Классика Алмазного огранщика: Нижний Срединный путь — Анализ зависимости, занятие 6

[Speaker 1]
This is Shinten. I'd like to welcome her. She's the real leader of Indonesia group.

And the man's taking all the credit as usual. But she keeps the group together. We just had a beautiful talk there in the second biggest city, Surabaya.

And it's amazing. And I like it because they have Christians, Muslims, British, Chinese, Indonesians, native people. I like it.

And she keeps them going. They had a Starbucks conference that I enjoyed. And you're amazing.

And I hope you both keep going. Okay. So this is Sugeng's text.

This is about dependent origination. The Twelve Links. Ancient teaching by Lord Buddha.

And it's what school?

[Speaker 2]
Lower Middle Way.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, Lower Middle Way. So we'll have a few strange ideas that are not Higher Middle Way. And the reason we studied Lower Ideas is that they come up in people's minds.

They don't quite understand the pen. They think part of the pen is out there and part of the pen is coming from me. This is the Lower Middle Way.

Okay, that's their basic problem. If you ask them, is the pen coming from you? They say yes.

And then if you say, well, what about the stick when it's on the chair? Is that coming from you? And they say, no, no, that's there.

So that's their basic problem, Lower Middle Way. So in the beginning of his book, instead of just going through the Twelve Links of the Wheel of Life one by one, they get into the First Link. They dive into the First Link.

And it's kind of unfair. And it's a Buddhist custom. You start to debate something before you've learned it.

So it should be, I mean, in a Western book, you would have the whole presentation first and then you would have questions about it. But in a Buddhist book, the questions come first and you learn by getting confused. So we've been very successful so far.

And we're in the middle of Link Number One. And normally these books, like Vasubandhu's Commentary, which is exquisite, which is maybe your next goal in your next life, half the book is on the First Link. And the other links are easier.

He's also working on that a lot because we're planning a seminar, and possibly every year, I don't know, in Indonesia at a place called Burubudur, where the Wheel of Life story is carved into a mountain. Okay, so here we go. ,GANG PHYIGS GANG ZAG GI DANG ZIN YIN NA, ,JIGS DANG YIN PA'I KHYAB, Serna.

So that's Serna. The Z, by the way, is just a low-tone S, right? It's not Z.

Some people think it is, and it's not. Serna means, if you say the... So, a debate is always introduced by Serna.

Whatever is coming before Serna is a controversial statement. Somebody comes up and says, the sky is green. And then, that's how you start an argument.

It's just like in your family. Somebody comes out and says something like, let's go on a vacation to Hawaii, even though we don't have any money. And then they start a controversy this way.

So Serna is always, if you say. Khyab. The word Khyab, just before Serna, is a sign that the argument is going to take the form of a statement that if something is A, it must be B.

Khyab means, if something is A, it must be B. Khyab means cover. And it means, if it's a computer, it must be...

If it's a Mac, it must be a computer. So, either a subset or an equal set. Either one.

That's Khyab. So if something is this, it must be that. Now, because it says Serna, we know it's wrong.

So luckily, we already know it's going to be wrong. What's he say? He says, if something is Gansaki Dangdzin, Dangdzin means the tendency to hold, or to believe in a self, self-nature.

Now, I would call it self-nature because in English, we don't call self normally to things. But dak, which is atma in Sanskrit, badak, does mean self-nature. Sometimes when I'm feeling radical and I had a couple coffees, I'll call it the thing is itself.

Is a pen itself. That's atman. That's dak.

Okay, so dangdzin yunna. There's two kinds of dangdzin, which are?

[Speaker 2]
People and things.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, people and things. And sometimes the things is defined as...

[Speaker 2]
The parts. Yeah, the parts of the person.

[Speaker 1]
The parts of the person. Okay, so it's not just things in general. Otherwise, it would be a confusing division because Gansak is also a thing.

So, there's two kinds of wrong feelings about things. That, oh, it's coming this way. It exists this way.

There's two kinds. One is about people. And one is about things.

But in that division, things means normally the parts of the person. So, do I think the top of the pen is coming from itself? And do I think that the pen is coming from itself?

You see what I mean? So... Oh, sorry.

Is Sugeng coming from himself? Or Sugeng's face is coming from itself? So, one we would call holding to the self of a person.

And the other we would call holding to the self of things, but meaning parts of Sugeng. So, he says, if it's the tendency to believe that a person is themselves, then it must be jikta. Now, jik means to destroy.

Tawa means a viewpoint. And it's called the view of destruction. And classically, the first link of the Wheel of Life is not just general ignorance.

It's jikta. And roughly, not precisely, jikta is defined as a misunderstanding of me and mine. So, if we're talking about Sugeng's jikta, Sugeng's ignorance, misunderstanding, first link, it's always aimed at you.

So, now this person, his debate is, every kind of wrong idea about a person is jikta. Meaning, every kind of wrong idea about a person must be focused on me or mine. And it's always wrong.

So, you can relax already. There's some problem there. It's not correct.

Somehow it's incorrect. And you don't have to understand why, because that's what the book's about. So, here goes the book.

Now, we're going to start with a counterexample. If you say, every drink in the world is coffee, then I can say, oh, let's take this one. You know, this is a counterexample.

And you take it sarcastically. You know, you're like, oh, let's take this one. Mmm, let's be coffee, huh?

Okay? So, what's coming next is his counterexample. It's something that doesn't fit what he said.

Okay? It's something that proves what he said is wrong. Okay, so here we go.

Seijin... Seijin in Sanskrit?

[Speaker 2]
Devadatta.

[Speaker 1]
Devadatta. Good. Now, when you're debating in English, you might say John Smith.

Or John Doe. It's just a generic name. They're just like Joe.

Or John. Or... I don't know.

Kiki. You know, you just take anybody. Take anybody.

So, the classic one in Buddhism is, you take Devadatta. Now, that happens to be the... the mean cousin of the Buddha.

Half-brother? Anyway. Seijin.

Kikyu means... Yeah. Means in his mind.

Gyu means tantra. The Sanskrit is tantra. But it means stream.

So, tantra can mean stream. So, gyu, tantra in... can also mean mental stream.

Okay? In the mind. But with an emphasis on stream-ness.

Okay? As opposed to chitta, which is mind as a clunk, as a hunk. So, gyu means kind of over time.

So, let's take in the mind of Seijin, of Devadatta. Let's go to Chöchen. Chöchen means let's take.

Chöchen is always... Let's take as an example. And how do you phrase it in Tibetan?

When you're in a debate. No, in the Tibetan language, how do you spell it? Yeah, you draw out the chö.

You go... Chöchen.

[Speaker 2]
Chöchen.

[Speaker 1]
It means come on. Here's my counterexample. But it comes...

The word counterexample comes at the end. So, chöchen. Okay, chöchen.

Tokpa. Okay, rat-tok. Okay?

At the end here. R-T-O-G. Is a word that means what?

[Speaker 2]
Potentially wrong or suspicious.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, it can mean... a wrong idea. Okay, misperception.

Okay? What's the problem with this word?

[Speaker 2]
It also has a homonym.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, there's a word of the same sound. If you add an S to it, it means... a very correct perception.

So, when you're in a debate, and the guy says tokpa, you gotta say, which one? Okay? Because it sounds the same.

The suffix letter is silent. So, this tokpa means... fantasy, wrong idea.

Oh, my wife has a tokpa, that I don't like chicken, because I wasn't hungry. You know, it was a wrong idea. It's not a correct idea.

Okay, his tokpa, which holds, zin, that chöchen is another... it's like John or Joe. Chöchen means devadatta.

Chöchen is... what is that in Sanskrit? Somebody gotta look it up for me.

No, it's C-H-O-S. It's something like yajna. It could be.

Let's look it up. Who can do it the fastest? Not me.

Lokesh Chandra, great dictionary. Here we go. Where is it?

Yeah, that sounds good. That's not a good example. Where is it?

Down here. Yeah, here's the choices. I would take...

I don't know. I usually take the one that has the most references behind it. How about yajna?

Okay. By the way, here's Veda, rikje. There's a Veda called yajur, which is also the same word.

Okay, so I would call it yajna. Okay, this one here should go. Y-A-J-N-N-Y-A But when we write it in a book, because foreigners can't use this tilde, we just say yajna.

Y-A-J-N-A, okay? Okay, so I think we're gonna go with yajna. I think I remember it's yajna.

Here's another example of it, yajnasvara. This is a great dictionary that people... He's typing in books like this.

And because of him, we have these books. So you should give him another hand. And you should thank your people for it.

They're working very hard. I'm sure they're working while he's here. They're probably having a...

cici, shimi, mebe, losa. Cici means mouse. Cici means mouse.

Shimi means cat. Mebe means not there. Losa means holiday.

It's a famous tampe. Tampes are good ways to learn Tibetan. They are sayings.

You know, when the cat's away, the mice will play. He's in America.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
So... Devadatta's looking at yajna, okay? And he has this wrong idea, which holds that rangyatubadze.

Self-standing. Self-standing. Zeyi...

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, substantial.

[Speaker 1]
Self-standing and substantial. These are basic ways of believing something is coming from its own side. So in the lower schools, this is how they explain it.

Oh, it stands by itself. It doesn't need a cause. It doesn't need a support.

It comes up by itself. Like a weed grew in my garden. I didn't do anything.

It just grew. And rang... Zeyi's substantial means, I don't know, existing in and of itself or something.

Each school has a different idea about what is Zeyi. What does substantial mean? Anyway, we're talking about a basic kind of self-existence that even the lower schools agree to.

Oh, this thing is self-existing. No causes, no support. It doesn't depend on me.

You see? Anti-dependent origination. Zeyi means substantial.

It has real essence of its own. It doesn't... It's not depending on my perception.

It has its own... It has its own... It's a pen.

Inside is a pen. Inside the aspirant is the aspirant. It doesn't depend on me.

Every aspirant should work the same because they're substantial. Okay, so... What does Zeyi mean?

Yeah, Zeyi. Zeyi means substance. It's related to the word za, which is related to the second link of the Wheel of Life.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, okay.

[Speaker 1]
Because the person in the second link is a zaken.

[Speaker 2]
Substance maker?

[Speaker 1]
Doer, E-R. Yeah. Potter.

[Speaker 2]
Potter.

[Speaker 1]
So za means clay. It means stuff, real stuff. Substantial.

[Speaker 2]
Dirt.

[Speaker 1]
The most substantial thing in the world. Dirt. You know?

Yeah. R-D-Z-A. Add an S and it becomes the word for substance.

Zeyi. Okay, but za means... Clump of dirt.

The most basic concrete. Concrete in English. Concrete.

Okay? So, he says this guy is concrete, and this guy is self-standing. Okay?

Now, somebody, maybe Ben Kramer, maybe Nick, tell me what's the implication, if he uses it as a counterexample. It is blah, but it's not blah. Joe is holding...

John believes that Joe... John's idea, that Joe is self-standing and concrete, how does it fit into what the guy started out with?

[Speaker 2]
It's concrete.

[Speaker 1]
Good. It is Kanzaki Dante. It does hold to the self-existence of a person, but it's not jitta.

It's not the first link of the Wheel of Life. Okay? So misunderstanding is not precise.

It's a certain kind of misunderstanding. The blind man with the stick is not just any kind of misunderstanding, and it's not even just misunderstanding things. It's a special kind of misunderstanding.

It's jitta, which is always aimed at... me or mine. Me or mine.

Nga-dang nga-yi war dzinpe jitta. Say nga-dang. Nga-yi war.

Dzinpe jitta. Holds to me and mine. All through the night, I'll be mine, I'll be mine, I'll be mine.

There's that Beatles song about jitta. All day we sing, I'll be mine, I'll be mine, I'll be mine. Okay?

So, are you telling me that's jitta? Because it is. It is holding to a person.

It is holding to a person as self-existent. Now, somebody... because we're running out of time, because Gerson Michael talks too much.

Somebody tell me why it's not jitta.

[Speaker 2]
Because it's somebody else.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, good, good. If Joe was holding that Joe is self-existent, it's jitta. But Joe's holding that John's self-existent.

That's not jitta, and it's not the Wheel of Life. It's not the first link of the Wheel of Life. That's the point here.

It's very cool. What I want to make out of you guys is super teachers. You could be a DCI teacher and not know this.

You can do it. You can be a DCI teacher for 20 years and never talk about this. But if you know it, and you give a DCI talk, how cool is that?

You know? Yeah, it is cool. You want to talk about Wheel of Life?

Yeah, but it's only about you. It's not other people. Yeah, yeah.

The first link of the Wheel of Life is always aimed at... me. You see?

It's cool. When John looks at Joe and thinks he's coming from his own side, that's not the first link of the Wheel of Life. Cool?

That's what you're learning from this debate. It's very cool. Then what kind of a super teacher does that make you?

If you've got that in the back here when you're talking about the pen, that's not really the pen, because the pen's a thing. We're talking about Sugeng looking at Sugeng. Okay?

Like, in your mind, you've got this going in your mind, so when you teach it, it's more subtle. You can be a better teacher. What do you call that?

Seijin? Oh, Devadatta?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, Seijin.

[Speaker 1]
It's up to you. How much... You know, you can overwhelm your reader with the footnotes more than the book.

Depends on how smart you want to look. Okay, let's go one more sentence. Now, Dertau.

Let's talk about Dertau. Let's just go five minutes over, okay? No, you have till 8.30. Oh, God bless.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, let's keep going.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, now. Somebody explain two kinds of Dertaus to me. Dertau?

Yeah. Dertau is negating? Yeah, Dertau means I believe it.

Oh, I believe. It is so. And Dertau is negating.

Are you saying it's sarcastic? Are you saying that that's the first negative? Come on, come on.

Is that what you're saying? That's the sarcastic one. Go down.

Dertau means, of course it is. Sure it is. Okay?

So it's very delicate, because you cannot tell from the... you can only tell from the context. You cannot tell from the words.

Okay? You're going to go up or down? Take your time.

We just gave a counterexample. All drinks are coffee. Oh, let's talk about this green drink here.

It should be up. Up means you believe it. Are you telling me that's coffee?

Okay, it's going down. Dertau, Dertau, Dertau. Are you telling me that's coffee?

That's coffee, right? You know, it's like some sarcastic thing. The guy's already getting nervous, from the look on your face.

Oh, that's coffee, huh? Okay, got it? Dertau.

But what's it mean here? Here it means, I guess you're saying that the self-standing substantial self, seeing a self that way would be too powerful. I guess you're saying seeing this other guy.

Okay, when you stretch it out, when you spell it out, it's got to end with Yimba Tao. Yimba Tao. So this counterexample must be...

Yeah, good. Jigta Yimba Tao. Dertau here means...

Dertau means here. Here it means, oh, Jigta Yimba Tao. That must be the destruction view.

Why is it called destruction view? Why do they call the first thing destruction view? Anybody give me?

There's two opinions on this question, in classic literature.

[Speaker 2]
Do you believe in the parts of yourself that are breaking down constantly?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, first of all, you will die. So this view is always looking at something destructible. It's going to be destroyed.

That's one opinion of what Jigta means here.

[Speaker 2]
But it destroys you too. The view itself destroys you.

[Speaker 1]
Ah, that's true. Then I never thought to explain it that way.

[Speaker 2]
So there's three.

[Speaker 1]
But the Tao itself is...

[Speaker 2]
Again?

[Speaker 1]
No.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, it also will end.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, you can destroy this view. You can kill link number one. So different scholars explain this two different ways.

Some people say destructible view because it's looking at me who's made of destructible parts. I'm impermanent. But the other viewpoint is that, no, no, no.

It's not the view of the destructible thing. It's the view which will be destroyed. The full form is...

Jigtsokla Tawa, which looks upon the destructible assembly.

[Speaker 2]
You mean destructive view, right?

[Speaker 1]
It is, but I've never seen it explained that way. It does cause the destruction of the body. If you didn't have it, you would not...

I mean, if you destroy it, then... Yeah. Yeah, you're free.

So sometimes the full form of Jigta is Jigtsokla Tawa, which means the view of the perishable assembly. There's probably some sexy Sanskrit you want to look it up for us? Just to impress Santosh.

I'm trying to impress him.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
I want him to think we're really smart. What is Tsog? In Sanskrit, Kaya, maybe.

Or Sangha, or something like that.

[Speaker 2]
Tsog, Gana, maybe? Gana Chakra?

[Speaker 1]
Jigtsokla Tawa.

[Speaker 2]
Like Gana? Gana Chakra?

[Speaker 1]
That's possible, Gana, yeah. Yeah, today is Gana Chakra Day, by the way. Anyway, okay.

Are you telling me that's link number one? Sarcastic, right? Why is it sarcastic?

Because it can't be link number one, why?

[Speaker 2]
Because Devadatta is not looking at... He's not looking at himself.

[Speaker 1]
Good, he's looking at Yajna. Okay, got it? So, dare tell Deitya that today is for first...

Yeah, Deitya means... Oh, are you telling me that's link number one? Because it is...

Oh, right, it is... Somebody is holding to a person as self-existent. Somebody is holding to a person as self-existent.

Your first statement was, anytime someone holds to a person as self-existent, that must be the first link. And then we said, okay, well what if you're looking at another person, and holding them as self-existent? Is that the first link?

We're sarcastic. Oh, is that the first link? Because it is.

Because when John looks at Joe, and thinks he's self-existent, he is holding to another person. He is holding to a person. Okay, so it's not precise enough.

You can't define the first link as holding that another person is self-existent, holding that the person is self-existent, because it only is your person. Got it? Or mine.

[Speaker 2]
Okay. Wow. And that text just says, it's that because it's that.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, so dare tell means, this dare tell means, are you telling me it's the first link? Because it is a case of a person holding to a person as self-existent. Why?

Then, in between here, the other guy always says, why you say that? I would say, well, it's exactly what you just said it was. It's a kind of holding, zin, to a self, nature, atman, of a person, which is, mikpa means focused on.

This mikpa as a verb. Somebody tell me the difference in accent. Rare difference in accent.

[Speaker 2]
Mikpa.

[Speaker 1]
Mikpa. Or mikpa. So this is the only time in Tibetan where we get some kind of Chinese tones going on.

Uh, and uh. Uh, and uh. Spelled exactly the same.

It's contextual. The verb is mikpa, to focus. Mikpa means the object of focus.

Mikme say, wait attention, no mikpa, no object. We don't say mikme, although most foreigners do. Okay.

Okay. Oh good, yeah. Yeah, so this kaya means group.

Yeah. Yeah. The body of the troops or something.

Okay. So sat, destructible? I don't think so.

You sure you got the right one?

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Oh well, let's not worry about it. Santosh is not too impressed now. Now.

Sorry, did you have a question?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, where do you get the case that?

[Speaker 1]
Sorry?

[Speaker 2]
Because it is the case that. Is that wrapped up in cheer?

[Speaker 1]
De.

[Speaker 2]
De. De.

[Speaker 1]
De is the colon. Okay. And we'll work on the translation.

Don't stress. Write something and I'll tear it up. Okay.

Okay. Now, tsawang de na. Heavy prenasal here.

Somebody show me. Yeah, good, louder.

[Speaker 2]
Tsawang de na.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, hear it? We don't say tsawang de. We say...

Okay. This apostrophe, which is an au, right here, it changes the sound. I'll give $10 to anyone who can tell you what de means without the apostrophe.

$20. $20. $30.

As we look dumb. It's a hard word. It means...

It's a special idiom for the Sanskrit equivalent of a Tibetan word. De. Like, the de for consac is akman.

It also means substitute, but that's even more rare. So, things you won't remember later. By the third day of this term.

Okay, so anyway. De. That's why you need to pronounce it correctly.

De. De. Yeah.

So, tsawang de na. One of the most famous R-N combinations is... That's a $5 question.

[Speaker 2]
R-N?

[Speaker 1]
No, I'm sorry. That's not a R-N. It's L-N.

Nelnjor. Which means yoga. Okay.

Accurate joining. Applying yourself accurately. Neldunjorwa.

It's the Tibetan word for yoga. Okay, practice. Spiritual practice, in that case.

Okay, anyway. Tsawang de na means, if you agree to the tsawa. Tsawa means my basic position.

My basic claim. Now you have to go back and find the tsawa. You have to go back in the argument and find the tsawa.

Who can do it for me?

[Speaker 2]
I don't know if we have this version.

[Speaker 1]
Say again? I broke it up for you, yeah. I broke up the sentences for you.

Save you some time. I agree. That is a...

I agree. That is an example of the... No, of cikta.

Oh, I see. Okay, now he goes back and he says, Oh, now I agree. It is.

It is the first link. When Joe looks at John and thinks he is self-existent, that is the first link. This is the interesting part, because now we have to prove to him it's not the first link.

So he just agreed, Yeah, yeah, okay, that's the first link. That is accepted by the tsawa? Yeah.

Tsawa means the counterexample you gave. I agree. He shouldn't because it's suicide.

But he did. That means he is in trouble already and he is just grasping at straws. He is just trying to say something.

He doesn't... He is embarrassed. His mom came to the debates.

[Speaker 2]
You know, he is like, Okay, I agree.

[Speaker 1]
Then I agree. Tsawa dena. So now we are going to say a tal for him.

We don't know yet if it is sarcastic. What do you guess? Just guess, you know.

He just said, Oh yeah, I agree to your ridiculous statement. I agree that when Joe looks at John it's the first link. I agree.

Should our next statement be sarcastic or not? It should be sarcastic. Yeah, it should be sarcastic.

Okay, okay. Oh, excuse me. So when Joe looks at John and believes he is self-existent, he is looking at himself, right?

That's what it says. We will work out the sentence. But he is saying, Oh, when Joe looks at John and thinks he is self-existent, Joe is looking at Joe, right?

Okay. Got it? Now let's go find the words.

RANG RGYUD meaning in his own person, in his own person, which possessed the person. Okay. RANG RGYUD LA BSTAN PA'I GANG SAGS KYI RGYU GYI GANG SAGS KYI RGYU GYI PHUNG PO GANG SAGS KYI RGYU GYI PHUNG PO So this is the piece we want to do first, okay?

GANG SAGS means the person. RGYU means their mind, or their being, here, their being. PHUNG PO SKANDHA Parts of a person.

Okay. You can say heaps among friends. If the book is meant for normal people, you might want to say parts.

But in Buddhism, the parts of a person are called heaps. What's the most common expression in English for the parts of a person?

[Speaker 2]
Mind and body.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, mind and body. Okay, so, you know, they just had a mind and body conference. Mind-body conference.

That's how Americans, that's how English speakers say the heaps. They say mind and body. It's supposed to be everything about a person.

There's nothing that's not mind or body. Okay. In Buddhism, we always have five parts.

We don't have two. Why?

[Speaker 2]
Because discrimination and feeling are the most common.

[Speaker 1]
Nice. KORWE RGYU GYUR, RIM GYUR GYUR, PHUNG PO NAM LEN, TSOR BA DANG, DU SHES LO SHIG PHUNG PO ZHAG Wow, 1980.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, yeah.

[Speaker 1]
We add extra parts when we just say mind and body in Buddhism, because two of the parts cause all the trouble in the world, which is feeling and discrimination. I like him. He's my race, or he's my language, or he's my religion.

These are the two troublemakers. So Buddha didn't teach mind and body. He said mind, body, and you're two troublemakers.

No, and everything else. He made a third category called everything else. That's another.

Don't worry about that. Okay, so, GANG SREG GI GYUR GYUR PHUNG PO The parts in the being of a person which are possessed in his own being. Okay, it's just a complicated way of saying himself.

The parts in the being of a person which are possessed within his own being. Got it? Basically, think of it this way.

Oh, so he's looking at the self in his me. Oh, so he's looking at the self in his me.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, I see.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, got it? So he's looking at the self in his me. Okay?

SHIGLA He's looking at something like that, right? MIG PA TAO MIG PA TAO Verb. Oh, he must be focusing.

That I... When John looks at Joe, he must be focusing on the parts to a person which are included in himself. Okay, got it?

Now, when you get to translating it a week from now, that's your problem.

[Speaker 2]
Can you simplify it to something? Or would you simplify it to something? Like, he's looking at part of himself?

Or would you try to keep it more in a true text?

[Speaker 1]
No, not in a philosophical text. I wouldn't simplify it. If I was going to teach this in Singapore in a public talk, I would simplify it.

But if I wanted it to live forever in a series of books like that, I would stick to the... It's complex, and there's a reason for it. If you change one of those words, it'll be wrong.

Okay? MIG PA TAO Then, in between MIG PA TAO and DE, what's the guy say? Because there's two possible answers.

[Speaker 2]
CHI CHI He has to know or fly. Oh, DE, it says DE.

[Speaker 1]
Are you telling me he's looking at himself? What's the other guy going to say? Why would you say that?

Why do you say that, man? Why do you say that? CHI CHI Say CHI CHI CHI CHI Why do you say that, man?

What are you talking about? Okay? CHI CHI CHI CHI It's understood.

Okay? In between the two. Now, in a debate text, as we're learning, there's unspoken replies going on, and we have to add them in the translation.

He says, why do you say that? And we say, DE BA'I CHI Because you agreed. You agreed that when Joe looks at John and thinks he's self-existent, that's the first thing.

You already agreed. Okay? Then he says, well, you know what?

Okay, I agree. He's looking at himself when he looks at John. You know what?

DE Now he says DE again. He says, he's desperate. He's just desperate.

His mom is there. His dad just showed up. He's got her impressed there.

And he's like, yeah, okay. Okay, I agree. When John looks at Joe and holds him self-existent, he's holding himself to be self-existent.

I agree. Can you say DE MI NI TE? What's NUPA?

Yeah. You can't agree to that. Okay, MI NU.

MI NU means you cannot. You cannot. Not possible.

You cannot. MI NUS. It's pronounced NU.

You can't agree to that. CHI CHEN NI MI CHEN. We're talking about somebody looking at somebody else.

That was my example. That was my example. Did you forget the example?

Yeah. The example was somebody looking at somebody else. How can you say it's somebody looking at himself?

Okay, DE MI NI TE. You can't agree to that. Come on.

What are you talking about? It's the example we chose. It's the example I just gave you.

Did you forget? Then now the guy is really embarrassed.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
That's a debate. That's a finished debate. Now, when you teach it in Thailand, when you teach a book in Thailand, right, then you've got to have the ability to summarize it for your audience.

You see, you've got to say, what did we learn from this debate? The debate's finished. We're just going on to another one.

Okay. Now, what did we learn from that? What would you say?

I mean, it's kind of early to ask you the question. I would say that the first guide was that as long as someone is looking at himself and part of him, part of that person, it's the first link.

[Speaker 2]
Good, nice.

[Speaker 1]
So, what we learned is that it has to be towards himself, rather than to the other person. Yeah, nice, nice. Good.

If something is the first link in the Wheel of Life, it's always aimed at yourself. You're always misunderstanding. Sugeng is misunderstanding Sugeng.

Utpala is misunderstanding Utpala. And that relates to a famous question I got in my Geshe exam. Do you remember?

I think it was the last... It was the guy in the video who's asking me a question that Adam cut it out. Do you know what that...

I almost called him a bad word. Do you know what that fellow is asking me? It has to do with your first perception of emptiness.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, you're seeing yourself.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, your first perception of emptiness directly is always aimed at yourself. Sugeng is not who I thought he was.

[Speaker 2]
In the five parts of a person, is there not a saying that the world is part of you?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, no, no. No, don't go there. You're going to confuse everything.

That's a sexy argument. You want to go there? I mean, you can ask your audience in Thailand.

So, it's not the first link because it's not aimed at...

[Speaker 2]
Himself.

[Speaker 1]
Or... Me or...

[Speaker 2]
Me or my... Mine.

[Speaker 1]
Me or mine. You see? Me or mine.

It's not the first link because it's not aimed at me or mine. But for Devadatta, isn't yajna part of his mind? Because there's an explanation of the five heaps that says that the first heap, physical form, includes the world around you.

Yeah, you could go on a heavy debate here. You could say, so yajna is... So, yajna is not part of his skanda, his form skanda, rupa skanda.

He is. So, yajna's body is part of the...

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, you can fight this guy.

[Speaker 1]
You can fight this guy. Like, if your audience isn't confused yet, then throw that in.

[Speaker 2]
In the school?

[Speaker 1]
Ah, no, in the school, I don't know. I think so. I think it's even a lower Abhidharma thing.

So if it's an Abhidharma thing, it's probably accepted by them.

[Speaker 2]
I have a question. So, when we really teach them in the... teach these materials in the retreats, but shall we teach them or discuss how can we apply it with the lay?

Because what are they going to do with it?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, that's why six, seven thousand people came to DCI last week, and ten people come to this class. Okay? Because we relate it to their real life.

Yeah, so of course, when you teach this, that's his problem. He has to teach them. But I believe you can say, if you want a cool answer, the reason Seiji's text goes into Marma Hatha, the killing point, is that the killing point in that text is in the Crown of Knives.

In a Lojong text, what's the killing point? No.

[Speaker 2]
What do you want to kill? Selfishness.

[Speaker 1]
Selfishness is the Marma Hatha. The whole Crown of Knives text is aimed at Stanley's selfishness, Michael's selfishness, Word's selfishness. So if I was going to take this, if I'm in Thailand and I'm Sugong and I'm explaining this to people, I will jump on selfishness.

Because that's the Marma Hatha. Marma means death. Like mortuary, murder comes from that.

Hatha means hun. Comes from the Sanskrit root, root hun, which is where gun comes from. Marma Hatha means shoot the killing point.

Shoot at the killing point. What is it? I take care of myself first.

I take care of Sugong first. I'm Thich Nhat Hanh number one. In English, in American English we say, taking care of number one.

I'm taking care of number one. It means me. So the answer to Allison's question, you could go off on, the key point to kill in your spiritual practice is the tendency to take care of yourself first.

That's the Marma Hatha. Kill it. Go for that.

Don't go for your, I can't meditate well. Forget that. You serve yourself coffee first and then you serve Stanley coffee.

That's your problem. Kill that. The first link in the Wheel of Life isn't about John thinking of something about Joe, it's something John thinking about John.

It's like, wow, you can hit that. Okay, that's where I would take it.

[Speaker 2]
Thank you.

[Speaker 1]
Gacik nare, jiktar zeng gi gyi mi yu yin na, khyer dang khang sa, nyusir khyer dang khang sa, yinpe khyab sen na. Now, there's a cool philosophical idiom in here that you guys should learn. Gacik nare means, of course, somebody comes up and says.

Some guy comes. Ser na at the end means he says. But it's really he claims.

He makes this claim. That's why when we translated your text so far, we were using he claims, or he makes the claim. So, ser, very popular word used by Vasubandhu when he's reporting the beliefs of the Abhidharma school.

He keeps saying, ser, ser, ser, they say, they say. Okay, claims. Now, somebody tell me, Khyab, what...

There's going to be two elements, and one is always going to imply the other. If something is a Chevrolet, it's a... Car.

If something is an automobile, it's a... Car. Equal sets or subset, going up.

Okay, Khyab always means that. Equal set, car and automobile. Or, subset, Chevrolet, Toyota and car.

Okay, so... There's always going to be... With a Khyab, there's going to be two things.

He says there's a relationship like that. We say no. Now, what are the two things?

I want you to learn this philosophical idiom, especially people like Ben Kramer and Nick. I'm assuming word already memorized it. They may not know what it means.

I don't know. Nyi su cheway. Nyi su cheway.

Okay? Nyi su cheway. This chewa means to divide.

And... This is the point, okay? The word kansa by itself means one thing.

But in the dual division into person and parts, it means a different thing. You see what I mean? So in the dual presentation or in the tripartite presentation, you see, in the...

Person means one thing when you say it by itself. But when you're talking about the tendency to hold the person or the parts, then person means a different thing. Okay, so...

Person generally means one thing. Person in the presentation of holding to the person or holding to the parts means a different thing. Especially the...

I would have gone for the things myself because that's more radical, okay? Now, I'll explain. Things means everything that exists.

Things. But when I say person and things, the self-existence of person and things, in that case, things means what? Yeah, the parts, exactly.

Good, good, good. So when I just say things, what comes in your mind should be everything in the universe. When I say things but as a division into person and things...

Okay. Yeah, yeah. So this Gnyisha Chö is a philosophical term that means in the classic division.

In the classic division into these two. So let's talk about... But he chose person.

I would have chose things, but it's okay. Let's talk about person. In the classic division between things and person.

Okay. Migyu. Migyu.

The thing you see. The object. Yeah, the object which you are focused on.

Migpegyu. Okay. The object which you are focused on.

When you have jitta... Now we get a new... Now we get a new idea.

Senki. Say senki. Senki.

[Speaker 2]
Somebody explain it.

[Speaker 1]
As opposed to kuntak. Yeah. Senki means inborn.

What you were born with. You came out of your mom with it. That's believing in the self-existence of the pen that you were born with.

Okay. That's called senki. Sujata.

Sujata. Comes with your birth. No.

Anyway. And then the other one is kuntak. That's one that you learn later in your life.

Bad habit. It's called bad habit self-existence. Okay.

Someone teaches you... gives you a wrong teaching on emptiness. Oh, emptiness means everything's black.

Then you get this... you develop a wrong idea because someone taught you something mistaken. It's not that you came out of your mom and said everything's black.

Someone told you a wrong idea of shunyata. Oh, close your eyes, everything's black. That's kuntak.

That's a learned bad habit. And senki... I think it's sajjata.

It's inborn. Sama. Sahajata.

Yeah, sahaja. Saha means together. Okay.

Sahaja. Inborn. Now, he's saying...

You got one more minute? Well, you can chew on it until your next session, but I'll give you a clue. A, we know he's...

correct or incorrect? He's wrong. He's wrong.

He's always wrong.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Same as your wife. In an argument. Okay.

Saranam means she said. Or he said. Okay.

So you know there's a mistake here somewhere and you gotta think about where it is. He said if you take that tendency that you are born with to believe that Sugong or Sugong's things are self-existent, if you take that tendency which he's born with, then the object it focuses on must be the person as opposed to the things of the person. The object of that bad habit, link number one, blind man, which he's born with.

Okay. Which is link number one. And if you say you have a choice, Sugong or Sugong's things, Sugong or Sugong's things, it must always be focused on Sugong and never on Sugong's things.

True or false? According to this is false. No, well, he believes it, but we know it's wrong because, come on, this is easy.

I'm in mind. The mind. The mind.

Okay, the first link can be focused on mind. My wife, my house, my kids, okay, can be. Can be.

He said, no. In the classic division between person and things, it's always focused on person. Got it?

Understand? So, what's the counterexample gonna be? Just tell me without looking.

What could a counterexample be? Then I'll let you go. Yeah, your hand.

Or if you go more radically, your kids. Something outside of you, right? What's in mind.

Say again.

[Speaker 2]
Things is a part of person.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, you can say that. The thoughts of a person is part of me. It's mine.

I have my thoughts. And my thoughts are correct, and yours are not. Now, I just want to tell you the next word in case I die in a car accident.

Because I love it. Somebody tell me what ki means. Yeah, dog, nice.

[Speaker 2]
Dog.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
Dog.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. Dog. Dog.

[Speaker 2]
Dog.

[Speaker 1]
Gen means... Oh, by the way, this is the spelling of gen as used as a respectful word for a teacher. In Chinese, you might say laoshi or something.

In Tibetan, you say genla. Genla. Gen means elder one.

And it's just like laoshi in Chinese. It's like gen. So, close students don't call their teacher genla or something like that.

They say gen. But super close students can't use it. Like someone who's my student at 9C once a year or something, they don't call me gen.

People I hang out with call me gen. You say genla, you say genla. Genla.

Genla. You say gen or genla?

[Speaker 2]
Genla is the respectful form.

[Speaker 1]
If you're pissed off, you say gen. If you're serving a tea and you want to be nice, other people are watching. You say genla.

That's exactly the division.

[Speaker 2]
Now, giao.

[Speaker 1]
Giao means whiskers. He doesn't quite have giao, he has jia. Giao means like straggly whiskers.

Like those guys. Okay? Like...

Probably Gracie has something.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
So, it's a very famous funny example in a debate. He can giao a chicken. Let's take an old dog with some beard.

Take an old whiskered dog. It means the other guy said something stupid. I mean, you can look at a dog and understand you're wrong.

You don't even have to take Devadatta or Yajna. Just take any old dog. Any old dog.

Okay? You can giao. But it's really cute.

Like, you have to come up with a good English. It means an old dog with whiskers. Not just a beard, okay?

It's like... You know, like this. You can giao like a number shepa.

Yiki number shepa. Consciousness of his mind. Consciousness of his thoughts.

You see? As opposed to consciousness of his eye. There's eye consciousness.

You're conscious of what you're seeing. This is not. This is just consciousness of your thoughts.

Okay? Sometimes for you, you can say thoughts. Manas.

Okay? Shepa che che. Okay.

So he took... What did he take? What's his counterexample?

Me or mine? Yeah, mine. Who's mine?

Yeah, the old dog. The old mangy dog. Old mangy dog.

I sometimes need to translate this. It's meant to be funny, yeah. He said, come on.

What you said is so stupid, I'm just going to answer you with a dog, okay? We're going to talk about a dog. What you said is so ridiculous, let's just talk about a dog.

Can you understand dog? It's like criticizing the other guy. We won't take any philosophy things.

Forget Devadatta, forget Yajna. Let's just talk about an old ugly dog, okay? Now, the rest of it you're going to work on.

We'll talk about it later, okay? So, I'm going to... Now, what I do personally, I put three dollar signs where I stopped.

Because three dollar signs never come in a text. Okay? All right.

You want to do a mandala? Or shinten, how about? You okay?

[Speaker 2]
Okay, cool.

[Speaker 1]
Why do we study Wheel of Life from Lower Middle Way? Anybody guess? Why do we study Wheel of Life from Lower Middle Way?

Why do we bother with the Lower Middle Way? Why don't we go straight to the Higher Middle Way? Why is it traditional to study it from the Lower Middle Way?

It's taught in a Perfection of Wisdom text. Give me the right one. Yeah, Maitreya's...

What Maitreya taught to his Sangha is Lower Middle Way. And it has a single line about the Wheel of Life. And from that came a whole literature, came hundreds of books, from a single line.

Don't ask me the single line. No, it's at the top of your text. No, it's at the top of your text here.

Yeah, ten ching del, chung luk tun, del lu mi tu ma tob pa che, two lines. One line in Sanskrit. It's this one.

You must come to grasp how things happen in dependence, both in their forward order and their reverse. What's reverse mean? Good, lung jung lung do.

But what's it mean?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, how you shut it down.

[Speaker 1]
How you shut this machine down. Cool. All right, take a break.