Классика Алмазного огранщика: Нижний Срединный путь — Анализ зависимости, занятие 2

[Speaker 1]
SASHI PUNKHI JOSHI VETO THAM PRIRA VING SHI NYINTE GYEN PA DE SANGYE SHINGDU MIKTE BU ARGYI DROKKU NANGTHA SHING LA CHE PAR SHOK YINAM BU RATNA MANTALAKAM GAYATAYAMI SANGYE CHUDAM SOGGI CHOKNAM LA CHANG CHU PHAR DU DANG NI YAM SU CHING DAG GI CHUNG NGE GYI TE SU NAM GYI DRO LA PEN CHE SANGYE DU PAR SHOK SANGYE CHUDAM SOGGI CHOKNAM LA CHANG CHU PHAR DU DANG NI YAM SU CHING DAG GI CHUNG NGE GYI TE SU NAM GYI DRO LA PEN CHE PAR SHOK SANGYE CHUDAM SOGGI CHOKNAM LA CHANG CHU PHAR DU DANG NI YAM SU CHING DAG GI CHUNG NGE GYI TE SU NAM GYI DRO LA PEN CHE SANGYE DU PAR SHOK All right, then.

Everybody have the text? You OK? OK.

OK. We stopped at DIG SKABS SU THAG SPYOD PA LA, which is, you know, let's analyze this particular section of the Abhisamaya Alankara, OK? Asanga and Maitreya wrote this book, right?

Let's examine this section, OK? OK. DRIN GAL GYI DBYE BA ZHES PA LA DU BA ZHES PA CHEN DU LA RDZOG ZHES PA SA TZUNG ZHES PA DANG ZHES DU BA ZHES PA OK.

So I'm going to go in four large... I hear myself over there, it's kind of weird. I'm going to proceed in four sections, OK?

Which is going to be... The DBYE BA means the divisions of dependents, OK? Meaning the twelve links, OK?

DBYE BA means divisions, which is the DBYE BA, right? DU BA ZHES PA means... Then I'll tell you how they are grouped.

So, you can take the twelve links of the wheel and you can group them in certain, like, three groups, actually, OK? CHEN DU LA DU LA means... This DU means how many, like DU MA, OK?

So, CHEN DU LA RDZOG, how many lifetimes does it take to complete the twelve links? Can you finish all twelve in one lifetime? Or does it take two lifetimes?

Or does it take three lifetimes? OK, how many lifetimes does it take to complete all twelve links of the wheel of life, OK? And SA MTSUNG ZHES PA DANG ZHIG SA MTSUNG means...

SA means level, OK? MTSUNG means equal. And SA MTSUNG means...

We're going to examine... Like, if you die in the desire realm and you're born in the formless realm, then how many links are in the desire realm and how many links are in the formless realm, OK? So, when you say SA MTSUNG, it's a discussion of parity of power, parity of level.

Level parity, you know? Meaning, you know... Like, actually, when you're born into the form realm, your mind has to be there already when you're in the desire realm.

Your meditation has to be so good that your mind is out of the desire realm, it's already in the form realm. And then you die and you're born in that realm. So, is the mind that caused you to be born there, what's the parity?

Was it already in the form realm? Or was it in the desire realm? Because the body was in the form realm.

Sorry, the body was in the desire realm, but you were meditating very deep and your mind went to the form realm. Then you die and you get a body in the form realm. So, this is a very complicated subject.

Okay? Where do we... Where do we assign...

What level do we assign? How many levels in the form realm? Four, resultant levels of four in the formless, and desire is counted as one.

So, we say there are nine SA, there are nine levels. And, you know, how do you move between them? Where are you at some time?

This is what I talked about. It's called the translator's frustration. You never experienced any of these levels.

And you're writing a whole... You're translating a whole book about it. But it's like some foreign country that you never went to.

You know, like, I don't know... KL is not the same as JB. But if you go to Singapore first, you know, and you're like, you've never been there.

And it's a whole discussion about the roads to KL and the roads to JB, and you can take this highway, but you might want to take this highway, and you're like, but I've never been there. You know, so it's not easy. Okay.

So, ZHI. DANG ZHI means... DANG ZHI means which makes four.

Okay, so learn that use of DANG before a number. DANG indicates a totaling. Okay, and that makes four.

DANG ZHI. With that, four. Okay, meaning...

What are the four? The division of the twelve links, the grouping of the twelve links, how many lifetimes it takes to complete twelve links, and at what levels are the twelve links? These four subjects.

So, his whole book is going to cover these four subjects, okay? By the way, if you want a good teaching on the Wheel of Life, this book is the most detailed presentation of the twelve links. Okay?

So, SUGANG DANG. I want everyone in this class to think, I got the best book. I don't know how it happened, but I got the best one.

It's like parents with their kids, you know, I don't know why, but my kid's just smarter than all the other kids. Very smart. Yes, see?

[Speaker 2]
My book is actually the best one.

[Speaker 1]
Genetic. Really good. Okay, DANG PO LA.

Now we're going to subdivide the first section. So, the division of the parts of dependence, we're going to divide DYE BA LUNG ZHES PA into two parts. First ones, we'll tell you the actual divisions.

LUNG means here, means the actual divisions. And secondly, we'll describe to you more details about each of those divisions. Okay, so first we'll just name the twelve probably.

And then we'll give you some details about each of the twelve.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Here's the first, DANG PO NI, DGOS NAS NYON MONGS CHOG GI, RTEN DAG DE LA YIN NA, RNAM PAR BYED NI YOD DE Now, his book is presented in debate format. Okay. So, let's consider dependence, or dependent origination.

I'm going to say dependence, okay? Because it saves breath. And we're not going to talk about using the twelve links to go someplace good.

We're going to talk about the twelve links in terms of pain. First, okay? Later we're going to reverse them.

But, DGOS NAS NYON MONGS CHOG, when we're talking about the part of the... when we're talking about the parts of dependence with regard to negative emotions, okay? With regard to negative emotions.

And here you see DGOS NAS NYON MONGS. DGOS NAS NYON MONGS. NYON MONGS means klesha in Sanskrit, means negative emotion.

But when you say DGOS NAS NYON MONGS, it means totally, totally negative. And that becomes a code word for the painful side of life. So, in Buddhism we divide all life into...

here's the good side and here's the bad side, okay? So, I'm going to teach you the twelve links. How do they relate to all the trouble in the world?

Okay, DGOS NAS NYON MONGS CHOG. So, you can call it... if you're going to be a translator who writes something that no one can understand, you can say totally afflicted side of existence.

[Speaker 2]
Okay?

[Speaker 1]
And that's how my first Abhidharma translation sounded, and that's why I threw it out. I never published it. It took me twelve years.

I just...it's on my computer. I never published it. Because then I learned enough not to say it that way.

Okay? So, we can say the... you can say the negative side of life or something.

You know? I don't know. Okay?

DE LA YOD NA. Now, if we're going to divide out the steps of dependence with the negative side of life, okay? How many parts are there?

NAM PA CHUD NI.

[Speaker 2]
Twelve.

[Speaker 1]
There are twelve. There are twelve parts. YOD DE.

There are twelve parts, okay? Now, if you're going to really translate this subject, you should be able to say the twelve in Tibetan like a mantra. DANG PO MA RE PA GNYIS PA DU BYED KYI LAS GSUNGS PA RNAM SHES ZHIG PA MI GSUNGS LA PA SKYES SU DGOS PAR DE PA LTOS PA RGYAS PA SRED PA DGOS PAR LEN PA CHUD PA SRED PA CHU GCIG PA SKYE BA CHUD NI PA RGA SHI Okay?

So, you should be able to blah, blah, blah, blah. And my teacher made us do that before he would finish. He took three years on this book and he made us learn that.

So, DANG PO MA RE PA should just come off your tongue like OM MANI PADME HUM. DANG PO MA RE PA. Okay?

Number one. Misunderstanding. People call it ignorance, it's a bad translation.

Okay? Ignorance can mean you don't know something. Tell me the difference between ignorance and misunderstanding.

Ignorance means not aware of. Misunderstanding means know it wrongly. Perfect.

Did you get that? So, ignorance is a bad translation for MA RE PA. Because it means to actively think the opposite.

Misunderstand. It's misunderstand. It's not you don't know about it.

Okay? Ignorance means you don't know about it. He's just ignorant about how their car works.

He doesn't know. But he has a misunderstanding about how a car works, means he pours gasoline into the water tank.

[Speaker 2]
Okay?

[Speaker 1]
Now that's more dangerous. Okay? That's a misunderstanding.

Wrong understanding. Okay? So, that's a better translation.

And the whole world is wrong. Get used to it. They always talk about ignorance.

No, and in Stanley's text, Vasubandhu will talk about it. He'll say, this is not just ignorance. This is misunderstanding.

Okay? This is to misunderstand. There's a difference between not knowing, he says, there's a difference between not knowing somebody and hating them.

Anyway, we'll get to that. So, there are two. YEN LA BDANG PO MA RE PA YEN LA means Anga in Sanskrit.

Anga can mean arms, legs. There's a... What do you call a headstand in...

What do you call a shoulder stand in yoga? Sarvangasana. Sarva-Anga-Asana.

The exercise where you use all your limbs. So, Anga means limbs. And probably angle comes from that.

Ankle comes from that. It means a limb. Okay?

So, there are twelve Anga. Okay? The twelve links.

We call link. I translate it as link, although the Tibetan is branch. Like a tree branch is called Anga.

But in English, link means connection and reaction, like a chain reaction. We call chain reaction, right? Chain means links.

Okay? So, I like to call it link, because it gives the English reader the feeling of... Because this is the story of the twelve.

Push him. Pushes her. Pushes him.

Pushes her. Okay? That's...

It should feel to the reader, like a chain reaction. Okay? No, really.

One triggers two, two triggers three, three triggers four. Okay? Okay.

YEN LA DANG PO'I MUR DUG PA NE, from the first link of misunderstanding, up to... Okay? The word BAR.

Here, B-A-R. BAR. Okay?

The most famous example of BAR is...

[Speaker 2]
BAR DO.

[Speaker 1]
BAR DO. When people say BAR DO, it means the in-between, death and rebirth. There's a spirit between called BAR DO.

So, this BAR means up to. Okay? From link number one, up to link number twelve.

Okay? So, that's... He's finished his first thing he promised us.

It's just a general description. Okay? There's twelve links.

Starts with one, ends with twelve. Okay. Now let's talk about them.

By the way, GASHI is the name of the twelfth link. And, it's one of the only links that includes two things. Aging and death.

By the way, you can't translate it as old age. Tell me why. Because you could die right at birth or something.

When does GAWA start? When you're born.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
No, in the womb. Okay? You start getting old.

Okay? So... You can't translate it as old age.

You have to say aging and death. Okay? That would be better.

Okay? Say, DE SKYE RGA NA CI SKYE RGA NA CI The four great sufferings according to Lord Buddha. Birth, aging, sickness, and death.

SKYE RGA NA CI Okay? So GAWA is the second one here. Now, we talked about how for two and a half thousand years Buddhism has taught Buddhists.

And it's not the Western system. It's not Singapore. By the way, Singapore has the highest...

It just came out. Fifteen million... Fifteen million?

Fifteen-year-olds in the world took scores, tests, for math and language. And Singapore is the highest by far. Way above everybody.

Three years ahead of the Americans. A typical Singapore student is three years ahead of an American of the same age. There's a huge system they have for testing people.

It just came out. It comes out every two years or three years. And Singapore keeps going like this, and the US keeps going like this.

Okay? Anyway, why did I talk about that? That's a Western system of education.

The Buddhist system of education is confuse the student first. And let him... Throw him in the water and let him, you know...

And then he will be a better swimmer. He will get stronger. Okay, so the Buddhist system is throw a lot of wrong ideas at him first and let him work it out.

Let him try to work it out. So, in this system of textbook, we always get someone come up with some weird idea, which is close. And you have to figure out why it's wrong.

And you learn more. Then if I just sit here and tell you this is definition of first link, this is definition of second link. Instead of doing that, somebody says, I think first link is like this, and you say, and then the teacher says, No, you're almost right, but there's this little part.

And then the student learns more. Okay? So, here you go.

And this trip will take you two, three years. So, it's starting this morning. Okay?

Your first stupid statement by the student.

[Speaker 2]
Okay?

[Speaker 1]
And there will be a hundred. Hundreds. Here's the first one.

Okay? And I'll be the stupid student. Okay?

Because I did that for a long time. Dependence. Dependent origination in Buddhism means causation.

Results depend on causes. That's dependent origination. That's the definition of dependent origination.

Anything where results depend on causes. And you hear this all the time in Buddhist talks. You know, I mean, depending origination, everything has a cause.

It's lower. Okay? Or it's lower.

Okay? It's correct for lower school. Okay?

What school are we in? Lower Middle Way. Lower Middle Way.

Okay. In a Buddhist class in the monastery, the teacher will say, what hat are we wearing today? You know, like, which your hat today?

Oh, today we're wearing Abhidharma hat. And then when the teacher asks a question, he expects you to answer from Abhidharma school. If you start throwing in seeds and pan and he'll say, no, no, no.

That's Madhyamika Prasangika. I'm talking Svatantrika. I'm asking you Abhidharma question.

Keep your hat on. Don't confuse your hats. Okay?

Ready? Serna. And then I would cut it there.

Okay? In the translation, it looks prettier if you cut it there. And Serna means, Konare, in conjunction with Serna, is the same as Adam's text.

So your text and Adam's text are very close. Your two texts are debate. Okay?

Somebody comes and says, dependence means when some result depends on a cause. Okay? By the way, when the guy comes and says that, and the end of the sentence is Serna, it's always a wrong idea.

Okay? A little bit wrong. And you're gonna learn something by it.

When you listen to some other master beat this guy, you're gonna learn something. Okay? So the guy says, I think dependence means anything where a cause depends on a result.

Sorry, result depends on a cause. Okay? That's his opening debate.

Okay? And what does Serna mean? If you say that.

Oh, if you say that. If you claim that. How are we translating Adam in your book?

[Speaker 2]
Suppose someone comes and makes the following claim.

[Speaker 1]
Suppose someone comes and makes the following claim. Because Konare means someone. Suppose someone, Konare, okay?

Comes and makes the following claim. What's another form of Konare? Yeah, Kachignare.

You can say Kachignare, or you can say Konare. It's the same thing. Okay?

Suppose someone says and says... Suppose someone claims, comes and says, or claims... Ser means you don't quite believe him.

He claims to be the Buddha, but... You know, I saw him drinking coffee. Right?

Okay. Okay. Now, the next thing...

the next thing that comes is always the counterexample from us, from our side, from the correct side. So, he's going to give a counterexample. For example, if you say, every fruit is red.

What's my counterexample? Yeah, good, good. What...

Chochen means what about. Okay? What about...

You can say, consider a... In literary English, you can say, you wouldn't say, what about a banana? In a book, you say, consider bananas.

Let's talk about bananas. Okay? So the...

our side, he always starts. The wrong guy always starts. Then our side always answers with a...

with a counterexample, which is going to prove he's wrong. Okay? So already, if you know the system of these books, you know that what he's using as his example is supposed to prove that guy wrong already.

It's dependence, but it's not depending on cause and effect. So his... his counterexample, his banana, in this case, in this case, is going to be something which has dependence, but it's not cause and effect.

Okay? Because it's a banana. It's a fruit, but it's not red.

Okay? Got it? Okay.

So, this is your counterexample. And by now, an experienced student already knows what is... in somewhere, somehow, in this example, there is dependence, but there's no cause and effect.

Okay? Because it's a counterexample. Got it?

Yeah. Sexy. Okay.

Ah, now that's the question. He can tell...

[Speaker 2]
He can tell you.

[Speaker 1]
Space. Space. Space.

Empty space. When we do the four-space meditation, it's the empty space. This is the example.

Okay. Now, in colloquial Tibetan, it's the word for sky. But in philosophy, it's empty space.

[Speaker 2]
Now...

[Speaker 1]
Empty space. Now... Is there sky in this room?

No, not blue sky. I mean, I don't know who brought this weather. One of you guys brought it.

We have lots of cloud in Singapore. It never ever rained here. Never.

Whole year, it doesn't rain.

[Speaker 2]
They say that every time it rains.

[Speaker 1]
It's a desert. I mean, look at the ground. There's no...

There's no palm trees. They... Singapore rains every afternoon.

Okay. So anyway... Difficult idea.

Difficult idea. And you know it, because you know the four-space meditations. Okay.

This... This green drink cup is sitting in a place. It's occupying a space.

Okay. There's a space where that cup is sitting. And that space has a quality of being accepting.

Just feel me. It's okay, honey. Just be here.

I won't push you out. Okay. That space is accepting of objects.

Okay. It doesn't clash. This is not space.

You can't put the cup... Sorry. You can't put the cup in the...

in the banana. Okay. Space is defined as the absence of obstruction.

Okay. So, this is sitting in a space. Okay.

This cup is sitting in a space. Big question. Big question.

Pay attention. If I take it out of that space, what happens to the space? It's still there.

Okay. It didn't go anywhere. It's just not filled.

It's like a seat on the airplane. Fat guy sit down, seat is full. Fat guy get up, go to bathroom, seat is still there.

The seat never goes away. Okay. So, we say space is an example of an unchanging thing.

And... Yeah. If something is unchanging, it cannot have a cause.

Because if it has a cause, the cause pushes the thing, and then the energy starts to... it goes... and then it goes...

It never stays the same. Push, reaction, and then start to die. Okay.

Always looks like this. But this is not that. This is just like...

Okay. Like a constant sound or something. It never changes.

It doesn't get louder, it doesn't get softer, it doesn't get bigger, it doesn't get smaller. Just there. Forever.

If you destroy this planet, will it still be there? Yeah. It'll be in the same place.

Destroy the whole earth into dust. Move it to another galaxy. This space will still be...

It'll be waiting for another planet to come. Got it? That's namkha.

In philosophy. In poetry it's the blue sky, so beautiful. Okay.

Got it? Is it a good chöchen? Yes.

Is it a good counterexample? Yes. Why?

Because it proves that there is no cause. What two qualities does it have? Unchanging and...

[Speaker 2]
Good. Uncaused.

[Speaker 1]
No, it is dependent.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
But it doesn't have cause and effect. Why is it dependent? Ah...

Because all things are dependent. Okay, it's gonna come here.

[Speaker 2]
It's gonna come here.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. Namkha chöchen. Now, if you were listening during Adam's class, the word THAL in a debate has two meanings.

It can either mean... If you go down, if your voice goes down, chönyi der thal. It's a sarcastic statement.

Are you telling me your definition fits that? Chönyi means definition. Are you telling me that's the definition of dependence for space?

Are you telling me that? If you go up, chönyi der thal, it means you believe it. That is the definition.

It means like that with your hands. THAL. THAL.

THAL. Okay, say practice. THAL.

Chönyi der thal. It is. Okay.

Now, go down. Chönyi der thal. Are you telling me that this is the definition?

Okay, it's sarcastic. Okay. Okay, okay.

All men are stupid. Take Subhāgī. Are you telling me he's stupid?

Okay, it's like sarcasm. Okay. So, which one is it here?

By the way, we said in his class, the first THAL is always...

[Speaker 2]
Down.

[Speaker 1]
It's always sarcastic. Okay. Just, if you want to make life simple, that's all you have to remember.

Chönyi der thal. Oh, so that definition fits space? Okay?

The dependence of space? Okay. This is the same person as the one saying, nam kha chik chen na?

Yeah. When the... When the new serna comes, it's a new person.

Normally. Oh, okay.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Okay? Because, ko na re, means that somebody comes. And when you hit your next ko...

When you hit here, kha chik na re, it's a new guy. Kha chik na... Oh, so the whole tsek man ye is one person?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, exactly. Na re, up until the next na re, is one guy. Now, it might be that this guy supports this guy's viewpoints, but he's a different guy.

Because it says one mouth. One guy comes. Okay?

Oh, okay. Now, in a debate, when someone gives you this, are you telling me he's a stupid guy? You know?

You have two choices. You have two choices. You can say, yes, I agree.

Or you can say, why you say that? Why you say that? Why you say that?

Okay? In Tibetan, how do you say, I agree? Duh.

Duh. And you say it like that. You don't say, duh.

You say, duh. Is your husband stupid also? Duh.

Yes. Okay? Then you're like, okay, that's the end of the argument.

Duh. Okay? If you don't agree, you say, chi chir.

You hang on the chi a little bit. Chi chir. Chi chir.

And that means, why you say that? Why you say that? Okay?

In this case, chi chir, right? You're telling me he's also stupid? She said, all men are stupid.

I said, oh, let's take the gun. Is he stupid? Then you say, chi chir.

Okay? All right? Got it?

So here, we said, chen yu den pa. Oh, your definition of dependence must fit empty space. Okay?

Okay? Your, oh, I saw, okay, I like your definition. Anything that depends on a car, I like it.

Very nice. Let's talk about empty space. You know?

Is that the definition? Does that definition fit the dependence of empty space? And then this guy, we don't write in a book his answer.

We, we deduce it from the next statement. If he said chi chir here, we say de chir. When you see de chir, it means there's a missing chi chir here.

Okay? And I suggest you supply it. Okay?

So I'll, I'll tell you what it says and then I'll tell you how you translate it. Are you telling me that's its definition of its dependence? Are you telling me that's the definition of its dependence?

And then understood response, you can, sometimes you can put it A, B, A, B, A, B. Mr. B says, why you say that? It's not written here.

I want to write it in your translation because otherwise it will be confusing for the reader. The, the, the opponent says chi chir in English. Why do you say that?

Yeah, why do you say that? Yeah. Sun ja de chir.

Because it is a dependent thing. Sun ja means the thing defined Defined in, in line. Yeah, defined, we're not going to use that word.

It's an old, old logic word. Definition and the thing you're defining. Definition and the thing you're defining.

Se ni sun ja. Se ni sun ja. Okay?

Yeah, B-Y-A is ja, right? So, are you telling me that's the definition of dependence for space? Okay?

And then the guy says, why do you say that? And you say, because it's something that you're defining. It's something that you want to define is the dependence of space.

Got it? Sun ja de chir, okay? The dependence of space is what?

Are you telling me your definition fits it? Because this is one thing that has dependence. It is an example of something that has dependence.

It's what you're defining. It's dependence. It's a kind of dependence, space.

Okay? It has, okay? Sun ja de chir.

Okay, got it? Okay? It's what you're defining.

Then he says to that, the second tile, in this case, you believe.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Which is, space does have dependence. Space is one example of what dependence, the definition of dependence applies to that. Okay?

So you go up or down? Yeah, nice. Say, der ta?

Of course it's something to be defined as dependent. It is too. In English you say, it is too.

Okay? Toyota is a car? No.

It is too. Of course it is. It means of course it is.

Der ta? Of course it is. Why?

Sorry. Now, very, very, very beautiful. And in the first page of this book, you learn something deep about dependent origination.

In the first page of this book, in the first argument, you learn something deep about dependent origination. Because we say, it is too, has dependence, because, rang gi chak she la dön ne du pay che. Say, rang gi?

Chak she la. Dön ne. Du pay che.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
We okay? Doctor, we okay? We're here.

We're here. Chak she means parts. Like the parts of a car.

Rang gi means its own. Its own parts. On them, la.

Dön ne. Depending. Relying.

You have to use a different word here, because he used a different word in his own language. So you cannot say depend here. You have to say rely.

Du pay che. Because here, du pay means exists. It exists in reliance upon its parts.

It exists in reliance upon its parts. Because, it exists in reliance upon its parts. And sometimes the short definition of dependent origination is dön ne du pa.

Anything that exists in dependence, in reliance. Right?

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Dön du. Okay. It's dön du.

Dön chi. Synonyms. Okay.

Dön ne du pa. It's sometimes the short definition of dependent origination. Yes.

But it's pretty cool. And oh, this particular view is accepted by Prasangika.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
That's it right there. It's one of them. It's one of them.

Okay. And it's a very good question. Okay.

So, his definition of dependent origination was unacceptable. Okay. He said anything that depends on its causes is the meaning of dependent origination.

So then we gave a counterexample, banana. Oh, oh well I guess space depends on its causes? And he said, well why do you say that?

And then we said, because it does have dependence. Dependent origination. Then he says, I disagree.

That it has dependent origination. And then we said, yes it does, because it depends on its parts. Okay.

Ta! Okay. Because it depends on its parts.

Okay. Now, we say something radical. We're going to prove our proof.

We're going to give a reason for our reason. Okay. We said, it has dependent origination because it depends on its parts.

It depends on its parts. Okay. And then we say, then we add to our reason.

It's called a split reason. We add to our reason because it exists. Because it exists.

What's the implication? Give me the kelpa.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
If something exists, it depends on its parts. Okay. Is it true?

Does everything have parts? What about a partless atom? It's sort of a double reason.

Sometimes it's alone. But it implies a kelpa. It does imply a kelpa.

It does. No? Well, both.

Okay. Okay. There's two kelpas implied here.

When you say, because it exists, it's this line? Yeah, shidrupa means because it exists. Now, there's a shorter way to say, because it exists, so we better say this differently somehow.

Yesterday we said, because it's real. Okay. The literal word— let's see if it exists in Sanskrit, by the way.

Okay. Let's see if it's a Sanskrit expression. Hang on one second.

I don't think shidrupa exists in Sanskrit. Oh, here it is. Shriya Siddha.

Okay. Shriya Siddha. Ashriya Siddha.

Ashriya Siddha. Oh, by the way, see this Ashriya Siddha?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. Ashriya Ashriya means basis. Ashriya.

[Speaker 2]
Ashriya. It's a long name.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Okay. Right here.

Ashriya. Uh, because—now listen. Listen.

Because this is a long A, if you split it, what would it be? Ashriya Ashriya Ashriya Ashriya If this were a short A, and you split it, it would be Ashriya Ashriya Ashriya Ashriya Ashriya Ashriya Ashriya Ashriya Ashriya That there was a negative. So be careful.

If you split this one, it does not exist. Because that means there's two A's here. Okay?

Long A. Two short A's become one long A in Sanskrit. This is shi madrup does not exist.

Shi drup would be Ashriya Siddha without the long A. Got it? Very subtle.

Very subtle. Okay? So, is this a Sanskrit word?

Yes. What is it? Ashriya Siddha Siddha Yeah.

Okay? The foundation does exist. And that's an ancient way to say it exists.

Okay? How would you say that in English? Maybe you can say it's real or something.

Okay? It's real. Okay?

You have to use a different word than exist. Especially in a logic text. Because...

Because then you can say it exists because it's real. You see, you have to have two... As we said, you can't use the same word in a proof.

You can't say it's real because it's real. You know, you have to use two different words. Can I say it is?

Just like that. Yeah, technically in English you can do it, but it's going to be nasty when you translate it. Okay?

Anyway, his reason here implies that if something exists it must have parts. Okay? Now...

Now, listen. Especially Adam. The next...

The next phrase here is du min nu te. Du min nu te means you cannot agree. You cannot agree.

Du min nu. You cannot agree. You cannot agree.

Yeah. That answer from us implies that he changed his answer. He said, oh, oh, oh, I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. He... My husband's not stupid.

You know, like... He went back to the beginning and he said, no, no, no. I changed my answer.

And if you think that's rare, you never went to the debate ground. You proved the guy's wrong, you know. And he says, oh, yeah.

Yeah, no. I changed my answer. You know.

My definition does fit space. My definition of dependence does fit empty space. He changed his answer.

My definition of dependence that I gave in the beginning does fit space. What was his definition of dependence? Anything which depends on causes.

Okay? Now he changed his story. Oh, oh, my definition does fit space.

First he said it didn't. Okay, now he says, yes, it does. Which, which...

What's he saying when he says, I... I changed my answer. He's saying, space does depend on its causes.

The dependence of space is that it does depend on its causes. He changed his story. He changed...

And it's in an argument with your wife. It's the same, you know. You know, I don't want to go today because it's raining.

She's like, I don't want to. Okay, I do want to go because it's raining. Yeah, but that's not so much.

Okay, got it? I changed, I changed. Yes, you're right.

My definition does fit space. Your first Tao... Oh, Zenny Yinpao Tao.

Are you telling me that's the definition of the dependence of space also? And he started out saying no. But now he says, you know what?

Let's use it for space. It's okay. Let's use it.

So, Adam. What phrases are assumed before we say, du min nu. What did he say?

Causes, yeah. So, what's understood in there is tsawa du nu. Tsawa du nu.

Yeah. Yeah, I agree to your first statement. I agree to your first statement.

I changed my story. My definition does fit space. Okay?

My definition does fit the dependence of space, which is to say... Yeah, space depends on its causes. He changed his story.

Okay, got it? In your text, it would be tsawa du nu. Go back to the original sarcastic statement and he doesn't say, why do you say that?

He says, I agree. So, is your husband stupid also? Instead of saying, no, no, no, I don't agree.

Now, because I beat you that way, now you say, you know what? You're right, he is stupid. Okay?

Then I have to prove you're wrong again. I have to prove you're wrong again. Okay?

So, this is what we're doing here. You can't agree. You can't say, I agree.

Why? Because du ma che yin. Du ma che yin is the Buddhist word for unchanging thing.

Okay, unchanging thing. Literally, not produced thing. Okay?

And probably we should say, unproduced thing. Okay, it is an unproduced thing. And if you want to be very clear, you would say, it's an existing thing which is not produced.

Okay? Because, because things that don't exist, they're also not produced. Okay, got it?

Okay, so we're not going to say unchanging thing here. We're going to say a thing which has, a thing which has not been produced. Meaning by causes.

By causes. Did anyone make, can you point to a time when the space that this cup is in was first made? No.

Impossible. Okay. It never was produced by causes.

And that's the big mistake of science. Oh, boom, everything's dark. Well, what caused the boom?

Nothing. What's the scientific theory? Everything has a cause.

Except everything, right? They're starting to back away. They're starting, they should have backed away about a hundred years ago.

Come on. Come on, big bang me, honey. Don't big bang me, honey.

Okay. So, it's not an easy translation and it's subtle. Okay, so good luck.

Okay. And I could go over it with you again or you can struggle with it. Now, what's the Buddhist system?

[Speaker 2]
I threw you in the swimming pool.

[Speaker 1]
That's how my mom taught me how to swim. I remember. She picked me up.

She says, you're going to learn to swim. I'm like, when? She goes, I'm like, oh, oh.

And I learned, you know. I mean, she was watching. I think she would have pulled me out.

But she said, you're not having swimming lessons. We can't afford it. So, you struggle.

Okay. And don't get mad. It took me years to learn this.

And I had to struggle because my teacher couldn't speak English. You know. And he insisted on teaching it in English.

And we're like, this book wrote Tsongkhapa. Okay. All right.

Let's do another one since it's so easy. So, I'm just going to cut it out for you. You can automate this, by the way.

This is a little bit of a longer argument. But... But the good news is he's going to change the subject after this one.

Okay, that's... Are we finished? No, we're not finished.

Oh, the last one was finished, yeah. When you say, ka ching na re, a new one is starting. A new guy is coming.

You beat up the last guy and now a new guy comes to get some punishment. DUM MA BYAS YIN PA'I PHYIR No, DUM MA BYAS YIN PA'I PHYIR because it's not a produced thing. To be more precise, you would have to say because it's an unproduced thing.

Because if you said it's a thing which is not produced, that also applies to non-existence. So you have to be very careful here, okay?

[Speaker 2]
Does DUM MA BYAS always refer to the existing thing? Yes, yes.

[Speaker 1]
It's the division that we had in DCI Level 7. Existence divides into produced things and unproduced things. But unproduced doesn't mean unexisting, okay?

Unproduced things that exist is understood. Okay, got it? Because things that haven't happened yet are also unproduced.

Like tomorrow, it's unproduced right now. But it doesn't exist according to most schools. Okay.

So he's going to modify. So, it's like I watched a cowboy movie last night, okay? That's why I didn't check your transmissions.

Me and Veronica watched it. I said, I'm so tired, let's watch a cowboy movie. We watched a 1955 cowboy movie, John Wayne and Robert Mitchum.

And, you know, so they keep shooting the bad guys. And then there's more bad guys, okay? So that's just like this text.

You shot the first guy, he's down, then there's another one come. Okay, they come like this, one after another, okay? Like that.

GA CIG NA RE, here's the second bad guy. The first bad guy is on the ground. We beat him, okay?

He's the guy who said what?

[Speaker 2]
Which one? The last guy?

[Speaker 1]
He's the only guy so far.

[Speaker 2]
Because things come from causes, yeah.

[Speaker 1]
He didn't say that.

[Speaker 2]
Everything is dependent on causes. Because they come from causes.

[Speaker 1]
No, he said the meaning of dependent origination is when something comes from its causes. That's the meaning of dependent origination in Buddhism. He said that, okay?

Now, in the cowboy movie last night, the first guy has a regular gun. The second guy has this pistol like this. So, the second guy is coming with a more sophisticated pistol.

Okay? The second guy is going to take the first guy's gun and make it bigger. Okay?

He's going to make more detail, okay? He's going to change his definition a little bit and he's going to hope that it's big enough to kill John Wayne. Okay?

[Speaker 2]
Here we go.

[Speaker 1]
What? A little bit more.

[Speaker 2]
Two more. Let's go a little bit more.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Here, I'm going to give you his second guy's gun. Okay?

The definition of dependence for produced things. Okay? Now he's getting more...

So, he says, I don't want to talk about space and all that stuff. Let's stick to things that were made in factories. Or, you know, babies.

Okay? Let's stick to things that were produced. That's his first change.

His first change. Let's talk about the definition of dependent origination for things that change. Okay?

It's anything which in true past tense, past tense, past tense, which has come into existence. Okay? Anything which has come into existence through contact with its causes and conditions.

Through contact with its causes and conditions. THER PA. THER PA.

Okay, THER PA means this. You know, contact. It's this moment.

Okay? Got it? So, he's changing the...

he's making the definition more precise. First of all, I'm only talking about produced things. You can forget your little empty space.

Okay? And the definition of dependence for produced things is anything that came about, DROD PA, past tense, through contact with its causes and conditions. In Buddhism, conditions means water, fertilizer, sunlight.

Cause means seed of a tree. Okay? Conditions means...

What do you call it? Supporting conditions. Yeah.

So, in Buddhism, RGYUD and RKYEN. RGYUD means main cause. When you say RGYUD RKYEN, RGYUD means the seed that turned into the tree.

And RKYEN means the water, the fertilizer, the sunlight, the effort of the human. Okay? To plant the seed.

Okay? So, he's saying... That's the definition of dependent origination.

Four things which are produced. Okay? Now, I'll give you the punchline, cause we ran out of time.

Okay? Watch. You ready?

So, we gotta sit together. Not too close. Don't touch yet.

You and Xiaoping, okay? Now watch. Okay?

Did I cause her to move? No. Oh yeah, yes.

Indirectly. Okay? Okay.

So, dependence also... also covers indirect causing. Okay?

Did I make contact with Xiaoping? No. So, we learned something deeper about dependent origination.

It's cool. It doesn't have to be direct contact. It can be indirect.

Okay? That's our counterexample.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Because he defined dependent origination as... must have contact. And then we just give an example.

You can choose anything. You can choose Xiaoping moving. Take Xiaoping moving.

Is it Narcos by Geshe Michael moving? Why? Because I didn't contact her.

There's no contact. So, by the way, this gets into a subject which he will cover, called direct causation and indirect causation. Direct causation and indirect causation.

I'll give you something sexier. Much sexier. The postman and the person who wrote the letter.

Okay? Who brought the yelling words to you when you walked in the house? Who's the postman?

Your husband. Who wrote the letter? I did when I yelled at my kids last week.

I yelled at my kids last week. I plan to see. Then my husband delivers me the yelling.

But I plan to see. I wrote the letter. He's just the postman.

Do you blame Geshe Michael or do you blame Ben if her shoulder hurts? He's just the postman. He's the direct cause.

I'm the indirect cause. Got it? So, it's very important for the study of emptiness and for karma.

For karma. We're not interested in Ben. Don't blame Ben.

It's me. I cause the trouble. Now, I want to show you something really cool.

Okay, you ready? Everybody ready? You got it.

You just do it with your hand. Okay, all around the table. You ready?

You ready? All around the table. No, like this.

Look. No, sorry. Sorry.

Sorry. Sorry. Stop.

Stop. Stop. Stop.

Shopping starts. Shopping starts. You start.

Go quick, quick, quick. Oh Ben, I hate you.

[Speaker 2]
She blamed Ben.

[Speaker 1]
Why you hit me? Let's do it again. Go.

oh you're so bad I didn't do anything then you said you're bad person you hit me understand that's why in logic we study direct causes and indirect causes you are the indirect cause of your own pain always always you're not the deliverer you're not the instrument but you are the cause but not direct you didn't check you didn't make contact with you but you are the cause so this the study of this subject is very beautiful so next time your wife yells at you if he complains this day who's what did you say that's why I invite mrs. gang today this is Shentian I like to introduce Shentian okay let's go you