Нагарджуна, курс 6 — Заключительные главы (2024, Аризона), занятие 3

[Speaker 1]
I guess we're on, let me see here, yeah, Arya Nagarjuna Class 3. You're going to show me IDIM 6.17, which is a crying baby. Looks like Stanley when he wakes up.

All right. Okay, we're in Chapter 25. We have three chapters now to go, 25, 26, 27.

We have to finish them this week. Hopefully Grandpa cannot talk too much and finish the class. We finished the investigation of the Four Higher Truths and now we're going to start the investigation of nirvana.

That's Chapter 25. It's the investigation of nirvana. All right, let's go to this first image.

The other guy starts with his same old, same old. In English it's called same old, same old. I'll tell you the Sanskrit for fun.

YAD DE GZHON YAMS YID DANG SAR BA'AM UDA YOG NA STIG NA RGYAS PA DRA GANG LA NIR RO DANG PA'I KAS YOD NIR DBANG RNAMS SHES TE If everything's empty and nothing can start and nothing can stop, then how can you reach nirvana? He's got the same old complaint. If everything's empty, I don't see how there can be a nirvana.

I don't, and specifically, I don't see how you can stop human suffering or sentient suffering. I don't see how you can stop it. If everything's empty, if nothing starts and nothing stops, I don't see how you could reach nirvana.

He uses two verbs in his complaint. He says, in Tibetan, it's BONG and GAG. BONG means give up something and GAG means shut the tap, shut the flow.

Give up and shut the flow. We have a nice commentary from Choney Lama. So I'm following Choney Lama Drakpa Shetav's commentary, which is great.

And I got the good carving of it two days ago. I've been working on it for seven years. And that's kind of frustrating because I have to redo the whole thing.

We put together, Choney Lama's works were destroyed during the Cultural Revolution. We started putting them back together and we actually sent someone on a bus to Choney Lama. It's pretty cool.

He finished. His name is Jason Dunbar. He's the early ALL guy.

He did a great job. He went there at the cost of many diarrhea sessions. He got a copy of all the books, but it was a terrible, terrible copy.

One copy came from another city. Anyway, we found... I was using a bad copy up to now, but we just found a good one.

So I have to start the whole thing over. Anyway, he says BONG, or to give up something means your nyomongs, negative emotions. And I'm not going to go too much detail into it, but he says nyomongpa.

So there's a difference between klesha, which means negative emotion, or kleshik stuff. This computer is kleshik stuff. It's part of samsara, but it's not a negative emotion unless I'm late for class.

Anyway, he says give up, basically negativity, mental negativity. And gok is interesting because classically, when you say gokpa or gok, it means stopping. And then they always say nyer leng gi pungpo, the five parts to you that you took on, the five parts to you that you took on when you were born.

So when you were born, you went to the store and you said, oh, this mind looks pretty good and this body is okay. And you made choices and you took on five pieces. So in nirvana, it's kind of defined as stopping the five parts to you that you took on, which is your body, your feelings, your capacity to discriminate between things, all your other mental functions and certain little things about you, and then your main consciousness, your main mind.

In English, you can say body and mind. The body and mind that you, mind-body complex that you took on when you were born. So that's stopped in nirvana.

And I'll give you a clue. I'll give you a clue. We don't say nirvana is stopping the five parts of you.

We do say nirvana is stopping the five parts of you that you took on. What's the difference? You could have parts of you that you didn't take on.

In other words, the taking on is the bad part. Being forced into a body which will die is bad. Having a body which doesn't die is fine.

Got it? You can have the five parts to a person, but you shouldn't have the five parts to a person that you took at birth, when you took birth. You made a mistake at birth, actually.

You were forced to. It's not your fault. It is your fault.

Anyway, you took a certain body on and it's a nirlanggi phubpo. It's a taken on body and it will die. It has to die.

It has to get old. It has to die. So, he says nirvana really has two parts and Nagarjuna says nirvana has two parts.

One is get rid of your negativities and everything involved with them. And then secondly, get rid of the five parts to you which you took on, nirlang. That's crucial.

In this discussion of nirvana, that's crucial. We're not... Well, we got to talk about it.

Next picture, Francisco. Yeah, this one the AI did not too bad. By the way, Tim, my AI...

He's not Tim. My AI has an option on it. You can make a new picture with the AI or you can say, show me all the pictures that anyone ever made about this topic since AI started.

When you make an AI picture on almost AI platforms, you give up the copyright to it when you make it which means they can sell it to everybody. So you spend a half hour struggling to get the AI to do what you want and then they sell your picture to everybody. But you have to know how to reach that part of the AI function.

So anyway, someone else did the work on this one. I thank you very much. They always keep the title and it's in Russian or German or Spanish or Chinese and it's cool.

I forget which one, this one. Anyway, somebody else made this, but it fits. I want to ask you guys today, where are we going in the flow of the last three chapters?

We're sitting here together. You can say last four chapters. We're sitting here together.

We're stuck here for a week, hopefully, unless you break your arm and go to the hospital. But so we got four chapters that we're going to be working on. Is there a flow between the four chapters?

And I'll tell you the four chapters again. 24 was an investigation of the four trees. 25, which is what we're doing this morning, is an investigation of nirvana.

26 is an investigation of the 12 links of the Wheel of Life. And 27 is an investigation of how you look at things. Viewpoint, how do you look at things?

Maybe think about it. Maybe think about it until the next class. And then think about it during your...

Let's think about it. When's my next class, Tim? Oh, 10.

No, I mean, Friday or something? Saturday. That's too long.

You'll forget about it. How about in the next class you tell me the flow? Well, how do you see the flow?

I'll tell you the four things in the flow again. What's the first one? Four trees.

Second one's nirvana. Third one's the 12 links. And then it's how do you view the world?

And then we're done with the most famous book in Buddhism. That is the most famous book in Buddhism, I would say, except for the sutras. There must be a reason why he went through that flow.

There must be a reason. There must be some deeper reason. Maybe someone can think about it before the next class.

Next, we're going to discuss nirvana. Arya Nagarjuna starts to discuss nirvana. And don't forget that Arya Nagarjuna is at the very beginning of everything.

After the Buddha, all you have is some Abhidharma stuff going on for 700 years. And then you have Nagarjuna. Then you have Arya Nagarjuna.

He is before the two brothers. He's before Vasubandhu and the Sangha. He's before all of the logic schools.

He's before everybody else. He's the grandpapa. He's the mafia don.

When he goes through a topic, it's very interesting because you're getting a Buddhist genius discussing Lord Buddha without any help. He's doing it on his own. He's the first Mahayana teacher.

He's the first Bodhisattva teacher in history after Lord Buddha. So his opinion about nirvana is interesting. And it's kind of nice to see him, for me personally, it's nice to meet someone who didn't know the lineage.

He started the lineage. So what was his thoughts? He was fresh off of Buddha.

You see what I mean? And he didn't have 2,000 years of commentaries. By the way, in some religions, I would say the longer it goes on, the more confused it gets.

And there's weird ideas come in and weird schools and problems and things like that. In Buddhism, the opposite happens. The more centuries that went on, the greater the commentaries and the more clear it became.

Buddha spoke in riddles. And by the time you get to Tsongkhapa, they have made it beautifully clear, exquisitely clear. In this lineage, as time goes on, things get more amazing.

It's cool. It's a cool lineage. Okay, so anyway, here's...

I call this picture, I gave it a name, Here Today, Gone Tomorrow. This is an American Indian. Here Today, Gone Tomorrow.

Oh, like, I don't know. You meet a cute boy in high school and you're like... And then he's gone.

Like that. Life tends to be a long series of here today, gone tomorrow. The way that the early Buddhists, like Abhidharma people, before Vasubandhu, Vasubandhu was at the end of Abhidharma.

He wrote the summary of what the school thought after it died, or as it was dying. He wrote the great Abhidharma Kosha. What did they think before that?

What did they think about nirvana before that? It was kind of, we call... Well, they thought your body and your mind blinked out, just disappeared.

They thought nirvana was... And by the way, my brother committed suicide when he was 20. He just decided it was better.

He was comfortable. He had everything. But he just decided he didn't want to exist anymore.

So there is this idea in the lowest schools of Buddhism that nirvana means you blink out. You kill your body, you kill your mind, and then it's all over and that's some kind of happiness. The trick is, the problem is what?

There's no one to experience that. Somehow they didn't think of that. I want to be happy.

Okay, I'm going to kill myself. Then you kill yourself. Who's happy?

That's the Nagarjuna's complaint. He's like, is that nirvana? Is it nirvana just to blink out?

Then who achieves that? Who reaches that? Who's around to reach it?

And it doesn't matter at that point. You can't call it happiness, I think. Why?

There's no one to feel happy. You're dead. You're gone.

Your body's dead. Your mind is gone. But these lower schools misunderstood the idea of nirvana.

What's nirvana mean literally? Nir means out. Van means blow.

The word fan comes from van. The word like a fan in a hot room comes from van. Nir means out.

It became nil. It became negative. It means to blow out.

They heard the word nirvana and they said, oh yeah, I'll blow out my body and I'll blow out my mind. Then I'll be happy. I think there was a band in America called Nirvana.

The head of the band killed himself. Everybody thought nirvana must be like that. It must be how you just kind of disappear.

That's an old idea of nirvana. Then that developed later into another idea of nirvana. We call sak che and sak me.

Sak che and sak me. The early, early Buddhists who misunderstood Lord Buddha, they said you reach a point where you're ready to go to nirvana, but you still have your old body and mind. You just live in it until you die.

Then you reach real nirvana. There's like a temporary nirvana. At some point in your ACI studies, you reach perfection, personal perfection, but you're not dead yet.

You're still dragging around the body that you took on at birth. They don't say you should commit suicide. They say you should just wait until the old body wears out.

Then you'll go to nirvana with no remainder, with nothing left over. You can think of it. Try to think of it.

Nagarjuna is addressing this idea. Nagarjuna, historically, he's in a time when everybody around him believed that. They said nirvana has two stages.

Why? First, you study, study, study, meditate, meditate, meditate, and then you stop all your negativities. But you're still in your original body, which was created by bad karma.

You're still in your original mind, which was created by bad karma, and you took it on at birth. Then if you can stop doing bad things, then that old body will slowly wear out, and then you go into some kind of blink out. Then you blink out.

They say there's a period inside the old body and mind while it's purifying, and then it blinks out. Then that's death. You die, and everything is smooth.

It's not like you shoot yourself or something. It's not like you kill yourself. You stop making bad karma.

Your old body and mind created by bad karma wears out, and then you reach nirvana with no remainder. They call it, first you have a nirvana with something left over from your birth, and then later you reach nirvana without anything left over. They always put it into two pieces like that.

First, you're in samsara. You're caught in the wheel of life. Then you get out of the wheel of life mentally, but your body hasn't caught up yet.

That's called nirvana with something left, with something lousy left over. Then that dies, that wears out, and then you reach nirvana with nothing left over. So that's the lower school's presentation of nirvana with something left over, and then later comes nirvana with nothing left over.

Okay, got it? Now, next picture, Francisco. Look, I got an idiot on IR.

I'm sorry, AI. Not IR. I'm sorry.

I spend, my wife knows, I spend many, many, many hours every day working on this stuff. I tell the AI, do this, and he's like, and I spend about half an hour on one picture, and then I say, I'll just take it. Anyway, I said, show me a diamond with a subway running left to right behind the diamond, and he just couldn't get it.

The idea here, there's a diamond on the subway platform, and the subway train is moving down the platform. Got it? The train is approaching the platform.

There's a huge diamond in the platform. The train hits the diamond line, and then the train continues beyond past the diamond. Got it?

That's the higher school's opinion of nirvana with something left over and nirvana with nothing left over. They would say, now this is a very interesting, mysterious thing. They say nirvana with nothing left over happens first, and then you get to nirvana with something left over.

The lower school is easy. First, you have something left over, which is your old body and mind that you took on, and then that wears out and that dies, that body and mind dies, and then somehow you're still around and you reach nirvana. Then the higher schools, Nagarjuna, he says, you guys got it wrong.

It's the reverse. First, you reach nirvana with nothing left, and then you reach nirvana with something left. That's very, very famous.

That's a very, very famous Arya Nagarjuna thing. The mayor of Rimrock is going to explain it. No?

Okay. Briefly. So nirvana with nothing left over means you get out of the wheel of suffering, without bodhicitta, and then when you have nirvana, oh, the diamond.

What's the diamond represent? Rob? Whoa, I don't know if this is a good system.

Some old bodies and mind might be.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, their nirvana with nothing left over would be the direct perception of emptiness.

[Speaker 1]
Good.

[Speaker 2]
And the nirvana with something left over is when you come out of the direct perception.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, so they would say, Arya Nagarjuna would say, when you see emptiness directly, while the train hits the diamond, you are in nirvana with nothing left over. And then when you come out of that, you pick the old luggage back up. You pick the old suitcase back up.

You start seeing things as coming from their side again. Okay, cool. By the way, that's the ultimate meaning of maya in Buddhism.

What's maya? Maya is the name of Lord Buddha's mom. Yeah, her name means illusion.

But illusion means you saw emptiness directly. You know things are not coming this way. But then when you come out of emptiness, you can't see it anymore, but you still remember.

Then that's called kind of a crazy period in your life. Because you know you're wrong, but you can't stop it. It's a...

What do you call that? It's a conflicted thing. Does the pen come from you?

Yes. Do you see it that way? No.

Even when you teach it? Can I see Michael? Yeah, even when I teach it, I see it as coming from its side.

Well, just stop it. I can't. I'm in nirvana with remainder.

I'm still carrying the old baggage of my old mental habits. Then that's why an Arya can get upset. That's why an Arya can complain day after day about not having enough time.

Okay? They know it's coming from them, but they can't remember. Or they can't see it at that time.

That's why Arya is not an arhat. That's why an Arya still has negative emotions. Arhat, someone who reached nirvana, they stopped all the seeds to see things coming from their own side.

But an Arya, a baby Arya or early Arya, by the way, every arhat is also an Arya. Every Buddha is also an Arya. But generally, Arya means a person who had the experience of emptiness directly, but still see things coming from their own side and cannot stop themselves.

That weird existence for 500 years, typically 500 years, is called illusion. They understand it's an illusion, but they can't stop it. Then slowly, because they saw that everything's coming from them, slowly they're able to stop their anger, desire, jealousy.

An Arya is improving fast. That's why they're a stream-enterer. That's why they're on their way out.

They're improving, inexorably improving. No one can stop it. If they wanted to stop, they couldn't stop it.

Once you see emptiness directly, you know from the first day that every... I almost said asshole, but my wife is here. Every irritating person you ever meet was coming from you, but you can't stop being irritated.

That's a baby Arya. Then they have to work, work, work, and then they become an arhat. Then they reach nirvana.

They reach nirvana without any baggage first, and then they pick up the baggage again and struggle with it until they reach arhat. You see what I mean? Got it?

We finished that one. Next picture. This is called parinirvana.

This is a Vietnamese image actually from Vietnam. There's many, many carvings and statues. In English they say, Oh, Buddha reached his final nirvana.

It's a polite way to say he kicked a bucket. In English we say he died. So they will say...

They don't want to say Buddha died, so they say Buddha reached his final nirvana. It always irritated me. I said, just look, say he died.

No, he reached his final nirvana. The name of this idim, the name of this picture for all of ACI future history is parinirvana colon last chapter in the big act. Last chapter in the big act.

Lord Buddha performed 12 miraculous deeds in his lifetime. Every Buddha, male, female, Tara, performed 12 great deeds in her last lifetime. Those are called the big act.

tsultrimpa, say tsultrimpa. Tsultrimpa means really good at pretending. The whole thing, from getting born, to growing up in the palace, to seeing the dead man, to going out to the forest, to hanging out with his five friends, to sitting under the Bodhi tree, to reaching his enlightenment, to sitting for seven weeks because no one's going to understand this, and then teaching for the rest of his life.

And then lay down in the parinirvana. What do you call it? Final nirvana.

It's all a big show. It's all a big play. And it's played out countless times on countless worlds.

Many, many Buddhas are playing right now on different planets. Karin had this beautiful... Where are you?

She had this beautiful photo that she took of the Milky Way. We are on the edge of our galaxy. Earth is on the edge of a huge circular galaxy of billions and billions of planets.

And it's only from Diamond Mountain that you can see them. We're on the edge of it. So when you have a really dark night, right now it's a lousy time to watch the sky because it's full moon.

Close to full moon. But on a new moon, on a black moon here, you can see that we are on the edge of the galaxy. And you can see the rest of the galaxy from Diamond Mountain.

It's very beautiful. It looks like a strip of stars. It's actually like that, and we're on the edge.

So on every... They say in a one inch square there's billions and billions of planets. So there are billions of Buddhas right now pretending to get born, pretending to get educated, pretending to get a great idea, and then pretending to reach this kind of nirvana.

Why I show this kind of nirvana is I want you to forget about it. It's got nothing to do with nirvana. Buddha didn't have to die.

Buddha didn't lay down, even though he looks comfortable. So just cancel that. In your list of nirvanas, just forget that one.

That's all a big show. It is, though, a very important teaching on impermanence. And every Buddhist leader and every Buddhist teacher will talk about their own death, the end of their teaching, the end of their time on this earth.

That's Buddhism. I like it. I think it's good.

I think to have a religion where the leaders of the religion say, look, you're all impermanent, and I am too. And let's do what we can do while we have time because we won't be here long. I think it's great.

I think it's beautiful. I think that Buddhist leaders can say, Buddha himself said, look, I'm going to disappear and then my teaching will disappear in this world. And to be so honest about impermanence, that, hey, guess what?

Impermanence applies to me too. And impermanence applies to my teaching too. And to speak about it openly, to speak about it honestly, I think it's very healthy for an organization and for Buddhists.

It's healthy to say, we're all in this together and we will all disappear one by one, alone. Each person will go alone. And even the teacher will go alone and the teaching will die out.

You can do the five houses, but then there'll be four and then there'll be three and then everybody will say, what, five houses? And as you create the five houses, it's healthy Buddhism to say, I know they won't last forever, but let's give the world the five houses for as long as we can. And then that will help the world.

And I'll meet you in the next life. Don't be late. You know this song?

Jimi Hendrix, okay. Next picture. We still got five minutes.

Am I right, Tim? Right? Oh, we got that thing called Q&A.

Guess I forgot what it is. Okay, next picture. Yeah.

Then Arya Nagarjuna says, look, does nirvana last forever? Does nirvana last forever? Now, as a Buddhist, try to understand the contradiction here.

You have to trigger, you have to create, you have to give birth to your nirvana and then it's going to last forever. And you won't pop out of nirvana, which means come back to a dead body. You see what I mean?

Do you get the problem? All things which have causes die. All things which are created come to an end.

So the other guys like, what about nirvana, Mr. Arya Nagarjuna? Can you achieve nirvana? Yes.

Does that mean you didn't have it and then you had it? Yes. Does that mean you did something to make it happen?

Yes. Then how the hell can you stay there forever? Then it's impermanent.

Your big teaching, Mr. Buddha, oh, Mr. Nagarjuna, your big teaching is anything that has a cause will end. Then how come we don't pop out of nirvana? How can you stay in nirvana forever?

There's no such thing. You taught there's no such thing. How can you achieve a thing which lasts forever?

There's no such thing. That's pretty cool, right? It's a pretty good complaint, I would say.

Now, I'm going to give you a clue. You can chew on it in your retreat. I'll give you a clue.

By the way, the next topic we're going to cover is the wheel. The 12 links of the wheel. We talk about dependence.

There's a big deal in Buddhism. Everything is dependent. Everything depends on something else.

There's two kinds of dependence. Number one, all things depend on their causes. All changing things.

All changing things depend on their causes. I don't know. Rice depends on rice seed.

Wheat depends on wheat seed. Corn depends on corn seed. Shigua depends on shigua zhong tu.

I'm not as good as Jasmine, but I learned one word for every hundred words she learned. Anyway, that's one kind of dependence. By the way, the lower schools are kind of obsessed by that kind of dependence, cause and effect.

What's dependent origination? All things start in dependence on other things. Then you have to appreciate that there's a higher dependent origination.

That's that all things depend on your perceptions. All things depend on how you see them. All things depend on names.

By the way, when you say the higher dependent origination, doesn't mean all things come from causes. It means all things come from your perceptions. All things come from your seeds.

All things come from names. There's a big deal about names and labels, and all I want you to remember, and never forget it. When Buddhism says names, all things are name only, name only, label, all things are labeled, it means all things are ice cream with chocolate sauce.

What's that mean? It means that we take the parts of a pen, the tube and the color, we take the shape and the color, and then on top of it we pour the chocolate sauce. I'm getting hungry.

We pour the chocolate sauce of the pictures that come out of our mind, and that's dependent origination. The higher dependent origination doesn't mean everything comes from causes. The higher, the real dependent origination means the world is all pieces which are put together by your mental pictures, and each person has different mental pictures.

Each person is experiencing a different world. An insect doesn't see a pen. A dog doesn't see a pen.

A human sees a pen. The parts are the same. The pieces are the same.

But their mind has a new picture on top of that, and that is timeless, and that is not what you would call cause and effect. It is not. That's a dependence, which in a way is beyond time, and it's beyond growing and stopping.

In the moment that is happening, it's beyond time. It is not seeds and sprouts. It is pictures and parts, and that's beyond time.

You can have pictures on top of parts and not talk about seeds and sprouts. You see what I mean? There's two kinds of dependence in Buddhism.

One is over time. The seed causes the sprout. That's a lower school dependence.

Higher dependence. The pen in a single moment, the pen in a single moment is just pieces of something that you put your pictures on, and that's eternal. That happens in a moment.

The relationship of a whole to the parts is different. That dependence is different from the dependence of supplanting a seed and then having something grow out of it. Which one do you think is Arya Nagarjuna's version of nirvana?

He wants the higher dependent origination. He says, no. Nirvana is not something that wasn't there and then was there because you planted the seed.

Nirvana, when it happens, is a timeless mental picture on timeless pieces. Therefore, it doesn't come and go. Therefore, it will not end.

Therefore, you can keep it. You got to cook it. You got to cook it.

You got to cook the difference between two dependent originations. One is easy. Kill somebody, you will be killed.

Those who live by the sword, die by the sword. That's so beautiful. That's one.

That's cause and effect in one sense. But the higher cause and effect, the higher dependence is that you are surrounded by pieces and you make your own holes. Each person makes their own holes according to the pictures that they have in their mind.

That's also dependence. Things depend on your pictures and that's it in a single instant. That's in a single instant.

That dependence, in a way, is timeless. If you could achieve that kind of nirvana, you could stay there. Got it?

You got to think, cook it. You got to cook it. Understand the other guy's problem.

Understand the other guy's complaint. It's fair and it's a good complaint. How can you achieve nirvana and stay there?

Because all things with causes have to end. Then you should pop out of nirvana after a while. When the seeds wear out, you should pop out of nirvana.

Ah! To reach nirvana in the highest meaning of dependence means... Okay?

To reach nirvana in the highest meaning of dependence means that you would have to create a self-perpetuating seed system. I'll say it again. To reach nirvana in the highest idea of dependence, you would have to continually create a self-perpetuating seed system.

You'd have to create a system where the energy you put into it is replaced all the time. I'll give you an example. Don't forget it.

In the DCI system... By the way, we're going to be filming some DCI this week at Diamond Mountain because I have a surgery. I have a small muscle surgery here in two weeks or something like that.

So I can't do all the filming for SCIM during SCIM. So anyway, we'll be doing some filming like that. Is it possible to replenish seeds as you use them?

In DCI, what we teach is... It's an interesting concept. I don't want you to ever forget it because it's the answer to the question here.

The answer to the question here is if you produce seeds for financial success, like if you're starting a little diamond jewelry company with three people and three diamonds, and you want to reach a company that's processing 300,000 diamonds every day, that used to own three diamonds and used to sit... We started on half a table. We rented half a table.

The guy wouldn't let us sit on the other half of the table. So you sell something. You make $100 or you win $100 in the class.

Then what's the answer to the nirvana question? How does this relate to the nirvana question? Every time you get some result from your seed planting, take some of that money and donate it somewhere.

Then that will double again, and that will double again, and that will double again, and that's the answer to the nirvana question. Every time you do something good, every time the result comes to you, reinvest. Then that becomes an endless cycle.

Then you never fall out of nirvana. You see what I mean? Got it?

Is there a cause and effect? Yes. But it's a cycle.

It's a self-perpetuating cycle forever. It's not like nirvana wears out and you stop being in nirvana. If you keep helping other people, if you keep reinvesting the results you get, it just gets bigger and bigger and bigger.

I can tell you, I'm not a super wealthy person because I always give it away. Unfortunately, I give away more than I get. But what I'm saying is, it just multiplies on itself.

I'm a grandpa. I'm a real grandpa now. I can tell you from 50 years of practice, it just gets bigger and bigger and bigger, and you can't stop it.

Nirvana is the same. Well-invested nirvana will last forever. It doesn't matter that it started with the seed.

Got it? It's a self-perpetuating cycle, similar to the samsara cycle. I know I'm supposed to stop, but I'm not going to.

Q&A gets pushed off again. I've been accused of never wanting to do a Q&A, but it's not true. I just always have more to say, which my wife can also confirm.

Next picture. There's another kind of nirvana that you should know about. At least you should know about it.

And guessing from the background in this picture, what would you call it? Natural nirvana. There's a kind of nirvana in Buddhism called natural nirvana, and it's a code word for emptiness itself.

All things have a nirvana inside of them, but it doesn't mean they don't have headaches anymore. The microphone has natural nirvana. The room has natural nirvana.

You have natural nirvana. That's a code word for emptiness itself. It doesn't mean end of suffering, but obviously there's a deep connection.

Let's see if I got any more pictures here. How can we do this? I think we finished nirvana.

Let's see. Oh, one more, right? 6.25?

Skipped that one. Yeah, here we go. Last thing, okay?

And I will end on time. Without a cure, really. na sansara sya nirvana kinche dasdivishe shanam na nirvana sya sansara kinche dasdivishe shanam The Sanskrit is quite beautiful.

There's not the slightest difference between sansara and nirvana. There's not the slightest difference between nirvana and sansara. This is very, very famous Arya Nagarjuna talk.

This is very, very famous. Like Arya Nagarjuna's teachings on emptiness, this verse has been misunderstood for 2,000 years. Then you get these weird Buddhists who say nirvana and sansara are the same.

Therefore, I can just go to parties every night and get drunk. It's all the same. Hangover and drunk is the same.

You hear Buddhist schools throughout history, weird, uneducated, stupid, negative, mistaken, suffering people who say, oh, Nagarjuna said nirvana and sansara are the same. I can just do what I like. I'm beyond morality.

I'm a high yogi. I'm a real tantrica. I can kill things, and it's a holy thing, and I can do naughty things, and that's a good thing.

You hear this kind of thing. What did, for $100? Impossible.

Stop reading my mind. For $100, what did Arya Nagarjuna mean when he said nirvana is sansara, and sansara is nirvana? He said, by the way, he said, SKYES PAR CHUNG ZE SKYES PAR CHUNG ZE means no difference at all.

It's like at all. CHUNG ZE means no difference at all. Okay, talk loud.

[Speaker 2]
As long as I understand. So it means that sansara is cycle and nirvana is cycle, and sansara starting with the seeds, we're planting all over and over. That's why it's causing cycle, the bad seeds.

And then the good seeds, which lead us to nirvana, and we're going to cycle in nirvana same, pretty much same time. That's what he meant, because it's coming from the seeds.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, there's a problem here. Sometimes somebody gives a $200 answer to a $100 question. We have it somewhere here.

Yeah, that's a $200 answer to a $100 question. Yeah, perfect, perfect answer. Yeah, there's two cycles here.

And they're both cycles, but one's a happy cycle and one's a miserable cycle. That's all. Please, when you teach nirgajima, please teach this verse and tell people, wake up.

Nirgajima is not saying you should go get drunk every night because samsara is the same as nirvana, isn't it? Please do your best through the rest of your life to fight these stupid ideas about Buddhism. Okay, all right?

Promise? Okay, now you have to do the other cycle in the bathroom. So I'll see you in 15 minutes, Tim?

30? Oh, okay. I'll see you at 8.15. Okay, thank you.