Дебаты дьявола с ангелом, часть 1 (2011, Феникс), занятие 2

[Говорящий 1]
Hi, thank you for coming. So, last night we were talking about... This book is about, I don't know, 400 years old, and I think this is the first time anybody taught it for a few hundred years, I don't know.

But it's very, very... Hang on. That's either significant or not.

Okay. It was written by the first Panchen Lama, about 400 years ago, and he's recording a struggle that was taking place within his own mind, okay? And...

It's a very beautiful poetry, and so we tried to translate it. It's not just any struggle in your mind, okay? Like, there's a kind of struggle in your mind where you want to have your fifth tube of Pringles, and there's a part of you that's objecting.

It's not like that, okay? This is a specific kind of struggle in your mind which is—what do you call it?—desirable, and which you purposely try to cultivate in your own mind. You try to cultivate a kind of schizophrenia within your own mind, okay?

Right now, there's a force working inside your mind which has an idea about how stuff works in the world, why things work, how stuff works. For example, if you wanted, I don't know, a boyfriend, right? People come to me.

You'd be surprised. People come to me. I say, I want a boyfriend.

I say, okay. They said, should I go on the Internet or should I go to a club? And they want me to do—do you know what a mo is?

A mo is where you take sacred dice and you shake it, you know, and then you throw it, and then you tell the future from this dice. If you're really doing serious mo, you have to have sheep knuckles, and you have to boil them until they're dry, and then you rattle them in a skull cup, and then you've got to go, whoop, and then you've got to go, ugh, and then you've got to— you've got to say all these heavy mantras, oh, money, baby, oh, money, baby, oh. Then people think you know the future, you know?

So, as a monk, you're supposed to be able to do all this stuff, you know? You have to play this role right, you know, oh, money, baby, oh, money, baby, oh. Then you go, whoop.

Then you look at the dice, you know, and you have this lady in front of you, and she's saying—and you say, club. She says, club? you say, club looks bad.

And then she's like, yeah, I thought that, because the guy you pick up in a club, he's going to be a guy who goes to clubs. And then she's like, so it's the internet, right? You go, oh, internet.

Oh, no, no, no internet. Internet is bad. And then she'll say like, well, where am I supposed to meet him?

And then you look at the dice and say, oh, yes, there it is. She says, what? And you say, nursing home.

Nursing home. And she's like, this is a real story, okay? And she's like, nursing home?

I said, nursing home. And then she said, Keshla, you don't understand. I said, what I don't understand?

She said, I want a young boy. I said, no, no, you don't understand. The way you get a boy is not what you thought, okay?

That's the whole point of this... of this text, okay? The way you get a boy is not what you thought.

You have to go to a nursing home, find an elderly woman, adopt her, see her once a week or two weeks. Don't have to spend all day. Just go for an hour, just go for an hour and a half.

Keep her company. Because what you want out of a boy is you don't want to be lonely, right? And she said, yeah.

So, the karma, the karmic way to get a boy is you have to go find someone who's lonely and you serve them. And every hour you're there taking care of this lonely person, it puts a seed in your mind. And then...

or then go to a club or sit at home and he will come, okay? Because what's making him come is not the web and it's not the club and it's not anything else. That's not what's making him come.

Plant the proper seed and he will come. And I've seen it happen, you know. That particular person, I married them six months later, okay?

She found him and now they're in three-year retreat. That's Jessica and Stephan. And she did what I asked, which is very unusual.

And... Okay, and... So, there's a different way of doing things rather than taking your chances at a club or taking your chances on the web, right?

She's like, the guy who goes to clubs is kind of a guy who goes to clubs. And the guy on the internet is the kind of guy who spends all day with his computer and not look at you, you know. So, she said, what do I do?

Then I said, just do that, you see? Don't look for them, make them. Okay?

Don't look for them, make them. Don't try to earn money, just make it. You see what I mean?

If you don't like the state of the world, if you don't like Afghanistan or Iraq, then change it with seeds and it will change. You can change it for sure, there's no doubt, you see? So, it's a new way of accomplishing the things you want to.

Whether it's a boyfriend or whether it's money or whether it's changing a war overseas. You see? Hunger in the world.

It's all the same. If you plant the right seeds in your mind, if you learn the technique of planting those seeds, you can make things happen. Unusual and strange things you can make happen, okay?

And then you can't avoid... Somebody asked me last night, that sounds selfish, Geshe Michael. Like you're doing nice things for people just to get money or you're helping the old lady just because you want to find a boyfriend.

That's not really from the heart. That's kind of selfish, you know? You're just like trying to get something.

It's like a business. I'll be nice to you because I can get a boyfriend, you know? Then you have to try to struggle with the long-term implications if everybody in the world was thinking like this, okay?

Like, let's say that everyone in the world thought that the only way to get a good partner was to go visit a lonely person, okay? Let's say that people believed that, you know, that the only way to find a partner would be to help an elderly person. To visit an elderly person on a regular basis, right?

What would happen globally? I used to go to 31 Flavors before they cut me off. And you had to take a ticket, right?

You have to take a ticket off that little thing and then you have to stand there and they say, okay, number 67. You know? I think it would be the same in the nursing homes.

You know? You'd say, I want to visit an elderly person. They'd say, she's booked today.

You know? You know? You take a number and come back tomorrow.

You know, maybe around four she'd be available. You know? No, that's what would happen.

It would happen like that. And then poor people would be very valuable. Right?

Like, people would... They would be very, very valuable. Half the people in the world would be looking for people to give money to.

Half the people in the world would be receiving that money. And they would be wondering why the people who were giving them money were giving them money and seemed to get richer. And there would be this strange thing where everybody would have enough money.

And then normally war is caused by not enough money. And I think war and hunger, disease would slowly just die out. You see what I mean?

So this way of thinking is very strange, very unusual. It's a new way of thinking. We tend to think if I wanted something like money, I should compete with another company or I should try to take...

I should... What do you call? My advertising should be more clever than other people's advertising.

Yeah, I should take market share from other people. In this system, you would actually offer market share to other people. And then the market would expand.

Like double. And you would get double what you used to have. Strange things would happen.

You see? Rather than fighting for a small pie, you offer your piece of pie to someone else. And then suddenly the pie grows ten times and your company doubles.

You see what I mean? And the same with your personal relationships. So this is a new way of thinking.

What you want, you give to others. What you don't like in someone else, you stop doing it yourself and don't talk to them. And the seed will die.

The seed will wither inside of you. It's a new way of thinking about things you want and it's a new way of thinking about things you don't want. Rather than negotiating with your wife or your husband about something...

They don't hug me, you know? I go to all over the world. We've just been in Norway, Ireland, Hamburg, Jakarta, Singapore, Hong Kong?

Yeah. And people all over the world, they ask me the same thing. I said, Do you have any problems about your business that you want...

I do business consulting, right? I said, Do you have any problems about your business that you want to talk about? And they say, My husband won't hug me.

You know, like... My husband comes home and I open my arms and he walks past me and goes to the computer and hugs his laptop, you know? And he doesn't show me...

There's no affection in our relationship, you know? So then they ask me what to do. And you know, in the old way of thinking, a counselor would give you one of two choices, right?

They would say either, You got to sit down and talk to him or leave him alone and he'll come. You know, you will get affection... Be affectionate.

Affectionable. And he will change. Don't bother him.

Or some counselor will say, Talk to him. And if necessary, stick up for your rights to a hug. You see what I mean?

In this system, this system is strange. This system is weird. You plant small seeds for new affection by being more friendly to people you meet in the store or driving in a more friendly manner.

Okay? Things like that. And there's a way that you dedicate it to your husband, that he should change.

There's no discussion with your husband. There's no negotiation. There's no tension.

There's no decision about talking or not talking. You leave the house and you drive in a friendly way and you smile at people you see and you plant small seeds and then you come home and he's affectionate. Got it?

This is a different way of thinking. Okay? So right now you are all...

What do you call? You're evaluating the possibility that what I said is reasonable. So you're like...

You're like 30-70 or 20-80 or 10-90. Right? You're like thinking in your mind, that sounds nice.

I wonder if it works. And then your mind is doing little objections. Like, I have a friend who gives lots of money and she just gets more broke every year.

You know what I mean? And then... then I have to answer those objections.

In that case, by the way, she's not planting the seed correctly. All right? Like, watermelons grow from watermelon seeds.

Money comes from being generous. But if you throw those seeds in the wrong place, they don't grow. You could throw watermelon seeds here and nothing would happen.

It's not the fault of the seeds. It's that you don't know how to plant it correctly. Okay?

It's not the... Generosity will never fail if you do it properly, if you know what you're doing. Okay?

Being friendly to others as a way to get your husband more affectionate never fails. But you have to know how to do it. There's a technique.

There's technique involved. Okay? So, I'm proposing a new kind of thinking that would get you what you hope for and it would remove problems for yourself and possibly for the entire globe.

Okay? I'm proposing that. So, there's a new idea that came into your head.

We call that the angel. In this text, we call that the angel. Then you got a guy already staying there who's...

the devil. All right? Who's the devil?

Yeah, I mean... You know, it's a way of thinking. You should stick up for your rights.

You should talk to your husband or don't talk to your husband. Be more loving and he will change. These are two devil choices.

The devil is giving you these stupid choices, you know? Fight with him or don't fight with him. You see what I mean?

Because neither one works. Why? It doesn't work to stick up for your rights and it doesn't work to give up your rights.

Why? Because it doesn't work all the time. Okay?

Got it? If airplanes worked some of the time, would you get in them? But you do stuff all day that you know doesn't work all the time because you don't know what else to do.

Okay? Everything you do to get something in your life, whether it's a partnership or money or whatever, whatever happiness you seek, the way you're seeking it now is not certain. The results are unpredictable.

You try to meet a guy and then sometimes you end up with this loser. And then you... you do things to get things and then sometimes they don't work.

Okay? You get up out of bed every morning, you try things that you know might not work. Right?

Am I right? You do. You go to work and you don't know if you'll make money.

You start a business and you don't know if you won't go bankrupt. You start a new relationship and you don't know what's going to happen in six months. Okay?

You've been through that. This system says it's foolish to continue doing a thing that only works sometimes. Okay?

It's just like playing roulette or something. It's like the stock market. This system says stop doing things that only work some of the time because that means they don't work.

Okay? If it works, it should work all the time. That's all.

If something... if a course of action works it should work all the time. Or you should stop doing it and try something else.

Okay? That's my... that's what I'm suggesting.

So that's a new kind of thinking. In this text the angel has entered your skull and the devil is already parked there. How long has the devil been there?

In this system we say since the day you were born. Okay? Since the day you were born you started a kind of wrong think.

In Norway we invent Oslo. We were in Oslo two weeks ago. We invented a new word called wrong think or something.

Something like dugudenken or something. And... it's like you've been doing that since you were a small child.

Right? You wanted a toy. You went to the other child and you took it from them.

Right? And you weren't mature enough mentally to understand that the way to get toys would be to offer toys to another child. You see what I mean?

And we are like those children. We're still doing that. Right?

We still believe that how to get things is to take them rather than sharing them. We don't understand the process. So...

since the day you were born you've been thinking in a certain way which doesn't work because it doesn't work... all the time. Got it?

Like you wouldn't get in a plane if they told you there's 10% odds it's gonna crash. But you get out of bed every morning with 50-50 odds. You know?

You do things and you don't know if they're gonna work. And... it's not your fault, okay?

Like, you're not like crazy. You don't have any choice. If there was a better way you would just do it.

Right? If someone could prove to you there was a better way you would just do it. Right?

You wouldn't like keep doing something stupid if you found a better way. So, the angel is proposing a better way. All right?

This kind of approach that to get a toy you have to share a toy is the angel. And then, last night, the devil said, wait, wait, wait, you know? You can't stay here.

To the angel. Devil said to the angel, you can't stay here, you know? And the angel said, why?

And devil said, I've been here since this person was a child. Okay? Since they grabbed their first toy out of someone else's hand, I've been their constant companion.

I've been their heart companion for their whole life. Okay? You can't kick me out now.

I'm essential for the mind. Okay? You have to think like me.

Or you can't live. You can't get things. Okay?

I've been the mind's companion forever. And then what did wisdom say? What did the angel say?

Do you remember? What did the angel say? To the proposal that the devil has been the companion of the mind forever.

Yeah. Angel said to devil, you cannot have been the companion of the mind forever because you don't exist. And to be a companion of someone, you must exist.

For two people to be friends, they both have to exist. You can't have a friendship between a nothing and a friend. Got it?

To have a friendship, both of the parties have to exist. Then the angel accused the devil of not existing. And then the devil was very clever and said, what?

[Говорящий 2]
Huh?

[Говорящий 1]
Yeah, yeah. You are going to an extreme. You know?

You're one of those foolish people who thinks that emptiness means that the thing doesn't exist. Okay? You are one of those foolish people who thinks that emptiness means a thing doesn't exist.

So, you know, you could debate the devil. You could say, well, what do you think emptiness means? And they say, let's take your husband who is not affectionate.

Right? Is that lack of affection coming from him? In this system.

Where does it come from? You don't have enough affection for others. Okay?

If you... With technique, okay? I'm claiming with technique.

If you understood the technique and you were more friendly towards others, you would see more affection in your husband because that affection is coming from you. Okay? That affection is coming from you.

Is there any affection... I'm sorry. Is there any lack of affection in your husband which is not coming from you?

Good. There's not. Okay?

If he's not affectionate, how much of that is coming from you? Hundred percent. Okay?

We're not talking ninety or forty or... Okay? It either is or it's not.

Okay? And it happens to is. All right?

One hundred percent of how you see other people act, especially the ones who bug you, is coming from you. All right? That's all.

It's not some. It's not part. It's all of it.

All right? So, can we say it's true that there's no lack of affection coming from your husband which is coming from your husband? Can we say that?

You have to say that. Okay? That's the emptiness of his lack of affection.

Got it? That's the real emptiness. Go to your husband, try to find a lack of affection that's not coming from you, and what will you find?

What will you find? Nothing. That's emptiness.

That's what Buddhist emptiness means. It doesn't mean nothing's there. There is a lack of affection there.

Okay? That exists, and you're suffering from it. Okay?

It's there. All right? So, the devil said to the angel, you're one of those stupid people who thinks that emptiness means the thing's not there.

Okay? You're accusing me of not being here? I've been here since this person was born.

And then, what did the angel say? You may have been here, but not in the way you think. Okay?

If we restrict ourselves to the way you think things exist, we can rightly say that you were never here. Got it? Is that okay?

Some people had trouble with that last night. I'll say it again. If we restrict ourselves to the way you think things exist, then all those things we're talking about never existed, and neither did you.

Therefore, you could not have been the friend of the mind because you never existed. Because you never existed the way you think you exist. Got it?

Okay. It's very subtle. So, that's where we are in the text, okay?

That's how far we got. Now the devil comes up with something really beautiful, okay? You ready?

Oh boy. He comes up to the angel and he says, let's get this straight. You're saying that I don't exist the way I think I exist.

Am I right? And the angel says, you got it. You got it right, okay?

So then the devil says, well then, you could say I'm sort of illusory, in a way. I look to be one way, but that's not how I really am. I seem to be coming from my side, but I'm not.

I'm coming from you. Am I right? And the angel says, right.

So the devil says, so am I someone who appears in one way, but who is really a different way. And what would the angel say? You are.

You appear to be coming from your own side, but I happen to know that you're coming from me or from whoever has you. Got it? So if the devil said, therefore I am like an illusion, is the devil speaking correctly?

Yeah. Then the devil says, well then, I should stay. And the angel says, I don't get it.

You know. And the devil says, everything in the world is an illusion. Okay?

Everything. Every person you ever meet seems to have come from another house. Okay?

Or their mother. But where did they really come from? Who brought them into your life?

You know? Who brought them into your life? You did.

Okay? So every person you ever meet seems to have come from their house or their car or coincidence or whatever. But in truth, they came from you.

Got it? So can we say that everyone you ever meet is in a way illusory? They seem to be one way, but they are not that way.

What does illusion mean? A mirage seems to be water, but it's really not water. Okay?

Everybody around you seems to be acting of their own accord and saying things to you that they want to say to you, but it's not that way. They are saying to you what your karma forces them to say. You're the one who's...

If your husband complains to you, that's your fault. Got it? So can we say that everyone you ever met was in this sense illusory?

Was every object you ever met illusory in the same way? Is this building... Was this building built by a construction crew from Tempe?

Why is this building here? Why are we enjoying the use of this building? Because we sheltered someone else.

Okay? Did we build a building and shelter 600 people? Did you, recently?

No. Okay? But the watermelon is bigger than the watermelon seed.

And an oak tree is bigger than an acorn. And you are certainly bigger than your father's sperm. And that one cell thing, or three, I don't know how many cells it is, has reproduced you for 70, 50, 40, 30 years with trillions and trillions of cells.

It's possible that a small thing causes a big result. You put up someone for an evening out of the kindness of your heart. You offered shelter to someone.

That's what put this building here. It wasn't a construction company. All right?

That's not how you get a building. Got it? Okay?

So can we say that the building is illusory? Okay. So then the devil should stay.

Because this is my realm, he says. This is my realm. I am an illusion.

And so is everything else. I am the king of illusions. You know?

I belong here with all your other friends and with all your buildings. You know? I'm also illusory.

You just told me I was illusory. You said I wasn't here the way I thought I was. Therefore I'm illusory.

Everything else is illusory. I belong here. This is my place.

Okay? Got it? As if the angel was somehow, you know, beyond all that.

Get it? Is the angel illusory? Be careful.

Yeah. Okay? Wisdom seems to be coming from a teaching.

Okay? You think you're understanding these things from me? You're not.

Lots of people have come to my talks and didn't understand anything. Okay? It's true, right?

If you understand what I'm saying, it's because you have shared your understanding with others in the past of whatever. It doesn't have to be the same subject. Like someone, your boss at work said, can you teach so-and-so to do the accounting for the JCPenney account?

You know? And you're like nervous, because what? Normally when the boss tells you to teach somebody else what you know, it means they want to let you go.

Okay? And you were nervous. But you said, you know, it's my responsibility.

I'm an employee. You know? That's my job.

If they ask me to do something, I should do it. Even if it's replacing myself, which I've done. So, you taught them with a good heart and with a good intention.

Alright? And you put a seed in your mind for knowledge to be shared with you. And that's why, if you learn anything tonight, that's why you will, and not from me.

Okay? It's not from me. Okay?

Got it? Okay? So, even the wisdom in your mind doesn't come to you the way you thought it did.

Am I right? Can we say that that angel is illusory? Yeah, so the devil is really not being fair.

But he never was. Okay? It's not his nature.

Okay? He's like implying that we should believe the angel is somehow not illusory. Or that it's bad to be illusory.

Okay? Good angels aren't illusory. Okay?

Got it? Okay? Good angels are what they seem to be.

Alright? But it's not necessary. Okay?

The angel has come from your sharing knowledge and therefore it's not what you thought. You didn't study and learn. That's not how wisdom comes.

You share what you know and wisdom comes. Got it? So, the angel is also illusory.

And the angel also belongs there among those things. Alright? The angel also belongs there among illusory things.

Now, something very difficult. Okay? Let me think the best way to say it.

If you turn the key in the ignition of your car, is that what makes the car start? Be careful. In the debate ground, you know, there can be four hours of problems if you make one slip.

You know? In front of many people. Okay?

Is turning the key the reason your car starts? Yeah, in this system, no. Okay?

And you have to get used to that. Turning the key is not why the car starts and gets you here. Alright?

If you, in the past, have helped people to get to where they're going, okay, then when you turn the key, the car will start. Alright? And if you have not been generous with your time to get someone to where they have to go, and you have a working car, and you have a key, will the car start?

It won't. Something will happen. Okay?

And then you take it to the mechanic and they say, I can't figure it out. It's a new car. You know, have you been to that?

I had a car. It was called Beowulf. It was like a ghost thing.

It was like, sorry. No, it was weird. It wouldn't start.

It just wouldn't start. We took it to 16 places and they couldn't get it to, you know, you had to, you had to open up the hood and put the wires together and it would start. But if you put the same wires together where you turn the key, it wouldn't start.

Okay? If you haven't planted the seed, the thing won't work. Got it?

Do... So, we've established that the buildings don't exist the way you thought. And we've established that the people you've met in your life, like a husband who won't hug you, is not coming from where you thought.

Got it? Now, there's something more profound we have to talk about. Is the way things make other things happen the way it looks or not?

Okay? Does the key start the car? And you have to say no.

Okay? And now you get, now you get a little scary. Now it gets a little scary.

Okay? It's okay to say, my husband doesn't hug me because I'm not affectionate, I'm not friendly enough to people. And it's okay to say, you know, we couldn't get access to the building because we haven't given any place a place to stay, anybody a place to stay.

But to say that nothing affects anything else, is that a... Can you say that? If I walk over and turn the light switch, will the lights go off?

I mean, do things work? That's the question. If things are coming from you, do they still work?

Yeah, okay. Got it? Alright, I'll say it again.

When one thing in the world touches another thing and makes it do something, like a key turning the ignition, right? It's not the key making the car start. There has to be an element of a seed in your mind opening.

And that seed can only be planted by providing someone else with transportation. Got it? So we say, nothing affects anything else and nothing touches anything else.

Okay? If it could, there would be some problems. Alright?

The devil has a certain idea how things work, which is wrong. Alright? He doesn't understand how things work.

How does he think things work? What does the devil say about why things work? I don't know.

Give me something that works. A what? Atoms?

Oh, aspirin. Yeah, you can say aspirin, okay? Let's say you have a headache and you take an aspirin.

Sometimes it works. Let's assume it's working today. Okay?

Let's assume you take an aspirin and you swallow it and your headache stops. Conventionally speaking, is that because there's a certain chemical in the aspirin? No, I mean, would everybody say there's an active ingredient and that's why it works?

When it works. When it works. Okay?

Okay? Can we say that? So, try to picture what's happening when you...

This is, by the way, wisdom's talking now. Wisdom's saying, your point of view has some problems. Okay?

What did the devil say about aspirin? It works. Okay?

When you have a headache, the devil says, take an aspirin. Okay? That's the devil.

All right? And the angel says, let's follow your line of thinking. All right?

Let's follow your line of thinking. You take an aspirin, right? Just picture it with me.

You open your mouth. You have a headache. Headaches are serious, okay?

I'm not just taking... I'm picking a very important example because in any of us who gets a headache, it really hurts. It really, really hurts.

It would be nice to know how to stop a headache, especially if you get migraines or something. It like ruins your life. You feel...

There's nothing as bad as that. There's almost nothing as bad as that. So, it's important to talk about.

Okay? Devil says, take an aspirin. All right?

And we do. Right? Most of us do.

I do. I take it and I hope it's going to work. Okay?

So, try to picture it with me. This is the angel talking now. The devil said, take an aspirin.

The devil said, an aspirin can help your... headache. An aspirin will...

work. Okay? Be careful for the rest of your life when someone says something works.

Okay? Be careful for the rest of your life when somebody says this really... works.

Okay? Be careful now. Okay?

Why? Because the angel says, think about it. You take the aspirin, right?

You swallow it. Just picture it. You...

saliva is there. You put it on your tongue. You swallow.

You take some water. Right? And a white object travels down your esophagus.

You know? At some point in there, it hits somewhere where it gets to your head. Am I right?

It has to. No, it has to. I mean, a scientist would say it reaches the...

the stomach, or before the stomach. It breaks down into small particles. It's absorbed through the skin of the stomach into the bloodstream.

And from there it travels to the head. And it affects the place where the headache is. Am I right?

I mean, I'm not a scientist, but I think they'd say something like that. Okay? So, tiny little...

balls of... active ingredient are traveling out of the stomach walls into the blood vessels and reaching your head. Am I right?

Then... somehow they bang into the place where the headache is. It has to be.

No, I'm talking for something to affect another thing, there has to be contact. Am I right? If we never swallowed the pill, if we held it out here, would it cure your headache?

No. It has to go into the bloodstream. That has to pass through your brain.

There has to be some kind of... interaction between whatever is causing the headache and that medicine. Am I right?

There has to be an interaction. Am I right or not? Okay?

And there has to be some kind of contact for there to be an interaction. You can't put the aspirin at the end of the building and sit here and hope. Okay?

You have to get it to your head. And whatever little balls of stuff are in the aspirin, they must go to your head. Am I right?

Okay. So they make contact with some part of your head. I don't know if there's bad little guys in there that are causing headaches or something.

What is it? They say the blood vessels are constricted and the aspirin opens them slightly. I asked an MD why for me it works to eat six chocolate chip cookies when I have a headache.

No, it was an honest question. Don Brown in North Carolina. And he said, Geshe-la, the blood vessels expand if you eat enough chocolate chip cookies.

So there must... I'm thinking, just stay in there. Stay with me.

If you ever had a headache, you should care. The little white balls travel up the blood vessels and they bang into the place where the blood vessels in the brain are constricted. Am I right?

And there's some kind of interaction. They affect the blood vessels, right? Which means they have to touch it in some way.

Am I right? How big is the point of contact? Yeah.

It must be big enough because something happens, right? Is there a point of contact? How big is it?

Is it half the size of the little white ball? What's a point? How wide is a point?

Is there width to the point? If there's no width to the point, there's no contact. There has to be an area of contact.

And it has to be an area. It cannot be a point of contact. There's no such thing.

A point in... You learned it in geometry. It's imaginary.

There's no such thing as a point of contact. There has to be cohesion. There has to be an area contacting an area.

Am I right? So there has to be no distance between the two areas. Am I right?

There has to be contiguous contact between areas of the white balls and the sides of your blood vessels. Hm?

[Говорящий 2]
It basically sounds like it's impossible.

[Говорящий 1]
We're getting there.

[Говорящий 2]
There's not enough white balls where to go. There's not enough white balls.

[Говорящий 1]
Yeah. I mean, we're already starting to feel problems, right? The white ball has to be flat on one side because there has to be area of contact.

There cannot be a point of contact. Right? Am I right?

There's no such thing as a point. There has to be a flat side on the ball and it has to rub up against the capillary. And...

For some reason, it reminds me of this song. But there has to be contact for there to be an effect, right? Which means there's no space between the two things.

Am I right? There can't be any space between the two things. Right?

There's no distance between the two things. Am I right? The white ball and the side of the blood vessel.

There has to be... If they touch, there has to be no distance. Am I right?

Huh? So the ball has to get flat and probably the blood vessel has to get a little flat there. Am I right?

No, just think about it. Okay? And then when they...

And then they touch, right? And there's no distance between them. Right?

It has to be. If there's an effect, it has to be. It has to touch.

It has to make contact. Am I right? No.

Even if there's osmosis, there has to be some contact after the osmosis. I think so. It has to...

For one thing to move another thing, they have to make contact. I think so. Right?

For one thing to move another thing, there has to be contact. Right? And it can't be a point of contact.

It has to be an area of contact. Right? So the place where the ball meets the edge of the blood vessel, they will have to be flat for a while.

Am I right? They have to be, because they have to make contact for it to open the capillary. There has to be contact.

Okay? Huh? Can one thing affect another thing without making contact?

In a vacuum? No, I don't think so. Without touching.

The two magnetic fields. Without touching. Without the bodies touching, their magnetic fields do touch.

So, no, it's the same thing. Okay? No, it's the same thing.

I know, I understand what you're saying. The two bodies don't touch, but they're encased in a field, fields which do touch. Then that's how they affect each other.

What I'm trying to say is that if you try to find the point of contact between two things, it must have width. Am I right? There has to be a space where they meet.

Can you divide that space? Is there an inside of the point of contact and an outside of the point of contact? Because if it has width, there must be parts.

If it has width, it must be dividable into the inside of the point of contact and the outside of the point of contact. Am I right? It has to be.

I'm not like a physicist. I'm saying it has to... Logically, it has to be.

There has to be enough contact that there should be an inside edge of the contact and an outside edge of the contact. There must be width to the area of contact. Because if there's no width there, then the inside edge of the contact is the outside edge of the contact and there's no contact.

Are you okay? We had it today. What were we talking about?

What were we talking about this afternoon? Atoms, yeah, yeah. If atoms were really infinitely small, right?

And could not be any further divided, right? Then that means they have no width. Because any width can be halved.

Am I alright? Am I right? Any width can be halved.

No matter how tiny it is, you can split it. Right? So an atom has to be partless.

An atom has to be the smallest element of existence. Right? It should be unsplittable.

Atom means unsplittable. Got it? Good?

If it were unsplittable, it couldn't have width because anything with width can be split. Am I right? If it were truly unsplittable, then the right side and the left side would be in the same place.

Got it? Is that possible? It's not possible.

Okay. Got it? In truth, the little white...

Get this, okay? I'm not going to waste your time. In truth, the idea of a point of contact between the white pieces of aspirin and the sides of the blood vessels is not possible.

It's not possible. It's logically not possible. You know, and scientists are trying to...

They say you never touch the floor. You walk down the floor, you never touch the atoms of the floor. You're walking on magnetic field around it.

You know? It's not possible for the little pieces of aspirin to be touching the side of the blood vessel, which means the aspirin cannot be acting on the blood vessel. When the headache goes away, it is not because the aspirin touched the blood vessel, because it can't.

Aspirin cannot work. Even when it seems to work, it's not working. Got it?

Okay? That's what... This is a...

I was thinking to write a book called A Better History of Time. Get this, okay? We propose that there's a moral element to all interaction.

Okay? We propose that there's a moral element to all interaction. Okay?

You cannot... An aspirin will not affect your headache unless you have made some attempt to remove the pain of someone else in the past. Then, if the white little ball of aspirin in your bloodstream is there, and if the capillary opens at the same time, it had nothing to do with the little white ball.

That was just an... I mean, it was just there. Got it?

If I'm right about the aspirin, I'm right about everything in the world. Okay? And nothing works, except for being kind.

If I'm correct, then nothing works except helping other people. It's very interesting. The aspirin, if it works, only works because you've helped someone else.

Okay? Now, can we go backwards a little bit? Do aspirin always work?

It's kind of amazing to me. Sometimes I think I... I pretend I came from another planet, and we don't do anything like you do.

And then I have an imaginary conversation with somebody in their kitchen, you know? And they've got an aspirin in their hand. And I'm like, what are you going to do with that?

And they're like, I'm going to take it. And I say, well, why? And they said, it's going to fix my headache.

And then, you know, I don't go through the whole conversation of how the aspirin never touches anything in their body, because that would freak them out. And I just say, well, does it always work? When you take...

Is it cause and effect? Okay? When you take an aspirin, does the headache go away?

And they say, sometimes, you know? And then I look at them in the face. I just imagine this, okay?

Like I'm green and I have three arms, okay? And I said, well, so, do you go back to the drugstore and ask for the money back for the ones that didn't work? And they laugh.

Those poor humans, they laugh. They think it's funny. They think it's odd that you would take back a product that didn't work.

Okay? Like someone sells you a fire extinguisher. Your house is burning down.

You pull the thing. Nothing happens. You know?

And you're like, well, sometimes it works. You know? And then we're like, why do you take a thing if it doesn't work all the time?

Or if it doesn't work all the time, why don't you just take out the pills that do work? And don't take the rest. Take them back to the...

Or give them to your mother-in-law. You know?

[Говорящий 2]
I mean, like that.

[Говорящий 1]
All right? You got it? I don't know how to say it.

So, the angel says to the devil, you know nothing works. Okay? None of the things...

You claim to be the king of an illusory... what? Kingdom.

But in your kingdom nothing works. Nothing affects another thing. Cool?

Are my words affecting you? No. Are they imparting knowledge to you?

No. We already went through that. Because people can sit in this room and learn nothing.

Okay? It's happened. If you learn something, it's not because of me.

And it's not because of what I'm saying. It's because you shared your knowledge with someone else. Got it?

So, can we say that the very way that things work is illusory? They don't work the way you thought. An aspirin doesn't work the way you thought.

Can we say that? It's cool, right? It's very interesting.

So, now the angel is like proposing all this weird stuff to the devil. And the devil is getting uncomfortable. Why?

I'll say one more thing, then we'll take a break. Okay? Why?

Get this, okay? Get this. Can an aspirin be curing a headache because of the chemicals inside of that aspirin?

Wait. I'm sorry, I lost it. If a headache is cured by the chemicals inside the aspirin, then is it false that an aspirin can only work if you have given someone else comfort in the past?

Can an aspirin, devoid of kindness, devoid of an act of kindness, can the chemicals in an aspirin cure a headache? We say no. Just pretend I'm right.

Okay? We say no. We say it's not possible.

Is it possible for an aspirin, which is ingested without ever having paid any kindness to someone else, right? Okay? Is it possible for it to cure a headache?

Can the chemicals in that aspirin cure the headache? Can an aspirin both work because of kindness and also work devoid of kindness? Same aspirin.

One aspirin. Can it work— I'll say it again. Can an aspirin work because you help someone and also work without helping someone?

They are contradictory. Can I say that? I'll say it again.

Can an aspirin work only because of kindness and then also work without kindness present? It's not possible. They are opposite.

Got it? In the scripture they say, one object which is both hot and cold. Okay?

One object which is both hot and cold at the same time. To the same person. You have to say that.

Because we drive around in our car and Mercedes says it's too cold and Ningbo says it's too hot. Okay? And the air conditioner is on 37 or whatever.

You know what I mean? So, for one person, one object cannot be very hot and freezing cold at the same time. Am I right?

It's not possible. They are contradictory qualities. All right?

Is it possible to have an aspirin which is working because you've been kind and which also works without kindness? It's not possible. It's got to be one or the other.

Am I right? That's what I'm trying to get you to feel. It has to be one or the other.

Got it? Step back. And now I'm going to talk about states of mind or beliefs.

Okay? Or beliefs. Is it possible simultaneously to believe that an aspirin only works because you've been kind to someone and believe that the aspirin can work without kindness?

It's not possible at the same moment in one mind. Okay? Like I'm covered, right?

Okay? At the same moment in a single mind it's not possible to entertain the belief that an aspirin will only work if I've been kind to someone and at the same millisecond entertain the belief that an aspirin works because of the chemicals in it whether you've been kind or not. Am I right?

Get this. You must get this. And then you can have refreshments.

Okay? I'm allowing you. If you get this, you get refreshments.

I'm sure everyone's going to get it. If I can remember. Okay.

Get this and then everything's good. The devil cannot coexist with the angel inside a single mind. Not possible.

They cannot. Somebody has to go. Okay?

You cannot simultaneously believe that an aspirin only works if you've been kind to someone and at the same moment believe that it works because of some chemicals in it independent of whether you've been kind or not. Got it? Am I right?

Okay? You cannot... One human mind in a single minute or in a single moment cannot simultaneously hold those two beliefs.

They are... They are incompatible. What I'm trying to get you is this feeling throughout the whole book.

And this book is going to take ten weekends like this or more. We just... You ain't got anywhere yet.

Okay? I mean, it gets heavy. Extremely heavy.

The next class is extremely heavy. Okay? The next weekend is extremely heavy.

It's already heavy. Get this. Understanding where things are really coming from and your old ideas of where things are coming from are incompatible.

You have to give up one. Okay? You cannot have...

You cannot keep both of them. You can't cover your bases. Okay?

Okay? Like... I'll take three aspirins, see if they work without being nice to my aunt.

You know what I mean? Like it's... And then go be nice to your aunt or something.

Like, this is not going to work. Okay? You got to...

In the end, one human mind cannot entertain both of those ideas at the same time. Those ideas are the angel and the devil. The devil is not a separate person.

God is not a separate person. They exist in your mind. They are ways of thinking about where things come from.

And the devil... The devil has been your friend for all your life. And you are used to thinking that there's something in the aspirin that works.

And he's wrong. And he causes you your pain. He causes all your suffering.

All your failed relationships. All the jobs you tried that didn't quite work out. All the problems you ever had with anybody.

They only come from that devil. So, he deserves the name of the devil. Okay?

Because he caused you all the trouble you ever had in your life. What? Thinking that...

that when your husband doesn't hug you, it's because there's something wrong with him. Okay? You cannot entertain that belief and hold the new belief, which is what?

If he doesn't show you affection, it's because you haven't been friendly enough to other people on the street. Okay? Got it?

You cannot hold the two beliefs. One of them has to go. That's all I want you to feel before your refreshments.

Okay? One of them must go. There can be a crossover time.

There can be a gray area. Right? There can be a battle.

When the understanding is small and the devil is still strong, there can be some... They have to be in the mind together to fight. Right?

It's not true that they can't both stay in the same mind. But at full strength, neither one can... One of them has to go.

If wisdom or understanding or the angel reaches full strength, the devil cannot stay there. And if wisdom isn't defeated... What do you call it?

Sorry. The angel can't stay there if you can't get rid of the devil. And the devil can't stay there if the angel comes in.

All right? In the end, somebody has to go. If you keep following these classes, if you keep following this train of thought, sooner or later, you will have to give up the idea that anything causes anything else, independent of how kind you are to other people.

You can't be half... You can't be 50%. You can't hope that the battery is going to make the car start, because it won't.

The only thing that can make the car start is giving people rides. And you won't be able to keep both points of view. Somebody has to go.

I'm not talking that you have to buy these new ideas partly. When they become mature in your mind, the old ones cannot stay. Got it?

Somebody has to go. It's all or nothing. Either buy into this whole thing of keep going to the internet or keep going to clubs and you'll find the guy.

Or buy into the new idea, I can only make him by helping lonely people. Got it? Okay?

It's a beautiful thing. You got to get that feeling. Sooner or later, the devil or the angel is going to win your head.

They can't stay together, because they see things... The way they see things is incompatible. They cannot stay in the same human mind at the same time.

Somebody is going to have to go. The whole old way of thinking is going to have to go. You can't do partly new way.

Okay? It's not possible. Got it?

Okay, yeah. One question, then we'll take your question.

[Говорящий 2]
Karmically.

[Говорящий 1]
Karmically.

[Говорящий 2]
You're talking about changing everything in this lifetime. But if you were a really bad person, very unkind in the past lifetime, in a big way, and you came into this lifetime with that karma, is it feasible that you cannot change that karma in this lifetime? Therefore, no matter how kind you are to other people or how affectionate when you go home, your husband will never change?

[Говорящий 1]
That's a good question. You don't know if you have ten seeds for him to be unaffectionate, or you have a billion. You don't know, because you've had many lifetimes.

So you don't know how many you have. It's not an unreasonable question. It's a good question.

Some people can be friendly to people on the street for a week, and they come home and their husband's already changed. Some people can be friendly for years, and the husband doesn't change. And it's what you said.

Some people have many, many seeds from their past life that they have to burn. And then some people only have a few. How do you know what kind of person you are?

It's a funny question, okay? If the husband doesn't change in a week, you're the kind of person who doesn't have any... who has too many seeds for him to change in a week.

Got it? Okay? No, I mean you judge from the result.

If there's a hang-up, if you try being friendly and the husband doesn't get more affection, then you go on a... then you use a special practice called Four Powers taught by Lord Buddha in a separate sutra called the Four Powers. And you destroy the storehouse of those seeds.

It's like, I saw a video of a cruise missile with a, I don't know, some kind of sensor on it, and they were trying to hit a building, and it went from the ocean over a hundred miles. It went to the neighborhood. Then it went to the house.

And then as it's approaching the house, it's 700 miles an hour or whatever, it can read where the window is. It can tell where the window is. And it can tell which window is open.

It's weird. And it went right in the window and blew up the place. So, there's a way to send energy into the storehouse where seeds are stored from your past and destroy them wholesale.

There's a practice for that. Otherwise, it's hopeless. Otherwise, you could have billions of seeds from billions of lifetimes, and you'd have to work through them all, and the husband would be unaffectionate for several centuries.

So, we try the first method. If we don't get results, if we don't see, what do you call? Progress.

Noticeable progress. We go on a Four Powers thing. You go on a Four Powers practice for a couple weeks, and it destroys the seeds.

It's very beautiful. Take a break. If you need to ask me any questions privately, I'll stay here.

If I don't finish everyone in the line tonight, we'll do tomorrow. I'll stay tonight. So, after the talk, if I don't get you, I'll stay after the talk and talk to you until they kick me out.

And Becky, I'll talk about that thing at the end. Okay? All right.

Okay. Okay. Have a nice refreshment.

Okay? We'll start. If you...

I'm asking you if you would consider teaching this module, and then you have to do homeworks. There's three homeworks. It's easy.

You can do them with your teaching assistant sitting at the cafe and having cookies. All right? And you just fill out the thing, and then you hand it in, and you get a certificate tomorrow.

Okay? So, talk to Nicole if you're interested. I would like everyone to teach it.

In our tradition, you cannot take a teaching unless you intend to pass it on. So, you should at least pass it on verbally to other people, but if you want to do it more formally, take the homeworks. Okay?

And fill them out. And somebody will sit with you and help you fill them out. Okay?

And then you get a certificate tomorrow. Okay. You all right?

Your first homework question I covered. Your second one... Yeah, that's a bit of a problem.

We can cover this fast. The devil thinks things change, and the angel doesn't. The devil thinks things can change, and the angel says no.

Okay? Why? The angel says, give me an example of something that changes.

The devil says a flower. A rose. I grow roses.

It's very much in my interest that the buds open and that they grow. I have a... What do you call it?

Flower shop for my teacher. I grew a flower shop. So, I'm always covered.

I just go out and I cut one and I hand it to him. It's so cool. You know, I don't have to go looking around Walmart or Safeway.

I just go out and cut one. And then I was reflecting on... See, the angel says roses don't open.

Got it? Then the devil says, what are you talking about? Why do you say that?

And what's the point of saying that? Even if it's true, who cares? You can see they open, you know?

Then the angel says, well, think about it. Do they open noticeably? Can you watch a rose open?

I mean, normally. No, I mean, you go out in the morning, you feed the birds, it looks like one might open. You go, you eat breakfast, you come out, it looks pretty much the same.

Then you come back the next morning and the thing is open, right? Did it just open at 6 a.m.? Did it like not open all night and then it just popped open at 6 a.m.? What do you think? No, I mean, they open gradually, right?

But it's so slow that you can't see it. You know? You can't actually watch it open.

I mean, I suppose if you sat there for eight hours. Okay? But normally you can't watch it open.

The changes are not perceptible from moment to moment. It's just over a course of 24 hours it goes from a bud to open. Got it?

Are there bunches of moments of opening that if you put them all together you would see a change? If you took a photograph at 2 o'clock and came back and took a photograph at 4 o'clock would the rose be more open? Would the difference be noticeable in the two photos?

Over a two hour period, yeah. But moment to moment you can't see it. Am I right?

Does it change from 2 o'clock to 4 o'clock? Is the noticeable difference the result of lots of unnoticeable moments of differences? Is it unnoticeable moments of difference piled up until you see a visible difference?

It must be. Right? It opens a little bit every second.

And then if you collect 40... What do you call it? A few thousand seconds together then you can see a difference.

Am I right? Can you see a thing without seeing its parts? Can you recognize a car without looking at any of its parts?

Did you ever see those eye experiments like they hold up a picture of a car and the eye goes like... The eye looks at the parts one by one. When the human eye looks at the front of a car can it at the same time be looking at the back of the car?

Cannot be. But to confirm that a car is there the human eye jumps across the object. Am I right?

And then the human mind synthesizes a car from all those bits of information. Am I right? Yeah.

I mean, you see a black round thing which is a tire. You see a wheel. You see a top.

And then you say that's a thing. That's a car. Okay?

You cannot see a car if you don't look at some of its parts. Am I right? But you can see the change in the growth of a rose without seeing any of its parts.

Right? According to you. Right?

Right? Let me get this straight. See, from two to four does the rose open?

Noticeably. Is that an accumulation of unnoticeable changes? Can you see a big thing without seeing any of its parts?

Can you see a car without seeing wheels or steering wheel or doors or top or bottom or back or front? Can you see a car without seeing any of its parts? You can't even imagine one without imagining its parts.

Okay? What I'm saying is the thing about the rose opening is the same as the aspirin. What you think is happening is not possible.

Okay? If you cannot detect a change from one moment to another you could not detect an accumulation of those changes because there wouldn't be anything in the accumulation that was different from any other part of the accumulation. Get it?

You cannot be watching a rose open. A rose cannot open. The way you think it opens, it cannot be opening.

Okay? There is no object on the end of a stem in your garden which is gradually opening. It's false.

There's no such thing happening. What's really happening? A picture is rising in your mind from a mental seed which if you like roses has come from offering beauty to others.

Okay? You offered beauty of some kind to others. That creates a mental picture in your mind of a two o'clock rose.

And then another mental image comes up at four o'clock and it's bigger and no outside rose has changed. Nothing grows. Nothing changes.

It's just new pictures in your mind that are bigger than the last one. Can you feel it? Okay?

If roses existed the way you always thought they did they couldn't grow because you couldn't see it because they would have to be accumulations of imperceptible moments. It's like piling up atoms that don't have a left or right side. It doesn't matter how many you have.

They wouldn't amount to anything. If the left side of the atom touched the right side of the atom it doesn't matter if you have a billion or only two. It doesn't have any width.

It's the same with time. Okay? It's the same with time.

If things change the way you think they change they would never change. Got it? I'm just giving you one more objection.

This is the angel talking. If roses existed the way you thought they could never open. There's no rose opening.

There are two different pictures coming up in your mind between two o'clock and four o'clock. That's all. Got it?

It's coming from you. Then there's a joke in Buddhism. They say...

Someone comes up and says, Hey, it's coming from me, but it's still real, right? And you say, Man, get it straight. It's coming from you, and that's why it's real.

Don't be so wimpy. Don't say, It's coming from me, but it's still real. No, no, no, not strong enough.

Have a little more... You know, boom, boom, boom. You know...

You know, say it the way it is, man. It's coming from me, so it is real. Okay, got it?

That's an objection to people who said what? If it's coming from me, it's not real. Okay?

If it's just a projection of my mind, then it's not real. We say, Go stand out in front of a projected taxi cab. Let the projected bumper hit your projected leg.

And look at the bill you're going to get from the projected hospital. You know what I mean? Things are real because they're projected.

Because if they aren't projected, they couldn't change. Got it? They can't exist the way you think they do.

That's just one more example. Okay, last example. He says...

What did he say? Wisdom says, If things were the way you think they are, then nothing could be good or bad. Nothing could have a nature.

I like to think of favorite songs. All right? I like to think of favorite songs.

Pick the Moondance song. I like it. Okay?

Some people don't like it. All right? If one song called Moondance can be pleasant to one person and unpleasant to another person, is the pleasantness in the song?

You have to say no. Okay? All right?

If one person can experience... Two people can experience one thing in two opposite ways, then the way they are experiencing it is not coming from the thing. It's coming from you.

If you enjoyed the music, it was coming from you. By the way, how do you get more good music on the radio besides talking to Tim Mohausen? He like runs seven radio stations with him.

How do you get more good music on the radio? Speak more kindly. Let your words be more pleasant.

All right? That's what makes music beautiful. Like I haven't done enough since 1970.

Okay. Okay? Because that's also coming from you.

Is the song good? Is the song good? Yeah.

Not from its own side. Okay? You're comfortable with that.

Is good in the song? No. Forget the word in.

You don't have to use all these philosophical terms. Rangshinki dupa, dempa dupa, ranggune dupa. These are all big philosophical terms in Tibetan.

Exists by its own nature. Exists from its own side. Exists by verity of its truth and true nature.

You can dump all those. Just say in. Okay?

Is the goodness in the song? No. You're putting it on the song.

Got it? Okay? I'm sorry.

Go ahead. Great question. Okay?

Great question. How we experience a song, how each of us experiences moon dance, is a private thing. We never know if we're experiencing it in the same way as another person.

Probably not. Right? Probably X number of people had X different perceptions of the song.

But we all heard a song. Good or bad, we all heard a song. So, how could that be?

You know? If everything is my own seeds... And by the way, seeds cannot be shared.

I can't plant a seed for you. See what I mean? You can say, I don't like moon dance.

And I can't like... Okay, hold on a sec, you know? Pop out the seed and give you the seed and just take that seed.

You know what I mean? And then next night you're like, Oh, moon dance is so good, you know? It doesn't happen that way.

Each person must plant their own seeds. Okay? You cannot plant seeds for another person.

And in scripture there's a proof for that. Which is very funny. What's the proof that no one else can put a seed in your mind?

I went to the dentist last week. That's all. And it hurt.

In Buddhism, that's considered an air proof... air proof...proof... airtight proof.

Sorry. That's an airtight proof that no one else can give you a seed because there are plenty of beautiful people who have walked this planet and they still live in an eternal way. And if they could give you a seed, they would not hesitate.

Therefore, if you went to the dentist last week and it hurt, it's not possible for them to give you a seed. Got it? Okay, that's all.

In Buddhism, that's a proof. Right now, you have a question. I cannot give you a seed.

And our seeds are different. But there are collective experiences. If as a group we are violent, if we bomb other countries as a group, if we perpetuate violence on another country, then we could be born in a place that has a tsunami and our local nuclear plant cracks open.

Okay? If we as a community willingly participate, support war, they say in the scripture, even with your taxes, then in the future there will be some violence rendered upon your community as a group. And you will all experience the radiation.

And you will all experience the tsunami together. You see what I mean? So, there are collective experiences by individuals who have planted their own seeds, by participating in a group karma.

Got it? Okay. Which explains why we all heard a song.

That was a group karma. We all sang to somebody in the past, together. Alright?

And then some of us sang out of tune and some of us didn't, okay? Those who sang out of tune didn't like the song tonight. They heard a song, but they didn't like it.

Those who sang in tune, they heard a song that they liked. Got it? Okay?

The song is a mutual karma. Communal karma. Whether you liked it or not was an individual thing.

Okay? Got it. Somebody asked me to announce that there is a prison project going on, okay?

We go to a local prison, which is in Florence and Eloy. They are, what do you call them? CC, Corrections Corporation of America.

They are business prisons. They are run by a private company. And they are huge.

There are 3,000 inmates in prison and they are scattered in the onion fields between here and Tucson, out of sight. And they are big, you know? And like the ones we go to, the two units that are near ours, they are prisoners from Hawaii, imported from Hawaii, which doesn't have space to keep them, and California.

Because these onion fields are cheaper. Okay? So, then we go there.

Mostly Jeff Eddy and Christine Walsh and Jing may go there. But I have gone. The rest of us have gone, but we serve them and we teach them.

We teach them yoga. We teach them meditation. These are a special group of guys.

There are special parts of the prison, like gang guys or, you know, different guys get different parts of the prison. And we've been doing prison visits for, I think, 10 years. And it's very, very, very beautiful and very, very heartwarming.

And they love you. You know? And they are so, so grateful.

And they are the best meditators I've ever seen. Okay? I did the 20 Years to Life guys in Douglas and I never had any students that good in meditation because they got nowhere to go.

And they are so grateful and they just pour love on you and it's really, really sweet. So, if you'd like to get involved, talk to Jeff. Where is Jeff?

Talk to Jeff or talk to Christine Walsh. Okay? They need help.

They need people to, you know, cover. They need people with cars to help with the gas and stuff like that. So, if you're interested, talk.

If you'd like to support it in any way, talk to him. Okay? That's all I'm allowed to say in this facility, which is stricter than your facility.

All right. You got it? Okay.

He'll explain. All right. Let me make sure I covered all your homework questions.

Oh, yeah. That's a problem. You thought you were home.

Okay, two more short things. How's the time? We okay?

We're all right. Huh? Huh?

What time is it? I'm supposed to stop at what time? Okay, well, we'll go a little bit more.

By the way, I'll be on time if you're on time. I'm sitting over there waiting for you guys. Okay?

Okay? And I say, go see if they're all there yet. And they come over and they say, give them five more minutes.

And then... Okay? So, I want you to know I'm on time.

I was here. Okay? I wasn't dressed yet, but I was here.

Uh... I probably would get dressed before I came over. But, um...

Be on time, okay? And then we save a half hour. And it's cool.

I don't want to keep you late, and I don't want to make the people who get here on time sit around. Okay? So...

Just in general, for the next 20 years in Phoenix, I have a policy, I'm here on time, unless something weird happens. And then you try to be on time too. And then what happens is there's this Mexican standoff.

They say, they're not there yet. And then I wait. And then the next day I come late.

And then everybody says, he doesn't come on time, I can come late the next day. So, let's just all be on time. Uh...

We got to talk about emptiness. Very briefly. The first Panchen Lama, in the poem...

I won't read it to you. You find it. He breaks out of poetry.

On a certain page, which you can see visually if you just flip through it. Uh... He breaks out of poetry.

He stops the poetry. He quotes another book. One of the quotations which is not poetry.

Okay? And it's weird. If you're like reading the poetry, you get to this line and it's all weird.

It should be like even visually different. Keep going, keep going. Page...

Page what? Is it... Yeah, that's it.

Is it fifteen? Sixteen. Page sixteen.

Okay? Maybe both pages. Yeah, there's actually two of them, maybe.

Oh, no. One. Anyway, page sixteen.

Somebody asked him what's emptiness, alright? Somebody asked him what's emptiness. Let's go back to a real example of your husband who doesn't show you affection.

Okay? Is there a husband there not showing you affection? By the way, tomorrow we're going to do a really beautiful side text about this.

Tomorrow something special will happen. Okay? Something very unusual.

Even for you elderly students, okay? I found a... There's a very beautiful text that I'm going to do tomorrow inside this text, okay?

But anyway, is there a husband who refuses to hug you? There. Who's not showing affection.

Is he there? Yes. Is a husband who doesn't show you affection because you have not shown friendship to others there?

Yeah. Is there a husband who doesn't show you affection there because whether or not you've shown affection? Okay?

Good. Alright? Was he there before?

A husband who didn't show you affection that wasn't your fault. Was he ever there? There's no such thing.

Get used to it, okay? A husband who doesn't show you affection, who's not your fault, doesn't exist. And he never did.

And he never will. It's not possible. There's no such thing.

An aspirant that works, whether you're kind to others or not, never did exist, okay? And could not. There's no such thing.

Try to imagine something that's not possible. And that's emptiness. So that the big...

What do you call it? The big irony of life is that your life has been ruined by your belief in something that was never there. Okay?

All the unpleasant relationships you've ever had, every tense moment you've ever had in your life, every failure at a job, every health problem was caused by your interaction with someone who wasn't there. Okay? That's frustrating.

The suffering of six million people is caused by their interaction or their belief in a thing which was never there. Alright? When Buddhists talk about emptiness, they're not talking black hole.

And they're not talking nothing matters. And they're not saying stare at a wall until you don't see anything. None of the above, okay?

A husband who didn't show you affection, who wasn't your fault, is a non-existent thing. There's no such thing. It's not possible.

There is no such thing, okay? Which means you will never get upset again at anyone. And it means that Geshe Michael, having taught this year after year, never gets jealous or angry.

Okay, anyway. That's all that emptiness is. Emptiness is the lack of something that never could have been there anyway.

And it's important to get familiar with emptiness and become friends with emptiness and to understand it deeply and appreciate it. Because the thing that's not there is the thing that has caused you all the failure in your life. Any kind of financial, relationship, health, anything has been caused by something that wasn't there.

Alright? It couldn't be there. All the lines on your face, all the wrinkles, which accumulate from old boyfriends and stuff, they're all caused by something that was never there.

Just try to feel how ironic it is or how sad it... It's a tragedy. I like to call it a tragedy.

It's a tragedy. Every time you have another letdown in your life, it deepens the wrinkles in your face. It causes your face to change.

Slightly. Like the rose. And it accumulated over a few decades, you start to look old.

And it's all because of something that was never there. You see? All those feelings of hurt and sadness and failure are based on something that was never there.

Okay? Alright? Try to feel that.

Because now you can feel the opposite. If you were strong... If the angel in your head was strong enough, you wouldn't age.

That's what I'm trying to say. And it's cheaper than Pond's cream. Okay.

Last thing. Oh, okay, last thing. This is funny, okay?

Then we'll finish. The devil says to the angel, you don't want to get rid of me. I'm the mind's close friend.

Later he says to the angel, you are the distant cousin who drops in from time to time. I am the inner circle. I am the attendant of the inner circle.

I'm here all the time. You can't get rid of me. If you get rid of this friend, you will never find friends in the future.

You will get unpopular. If you kick out your best friend, how are you going to find any friends in the future? Right?

He's implying... The devil's implying that your self-interest and your belief in things which weren't there are what motivated you to get friends. He's saying...

He's saying, if you start thinking the new way, you won't have friends. Okay? If you follow the angel's way of thinking, you won't have friends.

I'm the person who's been in your mind for countless lifetimes. Every friend you ever made was due to my influence. You went and got them.

Okay? I inspired you to go and get friends. Okay?

I inspired you to search for friends and find them. Got it? Okay?

The devil's taking credit. The devil says, don't lose your best friend and if you kick me out, you won't be able to find friends anyway in the future. Because I'm the one who taught you how to find friends.

All right? Got it? The devil's taking credit for all the friends you ever had.

And the devil's saying, if you don't follow me, you won't have any more friends. If you kick out number one friend, numero uno amigo, then you won't have any more friends because I'm the one who got you the friends you have because I helped you to find them. Okay?

Wisdom says, the angel says, what? Stop using the word find. Wisdom gets upset.

Angel gets a little wrathful, which they tend to do. Okay? And angel says, don't talk about finding friends.

Don't say you helped me find friends. There's no such thing. That also doesn't exist.

Finding a friend, finding a partner, a business partner or a relationship partner, there's no such thing. It's the aspirin. There's no such thing.

You don't find them. You cannot find a friend. Right?

That would imply that they're coming from their side, and they don't. If you don't find friend, what should you... how do you get a friend?

Just make them. Okay? I...

Okay, that's all tonight. I'm just going to tell you one last thing. I want you to start thinking like an angel.

Okay? What you want, make it. Stop trying to find it.

Okay? What you want, just create it. If you want a relationship, make a list of what you want.

Make the top three qualities what you want. Or if you want to fix your husband, you know, you say, I like my husband. I want to keep him.

I love my husband. He's got like two things about him that are not so cool. He won't hug me.

If I could change that, the rest is cool. He's 95% good. You know, I don't want to go through the whole hassle of replacing him.

You know? Like, he's good. He just needs a little tweaking.

Okay? So, in this system, you don't find a person, and you also don't make a person change. You change them.

Got it? You fix him. All right?

You have the power. In this system, you want to find a new partner. Make a list of what you want.

I want someone who's loyal. I want someone who will stick with me and won't, what do you call, betray me. And I want someone who will be kind to me.

And I want someone who looks nice. And I want someone who likes Neil Young. Okay, like that.

Make an essential list. And then, plant a seed for each quality. Consciously.

Purposely. Design them. Okay?

Put them, piece them together. What you want. Okay?

How would you plant a seed for someone who is loyal and doesn't let you down by fooling around or something like that? How would you do that? In this system.

Show loyalty to your existing friends. You know? Stick with them.

When they're not, when suddenly they're not popular anymore or suddenly, you know, nobody wants to be around them or they suddenly got sick and they can't go out to dance anymore, like, show some loyalty. Hang in there with them, you know? Don't say, you can't dance anymore, you're in the hospital.

I'll check in with you when you get out. You know? No, people do that.

Their friendship is based on going to clubs together. And then suddenly the person breaks their leg or they get sick and they say, I'll see you in six weeks. When you can come to the club, let me know.

You see what I mean? So, be loyal. If you want your partner to be more loyal or you want to find a partner who's loyal, then what do you have to do?

Show some loyalty. Stick with the people you... you are friends with.

All right? Like that. Okay?

Affection recovered. Right? What's the other thing?

Taking out the garbage. That's the last thing, okay? No, I mean that can be...

that can ruin a relationship. Divorces happen from people who won't help. The husband won't help.

You know? Like you make a mess together and suddenly they're just gone. They disappear from the room.

It's like magical. You know? Like you cook a big dinner together and then you eat it and then suddenly, boom, they're out of the room.

I know people like that. You know? It's like incredible.

You're like, turn around and you're like, where are they? You know? And they're like, you know, I'm busy and they're, you know...

And then you're like, well, but there's a... you know, and they're like... How do you change that?

Take some responsibility, okay? Just take responsibility. In small places.

Like, I don't know, somebody dropped a plate on the floor or somebody dropped a cookie on the floor. It doesn't hurt you to lean down and pick it up and throw it out. It takes like two seconds, three seconds.

The result of that is you get a partner who actually sticks around when it's time to wash the dishes. Okay? Alright?

Got it? Design them. So, is it true what the devil says about friends?

Can you only have friends if you get them? No. Don't find them.

Don't get them. Make them. Design them.

They'll come out better. Okay? Design them from scratch.

There's a store near here. You go there, you pay $40,000 and you get to build your own car. And you say, I want this and I want that, and they make the part for you.

And you make your own car and then you drive off and you made it yourself. It's really cool. You can do that with your partner.

You know? Just design them. Put them together and drive off.

Alright? So, this is... It's not true that you're getting friends is how you had friends in the past.

It's not true. It was seeds in your mind from displaying those qualities yourself. Got it?

That's all. That's all we are tonight. Tomorrow we wrap up this part of the devil and the angel.

Okay? We'll start earlier at... Well, the meditation is at 9.30. The beginner's yoga is at 10.30. The intermediate yoga with a sexy young guy yoga teacher at 11.30, who plays good music. And then at 2.30, this class until 5.00. Then we stop early and that's it. And then some people got to fly home to Colorado Springs or wherever. So we don't have class tomorrow night.

We'll have class just at 2.30. Okay? If you... Again, if you have any announcements you'd like me to make tomorrow about stuff that you're doing, I'm happy to announce it.

Okay? Here's one right now. Yeah.

Is it after? Is the tailgate thing after or during the break? Yeah, I think during...

Yeah. Tomorrow we'll have refreshments out in the parking lot. Okay?

It's a tailgate party. So if you want to bring anything that's non-alcoholic, vegetarian, we'd like to just sort of have like an informal picnic out in the parking lot, which is all we're allowed to do. Okay?

So bring something if you want. Right? They have to bring.

Am I right? Yeah. Bring...

If you bring, we'll have more stuff. Okay? Bring something and we'll have a tailgate party out in the parking lot.

Okay? It'll be during the break in the class tomorrow. Okay?

All right. I'd like to do a custom. Since you're all experienced and you've been here for twice now, I'd like to do a closing prayer.

Okay? There's a prayer that we do after teachings in the monastery where we give away the good karma to other people. So we made good karma tonight.

We struggled with new ideas. Trying to... We are trying to pick a fight.

Right? We said last night, we are trying to pick a fight. I want you to feel conflicted.

I want that a week from now you think you're going crazy. There's this guy in your mind that keeps saying, It's your fault. It's your fault.

Okay? Like, you want to get angry at somebody or you want to criticize someone or you want to defend yourself or you want to... You know?

And then there's going to be this goddamn little angel guy in your mind who's going to say, But it's your fault. The guy last week, he said it was your fault. You know?

Like, you're going to tell your husband, You never hug me. And then you're going to go... You're going to hear this thing, It's your fault.

You know? And then you're like, Go away. Go away.

And the point of this class is to create a situation of conflict in your own mind. I want you to be more uncomfortable for the rest of your life. Every time you want to be bad, every time you want to hurt somebody, yell at somebody, get angry at somebody, anything, I want a little thing to go off in your head that says, It's your fault.

Okay? And then Mahamudra is what? If you answer, you get to go home.

It's watching the fight. Mahamudra is to watch the fight in your own mind. It's to step back and say, Oh, there's an angel saying, It's your fault.

And there's my old way of thinking saying, No, my husband's just cold. Got it? And then you're stepping back.

You're not taking sides. You're just observing. Okay?

Oh, he says it's my fault. He says it's not. Just watch the fight.

Become aware of the fight and you will succeed in the fight. If you're not aware of the fight, you won't succeed in the fight. All right?

And we'll practice it tomorrow morning in the meditation. Okay. So we do a thing like this, which you're not going to do.

You're going to just do it like this, if you want. I don't care. And...

I don't know. Who's in the mood? You want to do?

He's a musician. You all right? Satsang with Mooji Satsang with Mooji Okay.

Okay. Then you just imagine that all the good karma is offered to other people. All right?

Okay. Good night. See you tomorrow.