Нагарджуна, курс 4 — Мудрость Арьи Нагарджуны, курс 4: Тайна глав (2022, Аризона), занятие 9

[Speaker 1]
Hi, welcome back to Nagarjuna. We're going to start with some Sanskrit words that are good to know for the tough task ahead of further exploring that special moment when everything you need for something to happen has come together, but the thing, and what you want to happen is about to pop out. So that point in time, and we were, here in the studio, we were discussing, is there a good English word for that?

There is a word. I mean, there's an idiom you say, everything came together or something like that, but we don't have a single word for it. In Sanskrit, there is a single word for it, and that's samagriha.

Say samagriha. Samagriha. Samagriha, yeah.

And you can see it here. And when the causes and conditions do come together, that's called samagriha. Sama, generally, I started to try to work on breaking this word down, right, Christina, which is what we normally do.

And sama in Tibetan is dum, dumbo, which means for everything to come together. So I thought, oh, here I'm on a roll. Sama is together.

So griha must be come, or maybe it's related to grh, to grab, or to come. And then I checked Monier Williams, which is probably the greatest Sanskrit dictionary of all time. And he said, no, no, no.

It comes from samagriha, samagriha. Yeah, and Christina, as you just said, agra means the tip, like the steps of Durla, tru, tsemo, supa, chodro, tsemo, second one, or the city, agra, where the Taj Mahal is located. Agra means the tip, or the top point.

So in Monier Williams, it's explained as samagriha. So it comes from samagriha, meaning some meaning totally and also came together. And then agra means tip, which means the pinnacle.

So think of it as that way, the pinnacle of readiness, or the pinnacle of conjunction. Everything came together perfectly, agra. So he claims it comes from that.

That would normally be a push on the way it looks to me, but I think it's fine. It makes a good story, I should say. And by the way, discussing these points in Sanskrit can be endless.

Over the centuries, people have tried over the centuries. I think if you find one that sounds reasonable and also tells a story or tells a useful point, I'll take it. And if it helps my students to remember the pieces, I'll take it.

Okay, all right. Okay, the second word I'd like you guys to learn is pala. Okay, pala.

And in Tibetan, it's ndebu. And the verbal root pal means to fruit or to ripen as a fruit. It also means to expand or burst like a balloon.

And the words fall, the words pure, the word ball, the word bur as in Singapore, Rajpur. Singapur means full of lands. And then pura became the word for city because it means full of people.

So again, P can change to F, R can change to L, and you get full. From all these pala. So the idea of a fruit expanding until it's ready to pop open and then you bite into it.

So that's pala. That's in Sanskrit, that's a result. So these are going to be easy to remember, right?

Samagriha, the tip of everything coming together. And then pala meaning fruit. Whoever's outside can come in there, they're wondering.

I think it's hustle. All right. Now we've reached another point in the outline.

And we had already examined, is the opening of the cafe somehow present in the final coming together of everything you need to open the cafe? And we had arguments for and arguments against. And now Choney Lama says, the next verse of Nagarjuna, you can consider DE LA YOD MA'I NYID DGAG PA.

Actually, we just denied the two possibilities that the opening of the cafe was present in the coming together of everything you need to open the cafe. And we also denied the possibility that it wasn't present somehow, or else anything could come out of all the causes coming together. Now he says, let's deny the possibility of BUD, that it is there and it isn't there.

So he changes the wording here. He doesn't say, does a result which is already present in the conditions arise? Now he just says, is it even a possibility?

So a little bit different, different shade. We're not discussing, can that result pop out? We're discussing, does it even make sense to say it does or doesn't exist at the time of the assembling of the conditions?

Final, perfect assembly of the conditions. Sambhagya. All right, here we go.

GAL TE RGYU DANG KHYAD RNAMS KYIS SOGS LA BDE BU YOD NA NI SOGS LA GSUNGS DU YOD RIGS NA SOGS PA NYID LA GSUNGS DU MED GAL TE RGYU DANG KHYAD RNAMS KYIS SOGS LA BDE BU MED NA NI RGYU RNAMS DANG RGYEN DAG YANG GYUR KHYAD MA YIN TSUNGS PA RGYU ROL PA And as you see, I'm always, well, you can't see it here, but it's an interesting point that the version of Nagarjuna being used by Choney Lama is slightly different than the version of Nagarjuna found in John Brady's database in the Tengyur.

So what we have here is probably one of the early translations of an ancient Indian book that didn't make it as a choice. And Tsongkapa likes to say, I like to read the ones that didn't make it into the Tengyur, because sometimes they're better. Or sometimes some of the verses are better.

So you can imagine, I don't know, 50 years from now, people trying to choose which translation of this book is going to be the standard. And whichever they choose, it's going to have some weaknesses that were not present in some of the alternatives. And what we have here, I mean, if you're really a textual nerd, you have a version that was popular somehow even before the final decision was made.

And there are some interesting differences. And they tell stories. They're profitable to study if you have lots of free time.

But if people are texting you all morning, it's not profitable. Okay. GZHAN YANG GAL TE RGYUR DANG KHYAD RNAMS KYI RTZOGS PA LA BRAL BUR BSTAN PA'I DGOS NAS YOD NA NI Now he says, let's not discuss whether or not the opening of the cafe is present in the convening of everything you need to open the cafe, like a jewel in a ring or something.

Let's not look at it that way. Let's look at it this way. Is it present in an implied way in that it leans upon the convening of the causes and conditions?

It rests upon or it depends upon the convening of. So let's not say it's nested in the causes and conditions. Let's look at whether it can rely on the causes and conditions, if it can lean on the causes and conditions.

Can it be present in the sense of leaning on the causes and conditions? So it's a little bit different, right? Not, is it present nested in the causes and conditions?

Is it present leaning on the causes and conditions? So that's what we're going to look at now. GAL TE RGYU DANG KHYAD NA NI RTZOGS PA LA BRAL BUR MED NA I'm sorry.

Oops. GAL TE RGYU DANG KHYAD NA NI RTZOGS PA LA BRAL BUR RGYAL TE DGONGS NAS YOD NA MI THEG DE If you say the result is present in the convening of all the necessary causes and conditions in the sense of leaning on them, DE YIN NA RTZOGS PA LA BRAL BUR MED SOGS SRUNG DU YOD RIGS NA In that case, it should be somehow detectable in the causes and conditions. If it were leaning on the causes and conditions, if it were present in the sense of the glass resting upon the table, then it should somehow be perceivable in the causes and conditions.

If it were in a necessary appendage of the causes and conditions, then when you saw the causes and conditions, you should somehow be able to see the result that's going to come out of the causes and conditions. It should be present like a cup resting on the table. And he says, but that's not right.

DE YIN NA RTZOGS PA LA BRAL BUR MED SOGS SRUNG DU YOD RIGS NA If it were present in the act of leaning on the causes and conditions or resting on the causes and conditions, then it should be detectable by some correct perception. We said that was the definition of the business, but it's not. There's no way you can perceive the actual operating cafe in the presence of the building and the capital and the uncooked food.

You see what I mean? You cannot see it. It's not observable in the causes and conditions before it pops out.

So cancel that idea. Then he's... Now, how's he going to go next?

You tell me. I'll say what he said so far. You tell me what he's going to say next.

Is the opening of the cafe present in all the conditions and causes for it to open in a way that it leans on them or it's resting on them? And you say, no. And I say, why?

And you say, because we can't observe it at that point in time. Then I say, then what will Nagarjuna do next? Yeah, are they disconnected?

Is it not resting on the causes and conditions? Then he says, ,GAL TE RGYUD NA GYUR NA MI SOGS PA LA BDE BU, ,ME NA YANG MI STE, ME NA YANG means, and if it's not leaning on the causes and conditions, or if it's not present there, resting on the causes and conditions, it's also impossible. Right?

It's that Nagarjunian options. Both options are impossible. We need a...

Give me the Tibetan word for $100.

[Speaker 2]
Pungsum.

[Speaker 1]
Oh my God.

[Speaker 2]
Kali, $100.

[Speaker 1]
Collect it from Jigme when she comes back. She's visiting her relatives in California. From Holland or something.

Okay. It's also incorrect to say that the omni and the kaphe is not resting upon the causes and conditions in the time of the causes and conditions because, ,NYUG DU LTA BU'I RGYUD RNAMS DANG KHYAD DAG KYANG, ,DE'I KHYOD KHYAD MA YIN PA, then there would be no necessary relationship between the opening of the kaphe and the conditions for the opening of the kaphe if the opening of the kaphe were not necessarily dependent on those causes and conditions.

And in that case, he says, you could use... Take the picture, Tim. You could use a lump of coal to open the kaphe.

And apparently in Tibet, this is like, if you want to give an example of some ridiculous thing that could be the cause of what you're talking about, if it wasn't the causes it was supposed to be, you'd say, I said rabbit turd, right? Something like that. He said lump of coal.

So, do so, which you'll never see. But do so means a coal rock. Then a coal rock should...

Then coal rocks, then ready to operate, I'm sorry, operating kaphes, kaphes on their opening day should pop out of random coal rocks laying around on the ground if there didn't have to be some relationship between them. Okay, got it? All right, we got through that one.

God bless. Let's see if it's... You're always hoping it gets easier and usually it doesn't.

By the time you're hoping it gets easier, it's hopeless. Okay, RGYUD NAS SKYE BA RGAGS PA If the result of the kaphe opening doesn't pop directly out of the causes and conditions coming together, is it a possibility that it pops out indirectly? I'll say it again.

If it's not the case that the open kaphe pops out of the coming together of the causes and conditions for the opening of the kaphe, then can the causes and conditions coming together somehow in time create the opening of the kaphe? Meaning after some time has passed. Is there somehow an interim period between the convening of the necessary causes and conditions and the popping out of the kaphe where you can get the cinnamon rolls?

Karni's ultimate challenge. Make the same taste with all healthy ingredients as the signature product of the kaphe. I didn't say J.B. like a chemist, mad chemist with his...

What's that sugar called? Monk's fruit sugar, trying to get the taste of a cinnamon roll. I don't agree with that.

The odds are not very great. Okay, here we go. Here's the verse.

GAL TE RGYU YI BRAS BU LA RGYU CAN NAS NI RGAGS RGYUR NA GANG CING PA DANG GANG RGAGS PAS RGYU YI DANG NYID NYIS SU BRAS GAL TE RGYU YI BRAS BU LA RGYU MA CHIN PAR RGAGS RGYUR NA RGYU RGAGS NAS NI SKYES PA'I BRAS BU DE DAG GYUR MED YOD What time we stopped him? Sorry. In four...

30 minutes from now. Four, five o'clock. Okay, good.

All right, here we go. Now, to understand or to appreciate this verse, can you bring the verse back? I want you to appreciate a certain verse, a certain word here.

Which is CHIN. It's the second word here in the second line. And it's the second word in the third line.

CHIN. And CHIN is obviously related to the word give. So the name of the first perfection of the six bodhisattva perfections is JIN PA, right?

Which is giving. With an S in front of it. But here you've just got CHIN.

And this is a very unique usage of the verb that means to spit out a result. Okay? It means to spit out a result.

All right? And it's also the verb that you use for distilling medicines from medicinal herbs. It's called CHIN.

So somehow you boil the herbs and then they JIN the, they yield this special, yield is a good, they give forth this medicinal liquid. And then you throw out the herbs that you distilled the liquid from. And those thrown out herbs are allowed to monks and nuns.

They have to search the garbage cans for the used husks. Okay? And they're not allowed to wear new cloth and things like that.

They're supposed to live off of what society has thrown out. It's a pretty cool idea, actually. Anyway, so get this feeling.

When you're talking about cause and effect, what would the word JIN mean? Or when you're talking about the convergence of the causes and conditions, what would the word JIN mean? It spit out the open cafe.

Okay? The open cafe squirted out, like the medicine out of the herbs. You see what I mean?

After they're boiled, as they're boiled. So try to get in your mind this concept that maybe has no particular word in English, of causes and conditions assembling in the final moment. And then, pooh, they spit out a finished cafe.

They spit out a cafe on the opening day. Okay? All right?

And we're going to talk about the status of the cause before the spitting, during the spitting, and after the spitting. We're going to talk about the status of the causes and conditions that came together after they have spit out the finished cafe, or as they're spitting out the finished cafe, or even after. Did I say after?

Or before. Okay? Here we go.

,GAL TE RGYU RANG GIS BDE PO'I LAM NGOS SU BSKYED PA'I NYID PA, ,'CHOS NI BDE PO'I SNGAGS RGAGS PAS, If it's the case that the cause, I don't know how to say it. If it's the case that the cause exhibits its power to produce something, if it's the case that the cause ejects the result, I don't know, spits out the result, ,NYID PA BYAS NAS, and then wears itself out. Okay, here we go.

Is it the case that once the causes and conditions for their cafe to open have spit out a cafe on the opening day, then do they exhaust themselves? And you'd say, yes. I mean, those particular, the money that you saved for the opening on the first day has spit out the cafe, and when the cafe is there, that money is gone already.

So is it the case that in the direct production of the result, the cause has worn itself out, has exhausted itself before the result, or when? After the result? He's asking, okay.

,RJE BA SNGA RGAGS PAS, Let's say that the jin power, the production power, spitting out power of the seed is exhausted by the time the cafe opens. Let's say that. ,RGAGS PAR NI, ,RIG PA'I MI NUS DO, This is the other guy.

He says, look, I don't see why you have a problem, Nagarjuna. When all the money, and all the workers, and all the food, uncooked food has come together and spit out the cafe on the first day of the cafe's opening, then yeah, they have used up their power by definition. That's what causes do.

They wear themselves out by creating the result. He says, I don't see a problem. That's his position.

What's Nagarjuna's position? ,GAL TE RGYU YID NI, ,DE BU LA BYAS GYIR BYIN NAS, ,RGAGS PAR GYUR NA, If the cause exhausts itself in producing the result, ,DE BU LA GANG CANG PA'I BYAS GYUR, ,DANG GANG ZHIG RGAGS PA'I RGYU YID, ,BDAG NYID NYID ZIN TSE SOGS SU MAR GYUR NA, Then in that case, the cafe that was spit out and the cause that spit it out can no longer have a relationship because the causes used themselves up to spit it out.

A cause that has exhausted itself and therefore gone out of existence cannot have a relationship with an open cafe. Okay, all right. All right, got it?

,BYIN PA'I RGYUR NA GYUR ZHIG RGAGS PA'I RGYU, ,BDAG NYID ZIN TSE SOGS SU MAR GYUR NA, ,MI RIG STE DE NYID GANG RGYUR TSUN PA'I RGYUR BU, ,RGAGS PAR If the result somehow had to make contact with a cause that had worn itself out, then the result should have worn itself out also. I'll say it again. If the finished result somehow has a relationship with a seed or a convening of causes and conditions, which has already worn itself out, then something that does exist is having a relationship with something that no longer exists, and that's not good.

If the cause uses itself up to produce the result, that's illogical because the result could never have contact with the cause because the cause would be gone by the time the result occurs. Then there would be no cause and effect. And then a lump of coal could open the cafe because there's no connection there either.

Everything that didn't have a connection could cause the cafe to open. That's what we're really hoping. ,BDAG NYID GANG RGYUR TSUN PA'I RGYUR, Yeah, and he further says that the other option is that in the moment that it was spit out, the result ended because it was spit out by an ending cause.

And only things of the same nature can touch each other. So if the cause exhausts itself to produce the result, then if they have contact, if that particular result could have contact with that particular kind of cause, then it would have to be a result that was blinking out of existence even as it came into existence. Because that's what its brother is doing and they're holding hands.

I'm not even going to try the picture. Okay, give it up Tim. ,GAL TE RGYU YID NI, ,BRAS BU LA BYAS KYIS MA BYIN PA, ,SNGAGS SLOGS NAS, ,RGAGS PAR GYUR NA NI MI THEG PA'I, ,RGYUD RGAGS PA'I RJE NAS NI, ,SKYES PA HA YID, ,BRAS BU LA NYID DU BRTAG PAR DE DAG NI, ,SKYES NA NI RGYU YID NI, ,BRAS BU LA BYAS KYIS MA BYIN PA, ,GAL TE RGYU YID NI, ,BRAS BU LA BYAS KYIS MA BYIN PA, Now, if the cause could produce the result before the cause had exhausted itself, if the cause could produce the result before it had exhausted itself in the producing.

There's problems if it exhausts itself totally in the producing because then the result doesn't have anybody to connect with. So maybe the other guy is going to say, you know what, most of the cause wears itself out and then the result happens. So then there's still a relationship.

There's still some cause there to have a relationship. ,MA BYIN PA, ,'GA LA SOGS RGAGS PAR RGYUR NA NI MI THEG PA'I, ,RGYUD MA BYIN PA, Then somehow, if the cause were to disappear before it, before the result was all the way out, ,RGYUD RGAGS PA'I RJE NAS NI, ,SKYES PA'I YID BRAS BU LA NYID DU BRTAG PAR DE DAG NI, ,RGYUD NAS NGOS SOGS MI RGYUR BA'I KHO NA RGYUR BA'I, In that, if, I'm sorry, let's say it differently. If the cause exhausted itself, there was a break and then the result came out, that's also impossible.

If the cause exhausts itself, takes a break and then the result comes out, that's also impossible. Because something like the sprout coming out would have to arise without the presence of the cause. The sprout would have to come out after a moment has passed in which the seed already disappeared.

It'd have to be a gap. ,RGYUD MED PA'I PHYUNG BA'I RGYUR BA'I KHYEN YIN PA'I PHYIN TE, Why? ,DE BA DANG RGYUD RGAGS PA RANG BZHIN GYI GRUB NA, If the ending of the, if the stopping of the result and the stopping of the cause existed by nature, ,RGYUD LA BSTAN PA YANG RANG BZHIN GYI YONG DGOS NA, ,YOD NA, ,BRAS BU DE BYUNG BA YANG RGYUD MED DE BYUNG BA YANG RGYUR BA'I KHYEN, ,BRAS BU DANG RGYUD RGAGS PA RANG BZHIN GYI GRUB NA, If the ending of the cause and the ending of the result existed from their own side, ,DE RGYUD LA BSTAN PA YANG, then the relying of the result on the cause, RANG BZHIN GYI YONG DGOS NA, that relationship would have to exist by nature. ,YOD NA, If the relationship between the result and the cause existed by nature, ,BRAS BU DE BYUNG BA YANG RGYUD MED DE BYUNG BA'I PHYUR, then the result could happen without the cause. If the relationship existed by nature, because then the result would exist by nature.

And existing by nature implies that you don't depend on some other thing. ,DE LTAR NA RGYUD RGAGS BZHIN NAS BRAS BU SKYES DGOS NA, ,DE MI DE DE, Therefore, it's illogical to say that the cause has worn itself out and then the result came. After the cause had worn itself out, why?

,RGYUD RGAGS BZHIN PA DANG BRAS BU SKYES BZHIN PA NYID, ,DU NYAMS PA'I PHYIR, Because in that case, the time of the exhausting of the cause and the time of the wearing out of the result should be simultaneous. Because they have a relationship, but one, and one can, they have a relationship. One must be present when the other is present.

Do the cause and effect have relationship? Yes. Should one be present when the other is present?

Yeah, you can't have relationship if two people are not in the room together. Well, is the cause wearing itself out at that moment? Yes.

So okay, the result is also wearing itself out. So in the final moment of the cause doing its thing, the result will blink out of existence. Why?

They're holding hands in the same room. It can't be that the cause disappears and then the result appears because then nobody will hold hands with them. So if it's the case that the cause is wearing itself out to produce the result, then the result would have to be wearing itself out at the same time that the cause is wearing itself out.

And they should both pop out of existence at the same time. Okay, something easier now, I promise. The whole structure of this chapter was, I don't know if you remember because it was a long time ago, but does the perfect convening of causes and conditions occur before the result pops out or at the same, or somehow simultaneous to the result popping out, or somehow does the result pop out first and then they convene?

Three possibilities, right? We're going on to the second possibility, which is what? They are simultaneous.

The convening of the causes and conditions of the opening of the cafe happen at the same time as the opening of the cafe. Let's look at this possibility. We just established, by the way, that they cannot come together before the cafe opens.

Now we look at, is it possible for them to happen at the same time? Sorry. ,GAL TE TSOGS DANG LHAN CIG DUG BRAS BU YANG NI, ,SKYE RGYUD NA, I'm sorry.

If it were the case that the result of the cafe opening popped out at the same time as the final payment came in from the loan, ,SKYE PAR BYED DANG SKYE BYA'I GANG, ,'JUG CIG PAR NI MTHONG BA'I RGYUR, then the cause spitting out the result and the result spit out by the cause should be simultaneous. If the convening of the causes and conditions and the opening of the cafe somehow overlap, then you couldn't divide the cause from the result. There'd be no clear distinction between what was opening the cafe and the cafe being opened.

,GAL TE RGYUD KHYEN GYI TSOGS PA NI, ,BRAS BU DANG LHAN CIG BSKYED PA, ,GNYIS BRAS BU'I SKYE BYED DU RGYUR RO BZHIN NA, If it's the case that the convening of the causes and conditions happens at the same time as they're coming out of the cause, the result, as the result. If you say that, ,GAL TE RGYUD KHYEN GYI TSOGS PA DANG LHAN CIG DUG BRAS, ,YANG NI SKYE BA RGYUR LA NI, DE DE It would be impossible, it'd be incorrect to say that the cafe opened at the same moment that everything you need for the cafe to open finally came together. Why?

,SKYE BAR BYED PAR RGYUD DANG, ,SKYE BAR BYED PAR BRAS BU GANG YIN PA DE NI, ,DU BYED DU YOD PA NI MI THAL BAR GYUR BAR BYED, In that case, they would have to be simultaneous. The opening of the cafe and the final moment of all the stuff needed for the cafe to open would be happening at the same time. Probably the day before the cafe opened.

,DE LTAR MI RUNG STE, ,'BYUNG NYAMS PA LA SKYE BYAS SKYE BYAS MA THOB PA'I PHYIR RO, And that's incorrect because we never see a case where the thing which produces an effect and the effect that's produced by that thing are never simultaneous. There's always a time progression. First the cause happens and then the result happens.

It's not that they could be simultaneous. ,GSOS PA NI, What's the third choice? This is the most interesting one to me.

Yeah. The causes and conditions for the cafe to open happen after the cafe opens. This is what we were hoping.

That's the one we've been praying for. Illogically. Okay, here we go.

,GAL TE TSOGS PA'I SNGA ROL DU, ,BRAS BU SKYE PAR RGYUR NA NI, ,RGYUR DANG KHYER NA MED PA NI, ,BRAS BU RGYU MED BYUNG BA RGYUR, ,GAL TE TSOGS PA'I SNGA ROL DU, If before the causes and conditions that finally came together, ,BRAS BU SKYE PAR RGYUR NA NI, If the cafe opened before the causes and conditions were ready, ,RGYUR DANG KHYER NA MED PA NI, ,BRAS BU RGYU MED BYUNG BA RGYUR, then a result would have happened without a cause. If the cafe could open before we got all the money and the food and all that, then you'd have a result that didn't have a cause, which is what we are hoping for. Now, he goes to the Abhidharma school.

And I thought it would be fun for you guys to go there. He goes to the Abhidharma school. I thought it would be fun for us to go there.

So here we go. ,CHE DAG MA BA NA'I, ,BRAS BU RNAMS RGYU KHYEN SOGS PA'I SNGA ROL GYI, ,MA'O BA'I DUS NA, ,DUS SU GNAS PA YANG YIN NA, ,RGYU KHYEN SOGS PA'I NI, ,THA LTA BA'I GNAS KA SKYE GYI MDZAD NI, ,SNGA PHYIR YANG GNAS SOGS SHIN NA, They have a special idea. And I believe it's a reflection of a Sankhya idea.

,BRAS BU RNAMS RGYU KHYEN SOGS PA'I SNGA ROL GYI, The result of causes and conditions coming together could, I got to think about this.

[Speaker 2]
Saying that the causes and conditions for the opening of the cafe have come together is positive on the opening of the cafe.

[Speaker 1]
Therefore, the opening of the cafe did happen before the causes and conditions of the opening of the cafe happened. Okay? It exists as a future certainty or something like that, which is a big discussion in Buddhism.

If the causes end together, if all the necessary causes and conditions are present, could you even prevent the opening of the cafe? Is it possible to prevent the opening of the cafe? And we'd say no.

Okay, which causes and conditions you're saying? Oh, the causes and conditions for the opening of the cafe. Oh, are they causes and conditions of the opening of the cafe?

Yes. So the cafe must be open while the causes and conditions are there because they are causes and conditions for the opening of the cafe. The opening of the cafe owns those causes and conditions.

Therefore, the causes and conditions have to happen after the opening of the cafe. Because you can't call them causes and conditions for the opening of the cafe unless there isn't one. And this is true.

And this goes back to an ancient point made in the first ACI course with the spear analogy. When soldiers get home from fighting all day in battle, they sit down for their meal after they put their spears, stack them together in a tripod like This is the ancient example. They come home from a hard day of fighting.

They're going to sit down to have some pizza. And they stack their spears. They have their spears point up, resting on each other like a tripod.

And that's because if the enemy suddenly shows up for pizza, they can grab their spear quickly and start poking people. And the analogy in Pabongka Rinpoche's commentary to the Three Principal Paths, which I'm sure you remember from ACI course one, is that it's true that results depend upon causes, but causes equally depend on results because they cannot be called causes until the result has come out. You can't call the investment money of the opening of the cafe the investment money for the opening of the cafe.

It cannot be called a cause for the opening of the cafe until the cafe opens. Then you can say it's a cause because otherwise there's no opening of the cafe to have the cause. Okay, got it?

It can't be a cause for the opening of the cafe until there is an opening of the cafe. Only when the cafe opens and there's a result can you say it had a cause. Before the cafe opens, it's just a thing that's going on.

It doesn't have a second half. Once the second half is complete, the result, then the money, the food, all Rosa's effort, they all can be called causes. But only after the result comes out.

So they're kind of going there. Who? The Abhidharmas.

RGYUD KHYEN SOGS PA NI LTA LTA BA'I GNAS KHYAD GYIS ZAD NI SNGA PHYIR YANG NAS SO So in that sense, the opening of the cafe did exist during the convening of its causes and conditions. Otherwise, you couldn't have called them conditions for the opening. There must have been some kind of opening of cafe around for these things to be called the causes and conditions for the opening of the cafe.

Then we say, DE NYID MI RIGS TE Hey, that's dumb. John Brady's the only one who was doubting it. Now, you're correct.

That's not right. GAL TE RGYUD KHYEN GYI RTZAL PA'I SNGA LAS TU BRAL BU SKYES PA DE GRUB PA RGYUR NA NI If the result of the cafe opening were somehow to be present before the causes and conditions were finally brought together, BRAL BU DE RGYUD NA SKYES RNAMS LA RTOG PA MED PAR RGYUR that result would no longer rely upon those causes and conditions for its existence. If the cafe opening existed during the time of the causes and conditions, then we would have to say that the opening of the cafe was not contingent upon those causes and conditions because it was even there before they came together.

If they are simultaneous, there's no dependence. DE LTAR NA YID BDE BU RGYUR MED PAR BYUNG BAR CAN DU BYUNG BAR GZHIGS KYI RGYUD PA'I PHYIR And in that case, you could have an opening of a cafe before you had the causes and conditions. And then, where's the causation there?

Hang in there. Don't just say, oh, this is stupid. I'll go on to Lam Rim.

Don't think like that. Struggle with it. What's the worst that can happen?

We covered it today. You get born into a world where there's no Buddhism, but you're the only one who figures everything out. That's the worst that can happen.

All right. NYID PA LA NYID RGYUN DRAN NGO BO GCIG PA'I PHYOG RGAGS PA DANG NGO BO THA DE PA'I PHYOG RGAGS PA Are the cause, is a cause and its result one thing, or is a cause and its result separate? This is an old...

You're all like, ah, that's Utpala's book. We already know the answer to that, but I don't remember. Okay.

Is it true that to be the cause is to be the result, or is it the case that to be the cause is to be different from the result? That's the question. And we're going to cover the first possibility.

Is it true that to be the cause is to be the result? Here's the verse. GAL TE RGYU RGAGS BRDRAD BU NA RGYUN NI KUN DU PHOR YOD MUN SKAD PA'I RGYU YANG NI YANG SKAD BA NI MTHONG BA YIN NO GAL TE RGYU RGAGS NAS BRDRAD BU DANG NYID DU GNAS PA YIN NO This is an interesting concept, and it's called PO'A.

And here's another meaning of the word PO'A, but it's similar, you can tell. Someone comes up and says, how do you say it? The cause transforms into the result.

Okay, you don't have to talk about the cause starting, stopping, then the result either starting or stopping, or somehow they overlap. You don't have to talk like that. The cause transforms into the result, which is a reasonable way to say it.

So in the Garjuna literature, it's called PO'A. PO'A usually refers to what for us? Yeah, you change lifetimes.

You change rebirth. You move from one rebirth to another. And here, he's talking about the identity of the cause shifting into an identity as a result, but it's the same thing.

It's one person who used to be Bob and changed to John, but it's the same person. The result is the cause in different clothes. The result, the cause changed its pants, and that's called result.

But it's still the cause. He just changed his pants. Okay, all right.

And you know, that's an interesting idea. Let's see what Nagarjuna says. Are we okay on time?

Time, 10, 10, 10 time? Five more minutes. Okay, let's see how much we can do.

DE NI MI DE DE, I don't like that. GAL TE RGYU DANG SNGAGS NAS, RJES BU DAG NYID DU PHO BA So are you saying that the cause stops and then transforms into the result? Is that what you're saying?

The cause comes to an end and then it slips into result and kind of changes? Is that what you're saying when you say PHO BA? Is that what you mean when you say moves, okay, transfers, transitions into result?

Is that what you're saying? And the guy says, yeah, and then he says, well, it sounds DGOS GAR GYEN, CHA LUG GZHAN DANG GZHAN DU RGYUR Can you put that up on the screen? It's kind of cute.

Second, yeah, DGOS GAR GYEN, CHA LUG GZHAN DANG GZHAN DU RGYUR It's a beautiful example. DGOS GAR means the ancient Sanskrit and Tibetan dramas which were acted out on a small stage like the Greek comedies or the Greek dramas. DGOS GAR means, it means a stage play like the classical Greek tragedies and things like that.

It's called DGOS GAR. DGOS GAR GYEN means an actor in one of those plays. So let's take an actor in one of those plays.

CHA LUG GZHAN DANG GZHAN DU RGYUR BAR DAR So you're saying when a cause produces a result, it's like the actor was playing one character in the first act and then he ran backstage and changed clothes and came out in the second act and played a different character. It's a beautiful example because it kind of is the, that's the picture we had when he described Poha, right? That the cause put on different pants and became the result.

It's the same idea. The same thing essentially put on a different outfit and came out as a different actor, but it's the same guy. The cause and the result are the same guy in different costumes during different acts, I would say.

Is that what you're saying? GZHAN DU RGYUR BAR DAR RGYUN NYID DU KUN DU PHO BA TZAM DU RGYUR GYIS So you're saying causes just kind of change their outer appearance and become results, right? RGYUD PA'I SNGAR MED SAR DU MI KHYER BAR GYUR BA'I PHYIR TE So are you saying a new result has come out or not?

DE LTAR NA RGYUD DE LTAR PA RGYUR BA'I That's an interesting idea. If the result is the power of the cause dressed up in different clothes, then the cause hasn't really changed in its essence. It's just put on new clothes.

And in that case, what was there at three o'clock is still there at three oh one. And in that case, it's LTAR PA. What does that mean?

It's unchanging. It's an unchanging, functioning thing, which is a four-letter word. What about the word fixed?

Fixed? Fixed. Yeah, you can say fixed.

But in classical Buddhism, it's almost like saying a dirty word when you say this thing does something, but by doing something, it doesn't change. That's totally illegal in all of Buddhism. So if you're going to say the cause is the result in different clothes, then what you're talking about is cause and effect where nothing changes, which is impossible.

It's totally against all Buddhism. All right, we're going to stop there because everyone has a headache. Oh, one more line.

The other option is that the cause that changes the clothes and becomes the soul would just keep changing its clothes, and then it would be an infinite regression. So that's called THUGS MED PA. THUGS MED PA is an idea in Buddhism that the same thing would just, there's no reason why it shouldn't just keep happening over and over again, endlessly.

So, I don't know. A peach tree seed creates a peach tree, and then it creates another peach tree, and it creates another peach tree, because it's all the same seed in different clothing. Okay, where are we now?

Eh, yeah, okay. Next up in the next class, it's a very interesting extended discussion of seven different possibilities of how a cause gets ready to trigger a result. So we're going to get seven different ideas about how a cause warms up to produce a result.

And there's very interesting discussion of all the possible variations on how does a cause warm up to produce a result. And what does that look like? We're going to discuss seven different possibilities.

They're all impossible. All seven possibilities are impossible. And we'll go to that next.

Just to set you up for, oh, let me make a mark here. That was, I literally stopped. I want to give you some hope.

That's going to lead us on to chapter 24. Okay, so we'll be ready to discuss another topic after that. So hang in there.

We'll talk about seven different ways in which a cause warms up to produce a result. And then we'll get freed from this chapter and we'll go to another chapter. Very quickly.

[Speaker 2]
All right, okay. See you in the next class.