Дебаты дьявола с ангелом, часть 12: Диалог о медитации и природе ума (2018, Аризона), занятие 2

[Speaker 2]
So, yesterday we had the ... the angel was telling us how great it is to do Mahamudra meditation, which is the subject of this text, and this is the most famous Mahamudra text.

[Speaker 1]
Sometimes it's called the root Mahamudra text, and so, the angel was advertising it and said, oh, if you do this Mahamudra then sooner or later you'll see emptiness, and you will get a Buddha body, but that Buddha body ... never think that that Buddha body is not coming from you okay? So, never think that Buddha body is just some outside thing, it's also flowing from your seeds okay?

[Speaker 2]
And to think otherwise is a huge obstacle, you see what I mean? To getting it. So, if you think there's some kind of Buddhahood that you're gonna achieve, which is not flowing from your own seeds in your own mind like a pen, then that's the largest obstacle you can have.

[Speaker 1]
And then on those words, the devil makes his appearance in the mind, and ...

[Speaker 2]
and says well, that means you would have to kick me out of your mind forever, and then he starts explaining why you shouldn't do that okay? And then he ... she said ...

he said by the way, I ... I'm here because of dependent origination okay? So, to deny me would be to deny the foundation of Buddhism, which is cause and effect.

[Speaker 1]
So, to kick me out of the mind since I come from cause and effect would be a big mistake, and ... but I do admit that the idea that I'm ... I'm cause and effect, and you are the opposite, which is saying nothing exists ultimately, I do admit for that reason one of us would have to leave the mind okay?

You're supposed to say no. Yeah, it's a wrong argument okay? He's already showing his colors, you see?

His ... his first argument is mistaken, I'll say it again. I came into your mind from cause and effect, you want to kick out everything that doesn't exist ultimately, one of us has to go.

Not true, the opposite is true okay? Things work because they don't have any nature of their own, things work because they are coming from us, not because they come from their own side you see? So, it's ...

it's cool to say you know, don't think things don't work, and things do come from cause and effect okay? I've been in the Garjuna for the last few months, so it's easy for me.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, here we go ...

[Speaker 1]
then the angel says something, you know the devil is being clever, which is what they do, and she responds in an equally clever way, and she says you claim to be cause and effect, but I don't believe cause and effect. Who's talking? The angel okay?

The angel says I don't believe cause and effect, so you must leave okay? He says I got here through cause and effect, you have to respect me, she says you're not cause and effect even normally okay? You are not a cause and effect which is coming from my mind, which is completely false okay?

Her argument is completely false okay? There is a cause and effect, and it's coming from your mind okay? And she says no, you're not cause and effect even though you're coming from my mind okay?

And then we're kind of left ... what's she talking about you know? Did she have some tequila last night?

You know, like ... it's confusing you see? Then ...

then that's where we're gonna pick up. By the way, I thought this morning, I cleaned up my notes and I thought to send them to you tomorrow okay?

[Speaker 2]
Anybody who wants, talk to Tim, and I kind of wrote it out as a flow, because the poetry is difficult, so I'll give you the poetry, you'll get the poetry, but I think you need some kind of commentary. I don't think this text should be published as just the poetry, because unless you're very familiar with Buddhism it's ... it doesn't make much sense, you would get confused okay?

Alright, then she says ... so I'm ... just as a note, I'm on verse 30, and don't look at your text okay?

Because you'll ... no, you can't do both okay?

[Speaker 1]
Look at it when you get home right? Big chance of that ...

[Speaker 2]
there you go.

[Speaker 1]
Then she says there's a problem with your version of cause and effect okay? Because your version ... in your version of cause and effect, when a cause makes a result, it does through ...

through some nature of its own, which is to say, fire is hot from its own side okay? It's the nature of

[Speaker 2]
fire that it should be hot, and it's the nature of causes that they have a power inside of them to do something, and at this point in DCI, I would teach what we call the aspirin you know, we would have a long discussion about why aspirins

[Speaker 1]
work sometimes, and they don't work sometimes, so Connie can tell you what's the active ingredient in an aspirin, COX-2 inhibitor okay, it took me like three months to learn this word, COX-2 inhibitor is the active ingredient in an aspirin, and ...

[Speaker 2]
and when we teach DCI we don't say cause and effect exists, self we don't go there, we just say, we just ask the audience, is the COX-2 inhibitor the active ingredient in an aspirin?

[Speaker 1]
And people will say yeah, it says that on the bottle, then we'll say is it active? No, it's not, sometimes it doesn't work okay? It says active ingredient, but it's a lie okay?

It's not active, because it's only active sometimes okay? Then people say, well Geshe-la that's the way aspirin are, why do you expect an aspirin to work every time? Well, then go buy a car that works three days a week you know, I mean you'll take it back right?

But an aspirin nobody takes it back, nobody goes back to ... what's it called? Walgreens?

What's the other one? CVS, and say I want half the money back, half of them worked and half of them didn't work, you see? People always ...

because your mom taught you okay, sorry ladies, taught you not to expect that the aspirin would work every time you know, you asked your mom, mom the aspirin didn't take away ... I can remember where I was, V, in the hallway outside my little brother's room, she put me in his room because I was sick, and I remember asking my mom, you know the aspirin didn't work, maybe I should take some more, and she gave me another one, and then she gave me ... what do you call it?

A cloth on my head? She said try this you know, I said well just give me another aspirin, she says ... then she said a deadly thing to me, she said what?

Sometimes they don't work, don't expect them to work all the time, and then at that moment your mother had the devil in her mind okay, like it was the devil talking you know, don't expect things to work every time you know, that's not how life works, and because of mother saying that, the whole world is satisfied with things that don't work every time, and we think it's unreasonable to expect things to work every time.

So, the problem here with the devil, when he says I come from cause and effect, and she says you don't, she means you ... you don't come from causes that work from their own side, you see? Got it?

Okay, he has already kind of agreed to the pen, he's already agreed that individual items come from me, but he didn't get the step two okay, which is that the interaction between things is also coming from you, which means an aspirin may not work all the time okay, there's no thing in cause and effect which is inside the cause that makes it do something okay?

[Speaker 2]
So, it's a second level of emptiness understanding, you start with static objects, by the way I took home somebody's pen last night, and I felt guilty, I don't want to not have pens the rest of my life okay, thank you.

[Speaker 1]
Once you get to understanding that individual objects are coming from your seeds, then the second stage of understanding is that the interaction between those objects is also coming from your seeds okay?

[Speaker 2]
So, where he's at, he's kind of saying okay, I understand the pen, but you know, when something causes something else, when you take an aspirin and your headache goes away, that comes from the aspirin, got it?

[Speaker 1]
Okay? That's ... and that's where they're stuck, and that's why she can say with impunity, you are cause and effect, but not really okay?

You got that right, but you're still wrong okay? Because he feels like the cause has something in it that makes the result happen, and then you can go studying the Gajanet for the rest of your life, and he ...

[Speaker 2]
he spent his whole life explaining why causes don't cause results okay?

[Speaker 1]
Alright, verse 31, your version of cause and effect could never change okay? Headache ...

[Speaker 2]
you know, aspirin would always stop headaches, and no one would get headaches, and things would never change. Verse 32, it would be immutable, self-standing, never stopping okay? If things worked from something inside them, then things would never change okay?

[Speaker 1]
Then she says, if you are living ... who's you? If you the devil are living in my head, in a network of cause and effect, of the kind of cause and effect you describe, you couldn't be here anyway, got it?

Okay? He's talking about how he got into her head, into our head okay? And he says, cause causes make things happen, of their own accord, they have something in them that makes things happen okay?

Fire is hot, in and of itself okay? He says that, aspirin to work because of the active ingredient, not because you helped other people with headaches in the past okay? Aspirin to work, by the way, that's what makes the active ingredient ...

active when it's active okay? Are active ingredients ever active? Yeah, sometimes, but only if you've been helping other people with headaches, that's all, got it?

So, she says, if the ... if the aspirin had something in it that took headaches away, then you couldn't be in people's head okay? If causes had a power inside of them, that wasn't coming from us, then you wouldn't be here okay?

Got it?

[Speaker 2]
Nick knows what to do, he just nods, you know, it helps if there's a lot of flies ... okay, alright ... huh?

[Speaker 1]
Oh, it just means he got into our heads to cause and effect that didn't have its own power, you see? How did ... how did the devil get into your head?

Because he was there last lifetime okay? Well, how did he get into your head then? Because he was there the last ...

because you kept misunderstanding aspirins okay? Got it? You kept doing it, so he's been in your head, but ...

that causes you planted to keep the devil in your head don't have a power in them, that's also coming from you okay? So, she says, you know, if my goal is to get you out of my head, you just helped me, why? Because he claims to be cause and effect, but he claims to be cause and effect where there's a cause with some power in the cause okay?

And if that's true, he couldn't be there, and he he would kick himself out, okay? Alright? You gotta follow here okay?

Verse 35, she quotes Dharmakirti, guess the book?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, Pramanavarttika, the Commentary on Accurate Perception okay? And she quotes that to say that, you know, if things are cause and effect, they cannot be self-existent okay? So, this is a case where they're defining self-existent, which is the big enemy in Buddhism, as ...

as anything which is not cause and effect, where two things don't rely on each other, where an aspirin has its own power inside, and it doesn't come from your efforts to be a good person, okay?

[Speaker 1]
Got it? Okay, then she quotes Shantideva, verse 36, GAG MED NGUL LA MA RIG PAR, DE'I NGUL MED RDZIN MA YIN, very famous, ACI class 10 or 12? 12.

GAG? Yeah, good, you cannot understand emptiness if you don't understand what's not there okay?

[Speaker 2]
You can never understand ...

[Speaker 1]
Shantideva says don't go trying to understand emptiness unless you can picture in your mind what a thing would be if it existed from its own side okay? What's an example that's in a bottle that you buy at the drugstore? An aspirin that works because of something inside the aspirin okay?

An aspirin that works because of something inside the aspirin is called in Buddhism, GAG BYA, GAG BYA means when you say emptiness it has to be something not there okay?

[Speaker 2]
The classic example is Geshe Michael in a fit of generosity takes John Brady to Kuchina restaurant and offers to pay, and then reaches into his ...

[Speaker 1]
this is a DCI example right? By the way, DCI means can you present Buddhism without a single Buddhist word okay? And I think in the last few months the audiences have been three or four thousand Muslims okay?

Who you can't say ... you can't say this is Buddhist you see? And so, what's the example of GAG BYA in DCI?

It's a ... credit card okay? I tell John Brady in a fit of generosity, which I often do right?

Don't worry, like Phil right? When was it? Two days ago, we like ...

he paid my bill and I paid his bill, and the waitress I think she took both of them, anyway ...

[Speaker 2]
so, I offer John I'll pay for the bill, let's go to Kuchina you know? And then when we get there, I'm ...

[Speaker 1]
there's a moment of emptiness okay? Emptiness means you expect something to be there, but it's not there, that's the classic feeling you should have when you have emptiness okay?

[Speaker 2]
I ... the bill comes, I tell ...

[Speaker 1]
you know I make a big deal out of it, I always say give me the bill, because I want to impress everybody around at other tables you know, and the lady gives me the bill and I go ... and then, when you go like that and your hand hits the bottom of the pocket you know, that's how emptiness should feel to you okay? Something's not there that you thought was there okay?

Cool? Now Nick's going to tell me how you go deeper in that analogy. Yeah, the credit card that I don't find in my pocket is a Discover card that doesn't work anyway okay?

Because emptiness is always the absence of something that didn't exist anyway okay? Got it? Something you expected to be there, but wasn't there anyway, an aspirin which?

Beautiful, an aspirin that has something inside it that takes away your heading okay? Doesn't exist okay? It's not there, you go looking, you don't find it okay?

[Speaker 2]
Alright, so that's the Shantideva verse 36. Verse 37, she quotes a commentary to Aryadeva's 400 verses, he's a number one disciple of Nagarjuna okay?

[Speaker 1]
2,000 years ago, and it's a commentary to the 400 verses of Aryadeva by ... it happens to be by Chandrakirti okay? Who wrote the most famous book on emptiness, and he says the meaning of self-existent is that it doesn't depend on something else.

Tell me what that means with an aspirin? Yeah, great, oh I could kiss you but you're too far away and Veronica's here.

[Speaker 2]
Scott told me it's illegal to say that kind of stuff nowadays, okay, cancel that.

[Speaker 1]
I forgot what I was going to say. Yeah, if the aspirin didn't depend on something else, which means, if it didn't depend on me helping someone else with a headache okay, it doesn't mean ...

[Speaker 2]
it doesn't depend on its chemicals, that's not what we mean, we mean ... that's what the devil thought right? We're talking about an aspirin that would work without me helping other people with headaches okay?

And that's a self-existent.

[Speaker 1]
So, here at verse 37 is an important clarification of what it means when you say self-existent, and it means it doesn't depend on anything else, but it doesn't mean depend on chemicals, it means depend on you doing something nice for somebody else, you see? Anything opposite of that is self-existent, and that's what emptiness is empty of, got it? Cool?

Alright, therefore okay, since you devil are advocating a cause and effect where the causes have a power of their own, you and me are incompatible okay? That's a big theme in this text okay? It's like, there's some married couple that can't stay together anymore, they just can't live in the same house, they keep fighting okay?

Their fundamental viewpoint of reality is totally opposite, somebody has to go, somebody has to leave. She says, even your ... even when you talk about cause and effect you're messed up okay?

Even when you talk about ... you blah blah about cause and effect, but you don't even understand what is the cause, you think causes have something inside them, which is by the way, why did he put that in the text? Because all Buddhists who talk about cause and effect have the same wrong idea okay?

Step two wrong idea, oh, cause and effect comes from causes that have something inside them, wrong, okay got it? Just nod, alright. Now, then the devil comes back with something so cute okay?

39 ...

[Speaker 2]
verse 39 is he comes back okay? So, it's a separate line, so I treat it as a verse okay?

[Speaker 1]
The devil comes back, the devil gets to say his piece right? GZHAN LUG, TSUL PA PO'ANG right? He gets to come back and make his defense okay, and he says, listen, I've lived in your heart forever, you're supposed to be a nice person, have mercy, let me stay okay?

He's appealing to her compassion, he said look, I've been here in your heart, in this heart, in this Nick's heart you know, or anybody, I've been in their heart my whole life, lifetime after lifetime, have mercy, let me stay, and the first Panchen Lama says ...

[Speaker 2]
okay, he says never have that kind of mercy okay? There's a limit to mercy, there's a limit to compassion okay?

[Speaker 1]
Be ruthless, be merciless, be a terrorist against your devil in your mind okay? No quarter, what do you call it? Fight to the death okay?

One of us has to go, so forget compassion when you're dealing with your misunderstanding okay? Forget any idea that it would be something nice to give him some slack okay? Don't, don't let him say anything okay?

Like, V says I interrupt people too much, not too much, it's constant, they never get to say anything, then be that way with the devil okay? If he starts to say buh, buh, buh, buh, then say ah, you know, shut up you know, don't let him talk in your head. What I would hope you get out of these three days, and why we're doing the meditation that Tim did, and why we're doing the workshop that you're going to do after this while I go relax and buy my Thanksgiving dinner stuff, is that I want you to crank up your sheshin, your monitoring of your own mind, I want you to ...

Mahamudra meditation system number one, you learn to listen to your own thoughts okay? Because right now you are in them, and you are not listening to them, you got to get some distance from your own mind, you have to practice listening to the internal discussion, that's the first step of Mahamudra. Mahamudra means, get practice at listening to your mind, stop being inside the conversation, step away from the conversation, and observe the conversation, that's step number one.

Step number two, do not show any mercy towards thoughts of self-existence okay? This didn't come from me, if a single thought comes in your ... in the mental conversation you're observing all day right?

If a single thought comes up that says I don't like this person, they hurt me, then take the sword of wisdom and cut his head off, don't even let him go on, okay? Oh, no, but he hurt me you know, he said this and blah blah blah you know, okay? So, in the text, this is a meditation text right?

We're not supposed to let a self-existent thought come into our mind during the half hour that you're meditating, but why did he make it an internal conversation? He wants us to do that meditation all day, all day okay? He's like saying, because of the title, because of the format, he's saying look, I'm not just talking during meditation that you have to watch your tendency to believe that things are not coming from you, no, I want you thinking about it all day, I want the watcher mind tuned up, a Buddha should be super, what do you call it?

[Speaker 2]
Self-conscious, you see?

[Speaker 1]
They should be almost dysfunctional, which is true, they should be, oh Geshe-la I'm thinking this, is that okay? No, oh okay, but now I'm thinking that, no, don't do that, then you can get a little frozen right? It can paralyze you, we all know Buddhists, the best Buddhists are paralyzed, the other ones are, oh what the heck, I'm just gonna think these thoughts okay?

So, he wants you to tune up your awareness of the conversation in your head, and be merciless when the mental conversation goes to, I don't like this person, I will have to talk to them, I will have to you know, write a letter, I'll have to do something to stop this person you know, outside, I'll have to take some outer means, when you hear the devil talk like that during the day, if you're a Mahamudra master, you're like shut up, you know, okay got it? Mercilessly, don't let him even get to a sentence, be like Geshe Michael interrupting everybody okay? Don't let him get to a whole sentence, he's like, yeah but this person is ...

yeah shut up, you know, he's coming from you, yeah but ... shut up, yeah ... shut up okay?

And that's meditation, that's Mahamudra meditation, that's the goal, getting paralyzed by your Mahamudra meditation is the goal of these three days, until you become so dysfunctional that you think you're going insane. There's a very famous thing with anger meditation, where Shantideva teaches you how not to get angry, and then the student comes back and says, it didn't work, in fact it made me worse, I'm worse than I was last week, after I came to your three-day teaching, my mind got worse than it was before, what does Shantideva answer? You were just noticing what was always there, for the first time you're aware of how your own mind is talking, which is stupid okay?

Your mind is like, yeah but Geshe-la this person didn't let me ... shut up okay? I had a t-shirt, I designed a new t-shirt, it said, Scott gave me one, it says shut up and do the four steps, I used to have a tape recorder in my pocket, and people demand five minutes with me to discuss their unique personal problem right?

And ... I was thinking to have a tape recorder that just says, oh yes, there's a way to fix that, try the four steps, you know, and I ... I've repeated the four steps, people pay ...

how much Scott? $1,750 an hour at those special VIP events? Diamond group?

Depends on what country, they pay almost $2,000 an hour to have me tell them the four steps again, ten minutes after they came out of the public talk, you see what I mean? Okay, so just tell them to shut up okay? But, you can't do that unless you're aware of the conversation in your own mind okay?

[Speaker 2]
So, the goal of these three days is that you become more sensitive to the insane conversation going on in your own mind, oh this person hurt me, or this person's not good, or the way to fix this problem is to talk to somebody okay? Right?

[Speaker 1]
Okay. Alright, so verse 40, the devil's like have mercy, you're a compassionate person, let me stay in this person's heart okay? Don't kick me out alright?

Then 41, beautiful, he says and in fact, you kick me out of this guy's heart, he's gonna have a hard time getting the things he needs in his life okay? He won't get money, he won't get cars, he won't get position, he won't get houses okay? Without me to protect this guy, he won't be able to get anything, he'll be giving away everything you know?

He'll be sharing his money with everybody, he'll be letting people sleep in his house you know? He'll be giving other people the salary that he was supposed to get, you see what I mean? We can't ...

without me this guy's gonna have a hard life okay? Right? That's his ...

also, verse 42, this guy won't be able to find friends, you know? It's me that helps you find friends you see? You ignore other people, you go get friends, you see what I mean?

You have to ... without me as a motivation, you will not go to nightclubs, you will not go online to look for friends okay? You would just sit at home and hope a friend came to you.

I had a lady in New York, she said I want to have a partner you know? So, I said look, you don't get a partner by going online, you don't get a partner by going to a nightclub, you get a partner by helping a lonely person you know? She said why?

I said they're coming from you, you know?

[Speaker 2]
And we had a long conversation, I remember it was shortly after I came to the place in Maryland, I remember, it was like a day later, this is like 20 years ago or something, and so she's like, I got to talk about this you know, I got to ...

[Speaker 1]
I got to stretch this thing out, and finally at the end of the conversation she's like, so you're telling me that if I help lonely people I will plant a karmic seed in my mind that a partner will manifest from my mind, a real partner you know? Like kissable partner you know? Marriable partner, and I said yes.

She said if that's true, then if I lock myself in my New York apartment for two weeks after planting those seeds, the guy should show up in my apartment you know? With the door locked, I'm yes, I'm like, I took a chance you know? I said yeah, that's true, she says I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna try it you know?

So, she did, she went to her apartment, she locked the door okay? This is true, unbelievable, some guy knock on the door, FedEx guy okay? She fell in love with him, they got married, okay?

I'm not kidding, okay anyway, it's true, I don't care if you don't believe me. Now, so, the devil is like, without me to chase people on the line, without me to motivate you to go to nightclubs, you're gonna be friendless, you're gonna be lonely okay? If you follow this stupid angel that says partners come from karmic seeds, you're gonna spend your whole life in your house waiting for someone to show up, right?

That's his position okay? This lady's gonna paralyze you, you got to get out there and do it, you know, you need strategies for relationships you know, okay? Forget this seed stuff, seed stuff's okay, for certain things at certain times, but don't go crazy with it, there's times when you should just go do it you know, right?

That's his main thing, that's his main thing okay? Yeah okay, use the ... plant seeds once in a while for big stuff, but don't get anal about it you know, like don't think all day you know, I got to plant seeds to get breakfast you know, I better make a donation to charity tonight, I got to have waffles in the morning okay?

Like, don't go crazy about it, be reasonable okay? Who's that? The devil wants you to be reasonable, and the devil objects if you use these ideas every moment of the day okay?

And that's the purpose of this text, it becomes a meditation, because you're following your thoughts constantly, moment to moment okay? It's not an occasional once every week you do a four steps okay? She's proposing that you do it every few minutes okay?

And I've taught people like that, Noor is like that, I had a discussion with Noor in the Bucharest Airport with all these Romanian guys, and she's like Geshe-la, I said how's it going? Geshe-la I got this, I'm like yeah okay, and then I did the four steps, I got this you know, and she's like yeah I'm like, well that's nice you know, and then she's like, but then I used the four steps on the four steps and I got this you know, and it was just like, after a while I'm like, is there anything you don't do with the four steps? Like, do you go to the bathroom without the four steps?

[Speaker 2]
She's like, well I haven't tried that one, but oftentimes you teach someone and they're more conscious of it than you are, she's an example, and her life is amazing, her life is like a dream you know, it makes me want to try it. Okay, alright verse 43, devil says to the angel, I think it's a big mistake to think you're gonna switch me out for somebody else you know, I don't think it's reasonable okay, I think

[Speaker 1]
you should just keep me here, because you can't get friends, you can't get stuff without someone taking care of your self-interest, don't spend all your time taking care of other people, there has to be times when you take care of yourself okay, and that's who? That's a devil talking okay, alright. Mmm ...

[Speaker 2]
verse 44, by the way, we're warming up, we're starting to segue to the actual Mahamudra meditations okay, you can feel it coming, because next he says,

[Speaker 1]
listen, many people have tried to kick me out of their mind in the past, and they all fail okay, and even this person whose mind I'm in right now, they have made feeble, uneducated attempts to kick me out, and it never worked, so just forget it, what you're trying to do today has been done before, countless times this person met a spiritual teacher, this person learned about things coming from them, they tried to kick me out, and here I am 10,000 lifetimes later, I'm still here okay, so it's kind of foolish to kick me out, over the course of countless lifetimes I have given my blessing, I have imparted my demonic blessing to this mind, and it's gonna be this way forever okay, because my blessing stays, got it? Kind of depressing okay, and then she's like ... she's like somebody trying to talk to Geshe Michael, she's like ...

[Speaker 2]
and he runs over her, you know he says, even bodhisattvas have me okay, and that's true right, even a bodhisattva has a devil in their mind okay, they got the first big shot in when they reached the first bodhisattva level, and saw emptiness directly, they took a shot, and they damaged him, but he's still there, he says listen, if you know anything about Buddhism ...

[Speaker 1]
who's talking? The devil's talking Angel! If you know anything about Buddhism, I stay in the people's mind actively up to the seventh bodhisattva level, and you cannot find a person in this country, more than a handful, who've reached the first bodhisattva level, so what are the odds of getting rid of me?

Okay, you carry me up to the seventh bodhisattva level okay, you carry me up to there, there's no chance okay, up to the seventh bodhisattva level, you do have the seeds to see things as coming from their own side okay, even when you're explaining the pen to another person, and explaining why it doesn't come from its own side, at that moment, because of the blessing of the devil, they are still seeing the pen as coming from the pen, while you're explaining the pen for the 400th time to a person, they are still seeing that pen as coming from its own side okay, until the ... until you get through the seventh bodhisattva level okay, it's like hopeless okay, so he's like, what are the odds you're gonna kick me out you know?

[Speaker 2]
Even high bodhisattvas have me, but bodhisattvas that haven't walked on this planet for centuries you know, still have me okay. Alright, number

[Speaker 1]
46, and by the way, the stain okay, the subtle imprint to believe that things

[Speaker 2]
are coming from their own side lasts until the tenth bodhisattva level okay,

[Speaker 1]
until the final moment before enlightenment, you still have a subtle imprint, it's called NEN GNAN LIM PA, you still have a subtle imprint in your mind where you could flip back okay, you still have that tendency carved on your mind okay, so verse number 46 you know, people at the tenth bodhisattva level have an imprint for me still in their mind, what hope will a non bodhisattva have? What hope would a normal person have of kicking me out of the mind?

Get serious, who's talking? The devil, and he's correct okay, which is depressing alright. Then he said, verse 47, Miss Wisdom, you only visit this mind occasionally, I have a permanent resident card okay, I'm a permanent resident, I've always been here okay, I have a green card for this mind okay, I get to stay here forever okay, got it?

You're just a visitor, you're on a 188 day visa okay, or 182nd visa, you have to leave after those three minutes, you see what I mean? Okay, alright, and not only that, verse 48, once I get into a mind, I bring my extended family okay, it's like that green card, one person gets in, what's it called? Chain ...

yeah, what we have going on in this mind is chain migration you see, where once I get in and I get my green card, then all my friends come in, and it's just like a big party in this mind you know, and then he makes a list of his friends okay, ready? Here we go ... I bring in jealousy, I bring in refusal to share your things with other people, I bring in deceitful behavior, I bring in pretending to be someone you're not, I bring in pride, I bring in 65 versions of mistaken viewpoints about reality, I have an extended family you know, once I'm in the house, you know, you gonna kick all of us out?

I mean, me's okay, I mean maybe you could ... maybe if you meditated really hard every morning, you could kick me out, maybe if you educated yourself with this poem, and then you worked hard on it every morning, maybe you ... and worked hard on it all day, that you don't have self-existent thoughts, oh I'm gonna take care ...

I'm gonna make ... I'm gonna get this goal by working hard, or I'm gonna connect with someone who could help me okay, those are ... who talking?

Devil, that's devil talking okay, I'm gonna ... I want to get a certain financial goal, you know, I would like to put this much money in the bank okay, well how are you gonna do it? Then the devil starts talking, I should take more of my money and put it in the bank, devil talking, I should invest my money in Bitcoin or whatever, devil talking, I should work harder, devil talking, you know, I shouldn't give away so much money, devil devil talking okay, alright?

And my dream from this class, what I would like you to get from this class, don't put up with this kind of thinking in your own mind even for five minutes, and that's gonna take a high degree of shishin, what's shishin? Watching your mind think okay, watching the conversation in your mind okay, your mind has a ongoing conversation for all the conscious hours of your life okay, but you're inside it, you don't have to be inside it, step back, watch the mind talk, and object when the mind says something stupid okay, interrupt, be Geshe Michael, someone's trying to tell you about their dying aunt and you're like, yeah but do you know how many people came to Ukraine? Okay, like interrupt the stupid mind, wait wait wait wait, everybody stop, we don't get money by saving money, we get money by sharing money okay, just step in and interrupt okay, got it?

That's the goal of this, this is not, these three days are not to be limited to meditation periods okay, that's a mistake okay, outside of meditation periods, high degree of shishin, awareness of what you're thinking, awareness of the conversation, step back and listen to how silly the conversation is okay, how incredibly un-Buddhist it is okay, in a well-trained Buddhist mind, because you haven't been watching your mind okay? Alright, verse 49, I'm the permanent confidant of this person, when they have problems they come to me to talk, they don't come to you, you're a flash in the pan, he calls her a flash in the pan, you're like a stroke of lightning you know, in the whole 24 hours you're like zut, and then you're gone you know, somebody can only think about you for about 30 seconds at a time, and then they come back to me for hour after hour, take care of yourself, take care of number one okay, got it? You're just like occasional generosity thought, maybe I should ...

yeah shut up, let's take care of ourselves okay. Okay, then he says, he accuses her okay ready? He says listen, I'm your little brother, we've been in the same mind for forever you know, I've been here with you, I'm just part of the family okay, I'm just part of this person's mind, I admit you could come once in a while, you can make your appearance for a day or two, and then go back home, but you know I've been here all along, I'm not really different from you, we are both residents, you're just temporary, I'm here all the time taking care of the house, you know, give me a little respect, don't paint me as a monster okay, he says that, don't paint me with horns okay, I'm not such a devil, I'm just another member of the family who's trying to make a living in the mind okay, so don't tell everybody I'm this monster okay, I'm just another guy trying to make it okay, it's very cute, he says don't force me away from the warmth of heart and home, hearth and home, don't force me away from the family fire, I also need warmth, I also need life, I'm also surviving in this mind, cut me some slack okay, I'm part of the family, then she says yeah, be merciless, be a warrior, take, what do you call it, no quarter, accept no quarter, give no quarter, yeah just, if he starts to say but, then before he gets to the T, cut him okay, like at least try, make some feeble effort okay, yeah but this guy gets like you don't understand, this guy is really nice, shut up, just shut up okay, yeah man, okay, at least make some, what do you call it, put up a fight okay, in a normal mind the devil will prevail okay, you get extra credit for putting up a fight longer, so fight for those 30 seconds okay, your mind is like I should take the last donate, yeah but, I should take the last donate, but what if we, I should take the last donate, okay let's take the last donate okay, but you get so much karmic credit for the but, but, but okay, it's a famous thing in Buddhist scripture okay, you get like a thousand times normal karmic seeds by resisting your bad habits okay, even if it's only for 10 seconds, so I always stand there

[Speaker 2]
with Veronica's pumpkin pie you know, I'm like ...

[Speaker 1]
I know I'm gonna eat it, but I'm just waiting you know, ching ching, ching ching, more good seeds, ching ching, chong, yeah okay, okay so, just, just hold off for a few seconds okay, and then those seeds accumulate, and then sooner or later you just set the pie down, you see what I mean? But, you got to resist your bad habits for the few minutes that you can, and then go ahead and indulge okay, in your bad habits okay. Alright, now verse 51, most sexy okay, ready?

I like this book, can you tell? He's like, look Miss Wisdom, let's get one thing straight, who are you to fight karma? You know, even Buddhas have to respect karma, when karma says something's gonna happen, it happens, not even a Buddha can take away your bad karma, that's a famous Buddhist principle okay, with all the compassion that's possible within a living mind, a Buddha cannot take away one iota of your karma, it's not possible to take away another person's karma, as you sow you shall reap, and no one can take it away. So, how did I get in this mind?

Karma! Who are you Miss Wisdom to try to do something no Buddha can do? Who are you to override karma?

Who the hell you think you are? You think you're bigger than a Buddha? Okay, how did I get in this mind?

Karma! By respecting the laws of karma, I arrived okay, this person refused to share what they learned with other people, because it was inconvenient for them, or those people were irritating okay, that's why I'm still here, they collected karma to keep me in their mind, who are you to say we should cancel karma today? Okay, not even a Buddha can do ...

who do you think you are? Okay, it's a beautiful line okay, he's like, who the hell you think you are? You think you're better than Gautama?

You gonna break karma when Gautama couldn't? I deserve to be here, I'm here because the person made the seeds to keep me here, that's just justice, that's universal justice, I'm here because of the universal laws of justice okay, this person whose mind we're sharing deserves me, who are you to cancel that? Okay, it's a beautiful argument right?

Who do you think you are? Alright, now our angel is not a stupid angel, our devil is clever but our angel is smart okay, and she says ... these arguments of yours are a guy riding on a donkey to find the donkey ...

Nick explain, do you know this story? It's loud. Wait, who's he?

Some farmer.

[Speaker 2]
Yes, some rancher.

[Speaker 1]
Come up here.

[Speaker 2]
There's a rancher who's riding on his horse and he has a certain amount of horses that he's supposed to count.

[Speaker 1]
He has 50 horses. 50 horses he's supposed to count each day, and he keeps counting the horses and he only gets 49, so he's riding around and he's counting and he rides around the range and he keeps counting and he comes up with 49 and he's scratching his head trying to figure out where's the last horse ... It's a famous Tibetan joke, Tibetan humor is really really strange okay, and they would be laughing, they'd be rolling in the aisles right now ...

okay anyway, you Mr. Devil are trying to explain to me the laws of karma that you accused me of breaking, but if we are to accept the laws of karma, then you have to leave, because the real devil doesn't understand the real laws of karma, if ...

[Speaker 2]
if you ever understood what you're talking about, it would result in your ...

[Speaker 1]
what's that thing when they kick people out of their apartment? Eviction, okay? Got it?

Devil, you better stop talking about karma, you better stop talking about cause and effect, because you are dangerously close to understanding it, which would result in your eviction, because you cannot stay in a mind which understands karma, got it? Stop talking about karma, stop lecturing me about karma, don't tell me I can't break karma that the Buddhists cannot break okay? Because if you keep going with this karma stuff, you're gonna evict yourself, got it?

I like it, alright, okay, and by the way, the only person that's really inherent in the human mind is a Buddha, you want to talk about permanent residence? There is a permanent resident in the mind of every living creature, and it is their enlightened nature okay? Don't talk to me, don't tell me you have a green card okay?

The ultimate green card, citizenship, is enlightened state of mind, all living beings have an inherent enlightened nature okay? Cool? I like it, she's so sexy, she's like, stop talking about green cards, okay maybe you got a green card, but Trump's gonna revoke all of them, you know?

You can't stay here, but listen, this person's Buddha nature was born in this country okay? When they were born, they had a Buddha nature, and they still have it, who wants to take a shot at explaining Buddha nature to everybody?

[Speaker 2]
Every ... okay, words gonna do it, come, come on, quick quick quick, we don't have much time, these are really short classes, I'm gonna make a statement, you're gonna explain it okay ready? Every living creature has 25% of their Buddhahood already, okay go.

Okay, because there's four bodies of the Buddha, or they say bodies, but it means like parts actually, and one of those parts is the emptiness of the Buddha, which is actually the emptiness of all the bodies of the Buddha, so inherent in all beings is their own lack of self-nature, which is their emptiness, which is one of the bodies of the Buddha. Yay! And that's the only person who's allowed to live in this mind by birth okay?

They're gonna stay, you're not gonna stay okay? And then verse 55 okay?

[Speaker 1]
She says, if I have my way then you're gonna be homeless okay? It's kind of cruel language okay? You okay?

Am I ...

[Speaker 2]
yeah, if I have my way you will be a homeless person shortly okay?

[Speaker 1]
You will have no place to live okay? And again, it's this theme of ... be merciless with those random thoughts that come in your mind about how you're gonna fix a problem with another person without fixing yourself okay?

Don't put up with them okay? Be strict with them. Later he's gonna say, when you're a halt right?

Hungry, angry, lonely, tired, there's another A, H-A-A, alone, when you're alone, you are more likely to entertain thoughts of fixing your problems with self-existent means, I will talk to this person, I will write this letter, you know, blah blah.

[Speaker 2]
When you're tired, hungry, lonely, upset, you can't think straight. He talks about it later, he supports halt. I found out recently it comes from the Twelve Steps okay?

[Speaker 1]
So, he says, she says, be careful when you're hungry, lonely, tired, you've been upset, be careful, that devil will sneak back in, you won't be able to think clearly okay? So, get ...

[Speaker 2]
in a way it's almost useful to do jet lag to yourself constantly, because if you can think straight when you have jet lag, you can think straight anytime, you see what I mean?

[Speaker 1]
Cool? Like that, when you get strong enough, put yourself purposely in stressful situations to make yourself stronger okay?

[Speaker 2]
Like, go visit the person you don't like, and see if you can keep the devil from talking the whole time, and you won't okay? Alright, now, she says you are a monster, and I didn't make you a monster, you made yourself a monster, you've proved yourself to be a monster, I'm gonna make you homeless. Now, big segue, then the way for me to exclude you from this mind ...

by the way, I had an idea in in like six minutes, we'll have 15 minutes left, I'll take questions okay? Any kind of question, we have a bunch of veteran Buddhists here, we have a lot of three-year retreatants here, if you have any question about anything okay? It doesn't have to be relevant, I know it's not gonna be relevant anyway, so I'm just giving you permission, ask me any question you want about your life, or about your challenges, or something you want to ...

goal you want to reach, or something about the theory of Buddhism which seems to be ... you know, it's kind of bugging you for this ... this last day and a half okay?

Like, something I said or ... okay? So, so get ready okay?

In about six minutes okay? Now, she says it's time to discuss your eviction, and we're gonna do it with the proofs of emptiness okay? Now, big segue okay?

And this is kind of ... we're going into the meat of the text okay? She says it's time to discuss your eviction, and what do you call evictors?

What are those guys? Their police come, special police, the guys who repossess your car, Marshall's guys, yeah, sometimes they're really sweet, it's the weirdest thing you know, I have to repossess your car, I'm so sorry, no, don't touch the car, get away from the car, okay? So, she says we're gonna do some logic, let's do some logic, and then you'll admit you have to leave okay?

Here's the first one, and then verse 56 okay? So, I'm just indexing it for the recording okay? Then people can use the text later, it has a number on each verse, so, she says ...

by the time I finish giving you these proofs for emptiness, you will agree to leave, you will stop struggling against me you know?

[Speaker 1]
They are so convincing, these Nagarjunian arguments, that you will ...

[Speaker 2]
you will voluntarily leave this mind okay? I don't know, but anyway okay, alright here we go ... and by the way, inherent in that argument is a deeper argument in Buddhism okay?

You ready? Inherent in her comments is a deeper argument in Buddhism, and I'll ... let me see if I can remember the metaphor ...

[Speaker 1]
yeah, I got it ...

[Speaker 2]
yeah, no ...

[Speaker 1]
okay, but slow, this is confusing ...

[Speaker 2]
he just translated this part ... it was a year ago ...

[Speaker 1]
so, suppose you're walking down the road, and you look down, and you see a snake, and you feel frightened, and you're walking with

[Speaker 2]
a friend, and your friend, you know, notices that you're frightened, and

[Speaker 1]
they're like, oh don't worry, it's just a rope, so they're telling you it's a rope, and then all of a sudden you feel better, you're like, oh okay, cool, it's not a snake, I'm not going to get bit.

Later on, you guys are walking back from the same place, you realize it was never a rope in the first place, it was just a tree root that looks like a rope. So the metaphor here, the point is that there is ... you understood it to be a rope, and it eased your fear, but that was still a mistaken idea.

So you're using a mistake to heal your mind from one form of pain, but it still wasn't the truth that was able to heal you. Good, okay ...

[Speaker 2]
yeah, so I always picture this happening at Diamond Mountain, and you're walking down a wash, me and V were there, we saw a nice Gila monster one day, so anyway, you're walking down one of those washes at Diamond Mountain, you've just been discussing desert willows okay, you've just been discussing desert willows okay, like we were discussing them on the way here right? We were discussing the difference of desert willows, so your mind is on desert willows okay, and then you see a desert willow root that looks like a snake, and your friend freaks out, oh I'm almost stepping on this snake, but it's really just a rope okay, it's really just a rope, but because you've just been discussing desert willow roots, you say don't worry, it's just a desert willow root okay, are you telling the truth?

[Speaker 1]
No, does it ease the person's fear? Is it okay to do? Yeah it's okay, I mean morally it's okay, why are we talking about that?

[Speaker 2]
As we discuss these famous proofs for emptiness, you will misunderstand them, the components, you will misunderstand the words, you will misunderstand the meaning, you will attribute self-existence to every single part of the explanation, in your mind as you ...

[Speaker 1]
as someone teaches you the pen, is taking the speaker, and the pen, and yourself as coming from somewhere else okay?

[Speaker 2]
Even as someone's teaching you that they're coming from you, okay got it? The same applies to the classical reasons with which we prove emptiness, well we're describing them in the next few pages, you will be actively misunderstanding the elements, but not the intention, you will be misunderstanding the nature of the words, for example, it's difficult to appreciate when you're getting a good explanation of emptiness, that it's coming from you okay?

[Speaker 1]
It's almost impossible to think that while someone's explaining to you a proof of emptiness that you thought you've never heard before okay?

[Speaker 2]
People, when you explain to them that everything's coming from them, one of the most common questions we get in DCI is, how can I be creating the teacher who's explaining these ideas to me which I have never thought of?

[Speaker 1]
What's the answer?

[Speaker 2]
You shared what you knew about small things, all seeds are smaller than their results, an oak ... an acorn weighs half a gram, an oak tree weighs 5,000 kilos okay? So, trying to help someone else a little bit understand about karma has resulted in you getting this incredible explanation of Nagarjunian proofs of emptiness from the first Panchen Lama in a school in Sedona, in an elementary school in Sedona, you know, you must have some kind of weird seeds okay?

[Speaker 1]
Alright? Something that was born in South India 2,000 years ago is echoing back to you okay?

[Speaker 2]
And while it's echoing back to you from your own good deeds, you will misunderstand where it's coming from okay? Got it? The reasoning that will free you is enslaving you as we give it, something like that okay?

Got it? And we're gonna pick up there this evening okay? We're gonna ...

so, I have to start this evening with ... we're just gonna have two proofs of emptiness, which is kind of a slow day in Buddhism, and then ... and then we'll have ...

then we're gonna go on to 26 wrong ideas about Mahamudra meditation, which ... which by the time we end, have brought you to correct Mahamudra meditation by ... by ...

by default? What do you call it? By a process of elimination okay?

Hearing 26 things that it's not, you can probably come up with what it is on your own okay? Got it? Alright, questions?

Anybody? It doesn't have to be relevant. Yours are too hard.

Okay, okay, no it's okay, go ahead, go ahead. Hers are always the hardest ones.

[Speaker 1]
Thank you for teaching Geshe-la.

[Speaker 2]
Alright, give me your best shot.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, so I'm wondering if you're using the same, you know, you've just been talking about how we're gonna misunderstand these proofs of emptiness, have ... have you been using that same trick when you say that the Buddha nature is inherent to us? Yeah, okay good.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, Venerable Utpala's question is, I ... I made a statement that, you know, you already have a Buddha nature which is inherent, meaning it has been in your mind forever, and it will be in your mind forever, and that's not the case with ...

[Speaker 1]
the devil okay?

[Speaker 2]
He's been there a long time, but his days are numbered okay? Now, your ... your Buddha nature though, continues up to the time you become a Buddha, and while you're a Buddha, so it has no beginning, and it will have no end.

So, I described it as inherent, but I mean inherent to mean constantly accompanying you, and not that it doesn't come from you, haa ... okay? But it's a good question, so I was using the word inherent to mean that you've always had it, and not to imply that it didn't come from you, okay?

Alright, next question, I knew you're gonna ask a hard question. Okay, okay, online ... So, we have someone from online, her name is Anna, and she's from Romania.

She said Geshe-la what is ... Tell her we had a good time in Romania, it was beautiful, beautiful program there, okay. She's asked Geshe-la what is the difference between the gaccha and emptiness?

Okay good, what's the difference between the gaccha and emptiness okay? The gaccha in my pocket is a credit card that wasn't gonna be accepted by Kuchina anyway, you see? Even if I hadn't changed my pants just before I went out with John Brady okay, even if I had worn the old you know grungy pants that I didn't change for a couple weeks in the house okay, even if I had brought that credit card with me, Kuchina being a reputable restaurant doesn't accept the discovery card okay, alright got it?

[Speaker 1]
So, that's the gaccha okay, in the kitchen what's the gaccha?

[Speaker 2]
A husband who ... I think we can call him ... give it a little more passion, yeah good, you got to get whiny when you teach it, she's one of our teachers, you got to do it whiny okay, you know who's really good at that is Ayrton in Mexico, he's like, I didn't do anything!

Okay, that kind of husband is a gaccha, the husband who didn't come from something you did in the past, the impossible husband is the gaccha okay, the emptiness is the fact that he was never ... how do you say it? Never in the kitchen, he isn't in the kitchen, and he will never be in the kitchen, which means he isn't in the kitchen, okay got it?

So, the emptiness is the fact that that person isn't in the kitchen, there's no husband like that in the kitchen okay, not possible, got it?

[Speaker 1]
The gaccha is that imaginary husband okay, he cannot exist but you can imagine him okay, so that's a big point, you can imagine him but he's not real, can you imagine a two-headed purple elephant?

[Speaker 2]
Yes. Is it real? No, you can imagine the gaccha, but it's not something that exists okay.

I wanted to say something else about that, what was that? Oh, when does she perceive emptiness in the kitchen? Yeah, she's kind of talking to herself, should I call him stupid back, or is there any reason why I shouldn't call him stupid back, and then she's well-trained Buddhist, because she's been thinking about it constantly, there's no time gap, she doesn't remember that he doesn't exist two days later after she screams back okay, in the moment, as a well-trained Buddhist, it comes on, where's this coming from? Where's this coming from?

And she's like no you ... okay, then at that moment she's perceiving emptiness, cool? Okay, one more ...

how are we doing? I was late, so let's go a little bit late, is that okay? Alright, Dr. Moore, by the way, Dr. Moore and his wife Bonnie have been grading papers, especially of prisoners around the world for about 30 years, and I'd like to thank them for that, and helping with innumerable projects, I got one more for you, I'll tell you later. Okay, go ahead, now he's scared.

[Speaker 1]
So, if a karmic seed ripens, a luminescence essence comes out, and it circles the object, and it says pen, so there's shapes and colors there? I didn't just put those there, there are shapes and colors there.

[Speaker 2]
Lower middle way, this is called the raw data question, okay? So, the way that reality works is that, another person is holding an object that has colors and shapes, but the ... and in Buddhism as well, in the Abhidharmakosha, in the second chapter, the way the eye faculty works, the power of the eye right, is that there are cells at the back of the eye that respond to light and shape, and that's all, they're just like bits on a computer, they can say black or white, that ...

they are limited to that, they cannot make decisions about what's out there, so technically your eye can only detect differences in shape and color, it cannot decide this is a pen or that okay, the eye cannot do that. In science they would say the eye ... the optical nerve, the information travels up the optic nerve to the brain, and then the brain gets these data, and then the brain makes a decision about what the thing might be okay, that's ...

that's a science okay, in ... in Buddhism, somebody is holding a long green thing okay, okay it's restricted to two attributes, one shape, two color, they are holding a long green in the case of Shere's pen okay, you want to hold your pen up? They are ...

yeah, it's distinctive, yeah, so my eye is detecting long green okay, that's all, that's all I can do okay, my eye cannot do anything more than that. Then, a karmic seed opens in my mind, a small picture of a pen comes out, and it glues itself to that thing, and I see a pen okay, and if you meditate every day, you can see it happening, and you don't have to come to my class anymore okay, like I keep telling you what happens, but you can confirm it yourself, don't ... don't just sit around you know, don't wait for me to tell you something, if you study these texts well, if you get a good explanation, if you meditate every day, one day you will see it, you will actually see it, at what level?

Second of the five Buddhist path, at the fourth level okay, so Michael's question is, who put the green and long there?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, you did in the moment before okay, you did do it in the moment before okay, Middle Way School which is the highest of the four classical schools of India, the lower Middle Way says that the raw data was out there, it was out there, and then my mind interprets it.

[Speaker 2]
So, in a grand sense, don't think Buddhism's task is to discuss the interpretation of objects okay, we're not saying Neil Young's song ... you know, some people interpret it as ... as good, and some people interpret it as bad, Buddhism is not about psychological interpretation, it's about existence, where did the Neil Young song come from?

Not that if you're in a good mood it sounds good, if you're in a bad mood it doesn't sound so good okay, it's not that, we are not talking about psychological interpretation, we're not, we're talking about who created it, who created Neil Young okay, got it? Yeah, so it's a great question, in the moment before your mind creates the ... which implies that before you walked into the room there was ...

no data okay, can we go to the data of the data? Then it becomes endless, then it's like two hours to get the pen going before you went in the room, and he's gonna discuss this problem, it's called the endless regression question okay, which means you should have been thinking about the pen two years ago to get it to be here by now, because you got to get the left side of the green and the right side of the green, then you got to get the bottom of the left side of the green, the top of the left side of the green, the bottom of the right side of the green, the bottom of the right side ...

okay, one more question, who's got one? Mr. Manny, Manny's up, when was the first class you came to? You're historical.

Check, there we go. First one? I'm just curious.

San Francisco ... 18 ... just before the fire.

Yeah, exactly. Okay, okay. Right after the earthquake and fire.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, no, a while ago, but it's been a while since I've seen you, and it's very good to see you again, and thank you for teaching.

[Speaker 2]
I'd like to go back to the earlier question about Buddha nature, and you said, you know, it's inherent, but it doesn't mean it didn't come from you. Which implies it comes from some ... it's some karmic arising then?

And if it's a karmic ... karmic arisings are generally not unchanging things, yeah? Okay, and so there's this little discontinuity that I have around that.

Yeah, and that's why we take questions, okay? Because it's a good question, and it's a famous question, and it's coming up in this text, they're gonna discuss it in this text, but I'll ... what do you call it?

Just in case we all die tonight, let's cover it, okay? So, there's supposed to be like three unchanging things in the universe ... CHOS NAMS SAGS CES SA PHANGS MA'I LAM PA RTOG PA'I DU BYED NAMS SAGS CES GANG PHYIR DE DAG LA SA NANG KUN DU RGYUR BU RGYUR, BSAMS PA'I LAM GYI BSTAN PA DANG, SDU MA BYAS RNAMS SU YID YANG STE, ABI DANG PO'I KHO SHAR, SDU MA BYAS RNAMS SU YID YANG STE, there are three unchanging things in the universe, what are they?

Empty space, which we're gonna discuss in this text if we get there, secondly ... meaning the end of something happening to you forever, okay? At a certain point, in understanding the pan, it is impossible to go to a lower birth ever again, why does Geshe Michael keep repeating the pan?

Okay, at a certain point, in understanding the pan, it is impossible to take a lower birth ever again, okay? Maybe I should teach it like three times every time I give a talk, okay? Then, then there's other sensations you reach by seeing emptiness directly, those are the three things that cannot change, but emptiness is generally included in there okay?

So, if emptiness is something that's unchanging, that means it cannot be coming from a seed, because anything that comes from a seed shows a sine wave, you see? It grows, grows, grows, grows, grows, grows, grows, grows, while the seed is asserting its power, and then as the seed tires out, the thing ends, and so all created things, all things that come from seeds show this sine curve okay? So, what Mani is saying is, if emptiness is also coming from my mind, then how is it that it can be unchanging?

And the classic answer is to point to the Triveni Fountain in Rome okay? Right? Bengame probably knows, I don't know, I was in Rome, we gave a talk in Rome, and they take you to some famous fountain, and it looks like just some old tired talakopaki fountain, and you know, you're like yeah okay, then you try to find a pizza place, anyway ...

the shape of that, or what's that thing at Yosemite? Yeah, when Old Faithful goes off, the water comes up, and it splits, and it goes to each side okay? So, if you took three photographs in a row, the outline of the water would be this mushroom shape okay?

So, the water ... the ... what do you call that thing?

The geyser is being fed by new seeds, but the outline doesn't change okay? And that's how they explain emptiness, so emptiness is flowing from my seeds, like all other objects in the universe, but those seeds are always constant okay? The shape they make, which is the lack of a husband who didn't come from me, is always the same.

Huh? I didn't catch you. It's constant, but constancy doesn't imply inherency, because you can have patterns that remain the same without being ...

not coming from you, without not ... not coming from ... okay?

Got it? Really, I'm not just being cute, it's ... it's true okay?

It's ... the pattern is unchanging, emptiness always looks the same even though it's coming from you, and by the way ... is ...

is the emptiness of something eternal? Is it permanent? Why?

Yeah, when the thing goes out of existence, the emptiness ... when the husband dies, the emptiness of the husband goes out of existence okay? So, it's a mistake to call emptiness permanent, and ...

and many many Buddhist texts mistranslate it, so if you open a book ... people are always giving me Buddhist books, I don't know why, bad translations, it's inevitably just before I get on a plane, they hand me a heavy translation you know, and then I'm like well thank you you know, then after I get through passport control, I'll open it, it's called the ... what do you call that?

Lancôme test? Because there's always a Lancôme display right after the passport control, so I pause in the Lancôme, I open it up, and if it says emptiness is permanent, I toss the book, then I don't feel guilty, I just toss the book, sometimes I leave it on the Lancôme display you know, got it? Okay, so yeah, emptiness is constant, but it's not necessarily eternal, is eternal, that's eternal, that's eternal, constant, brought about, come by your karmic seeds, and never changes.

[Speaker 1]
There's a few, there's a few, there's a few, cessations, space, and emptiness, there's like three okay, from you.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, we're gonna stop there before you get to something I can't answer, and I will see you at 7 o'clock, there's gonna be a nice workshop this afternoon, and don't blow it off okay, come to the workshop, because it's ... it's the application of this stuff, it doesn't do any use to come to these classes if you don't use it next week okay, the goal next week is that you are more aware of the conversation in your mind, and you are actively trying to detect devil appearances, which ... okay, look, the conversation in your mind all day constitutes two things, number one, you are trying to figure out how to get rid

[Speaker 1]
of things or people you don't like, number two, you are trying to figure out how to get things or people you do like, all human mental conversation has two subjects, number one, get something you want, number two, get away from something you don't want, and the devil is always there in both cases okay, I will use self-existent means to get rid of this person I don't like, I will use self-existent means to get this goal I want okay, the only means that are not

[Speaker 2]
self-existent is, how can I plant a seed to make this happen okay?

[Speaker 1]
Now, if we were all perfect students, and we went through these three days, and we workshopped it together, we practiced right?

[Speaker 2]
You're gonna practice talking wrong okay, you're gonna practice saying stupid things like, oh you know I would like to meet a ... I'd like to meet someone I can play music with okay, we need one more right? And okay, and then let's see, I should go to different venues in Sedona, or I should contact friends I have in Sedona, okay give me a devil or angel okay ready?

Here we go, I should ... I should look online, devil! I should go to places where people play music and see if I can hook up with somebody, devil!

Yeah, oh maybe I should call my friend who plays music and might know somebody, yeah, I should help someone else find a friend who's trying to find one, angel! Got it? But I ...

the fact is, each of us who've been trained for years and years, we still think the old way, so can we put up a devil detector? Sheshin, in your mind, and then at least ... at least object for a few seconds you know, you can't find another musician and he's like yeah yeah okay, and then then you can have your normal thought process okay?

The goal of this week is just to object to it once and while, okay? Alright, thank you, see you tonight!