Вступление на срединный путь (текущий курс, Аризона), занятие 79

[Speaker 1]
We're talking about, uh, Arhats as described in the Avatamsa, right? In the two presentations of the Avatamsa. Mmm...

And there was a little bit of a difficult thing that we kind of skipped over. We said we would go back to it. So we're going back to it.

It's kind of a bad place to start if you're Israeli and you're in your first translation class. But, uh, that's the way it goes. Like, Sabra's are very tough.

So... Uh... So, they're saying there's an enemy destroyer, Gachang Bang, who has gotten rid of all their negative thoughts, right?

And they did so by seeing that they're not in control of what's happening. Okay? They say substantial here.

Self-standing and substantial. And then substantial can have about six different means. Chandrakumar Dorje describes them in his comparative schools, Juta.

But, uh, here it means you're not really in control of what's happening to you. The example we gave last week was if you're watching the words come out of your mouth, then you're not really saying them. Uh...

So you're not really in control of what comes out of your mouth. Okay? Uh...

So if you understood that, uh... Is there a place in the Abhidharma where someone can get to Arhat by understanding that they're not in control? Okay?

Can you get to Arhat by understanding that you're not in control? Uh... Then they...

I was present and they were not. So... If you saw that you were in control of yourself, uh...

and only saw that, could that make you an Arhat? Bad answer. Bad answer.

You went like this and you went like that. No, they're bad answers. They're bad answers.

Can you... Can you become an Arhat just by seeing that you're not in control of yourself? Ah...

Okay? He said according to... You know, what school?

Kari? Who's saying Kari? Shinsha.

Shinsha means, uh... What school are we in? You know, what hat are we wearing?

Okay, that has to be the first question. Let's say Abhidharma School. Yes, you could be an Arhat.

So, uh... We're saying you don't necessarily have to be an Arhat. This guy said they don't have to...

They don't necessarily have to be an Arhat. Who would say that? Would Madhyamika and Prasangika say they wouldn't necessarily have to be an Arhat?

Or would they say they couldn't be an Arhat? They couldn't be? Right.

So, Prasangika wouldn't say it's not necessarily the case that they could be. Implying that... there are cases where they could be.

You see? Got it? If I say it's not necessarily the case that they'd be an Arhat, it means...

some of them are an Arhat. So, it can't be who talking? Prasangika.

Because they would say they can't be an Arhat, if that's all they've seen. Got it? Okay?

So, this last section isn't wrong-loop talking. Isn't the ultimate wrong-loop talking. Got it?

Yeah, it might be like... maybe a... a slantantric.

Maybe a slantantric. Who believes in the three tracts. Right?

Something like that. Suppose we agree to be a Brahmin. Now, let's consider the same thing.

It can't be important to describe this message. He is a listener who is still learning to describe this message. Suppose...

now... they claim... Okay.

Got it? That's the center. There's two supposes going on here.

Suppose now they claim... suppose you agree to be a Brahmin. Okay?

That someone could be an enemy destroyer only because he saw that things... that we are in control of ourselves. Suppose you agree to that.

He can't be a... he can't be a Drachomba. He can't be an enemy destroyer.

As described in the Abhidharma. Because he is a listener who is still learning as described in the Abhidharma. True or false?

Is he... is he a listener? Yes.

There's a great teaching that Geshe Thich Nhat Hanh gave one day. Really great teaching. How did he describe a listener?

Did he say it was someone who could hear it but couldn't do it? Yes. He went deeper than that.

He went deeper than that. Now, that's the old... that's the old version.

You know? In the Svatantra there was a listener. What makes you on one of the lower tracks?

What is it? What defines a track in the Svatantra? Yeah.

How well you've seen... Whether you've seen... Which of the three levels of emptiness you've seen?

Okay? Which of the three levels of emptiness you've seen? Have you seen the...

rough lack... Have you seen the subtle lack of self-existence to things? Have you seen the rough lack of self-existence to people?

Have you seen the subtle lack of self-existence to people? And if you've only seen the first two, you're on the lower track. Okay?

It's nothing to do with motivation in that school. And then Geshe Thich Nhat Hanh went off on this thing where the three tracks were all defined only by how well he saw emptiness. Okay?

So, can we call him a listener if he has only seen that you don't control yourself? Yes, he did. That's what would make him a listener.

That's what would put him on a lower track. In that school. In Swatantrika.

Lower middle way school. That's what would put him on that track. That's what would make him just a listener.

Got it? Okay? He understands some level of emptiness we don't understand in higher ones.

Does... Last question. Does Prasangika even accept those three divisions of emptiness?

No. They say that's all false division anyway. Okay?

But that's another story. If this book were being written about the Swatantrikas we'd be complaining about the wrong book here. We'd be criticizing the wrong book here.

Because it's Swatantrika. Okay? You...

From one point of view that's not necessarily the case. Okay, from the point of view of Swatantrika it's not necessarily an R. Okay?

What they're saying is all of this argument is being made by someone who's a lower Madhyamika. And he's making this complicated argument. But his argument doesn't hold either.

He's complaining to the Abhidharma schools really. The Swatantrika is complaining to the Abhidharma schools.

[Speaker 2]
Okay?

[Speaker 1]
That's why you get all these supposed they said. Because here's another one. Okay?

At least some people say so. Okay, that's the Sarnam. That's the Ser at the end of the paragraph.

Is he a... Is someone who has seen that they can't control their mouth. Right?

If someone has seen that emptiness. That kind of emptiness. Selflessness really.

If they've seen that. Are they necessarily... Are they a listener?

Good. This is a great one. Right now you got it.

It's easier. Yeah. Swatantrika.

Yeah, they are a listener. Are they still learning? What did you say?

We don't know. That's good. We don't know.

Have they seen emptiness? They've seen selflessness, let's say. They have seen selflessness directly.

Right? They have seen. But we don't know where they're at yet.

We can say... Can we say that they are necessarily lower track then? Yeah.

Yeah, they... They've only seen that they can't control themselves. Right?

That they're not in control of what's going on with their body and mind. And mouth. Okay?

They've only seen that. Is there any school that would say he's still learning? Necessarily.

[Speaker 2]
Prasangika.

[Speaker 1]
Prasangika. Okay? If you understand those points, you can understand this section.

Okay? Maybe you want to review it yourself. Alright?

This last section. Some people would say so. In Prasangika, he would be a lower track person.

He'd be considered a lower track person. If all he had seen, directly, was that he wasn't in control of himself. Yeah.

Why? What's not... What does it mean to not be learning?

In our heart, at least. You're at least in our heart. Right?

Can you have not seen the highest, the real emptiness at that point? According to who? Yeah.

According to Prasangika, it's not possible, if you reach our heart, that you haven't seen the highest form of emptiness. Period. Right?

So, from a Prasangika point of view, would it be possible to have a person who was lower track, and who was still learning, because all he saw was that he couldn't control his mouth. Yeah. That's the point.

Got it? Okay. That's very deep.

It's very difficult. Okay? Because they're switching speakers.

Two or three schools of speaking. Now we get into something nice and comfortable in Prasangika. Okay?

And you have to chew on the other one. You have to chew on it. You have to have a good background in the Wat to understand that last few pages.

In the Six Flavors of Mahamudra. The Sutra version of Mahamudra. Right?

Then you can really appreciate those last few pages. Because they're switching between different gods, views. Okay?

Alright. Let's read this slowly. One.

Oh, if you're from Tel Aviv or something, just say as much as you can. But say something. Some of the previous letters are silent.

And nobody will notice if you make a mistake. Okay? But make some noise.

All of it. Okay. One, two, three.

[Speaker 2]
De-to-pe-ye-she. Cho-lam-mu-tam. Tam-nam-nam.

De-to-pe-ye-she. De-kyu-min-che.

[Speaker 1]
Du-du-pa-yi-pe. It's not this yet, right? It's just pe.

Even consider those systems.

[Speaker 2]
Which assert that a person can reach liberation.

[Speaker 1]
Consider even, I think. I'm going to change the thing. This is what they taught in Russian class in college.

Split the thing up into more sentences. And it makes it more digestible. As a translator, if a sentence is a whole paragraph long, split it up into smaller sentences.

Okay. Consider the systems which assert that a person can reach liberation. Only by seeing.

By realizing.

[Speaker 2]
By seeking. By without.

[Speaker 1]
So apparently there's... We're positing schools that say you can reach nirvana, right? You can get rid of all your anger forever and your jealousy forever, right?

Just by seeing directly the sixteen aspects of the Four Aryan Truths. And without seeing emptiness there. Okay?

Got it? Can you see the aspects, the sixteen aspects without seeing emptiness there? In this round-loop.

In this presentation. So you can't have a yogic direct perception. Except emptiness.

You can have a yogic direct perception of things other than emptiness. What would be an example? One of the sixteen, right?

No, I mean, one by one. I mean, eventually.

[Speaker 2]
Eventually.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, without seeing emptiness directly. But we just went through that whole thing. We split it into subtle and gross ones, right?

And we were talking about how you could have a direct yogic perception of the sixteen aspects without seeing emptiness directly. And I just went through my pages of that. Didn't we just go through pages of that?

I mean, we did. So some school believed you can see the sixteen aspects maybe in a gross way. Maybe in some, like, intellectual way.

You see? Directly is a little tricky. If it's direct, does it have to be the subtle way?

Huh? So you can't have a direct perception of the gross form of impermanence. I mean, if you can think it, you can have that's a perception of the gross form.

And thinking is direct. Okay. Thinking is direct.

When they say direct, don't limit it to eyes and ears. When you hear your thoughts, that's a wisdom sound. Okay?

All right. Even gay. I think of emptiness as a direct perception of emptiness.

I think of emptiness as a direct perception of emptiness. It's a direct perception of emptiness. Yes.

An international direct perception. Really. Okay.

Even gay. That's true. Even gay accept.

But...

[Speaker 2]
The wisdom which perceives emptiness and the life of a self is the real path of liberation. While the wisdom which perceives the rest of life only acts to... Right there?

Do you like that? The person's mental.

[Speaker 1]
Continue. Say, Yeah, that's how they say it in the monastery. Those are the four aspects of the noble truth of suffering.

Okay. It's changing. Always changing impermanence.

Impermanence. Toma. Emptiness.

Dakme. Lack of a self. Okay?

So, this... Now, Ramluke is saying, look, even those systems which say, you know, you can get liberated by just seeing the sixteen aspects, right? Even they say that what really liberates you is the perception of those two aspects of the truth of suffering.

What two aspects? Guess which ones. These two.

These two. Even those lousy schools who think that you can get to nirvana by seeing the sixteen aspects. Even they say, look, but the main push, the main driver is the perception that things are Toma, Dakme.

Emptiness and have no self. Okay? Even they agree that.

Even these lower schools. Got it? So there's some weird schools, lower schools that say, you don't have to see emptiness directly, you can just see the four aspects.

The sixteen aspects of the four are your truth, right? And then they... But even they have to say, but the real thing that pushes you over the top is the perception of two of the aspects, which is Toma and Dakme.

Well, what are the other aspects? So what do you get out of the other fourteen aspects when you see them? Do those help you?

They just sort of soften your mind up. They just soften your mind up. What we call in Buddhism, Minje.

Say Minje. Which is what? The ripener.

The thing that ripens you. In Tantra, what's Minje? What's the Minje?

What's the Jolje? The path that ripens us and the path that frees us. See, in Tantra, it's a big deal too.

But it's also a big deal in Sutra. In Sutra, Minje is understanding that things are paid, for example. Or that things are changing, for example.

And then Jolje, the thing that gets you free, is to perceive that things are empty, or don't have a self. Got it? So there's a Minje and a Jolje in the Sutra system.

In the open system of Buddhism, there's a mind softener upper, and there's a liberator. There are certain perceptions which soften your mind, and prepare your mind for higher things, and then there are other perceptions that liberate you. What's the softener?

To see the other 14 aspects. What's the liberator? To see these two.

Dombadangme. Okay, got it? The 14 soften your head, two of them get you free.

In Tantra, who's the Minje? Who's the Jolje? Who softens up your mind, and who liberates it?

Kedam and Dzogchen, right? Kedam and Dzogchen. And there's a debate about it.

There's a big debate about it. What prepares you for the path of right way? That's a big debate.

Yeah, nice. Almost. Okay.

Some of them are wrong, okay? You know why I said that? Some of them are wrong.

Some of the Lamrim are wrong. Got it? Some of the Lamrim are wrong.

Not Lamrim, you know, Dzogchen, you've been marked up. If it is Lamrim, it's not necessarily Sutra side of things. Right?

That's all. So you have to be careful when you say that. Got it?

Because some of the Dzogrim will be in the Lamrim. Technically. Like half a line in the Lamja Namsa.

Okay. Okay, let's read this together.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Tel Aviv. Get your hand out. Back.

Back. This is wimpy, okay? These are freshmen.

Back. Like you're going to hit somebody in the head. Come on, just say that one more time.

Shit. Shit. Yes.

You gotta practice. Because... And that's true.

And that's true. Because... What's true?

I scrolled it up. I was mean. I scrolled it up.

Does your attention span... Does your memory, like, go back 45 seconds? What was the...

That is so true. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. That even in the lower schools, that say you get liberated by seeing the 16 aspects, even they say that the big liberator is the two. Seeing the two.

And the other 14 just contribute. Got it? Okay.

Then he has to prove that. What's the two ways of proving something? What's Japa's last name in the temple now?

Munre. Munre. Okay.

His name means scriptural authority or logic. I mean, you can't just say, Hey, Japa's scriptural authority or logic. Are you kidding me?

All right. It's a weird name, right? Who gave him that name?

Probably your relatives. Anyway. All right.

You know, your mom says, Well, what's your name mean? That they gave you the mother's name. Yeah.

Okay. So. He's going to use Lung instead of Rigpa.

Okay. He's going to use Lung instead of Rigpa. He's going to use scriptural authority rather than logic to prove that the lower schools believe that.

Okay. Here it is. And that's true.

Because. What's Nanda? What's Vattika?

Pamanavattika. Say Pamanavattika. Yeah.

Sema Nanda. But everybody just says, their hip, right? So they say, Nanda.

They don't have to say, Sema Nanda. Sema Nanda ki tenju, sixu chepa. They don't have to say that.

They just say, Nanda. You know. Because that's the Vattika.

Okay. Because the commentary. I usually add the rest just for a rest of this.

So. That's supposed to prove that's stable. What school is Namdao?

Soutrantika. Say swatantrika. One more time.

Swatantrika. Soutrantika.

[Speaker 2]
Alright?

[Speaker 1]
That's hard. Say swatantrika. Soutrantika.

Swatantrika is the lower half of the fourth school. Soutrantika is the second school. The Sutras.

Because they believe in Sutra. Which when you verbiate, when you strengthen the Sanskrit, becomes Soutra. Soutrantika.

Soutrantika. Okay, got it? And then swatantrika.

Alright. So second school, he's giving us an example of what? One of those schools that believes that thing about the 14 and the 2.

And they even mention all the rest. Meaning what? The other 14.

Got it? Okay. Seeing the other 14.

Directly. I guess. I don't know.

This is a really important section. And I don't want you to get lost in it just because it's so complicated. The question being, does it help to see that you're not in control?

It softens your mind. Right? It doesn't get you to Nirvana.

It cannot get you to Nirvana. By itself. Okay?

But it does soften your mind. Okay, that's all. That's going to be the theme now.

Alright? Let's consider this. I'm just using this as an, what do you call it?

A device. I'm using this let's consider as a device to split the sentence. So consider doing that.

[Speaker 2]
Let's consider a state of wisdom where you perceive the emptiness where a fact that I perceive is empty of existing substantial in a substantial and substantial way without perceiving.

[Speaker 1]
Got it? Did they? Go ahead.

Oh, you're right. You're right. Okay.

Now, is there such a thing? Can you perceive that you are not in control of your mouth without perceiving the emptiness of you? Can you perceive that you are empty of controlling yourself without perceiving that you are empty?

It's getting quiet now. You have to say yes. You're right.

Stick with it. Stick with it in the background even if they smash you later. It's okay.

Just half the time you can get away with just looking like you believe what you have. You're just like, everybody knows that. And then they get afraid and then they don't attack you.

Okay. So anyway. Yeah.

You can see that you are empty of any controlling of yourself without perceiving that you are empty because they don't mean the same thing. Got it? Okay.

So let's consider that state of mind, that wisdom. The guy saw that he wasn't in control of his mind and body. Are you in control of your mind and body?

You know. Can you keep your temper when you want to? You know.

Does the yoga make you look like you wanted to always? You know. Are you in control of these things?

You know. You do all this yoga and still you look like... You know.

Because it doesn't matter. It's not the yoga that's doing it. Right?

Okay. And then somebody else does like half an hour yoga every day and they look great. You know.

So anyway. You're not in control of these things in that way. Or are you in control of these things?

Yeah. If you're kind to other people, if you help the sick, then you can do a half hour yoga or not doing a yoga at all. And you'll look great.

You'll look like, you know, David White or something. You know. Okay.

If you see that you're not... I just gave you a proof why you're not in control of your body. I gave you the what example?

The Yoga Asana example. And it's true. It's true.

Right? You know that. If you see that you don't control the look of your body.

Right? If you see that, then can you eliminate the idea in your mind that you do control your body? Yeah.

Because they're Munga. Say Munga. Munga.

[Speaker 2]
Munga.

[Speaker 1]
I call it... There ain't enough room in this town for both of us. You know.

I call it that. There ain't enough... It's John Wayne and...

Who's that guy? Cary Grant, was it? He played...

Gary Cooper. Who played the modest straight shooting sheriff who got shot and then still killed the bad guy. Right?

Okay. So, he's like, there ain't enough room in this town for both of us. You know.

So, you have to think of those two states of mind. The state of mind that believes that yoga by itself will help you. And the state of mind that realizes that without helping sick people or old people or poor people, you can do yoga all day and nothing will happen to your body.

Can those two ideas stay in one parallel at the same time? No, they can't. They can't.

I mean, one will push the other out. You see what I mean? One will push the other out of your head.

You can't maintain both ideas in their fullest form in the same moment. That's because they go like this. They don't go boom, boom.

They go whoosh, whoosh. They go like this. Sorry.

Here's the good idea and here's the bad idea. The bad idea is over here and the good idea is over here. Watch.

So, the bad idea is getting smaller as the good idea gets bigger. And at some point it's 50-50, right? I'll do it.

I'll try to do it again. It's got to record everything. Halfway.

Right? Okay? The bad idea shuts out.

The good idea takes over. But there's a time when they're both in the mind, kind of. That's a big debate in itself.

Okay. Let's read it first. One, two, three.

One, two, three. What's that first chapter of Yoga Sutra? Anandasmita.

What's the rest? Vidharka, Vidharka, Anandasmita. Is that it?

Anandasmita. Yeah. But it's those four, right?

Vidharka, Vidharka, Anandasmita. So, Chiropa. Chiropa.

Chiro means outside. And Chiropa is the opposite of Ananda. What's Ananda?

It's the Buddhist word, it's a Tibetan word for a Buddhist. An insider. An inside person.

And Chiropa means an outsider. You know, whether it sounds politically correct or not, that's what they say. That's how they say it.

Chiropa, tumultu gyurpe, tumultu gyurpe means like tumultu ngamjang, like the path that's held in common. Right? Shared.

There's a path which is shared by the Chiropas and who? The Anandas. Yeah.

There's a certain idea about a spiritual method which is held in common by Hindu schools and Buddhist schools. What is it? Shiraki nambachengi nyongju.

Say, Shirak. Shiraki. Ki.

Nambachen. Nambachen. Ki.

Ki. Nyongju. Nyongju.

Shi means, Shiwa means, Sukshma means, Shimmo means, yeah, you can say, you should say subtle here. Shirak. Okay?

It means peaceful. Literally it means peaceful. Rak means gross or obvious.

Shiraki nambachengi nyongju. Samapati or meditation. It means a special kind of meditation.

And we talked about it before. You know? We...

Speaking of refreshments, are you ready? Let's do that.

[Speaker 2]
Okay?

[Speaker 1]
We talked about it before. We were in three-year retreat, right? And before three-year retreat, we used to sit in a time cafe and translate Tsongkhapa's Zogrim text that you're going to get now.

So that's when we were getting it ready, 1998. Ten years ago. And we were having six or eight lattes.

Coffee lattes. And we were buzzing. And we'd sit there like...

And then we went into retreat and we started to use black tea. Black tea with milk and honey. No, salt.

But then honey after that. Lots of honey. Like a cup of honey in every thermos bottle.

And then after that we went to green tea. And then after that we went to decaf tea. And then after that we went to Moroccan whiskey.

Which is mint tea. Dada? Dada?

In Hebrew. Nana. Sorry.

Yeah, in Israel they're called Nana. In Morocco they're called Moroccan whiskey. But anyway.

Then we went to that. And then we were like, stop the milk. Start using almond milk.

And so you're getting finer and finer. Right? Finer and finer.

And your mind is getting finer and finer. Right? Like you used to blow up when you were angry and then you just sat there and stared at the person.

And then after that you can control your face but your mind is still burning. And these are all shiraki number two. Okay?

The anger isn't gone. The anger isn't gone. It's just manifesting in more and more subtle ways.

Like, we have more desire now for almond milk than we ever had for milk. You know? Right?

Like we go to Morocco. They say, would you like to come to Morocco? We say, we don't say, you know, anything.

We just say, do you have almond milk? Like that. So, shiraki number ten means states of meditation where your mind gets more and more subtle.

Okay? So, if you go from level one, Anand, in the Hindu system, to Asmita, in the Hindu system, like, you might give up a desire for food. Like, you might not want food so much anymore.

You're going from really desire around level of mind to a form around level of mind. Okay? And then you go finer and finer.

Can that remove your mental afflictions? Can that... Thank you.

Thank you.

[Speaker 2]
No, it just makes it more subtle.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. I think both answers are correct. It makes you more subtle.

Yeah? And for a time you can remove. On your cushion.

Yeah, while you're on your cushion, you're not going to get manifest forms of anger. Exactly. Okay?

But then you get... Then you stand up. No, then you stand up and you go outside and someone calls you an idiot and you...

and you blow up. You know? Right?

I think even more you blow up because your mind is on fire. And then you get more angry than you were before. So here we...

This is a discussion about that phenomenon. The spiritual mistake of thinking that if you're getting more and more subtle in your mind, you're doing anything about your negative emotions. Okay?

Alright? And that's a big deal. Right?

That's a bodhisattva vow, right? What is that? Don't be attached to unpleasant feeling of meditation.

Okay? Don't think that because you feel you kind of flying sensation that your anger is gone. You just haven't met the object that could trigger it because you got your eyes closed.

Okay? Alright? No, it's a big danger.

And people get very disappointed. They practice breathing meditation for ten years and they... It doesn't really remove their anger.

And then they... You gotta... You have to know that.

So is breathing practice useless? No, it's a Minje. Which is what?

It's a mind softener. It's a great practice. I do it all the time.

After 30 years of meditation, 35 years. I'm still doing breath meditation because it's a good Minje. But it doesn't...

Itself... By itself doesn't remove your mental afflictions. Okay?

So... Hmm... And that's true.

What's true? Oh, the person who sees they can't control themselves can remove in their mind the idea that they... can't control themselves.

For what? For as long as that stays in their mind, they can keep the other thought out. Right?

Got it? Just nod over your cookie.

[Speaker 2]
Okay. Hmm... Just what?

[Speaker 1]
Hang on one sec. Who was that? One sec.

Okay. Now I got to remember the last three words.

[Speaker 2]
Okay. So... Can't they control themselves if they're kind to others?

[Speaker 1]
That is control. Yeah. So if someone said to you, you can't control yourself.

You can't control what you say. You can say, I can't control. Then they say, can you control me in this present moment?

No. Because your karma takes time to write it. You...

You speak kindly now and you'll speak kindly later. Can you control yourself to the extent of speaking kindly now so you can speak kindly later? That's the question.

That's the turtle in the ocean question. Ha!

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Unfortunately, I'm there now. I'm there now. I'm wallowing in that right now.

Okay. Yeah, okay. It's good to know.

It's like turtle... They do that in San Pancho. They're like releasing more turtles.

Okay. Turtle preservation. All right.

Why do they call it a balanced state of meditation? Nyom juk, samat pati. Huh?

Yeah, balance between ching-wang and karma. Balance between starting to fall asleep and thinking about lunch. Okay.

Otherwise called dullness and agitation. Okay. But when they say balance, they're implying you're there.

When they call it samapati, they're implying you are balanced. You're halfway between, you're staying between. You're doing good.

You're doing good. Okay? If you meditate well, and your mind gets quieter and quieter, can you overcome attachment or desire to, say, sense something?

Yes. Yeah, you do. You do.

Like, you're less likely to want a sweet. Because that's a desire realm thing. So it can remove from manifest forms.

That's a mayinga. What's a mayinga? Mayinga means to say something that implies something else.

What's the classic mayinga in scripture? That really fat monk doesn't eat during the day. Okay?

Heijin gyakpa. Say, Heijin gyakpa. Nimogala.

Kalamase. Okay? That really fat monk doesn't eat during the day.

Okay? So what's it mean when you say manifest forms of desire? It doesn't eliminate subtle forms.

It doesn't eliminate the tendency. It eliminates the manifestation. But it doesn't eliminate the tendency.

Sitting in meditation all day in your three-year retreat, getting the mind quieter and quieter, and only doing that, may mean that you don't feel angry during the day. But then when you come out of retreat, the first time you meet some very irritating person, you'll blow up. Because you didn't deal with the subtle forms of the anger.

Okay? With the source of the anger. Okay?

Okay, nothing wrong. So there's all these levels of the desire realm, the form realm, and the formless realm, right? Seventeen levels or something.

Okay? There's all these levels. The highest one is called Chiang Me.

Say, Chiang Me. Sorry, that's not true. I gotta change this.

No, that's okay. Chiang Me is the next highest level of all the realms. Okay?

In the formless realm, it's called Chiang Me. What's Chiang Me mean? What's it mean?

Nothing at all. It's called nothing at all. Okay?

In meditation, what does it refer to? In the practice of meditation, there's a bad view called Chiang Me. What's that?

That you should try to empty your mind of everything. Like a blue sky. I've been waiting for that one.

So that's the Chiang Me meditation. Totally worthless. I love it.

I didn't say that. I can show you. But anyway.

You want Lu or you want Rinpoche? Anyway, Chiang Me. But in the study of the levels of existence, in the study of the levels in which you can be born into, what does Chiang Me mean?

It's a very, very subtle form of existence. Almost nothing. Like in the formless realm.

You meditated so well in this lifetime during the desire realm existence that you were born without a body. You didn't need to even have a body. You are being a mental, a mental substance and nothing else.

It's you in the formless realm. Okay? You can only get there if your mind goes extremely subtle in not being attached to food, sex, fame, clothes, you know, like that.

You can only get there if your mind is totally free of all those things. Totally free of almost thinking. Almost like a heroine type of level.

Your mind doesn't even want to think. That's called Chiang Me. Then the level above that is called Si Tse.

Say Si Tse. Si Tse means the peak of existence. The peak of samsara existence.

The highest level you can go and still be suffering. Now the nature... What makes those levels those levels?

Why do those levels exist?

[Speaker 2]
What defines them?

[Speaker 1]
What defines the difference between the desire realm and the form realm? No, it's the point at which you no longer have a craving for food and sex. Okay?

When you really overcome the human condition in this realm, and we are in the desire realm. Everybody here has it. You have a basic...

What do they call it? Hardwired? Hardwired is a fancy word.

Visceral attachment to food and sex. You do. Okay?

And... But when you get over that, through a practice of deep meditation, you get to a point where you're not interested in sex anymore and you're not interested in food anymore. When you reach that point, your mind has gone into the form realm.

And by the way, you can only see emptiness at that point, directly. You have to be able to get to that to see emptiness directly. Your body is still in the desire realm, but your mind is in the saṃdhāntaṃ bhūnyato mito me.

The first level of the form realm. What defines you as having gotten there? Does your mind disappear?

Does your body start to fly? You have no more manifest desire for food and sex. Completely beyond it.

You know, someone could wave a hot McDonald's french fries in front of you and you wouldn't even notice, you know, like that. Okay? You're just beyond.

So in this system of enlightenment, which is not useful, okay, because it don't work, you just keep dropping more and more gross things, okay? Like you drop lattes, and then you drop black tea, and then you drop decaf, and then you drop Moroccan whiskey, and then you drop, you know, unfiltered water, and then you drop Perrier, and then you, you see like that, you're getting, but you have to be a Perrier to drop unfiltered water. You see?

You have to be a Perrier to drop unfiltered water in this system. You have to go up to the next step of the ladder to cut the lower realms off. You have to step up one realm to be willing to cut the lower realms.

You have to be in the form realm to let go of the desire realm. You see? Got it?

So how do you get rid of the highest one? What's about the top realm of the ladder? Sitze.

Yeah, in this, you see, using this method, you can't. You will always be stuck in some side. You can't.

That's why he stopped at Chiang Mai. That's why he said, you can only get as far as giving up Chiang Mai, the next to the last level, because you got to be at the last level to give up the next to the last level. But how are you going to get out of the last level?

You know, what's beyond Perrier? You know, like that, okay? Got it?

Okay. So yeah, it's true, you can, up to the certain level, you can just get finer and finer, and you can drop your old attachments. Right?

But then you get stuck at the top. This is a really, really important section for everybody. Because what he's doing, and he's going to go later into Master Shantideva, he's giving two classical proofs for why you have to see emptiness to get rid of your anger forever, and your jealousy forever.

What he's doing, this whole section, he is struggling to prove to you that you have to see emptiness directly if you don't want to suffer. If you're tired of being jealous or angry or that, you must see emptiness directly. He's trying to prove that.

This whole, like, last two years, he's going to prove it from Master Buddha, Chandrakirti, and then he's going to move on to Master Shantideva. He's giving it from two great Masters. We're in the middle of Chandrakirti, okay?

For the last couple of years. And by the way, we're about to hear Master Shantideva, okay? His proof for what?

If you really want to get rid of your negativities, you concentrate on emptiness, work on emptiness, okay? All right, here we go. Don't just go and meditate and try to get your breath finer and finer and finer and finer, because it'll break down, okay?

So is getting your breath finer and finer and finer useless? No, it's a mind softener. You have to start there.

It's a holy practice. It's a high practice. Most people never get beyond it.

Most people who meditate cannot do breath meditation at all. Okay? All right.

The very yesterday. Wow, okay.

[Speaker 2]
That kind of wisdom does have emotions, negative emotions, which are deeper. Okay.

[Speaker 1]
How many people are in Sampaja region? We have 15 more minutes, by the way. Okay.

A few are in Sampaja, right? Ah, how many root mental afflictions are there? Excuse me?

I used to have these people at work who just were new immigrants, and when they wanted to say excuse me, they would say, accuse me?

[Speaker 2]
No, it's okay.

[Speaker 1]
But they learned my language. I never learned their language, which was Chinese. But anyway.

Sorry, how many? Five. Wow, let's do that again.

How many root mental afflictions are there? I told you they never read their e-mail. I told you that.

It's worthless. Someday we should just put something out in the newspaper, in the media, and simply remove it.

[Speaker 2]
How many?

[Speaker 1]
Six. Sanyin duk, say Sanyin duk. Nyenyen nishin.

Twenty secondary, six primary, right? Six primary. So, Sanyin duk, Sanyin duk, nyenyen nishin, yöey.

So there are six primary mental afflictions and twenty secondary mental afflictions, right? Sanyin duk, nyenyen nishin, yöey. Good, good, good.

So, Sanyin duk, duk yinpa ta. So the six primary mental afflictions are six. Right?

So the six primary mental afflictions aren't the five good points and the five non-good points. They are. So two, you know?

So six and ten are the same thing. No, okay, all right, got it. But we went through this in Sankhāntara.

We went through all the primary mental afflictions. We went through the first five. And then when we got to the sixth, we said, look, there's five forms of the sixth.

So really you could say all mental afflictions can be divided. If you got rid of your mental afflictions which were viewpoints, and you got rid of your mental afflictions which were not viewpoints in that sense, what would happen? You wouldn't have any mental afflictions, at least primary ones.

Okay, got it? So sometimes when they want to say all the mental afflictions, they say, all the negative emotions which are viewpoints and those which are not viewpoints. That's just a technical word in Buddhism to say, what?

All the mental afflictions. Okay? So this is cool.

He's saying, if you could see that your body is not under your control, you would cut not only the manifest form of that idea, right? But you would cut the thousand weeds that grow from that idea. Got it?

Like, Rinpoche used to say, go out and pick the dandelions out of the lawn. You know? Like, you think your work is boring or stupid.

Rinpoche would say, go out and pull all the dandelions out of the lawn. He didn't want to use, what do you call it? Dandelion killer?

Camouflage? He'd say, he used disciples' fingers. You know?

Twenty disciples crawling across the lawn picking out dandelions. And then two weeks later, what? Twice as many.

Why? Because you broke the root off. You broke the top off the root, right?

And then it splits. It doubles. It's like a hydra?

What do you call it? Medusa? It splits and it grows more.

You know? It's like pruning an olive tree. You get more.

So, mental afflictions are like that. If you don't deal with the base ignorance, then you'll just have more mental afflictions, right? So, what's he saying here?

If you get it that you're not in control, right? If you get it, then you cut off all the anger, all the jealousy, all the desire, all the competitiveness, you know? All the mental afflictions that spurt out of that one root.

Got it? Where's the word spurt out of that one root? Thangma.

Right here, thangma. Got it? He also added something down here.

He said, directly inspired. That's probably important, you know? In a debate, you gotta listen for that.

He said, directly. Well, what did he say directly for? What's he trying to get out of?

Okay, let's go one more paragraph. One more sentence. We got eight minutes.

Oh, I made a mistake. Small mistake. Check this out.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, I'm sorry.

[Speaker 1]
That kind of does happen. I'm sorry, I made a mistake. Yeah, no, I didn't make a mistake.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, but it doesn't eliminate the negative emotions, which are viewpoints, and those which are not deeply inspiring, are holding everything.

[Speaker 1]
Hang in there, B.I. We're getting there. What's the point? What's he trying to say?

If you can see that you're not in control of yourself, then you can eliminate, at least manifest the form, of the idea that you are in control of yourself, and all the other nasty weeds that sprout out of that. Anger, desire, jealousy, etc. Okay?

Got it? But that realization that you're not in control of yourself is not gonna be good enough to get rid of all the mental afflictions that are going from a different nasty root, which is thinking that things are coming from themselves. Got it?

Got it? So, can a lower understanding of emptiness help you get rid of mental afflictions? And you should say, resik, say resik, which means what?

For a while. For a while. Okay?

And specifically, it can help you get rid of the mental afflictions that are related to thinking that you are in control of yourself. Okay? But not the other mental afflictions that are based in a different wrong idea.

Got it? So, you get to Mahamudra number one. Right?

You see that you're not in control of yourself. Or number two, is it? You see that you're not in control of yourself.

Okay? That can help you eliminate the idea that you are in control of yourself, and all the wrong ideas that are sprouted from that. And there's lots.

There's lots of them. Getting frustrated in yoga after you've done hours or months and months of regular daily practice, and you still don't have a six-pack. Okay?

Right? That mental affliction, worrying that you don't have that six-pack, can be eliminated by understanding that you are not in control of yourself. But you'll still have other mental afflictions that are based in a different wrong idea.

Which is what? That the six-pack came from its own side. Or that the six-pack exists from its own side.

Okay? Which is just a fancy way of saying that you don't have to take care of others to get your six-pack. Got it?

Dependent Origination. That's Dependent Origination. You never saw it in the text.

It's just an oversight. It was probably carved and lost. That to get your six-pack, you have to serve others.

Right? Really. Okay?

That's Dependent Origination. What's the emptiness? What's the flip side of that?

Yeah. There ain't no six-pack that comes any other way. Got it?

That's the emptiness of six-packs. And that's the Dependent Origination of six-packs. Now, I saw a photo of George Clooney in Vallarta.

And he was in Vallarta. And they said he's doing yoga. He's got his six-pack, you know.

I'm like, he must really be taking care of people. Okay. Alright.

We'll do this and then we'll stop. We have three more minutes. One, two, three.

TE DEN ZIN TANG ZIN TANG MU SUNG YANG WEI LAM MA YIN PEI And that's true. Because that is Lama Thab.

[Speaker 2]
Which is the direct contradiction to the way it's in line.

[Speaker 1]
LAM, say LAM. LAM MUN TOG MUN TOG DEN ZIN DEN ZIN LAM LAM MUN TOG MUN TOG DEN ZIN DEN ZIN What does that mean? Yeah.

The word PAH. PAH. Lama Thab's name is PAH.

And the word realization in Buddhism are DEN ZIN Same thing, synonyms. Okay. Path of Buddhism is not in Prajnaparamita.

It's not a physical road. And it's not a series of steps either. It's an idea.

Okay. Are you on the path means what? Did you get that idea?

Okay. What idea? That things don't exist in a real way.

Does the apple juice exist?

[Speaker 2]
Yes.

[Speaker 1]
Does it exist in a real way? No. Is it not real?

Yes. If I drink it, is my thirst not quenched? Yes.

Generally. Yeah, generally, yeah, it is. So it's real.

I mean, one of the tests of reality is that it functions to do something. So it's real. Huh?

Yeah, nice. Not the way you think it's working. Not the way you think it's working.

The apple juice didn't quench my thirst. The apple juice doesn't have the power to quench my thirst. I have a friend, Bob Chilton.

You give him kiwi juice, what happens? His throat swells up like this. And he almost died.

We gave him a little bit of kiwi juice by accident once. And he has an extreme allergy to it. And his throat swelled up like this and he almost died.

So, did the kiwi juice have the innate ability to quench your thirst? You say no, you know, okay? So, water doesn't quench thirst.

Liquids don't quench your thirst, right? Not really. Yeah, not really.

Okay, got it? Okay. If you realize that whether you're thirsty or not is not under your control, right?

Might you still think that water quenched your thirst? Therein lies the problem, okay? The first is a lower worldview.

The second is a higher worldview. They're both good worldviews. I'll say it again.

It's one thing to understand that water doesn't quench your thirst by itself. There's nothing in the water which quenches thirst. It has to be loaded with good karma.

That's highest worldview, right? It's another idea that you don't control your thirst. You can't control your level of thirst.

That's a lower worldview. But we can obviously say one. That one is going to ripen your mind from the other.

Okay? One is going to set you up for the other. Got it?

Last thing. Is the first worldview in direct contradiction? How do I say?

If I understand that thirst is not under my control, right? Can we say that that state of mind... What do you call it?

Obvious? Doesn't allow the existence of the idea that water is real. What?

Thinking that water is real is an idea. And we have it in our mind, right? If we suddenly understand that thirst...

We can't control our level of thirst. Will that push the other worldview out? Will that push the wrong view out of our heads?

Not necessarily or not. Right? Okay?

They are not in direct contradiction. Okay? They are not.

That's what it means to be in direct contradiction. Got it? How do you say it in John Wayne terms?

We have a great room in this mind for both of us. Got it? Okay, when he says indirect contradiction, that's what he means.

Okay? I'll say it one more time. Just because everyone is almost falling asleep.

Me too. Let me see if I can get this straight. I'm holding that the apple juice is real.

Right? If I suddenly realize that I can't control my thirst, will that be strong enough to push the thought out of my mind that it's real? And then you'll still have mental afflictions.

And you'll still be unhappy. And you'll still screw up. And your world will still be messy.

Got it? Okay. It's beautiful.

Beautiful. You'll never see this stuff anywhere else. I mean, this is really beautiful.

This is the proof that you have to see emptiness to be happy. You know. This whole year is gonna be the proof that you have to see emptiness to be happy.

To really be happy. Forever. Got it?

Okay. Alright.