Классика Алмазного огранщика: Нижний Срединный путь — Анализ зависимости, занятие 5

[Speaker 1]
SASVI PURKI JO SHING ME THOK TRAM VRIRABHIM SHIN YIN DE GYEL PADI SANGYE SHING DU MIKTE YUWARGI JO KUN NANDAK SHING LA CHUK PAR SHOK YIDAM GURU RANG NAMAN DALAM KAM GYUR YATHA YAMI CHIRU DAN SOG GI CHOG NANG LA DANG CHUG PAR DU DAG NI GYAP SU CHI DAG GI CHUNG YIN GYI PASANAM GYI DROLAPIN CHIR SANGYE DRUP PAR SHOK CHIRU DAN SOG GI CHOG NANG LA DANG CHUG PAR DU DAG NI GYAP SU CHI DAG GI CHUNG YIN GYI PASANAM GYI DROLAPIN CHIR SANGYE DRUP PAR SHOK CHIRU DAN SOG GI CHOG NANG LA DANG CHUG PAR DU DAG NI GYAP SU CHI

[Speaker 2]
DAG GI CHUNG YIN GYI PASANAM GYI DROLAPIN CHIR SANGYE DRUP PAR SHOK

[Speaker 1]
Alright then, I think we're here, Kachin Nani. So, it's another debater, and I'm sorry, your text is probably the hardest one, so, but you're the smartest person so it's not a problem. Kachin Nani.

RANG GI RGYAL DAG GYUR PA'I RIG PA DANG MED DOG PA'I YOD ZHIG GI RGYAL DAG MI DUNG BYOGS SU RGYUR PA'I SEMS RJUNG MONGS PA STE The definition of misunderstanding, okay? Here we go. I'm starting at the back.

The definition, TSE NI, of misunderstanding, where you are ignorant, MONGS PA, about the emptiness, suchness, okay? Now, you have to be careful in your school, you cannot, emptiness, suchness, no-self, they're not the same in your school, so we have to be careful. The suchness, tatva, right?

Of the lack of a self to a person, as opposed to the lack of a self to...things, okay? And those things aren't tables, it means your fingers, your hands, and the things around you, okay? So, in your school, it's an important difference between the emptiness of Sugeng, and the emptiness of Sugeng's hand, or his arm, or his table, okay?

So, the definition of misunderstanding, and probably he's talking about the first link, but it's not, he didn't mention first link, which is ignorant about suchness, meaning for him, the lack of a self to the person, meaning Sugeng. Sugeng's lack of a self, okay? Here's the definition, RANG GI RGYAL DAG RGYUR PA'I RIG PA DAG MED RTOGS PA'I YOD ZHIG GYI RGYAL DAG, that thing which works against its opposite, which is the wisdom, which perceives the lack of a self nature, which happens to be the knowledge, which is the opposite of misunderstanding, okay?

He just says it twice. That mental function, SEM CHUNG, not main mind, okay? Main mind is general, it's very important in Buddhism to get a sense, a feeling, of the difference between citta and citta, main mind and mental function, okay?

So, main mind is just aware, okay? And I like to say, if you want to get a feeling for it, go see a, watch a movie where, where Muhammad Ali knocks out somebody, because their main mind goes away. Meaning, their awareness of light, sound, feeling, thinking, you know, you don't lose it ever really in Buddhism, even when you die, but you can think about it like that.

Just awareness, and it's a miracle, and we have it so much, we live in it so much, that we're not aware that we have it, you know? We're aware all the time, so we don't appreciate it, you know? Hey, I'm not a table, I'm a human, you know?

I can, I have, I have the ability to be aware of anything, so main mind is called awareness. And then there's all these fish swimming around in that ocean, anger, jealousy, happiness, love, pride, okay? And one of them is called mongba, okay?

Okay, meaning, you can translate this as ignorance or confusion, okay? Mongba. So, he's trying to give a definition of what it is to be the misunderstanding which is confused about, or in the dark about, we can say confused about, the meaning of suchness.

That's his definition of misunderstanding, and I believe he's talking about the first link, I believe he's still talking about the first link. Say again? DE KHO NA GNYIS, okay?

GNYIS is THBA, and DE KHO NA is THAD, THAD THBA, THAD THBA, so that's a synonym, it's generally a synonym for emptiness, suchness, but in your school, you got to be careful, because they have different meanings, okay?

[Speaker 2]
Suchness, emptiness, no self-nature, not like this, okay?

[Speaker 1]
Now, we're gonna start with a, what? We're gonna start with a counterexample, okay? Which is not the first link, but which does fit his definition, okay?

We're gonna start with a counterexample, and your book is very very difficult, I'm sorry, this is the hardest, okay? It gets easier later when he talks about the other links, but the first link is nasty, the first link is very difficult, and this is the most difficult book about the first link, but if you make it through it, it's like running the Olympics and then swimming at home, it's easy, okay? Okay, and you have lots of time to sit with it, yeah, okay, here we go.

Let's consider the mukpa, which is linked, okay? So, I'm gonna spend some time teaching you this idea today, in his book, okay? tsung den, say tsung den.

This is a Buddhist psychology word, it's important in Abhidharma, it's important in Madhyamika, okay? And you should understand it, okay? Tsung den means linked, okay?

Literally it means equivalent, equivalent, okay? And it refers to the way in which a chaita is linked to a chitta, okay? It refers to the way in which a separate mental function is connected to your main awareness, okay?

How are they linked? How are they glued together, how are they tied together? It refers to this link, okay?

And classically, they are linked in five ways, okay? So that when, when somebody tells you tsung den, you have to say, oh you're talking about tsung den la, wu, five kinds of tsung den, okay? Oh, you're talking about the five tsung den, okay?

They are linked in five ways, and I've talked about it in classes, yeah, somewhere, okay? It took me a long time to figure it out, because Rinpoche didn't speak English very well at the time, and I was like, ah, tsung den, you know, now I feel more comfortable with it, 35 years later, 40 years later, I'm okay with it, and I can explain it easily, okay? So, I went and got you a nice book on tsung den.

I thought you would appreciate that it comes from Bhaishajiya Guru, which is Medicine Buddha, okay? Medicine Buddha. So, actually the best, the best description of the five that I found this morning, or last night, is from a tantra, which is the Medicine Buddha.

So, this is, you've seen paintings of Medicine Buddha. So, I like it, because this author, who I don't remember, Osmuchu Quiksilvama Quiksilva, he gives the five in one breath, okay? Here it is, very sexy, right here.

That's it. I mean, you don't even need all that. It's right here.

He gave them all in one line. I've never Four, and five. Okay, these are the five.

He gave them in one line, like, it's amazing, okay? So, let's go through them slowly, and you're not going to get much translation done today, but you'll be more equipped for that later debate. So, ten means support, like this table is the ten for my laptop.

It's holding it up, okay? It's supporting it. So, the example here is mukpa.

Mukpa is a, is a mental function where your mind is not clear. It feels heavy, and it's not clear, okay? I'm going to give you the definition of mukpa later, okay?

But it's a mental function where you ate too much, or you didn't get enough sleep, or you have a cold, and you ate too much, and you didn't get enough sleep, and your mind is like, a little bit sleepy, okay? That's called mukpa. It's, it's like, dull, dull, or something?

Darkness? Dullness maybe, okay? Now, there's your general awareness of everything, okay?

Your consciousness, your awareness, and that's linked with your mukpa, okay? So, you know, when Geshe-la is trying to explain something to you, your, your general awareness is looking at Geshe-la, and mukpa is also tied to it, but they are using the same eyeball to look at Geshe-la. They are like two people standing inside your head, and they are both using the eye as a window.

That's them. That's support. Yeah, they are both supported by the eye consciousness.

So, they, the eye power, the sense power, they are both using this same window. Your awareness of me, and your sleepiness of me, are both using the same window, okay? So, they are linked by window, which here is called support, okay?

Because, because it's your, your eyes support your awareness of what you see, you know? They are, they're like the table. Here's the awareness of what you see.

Here's the, you know, let's say this is linked to the ... let's say this is my general awareness, and this is linked to it, this is my sleepiness today, it's linked to my general awareness, because they share the same eyeballs. They're both looking at the world through the same eyes, okay?

Through the same window. Yeah, then, yeah, sense power, you can say sense power, or even sense consciousness here, it's two separate things, okay? Are the support for both states of mind.

Both the main mind, and the secondary mind going on, the sleepiness going on, during the awareness, okay? Second one, yes?

[Speaker 2]
In this case, the sense power only refers to the first five, right?

[Speaker 1]
No, it could be the same memory, for example, which would be the sixth one, yeah. They could be thinking, my, I could be thinking sleepily about the guy who cheated me last year, okay? Then the sense power is, is the mental sense power.

Okay, mikpa, I'm gonna expand it to mikpa, okay, mikpa. Mikpa means what they are focused on, in this case, Geshe-la's color and shape, okay? So, your sleepiness is focused on Geshe-la's color and shape, and your awareness is focused on Geshe-la's color and shape, okay?

So, they are linked by, not only by the same supporter, the eye, but they are linked by looking at the same object. So, mikpa means object. They are linked by object.

Like, when you're angry, the main mind is aware of your wife or your husband, the side mind is angry, and they are both looking at the same husband or wife, okay? Okay, the third one is the most difficult one. Nampa, this goes back to Yoga Sutra, okay?

For example, if I put this, this is a clear water, right? If I set it on the table, and I look through it, this becomes brownish, because the table's brown, okay? It's called setting a jewel on a velvet cloth, okay?

So, the nampa means the aspect, and aspect means this becomes brownish, you see? I mean, the clear cup becomes kind of brown. It's not really brown, but it's taking the color of the things around it, you see?

So, it's the, you can say feeling, aspect, mode of your awareness and of your sleepiness are both, if you're looking at something red, they're both colored red, okay? They are clear. Consciousness is clear.

It has no color, but if you're staring at Geshe-la's red tie, they both become kind of reddy, and so that's the most difficult one, okay? They're both like, like clear glass. They take on some quality of the object.

They feel red, a little red, okay? But the awareness and the sleepiness are both a little Geshe Michael-y, okay? It means aspect, okay?

They share that also. They are linked that way. So, so far we have same supporter, same object, she likes same object, and same tint.

It doesn't have to be physical, okay? It can be, if you're angry, they both feel, they have the same flavor, flavor, aspect, tint, okay? That's a difficult one to explain.

Next one is easy. Do, here, means duration, duration. They begin at the same time, and they go on for the same amount of time.

So, for as, as long as Geshe Michael's sitting in front of you, your general awareness and your sleepiness are aware of Geshe Michael, but when he gets up and leaves the room to go to the bathroom, they both stop at the same time, about him. It's not that you, yeah, time period, yeah, okay, they are linked, yeah. Big debate, big, big, big debate.

They say it's always linked with the mind. Well, actually they say it's main mind, but that's, I don't want to go there. Okay, and then they're ze, ze means what stuff are they made of, like the ze of this table is wood, the ze of this cup is plastic, the substance, raw material.

In this case is mind, yeah, mental, okay. Yeah, they're the same stuff, they're made of the same stuff, which is mind. By the way, mind means aware, okay, so even your sleepiness is aware, okay, they're made of the same stuff, and it's always mental, okay, it's always mind, because you're talking about mental things.

In these five ways, your sleepiness and your main mind are linked, okay, and that's called sung den, and it's an Abhidharma idea, and it's correct. Okay, so, here we go, back to that sung den, okay. Our counter example, against his idea of what's the first link, our counter example is, okay, let's take the sleepiness, fogginess, from not getting enough sleep, having jet lag still from Singapore, having a bit of a cold, you know, and having worked many hours here, and not knowing Tibetan and trying to translate it, all of that's making you a little bit mukpa, tired, like tired and dull.

And then, let's take the mukpa, which is linked with dang dzin, right here, your tendency to believe that the person has a self-nature. In DCI language, that the person is coming from their own side, okay, and it's always about yourself. So, shun tin has it about shun tin, su geng has it about su geng, utpala has it about utpala, okay, so, looking at yourself, you have this idea that you came from your mom or something like that, okay, you feel it, okay, that's a ignorance, that is actually the first link.

So, he says, our counterexample is a sleepiness, dullness, which is linked with that misunderstanding of yourself, okay, they are linked together, okay, got it? Somehow that fits his definition, but it doesn't, but it isn't what he's trying to define, it is not the first link, somehow it is not the first link, or what he's trying to define, okay, got it? So, the first tell Adam goes down or up?

Yeah, always sarcastic, always sarcastic, haha, oh, is that what you were trying to define? Is that the... sun jat yinpa thao, sun jat den pa thao, oh, is that the misunderstanding that you were trying to give a definition for?

Then, we always, he always says in between there, chi chir, why you say that? Why you say that? Then we say, tse mi den yinpe chir, it fits your definition, it fits the definition you gave, okay, so we say, I mean roughly, we say, okay, that's the first link, right, and he says, no, no, no, no, no, it's not, and we say, he says, why you say that?

Because it fits your definition, what was his definition? Here, right? Confusion, mental function, which works against its opposite, which is the wisdom, which understands that I am NOT myself, okay, okay, all right, got it?

Which itself is the kind of knowledge that works against ignorance, okay, that's how they define it, okay, chi chir den yinpe chir, okay, got it? Then he says, oh, okay, I agree, I agree, that kind of dullness in your mind, linked with misunderstanding suddham, is the first link, he said, I agree, I changed my story, okay, and your text is extremely difficult, and I'm sorry, it's not gonna get easier for a while, if you agree, marikpa yinpa tha, are you telling me it's link number one? Are you telling me it's link number one?

Okay, marikpa yinpa tha, no, this is us, he said, I agree, that it's what, it's an example of what I was trying to define, and I agree that it fits my definition, and we said, no, it's not, that isn't, that isn't the first link. Now, the benefit of this debate for us is coming right now, somehow we're gonna learn something about the first link right now, because we're gonna prove that what he gave us is not the first link, it's some, what we're supposed to learn is coming now, okay, dön na, if you agree, marikpa yinpa tha, are you telling me that's the first link, that's a misunderstanding? Why do you say that?

Dönpa yinpa tha, because you just agreed, then here comes the punchline, okay, tsan yin yinpa tha, sa way nyong mong yinpa tha, are you telling me it's a root negative emotion, are you telling me it's a root negative emotion, okay, tsan yin druk, tsan yin druk, right, nye nyun ni shu, say tsan yin druk, nye nyun ni shu, there are six primary negative emotions, and there are six, twenty secondary negative emotions, there are six troublemakers, big troublemaker emotions, and there are six, small, sorry, twenty small troublemakers, okay, alright, now we go, we go, we go fight him this way, if you say that my dullness right now, because I'm sick and I'm tired, is, is the first link of the Wheel of Life, then are you telling me that it is a primary negative emotion, one of the six, are you telling me it's one of the six, okay, what did we just learn, okay, if something is the first link, it's got to be one of the six, that, that's all we learned, you know, he could have said, he could have written a book that says, there's six major negative emotions, the first link is one of them, he could have just told you that, but the Buddhist way of education is to fight it out, and then suddenly you're like, oh wow, okay, got it, sa nyin yinpa ta, chi chu, marikpa yinpe chu, yeah, because apparently, misunderstanding is one of the six, big, big negative emotions, it's one of the six, then he says, you know what, that kind of sleepiness, from being sick and tired, okay, it is, it is a, it is one of the six biggest mental problem, mental emotion, negative emotions, I like, no, no, no, you can't agree, because it's a nyeway nyomong, it's a second, everybody knows it's one of the twenty, it's not one of the six, that kind of tiredness, that kind of unclarity, that kind of fogginess, literally it means fogginess, it's not one of the, it's not misunderstanding life, you're just tired, okay, it's linked, it's linked with your mind, but it's not one of the main, you cannot define the first link in the Wheel of Life as like being tired and misunderstanding, okay, it's not, because that's a secondary negative emotion in Buddhist psychology, it's not one of the six, if it's the Wheel of Life, it's got to be one of the top six, okay, the first, the first one actually, okay, got it, okay, everybody comfortable?

We just learned that, that if something acts as the first link, it must

[Speaker 2]
be one of the six primary negative emotions, question, sorry, if something is one of the twenty, it can't be one of the links, no, it cannot be, no, cannot

[Speaker 1]
trigger you to do an ignorant action and make pots, I think the higher school would also say the same thing, yeah, yeah, to, to, to, to, to spin the wheel, it's got to be nasty, nasty, nasty, bad guy, big bad guy, well that we have to talk about, but they don't cause you to make bad karma, you see, you can have anger when you call your husband phantom again, when you answer back phantom, but it's not the anger which is triggering the karma, it's the misunderstanding your husband, so we learn a lot of subtle things here, the root of everything is thinking that your husband is doing that because he decided to do it, and not because he's coming from you, okay, so we learn something cool, now, to, to believe this argument, you have to accept that the mental function called mukpa, which is fogginess or something, is a secondary, is a secondary negative emotion, so I went and got you some proof, okay, I went to a list of the 20, okay, I went to two books for you, okay, first I got you a list of some of the secondary ones, sleep, fogginess, agitation, laziness, this bhagme means, not dhagme, right, bhagme means carelessness, mental carelessness, if you're tired, then you don't watch your vows very well, it's called carelessness, okay, and then notsam meppa, the meppa distributes, okay, notsam meppa means, with reasons regarding your, your own self-image, with reasons regarding, this is an Abhidharma, a very important concept from Abhidharma, all bad karmas have one of two causes there, okay, one is notsam meppa, your, your self-image, like, is Stanley a good person, like, Stanley's way, that Stanley sees Stanley, the way that Stanley sees Stanley is not strong enough to stop you from doing something bad, you see, like, and this is in private, in the privacy of your own room, right, nobody's watching you, nobody knows you did it, and you say that's not me, I don't want to be done, I don't want to be done, you know, and you stop, you're about to steal some money or something, somebody told me recently that a priest told them to count the collection money, you know, and when the priest left the room they took $20 and, and they never forgot it in their whole life, you know, and in fact they couldn't steal it right away, they hid it in the room, and then later they came back and they, they looked at it many times and then finally they took it, you know, so, their notsam, their image of themselves wasn't strong enough to stop them, okay, chelme here means how you want to look to others, okay, how you want to look to others, okay, that means will you steal it in front of other people, will you drink a wine in front of a Buddhist, are you so shameless that you will do it in front of other people, okay, so in the Abhidharma system, all good karma must be accompanied by these two states of mind, chel yu and notsa yu, okay, so that's in the same list as mukpa, okay, now here's the definition, I went and got you the definition of mukpa, okay, here's the definition of, of, of fogginess, the secondary mental function, secondary negative emotion called fogginess, here's the definition, I knew it was there somewhere, okay, this is in a book about Buddhist psychology by Lama Ngoc Chul, okay, it's a state of mind, dimuk gi char tok means, it kind of, it kind of, it kind of supports ignorance, okay, you know, it's on the ignorant side of things, char tok means on the ignorant side of things, and it's where your body and your mind, lu dang sem, are chiwa, no, it's the opposite of yangwa, the Sanskrit root is gru, heavy, chiwa means heavy, it means your body and mind feel heavy, because you didn't get enough sleep, or you ate too much, okay, heavy, and this is a cool Tantric word, le su mirun, not merun, yeah, not, not fit for Dharma work, okay, so these are, that's the definition of this mental function in Buddhist psychology, it's a dark side of things, and your body feels heavy, and your mind feels heavy, because you didn't get enough sleep, or you ate too much, also, you're not fit for spiritual work, okay, le su mirun, for work, le su, rungwa, mer, you're not fit, now it's interesting in, when you take Tantra in this school, you have to finish the 18 ACI courses, then there's 18 secret courses, takes another seven years, okay, when you do a one month retreat, so when you take initiation, you have to promise to do four one-month retreats in your lifetime, and they're called le rung, which means what, le su rungwa, yeah, suitable for Dharma work, and they're supposed to prepare you to meet angels, so they make you, they put you in good condition to meet angels, they make you strong, those four retreats, okay, like that, that's a tradition, so, so, you might hear the older students talk about the le rung they're doing next month, and in that case, the fitness retreat, sometimes they're called fitness retreat, it's like doing yoga for ten days, and then the stomach gets a little stronger, and then you can climb a lot of stairs, okay, okay, good, so le su rungwa, unfit for work, is the definition of mukpa, okay, but it's only a secondary negative emotion, it's not a primary negative emotion, therefore you cannot use it in your definition, okay, that's our complaint to the other guy, we chose a example to prove to him that he shouldn't use the word, he didn't use the word mukpa by the way, he used the word mongpa, same thing, mongpa means darkness, mukpa means fogginess, either way you're not gonna see things, yeah they are,

[Speaker 2]
apparently because we chose mukpa to talk about mongpa, question from Stanley, I

[Speaker 1]
don't want to answer that yet, there's two that involve the first name, okay all right, I'll answer it, it's not coming exactly, tsar yin druk, okay, there's two that could be, and I'll show you why, this tsar yin druk means the sixth primary, and I'm gonna search within six lines because it's six of misunderstanding, so what are the six, let's go look, and unfortunately different schools have different ideas, Abhidharma calls it the root fire, and that's a whole nother subject, kundunga, and that's another subject, here we go, here it says the six root negative emotions, okay, and the twenty secondary ones, okay, there he mentions it, chung den, linked, okay, I'm gonna go to another one, not there, say again, yeah you can use jikta, I'm looking for a short list, okay, there we go, I don't like this one, I'm just looking for a short list, it might be very well but I don't trust that dictionary, to be honest the guy was a Kagyu, no some of his things are wrong, and I, I don't, no, Tsing Tzu Chimu, okay, okay, here's the tsar yin druk, here's a list, okay, from his teacher, K.

R. T. Madhagi's teacher, okay, yeah, duk chak, desire, kontro, anger, nagyal, pride, nyomong chen gyi marikpa, negative misunderstanding, and nyomong chen gyi tawa, view, and tetsam, negative, negative doubts, so some doubts are healthy, some doubts are not, how many we got, desire, anger, pride, misunderstanding, wrong views, and doubts, those are the classic six, now, which one of those is the first link, it's a huge debate, okay, I'm not gonna go there yet, I will go there, so there's two candidates here, one is viewpoints, and one is ignorance, okay, one is viewpoints, and one is ignorance, well it's very famous, that the, the one of the six which means wrong views, has five of its own, so sometimes they call the six, the five wrong views, and the five not views, so sometimes they get ten, and of the five views, the first one is called jikta, perishable view, which is focused on yourself and misunderstands Sugeng, your jikta misunderstands Sugeng, your jikta misunderstands Shunten, yours misunderstands Nick, that's the first link, okay, so the, I mean you didn't get there yet, but the first link, should, has to be a misunderstanding about yourself, okay, so it's jikta, it's actually two things, about me and mine, okay, so we're not gonna go there, okay, so which of the six, your question, which of the six main negative emotions, is the one which is the first link, it's not the one you think, it's not the one called ignorance, okay, it's more specifically the one inside the views, one of the five views, that's focused on me, to be more precise, but let's not do that, because there's more to say about it, okay, okay, new debater, we beat that guy, on the basis of, what, what, he chose a secondary negative emotion, and the one which triggers the wheel has to be primary, that's all, that's the only complaint we had with him, okay, ,GANG ZAG GIS BDAG MED PAS DE KHO NA NYID LA RMONGS PA'I MA RIG PA YIN NA, DE KHO NA NYID LA RMONGS PA'I MA RIG PA YIN PA'I KHYAB, okay, now, this is tricky, if something is a misunderstanding, which is in the dark, about suchness, in the form of the lack of a self to the person, if something is misunderstanding, which is in the dark or darkness about the suchness, which is the lack of self to a person, okay, then it must be in the dark about suchness, so I'll make it simple, we're drawing a distinction between suchness and the suchness which is the lack of a self to a person, okay, we're making a distinction between general suchness and suchness which is the lack of self of a person, that's all, that's the debate here, he's trying to say one could be the other, okay, misunderstanding yourself, the real, misunderstanding the real nature of yourself, sometimes I call suchness the real nature, maybe it's easier, misunderstanding the real nature of yourself is what it is to misunderstand the real nature, okay, got it, I'll say it again, misunderstanding the real nature of yourself is what it means to misunderstand the real nature, okay, now I'll give you a clue, in this school, the three tracks, self-assigned listeners, self-made Buddhas, and Bodhisattva track, in this school they see three degrees of emptiness, they can't see the one he sees, and they can't see the one he sees, okay, this one is the, if I got it straight, the subtle lack of a self to the person, this one is the rough lack of a self to things, and this is the subtle lack of a self to things, and only this one is called emptiness, the subtle lack of a self to things, in your school, is the only one that gets the name emptiness, these two are anatman, these two are no-self, this one is subtle lack of a self to things, and this is, sorry, person, person, and this is the gross lack of a self to things, where does the gross lack of a self to people count? They don't talk about it, okay, only these three, okay, and, and now if I tell you the next thing, this is suchness, emptiness is called suchness, okay, okay, got it?

So, if something is suchness in this flavor, if something is suchness in the form of the subtle lack of a self to the person, can you call it suchness? No, because he sees it, but he doesn't, okay, got it? That's the punchline here, I just told you the whole argument, I cheated, okay, I just told you the whole argument, I'll go deeper, you wanna go deeper?

If it's only this one that's real emptiness, if it's only this one that is real emptiness, and only bodhisattvas see real emptiness, which is not true according to higher middle way, they say even lower arhats see emptiness, okay, but this school says, if it's true that only the bodhisattva sees emptiness, okay, yesterday in the DCI class, I started out by saying there's two levels of reality, ultimate, and then deceptive, okay, normal, normal reality, and ultimate reality, where would you draw that line here? Between ultimate reality and normal reality? In his school?

[Speaker 2]
Would you draw, would you draw it here?

[Speaker 1]
Would you draw it here? Would you draw it here? Or would you draw it here?

Yeah, okay, so what are these two? Normal reality, deceptive reality, and only this one is higher reality, got it? You okay?

You okay? Now let's go, now let's see if we fit the argument, cosmic, so, if something is, is misunderstanding of suchness, in the form of the lack of a self to a person, then is it suchness, ignorance of suchness, meaning this one, okay, okay, and we say, now we're gonna give him a counter example, okay, oh well let's take the habit, or the tendency, of believing that the person has a self nature, Pudgala has an Atman, okay, let's take the habit, or the tendency, of believing that the person has a self nature, let's take the habit, okay, here's his counterexample, which means that it is an ignorance about the nature of a person, but it's not an ignorance about that true nature, in general, okay, meaning this one, okay, got it? No, subtle, it can be subtle, down here.

That, uh, are you telling me this is misunderstanding suchness, meaning emptiness, are you telling me that's misunderstanding emptiness, why? Because it misunderstands the person, the suchness of the person, are you telling me this is a misunderstanding about suchness, why you say that? Because it is a misunderstanding about the suchness of a person, okay, in the form of lack of self to a person, right?

Why do you say it's a misunderstanding about the suchness of a person? Because I just said, it's a habit of seeing that the person has a self nature, okay, oh well in that case, I agree, the habit of thinking, of Sugong thinking Sugong has a self nature, okay, it, it is a misunderstanding about the real nature of things, then we say, oh-ho, ,GANG ZHIG YOD DAM MED DE'I KHO NA NYID YIN PA LTA'O, are you telling me the lack of a nature to a person is emptiness, okay? Are you telling me what this guy sees is what this guy sees, got it?

Are you telling me that the fact that Sugong is not Sugong is emptiness? Because in this school it's not, got it? Okay, why do you say that?

Why you accuse me of that? You just agreed, you just agreed, oh in that case I do agree, ,GANG ZHIG YOD DAM MED DE'I KHO NA NYID YIN PA LTA'O, if you agree that Sugong misunderstanding Sugong, I'm sorry, Sugong understanding nature of Sugong, is Sugong understanding emptiness, then DE'I CHOS CHEN, then, then the thing, the thing that you see at that point must be ultimate reality, because it's suchness, got it? This one, okay, okay got it?

Okay, oh well then there must be ultimate reality, why you say that? Because it's suchness, okay, because it's suchness, oh well I agree it is ultimate reality, ,DE MI NYID DE'I, you can't agree to that, it's ,KUN TZOG DEN PA, we call it deceptive reality, okay, yeah it is hard, it's hard, why, okay, you can call it normal reality, you can call it ultimate reality, I mean it has two names, in DCI we call it normal reality, normal reality and emptiness, that one you can only see in deep meditation after meditating a lot, this one anybody can see, okay, and the name of this normal reality in Buddhism is deceptive, because it fools you, it tricks you, okay, the pen lies to you, okay, everything in this world lies to you, okay, it's called deceptive reality, okay, it looks like it comes from its own side, but it doesn't, it deceives you, it's tricky, it's called tricky reality, okay, it looks like it's coming from itself, but it's not, now I'll give you a kajik, okay, ready, deceptive reality deceives everybody, yeah, good, okay, if an Arya walks in the room or a Buddha walks in the room, the pen is not saying, I'm coming from my own side, I'm coming from my own side, he's like, yeah, but I don't believe you, you know, he doesn't get fooled, people who saw emptiness before, the pen still says to the Arya, who's not a Buddha yet, or not an Arhat yet, the pen still says, I'm coming from my own side, I'm coming from my own side, he says, shut up, I don't believe you, you know, okay, he doesn't believe it anymore, so deceptive reality doesn't fool everybody, it's not called deceptive reality because it fools everybody, it's called deceptive reality because it fools people who haven't seen emptiness directly, okay, got it, okay, come to it, yeah, boy at this rate, let's go to the next one okay, it's gonna cause a fight, kajik nani, you can divide the habit of seeing a self-nature to things, you can divide the habit of seeing a self-nature to things into two, correctly, the habit of seeing a self-nature to things, and the habit of seeing a self-nature to people, it seems fine to me, okay, that's why I said it's gonna cause a fight, and we'll have to do it on Skype or something, or sitting in Buddha Buddha, well okay, we'll try to do it before then, oh yeah, if the students give me no scholarship money, by the way, you guys are covered for the second term, just so you have your mind at ease, you know, if you can get here, even if you can't get here, we'll try to figure it out, but Mr. Lu has covered you for the second semester, but only those two semesters, so last night I was up late, sending him a happy new year sign, trying to make him happy, he only gave enough money, you guys cost $25,000 a term, I have to find another, the third term I still haven't figured it out, the second term is coming, okay, so don't worry about the second term, so April at least, at worst April, at worst you have to worry about this until April, probably he won't sleep okay, also go emptiness of person and emptiness of things is wrong, but why?

thank you, thank you, thank you for having the courage to sit in that seat, and thank you for supporting him, keep coming, no you can, by the time we get to Buddha Buddha, you're gonna be expert about this stuff, and by the way, when I get there, I have to do Pamshe, so that's a colloquial word, I don't know if you'll find it in the database, it's spelled like Vamshe, but Pamshe means presentation for general audience, it means I have to make it simple, and maybe I have to say some wrong things even, okay, that's called Pamshe, you have to say what you hear in Buddha Buddha, will not fit what you hear here, this is for the real thing, and you know, if you have people only for a few hours, you can't cover this, then you have to Pamshe, you know, so oh yeah, if you don't understand the pen, that's the first link, it's not the first link, Geshe-la can you entice them to come for the next year, yeah yeah yeah, if you don't want Pamshe again, but it's a useful word in in teaching, and it's an interesting, the existence of the word tells you something about Buddhist teaching, Pamshe means presentation for the general public, and it implies that it's slightly wrong, and that's where Tongue comes from, that's why Buddha had to write a book called, what I really wanted to say, he wrote a book called what I really wanted to say, okay, got it, okay, thank you very much.