa was, tsawa du na, just look at the next line. You'll find out what it is according to this author.

Okay. So, he went back, he changed his story. In English, in American English, we say he changed his story.

Okay, okay. Okay, okay, I agree. It is a form of misunderstanding.

Then we say, nyen du dak chung pa chud ched, let's consider this listener arhat. Okay, let's take this listener arhat. kyi kyi gyur kyi gyun de, kyi drel wa drang mo, la rang thok gi mong pa'i mong pa de, ma rik pa mayin ba tha, ma rik pa mayin ba tha, what's that say?

ma rik pa mayin ba tha, Good. No, it's not misunderstanding. Then the rest is the same.

The ignorance, which is, the ignorance in his mind stream, which is ignorant on its own accord, about a subtle, the subtleties of the connection between karma. Here he says cause and effect. Okay.

He changed it a little bit. He didn't say len du. So you have to be careful when you translate it.

Here it says cause and effect before it said karma and effect, and cause and effect. de, ma rik pa mayin ba tha, No, it's not ma rik pa. That's not misunderstanding.

kyi ma rik pa, pang pe kang sa yin pay che, He gave up pangs, pangs, pangs, where are we? pangs, past tense. Okay.

He got rid of misunderstanding. He's a person, kang sa yin, he's a person who got rid of misunderstanding because he's a he's a gahag. He must have got rid of ma rik pa.

So now you learn another thing that in this school ignorance is not the same as misunderstanding. And that kind of works, right? If you didn't think about it you're not misunderstanding it.

Got it? You can be in the dark not know about something and not be misunderstanding it cause you, like I don't know about black holes cause I just don't know about them. So it's not that I misunderstand them.

I don't know enough to misunderstand them. I don't understand them either. Yeah, I don't know.

[Speaker 2]
No, I don't subscribe to that.

[Speaker 1]
You know. I will correct the Buddhist world. There's a fat guy in the bus.

The Buddhist world will have to move over for us. I think if you come up with a better translation which can be proven to be a better translation then eventually it will kill the other translations. Because more people will buy your book.

And it's just an Amazon thing. It's just an Amazon thing. You know, why?

Cause it's more understandable. I'll throw a more understandable translation into the ocean of translations and in ten years it will be the only one left. You don't know how many translations died when ACI came out.

We killed like a lot of them. The whole generation before Professor Thurman, which was Alex Wayman those all died. They're all gone.

You can't buy them. Herbert Gunther, these are gone. Because better ones came out.

[Speaker 2]
By the way, again, we're three minutes over.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, but we started late.

[Speaker 2]
Would you be sensitive to those at all? Like you might not translate margrekpa as ignorance just because they did but would you put it side by side for example with mongpa as ignorance?

[Speaker 1]
I don't get what you mean.

[Speaker 2]
Like margrekpa is better as misunderstanding. That's closer to what it means. But to have it side by side with mongpa which triggers a word that they're used to hearing as margrekpa.

[Speaker 1]
I don't know what you mean by side by side.

[Speaker 2]
Like because they're both in the same paragraph and using ignorance as something that's not margrekpa in the same sentence. Would you? Oh yeah, no I would.

I still would, yeah.

[Speaker 1]
I'm very bullheaded if you didn't notice. I'll go for what's correct and I'll let them deal with it. Maybe a footnote or explanation somewhere.

Yeah, maybe. You could say it makes more sense, as you can see here, it makes more sense to call mongpa ignorance and margrekpa misunderstanding. By the way, in Stanley's text, there will be a long discussion of why it's called misunderstanding.

And just to tell you, okay, which is the classic, locus classicus, this is the classical place where it's discussed is in Stanley's text, is they will say the first link in the wheel of life, especially Vasubandhu's commentary, the first link in the wheel of life is not like not knowing. It's misknowing. There's a long discussion.

It's not that you don't know the guy, it's that you hate him. You see? And he describes it as the opposite of friendship.

Lack of friendship could mean I never met the guy. But that's not the point. It's not ignorance.

It's not not knowing. It's actively misknowing. It's hating the guy rather than he's anonymous to you.

You see what I mean? Got it?

[Speaker 2]
I think it would make sense to put all that in the introduction. It could be.

[Speaker 1]
You could. But it's a very famous discussion, and they use friendship. They say if you say he's not my friend, ignorance, it could mean you haven't met him yet.

But when you say I hate his guts, that's the meaning of the first link. It's the opposite of understanding. You strongly hold that the pen comes from the pen.

It's not that you didn't think about it.

[Speaker 2]
Okay? The conflict that comes up for me then is that that sort of proves that the tension, the conflict is there in the word avidya. So does that ...

Sometimes that ambiguity, should it be preserved because it's always been there?

[Speaker 1]
No, because ... Yeah, I understand what you mean, but Vasubandhu, when he described avidya, was talking about avidya. Right.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, yeah, the ambiguity was there. Yeah, yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Not knowing. Yeah. I would rather have most people understand what it means.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, you'll have to use the avidya.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, yeah. Not knowing.

[Speaker 2]
It's not knowing.

[Speaker 1]
See the meaning? Not knowing can mean misunderstanding or never heard of.

[Speaker 2]
Black hole.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, anyway, here we go. Let's go ... Let me just say this sentence and we'll stop.

We'll stop on tsultrim. ,GANG PHYI RGYUD NA RE, ,BDAG BYANG BA YIN NA, ,NYON DUG TU RGYUD PA'I MA RIG PA BAM PA'I KHYAB BYANG, ,MA RIG PA BAM PA'I MA KHYAB ZER NA, Somebody says, if someone is an arhat, it must be the case. Khyab.

It must be the case that they have eliminated in themselves ... Some people don't like elimination because it can mean poo-poo, but I don't know. ...

gotten rid of. They have gotten rid of misunderstanding in the form of an obstacle to nirvana. They have gotten rid of misunderstanding in the form of an obstacle to nirvana.

But, what's he going to say next? It's not the case that they have given up misunderstanding. Yeah.

Okay. He tried to divide misunderstanding into the kind which is an obstacle to nirvana, and maybe there's other kinds. Okay.

And we're going to say no. We don't think so. Let's go, let me finish this.

This is so sexy. Okay, it's very short. It stops here, see?

It's just a couple lines. De'i khyabpa thao? No.

He has given up all forms of misunderstanding. You have to say he's given up misunderstanding in general. You can't say just a misunderstanding which would stop you from being an arhat.

He's given up misunderstanding. He's broken out of misunderstanding. You have to say that.

Why? Da chomba marikpe gong-e bup. Okay?

Gong-e bup. Gong-a means egg. Like a chicken egg.

Gong-a. Bup means that... What do you call that space inside an egg?

No, the space.

[Speaker 2]
The cavity.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, bup. It doesn't mean boop, okay? It means the cavity of an egg.

The... The cavity of an egg of misunderstanding, right? The cavity of the egg of misunderstanding.

They are broken out. Okay? So that's a common expression.

Not totally common, but that's a... They'll say they broke out of the egg of... They broke out of the eggshell.

Like a chicken... Like a baby chicken. They'll say they broke out of the eggshell of misunderstanding.

But... They broke out of the eggshell of misunderstanding, but... They are not capable.

Mi nupa. They are not capable. Drogpa means declaring the good word.

In Christianity they say, declare the good word, you know. Spreading. Nyanpa means that sweet sound that helps other people.

It means the bodhichitta message. The Mahayana message. So it's a common expression about lower arhats, down here.

They have broken out of the eggshell of ignorance, but they still can't... It's a bird out analogy. They can't sing.

They can't sing. They're too young to sing. You see what I mean?

They're too immature to sing that sweet song. Yeah. Drogpa means to spread news.

Kyabdrak is the modern Tibetan word for advertising. Drak. And it's related to the word for fame, obviously.

Like Drakpa Shudrup. So they cannot proclaim the sweet sound. They can't sing that sweet song that helps others.

Shen pen. Even though they have broken out of the eggshell of misunderstanding. Okay?

Got it? Right. Yeah.

They can't sing that sweet song yet. Oh, well, yeah. Yeah.

That's a good point. But... Well, how about we say in its entirety?

Or as a living example? Not as a living example. They can report it, right?

We know that. That's a good point. But...

Now let's take the opposite. Let's take the opposite. What's the opposite?

[Speaker 2]
Bodhisattva.

[Speaker 1]
No, with eggs and proclaiming.

[Speaker 2]
The bodhisattva has hatched the egg of...

[Speaker 1]
No. No. No, I mean two elements here.

Breaking out of the egg of ignorance, eggshell, and singing that sweet song. Now he says, what about the opposite? Yeah, good.

[Speaker 2]
Say the whole thing.

[Speaker 1]
But... Yeah, good. A bodhisattva who didn't reach tonglam.

[Speaker 2]
Okay?

[Speaker 1]
A bodhisattva who didn't reach the path of seeing yet. Okay? But...

There is a bodhisattva, Chandra Simba, who didn't break out of the boop of the egg of misunderstanding. Now you guys are going to remember this word forever. Okay?

They didn't break out of the boop of the egg of misunderstanding. But... Shen Peng and Yenpo Dro knew, they are capable of singing that sweet song which helps other people.

Peyton Chepa means, using this metaphor, there has been this statement by the Buddha. The Buddha talked about this metaphor. So don't tell me that there's an arhat who hasn't broken out of that egg.

Don't tell me you can still have misunderstanding and call yourself an arhat. But they don't understand the subtle workings of cause and effect. I don't care.

That's not what we call misunderstanding. That's not technically misunderstanding. It's ignorance, but it's not misunderstanding.

They don't know something, but they're not misunderstanding something. Got it? It's very cool.

No, I didn't say that. According to this school, which I'm not sure is correct, according to Prasangika, traditional Prasangika, somebody on the bodhisattva track reaches tsoglam by getting bodhichitta. I'm not sure that's possible, but that's the position.

It's accepted that some bodhisattvas, but it's still accepted in certain literature of our tradition, Kutumbakapa's tradition, that you see bodhichitta in a certain direct way after you see emptiness on a bodhisattva track. The one I would assert is primary is accepted, but not emphasized. Normally, the normal teaching on the five paths is that on the bodhisattva track, you reach the first path by getting bodhichitta.

Then I asked Rinpoche, why so radically different? In the two lower schools, it has to be a personal tragedy. Then in the higher school, you have to suddenly jump to caring for every living person.

What's the point? How can that be parallel? He said, you're seeing the personal tragedy of every living being.

It's very beautiful. He had a very beautiful, his immediate answer. He said, you're seeing the personal tragedy of every living being.

Very powerful.

[Speaker 2]
So in that way, what level does the bodhisattva see emptiness directly?

[Speaker 1]
Third path, highest track. Now, if you want to get fancy, there's a subject called Gendun Nyushu, Sangha 20. Sangha 20, and it discusses can you get this far here and change your mind and go up here?

Can you get this far here and jump to here? Can you go here? Can you go here, here, and then here?

There's 20 combinations, and that's a whole subject. There's a whole book about that called Gendun Nyushu. We're not studying that yet, but I've never translated it.

It'd be interesting for someone to work on it. Okay, ready? Aski Pukhi Dushi Methojam Rira Lingshi Nyinde Gembadi Sanghe Shingdu Mite Uvargi Jokun Namda Jokun Namda Jokun Namda Jokun Namda Jokun Namda Jokun Namda Jokun Namda Jokun Namda Alright then.

Sexy. You thought your text was boring, but now it's getting really sexy. By the way, I mean, that's a beautiful thing to take in the debate ground, because it's so contra— he didn't solve the problem.

He just said, Buddha talked about this egg thing. And you're like, yeah, but does that apply to all kinds of misunderstanding? It's still a debatable thing.