ACI 11 «Руководство к образу жизни бодхисаттвы, часть II», занятие 8

Class Eight: Contemplations on the Perfection of Meditation, Part Two
August 12, 1997

... is, is one of the most important classes maybe we'll ever have here. And
maybe one of the holiest subjects, and oh, welcome to baby, [laughs]. First class
outside of the inside. [laughter]. He's been coming to classes for nine months
now. Anyway, one of the most important classes we'll ever have and I think
that the main thing is to imagine, you know, when I was a kid I used to imagine
what it would be like if you cared about other people as much as you cared
about yourself. And I think it's some kind of holy grail. I think that each person
here can imagine how nice it would to be to care about other people as much as
you care about yourself and I don't think that as an adult I've really thought that
it was possible very often. You know what I mean, you kind of give up on the
possibility. You know what I mean, from time to time you visit someone in the
hospital, and you feel like a hero you know. And there is just some kind of
undeniable holy feeling about it and you feel really, really good with yourself
and you get some kind of instinct of, of how it would be if you could do it all the
time. If you could care for other people as much as you care for yourself. And
then you go through the rest of you day unable to do it and that on the other
hand makes you feel kind of restricted or somehow limited or unhappy and you
feel like a person in a jail that you can't care for other people as much as you care
about yourself. So, in this reading today, Master Shantideva starts to talk about
it. And I think as you listen to it then try to have in the back of your mind that
you would like to reach that. You know, cause it's really sweet, I don't think
there's anything sweeter than that, I don't think that there's a better than that
feeling, and I think you can sense it. And as in so many other things, I think that
Buddhism actually presents a method that you can use that works. You know, a
logical progression of steps that if you can try it then you can really get there.
And I think that that is one of the, it's like seeing emptiness directly. I, I would
put those two things, in the two most important things that can happen to a
person in this life. It's like seeing emptiness directly or being able to, to get to the
state where you can get to the point where you can care about other people as
much as you care about yourself. That's bodhichitta. So we're gonna talk about
that. I think it's really beautiful the way Master Shantideva snuck it into the
chapter on meditation, okay, when you think about meditation.... When you
say, "I'm studying the meditation chapter from [b; Bodhisattvacharyavatara]",
you, you think of sitting down and crossing your legs and that's what comes to
mind, and like that, that's what comes to mind. And as you see, Master
Shantideva doesn't talk about doing that at all. First of all he spent allot of time
on the mental conditions that support that state of mind, even when you're at
work and even when you're going through the day and then he spoke briefly
about the platform of meditation that you need to see emptiness directly, but
now he's going somewhere else, okay. At the end of the last class, he began to
describe what, what's been called isolation, in Tibetan it's called {wemba}. And
isolation means, physical isolation and mental isolation. Mental isolation means;
you keep your mind away from mental afflictions like jealousy or anger and
then more profoundly, you keep your mind away from seeing things as self
existent, which is very difficult, which is the source of all mental afflictions. The
source of all anger, the source of all jealousy. Then he started to talk about
physical isolation, like going out, doing long term retreats, leaving the city life.
You can isolate your mind from bad thoughts staying in the city, but physical
isolation he started to talk about. And each person in this room, if you are
serious about this path, then eventually you'll have to do long term retreats.
You know, you start with a weekend retreat, go to two weeks. I've found that
the threshold is just over two weeks. I've found that about fifteen to seventeen,
to eighteen days is when your mind starts to clear out. SO if you never do a
retreat longer than fifteen days, you'll never know. You have to start building
up to three four weeks, five weeks. I imagine that each person here who is
serious about reaching these goals should do that at least twice a year. And then
eventually you should get into longer retreats. And this is the goal. And I think
that it's a necessary part of your practice. You know, you can learn allot in the
class and then there's a limit to what you can do in the class. And then you have
to start doing retreats and you have to get out of New York City and take
yourself to a place. What kind of a place? Hector are you okay? Can you do
that? Okay, are you ready. We actually caught up on the readings, I mean,
people worked like eighty hours or something and didn't get any sleep and so
Hector's gonna read the lines for it tonight, so read the first one, okay?

Hector: "Where to devote yourself to meditation"

We spend our days in gentle walks and thoughts of helping others. Here in the
silent peace of the forest, flowing on the soft breezes, we live doing as we please
in the mansion of a wide flat rock. Cool with the touch of the moonlight and the
sandalwood scent of the holy. Living deep within the woods of peacefulness,
completely emptied of conflict and the afflictions. We live as we please, so long
as we like in abandoned houses or caves or else at the foot of a tree. We have
given up the suffering of owning and protecting things, carefree we live, relying
on nothing."

So, so someone came up to Master Shantideva and said, "What kind of place
should we meditate in?" And then he describes the place in this verse. And it
says, "Spend your days in gentle walks and thought of helping others, here in the
silent peace of the soft forest, flowing on the soft breezes, we live doing as we
please, in our mansion of a wide flat rock." It means, "If you an find a nice place
in the forest or out in the desert someplace, underneath a rock or some place,
you know, like a ledge and then stay there, it's like better than a mansion. And
then he says, " Cool with the touch of the moonlight and the sandalwood scent
of the holy." And here he's comparing moonlight and sandalwood scent to the
presence of holy beings and he's starting to describe, if you know the classical
description of the place where you should do your retreat, he's throwing it all in
here without telling you. And what his line means is, "You should find a place
where holy beings have been before and they've left their stink on that place.
You know, they call it, "The fragrance of the holy beings" Like {tsultrim gyi
trima}, means, {trima}, means, "sweet smell", and {tsultrim} means, "morality".
And so, "ethical person". And supposedly, I remember being near His Holiness
and you get this scent, this fragrance, you know. And it's a person who's
keeping their vows well and they leave their fragrance in a room. If His
Holiness has been in a room and then he leaves there's this kind of presence still
there. So they say that you should try to find a place like that, where holy beings
have been before. Living deep within the woods of peacefulness. Here, he's
making a pun and he explains it, Gyaltsab Je explains it in the commentary.
Peacefulness here means, "away from the two extremes that destroy meditation.
And we spoke about them, {ching, gu, nyi}. Say, {ching gu}, [repeat], {nyi},
[repeat], {ching gu}, [repeat], {nyi}, [repeat]. Hopefully that baby will be able to
talk louder than these people. Anyway, {ching}, means like, "dullness". If you
want to experience it then eat too much, eat some sugar, have some coffee
before you meditate, Don't get enough sleep. And you'll get {chingwa}. {Gupa}
means, have too many projects, have allot of things going on in your desire
realm life, like lots of girlfriends, lot's of music, lot's of art, lot's of places to go.
You know, make sure that your mind doesn't settle on anything, like have lot's
of Dharma projects, more than you can handle. Make sure your mind is
skipping around from one to the other and that's {gupa}.                       And here,
"peacefulness of the forest" means, "mental isolation from those two extremes",
and that's what Master Shantideva is saying. The next verse says, " We live
where we please as long as we like. And here, Master Shantideva is saying, that
this is liberation in a physical sense, you know. If you can go out on retreat you
will find your own independence. And he says it's more pleasant than being a
king. And if you've ever been on long retreat out in the wilderness, you get this
feeling after awhile. You know, you're alone. Nobody will ever know if you live
or die. Nobody could probably find you if there was an accident or something.
And you're just out there. And it's very interesting to just expose yourself and
release yourself and surrender yourself to the nature of the place. And you go
into a canyon somewhere, no one would ever find you if a snake bit you or
something, it would be like six months before anyone found you. And there is
sort of this freedom to that, that no one knows where you are, no one knows
what you are doing, no one could find you if you died. And it's very, very
liberating, it's very cool. You should try it. And, just go and it says hare, "You
have no one to depend on." You have no hopes, you have no plans, you're just
out there, No one could help you if you go tin trouble. And there is something
very liberating about putting yourself in that position in retreat, okay. If you're
starting retreat, if you are just starting retreats, or if you're no experienced. Let's
say, if you haven't done about a total of about a year of retreats, in pieces. You
shouldn't do it like that. You should have a Lama around. You should have
access to someone to help you, in case you get in trouble, which happens. And
then he says, "We have given up the up the suffering of owning and protecting
things. Tibetan Buddhism describes two kids of suffering. Say, {mebey},
[repeat], louder.      {Mebey}, [repeat], {dukngel}, [repeat], {mebey}, [repeat],
{dukngel}, [repeat].       Then {yubey}, [repeat], {dukngel}, [repeat], {yubey},
[repeat], {dukngel}. {Mebey dukngel} means, "the suffering that you have when
you're still trying to get something. Like you want money, you want a
relationship, you want some object, you want a certain position at work. You
want a certain degree or something and {mebey dukngel} means, "the suffering
you have when you're still trying to get it. {Yubey dukngel} is the other side of
the coin after you get the thing that you wanted, there's the suffering of having it
and trying to protect it and not losing it. You know and it immediately switches.
Like, I've been a Vice President of a large corporation, a thousand people. And
you've got your eyes on this Vice President's chair and Vice Presidents office, and
you work and work and work and work and finally the boss call you in and
says, "We're making you a VP." And you're so happy and you go out and you
have a dinner and then the next day, you're sitting in that office and then your
mind totally reverses itself. And you're thinking, "How can I stay here, how can
I keep this place. How can I keep other people out of this chair and it become.
The anxiety or trying to get it becomes the anxiety of trying to stay there. And
that's {yupa} and {mebey dukngel}. So he says, "If you go on retreat, you're
freed from that. You don't have the anxiety of trying to get something and you
don't have the suffering of having something and trying to protect it from other
people. Okay, this reading is designed a little funny and if you look at the
outline, which I hope you are doing, okay. You're not getting the whole [b:
bodhisattvacharyavatara]. You're getting very beautiful chunks and it's very
important to see how the chunks you're getting come in the whole flow of the
text. Cause it's there okay, you should read the outline and you should see
where you are. Why does he go in the outline, suddenly, he goes from the best
place to do your retreat, and then suddenly he's talking about compassion.
Okay, how does he make that jump? I was trying to figure out where he did it
and it's here. Baby mantras. Go ahead Hector, we'll just go to the next one.

Hector: Contemplation fourteen, "What to meditate upon; the service of others."

Think of these considerations and others as well. Contemplate the benefits of
isolation. Put an end to useless thoughts and meditate upon the wish for
enlightenment. From the very beginning, exert yourself on the practice of
treating others and yourself the same. When the happiness and the sufferings
are the same, then you will care for all, just as you do yourself."

So he's shifting gears here and he's going form the place that you should
meditate, to what you should meditate on and if you've ever done a long term
retreat, like a month or two months, you get rid of your {namtok}. {Namtok}
means here, "your useless thoughts". {Namtok} means worrying about the
garbage, you know. Worrying about your job, worrying about all these other
things. Thinking about having this relationship or that relationship. Or owning
this thing or owning that thing. Or getting this position or not getting this
position or getting this degree or not getting this degree or excetera. Those are
all {namtok}, and after you've been in a retreat for like a week it dawns on you,
that you don't have anything to think about anymore cause there's nothing here,
there's absolutely nothing to think about and it's also, it's kind of lonely, you
know, it strikes you, "I don't have anything to think about. And, and then you
wonder what am i supposed to do you know and people actually get nervous at
this point in retreat, you know, and I'm like, what am I supposed to think
about?" And if you're having a bad retreat, you start to obsess on someone at
work. You know and then for like two weeks, you start to obsess on the person
at work, cause you don't have anything else to obsess about The mind needs
something to think about, the mind is thirsty for something to think about and
your mind will start to grasp to something to think about..            So Master
Shantideva says, "Release the {namtoks}." You know, release all those useless
thoughts and as that vacuum appears, makes it's appearance, then fill it up with
thoughts of others. He says, fill it up with compassion. And that's really a
beautiful way to do a retreat. When you do a retreat, this is like the sweetest
thing to do during the retreat, is to do some kind of meditation about
compassion. So he says, "Meditate about the wish for enlightenment." This is
bodhichitta, it's the desire to reach enlightenment to help other people. And so I
think this is where Gyaltsab Je, this is his next sentence; he says, "what is the
method, you may ask which I should use to meditate on this wish, bodhichitta?"
And Master Shantideva replies, he says, "You should from the very beginning
exert yourself in the practice of treating others and yourself the same." So this is,
if you ever do a retreat, this is, this is the whole second half of the chapter, or
actually the main part of the chapter. Master Shantideva tricks us. We thought
we were going to be getting all these deep instructions on how to meditate an d
breath meditation and all these sexy, profound things and then he gets us right
in the middle of the chapter and he switches us over to compassion and he's
gonna stay on compassion for the rest of the chapter. And how he got it in
there, I still don't know, but anyway. The practice is this. {dakshen}, [repeat],
{nyamba}, [repeat], {dakshen}, [repeat], {nyamba}, [repeat].          Okay, Master
Shantideva will go through two different methods to get to bodhichitta, okay.
Two different methods to reach the place where you care about other people as
much as you care about yourself. Very, very difficult to reach that place. And I,
I repeat that it would be one of the, it would be one of the most important
moments in you life if you could ever have that, if it could ever happen to you.
And you will also, it's like seeing emptiness directly, the day that it happens you
will know. The day that you have the direct experience of bodhichitta for the
first time, what they call genuine bodhichitta, you will know it. And it will be a
separate distinct, very powerful, very moving experience and it's also linked to
some physical, you know, this experience of a physical force within you and
going out and reaching other people. It's a very profound experience and I
would put it, you know, seeing emptiness directly and having the direct
experience of bodhichitta are the two goals of your life, if you're in this class,
those are the two things that you must try to trigger in your heart. And this,
tonight is where your gonna get the first part of how to do it and you have listen
and you have to think about it. It was very difficult to translate this section
because it's so foreign to the human mind. You know, I think here, I imagine
Master Shantideva floating up off his throne about here. He didn't really do it
until the ninth chapter, I don't' remember. I imagine him, I mean, you get a
physical emotion of him leaving us behind at this point. Because he's, he's gonna
be giving us arguments that are so foreign and so against our normal way of
thinking that it was very hard to translate and it was very hard to think about it.
So, see if you can catch it. This is where we part the men from the boys, we call it
{kelwa}. {Kelwa} means, "do you have the spiritual goodness within you, to hear
what's about to happen." And some people in this room who have {kelwa}, will
get it and some people will not get it. And for me it was very difficult, I felt this
emotion of Shantideva, Master Shantideva almost passing me. You know, going
so high that I couldn't, couldn't figure out what he was talking about. So try to
hang in there, okay? Try to ignite your {kelwa}, you know, it's hard. It's very
hard. What we're about to present is very hard for the human mind to handle.
And if you have {kelwa}, it'll floor you and if you don't have kelwa, you'll just
think, "Sounds kind of weird." And most of us are somewhere in between.
Okay, but let's go ahead, okay. {Dak} means, "me", {shen}, means, "other
people". {Nyamba} means, "exactly the same, exactly the same. "Me and other
people, exactly the same. The practice that you're going to hear about tonight,
you know, very sacred practice, very holy practice, the holiest thing you could
ever meditate on, okay, is how to treat yourself and others exactly the same.
How to treat yourself and other people exactly the same. How to be as worried
about other people's happiness as you would about your own. How to be as
worried about other peoples pain as you are about your own. I got this cold
today, you know and I was really worried about it, you know, I spent allot of
time focusing on myself and how bad I felt and then I realized that a friend of
mine got Lymes disease a couple, like a week ago. And I remember he was like
sweating and he obviously had a fever and I was just sweating from this little
cold and then I was reflecting on how much stronger my emotion was about
myself who has a cold that's gonna go away and then on this other person who
has something potentially very dangerous, you know. And I'm much more
worried about my little fever from my cold, you know. And, why? You know,
what causes that? And could I ever reach a point where, where I was, I treated
his exactly the same as I treat myself. As I was worried about him as much as I
was about myself. Could I ever do that? That's this practice. Very, very holy
practice, {dakshen nyamba}.         Say {dakshen}, [repeat], {nyamba}, [repeat],
{dakshen}, [repeat], {nyamba}, [repeat]. Just to say the word and to say the
word in a persons lifetime is {kelwa}. You know, you have to be a karmic
millionaire to hear this word, you know, you have to be a karmic millionaire just
to hear this holy word. Say, {dakshen}, [repeat], {nyamba}, [repeat]. Okay, go
ahead.

Hector: Contemplation fifteen: "They are a part of you too."

There are many separate parts, the hands and all the rest, but we dearly care for
them all as a single body. Just so should I work for the happiness of every
different being, treating all as equal, all as one. Thinking of their joy and pain as
if it were my own.
Here we start to get into an argument, okay. Shantideva starts to present the
idea to other people. He says, "Look, you should treat other people exactly as
you treat yourself." I mean, just the word is weird, I mean, you won't hear that
on Second Avenue anywhere. You know, you hear lots of different languages
and different words but you don't hear people saying, "You should treat people
exactly the same as you treat yourself. And, he starts to, we start to hear a
{kachig}. {Kachig} means, someone comes and starts to fight with Master
Shantideva and says, "You know, sounds great, can't do it." you know. And he
starts to complain, he starts to raise objections, he starts to attack Master
Shantideva and he says, you know, "You're too idealistic, this is impossible, this
thing you're talking about, it can't happen. And his first objection is this one; and
he says, "Look, there are so many types of beings, you know, first there's all
these different kinds of people and then there's all these different kinds of
animals, and then there must be people on other planets." And if you're a
Buddhist or even if you're not a Buddhist, there must be other realms, there
must be other beings in other places that we can't see. You know, you could call
them other dimensions, it doesn't matter, but there must be other people,
thinking beings in places that we are not aware of. In the way that we are not
aware of all the colors in the spectrum. I think the human eye can see a tiny part
of the spectrum. Believe me, the human mind can only grasp a small part of the
living spectrum. There are beings that's we can't see, there are beings around us
that you cannot see. They're all there and somebody makes the objection to
Manjush...Master Shantideva, how on earth could I ever treat them as myself
because then i would have to think of them as myself. You know, I would have
to treat those people as myself before i would have to teat them like myself.
Okay, that's a big leap, and you have to get that leap. T treat someone as
yourself, you would almost have to start thinking of them as yourself and that's
a big jump. This is what Master Shantideva is saying. At this point, the theory is,
you have to treat, you have to start actually looking at other people as yourself,
okay. And that's a very profound idea. And the objection is that, the immediate
objection is. look, too many, you know, how could there be so many Michael
Roaches running around. I couldn't take care of that many people, you know, if
I had to buy shoes for everybody i this room? I can hardly buy them for myself,
you know. How can I, if I related to everybody else in this room, you know
twice as many as the people in most cases. How could I ever do it? You know,
how could I ever see everyone in this room as myself and that's the whole
question and that's a very profound question. You know, where does me end?
Does "me" end at my skin? Does the "me" self existentially and naturally and
inherently end at the end of my skin.? And that's the whole question tonight,
does Michael Roach end at the end of Michael Roaches skin, you know, we'll
include the arm hairs too, okay. Does he end at the end of that hair? How does
that happen that we decide that? Is that fixed in stone? Is that self existent? You
know, does it always have to be that way? Does, what we call Michael roach
have to bee limited to the ends of my fingers? Could it ever go further, could it
ever go less? I have this concept, I have this definition of "me" and it covers to, to
the edge of my body, normally and then if you're possessive, it covers to your
things. Like if someone came into my briefcase, someone today wanted to
borrow my computer and I was like....Michael Roach extends to this computer
already, you know, it felt very uncomfortable. Ultimately I said "no." And, and
what I'm saying is that I have chosen to extend myself out a little further than
my hand, it's the immediate possessions that I own and this is Michael Roach for
me. And if something happens to one of them, Michael Roach gets mad. And,
and so the person complains to Master Shantideva and says, "How could I ever
think about all these people in this room as Michael Roach, you know, I don't see
how I could do it. And then Master Shantideva, he's a very great logician, he's a
great debater and I think the greatness of his debating is that you don't know
he's a great debater, he just says great things. So he says, "Think about your
hand and think about your legs, you know, how many?" The guy says, "Two
hand, two legs." And he says, "Are they you or not?" And the guy says, "Well,
they're part of me, you know, they're part of my body. So Master Shantideva
says, "Are they one thing or are they many things?" And he says, "Well, there's
four, you know, and ten fingers and ten toes, we can say twenty, count the hand
and the feet, twenty-four." Something like that, there's allot, fingers and toes,
there's allot. And then he says, "Is that you or not?" And he says, "Well I guess
that is me." And he says, "Why?" And he says, "Cause if somebody comes and
tries to cut my finger, I get mad." You know I try to protect that thing, do that
must be me. That must be part of what I consider is me, because if someone
tries to hurt it, I'm like fighting with them, I'm like pushing them. You know, if
someone tries to some and stick a knife in your hand, in your finger, then you're
like pushing them back, because you believe this is part of you, you believe that
it's part of you. So Shantideva says, "So what's the difference, you know, it's just
he belief that' it's part of you that makes you push the other person. You have
decided to limit what you call Michael Roach to your skin and to the things that
you own immediately, you've decided to do that and when someone attacks
it...... so why not decide to spread it a little bit, you know, what's the difference,
your fingers and your toes are plural, they are not one Michael Roach, But you
choose to decide, this is Michael Roach and you protect it with your life, you
know, someone comes up and sticks a knife in your little finger, you're in their
face and you're hitting them. You know, you make that decision, where you
decide. So, he says, "Don't think it's independent, don't think it's self existent.
Don't think it has t be that way. You're choosing, to, to, to do it that way and
you could just as well decide, Michael Roach spreads to the first three pews and
you could decide that al of these people are Michael Roach also. It's all in your
mind. Where you decide "you" ends and where you decide "you" begins is a
decision, it's a mental thing. Much of it is forced on you by your past karma.
Okay, you have a perception, I mean, bodhisattvas have overcome that karma.
They actually don't think that Michael Roach ends here. Michael Roach ends
somewhere at David Sykes back and he's me and if he gets in trouble, I get in
trouble and they've actually, from their karma, they are actually perceiving that
Michael Roach ends at the back of David Sykes and he is me. You know, as far
as taking care of him, he is me, I have to take care of him, because he is like part
of me, it's like taking care of my own fingers and my own toes. You decide that
"me" is going to spread to your fingers, five, ten toes. So decide that "me" is
going to spread to the back of David Sykes. Can your karma change? Can you
actually come to see, "me", Michael Roach as spreading to the back of David
Sykes, so I have to take good care of him the way I take care of Michael Roach.
Yes, of course. How? Oh, very Shantidevian. Okay, practice. And do you start
the first day at the back of David Sykes? No. You start with something smaller
that he needs. You start with what? Right, you start with what? Potatoes and
carrots. You start with potatoes. You cannot do it if you do this big schpeal, if
you go out of here tonight and say, "Everyone in Manhattan is Tessie Davies,
you know and he who stubs his toe, I stub my toe and I will run to you with a
bandaid." Forget it you can't do it, you have to start small and you have to start
modest and you have to keep practicing and there's no reason then, very
Shantidevian, if you keep doing it every day and you keep working on your
mind, there's no reason why, why "me" has to end here, you know, "me" could
end over there. And then I could watch out for David Sykes the same way I
watch out for myself. And that's liberation, that's freedom, that's, that's like the
happiest you could ever be, if you'd achieve it. Start small and work on it and
then go to the other side. Yes?

student: [unclear]

Jim said, "The difference between our fingers and their fingers is pretty obvious."
I mean if somebody jams my fingers with a knife, it's "Ouch." And if someone
jams his finger with a knife, it's "Oh, too bad man." [laughter] You know and
this is precisely the next objection. And I remember Rinpoche, you know, our
holy Lama teaching this subject twenty five years ago in New York City and
exactly the same question came up. And it's the obvious question, when my
friend gets fired I don't get fired, when my friend gets his hand cut, I don't get
my hand cut. I don't feel the way he feels his pain. So how can I really do it?
How could I ever be as concerned about David Sykes as I am about Michael
Roach. Or and Master Shantideva says, again, "You have to learn to define
yourself as, Michael Roach has to end at his back. But we'll talk about it more, let
me make sure I've got your homework covered. Yeah, so we'll, I mean, that last
contemplation goes like this. In theory and I agree with Jim, the next question
has to be, "But, but I don't go "ouch" when someone sticks a knife into other
people." The point here is that, realize the idea, you decide where you end and
you always have. Okay, there's a certain percentage of your definition of you
which is forced on you by your past karma, you truly believe that Michael Roach
ends at those fingers or at the things that I posses that I care about. You truly
believe that. I mean, when you came out of your mothers womb you were born
with a certain karma that made you think that you end at your fingers. But you
know, I mean the people who've studied emptiness in this room, you know,
that's what do you call it? Arbitrary, that's arbitrary, it could have been any way.
It could have been any other way. You meet people, I mean today I was
thinking about Einstein, I mean his conception of himself ended at the roots of
his hair, because he could care less what his hair looks like. You know, [laughs].
He had a sense of his self that stopped short of his hair, or you meet people
who's sense of self stops short of their clothes. And then you meet other people
who's sense of self totally goes beyond their clothes. Like, this must.... "this is
me, this is part of me, it better look good." And you see both, and you see both,
it's arbitrary. You must realize that. There's nothing fixed in stone about that, it's
arbitrary. It's decided by your past karma and you have a sense of yourself that
is very difficult to deal with, you know, you do have a sense of your self that you
were born with that you can't help, that tells you Michael Roach ends here. In
fact they don't even call him Michael Roach, they call him David Sykes, they gave
him a different name. So apparently most of the people in the world think,
Michael Roach doesn't go to his back, you know and you have to deal with that.
You live in a world created by your karma that says, "He's not you." And that,
I'm over here, and he's over there and that I do not extend beyond him. But
then there's another you and there's a you that you can manipulate, if you chose
to, by practice. You know, that's the big thing that Master Shantideva is saying.
By practice decide you want to do it, start small and eventually, your sense of
view could be bigger than that and you see great saints, Albert Shweitzer,
Mother Theresa, they seem to have overcome the limitation of thinking of
themselves as stopping at their skin. They seen to have, Mother Theresa to
Mother Theresa I would imagine, extends to many suffering people. I would
believe that actually, to some extent perceives them as herself, and when she
takes care of them it's as natural as brushing her own teeth. You know, I believe
that. And, and we have to, we're stuck with this sort of perception of ourselves
that we were born with, but it's not written in stone, it's not self existent. It is
arbitrary, you can work in it and you must work on it. Because you cannot
reach happiness unless you do. Impossible, okay, you must learn to extend the
definition of you to, beyond your skin or you will fail, you will not succeed, this
path will mean nothing to you, this is the key. Okay, you have... it's not take
care of other people as yourself. It's, it's perceive them as yourself and then take
care of yourself, okay, got it? It's not taking care of other people as yourself, it's
realizing that they are you. And then take care of them, because you are taking
care of yourself and when you take care of your fingers it's not like there's a big
obligation. You know, you don't say, "Oh today, fingers, you're in really good
luck today, you know, I've decided to take care of you, I'm gonna clip your
finger nails today, cause I'm feeling so magnanimous today." You know, you
don't say that. You consider them you. And there will come a day when each
person in this room looks around and sees actually the other people as
themselves. And when they take care of another person, it's because they
actually see them as themselves. They have actually stretched the definition of
themselves out pat their skin. There is no reason that it has to stop here, except
for this thing about pain and we have to talk about it. I mean, somebody rubs
this other guys back and I don't get a thrill. Okay, we have to talk about that and
that's a reasonable objection, but, in theory, there's no reason why is has to end
here. In theory, what you decide is yourself is up to you. You have limitations
that you were born with. I almost used a bad word. Blank them, okay? You
don't have to live with them. You can choose, you can choose where you ends.
Okay, yeah.

student: [unclear]

She said, "When you see others as yourself, is that a kind of protection?"

student: [unclear]

What I'm saying is that the day that you treat others as you do yourself it will be
because you see them as yourself. And that's the key.

student: [student]

She says, "it's a kind of protection." Of course it is. I mean, there's this big
controversy nowadays about this protector deity, big, big controversy. People
killing each other. What is the real protection? I mean the scriptures are very
clear, it's compassion. It's not some guy with a black face and four ears and big
ears or something like that. It's not that, the nature of that being is compassion.
The nature of that being is pure love. When you get it, it is the ultimate
protection for yourself. Of course. When you go into retreat and you do these
elaborate protection rituals which we have learned and which we do, in, the
bottom line is bodhichitta. If you don't want bogeyman coming into your
retreat and ruining it, which morally comes in the form of thoughts about the
guy at work and ruining your retreat, you put up this bodhichitta fence. You
know, you put up this wall of love around you and it protects you, and you have
to learn to do that and that's a protection. I think one more.... Yeah, I'll rephrase
it. It's a tenet of Buddhism, it's one of the basic truths of Buddhism, it's one of the
grounding truths of Buddhism that we are separate mindstreams, okay, it's like, I
always say it's like an infinite spaghetti noodle and they never mix, never ever. I
mean, even up till the time that you become enlightened, my mindstream and
your mind stream will never join, cannot.               Because by definition, your
mindstream is the, is the karmic result of your own past deeds and can never be
anything else. I cannot collect good karma for you. I cannot take away your
bad karma, I can't do anything, you must do it yourself and that's a guiding
principal of Buddhism. Even when you become a Buddha, even though they
have the same nature, they are separate beings and they have their own Buddha
Paradises and they live their own separate lives and, and this is forever going to
be like that. And so she says, you know, "Where does your thing come in there?'
That's true and you are separate mental continuae and I cannot collect good
karma for you even after I decide to include you in the definition of myself.
Okay, so that's the answer to you question. It is not true that you will ever
become me. You'll never become my mental continuum. You know, you
cannot share my karma, you can only collect your own karma and collect your
own results of your own karma. That's why Buddhas are not omnipotent.
Okay, they cannot take away your pain, they cannot take away one atom of
your pain and they cannot give you one atom of your happiness, impossible. All
they can do is teach you to do it yourself. What's the proof of that? It's so simple
that you miss it. We're still suffering, so either they're sadists, or they can't do it.
Okay, there's only two choices. You know, they're playing with these little bugs
and making them suffer or they can't do anything. All they can do is to teach
you to do it yourself. It doesn't affect you mindstream, it doesn't affect your
karmic flow that I think of you as myself or even that I believe that you are
myself, that's true. Yeah?

student: [unclear]
[laughs] What about the bodhisattva who is happily giving away his eyeball?
Does that mean that when you achieve, {dakshen nyamba}, I can give away
David Sykes eyeball? [laughter] That's a {lung matin chunshi}. That's one of the
unanswered questions. Yeah, by the way, that does come up and Master
Shantideva does address that and Master Shantideva says, "No, you can't you
don't have the right to take another persons ....".

student: [unclear]

No it's not. The perception of him being me is only so far as in achieving his
happiness and eliminating his pain. Not to cause him new pain. No, impossible.
Next verse is for Mr., Jim Halperin. Go ahead Hector.

Hector: "What makes pain mine?"

Suppose you object and you say that your pain never hurts the body of another?
Even so, your pain is something that you can bear, just for one reason, your
grasping to yourself. Just so, even though it's true that suffering others feel
never comes and strikes you, still it's your suffering, since you'll find them hard
to bear, once you grasp to yourself. This is the answer to Jim's question and it
has to some up in the mind of any intelligent person. You know, if you sit here
and by everything without objecting when you should object, it's very
suspicious. Rinpoche, would say, "Oh, you know everything." Meaning you
haven't been listening at all and the objection that you should have had didn't
come up in your mind. You should object at that point, the hands should be up
in the air. You know, I can, I can change my conception of me, but that doesn't
mean that I can feel him, when he gets stuck with a pin. Or if he gets his back
scratched, you know, I don't feel my back getting scratched. Okay, and this is
Master Shantidevas answer. Suppose you object and you say that your pain
never hurts the body of others. And he goes both ways, he says, "When I get
hurt, it's not going to hurt David Sykes. When David Sykes gets hurt, it's not
going to hurt me. Even so, your pain is something that you cannot bear for just
one reason, your grasping to yourself." Meaning, the fact that you don't like
pain, the fact that you can't stand pain that comes to you, comes from only one
thing. And that's your own decision of where you define yourself and that's
very subtle, and you gotta catch it, okay. The fact that you find any particular
pain, or suffering unbearable. You know, you decide, "I have to do something
now." Unbearable means what? I must act know, this must not go on. It only
occurs with yourself, within the limitations of what you have set for yourself. In
other words you have this boundary that's you've defined as me and it's up to
you. You are born with a certain boundary and I say, blank that boundary, you
don't have to leave that boundary there and in fact you cannot reach
enlightenment if you do put up with that boundary. That boundary is not fixed,
but you're born with a certain boundary, certain perceptions caused by your past
karma. So, it's you who decides that, one my boss crosses this line, I an not
going to stand up with it any more. You know, they can, people can use my
credit card to a certain point, but when it gets over that limit, that's it, I will take
action. People can say things to me to a certain point, but when it goes past a
certain thing, that's all I can take. I can share my friends and the things I own
with other people, but only up to a point. But I mean, if they do that with them,
that 's too much. You know, then I must act. This is what Master Shantideva
calls, {sukawa}. {Sukawa} means, this is what you define as the limit of what you
can stand. And I can't, what is it that Popeye said? [laughter] No..... what is it?
How does it go? You don't have to remember the whole line? "It's all I can stand
and I can't stand no more." You know, [laughter], it's like, you decide, you
decide where it is, you know and that's what I'm saying. And different people,
you know they have different envelopes, you know, I mean, really good people,
you can see them even get hit or cut and they won't get angry. You know, what
they declare is not standable anymore, not bearable anymore is very, very
narrow. And then you see other people you know, who, if you say something
bad about their cat, they are already angry. You know, I mean their definition of
themselves is pretty big and indefensible by the way. You know, of what they'll
put up with is too big. And Master Shantideva is saying, this line is up to you.
So, very, very interesting question to Jim Halperts question and I've always
wondered about it, it's always been a struggle for me too. Master Shantideva, in
My opinion is backing down, he's saying, Your right, I cannot......[cut]              David
Sykes with a knife, but what I decide is the limit of what I can stand to put up
with is up to me and I chose not to put up with someone sticking a knife in
David Sykes. You know, I choose to expand what I will put up with t o him and
that's profound, that's very, very profound. You know, I choose not to bear his
suffering, you know, when I see him being uncomfortable, you know, when I
see him suffering, I choose that I must respond to it the way that I respond to
my own suffering, even though I can't feel it. That's what Master Shantideva is
saying. So he's still, I, I, it's just fantastic, it's fantastic. It's you know, and I think
it clarifies allot of things, cause you always feel guilty that you can't quite feel the
other guys fever as much as you can feel your own. You know, it's almost like,
gee, I wish, maybe I'm not empathetic enough. That's not the point, you just
have to decide that you will not put up with his fever any more than you will put
up with your own and that's what it means to treat yourself and others exactly
the same, You make a decision, will not put up with any kind of depression on
my friend. When she has depression, I will act. I will treat her mind as my own.
I decide to expand my definition of Michael Roach. That you can do without
feeling her depression, you see what I mean? And it's a beautiful question
because you have to answer that question. Yeah? It's allot harder, it's allot
harder.

student: [unclear]

Yeah, yeah, sure, you can't deal all of their pain, put if you cared, if you decided it
was yours, you would observe, you would get very good at observing. You
know, you would get of empathy so good that as soon as they're jealous, you
know, and you're already helping.....[cut].
....observing, you know, you would get some kind of empathy so good that as
soon as they're jealous, you know and you're already helping them get over it,
you're working with them, you sense, you get very good at it, if you are sincere
about it, you can feel others pain pretty, pretty instinctively, pretty intuitively.
You can gain a kind of intuition where you are very sensitive to others pain and
you can start helping immediately. You know, and that's a goal and you ca do it,
but you must stop thinking of yourself as stopping at you skin. Again, it's not
written in stone, nobody has decided that, the whole world has decided that, you
know, blank the whole world, you know, we can make our own decisions, I
choose to extend the definition of myself to, to that next person, and when is
bothering them, I chose to decide that I cannot stand it anymore and I will do
something, you know, when they want something, I choose to decide I will get it
for them as much as if I wanted it for myself. That's really hard. Something you
really want and then somebody else wants the same thing. And, and to make
the decision that they have as much right to it as I do. Why? Cause they are me.
That's profound, that's very profound. Yeah.

student: [unclear]

Oh, it's a great question. I mean, this guy is calling back to the point that, that
really, all these things are karmic results, right, you know, Mark Minerva is me,
you know, what made you do that? What was the karma that made you do
that. It's ironic, you know, practice is karma. Very interesting, practicing
thinking a certain way, creates the karma to be able to think that way, and
practice is, is also bound by the laws of karma. Practice works because of karma.
Practice is just watching karma create something intentionally.          It's very
interesting. The reason that you get better at skiing because you did it over and
over again is not because you did it over and over again, it's interesting, it's the
karma involved, it's very interesting. Why do people try to learn something and
can? Why do people try to learn something and can't? If practice was what
made perfect, then, everybody should learn it the same, by trying twenty
lessons and that's not the case. What's really happening is the karma of trying
makes it come true, it's the karma of practicing it, that makes it come true. I was
thinking about jealousy the other day, you know, I was having a jealous state of
mind and I was having a, an antidote state of mind. I was punching, we were
having a war, you know, it was like fifty, fifty. And the left side of the brain or
wherever was saying, "That's bad, stop that." And the right side of the brain was
saying like, "No, no, it's true." And there was this big war going on. And then I
was considering the karma, I was saying, what kind of karma are you collecting
right now? You know, I was saying, Let's see, the jealousy is creating really,
really terrible karma, it's like a kind of hatred. I'm losing good karma at a
fantastic rate of speed. It's like, you know. It's like incredible leakage of good
karma eaking out of my brain right now, caused by the jealousy. But the fight is
an incredible good karma, and why? You know, I was wondering why the fight
would be such an incredible good karma. Because the fight is practice. You
know, the fight is a seed for the next day that I'll be able to fight better and then
you know, the fighting of the next day is a seed for the following day that I'll be
able to fight it even better. So really, if you think about it, the virtue of the fight i
infinitely more good then the nastiness of the emotion that I was fighting with
and that's the story. You can overcome it, because practice really means
collecting the karma to see things that way, and you will. And, and you can do
it. You can come to a point where every living being in the universe, those seen
and unseen they say. Those that you can see and those that you are aware of
right now, your decision of whose happiness you're going to work for will
spread to them. And it a really neat experience, it's an extraordinary experience
and you will reach it, you can reach it, you have to practice, you know, you have
to start small, but you can do it and it's incredible, it's just extraordinary and you
will spend the rest of your life working for other people and very, very sweet.
Very, very sweet. Yeah?

student: [unclear]

I think what Julia is saying is that you can make a decision about your own
happiness, you can say, "Look, don't have that emotion, that's really lousy, stop
that." And you can cure yourself, but suppose I, I expand Michael Roach to
David Sykes, sorry okay, like it would be David Roach or something like that
right? And, and I decide to expand to him and I try t o get him to stop his
jealousy the same way I'm trying to stop my own jealousy ad what if.. Julia's
saying, "what if he doesn't feel like doing that right now?" Well, I mean, that's all
you can do. But, I mean, Buddhist ethics, Buddhist virtue, is ninety percent what?
Intention. What did Master Shantideva say about poverty? He said, "If you're
gonna sit around and wait till the day that there's more homeless people in the
world before you say that anyone has perfected giving, forget it. You're gonna
be here forever. Perfecting giving doesn't mean that all the people around you
have enough to eat at all. It's the intention, it's the state of mind it's the
perfection of giving. When you are ready to give your body over a lifetime, to
other people, you've perfected giving, you don't have to worry about it
anymore, it's not that everybody's gonna get what the need, because that's up to
their karma. Okay, so that' s the answer to that. Let's take break and come back
in ten minutes, okay? Okay, Hector's gonna read the next verse, okay. By the
way, the point here is we're kin of moving beyond Jim's question, if someone
else gets happy, if someone else gets their back scratched and someone else
doesn't get their back scratched, how can I, what am I supposed to feel about it,
why am I supposed to work as hard to make sure they get their back scratched,
how can I, how am I supposed to feel about it? Why are you supposed to work
as hard to make sure that they get their back scratched as I am to get my back
scratched, I mean, do you have any proof that this is a reasonable thing to do,
And Master Shantideva says......

Hector: I must stop the pains of others because it's pain, it's like the pain that I
myself feel, I must act to help all others because they are living beings, it's like
the body that I own." I'm going to hit you with some logic, some formal logic.
By the way, I've kind of decided that the first course in ninety-eight if we live that
long, will be some basic logic, okay.         Basic logic subjects, which includes
perceptual theory and stuff like that. So here's a little fore taste okay. Yeah,
Master Shantideva, Gyaltsab Je puts this verse into two logical statements, so
you're gonna get to learn to, the form of a logical statement. Buddhist logic was
invented by? Gautama, okay. Seriously, Buddhist logic was invented by the
Buddha, seriously, and he debated, he used it allot, he debated. And it hasn't
changed at all in two and a half thousand years. This is still the same format. So
we're gonna give you two logical statements, it's called a {tsul sum yinba}, it has a
{tak}, it has a {cheu chen}, it has a{drup je cheu}, it has a {gak je cheu}, it has a
{tunbe yangdak}, and you have to learn all those things, okay, this is formal
logic. Say {semchen}, [repeat], {shengyi}, [repeat], {dukngel}, [repeat], {cheu
chen}, [repeat]. Okay, that's how we debate in the monastery, {semchen shengyi
dukngel cheu chen}, then you go like that, [claps]. [laughter]. And it's like
Mohammed Ali, you know, you're supposed to shake the guy up. And if you
can learn to hold your own while someone is spitting at you, screaming your
face, hitting you're hat off, pulling at you, then when you get in a nice quiet
classroom in New York City and someone asks you a tough question like Jim
Halpern did, you can just calmly answer and it's practice, you know, it's very god
practice. You know, so we do that in the monastery four, five six hours a day,
sometimes fifteen hours a day, you know, attacking and rebuttal. So it's {cheu
chen, semchen}, {semchen} means, "sentient being", living being. {Shen} means,
"another", other ;living beings, okay.        {Dukngel} means, "sufferings", the
sufferings that they have, the pain that they have. {Cheu chen} you have to
learn. {Cheu chen}, "hey, let's talk about that". That's our subject that we're
gonna debate about, {cheu chen} means, "that's the subject debate" I propose,
let's talk about {semchen shengyi dukngel cheu chen}, okay, and that's how you
open a debate, okay, you put out the thing that you're gonna argue about, okay,
let's fight about other people's suffering. I want to talk about other peoples
suffering, {cheu chen}, okay. Say, {dakkyi}, [repeat], {selwar}, [repeat], {rikte},
[repeat], okay. {Dakkyi} means, "by me". {Selwar} means, "to remove". {Rikte},
{rik}, means, "that is something right to do. {Rik}, means, "it's right to do." Okay,
something right, correct to do, okay. That is something right to do. {Dakkyi sel
rikte}, it's right that I should try to remove their suffering. Consider other
peoples suffering, {semchen shengyi dukngel cheu chen, dakkyi selwar rikte!}
Okay, it is something that I should work to remove, why? We're looking for the
{tak}, {tak}, means, "the reason". What was the reason? Say, {dukngel}, [repeat],
{yinbe}, [repeat], {chir}, [repeat]. You know and you go like that. {Dukngel
yinbe chir}. {Dukngel} means what? Suffering. {Yinbe chir}, means, "because it's
suffering". Okay, so what's the full proof? By the way here you have the {cheu
chen, drup je cheu, ta yang dak}. It has a {kyabba}, it has a {chok che}, it has {je
kyab, dok kyab}, perfect logical statement. It has all the requirements. Consider
the pain that other people feel, it is something that I should work to remove,
because it's pain. Okay and that's profound and it just goes over your head. You
sit there and say, "Okay.", [laughter], sounds okay. But it's, yeah?

student: [unclear]

She's pointing out that if you do feel empathy, or if someone else is felling really
bad and you start to feel bad with them, if you, that's also some kind of karma
that you had. But it's also some kind of karma that you have. But it's a different
kind in that it's a sweetness, like people have always asked me and it's a good
question, you know, the Buddhas sense our suffering, does that means that they
have suffering? No, they have this sweet concern for our suffering, but they
don't feel suffering, they, they know we are suffering, they perceive that
suffering as well as we do, but they, their reaction to it is some kind of sweet
compassion, so actually they're getting some kind of sweetness out of it, it's very
interesting, but you, you are right that it would be our karma to do that, okay,
anyway the point here is this and it's very profound, don't let it go over you
head, try to get the{kelwa}, okay? One, two three, suffering is something that
you and I are responsible to remove where ever it is located, if it happens to be
outside the border of what you happen to call yourself, or inside the border of
what you call yourself is irrelevant. You're just making a mistake on the border,
the border is big and any suffering in the world is something that you are
responsible to address, and you must address, whether it's in someone mind or
international or whatever or the person sitting next to you. But suffering is
something to fight against no matter where it's located. And forget this
distinction of "you", and "me", because if you make the decision, with practice,
you can include other people into what you would call "Michael Roach". They
will be "Michael Roach". And then any suffering in you or in me, meaning me, or
me, becomes unacceptable. You know and we won't put with that, you decide,
you won't put up with that. We decide, I will not put up with that. You know,
it's as if it was me hurting. It is me hurting. Forget the "as if", okay? Forget the
"as if", it's, it's, when David Sykes is down, I'm down and I must take steps to do
something about it. And that's profound that's very profound. Any suffering
that's going on, is something that I have to attack, period. It doesn't matter if it's
artificial that you say that it's someone else's suffering, so I don't have to work on
it as hard as I have to work on my own. That's an artificial decision and that's a
sick decision and it creates allot of bad Karma. It's allot smarter, it's infinitely
more intelligent to forget the boundary of what you call you and me, and any
suffering that anyone in this room is feeling, is unacceptable to everyone in this
room. They are all our suffering, okay, same as my own, okay?

student: [unclear]

Yeah, because it is a suffering.

student: But it doesn't talk about the [unclear]....

We gotta get to the {tunpay}, {tunpay yangdak, tunpay yangdak}, good, here we
go to the {tunpay}, I bet it will answer your question. {Per na}, there's one more
part to the statement. Say {per na}, {repeat],{dakki}, [repeat] {dukgnel}, [repeat],
{shinno}, [repeat].     {Perna}, [repeat], {dakkyi}, [repeat], {dukgnel}, [repeat],
{shinno}, [repeat]. I'll give you, I want you to practice something for February,
January, can you say, {Dra cheu chen}, [repeat], say {dra}, [repeat], {cheu chen}.
Say, {dra}, [repeat, {cheu chen}, [repeat], {mi tak}, [repeat], {te}, [repeat], {chepa},
[repeat], {yinbe}, [repeat], {chir}, [repeat], {per na}, [repeat], {bumpa}, [repeat],
{shinno}, [repeat]. Okay, that's what all twelve year olds in the monastery learn,
okay. {Dra cheu chen mi tak te chep yinbe chir perna bumba shinno}. {Perna}, is
called, {tunbey yangdak}. {Per na}, means, "I'll give you an example to prove the
example that I just gave you". {Per na}, means, "for example", and its a part of a
logical presentation. When you present a logical statement, in Asian logic, you
must give this. {per na}, means, "for example", I'll give you something that you
can accept and then you'll believe what I said about other people's pain. I'll give
you an example of what you can accept and if you accept that example you must
accept what I just said, and by the way, you can only give an example that the
person accepts. If you give an example that the person doesn't accept, even if it's
true in Buddhist logic, it's a false statement. Very interesting, I'll repeat that. If
you give an example to someone that they cannot personally understand of
accept, that they already accept, then your statement is false, even if the example
that you gave was true. It's not allowed in Buddhism to make an argument to
someone, using components that they don't accept, it's bad logic, it's very
interesting. That's not true in Western logic, that's very interesting. {Per na
dakkyi dukgnel shinno}. {Dak}, means, "my". {dakkyi}, {dukngel} means
"sufferring", {shin}, means, {shinno} means, "it's like my own suffering". Okay,
let's consider other peoples pain, it is something that I must personally take
responsibility to remove because it's pain. Prove it. Just like your own pain,
same thing.      Okay, and that's am airtight logical statement in Buddhism,
Dharmakirti, Shantideva, Master Shantideva, Master Dharmakirti, Gyalstab Je.
Gyaltsab Je was on of the greatest logicians Tibet ever saw, he probably was
actually, next to Khen Rinpoche, no, [clap]. But this is the logical statement and
this is profound and this is totally true and what it means is that you cannot
tolerate sufferring where ever it existed because it's the same as you own, if you
were going to get more radical you would say, it is you own. Okay, it is your
own, you cannot put up with suffering in any mental continuum that exists in the
world, you should not tolerate it anymore, and I'll give you an example, if you
have friends, close friends, and they seem to be having mental afflictions, which
you never know for sure, right? They could be Buddhas, you never know, but if
they seem to be having a mental affliction, it's your responsibility to help them
remove it. Why? Sooner or later it will cause you as much suffering as it's
causing them, believe me, if someone's a friend of you, and they are doing
something wrong in support of you, you tend to think it's okay, you know what
I mean? If someone close to you is having a mental affliction and particularly if it
benefits you at that moment, you're kind of thinking, "Well that's okay." But
ultimately it will hurt everyone, What I'm trying to say is that anytime you see a
state of suffering, either actual suffering or potential suffering, you must do
something about it, your have to do something about it. Okay, it hurts
everyone, any suffering in the world hurts everyone. You must take steps to
stop any suffering in the world. Forget this idea of who you are and until you
do that, you will never reach enlightenment, you will never be happy. Period,
won't happen, can never will happen, just never will happen. Okay, you must
forget this idea that there is a limit to me, okay, forget it, yeah?

student: [unclear]

Pelma pointed this out, suppose I see someone suffering and she said, "Suppose
it's just your perception and they're not really sufferring." I'll give you an
example; The Dalai Lama, His Holiness the Dalai Lama is getting, appears to be
getting bald, so suppose i sent him some Rogain, or something you know,
[laughter]. I'm not being disrespectful, because he's the greatest, one of the
greatest Lamas in the world, up there with Khen Rinpoche and stuff and a few
others. Does he see himself suffering? Maybe not, you know, maybe he sees
himself as this beautiful Avaloketeshvara, shining in whit light, with this long
beautiful flowing hair, you know, every one still there you know, and it's my
karma to see him as a normal person getting old. By the way that's exactly the
emptiness of His Holiness the Dalai Lama, right? I still have to act to remove
that, suffering, that's a good question, I still must act., okay. When we all get
enlightened we'll all be running around helping each other, even though we are
all enlightened already because that's what we should do. Okay, yeah.

student: [unclear]

[laughs], This is the opposite of schizophrenia, this is like , anyway, she asked, I
mean there is a limit to what you can do, Marvin asked me this question. He
was talking about his credit card limit and how much he wanted to help other
people, but that he was reaching his max, you know, which is happening to me a
few weeks ago, [laughter]. So, and what I said to Marvin is what Master
Shantideva says over and over again, "a responsible bodhisattva must do what
they can do and that's all that they can do. So if all you have is twenty dollars
and you give away that twenty dollars or you give away whatever is left over
one you have taken care of whatever responsibilities you already have, you
have perfected giving. Period. And that's no problem. Conversely, the Buddha
has specifically prohibited us from doing more than we can do happily. If you
get to a point where you are starting to feel bad about it, or feel like it's being an
imposition on you, or, or particularly if you might go back on it later, you are
prohibited by the Buddha, specifically, from giving that object. You have to wait
until you build up your strength, you know, you have to wait until you build up
your spiritual strength , so yeah, that depends on your own level and in Buddhist
ethics and in Buddhist bodhisattva activity, you're required to stick to that level,
you know, you're required to, you're prohibited from giving away joyfully more
than you can give away at any given time, okay, but you must work to build up
to that level, okay. Okay, let's, let's, we go one more logical proof here. By the
way, this is very profound, but I mean, I didn't see anyone fall off their chair, but
anyway, it means, you cannot put up with, you, you, it means, you cannot put
up with, we have to reach a point where we will not tolerate suffering no matter
what persons mind it's in. Okay, if we see someone suffering, we must go after
it and forget this distinction between me and you, because, just because I'm not
feeling it, whether or not you can feel it, by practice, it can learn to be intolerable
to you and you have to practice. You'll reach a point where another persons
pain is intolerable to you as much as your own. Even though you're not feeling
it directly. Yeah?

student: [unclear]

I think what John said is ultimately, and I'm not going to get too deep into that,
because I'm not supposed to okay, you're right. What other people are is very
much depending on, on your own conceptions, so really, what might be
happening is that one conception is helping another conception and that's fine,
that is actually dependent origination of bodhisattva behavior, but that's a long
story, okay. We can, I don't know if this stuff erasing too much, put, scratch out
this one, and put {dewa}, this way I have to work less. I mean, you have to work
less, [laughter]. Master Shantideva is constantly saying, "I don't work that way."
okay. Like since me and Nigel are the same, I'll go have a nice milkshake and
he'll enjoy it, no, you have to make sure that he gets a nice milkshake, okay.
Say, {semchen}, [repeat], {shengyi}, [repeat], {dewa}, [repeat], {cheu chen}. Okay,
{dakkyi}, [repeat], {drupar}, [repeat], {rikte}. Okay, {semchen shengyi dewa}
means, now lets flip it around let's talk about other peoples happiness. Let's
consider other peoples happiness. {Dakki drupar rikte}, it is something which I
should work to bring about, I should work for other peoples happiness. Why?
Here comes the reason. [cut] ....{parupo}, [repeat], {semchen}, [repeat]], {yinbe
chir}, [repeat]. {Semchen} means, "living being". {Parupo} means, "that one over
there", okay, that one over there. {Semchen yinbe chir}, "because that person
over there is a person. Because that person over there is a person. {Ta yang
dak}, correct reason. Airtight proof, okay. Consider living beings, consider this
guy over there, consider this person, it's very true that I should work to acheive
every kind of happiness, because that guy over there is a person. And that's the
only proof that you need, if they are a living, suffering person, you have to try
to get them some happiness, period. {Perna}, for example, say {perna}, [repeat],
{dakkyi lu}, [repeat], {shinno}. {Per na}, [repeat], {dakkyi lu}, [repeat], {shinno},
[repeat]. {Per na} means, "for example", {dakkyi} means "my". {Lu}, means,
"body". {Shinno} means, "it's like my own body", they're like my own body.
And you, you just have to try to imagine this, it is so holy and sacred that it's
very, very difficult to imagine, it's very, very difficult to, to imagine this, okay,
and, and it's, it's so important that it's, it's so beyond us that we can't quite grasp
it. But, you must try in your life, to bring happiness to other people, because it's
the same thing as making yourself happy. It's exactly the same thing. And that's
{dak shen nyamba}. Okay, that, you must do that. And what I'm trying to say is
this, it's very, very profound and very, very holy, is that you must work to
create a state of happiness, anywhere it can be created, it's your job. Forget the
fact that there is ten feet between you, You know, forget the fact that you are
not going to directly, personally feel the pleasure that they feel. You must create
any happiness you can in the world. Any little happiness that can be created in
any little persons mind in the whole world, it's your responsibility and your
honor and you pleasure to go create it. Okay, it's very cool, it's very profound,
you know. It doesn't matter whether it's in your mind or in another persons
mind, it doesn't matter anymore, you are one person, you know. It leaves a, it's
really cool cause there's allot more happinesses you can make than if you are
limited to your own body and your own mind. Just think of all of the
happinesses that you can create. I'm not limited to one body and one mind
anymore, I'm, I'm liberated, you know, I get as much excitement out of making
sure that he gets what he wants, then what I do out of making sure that I get
what I want. I would just as soon that he get this incredible pleasure that i would
love to have, I'm dying to have it, but okay, let's make another one. And you
create this pleasure and you, and you, it doesn't a matter that it seems to be
another persons mind, it's not, it's yours. Just imagine what it would feel like, I
mean Eddie Murphy, fat man movie, I mean, suppose you are so fat that you
covered the whole United states, you know, and that any happiness that anyone
got was your happiness. You know and you could just go around the United
States just trying to create happinesses in people's minds, and it would be yours
and how, how, radical or profound that would be that you're just going around
trying to create new happinesses, and you are not bound by what you call
yourself. That would be profound, that would be so happy, you know, that
would be so liberating, not to be bound by what you call yourself. You know,
and it's, I just say try it on a very little level, right? Shantidevian exercise
program. And try it on a very, very small level, like imagine what would make
another person happy. Particularly, if you have to give it up for what you call
yourself. Share it with someone else you know, give it to them, give it to them
and watch it and see how it feels. Just try it, I can't do anything else you know, I
can describe it to you, I can quote the verbs, you know, and the logic, but just
check it out, you know, purposely, especially when it's at your quote own
expense, which it's not. Go take some happiness and go plant it in somebody
else that you really want and just sit there and enjoy it, and if you get used to
that, there is no feeling like that and you will truly be liberated, really, you'll be
really, everything will be happy for you, your whole life will be happy,
incredibly happy, you know, incredibly happy. Everyone's trying to be happy,
right? I mean, six million people, I don't know, there's like one million people go
through the Port Authority every morning. Why? I used to have this, old, old
Mongolian Lama, you know and we would sit on the side of highway nine, you
know, and he's say, he'd pull me down, you know and we'd sit on this bench and
he's say, "Look at the cars." You know, and I'd be like, "No, no, I've got to go
study." And he'd be like, "No, no look at the cars." And we'd sit and look at the
cars, you know. He like had TB and one lung and he says, "Look, look,
everybody." And I said, "What?" And he says, "Everybody." And I say, "I don't
know, what?" And he says, "They are all going somewhere." And I said, "Yeah,
they're all going somewhere." [laughs] And he says, "Yeah, but you know
why?" And I said, "No, why?" And he says, "Everybody wants something." Like
the reason that car is moving is that there is a person in there who wants
something. And he's like, "Look at all these people who want something." And
he like, "Check it out." And I'm like, "Yeah, okay, they all want something." you,
know. But what I'm saying is that you can, I mean six million people in New
York are running around like ants in the city trying to get something. You
know, and you can't get it. I've tried all the coffee shops in the East Village. This
morning I was trying to find one that I haven't had breakfast in yet. I couldn't
find one. I finally bumped into Tessie and she took me to a new one, thanks.
But, you know, there's nothing to make you happy, it won't it doesn't you know,
try this out check it out, it's extraordinary, you feel really, really happy. It makes
you really, really happy. Go and take some kind of happiness, especially one
that you wanted for yourself and go offer it to someone and then just sit there,
sit back and enjoy it and just make a habit out of it. And you get this vision of
tinkering with other peoples brains, you know, like, I'm gonna give this person
happiness, what's the best way to do it? Okay, they like that and they have this
kind of expectation and they are kind of down about that, and okay, I've got that
kind of happiness for them. And then you get it all ready and then you sit back
and you just enjoy it. It's like putting a light in someone else's mind, you know,
and enjoy it and you'll never find any happiness like that, Okay, try it. Okay, last
thing, really, last thing, right. Master Shantideva, being a logician, has one more
proof for us. And he says, "It's wrong to do the opposite of what I just described,
it's very, very wrong. Wait for awhile, okay. It's very, very wrong to do the
opposite of what I described. What's the opposite? Just to be concerned with
your own happiness. Okay, just to worry about you and just to try to stop your
own suffering, very, very wrong, profoundly wrong. A profound mistake. And
it breaks all the laws of nature and all the laws of logic. Why? Because we grew
up in... and by the way, the people in this room, I salute you. You are struggling,
not only against your own mind, you are struggling against your own culture,
you are struggling against hundreds and hundreds of years of culture which tell
you that it's right to watch out for number one. You know, you should try to
take care of yourself. You are not responsible for every homeless person in
New York, you know, you can't do it. "You, you just watch out for yourself, you
know, take care of yourself. Your, your whole upbringing
, your thousands and thousands of past lives, your whole culture, TV,
magazines, what your parents told you, your school, the world, you know, you
are bucking the whole world and it's almost impossible, but you are supposed to,
supposedly you are going to go out and prove why it's wrong to watch out for
yourself only. And that's what Master Shantideva is going to do. Very
profound, I mean, is one sentence on a Tuesday night at nine twenty, when
you're already very tired, going to buck the whole world? And, and everything
you ever heard? Well, let's see, I don't know, okay. {Dak dang}, [repeat], {shen},
[repeat], {nika}, [repeat], {dewa}, [repeat], {dupa}, [repeat], {sumba}, [repeat].
Okay, proof why it's the most stupid thing in the world to take care of yourself
only. {Dak dang}, {dak} means, "me", {dang}, means "and", {shen}, means "other
people", {nika} means, "both of us", and he uses a very beautiful word in Tibetan,
it means, "the two of us, "just the two of us", {dewa}, "happiness", {dupar}, "we
want", {er}, "in that", {er}, okay, "in that", {sumba}, "we are exactly the same",
okay. Me and other people are exactly the same in hat we both want happiness,
okay. This is just beyond us, I mean, it's beyond another normal person, it
doesn't strike you, it doesn't affect you, I didn't see anybody's mouth drop open,
it's beyond us, we're not capable of hearing it. It's stupid to take care of yourself,
because you and other people want to be happy, you are exactly the same, there
is no difference between you and other people, so why are you just taking care
of yourself? It's crazy, I mean, that is supposed to be some kind of profound
thing, I mean, if you were really ready to hear this, you know, you would burst
out crying at this point or something, you know. That's supposed to be some
kind of profound thing. I mean, if you were really ready to hear this you would
burst out crying or something at this point, you know. It's, it's true, everybody
is the same so why are you just taking care of one person? What's the matter
with you? You know, everybody wants to be happy, so why are you just taking
care of one of them? Oh, because I can feel it. Stupid, really stupid, you know,
really bad, evil, bad reasoning, you know, I take care of myself because I am the
only one that feel what I feel when I feel good. You know, it's crazy, you are the
same, everyone's the same, everybody wants to be happy, everybody wants
things. Everybody is looking for something, why are you just taking care of
some of them? You know, it's, it's sick and master Shantideva says, "Just
improper, wrong." Okay, something wrong. something wrong with you, why
are you doing that? You know, everybody wants to be happy so why are you
just taking care of one person? It doesn't make sense, He says, "{mirig}". second
reason and then we're done.         [cut] {dang}, [repeat], {shen}, [repeat], {nika},
[repeat], then you have to jump down here, {dukgnel}, [repeat], {mindupar},
[repeat], {tsunba}, [repeat]. Say it again because it's holy words, okay, I mean
you only get to say this kind of thing, I mean people thing mantras are big deal,
these re holy words, this is a holy mantra. You don't have to do this a hundred
thousand times. I mean, one time saying these words, is the best thing you've
done in a, in a year or something. Say, {dak}, [repeat], {dang}, [repeat], {shen},
[repeat], {nika}, [repeat], {dukgnel}, [repeat], {mindopar}, [repeat], {tsunba}.
{Dak dang shen nika} means, {dak}, means "me", {dang shen} means, "other
people", {nika}, "both of us", {dukngel} means, "pain". {Mindupar} means, "we
don't want it", {er} means, "in that", {er}, okay, in that, {tsunba}, "we are one
hundred percent the same". We are exactly the same. Okay, me and other
people, we are exactly the same in that we don't want any kind of pain. SO why
are you just watching out for one person, you know, why are you only caring
about one persons pain? Why do you restrict your vision to one person? You
know, why? Shantideva, Master Shantideva is very adamant at this point, he's
like, "Is there something wrong with you?" You know, "Are you sick?" You
know, "Are you crazy? You can't see that you and other people are exactly the
same? So why out of all the millions of people in the world you just choose one
and try to keep them out of pain? You know, why is it that you only respond to
one persons pain and not everybody's what's the matter with you? You don't
see that other people have pain? You don't sense that they have pain? You don't
feel some of their pain? And why do you just worry about your pain, you
know, what's wrong with you? You know and he's very adamant about it and
so that's his argument, that's his argument that we should treat, we should treat,
we should be as worried about other peoples pain as we are about our own
because why? To call them other an you is just your decision. It's up to you and
you have the power to decide and if you choose to say, "His pain and my pain
are different." then you'll never be happy. Period. You know and you'll never
be able to make other people happy, which is even worse, okay? I'll repeat that.
As long as you put up with the distinction. As long as you say, "His pain is
different from my pain, I have to take care of my pain, I don't care about what
he wants, as long as you draw that line you can never be happy and worse than
that, you can never help other people to be happy, which is the whole point of
bodhichitta. So that's the argument, we had dome heavy duty argument, heavy
duty things. they are very, very profound. You have to keep reading it and
looking at it. And when you walk out of here tonight, you have to visualize
other people walking around and picture what it would be like if they took car of
your happiness the way that you took care of your own. And then start small
with carrots and potatoes, you know, start small, but start, okay?` If you don't
start, this whole thing is a waste. You must. tonight, look at some other person
and try to imagine, you know, what kind of pain do they have? What kind of
happiness do they want? I'll give it to them, I'll be like the big karmic Santa
Clause of the world, you know, and whatever they want. I'll try to get it for
them, you know, I'll try to get it for them. You know, I'll take care of that, and
that's liberating, you know, if you never do anything else about Buddhism class,
that's the key, you know, that will just make you so happy. Even if you do it a
little bit, it makes you allot happier.     Even if there is no such thing as
enlightenment, even if there is no such thing as future lives, it's all just, eat as
much ice cream now as you can, you know. It's still the best thing to do, it's still
the best thing, to do it. Okay, we had one more question and then we'll stop.
Yeah.

student: [unclear]

{Tsunba} means, exactly the same. Yeah, {tsunba} is not just a word that means,
the same, it means, "exactly the same". Say that again? Identical is pretty good,
but it's too many syllables. You know, same. exactly the same. Okay, that's
more syllables. {laughs]

student: [unclear]

Yeah, yeah, Judy said, "Where do you draw the line about happiness, because it
would make my daughter very happy if I didn't make her do her homework
every night?' And Marvin asked me that again, too, he's probably a deity sitting
there. He said, I have a friend that's into drugs or alcohol or something and, and
it would make them very happy if I gave them lots of money to get more drugs
and alcohol. And as a Buddhist, and your bodhisattva vows say that you are
prohibited from giving someone a gift which would harm them, even if it would
make them happy in the moment, so as a Buddhist, you are prohibited and the
examples in scripture, in are for example; a person comes up to you and says, "I
want to commit suicide, would you get me a gun? You're not allowed to do it.
You know, if someone wants something which would be immoral, you know,
they say, come and have adultery with me or something like that. It would
make them happy, sure, but it would cause them allot of sufferring later. You
have to judge, what would be of ultimate benefit to them. Now, I heard a
person in Dharamsala in nineteen seventy-five say to Geshe Dargye, "Well then I
shouldn't do anything for anybody, because it's all suffering. [laughter] You
know, when I give somebody ice cream, it's just suffering, when I buy a pizza for
my friends at two boots, I like the plain kind, okay? [laughter] You know, it's
just going to cause them suffering, it's the noble truth of sufferring, and I
shouldn't do anything for them." And Geshe Dhargye just laughed, you know,
and he said, "Listen, you're trying to be a bodhisattva, you have to start with
small pleasures that make other people happy and that's fine. It's true that they
are suffering. It's true that a piece of pizza is eventually going to be a suffering,
but if it makes this little sentient being happy for five minutes, to bite into this
two boots pizza, with the mug of root beer, with the boot. Then do it for them,
you owe it to them. Okay, that's I'll never, I'll remember that answer. Okay.
The word person in Tibetan, {kang sak} and the word in Sanskrit, the word
{atman}, they cover all sentient beings, every living creature, like an ant is called
a person in Tibetan, a roach is called a person in Tibetan. Okay, so when I say
person I mean that. the word in Tibetan is the same. Alright, I'll stop there. Try
to do it, okay? Try to do something tonight or tomorrow. Plan and execute a
happiness in someone else's mind, particularly, if it costs you. And then say,
"Why the hell did I do that? That's crazy? I wanted to have that pleasure
tonight." And then say, "Wait, I know why I did it. Because they are me." And
you have to get to that point, if you still think of them as somebody else, you
can't do it, okay. You have to work n the definition of yourself. If you still think
of them as somebody else and that you are doing this for somebody else, it's not
going to work, I tall you, it's not going to work. You must think, I am giving my
fingers some pleasure. I am giving my toes some pleasure, this guy is me, this
guy is part of my body and I'm just taking care of me. Okay, alright. Okay, we'll
stop there. Puntsok la.

prayers: [short mandala]

prayers: [dedication]

[cut]
970814-1
Geshe Michael Roach
Course XI: Guide to the Bodhisattvas Way of Life, Part II