Вордсмит — Книга 2: Трудные места школы «Ум только», занятие 25

[Speaker 1]
Me in modern life is very, you know, it's based on like, actually I was listening to a thing, it said the modern attention span is now shorter than that of a goldfish. A goldfish has like a nine second attention span, but the modern attention span is about eight seconds or seven seconds or something like that. And I've known that for a long time.

I grew up watching television and somehow I heard, you know, there's no shot on TV that lasts more than eight seconds. And I just sat there and I counted one day. And it's true, they switch the shot every eight seconds, unless it's like a documentary.

And that's why documentaries feel boring. And your favorite action movie feels exciting because the shots last for eight seconds or less. So it's like that.

We're, our minds these days are trained for about a seven second time span of attention. And so in that kind of world, which they say, that's the kind of world that the Buddha actually likes to come to. When people can't really think straight, they can't focus well.

And they think having stuff is the most important thing or something. So in that kind of world, maybe not that many people are going to read the difficult points in the Mind Only School by Jason Capa. And so we have to design ways to get the Dharma in their heads that is accessible.

And that's where, you know, diamond mining, going deeper, whatever you want to call it, comes in handy. So here we are. So I could go on and talk about my book, but I don't know, that might be boring.

Before we get started, or I start yammering. I'd like to open the floor for any questions about anything in the universe. This will both help you and absorb any time I have to teach.

So does anyone have any questions that they want to ask me? Is it too early or is it too late?

[Speaker 2]
I would have a question or word.

[Speaker 1]
Who's that? Sounds like Anna. Yes.

Can you hear me? I can. I know I can hear you and I recognize your voice.

I don't see your face yet, but go ahead.

[Speaker 2]
Okay. So my question would be, can you explain to us the pen story from a mind only perspective?

[Speaker 1]
I don't know if I can. No, actually I can. I'm pretty sure.

We did it in pure gold a couple of times in China. So, okay. I'll do my best.

Okay. The problem is, I got to tell you some problems with it first. The problem is with a mind only school of, which is, if you don't know my book that Geshe-la gave me to translate, my second book, I guess now is on the mind only school of Buddhism.

And there are four schools in Buddhism, four and a half, depending on how you count it, I guess. And the third one up, there's four, this one is middle way, which has two branches. That's where you get four and a half.

And this one, the third one up is called mind only school, which is Tsampa in Tibetan. And they, I don't know, they're kind of notorious for being the most complicated school. I don't know.

And so most of the times when Geshe-la talks about the two husbands, he's giving it from a middle way perspective, specifically the upper middle way, which in Sanskrit is Prasangika, Tibetan is Thangyur. And all that means is the school that thinks if you say something in a way that is sarcastic with an absurd consequence, people understand it more easily. And the sarcastic school is the one for me, for obvious reasons, but Geshe-la gave me this mind only school book to translate.

So Ana's question is, can you describe the two husbands from a mind only school perspective? Okay. Well, I guess, but the problem is the mind only school has more than one kakja.

Does anybody know what kakja means?

[Speaker 2]
The thing emptiness is empty from?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Yeah. The thing emptiness is empty of, or the object we deny, right?

The thing we say that is not there, that everyone thinks is there, that is creating all the problems in their life. Okay. That's like maybe a diamond mining way to say it.

But anyway, in our last class, you're all in our last class, we were just talking about the two husbands from the mind only school perspective. That was the quote from Changsa, the Bodhisattva Bhumis by Arya Sangha is talking about that. He's saying about Khorndep and Drondok.

Drondok means giving something more than it has. And Khorndep is giving something less than it has. Okay.

So we'll do it from that perspective as best I can. Okay. So maybe not everyone knows the two husbands.

So I'm going to do two husbands from the beginning, but don't worry, it's going to be the shorter version. So you're like Uta or something, you're some busy executive and you have kids. I don't think Uta has kids, but in this case she does.

And you live in some busy, intense city like Berlin. And you go to work every day and you got two kids and you got a husband and it's modern life. So a long time ago, only the man went to work and the woman stayed home, yada, yada, yada.

Nowadays, the women get to go to work too and still come home and raise the kids and buy the groceries, et cetera. So that being the case, you have a job. And since you are Uta and you're capable, you are an executive and you are very busy.

So one day your boss calls you and says, hey Uta, I guess text you. And says, hey Uta, you need to be in work early tomorrow morning because we have a big meeting and we're trying to close this deal. And if you're there, we're going to close it and you get a bonus.

So you're like, oh, I need a bonus. Berlin rent is through the roof. So you tell your kids, hey kids, you got school in the morning, but mommy needs to be at work early.

So be ready at exactly 7.30 so I can drop you off at school and go to work on time. So the kids are like, okay, mommy. And so you get all ready, you get your pantsuit on, your power suit, so you can close this deal and you're ready to go.

It's 7.25. So you say, okay, I'm going to go grab the kids and we're just going to leave. You come in the room and they're jumping on the bed. They're like, yay.

And you walk in and you say, you kids are the stupidest kids in all of Berlin. Why aren't you ready? Mommy said I had to go to work.

[Speaker 2]
And the kids say, yeah, mommy.

[Speaker 1]
And you run around for five minutes, which is not supposed to be enough time, but you somehow get them ready in five minutes out the door and get to work on time. So everything goes well at work, close the deal, of course. And so you come home.

So it's been a long day after work. You went and got groceries because you're cooking the food because you haven't planted the seeds to get your husband to cook yet. And you say, okay, I don't mind raising the kids.

I don't mind buying the food. I don't mind closing these deals. All I want when I get home is a hug and a kiss from my husband.

So you walk through the door and you have the groceries in your hand. You put them down, open your arms, ready for your hug and kiss. And your husband says, you are the stupidest wife in all of Berlin.

I'm not sure why you married this guy, but he's talking to you like this, but you are. And what do you say, Uta, at that point?

[Speaker 2]
What the hell? I didn't do anything.

[Speaker 1]
Ah, perfect. Uta's trained. She knows what to say.

I didn't do anything. Okay. And so pause.

Okay. So now I'm going to have to juxtapose this, explain the middle way school too, because otherwise it might be harder. So at that point, there are two husbands in the room.

Okay. Uta, what are the two husbands in the room from the middle way perspective at that point?

[Speaker 2]
Well, there's one who is still in my mind who is there because I yelled at the kids.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. So what's the husband that most people think is there? How about start with that one?

[Speaker 2]
Okay. So the one that most people think is there is the one that's like, I didn't do anything.

[Speaker 1]
Right. The one that you didn't do anything. He's just hungry.

[Speaker 2]
Just hungry. Hungry because maybe, you know, he was stuck in traffic earlier.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. The stressed out husband or whatever. Um, cool.

And then, and then there's the husband that came from what Uta? The yelling husband that came from what? From me yelling at the kids earlier.

Okay. So that's two husbands. Which one is really there?

Uta?

[Speaker 2]
The one that is there because the one who's yelling at me, because I yelled at the kids. He is really there.

[Speaker 1]
Yes. Um, and which one do most people think is there?

[Speaker 2]
The one that's yelling at me for no reason at all.

[Speaker 1]
Right. Or for a reason based on being hungry or stuck in traffic.

[Speaker 2]
Yes.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. But not any reason for what, because of what you did, because you just walked in the door. Right.

Okay. Um, and so that husband that you think is there, but is not there at all is the object we deny. It's the Gakja.

Yes. And the fact that people think that there's a husband out there that has nothing to do with how they treated their kids in the morning before work is the reason we have all the problems we do according to upper middle way. Right.

There's coming from you.

[Speaker 2]
Yes.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. So that's the review. Everyone got that?

That's the two husbands. If you never heard it before.

[Speaker 2]
Word, I have a question.

[Speaker 1]
Is that Joel Crawford?

[Speaker 2]
It is. Can you not see us?

[Speaker 1]
I guess I could.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. Um, so wait, did we just go over the upper Prasangika or mind only? And is there a difference between the two husbands that are in the kitchen and either of those?

[Speaker 1]
Yes, there is upper middle way. So that I would have some ground to talk about mine only. Cause maybe some people didn't ever hear the two husbands go away.

Yeah. So you're welcome. Okay.

So the husband that's out there is coming a hundred percent from the things that you did in the past to create that husband. And if he is yelling at you, that comes a hundred percent from you yelling at your kids or some other previous incident of yelling, right? Cause you don't really know which yelling did it, but some yelling did it.

Okay, good. Now, honest question is explain that from the mind only school perspective. All right.

So to explain that I have to talk about my book, unfortunately, or fortunately on your seats, not on my teaching. That's perfect. Okay.

Um, so my book is called, um, the difficult points. Well, the first book I translated is called the golden key, which is a translation or commentary on Jason Coppa's book called difficult points of negative consciousness and foundation consciousness. All right.

So foundation consciousness is the part that is more important here. Um, and so in foundation consciousness means the mind only school believes that we have two extra consciousnesses in our mind and our bodies and our mind body complex. Um, generally the six normal ones that every Buddhist school agrees upon is the eye consciousness, the ear consciousness, the nose consciousness, uh, the tongue consciousness, the overall feeling consciousness.

Um, and then the mind consciousness, you know, um, like consciousness of your thoughts, um, and such. So in the mind only school, they give two extra ones. Um, one for the reason we have all our mental afflictions are negative emotions.

And another one for how is it that we plant seeds where those seeds stay. Um, when, before they ripen and how they then manifest to create our experience in the world. So from the mind only school perspective, when we yelled at our kids in the morning, we planted a seed that stayed in our foundation consciousness, which is in Tibetan.

So a lot of times we'll just say because it's shorter than foundation consciousness. Um, so, so we yelled at our, at our children in the morning that plants a seed that goes into our mind, into the part of our mind called our country. And there it stays.

And then when we walk in the door from work, we, as the perceiver and the thing we see are the same seed in our foundation consciousness. And they ripen as the experience of us seeing our husband yelling at us. And it seems like we're over here and something's out there that ripens as the experience or happens as someone yelling at us.

But in the mind only school, what's really happening is there's just a seed in the country that appears as our experience of someone yelling at us and us to be there seeing someone yelling. And Geshe likes to do this at that point to explain, like, it is one seed that splits into two parts, the thing being perceived and the thing perceiving that thing. And so as far as Drondok and Kundep, Drondok means giving something more than it has.

And Kundep means giving something less than it has or less than it is. So Drondok or over, overestimating, there's different ways to translate it. Giving something more than it has would be to say that just because something is out there, appears to be out there, it is not a seed ripening in the Kunshi.

This thing has an existence which is beyond the foundation consciousness. It is not an idea in my mind that was planted by seeds that I then label my husband as. And then to discount it or to make it less than that would be to say that just because it is something in my foundation consciousness in my mind, it is not something that's not out there at all.

Yeah, it's something that is not out there at all. And therefore, just because it's something that I give the label of yelling husband to, that means, which is in the foundation consciousness in my mind, that means it's, it's something that doesn't exist at all. What it in, in the mind only school, even though it is something you label as the foundation consciousness, it still has the quality of coming from the fact that you yelled at the kids in the morning, which is a seed you planted in your foundation consciousness.

That is, that is the two husband thing from the mind only school perspective. So what's the next question Ana should ask?

[Speaker 2]
I don't know if this is the right one, but um, where do seeds stay in Prasangika? I mean, I just emailed you this question. It's so funny.

I know. But where do they stay? I don't, I still don't get it.

[Speaker 1]
Prasangika, that's not the question Joel, but that is a question. Prasangika, the question, uh, yeah, this is a very common question. And, um, yeah, Joel, Joel emailed me like a week or two ago.

Um, this very common question cause he's doing course 10. Is that right? Six.

Oh, six. I thought you said you're doing course 10 for some reason. Um, course six.

Oh, you're doing diamond cutter. Oh, okay. Um, so this common question, which is why there is a mind only school, Joel, you realize this question is why there's a mind only school.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. I might've ended up in mind only.

[Speaker 1]
You did, you're in my class.

[Speaker 2]
Um, all right.

[Speaker 1]
Because it's hard for people because if you're human, which Joel isn't necessarily human, he's just a booty right now. Um, if you're human by definition, you think things are self-existent, right? Um, and when someone explains the pen to you, you're even thinking it's a self-existent person with a self-existent pen in their hand, explaining how things aren't self-existent.

And so as you go deeper, cause Joel's been studying for a while, so he's going deeper and he's like, okay, I got the pen thing. Um, I understand stuff's coming from me. But if everything is coming from me, where does the experience of things stay before they become the experience I see as the things coming from me.

Right, Joel?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Yeah. I know that's the problem.

Um, and I call it the FAQs. Um, and I guess I started debating when I was a kid, when I was 15, I started debating, um, with my friends. Uh, sometimes we were, uh, drunk when we debated and they were, those were good debates actually, cause we weren't inhibited.

Um, but when me and my friends were partying and arguing about this kind of stuff, not exactly, basically after about five years of that, um, most of these arguments we went through. And, uh, so I called the FAQs, basically the question any intelligent person tends to get to if these subject matters are, are brought up and it it's, they're important. Um, because if you don't get them clarified, you will have doubts in your mind.

And if you have those doubts in your mind, it will be difficult to have the realizations necessary to, um, see these things directly, right? Because even before you see emptiness directly, you start to have an intellectual understanding, but you have to thresh it out in your mind, right? That's called, uh, the path of preparation.

You prepare to see emptiness directly by going to going deeper classes with me, better going to get your microclasses, but your karma got you here for some reason. Okay. So then the question is, where does my, my seeds stay after I plant them to have the experience of me, of things happening to me later.

Right. And so the mind only schools, like, so the Bodhisattva, um, Dundam Young, Young, Bach asked Lord Buddha, this question and Lord Buddha was like, uh, um, they stay in a, um, it's like a basket in your mind because the idea is that, I don't know. I don't think that Bodhisattva had this problem.

I think that Bodhisattva was like Manjushri or something, but the idea was presenting it in a way that went for people who were not ready to understand middle way. You just say, Oh, it just goes into a refrigerator thing in your mind. There was no refrigerators yet.

So he just said basket or, um, and he was like, Oh, okay, that makes sense. And then from there, the whole mind only school, um, grew out of that. But in Prasangika, this is what we say.

You, due to your seeds, you are projecting a you, and because you are projecting a you, right. A being that is like isolated in the universe, right. Isolated in time as well, like always in the present moment, you then have experiences which ripen as you and ripen around you.

So the seeds that you plant are held in your mind stream in, in the concept, the idea of you, because there's a me, there is a stream of events that I have due to the seeds I plant, which become the experiences I see. And if you do course six, I believe he puts it in quotes, right. Um, Joel, right.

Me, they're held in there. The seeds are stay in the concept of me and you have to put it in quotes because it's not the me that you see as me, but it's the me that is the me that comes from seeds.

[Speaker 2]
So the, the me right now holds the totality of every seed I've ever planted. And that it's like, it all kind of ripens into me. And then the next moment it ripens into me.

And then, yeah, I don't know. I struggle with, because you did say mindstream. So it just sounds like a place, you know, but the mindstream like pops into existence 65 times a second.

[Speaker 1]
And each time it, but the mindstream only seems like a stream due to the fact that you have a concept of me that is ripening from seeds as well. Uh, there is no stream. If I think that's in course six, two, there can't be a stream because the stream, cause then either see either the moment would have to have duration or no parts at all duration.

It couldn't end. And if it had no parts of all, it could never stop. It could never start or stop, which is our inner gardener.

Things cannot start. Things cannot stop. So it all comes down to, um, ignorance, actually.

That's what I think.

[Speaker 2]
That's great. Thank you.

[Speaker 1]
You're welcome. But back to the question that you should have asked, which was if, if it's true that the two husbands, um, I mean, what's the next step in the two husbands? What's the next step in the two husbands?

If from my, from middleweight perspective, I mean, what do you want to happen?

[Speaker 2]
So now the question is, uh, do I yell back or not?

[Speaker 1]
Yay. Okay. Perfect.

The question is, how do I, I mean, this is the question. I mean, we're supposed to be diamond mining or whatever. Um, the question is how do I stop all this crap from happening?

I mean, that's all religion, all religion, all spirituality, no matter how crazy or complicated or ritualistic or every goat that was ever killed for religious purpose or every war that ever happened for religious, whatever is somebody's correct or misguided attempt to stop their problems. I mean, even you blinking is some attempt for you to stop problems. I mean, try not blinking.

Your eyes will start to hurt. Then you'll just blink. If you're uncomfortable, even a little bit, you'll adjust.

I mean, you want to torture somebody. You just have them sit in one place. They'll go crazy.

I mean, that's why meditation is so hard, right? Every single thing we do all day is, is some attempt at feeling better at being better at doing better at having some kind of ability or power to affect our world in a way, right? Everything you can examine it.

I've tried before. I was like, is there anything I do all day not to feel better or not to somehow solve some kind of problem? Right.

I mean, even if you commit suicide, right. You're just like, I'm trying to get rid of all of them. Right.

If you murder somebody, you're like, I'm trying to get rid of them. So that solves that problem. Right.

If you go to a job, you don't like, it's like, cause I want the money to not have the other problems that would come from not having the job. Right. Okay.

So the point at, even if Lord Buddha, Geshe Michael correctly explains the problems you're having, you still want to know, okay, what can I do about it? Right. And so the next thing is when you, what can you do to stop the husband from yelling at you?

Okay. So Uta's going to help cause she's very trained. If you walk into the house, open your arms for the kiss and the hug, and the husband yells at you, what should you have done?

What should you do if you don't want him to yell at you again?

[Speaker 2]
Well, not only do I not yell back at him, but I walk towards him and give him a hug. Right. And what should you be thinking?

The one that I think is yelling at me for no reason at all is not even existing. Right.

[Speaker 1]
And so therefore.

[Speaker 2]
My own seeds opening from yelling at the kids earlier. Yeah. And so the worst thing you could do would be.

To yell back at him and therefore make the kids yell tomorrow. And you react to that and keep, you know, sansara going.

[Speaker 1]
And the, and the things human want to do the most would be. To yell back. Yeah.

And why, why is that?

[Speaker 2]
Because of the misunderstanding of that, you know, the, the yelling is out there for something that they have nothing to do with.

[Speaker 1]
Right. Ignorance itself, which created the yelling husband also creates the tendency to want to do the thing that the husband did to you, which will create more yelling husbands or better yet a yelling, more yelling kids or more kids to yell at, et cetera. Right.

And that's sansara. That's a cycle, right? You yell because of being yelled at and feeling like you needed to yell and then wanting to yell again.

Okay. So now the question is, how do you reach? Okay.

So what would it be if every single time someone yelled at you, you thought, oh, they're coming from me. What, what is that called? And had no reaction at all, or we're just happy, you know, a word for that.

[Speaker 2]
Are you talking about Nirvana?

[Speaker 1]
Yes. Nirvana. Right.

The definition is, um, the ending of your mental afflictions due to the fact that you examined one by one, each and every possible situation and discovered that they were all in empty to the point where you can no longer have that reaction. So what is the mind only school perspective on reaching nirvana? Then that's the question Ana was going to ask next.

Um, because you can't do half, right. Uh, you can't say that's why your problems come from bye everybody. See you next year.

Uh, you gotta tell them, um, Hey, this is how you get out of these problems. Okay. So in the mind only school, uh, we'll test on a honor.

You ready? Yes. Yes.

Okay. In the mind only school, where are the seeds kept in the phone, in the foundation funding in the country, right?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Good. She's easier.

[Speaker 2]
It's shorter foundation.

[Speaker 1]
Consciousness is too long. Um, in the country, by the way, Quinn means all, and she means, uh, a foundation. So it's the foundation of everything is literally what it means.

Um, or the con or the full word is crunchy non-part shape, uh, the consciousness, um, which is the foundation of everything. No, you gotta put an H in there on a G Z H I. Um, a Z is a kind of stone that would be all awesome.

Anyway. Um, okay. So that's where all the seeds are kept right in the country.

So, so what is the husband actually when he, when he yells at you, he is part of the country. Oh, that was our class yesterday. Uh, I don't know if you missed it or not.

Um, just say he's in the country. I would just say that. Um, but Jason Copp was teaching us about that.

Um, right now he's a seed in the country, right? Okay. Um, but he appears to be what an outside object and outside.

Perfect. Perfect. Perfect.

Absolutely. Perfect. She rolled in, in Tibetan outside object.

That's exactly right. Um, so when the husband yells at you, what, okay. In the mind only school, what husband do you think is if you're ignorant, what husband do you think is there?

[Speaker 2]
Um, the husband, I didn't do anything.

[Speaker 1]
The, the uncaused one by me, the husband that is just there as an outside object that you didn't do anything to create. Right. But the husband is in fact a, I don't know, a seed in the country.

Exactly.

[Speaker 2]
Ripening as something that looks as an external object.

[Speaker 1]
Right. And you there to perceive that same object.

[Speaker 2]
Yes. The splitting of the seed in the, in the experience with the top.

[Speaker 1]
Exactly. So therefore when the husband starts yelling at you, you should think this is only a, this is only a seed in my mind.

[Speaker 2]
This is only a projection of my mind, which my F top mind.

[Speaker 1]
Yes. Well, F thought mine, that's different. That's negative consciousness, but yeah, your mind is definitely F top either way.

Um, this is due to, okay. And I'm experiencing this due to the fact that I have put this seed in my mind previously from, uh, from what I lost you from yelling at the kids in the morning.

[Speaker 2]
Ah, yes. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. From nearly about the kids. Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. So still the worst thing I could do would be to not say anything, uh, to, to, uh, screen back. Yeah.

Because that would plant another seed and we'll keep the cycle going. Right. Another seed in my country, which will then ripen as another husband yelling at me or someone else.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

So that's, so that's how you stop the cycle according to, um, the mind only school, or, or you can think to yourself, the idea of him, which is in the country is, is only an idea which I'm placing on him. And his real causes are due to the children. That's where they really come from.

That's, that's his, his Shen Wong, his, uh, he's dominated, he's created, he's controlled by the causes that came from the fact that I yelled at the kids, but, and the idea that he's just coming from me is just that it's just an idea. It's just a label, which then people, what did Geshe Michael say when his teacher explained that to him?

[Speaker 2]
That sounds correct.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Good. Joel.

That's what Joel said when he emailed me, he's like, wait, what, isn't this the same thing? Right. Um, and it is very close and apparently due to the fact that it's that close, the mind only school can't, I've heard two stories, but after you study Sutra, you study, you study the diamond way.

Um, and they say the secret teachings, right. And they say mind only school can get you most of the way. And I've heard also, it can get you the whole way, but I'm like, if it gets you the whole way, why do we need little way?

Um, maybe it's faster. I don't know, but, uh, it's so close that it can get you very far by itself. But the only, the main difference is there doesn't need to be an extra part of your mind because you always, cause if everything is created by seeds, you have to say that every part of your mind would be created by seeds, right?

There's no part of your mind. That's not project, not project, which would mean the Quincy was a projection too, which there you go.

[Speaker 2]
That's why I asked you this question today, basically the second time for me, because I see that they are very close and I cannot pinpoint exactly the difference. So that's why, uh, that, that's why I asked you again. Thank you so much for your answer.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. And then you have to realize the mind only school believes that there's two kinds of labels. There's labels that don't exist and labels that do exist.

Yeah. There's imaginary contacts and then there's actual contact the imagined and, but, and the worst imaginary couldn't talk. Couldn't talk just means something made up.

Kuhn is all again, talk is label. So completely, completely made up. And so the worst couldn't talk is the gotcha is to think that there's stuff out there that there's not, um, that's not coming from the things that you did, the seeds you planted in your foundation consciousness and course 15 would be the course.

If you want to study that more or listen to the, like, I don't know how many classes me and Gashel have done on it now, I guess about a hundred. Um, and that's all on the Tibetan language channel on YouTube for free. I think, I don't know.

Asked him. Okay. Are there any other questions?

Have I, I bored you enough?

[Speaker 3]
No word. This is just me from China. I have a question about the, the pain story.

Uh, when we see a star, when we see, uh, there's a stakes here and let us see, uh, ripen and, uh, a picture made of, uh, lights, uh, project on the thing. My question is, um, why it's a pain seeds, but not other seeds ripen and the wrap on the thing. What's the relationship between, uh, this thing and the seeds in my mind?

[Speaker 1]
Oh, that's a good question. Um, I mean, the smart Alec Buddhist answer would be, there is no relationship. Um, but because those are projections too, right.

Um, but, uh, I don't know if we're getting more specific or deeper, I would say that, um, and this is how you get the lower, the lower middle way. This kind of question is the difference between upper and lower middle way. Cause in lower middle way, they say, well, there is parts out there that, I don't know, that suggests the pen to you.

And then you put the label of pen on it. Yes. Um, and then, I mean, the upper middle way person would then say, but where do the parts that suggest pen to you come from?

Um, basically, um, I would say something like this. It's layered the things you label as the things in your world. If you don't examine them as things, you just think of them as the objects.

Then you are projecting a world of objects that you, that come from your projections, right? And then if you begin to examine any of those objects more deeply or think of them more deeply, then you are considering the projections on which your projections are based. So, cause you could say, Hey, why am I labeling this thing a pen, right?

Why is it saying pen to me? And that suggestion, that question suggests something that's self-existent, which is why can't I write with my finger? So, um, at that point, you have to say, this would be a prosagica.

This would be a telling your, uh, absurd statement. Um, I guess it's impossible to write with your finger. And you would say what, Jasmine?

Um, it's a pen. Well, you would say, of course, it's impossible to write with your finger. I can't write with my finger.

[Speaker 3]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Right.

[Speaker 3]
But I will not call it a pen.

[Speaker 1]
But if you wrote with it, wouldn't it be a pen finger or something? I mean, is it not a pen anymore when the ink runs out? How about that?

Hmm. It's just a pen without ink, right? Yes.

So just because you can't write, just because you can't write with something doesn't mean it's not a pen. Exactly. Yeah.

So even things you can't write with, you still call pens.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
So you don't write with your finger. Why can't you call it a pen? You know, okay.

The debate goes, but of course you don't call your finger a pen because you've never, you could say, oh, oh, I've never written with my finger. Therefore it's not a pen, but then you always have the same problem. And basically this is the, eventually you get to the point where you realize anything could be anything if you had the seeds for that thing to be that thing.

And that's, and that's miracles because miracles aren't miracles. Miracles are just things happening outside of how people, um, usually project them as right. People don't project people project themselves as being able to walk.

Usually. Does that mean every person can walk?

[Speaker 3]
No.

[Speaker 1]
Does that mean you're not a person if you can't walk? So paraplegics aren't people. You understand, you see the problem.

And this is chi che doc. Any classification you give to something, there can be an exception that still makes that death where that thing can still be the thing and not fit in that classification.

[Speaker 3]
So actually it's an illusion that, um, uh, for example, in our daily life, um, some people are not friendly to you, but it's always these people, but some people are always kind, kind to us. So it's an illusion that these people, it's always good to me. And this is always bad to me.

Actually, it's an illusion. There's no relationship at all.

[Speaker 1]
Zero.

[Speaker 3]
Exactly. Thank you.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Quit your job and hand out pens. Obviously.

[Speaker 3]
Thank you so much. Thank you.

[Speaker 1]
I'm joking. Don't quit your job. I mean, if you want to, if you got the seeds, um, I quit mine and I got this job, so I don't know.

I guess it worked out. Um, okay. One more minute.

Any more questions? No. Okay.

Thank you so much. So, um, that was our going deeper. I hope it helped you.

That was, thanks for Ana's question. Cause, uh, my presentation would have been more boring. Um, um, so we have another mixed nuts class in like, uh, nine hours, I guess.

Um, or nine and a half. Um, so please come to that. I don't know.

I'd have to look at the schedule to see what that class was and I don't have it up, but it's going to be fun. So just come and then we'll have these going deeper slash diamond mining classes every other day, except during our break on December 6th and 7th, depending on what country you're in. Um, so please come to all the classes you can and, um, hopefully, um, you can design your own practical uses for this stuff.

Okay.

[Speaker 2]
Okay. Thank you very much. Okay.

Thank you so much.

[Speaker 1]
You're very welcome. Bye everybody.