Классика Алмазного огранщика: Нижний Срединный путь — Анализ зависимости, занятие 8

[Speaker 1]
Okay, let's go. Since you can read, you might as well read so I can criticize you.

[Speaker 2]
Okay. Sadhu, Sadhu, Sadhu, Sadhu, Sadhu, Sadhu, Sadhu, Sadhu, Sadhu, Sadhu, Sadhu, Sadhu, Sadhu, Dakhi chen yin gyi phe sunam ki, Chok la phen chir sang gye gyur par shok. Okay, read please.

Kuchipa nare, Kuchipa yin na, Gyur gyi gyur lang, Nam ne phe khyap sar na.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, anybody want to take a shot?

[Speaker 2]
Come on.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. And then, don't forget gyur is the third person, personal pronoun. If something is a shepa, not sheja, not sheja, shepa, yeah, if something is consciousness, then it cannot have an I in its mental stream.

Okay, if something is a consciousness, it cannot have an I in its mental stream. Okay? Now that's supposed to be wrong.

[Speaker 2]
Hmm.

[Speaker 1]
Uh, you can say that. You can say it that way, but it has to be. You can just say it has to be.

It must be. Okay, guess whose shepa we're taking. Come on, you guys are stupid.

Yeah, the old dog, the whiskers, the old whiskers dog. Not Phil, okay? It's a different one.

Dare tell. Are you telling me he doesn't have a... an I in his mental stream?

Why? Understood why between here. How do you say it in Tibetan?

Cicir. In between here, there's a cicir. Then we say, because it's a shepa.

It's a consciousness. Okay? Uh, yeah.

Then if he agrees that he doesn't have an I in his mental stream. Okay? If you agree he doesn't.

Oh. Dang. Hang on, I got...

This one's too good to pass up. How many kisses is that? Okay.

Uh, he does... If you agree he doesn't have an I in his mental stream. Come on, you're my Taoman.

Just take a shot, if you've got a 50% chance. Shenten, should we go up or down? If you agree he doesn't have a...

Yeah, Tao? Yeah, he does. Yeah, he does.

Kigengao shegyu la. In the... Now he changed it slightly, okay?

He changed it to shegyu from gyu, okay? Here it was gyu. And now he changed it to shegyu.

So he's... So he's changed the statement of the chechen and the tak. So it's legal.

He added a single syllable. Okay? So he does have an I in his mental, mental stream.

He just changed the... He's just trying to make it nice. Okay.

Why? Because there is, there does exist a nga, an I, which is taken in by. Okay, dupa means taken in and then it requires the by here.

Ki means by. Taken in by the mental stream of the old dog.

[Speaker 2]
Okay?

[Speaker 1]
Okay? Which doesn't help us at all. He just says he has one because he has one taken in by.

Okay, hopefully he'll say something more. Nope, he just stopped. All right, thanks a lot.

All right, this is gone. Kacik nare, please read.

[Speaker 2]
Kacik nare. Dupa den... den...

denpa...

[Speaker 1]
Prinil.

[Speaker 2]
Zinpe. Denzin... Nine.

Denzinkorpe.

[Speaker 1]
Korwe.

[Speaker 2]
Korwe. Wa...

[Speaker 1]
Zawa.

[Speaker 2]
Ah, zawa.

[Speaker 1]
Serna. Kacik nare. Now this is, this one's kind of more, you know, pressing for us.

Ah... What's a bumba?

[Speaker 2]
Water pitcher.

[Speaker 1]
Water pitcher. Okay. The tendency...

the tendency to hold that a water pitcher is real. Okay? That state of mind which is holding that a water pitcher is real.

Okay? The state of mind that believes a coffee cup is real is the root of samsara, real of life, really. Okay?

Okay? Isn't it correct?

[Speaker 2]
No.

[Speaker 1]
Why not?

[Speaker 2]
It's a thing.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, it's an outside thing. And by the way, we're going to get in next text, I think it is. Or somebody's text today.

This one lies at the root of that. But it's not... It's the root of the root, but it's not the root.

To believe that mixed parts are real is what causes you to believe that Nick is real. But the root of samsara is the second one. And the other just supports it.

Okay, that's an old Tsongkhapa point. All right. Onna, well then, korwe tsawa la...

dzin tang, you got to learn this word. Dzin tang. Important for the study of Middle Way, for emptiness.

Tang can mean... You know how horses have different... there's a gallop, and then there's a trot, and then there's a gait, canter?

And they're all called tang. So it's like the way you do it. Okay?

Here it's the way you dzin. Yeah, the way you hold the object. Like how do you think of the pen?

Do you think it's coming from the pen, or do you think it's coming from you? That's called dzin tang. How do you hold the...

How do you think of the pen? It's called dzin tang. And in the study of emptiness, it's a very important word.

Say again? Yeah, here it's a noun. So are you telling me...

Okay, this is sarcastic. Now it's time for shinten. Go down.

Yoratao. Yoratao. Are you telling me that the root of samsara can have two inconsistent ways of holding its object?

Okay, are you telling me that the root of samsara can hold its object in two contradictory ways? Inconsistent ways. For example, if I...

If I tell you the root of samsara is to think of the pen the wrong way, and you say, okay, then how do I think of the pen? Oh, if you think it's coming this way, it's the wrong way. Now, he's saying, are you telling me that the root of samsara is to think that the pen is coming this way and this way?

Because these are inconsistent. You can't believe both. You can't...

Does the root of samsara, which is misunderstanding, hold its object in two inconsistent ways? Okay? Which is not possible.

Okay? But we're accusing him of that. That's a necessary consequence of saying that misunderstanding a water pitcher is the root of samsara.

Okay. I don't know. Let's see.

So, at some point, you guys will all go, ah, all our texts tie together. Okay. They forget whose text you're in.

It's just all one big honey ball. Okay. You are.

BUM PAR DENG PAR DZIN PA'I DENG DZIN DE YANG KHOR BA'I TSAL RANG YIN Why? Because the belief in reality that holds a water pitcher to be real... Okay, that's how you translate this.

The belief in reality that holds that a water pitcher is real is the root of samsara. And the wrong idea, tokpa, which holds that the person is substantial in the sense of self-standing is also the root of samsara. Therefore, you must be telling me the root of samsara has two different ways of looking at things.

Okay? Because the root of samsara is to look at the person as though they can stand on their own. But now you're adding to hold that the water pitcher is real.

Okay? So... Yeah, we're criticizing him.

So you must be saying that the root of samsara is schizophrenic. It's got two different things going on. One, it thinks that things are real.

And then two, it thinks that the person is self-standing. Substantial. So you must believe that the root of samsara is schizophrenic.

It's got two states of mind going on at the same time. Got it? Okay.

Just nod your head. Now, I want to talk about kangshik. Kangshik is worth half an hour.

Okay? Yeah. Kangshik, with a comma after it.

By the way, a comma is not allowed directly after a G, so it has to be spaced. Because it would look like... It would look like a different letter.

So anyway, kangshik means Mom, why can't I borrow the car? First of all, you came home late last time. Second of all, you don't drive very well.

You have to get used to this because you've got to tell your kids soon. So a split reason. There's a kangshik in between.

Okay? So kangshik, you always translate it with one, blah, blah, blah, blah, and two, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it's useful to put the number one and the number two in the English because we might attack the first part or we might attack the second part and it's nice to help the reader and tell them there's two parts to this reason, which is what we call a split reason.

You know, why can't I borrow the car? First, you came home late last time. Secondly, you don't know how to drive very well.

Okay? Now he, the kid may attack both reasons or one reason, you know. So it's better to call reason number one half of reason number one than reason half number one and reason half number two.

Okay? So kangshik is always that. Well, mostly.

Especially if it's between two things. Okay.

[Speaker 2]
It always identifies the first part of the two parts, right?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, and I'll tell you why you want to put a one for somebody. It's actually going to go here, you see. There's going to be a one and there's going to be a two here.

You see. And that's going to help the reader because this reason is so long. The first half of the reason is so long and it seems to have two parts of its own.

So they might get confused. So you split it for them. Okay, you split it for your reader.

Number one, you said misunderstanding a water pitcher is the root of samsara and we all agree that misunderstanding a person and thinking they're self-standing is the root of samsara. Okay? First part of the reason.

Second part of the reason, and because they look at things in a different way. The way they look at things is inconsistent with each other. Mitten.

Mitten. Okay. What's ten mean without the M?

Without the M. We only had it 30 times. Session.

Yeah, session. Whose book is it going to come in?

[Speaker 2]
No, Seiji's.

[Speaker 1]
Seiji's got 11 tens in his book. The Lama gave 11 sessions of teaching. Okay, anyway.

With an M it means in harmony and a negative means they conflict. These two viewpoints conflict. Why?

The flavor of one is it's real. The flavor of the other one is it's standing on its own. So the dzintang is different.

How they view their object is different. And in fact, they're mitten. He didn't say gyawa.

He didn't say exclusive. He didn't say they contradict each other completely. But he said, come on, they're not...

they don't really... How do you say? In English.

Please say in English. They don't really get along with each other. They're not enemies.

They're not a contradiction. If you have one, you can still have the other. But come on, it's a little...

getting too crowded in there.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Alright. Okay. So I'm going to take out those numbers because they go in the English and not in the...

My lama used to get very angry if I added anything to the Tibetan. Okay. Alright.

Chirpe. Chirpe means he's going to say because the first one holds its object as real, the water pitcher, and the second one holds its object as being substantial, self-standing, and because they don't really... What do you call that in English?

They don't really mesh with each other. They don't really mesh with each other. Now, when you see a te after a chir, and then you got a chir down there, he's just going to say, you can't borrow the car because last time you came home late and you can't drive very well because you were kissing your girlfriend and you tend to look out the side window.

So you proved the proof. He's going to prove the proof. Yeah, yeah.

Now he's going to prove what he said before. Okay. You came home late because you were kissing your...

You see, you give a reason for the reason. Okay. And you can go and keep doing that forever, especially with a teenager.

Okay. How old are you kids?

[Speaker 2]
Eighteen, seventeen.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, see? I knew it. Okay, the fourteen-year-old is going to join pretty soon.

DE NYID KYI GZHAN YUL GYIS STONG PA'I DAG MED Now, this is a very difficult phrase. Get used to it. Deal with it now in your career, and you won't have to worry about it later.

Okay. Let's go backwards. DAG MED In Sanskrit?

In Sanskrit? An-atman. Long A.

Second A is long. First A is short. An-atman.

Okay, an-atman. Okay, an-atma. The lack of a cell, which is the emptiness, okay, of the GZHAN YUL.

Okay, so we have to talk about GZHAN. You had GZHAN in GZHAN PASHIDDHA. It was a lojong.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, the four attachments?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, freedom from the four attachments. So, GZHAN PA means to be attached to something. And it can mean a personal feeling also, you know, like if you're really attached to some person or something like that.

And it kind of means too much. Okay, a little bit too attached to somebody. Okay, it's called GZHAN PA.

Okay, GZHAN PA. In philosophy, it refers... So, there's all these specific emptiness terminology.

Vocabulary. We just had GZHAN DANG. How does it hold this object?

And now, GZHAN YUL means the thing you believe is there. The thing you believe is there. What's the implication?

[Speaker 2]
That it's not there.

[Speaker 1]
That it doesn't exist. Yeah, she thinks I don't like her, but she's wrong. Then, me not liking her is a GZHAN YUL.

She perceives it, but she's wrong. Okay, it's a fantasy object. So, GZHAN YUL means the thing you think is there.

And in English, you accent the think. The thing you think is there. And then we know it's not real.

In English, when you say the thing you think is there, it means, you know... Yeah, it's not that I came home late, honey. I was buying you a birthday present.

So, don't think I was out with somebody. That's a GZHAN YUL. That I was out with somebody is a GZHAN YUL.

It's a false object of your imagination. So, that's what GZHAN YUL means. GZHAN YUL GYI STONG PA is emptiness.

And in English, you use the... In Tibetan, you use the instrumental. It is empty by.

In English, we use the genitive. Empty of. So, in Tibetan, you have to use the genitive.

It is empty by what you thought was there. Empty by means what you thought was there is not there. Okay?

What is emptiness? The absence of the GAK CHA. Okay, GAK CHA means the thing you think is there, but it's not there.

Yeah, you need to use the instrumental in Tibetan. Before STONG PA, you have to use the instrumental. In English, you use the genitive.

His mind is empty of thoughts. Okay? In Tibetan, you have to say his mind is empty by thoughts.

Okay? Okay, sorry. Okay, so this is cool, and this really helps you teach DCI to somebody, you know.

The world is empty of coming from itself. Okay? Coming from itself is the GZHAN YUL.

It's what people believe, and it's wrong. So, what does emptiness mean? Something is not there that you thought was there like a credit card when you go to the restaurant, and you realize you changed your pants, and the credit card is not there.

But what do we say about the credit card in DCI? Yeah, it's a discover card. It doesn't work anyway.

I have it. I use it all the time. I try to.

Okay? To make the example perfect of going to the restaurant, emptiness means you thought something was there. That's the first thing.

So, okay, I thought my credit card was in my pants, but I changed my pants before I went to the restaurant. Then I look for the credit card, but it's not there. Okay?

That's a kind of emptiness. But to make the example complete, you have to say, and it's an expired credit card. You see, it doesn't work anyway.

Even if you had worn the same pants, it wouldn't have worked anyway. So the gagja, the shengyu, doesn't even exist. Okay?

It doesn't even exist. And in this case, what are the two shengyus? Come on, come on.

Let's start with the... A water pitcher which is... Real.

Good. A water pitcher which is real is the first shengyu. And this water pitcher is empty of that because it's not real.

Okay? And the person who is... Substantial in the sense of being self-standing.

Okay? You be careful. Your text says...

Her text says something different. Her text says, tak chig rang wan chen. Your text says, rang kya thukpay jey ya.

Substantial in the sense of self-standing. Substantial in the sense of self-standing. He makes it in a positive.

Substantial means self-standing. Okay, her text says they are different, singular, self-standing, and unchanging. Yeah, okay, that's your text, but it's the same stuff.

Okay, so, DE NYID KYI GZHAN YONG GI LTOR MI DANG NYID PO DE MI THUN The lack of a self-nature, which those two have, as their object that they focus on, is also different. One is the absence of one thing, the other is the absence of another thing. So not only are the dzinthangs not mesh, the two selflessnesses don't mesh either.

Got it? Okay? What are the two dzinthangs?

First one holds the water pitcher to be real, and holds people to be substantial, in the sense of being self-standing. So the dzinthangs are different. How they hold their object is different.

But also the thing they think they see is different. Okay? One sees real, one sees self-standing.

So not only do the two modes of perception disagree, or they don't really get along, but the two emptinesses are not the same kind of emptiness either. MI THUN PA'I PHYIR TE GANG ZAG GI DAM PAS DRAM BO DANG PHYIR GYI DAM PAS DRAM MO NYIN RGYAL BA'I PHYIR Now he says something pretty radical. Subtle.

What's tramo mean?

[Speaker 2]
Subtle.

[Speaker 1]
Very subtle. Tramo. They go like this when they say tramo.

Tramo. Okay? When a Tibetan talks, they're like, tramo, tramo, tramo, tata, tramo, tramo.

Okay. So this is the subtle lack of a self to the person, and the subtle lack of a self to things. In the classical division into person and things.

Okay? Okay. Now, what he's implying here is that, now he says gyawa, now he got strong.

He says they're contradictory. No one thing can be both. He didn't just say MI THUN PA'.

He didn't just say MI THUN PA'. Now he's getting harder. He says gyawa, gyawa.

The emptiness of a water pitcher, and the emptiness of a person, are contradictory. No one thing can be both. That's what contradictory means in Buddhism.

You cannot find a MI THUN PA'. One thing which incorporates both qualities. There's no such thing.

No one thing has the emptiness of the self and the emptiness of things at the same time. No one thing has both. You're either one or the other.

Okay? Especially subtle. Especially the subtle versions.

Okay? Got it? You okay?

So what he said was, the two emptinesses, which are really no-self, are not consistent with each other, because subtle lack of a self to people and the subtle lack of a self to things are gyawa. They're contradictory. Nothing can be both.

Nothing can be both. What's the nothing here? I'll give you a clue.

Yeah, the root of samsara. See, the root of samsara is one thing. It can't be both.

You better tell me which one you want. You know? Is it holding to the subtle self-existence of a person, or is it holding to the subtle self-existence of things, because it's not both?

What do you think? Which is the root of samsara? You see, you have two choices.

You have two choices. Either the root of samsara is to misunderstand yourself, or the root of samsara is to misunderstand a parent. That's more clear, right?

Ah, that's greasy, yeah. He went outside, didn't he? He went to water pictures.

It's a trick, yeah. No, he was fair. He didn't say your finger.

That would have been harder. That would have been harder. But he went to outside things.

It's a little easier, yeah. Finger, you would have a debate. Wait till we get to his text.

Gyatso J quotes some couple, by the way.

[Speaker 2]
These two here, what does it mean? Things?

[Speaker 1]
Oh, things in the classical division of things into things and people. Yeah, when you see a kanza, parallel, see, there's a parallelism. Ki dakme tamo, ki dakme tamo.

And if you see a parallelism, and they're put on the same level, it must be things split into people and things. And these things, as Word pointed out, is really the parts of a person. But it also includes the parts of a person.

This is part of you right now. It's part of your world. Especially since the here and now is the only thing that exists.

No, that's a viewpoint his text had yesterday. Non-Buddhist, non-Buddhist. And the result of that text was we were supposed to drink beer and have fun.

I didn't want to mention that.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, his wife is here.

[Speaker 1]
No, there was a non-Buddhist argument then. There's no future lives, so just have fun. Okay, dom-mi-nu-te.

You can't agree back here. There must have been a tel. When you see dom-mi-nu-te, you got to go back to a tel.

Somebody find me a tel. Oh, now you agree that the root of samsara has two different ways of holding its object. Okay, now the guy is getting desperate, right?

By the second half of the proof, he's getting desperate. Okay, okay, I agree. The root of samsara has two different ways of looking at things.

Okay, dom-mi-nu-te. korway tsa-wa-la, jin-tang-mi-tum-pa-nyi-me-pa, tsen-den-gi shung-le, sung-be-chir. Okay, because shung, the classics, the classics, you know, meaning Tsongkhapa and Buddha, really.

Maybe some negarjuna. Because the classics, tsen-den means authoritative, authoritative. tsen-ma-dan-den-pa.

Okay, praman-ne-tik, praman-ne-tik, meaning authoritative. Authoritative? Authentic.

Authoritative or authentic. Authoritative. The authoritative classics state that the root of samsara does not have me, two different ways of looking at its object.

Okay, two different ways of holding its object. Okay. Yeah, now, you know, he kind of bailed out, didn't he?

He went from rik to lung. Yeah, he went lung-rik. Two acceptable ways to prove something in a Buddhist argument.

Number one, use logic. Number two, quote somebody. That can't be right because no smart person in Buddhism would have said that.

That's not a very satisfying proof, but we have to accept it.

[Speaker 2]
Okay. Even though it's not really a quote? I mean, it doesn't say what it is.

[Speaker 1]
No, it's lung. It's lung. It's lung.

Because the next thing, the shen-luk would say, okay, tell me which shung, which classics, and then he'll have them ready. Okay. Yeah, now, in a debate, when you forgot the classics, you can say this, and hope that the other guy doesn't ask you this one.

Okay. Shenyang. Shenyang means he's changing tack.

He's changing direction. He's going to... You know, anyway, moreover, okay, moreover, then he's going to attack the guy from a different viewpoint.

Same argument. We're still in the same argument. Nyen tu dak chok ma.

Yeah, an arhat on a listener track. An arhat on a lower track. Not a bodhisattva, okay?

Why are they called listener? Yeah, they can listen to the bodhisattva teachings, but they can't practice them. And they can even report them to others, but they can't practice.

They don't want to practice. So, they're called listener. Now, just so you know, the word listener in Buddhist scripture is sometimes used in a more general sense as any disciple.

So, sometimes bodhisattvas are listeners. Okay, it can mean dulja. Nyen tu can mean dulja.

So, be careful. Be careful. When you're in a sutra especially, be careful.

It's not talking about listener track. It's talking about anyone who's listening to a teaching. So, be careful.

When you hit it, be careful. So, a lower arhat. Lower here just means...

I mean, in some points of view, it's that he doesn't have bodhichitta. In some points of view, it means he doesn't understand emptiness completely. You're in the lower middle way.

They would say that listeners don't understand emptiness completely. They understand no self. It gets complicated.

Yeah, they would... You see, we distinguish the three tracks, mostly bodhichitta, but they distinguish the three tracks by do they understand the lack of self to a person and to things, and do they understand the gross one or the subtle one, and then that divides them. But we'll get there.

Shen Yong, moreover, let's take a listener arhat. Are you telling me he or she has not eliminated the root of samsara completely? tsawa ne ma pang korway.

I'm sorry. Now, tricky thing here, okay? This doesn't say korway tsawa.

It says korway, tsawa ne. Korway, pause, tsawa ne. Okay, so don't get confused.

I did just now, okay? Korway tsawa means the root of samsara. Take out the apostrophe I.

See, I'll show you the apostrophe I. It's up here for example. Here.

Here it is right here. Okay, so now it doesn't say root of samsara anymore. It says, Are you telling me that a listener arhat has not eliminated samsara from its root?

Okay. Okay, so you have to pause between these two. It's not root of samsara anymore, and if you read it that way, you'll get in trouble.

Are you telling me that an arhat on a listener track has not eliminated samsara from its root? Okay, so he changed the sentence.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Why? Okay, by the way, we went down or up? Down, yeah, it's sarcastic.

Okay, so you're telling me an arhat hasn't abandoned samsara, right? Hasn't gotten rid of samsara, right? You're telling me that, right?

Then the guy says what? What's the guy saying? Yeah, teach him.

Why you say that? Okay, understood teacher here. Okay.

And we'll add it to the English translation in italics. BUM PA DANG PO BRDZIN PA'I BRTAN ZIN KHOR BA'I RTZA BA YIN PA GANG ZHIG What's that GANG ZHIG?

[Speaker 2]
Oh, the split reason? Split reason.

[Speaker 1]
Split reason. Okay. Here's the end of the reason at CHIR.

Somebody want to go deeper and tell me what the CHIR DE CHIR means?

[Speaker 2]
There's another reason for the reason?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, a reason for the reason. So a reason for the reason is coming, but we're not going there yet. Let's just go back to the split reason.

First part of the split reason is... They think water coffee cups are real. Yeah, because you said, you said the tendency to believe, the tendency that, the tendency to hold to things as real which holds to the water picture as real, okay, you have to translate it like that.

The tendency to think that things are real which holds to the water picture as being real, okay, is the root of samsara. According to you, misunderstanding the water picture is the root of samsara. I mean, according to you.

And... Okay, that's why you can't take the car. And...

And... DE'I BUM PA DER PA'I DANG GI DANG GYI MA BAM PA'I PHYIR TE And now, here's something, we finally learned something new. And...

DE'I... That arhat, okay? That...

That ja chomba, that arhat, has not eliminated the tendency to think of a water picture as being real. So you learned something. What did you learn?

In this school.

[Speaker 2]
Right.

[Speaker 1]
Which means they have, they have eliminated GANG SOK GI DANG ZIN THAMO But they haven't eliminated CHOD KYI DANG ZIN THAMO Okay? They haven't eliminated the most subtle forms of believing that outside things are real. But they're still an arhat.

[Speaker 2]
Oh.

[Speaker 1]
They reached arhat. But lower. Oh.

Yeah, lower.

[Speaker 2]
Which one has he eliminated?

[Speaker 1]
Only about people.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, but not...

[Speaker 1]
Subtle... He's perce... We should say it this way.

He has perceived the subtle lack of a self to people, but he has not perceived the subtle lack of a self to things. In the classical division, into people and things. Okay.

Got it? So that... But that's a lower viewpoint.

Okay? That's a lower middle way viewpoint. No, I think it's okay.

I mean, it is true that when you see emptiness for the first time directly, you will see the emptiness of Sugong. You will see the emptiness of Shintanz. You will see the emptiness of Jigme.

It's always your own emptiness. Okay? And there's something profound there about stopping misunderstanding about yourself stops the wheel.

You see? Link number one. We said it had to be focused on...

Self. Mainly on myself. Yeah.

Or me or mine. So when you see the lack of that self to Sugong, when you see it, you broke your wheel of life. You shut down your wheel of life.

It's cool. And then... then you can become an arhat.

[Speaker 2]
Okay? But why don't you automatically then see?

[Speaker 1]
Oh, why don't you automatically see? There's a big bitter argument about it. Probably the higher schools would say you do.

Okay, we're in the lower school. We're in the lower middle way. And the result of the lower middle way is you hear many more arguments about emptiness which is supposed to be attractive to an intelligent person.

An intelligent Buddhist disciple is supposed to be defined as being interested in the different ways you can misunderstand emptiness. And you get more in this school than you get in the Prasangika. Okay?

So it's kind of like... sort of like a little candy store of wrong views. Subtle, subtle wrong views.

Okay, here we go. So, first of all, you said the Rudra Sansara is holding the water pitcher to be real. And this person, this arhat, has yet to give up holding a water pitcher as real.

Meaning that, according to you, they haven't given up the Rudra Sansara. Okay? Now, reason for the reason.

Okay, reason for the reason. De. De.

Because... Now, this is a good reason. If it's correct, it's a good reason.

Because the tendency to think that a water pitcher is real is not a nyen drip, it's a shi drip. Okay? So, drip means obstacle to a spiritual goal.

Drip means obstacle to... It also means shadow. Drip ma means shadow.

And I can tell you a dirty joke later about it. To the boys. We had enough bad stuff yesterday.

So, drip ma means spiritual obstacle. And there are classically two kinds. Somebody tell me.

Yeah, obstacle to arhat, obstacle to nirvana, and then obstacle to a Buddhahood. So, nyen drip. And it's...

The words are inconvenient because they are based on different things. Nyen drip means an obstacle which is a mental affliction. Shi drip means an obstacle too omniscient.

So, in the first case, the name is the obstacle. In the second case, the name is where the obstacle prevents you from going. So, it's not parallel.

[Speaker 2]
And it's frustrating.

[Speaker 1]
Shi drip ma? No, not really. Shi ja kun khen me drip ma.

Okay. So, anyway. Now, in this school, that's an obstacle to Buddhahood, not an obstacle to arhat.

So, if it's an obstacle to Buddhahood and not an obstacle to arhat, you can reach arhat and not get rid of it yet. Okay, got it? Okay, got it?

Then it's logical to say the arhat didn't get rid of it yet because if he did get rid of it, he'd be a Buddha. Okay, so if it's true that the tendency to think a water pitcher or a pan is real is an obstacle to Buddhahood and not an obstacle to nirvana, then an arhat on the lower track still has that obstacle. But therefore, you cannot call that obstacle the root of samsara because arhats have given up the root of samsara.

Cool? No, and you know, no, and you got to go to the dollar store with a hundred dollars. You're going to be...

I'm going to make you give a teaching in Buddha Buddha. No, and you get up and, you know, here's a hundred people who don't know anything. And then you got to decide how much of this you're going to confuse them with.

And can you DCI this stuff? Can you DCI this stuff? DCI means turn it into something they can understand, something they can use.

You know, that's the goal of DCI. Can you take this stuff and... Can you take these rocks and make them into popcorn?

You know? And that's the goal of DCI. And that's why 6,000 people came to a DCI program in the last tour.

And there's 10 or 12 in this room. You see? It's different.

You got to DCI this stuff. And that means a lot of time spent at home talking to Shinten, you know. How are we going to DCI this stuff?

How are we going to Starbucks this stuff? Okay. Madhumna, if you don't agree to my reason and my reason for my reason, okay, Madhumna, Thap Madhu, no.

Now, first he gives his counterexample, or his example. So, BUM PA CHE DROD CHEN, let's talk about this water vase. ,GYUR BSTAN PA BRTZON PA'I BRTAN ZIN GZHIG RAB YIN PAR BRTAL, Yes, it is true that the tendency to believe it is real is a shaded, because it exists.

Give me the khyaba. Give me the khyaba. Khyabalok.

Khyabalok. No, no. If something exists, then the state of mind which holds it to be real is an obstacle to Buddhahood.

[Speaker 2]
Right, right. If something exists, then the state of mind holds it to be real.

[Speaker 1]
That's true, that's true.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, I'll tell you something about Buddhist scripture. Sometimes you just put it there and say, I'll get back to you later. Okay, K.T.T.B.D.G. said, if something exists, then the mind that holds it to be real is an obstacle to Buddhahood, and not just to nirvana. But I'm going to leave that for a while. Maybe they have a different idea of what real means as opposed to self-existence. Maybe it comes down to that.

We don't know. We don't know yet. So what you do is you just kind of...

Yeah, you say, okay, I don't understand that yet. I don't have more information. Geshe-la doesn't know either.

So let's just put it there, and maybe later something will come up that makes it clear. No, he hasn't defined it yet. He hasn't defined it yet.

The word is literally true. But I like to call it real. In this context, in English, is the water picture true?

It's kind of weird. We say statements are true. We don't say things are true.

Which word is that? Dhamma. It's the same word as in the Four Truths.

[Speaker 2]
Dhamma, dhamma.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, okay. So I would read it as real. What's it mean not to be real in this school?

We want to see. Probably it's going to come in wrong look in two years or something. All right, here we go.

Now here, there was a... Sour. Sour, duh, means you can't agree to our first original statement.

The original statement is the arhat hasn't given up the root of samsara. Okay? In this case, that sour is that.

Okay? You can't agree. Nu means able to, right?

Mi nu means you cannot agree to er, our root statement, which was that this arhat hasn't given up the root of samsara. Because dey, by that arhat, ko-wayt-sa-wa gyur-pay dang-zing, pi sa-ban-pang, he has given up, he has eliminated the sa-ban, the seed. Okay, so here's the word for seed, zhong-zi.

Zhong-zi. Very valuable word. I hate it when Chinese people say, oh, you're talking Chinese.

They thought I just was burping or something. Okay, my accent is terrible, I know. Or maybe it's not even...

Okay, anyways, important word for DCI people, sa-ban. That's the word for mental seed, mental seed. By the way, just for everybody's information, it is sometimes shortened to sun, S-O-N.

It is sometimes, it is sometimes shortened to S-O-N. Okay, sun. Especially in colloquial, they don't say sa-ban.

Sun. Okay. Not only has he given up the root of samsara, he has given up the seeds for the tendency to think that, to believe in a self-nature, which is the root of samsara.

He has given up the seeds for the tendency to believe in a self-nature, and that tendency is the root of samsara. Okay, got it? Or you could, I'm sorry, you could read it differently.

You could say, he has given up the root of samsara, which is the seed of thinking that things are, to believe in a self-nature. So the point is that Aryas have to some extent given up the tendency, but not the seed. When they come out of their direct perception emptiness, they see things as self-existent again.

But then when they reach arhat, it stops completely. On a bodhisattva track, arhat corresponds to... I'm thinking...

Eighth, between seventh and eighth. Okay? So, by the eighth bodhisattva level, you have given up the root of samsara, you have given up the seeds to see things as self-existent.

Then you have a little more work to do to get to bodhisattva level eleven, which is really not a bodhisattva level, it's a buddha level. Okay, eleven is buddha, ten is high bodhisattva. So nine and ten, you're just a high bodhisattva with no seed.

For to see things as self-existent, yeah. Okay? And then on nine and ten, you give up the siddhas.

You get rid of the obstacles to omniscience, to knowing all things. Okay? Got it?

And then at eleven, you're... kundu-u. kundu-u means everything's light.

That's eleven. Ten is called dharma-megha-samadhi. The cloud of the dharma.

Okay? Okay? Highest level bodhisattva, cloud of dharma.

I don't remember. There, I mean, I can... I'll show you how to find out.

It's that trick I told you the other day. Chökyi-drin, okay? Cloud of the dharma.

And then you say she. Chökyi-drin. Not defined, but just, you know, what we call.

You know, it's the quotation marks. It's not a khyaba that it will give you the definition, the tsikshe, the literal explanation, but it's likely that you're going to hit it. Okay?

So let's go try it. That's why it frustrates me that I don't believe a lot of Tibetan scholars use this tool. And it's very beautiful, and it can save you so much time.

Let's try it. Di, di, di, di, di, di, di. That's not it.

Di, di, di. Yeah, here it is. Chupa...

Okay, check this out. This is misspelled. It should be chupa sa chupa, okay?

Point number ten in my text, the tenth bodhisattva level, sa chupa, is called the cloud of the dharma because from a rain cloud, chatan, comes a great rain. Okay? And in the world, it will cause the crops of goodness to grow inside of people.

Therefore, because it gives a rain of the holy dharma, it's called the cloud of dharma. Okay? So look how cool that is.

Someone asks you a question, what's dharmamega mean? And you can search a million pages in three seconds and give them a real answer, tsendengi answer, authoritative answer. That's not me.

That's Gyaltsabje. Is that good enough? Like that, it's so cool.

And I want you to be able to do that. I want you to be able to do that. Okay, so now you have an authoritative answer.

By the way, there's probably other answers also, but he's okay. Okay. Tsawad madhumna.

If you don't agree... Oh, right. That was a really radical statement, that, yes, take a vase, anytime a state of mind holds it as being true, it's an obstacle to Buddhahood because the vase exists.

Which the implication is, the kebba, is that anytime any object exists, the state of mind that holds it to be real is an obstacle to Buddhahood and not to arhat. But that's you holding it to be real. Yeah, yeah.

What do they think holding real means? We don't know. But it's probably something that arhats still do that Buddhists don't still do.

Okay, got it? Okay. Tsawad dhamminute.

Or there could be some other trick there, okay? It's possible. Tsawad dhamminute.

You can't agree that the arhat hasn't given up the Buddha samsara because they have given up the seed for... Now he changed denzin to dangzin, see? For holding to things as having a self-nature.

So apparently, an arhat has given up dangzin, but maybe not denzin. Holding to things as a self-nature, but not holding to things as real. So there must be some difference in this school between having a self-nature and being real.

Okay? Now, he's going to do Lung and Rick. Sorry, Rick and Lung.

Anyway. Namdrelay. He quotes a namdrel.

Vartika. Which vartika? Yeah, namdrel just means commentary.

And this is... In the monastery, there's one famous comment. It's vartika, which is pramana vartika, which is the commentary to Dharmakirti's commentary on correct perception.

Okay. Okay. dakteh sthavan phangpe che, lar me shepa nyi yinno.

They are nothing less than a person who will not come back because they have eliminated the seed of seeing things as having a self-nature. That's a scriptural proof for saying that an arhat has given up the root of samsara. Dharmakirti said, they are nothing less than...

Okay, nyi. They are that and only that. They are nothing less than a person...

This lar we had it yesterday. Back. Back.

Who will not come back. Shepa is a high honorific word for go or come. They are nothing less than a person who will never come back to samsara because they have eliminated the seed for the habit of seeing things as having a self-nature.

And that's a brief proof for...

[Speaker 2]
That arhats have eliminated the root of samsara.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, good. Or that that is the root of samsara. All right.

Now, he's not going to let it go. How are we going to look this up? We can, just to confirm it.

I mean, you're going to have to put a footnote. In this Mixed Nuts Translation School, every quotation is checked. Because you might learn something.

It's slower. It's a lot slower. Okay.

I'm guessing this is unique. Lar me shepa nyi.

[Speaker 2]
Three minutes, Krishna.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. Then we open up a new search thing. We go to...

Sumbum Tenggyur or Kangyur?

[Speaker 2]
Sumbum. Tenggyur.

[Speaker 1]
Tenggyur. Kangyur Buddha. Tenggyur Indian.

Sumbum Tibetan. Or maybe one Chinese. Okay.

Here we go. There we go. By the way, GKDU means he's quoting it, so this is not the original.

There's six matches. See the bottom here? There's six matches.

We'll keep going. If you want to know how to do this quickly, keep going until you see something that's all in verse. This is not all in verse.

There's some long sentences here. It's not our text. You just jump.

You see a sentence, jump. His text is poetry. Okay, boom.

How about this one? See the commas? See the pattern of the commas?

You're like, boom, this is poetry. This whole book was written in poetry. See how the equal numbers of syllables between the commas?

This is definitely poetry. Okay. Later...

We haven't filled in the names down here, but I can go up. Semenamda. This is from Madhavartika.

If you want to confirm it, you can go down. See if there's any chukidapa down here. Okay, well, anyway.

It's by chukidapa. Okay, anyway, that's your source. Oh, sorry, now we should go back and just make sure it's spelled right.

Okay. Okay. Takte saban pambuchir lamishepa niyeno.

I think he quoted it perfectly. Right? Got it?

Did he? Did he? Okay.

Yay!

[Speaker 2]
So we still want to put...

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, we still want to put, no, to show how smart you are. That's the main thing.

[Speaker 2]
Okay. All right. So, what, complex?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, I'm sorry. He's hoping I'll do it for him. Yeah, okay.

Here we go. Let's block it out. You can't see my button.

Oh, you can't see my button. I'll block out the page number also, because then I don't have to go look up the page number. And I should have the page number in my footnote.

Then make a big space, and then paste it in. Immediately bold it so you don't go back later and think it's part of your text. Okay.

And then your footnote's ready. You know, it's right there. Now, we don't know exactly which text it is, because we haven't finished our cataloging yet.

So I would go, if it were me, I would go up and take out the name. Sorry.

[Speaker 2]
It's 7.5 inches.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. I'm in trouble with this big cursor. And I would also take out the Sanskrit name.

And you don't need to Control-X it again. So there's the proper names in Sanskrit and in Tibetan. By the way, the Tibetans' typing of Sanskrit is atrocious.

So don't trust it. You need a Sanskrit scholar to help you. Okay.

And the author is Chukyadokpa. Dharmakirti. Okay.

I'll just give you the next sentence for free. Okay, no extra charge. Because it's the end of our argument.

And then we go to Kacignai. Moreover, you know, he's not letting it go. He wants to say one more thing.

He's like somebody. I don't know. DE KHOR BA'I THAG NAS DE KHOR BA, notice no apostrophe I.

Okay. So pause between. DE KHOR BA THAG MA NAS PAM BAR THAL Yes, he has eliminated sansara from its root, right?

Not the root of sansara. There's no I here. Why?

Because an Arya who's a Buddha has eliminated obstacles to omniscience from their root. It's a weird proof. Arhats have eliminated the road of samsara because Buddhas have eliminated all obstacles.

Arhats have eliminated obstacles to nirvana because Buddhas have eliminated obstacles to Buddha.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
I mean, you can't argue with it. It's true. It's actually not a bad argument.

It's actually pretty sweet. But since we're on the subject of obstacles to Buddhahead, he used it. He made his argument that way.

Okay? Your text is much easier than Nick's. Why don't we just stay in your text?

No, I mean, Rinpoche taught me your text, but he didn't teach me that text. I'm having a headache. Thank you for being interested to come so far to hear this.

And thank you for supporting your husband.