Вордсмит — Книга 2: Трудные места школы «Ум только», занятие 79

[Speaker 3]
We're actually going to be talking about some very important information I've been learning over the last couple of weeks, so please feel free to take a moment to get All right. If you're on, I swear to God. Lock in Joseph Hayden.

Eddie. Lock in Joseph Hayden. OK.

Let's lock it in. How are you feeling now, Miss Terri?

[Speaker 1]
Let's find out. Who is that guy? What's that guy doing there?

Are we ready. I should, I should be on the zoom. Okay, your sound is on.

That's a mystery, Mike, we can hear you guys loud and clear. Yeah. Okay, cool.

I'm going to start with homework. You. I know.

I agree. My six a second I'll introduce my book while we take the screen. Wait for the screen share.

Okay, welcome everybody welcome back. So, now we are going to study the mind only school. So, there, there are 12 translators, and each one, basically got an assignment for a different kind of Buddhism.

And we just had 10, which is lower branch of the middle way. And just below that school in terms of view is the mind only school. So, we are translating a book by Jason copper from about 100 years ago.

And it was, it was a poem, actually. And, you know, Jason copper doesn't like to mess around. So, he, he wrote it about the hardest points.

And what might be the hardest school to understand, which is a mind only school. And so, but it was so hard that none of his students understood. So he had to write a commentary to that, which is still hard.

But that's what we are studying right now. So, and the commentary is mostly on every, every school in Buddhism talks believes in like six consciousnesses, at least. And mind only school believes in two extra ones foundation consciousness and negative consciousness.

And we're almost at the end of our book. I think we're like 96% done or something. And at the end of the book, Jason copper presents arguments.

I don't think all of them are for the foundation consciousness, but it's arguments about the foundation consciousness. Like either for against. Yeah, just like basically brief discussions on why the foundation consciousness is, has to exist, or something like that.

There's eight of them. And we've been going through them. And we are going to review my screen share is taking forever but I'll say out loud the first question.

So we're on the fifth argument. It's just my computer it's slow. What is the fifth argument concerning the existence of the foundation consciousness called.

So each one of them has a nickname, which we went over like eight months ago. And you forget, but I have to write some homework question. So, this is the question.

Does anyone remember does anyone remember what it's about what we did last class that wasn't that long ago that was two weeks ago. They're all that that's his argument for all eight of them. He just said that.

Now, nothing.

[Speaker 2]
Many countries.

[Speaker 1]
Foundation consciousness going on in the background. Yeah, that's what he says for almost all of them, but what specifically is this one about, or any language. Pick one.

Okay, it's, it's called lay this one is about karma or activities or something like that. Why, how can things occur. And he goes over, he goes over these, he goes his whole scenario of you hiking, like bell rock.

Yeah, that's what I remember. Yeah. Keep your mind on not falling off and still see the rocks in front of you, how can you have multiple awareness is going on at the same time.

Yeah, it's activities because he's saying lay and that's why he says like this the argument. What's the, what's foundation constantly doing during that time. Yeah.

And how can it possibly do it. Okay, good. So what are the four parts of this argument.

What are the four, what are the four things going on when you're hiking to bell rock.

[Speaker 3]
The first one.

[Speaker 1]
There are four awarenesses Yeah, what are they. Yeah, if you're on the trail, what are the four things you're noticing. Huh.

The objects that I see and that's one you. Uh huh. The road.

Yep, the self me. Good. Yep, we got to get you aware of yourself awesome you were yourself and you're aware of the things you're looking at.

In the past. That's the view. But yes, you're correct.

We Paula. There's two more. What did you just say Stanley, something about direction, kind of like place, the place where you're stepping.

Yeah. Uh huh. And then there's one more movement of your mind.

Kind of. It's the world in general they they say like the world the world around you or something like that.

[Speaker 3]
Oh, which is different from that.

[Speaker 1]
Yes, three of them could be translated play as place. Yeah. So it's a little difficult.

Okay, good. Okay, number three, why is it necessarily the case that we have a foundation consciousness in terms of these four things occurring.

[Speaker 3]
So what.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, basically, good, good. Don't become said that there has to be a foundation conscious because otherwise you couldn't notice those things happening. Okay.

At the same time back. Yeah. Yeah, there must be a foundation comes for a person to perceive all four of these.

Okay. That's it. Basically chip char, but I kept it vague so I can't be wrong.

All right. Okay, so therefore, each one of those four had a nickname in West Chinese. Here they are.

What's the first one. The best container said word I'm like, Yeah, exactly. Nick and Gibson.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, yourself.

[Speaker 1]
I did I was right again. May location. Yeah, the place you're stepping place spot you're stepping.

Now, it's me.

[Speaker 3]
Me.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, object. Yeah, good. Yeah.

Yeah, you can also mean place so if you don't have context for these an explanation, you can be in place naked in place new can mean place. All right. All right.

Yeah, we did. All right. Okay, my student translation.

So we're halfway through that argument about four things that can happen late. And here it is. Data, young number shipper.

Check chart. Also in that same vein. Why is it impossible for the activities to occur simultaneously to the consciousness consciousness.

If it's not the case that foundation consciousness and other states of mind can exist can coexist at the same moment. And why do you say that the activity would be impossible. Yeah.

Good. Next one. It's hard.

It's a hard. It's hard. Glad to someone want to read.

Lindsay wants to. Yeah. I think we should give Lindsay a hand for all her hard work.

We, the whole translation program costs $1 million. And we lost our sponsor in a single day. And all these people are having kids.

All the translators are having kids I don't know why. And then, you know, it's really frightening for me, it's a very bad day. And she stepped in and we're in good shape.

You know, so I like to think. Okay, read from the top. Okay.

Um, with regard to this question. Here is a brief summation of the four activities covered above. They are as follows awareness of the world around you awareness of the place awareness of the thought me and awareness of the objects of perception.

Yeah, it's a very nice transition. I rarely don't criticize I'm good. It's a good transition.

Thank you very rare. Okay. All right.

Somebody. Okay. By the way, I'll just give him something wrong.

There's a word repeated here for a certain purpose by our number. Why is it significant. It's another name for the minors, it is in fact another name for the minority school so he says, when he says conscious awareness awareness awareness awareness.

The native word that he uses is a nickname for the minority school so there's a somehow if you're a really subtle translator, you have to bring out that implication, you know, and it's very difficult here, I don't see an easy way to do it. Concept and said conceptualists. You could say that the word awareness, again, repeated four times here is a synonym for the minority school itself.

So, you know, but it's, you can't see it in the English. All right. Okay.

Some compass being cute, as he often. And then he waits and sees if anybody gets it. Mind only.

Okay. All right. Only.

There's a certain point at which it would be destructive for the reader if you pointed it out. So, we've got it's a, it depends on who you expect to be reading the book, how you translate anything depends on who you anticipate is going to be the reader, and there'll be much different translations for different readers. If you're good, if you're good at.

[Speaker 3]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. These awarenesses are perceptions occurring simultaneously on a moment to moment basis. Therefore it is wrong for them to exist this way in a single instance to a single consciousness, because they are in essence separate.

Yeah. DE'I PHYI'I PHYI'I PHYI'I PHYI'I DE'I PHYI'I PHYI'I PHYI'I PHYI'I PHYI'I Definition of mitakpa. Changing thing?

Changing impermanence. The definition of impermanence. He's playing here again.

He's playing, in the background he's playing. He's using the same verbiage. DE'I PHYI'I PHYI'I PHYI'I PHYI'I So the question is, the big question is this, when you're walking up the path on, what's that called, Red Rock or whatever?

Bell Rock. By the way, I keep thinking about the guy, the experienced, 30 year old mountain climber, who probably some nice looking lady was down below, and he took a misstep and he died. He fell off Bell Rock recently.

So the question is, and it's an easy hike, it's almost flat, it's just slippery, and it's a long fall. My teacher saw the Bell Rock and called it Atisha Stupa Rock. It looks just like Kadampa Stupa.

So anyway, the question is, when you hike the rock safely, is it that you are instantaneously, what do you call that, alternating between visual, sound, location, awareness, to stay safe? Or are they all taking place simultaneously? That's the question.

Are you just flipping through them very quickly? Or are you really maintaining different states of consciousness at the same moment? And that's the debate here.

What would you say? That's the question here. Are they discrete moments of perception from each other?

Your awareness of the rocks, your awareness of the angle, your awareness of the light in the sky. Well, you have to say yes, because there are four. Are they going so quick between each other, like this?

Or are they all at the same time? Yeah, it depends what school you're in. What would this school say?

What would the minority say?

[Speaker 3]
One of the minority arguments is that it's a mistake to think that the object of perception of the subject is coming from differences. And that's the same argument, but not with objects, but with perceptions.

[Speaker 2]
So I would say the country was the first to come up with this.

[Speaker 1]
I think I believe the argument is that they want to say... You see, I believe the argument is being used against them. Whoever doesn't like the idea of storehouse consciousness is saying, look, if it takes place at all, it has to be interleaved.

It can't be at the same moment. And I believe a minority person would say, no, it's happening at the same time. And they would say, in fact, if you're able to focus on those four or five different factors at the same moment, you must have a foundation consciousness.

And then therefore, that's a proof of foundation consciousness. I think that's their position right here.

[Speaker 3]
They don't believe in friends?

[Speaker 1]
They do believe in Keichiki, Keichiki, they said it here, but they don't... Somebody in this argument is trying to swing that way. Look, it's not necessary that there's a background consciousness running all the time.

You have an instant of background, and you have an instant in the foreground, and then you have an instant of hearing, and then you have an instant of smelling, and they're moving so fast that you can't really separate them in your mind. But I believe the mind-only school is saying there's a unifying consciousness, storehouse consciousness never rests, and it's just spitting out seeds for the rest to happen. See what I mean?

Something like that? Something like that. That's the argument.

I'm trying to explain how you can have multiple awarenesses apparently at the same time. Some hardcore guys will say, no, no, they don't happen at the same time. You are instantaneously switching between them.

And then I think the mind-only school wants to say, no, no, this foundation consciousness is running in the background all the time. And there can be two consciousness running at the same time. Okay?

Yes. You ready? Back to reality?

Some sort of reality. How many people remember that as being the last line of Home Alone? Anybody?

I saw it recently, and they took it out. And I thought it's going crazy. I thought I saw it in a dream or something.

Back to reality. No? What do I do?

I go here. You have to start yelling. Yeah, his brother yells at him because he found his magazines and I remember.

That used to happen to me. Let's see. Where are you?

I got to go find you. Okay. I can turn this up?

Yeah, no. Let's start with the sixth argument again. Did I pass it yet?

No. Here we go. Okay, who's going to read?

These people? Oh, can I say one more thing? We've spent six years on Vimalakirti's Sutra.

That's a beautiful story that's very popular in China traditionally about a businessman, a wealthy, spoiled young man, who's a businessman. His name is Vimalakirti. And he, one by one, he meets the closest disciples of Mandala and gets into arguments with them.

He beats everyone. We just finished six years of it, and we finished the last chapter of the first book, which is an unbelievable psychedelic recording of Shariputra, the hero of the Heart Sutra, debating a goddess, who to show him emptiness, turns him into a goddess and turns herself into Shariputra. And they reverse.

And she says, well, how does that feel? And how does that affect your understanding of emptiness? And then we reached a point where we have to, that's like 500 pages of English, and we have to stop there.

We're going to put out the first volume, which is exciting. So take a couple months to clean that up. But we were looking for the Sanskrit.

And the Sanskrit, we have a copy of the Sanskrit, but it's not very good. And we have this Sanskrit finder expert called Aisha Skufala Singulyan Kirimama. And I'm happy to say today I got this copy.

This is an extremely rare manuscript that was vowed to go to Japan briefly. And Japanese printed a few copies. And Aisha talked them out of one.

This is the first half of the sutra. So I'd like to give her a hand here. Super.

I mean, for us, it's a big deal. It's a very big deal. Because we have problems with the language is so old that we have questions that we can't resolve without the Sanskrit.

Okay, handsome, go. Do you want to read? Would you like to read?

She's dying to read. She told me the other day. You want me to hold that?

Okay.

[Speaker 3]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
The sixth argument in support of kunshi. These are arguments being presented by blind-only guys. Rigpa Druppa, six logics.

Kunshimen. And they often start, the arguments often start with kunshimena. If there were, if there weren't no kunshi, if there was no background consciousness, storehouse consciousness, then, tsul shen nam, tsul shen mayi ma?

It would be both appropriate and inappropriate. Semes. Yeah, minds.

States of mind that are appropriate and states of mind which are inappropriate. kap tam che du. All instances, all...

Yeah, in all possible situations, whether you're doing something bad or you're doing something good, lu la kyepar kyeway, there would have to be a base home state of awareness that's independent of your behavior, good or bad behavior. Let's say that. Wouldn't there have to be a background state of mind running while you're having these temporary attitudes of doing something good or doing something bad?

Wouldn't there have to be an awareness running in the background? Something like that. If there were no kunshi, mi si, it would be impossible.

You couldn't have a, what do you call it, a coherent perception of your mind changing from virtuous to non-virtuous and vice versa, if there wasn't a background consciousness going on. To evaluate, to be there as the change takes place. You see what I mean?

If you are the change, you wouldn't be aware of it. There must be a background state of mind to watch yourself change from bad to good. You see what I mean?

And remember that you were a background state of mind. To witness the change, there must be a witness state of mind. That's the argument.

kap tam je du, lu la kyep. It would have to... to have some kind of experience in the body, like overall in the body.

Yeah, it would have to be an overarching experience of the different states of mind. Lu la kyep pa kye mi nyur wa de. But if you say there's no kunshi, if you say there's no foundation consciousness, mi si, then awareness of your different states of mind would be impossible.

There would be no state of mind watching your different states of mind. Something like that. nyur de, nyur wa de la ten chinpay kone.

There has to be a state of mind which offers a ten. Some kind of foundation or basis for those experiences. Yeah, those experiences have to take...

those different experiences have to take place in the background of a larger or more coherent awareness going on in the background. Chinpay kone. Lu la kye wa juk pa ten me pe.

Lu la kye wa juk pa ten me pe. I guess it wouldn't be in the body. Yeah, there isn't ten me, there isn't a basis to juk pa for that to occur.

Kye wa is an experience, lu la, in the body. Yeah, you're in the same body as you have good and bad states of awareness, but it wouldn't be the body that was aware that you switched. The body isn't aware in that sense.

Therefore, you can... Causal condition? Cause?

There would be no supporting condition. There would be no sabhan. There's no seed.

There'd be no seed because there's no storehouse for the seed. Okay? No basis.

How could you have switches of experience? How could you have an awareness that stretches across those switches of experience? Then that implies that there would be no separate seeds creating those states of mind.

Because there's no storehouse for those seeds to stay close to the mind.

[Speaker 3]
Does this identify the nodes?

[Speaker 1]
No, it's just holding them. It's actually like a mirror. The seeds are in the mirror, and then the seed opens and they're reflected in the mirror.

Something like that. Okay? So it's a little tricky.

It's not like a bag with peas in it or something.

[Speaker 3]
Okay?

[Speaker 1]
I mean, that's how people think of it, but it's not like that. He's taking on the appearance that comes out of the seed. And by the way, it's a very appropriate and important segue to Middle Way.

$100. Huh? To Lower Middle Way?

Yeah, I know you were asleep in the last 20 minutes. The luminous images? Close.

He said part of the stuff. Give the $100 to yourself. Yeah, this is a very appropriate segue to...

I mean, what the Mind-Only School is struggling with is where do these luminous images come out? Where do they come from? Is there a refrigerator in your mind where these come out of?

And where does the refrigerator itself come out of? We cover all those questions in DCI, but those of you who weren't there, I'll have to go through Tsongkhapa instead. All right.

That would be problematic right now. Yeah, there'd be a problem if there wasn't any handy space for the seeds to be there, overarching seeds for an overarching awareness to watch yourself change from good to bad or bad to good. Because if it were just changing from bad to good, you wouldn't be really aware of it.

You wouldn't see a change. You'd be in that mind. No witness mind.

All right. Next. Okay.

Hector.

[Speaker 2]
Yatar. Yankung Xi. Nampal Che.

Padmena Chichir. Chichir. Lukimong Nyong.

[Speaker 1]
Nice catch.

[Speaker 2]
Nyongwa. Mirongzena. Shena.

Okay, yay.

[Speaker 1]
Thank you. More torture. Moral?

More on that. Yeah, if there was no foundation consciousness, then why? Lukimong is Mirong.

Yeah, why is it inappropriate for us to have some kind of bodily experience? Why is it that if there's no foundation consciousness, it draws into question the possibility of an awareness of your body? Okay, so he's just starting a fight.

Nobody said those. What's wrong with not having experiences in your body if you don't have a foundation consciousness? And Hector was begging to read this longer.

[Speaker 2]
Okay. Yatar. Yeah.

Shik. Shik. Tsu.

Tsun. Tsun. Mayim.

Sam. Sam. Tse.

Tse. Tse.

[Speaker 1]
Tse.

[Speaker 2]
I am eating fish. I am eating meat. Meat.

Meat. Meat. Meat.

Good. We will. We will.

We will. We will. We will.

We will. We will eat. Eat.

Good talk. Good talk. Chumwa.

Chumwa. Dung. Meepar.

Yangmi. Wrong. Sorry, this is torturous.

De. De. I'm used to it.

Don't worry. De. De.

Decher. Yang. Gunchi.

Mm-hmm. Nampar ship. Nampar ship.

Yodo. Yodo. Shiso.

Shiso. Yep. Excellent.

Pass. Pass. Thank you.

Goodbye.

[Speaker 1]
Bye-bye. Gashi kyu means, some people would say... Yeah.

Some people would say, well, suppose you have a tsushin state of mind and a tsushin mayimbei state of mind. Suppose you have some nice things in your mind and some not so nice things. Yeah, you have an appropriate state of mind and you have an inappropriate state of mind.

Or, let's say you have a nabar topa that accursed Jason. Subsequently? Yeah, or let's say you have later thoughts about earlier thoughts.

Or even let's say your mind is samma bhatti. Nam, sam, shak, in meditation, bhatti. Is in a state of deep meditation.

Or, I don't care, you could say nyabar ma sharpa. Or not, every other state of mind. Yeah, so to be in a state of mind, to be in a state of meditation, or come out of a state of meditation, to be in a good place mentally and then go to a bad place mentally, to have ideas, to think about things, all of these would be marung.

[Speaker 2]
Inappropriate, wrong.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, if you say there's no foundation consciousness. There has to be a background state of mind running, or you couldn't have all these things. Okay?

Nama-nasa-mama-dera-jungwa. All of that great... All of those various things.

Yeah, that great variety of mental events takes place. Migpar yang miring te. They'd also be wrong, things you couldn't perceive.

Yeah, yeah. You couldn't be aware of the wide variation of states of mind, many variations he's mentioned, if kunshi met. If kunshi didn't exist.

They'd share kunshi yet. Therefore, kunshi has to exist. Okay?

Because there's such a variety of states of mind, it proves there must be a background consciousness, or else it wouldn't be coherent. There'd just be thoughts flashing around. There'd be no one to observe the changes.

Okay? Now, who can tell me what the she-so means? I can.

Tim said it. Tim said what? So who said?

It's a quotation. It flags it as a quotation. Now, unfortunately, Tibetan has a closing quotation mark, but not an opening quotation mark.

So the safest thing to do is to go to the God Bless AL database and look for something from the sentence which is towards the end. Because you don't know where it starts. See what I mean?

So if I'm going to look for this quotation in the database, I'll go right in front of the ending quotation mark. There's no opening quotation mark. And then I'll work backwards and see how long the quotation lasts.

That's something weird near the end, right?

[Speaker 2]
That's another story.

[Speaker 1]
Well, know this, that the great scholars of our lineage are also great debaters. And oftentimes they have learned a classic in the debate ground verbally, and they never saw it written. That happened to me a lot.

And so then suddenly, one day you're reading a scripture, and you say, oh my God, I heard that in the debate ground, but that isn't exactly how the guy quoted it. He was wrong. Yeah, it's usually three years later.

You go to find him to say that's not what the quotation said. That's the opposite, and he's already become a cook. That's what happens if you fail.

If you drop out of the education course, it's a direct route to being a cook. And those teapots are, you need a ladder to get in them, to clean them. That's why so many guys stick it out.

All right, there's the quotation from, where is it? I think it's Chittaputra. I think so.

It's a commentary to the Abhidharma Samuccaya, which is Stanley's new text. He finished an older Abhidharma text, and now he's on a mind-only Abhidharma text by the older brother. There's some constant quoting him a lot.

Yeah, we see it in two different commentaries. I think they're both by Dina. All right, here's another.

Anyway, they don't debate it much more. They just say there wouldn't be any background awareness of all these variations in the flow of your thoughts if there was no kunshi. Then they go on to the seventh argument.

Who's going to read that? So the whole thing then is a quotation? No, just the last paragraph.

I cut it out as a paragraph for you. It starts with nambarikpa dhamma. I think.

Normally I put it in 16 point for you, but I was lazy or something.

[Speaker 3]
Krishna, how do you find where the beginning, You read backwards.

[Speaker 1]
You read backwards in the ALL database. You find it in the ALL. You find the end of the sentence in the ALL database, and then you read it in the database backwards until they match.

Until their opening matches. And it's not that difficult. Once you get used to it, it's pretty easy.

But there's dialect differences, and there's tenure differences. So we just input, John just finished the Nartang tenure, which is 210 volumes. That's 210,000 pages.

That's 1.6 million pages in English. And they typed it in in their spare time as extra bonus stuff. And I'm happy to report that Oscar Mill in Guadalajara has just finished splitting out the 3,700 texts separately.

Because their input together, their input together in an average of about 15 per volume. And one book starts, one book ends and the next book starts on the same line. There's just two little things.

So you have to be really good. And he's finished 3,700 books. And it went to the master of all masters to check him, which is named Smith, something Smith.

Wordsmith is checking that. And if I was the director of ALL, I would immediately start trying to finish the second conger that we're working on. Because we have someone who knows how to split it while he's still young.

Really, it takes a couple of years. So he did a great job. We should give him a hand.

And a classmate of mine from Princeton helped him from my day. We played rock and roll together. He became a computer programmer.

So he helped automate it. And that's been a big help. He wrote the first input programs 37 years ago at the center.

He wrote, and we still use them. Okay. Anyway, who's going to read?

You can see him play rock and roll on May 9th at the farm. They've limited us to a half hour. Anyway, mostly Aisha and Lindsay is singing.

Do you know you're singing? Okay. Simone, do you want to read?

Anyway, you're welcome to come to that. May 9th. The first half hour of the music is going to be really good.

And then it's going to deteriorate into country folk or something.

[Speaker 3]
I don't know.

[Speaker 1]
You got to stretch out that key because it has an S on it. And it's important here. It's very important in this sentence.

You got to say it. I said no. Like what you say to your boyfriend.

Key. Now we're moving on to the seventh of our eight arguments. Yeah, there's eight arguments total.

You should be rejoicing because I think when we finish these eight, we're pretty much done with the book. It's been 10 years exactly. It's been 10 years exactly.

And just for your interest, we're going to go on to Jetsun Kappa has 252 compositions, I think. And his collective works, whichever one is, usually they're carved in priority. And the first book in his collective works is his commentary to the Bodhisattva Vows.

So I was thinking Word could work on that. It's an extraordinary, beautiful, deep analysis of the Bodhisattva Vows. So that's where we're going next.

If we don't die before that. Yeah, the seventh argument is, kunshi mena, if there isn't a foundation consciousness, then mirung, it would be wrong for nyom jok ni, for someone to be able to be in the two types of deep meditation. Dushin, mepen nyom jok, and koppen nyom jok.

Yeah, the cessation meditation and the meditation where you have no brain? No. No capacity of discrimination.

Okay, good. So anyway, these deep states of mind, where almost you lose your conscious mind, would not be possible if you didn't have a background mind running to come back to. If the surface state of mind was the only one, then in those deep states of meditation, they're called mind disappearing meditations, but technically the mind is still running.

But there has to be something running in the background. If there was no foundation consciousness, you would die. You would die during those states of meditation.

Mena, nyom jok ni, that'd be inappropriate. Itta de mena. Yeah.

De is kunshi. Okay, yeah. So in that case, if that kunshi didn't exist, if there was no background state of mind, then nyom jok ni la nyom jok has tense.

Then if you had entered into either of those two meditations, then any person who had entered into those two meditations, then their mind or their consciousness would have tossed out their body. Pour is an unusual word for discard, like a potato chip bag or something. Pour wa.

So the mind would have pour wa, the body would have pour wa the consciousness, and they would die. Those people would die. Once they got into a deep meditation, they would die.

Therefore, during those meditations, the tsok drul ngak. Yeah, so that's ridiculous. So therefore, when you're in that meditation, the six collections of consciousness, or the collection of six consciousnesses would cease.

Yeah, all schools accept the group of six consciousnesses, mental, eye, ear, nose, tongue, and skin, and mind. And then all schools accept those six. Only the mind-only school says there's a seventh and an eighth, one of which is, the eighth one is foundation consciousness.

So if you don't believe in foundation consciousness, then when you get to a state of consciousness where the six have shut down, that person would die. If there's kunshin me. If there's no kunshin.

That's the mind-only schools defending themselves. What time is it? We got nine minutes going on.

Okay, all right. She's trying to escape. Megan, do another one.

Okay. You're getting good. I'm impressed.

She pre-nasals that first one.

[Speaker 3]
Don't know. Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
If you... Dunpa is a verb word. If you show...

If you teach... that there's no kyepa... There's no difference...

between those states of mind and shiwa... between those states of mind and death... then you gyelwa against...

then you contradicted... the statement... that this nabhishepa...

that this consciousness... does not ndepa from the loop. It does not go beyond the body.

Yeah. If you say there's no... foundation consciousness...

then you... then what you're saying is... that the person dies...

and the sixth consciousness stops. But actually there's a famous quotation... which says...

that consciousness does not leave the body. Your consciousness has not left the body. There's a famous line that says that.

I used to go through the Kangyur and Tengyur... page by page looking for this. Thousands of pages...

to find one quotation. Now you can find it... with ALL you can find it in...

maybe six seconds or something. You can go through... You can go through...

4,600 volumes... in less than... in about five seconds.

It's unbelievable. Actually our translation effort is... we're going to Xi'an by the way...

if you want to come. It's April. Xi'an is the old capital of the Tang Dynasty...

which used to be called... Chang'an. That's where Shenzong Tower is.

That's where Shenzong translated the classics of Buddhism... and changed Chinese culture forever. I think...

it's amazing to think that they did what we did... but without ALL. I bet Shenzong would...

his mouth would water... if he saw what we could do. To honor him...

he walked for 17 years through India... to learn his stuff. He survived a 17-year walk through India.

We're going to honor him... and go there and honor him. We'll be having DCI Level 7.

We'll be teaching the Diamond Cutting Day... as a business course. Who is he quoting?

Master Basabandhu. He's quoting Master Basabandhu... our commentator.

Who is who? The younger brother of Master Sangye. Well, Tsongkhapa basically.

He quotes an interesting book. There's a very rare book... by Basabandhu...

where he explains the Wheel of Life. No one has ever tried to teach it... or translate it.

Sugeng's book, right? It's Sugeng's new book. We're well into it.

There's no Sanskrit survives. It's extremely difficult. The younger brother of Basabandhu...

comes out of the closet... which is very cool. He reveals himself as a mind-only master.

He explains the Wheel of Life... from the mind-only point of view. So mind-only people like him...

because he's a convert. Late convert. He said, lu le man de.

You don't die. You don't die when you go into those meditations. Therefore, there must be a...

By the way, the moment when he comes out... we just reached it... in Sugeng's book.

We've been working on it for about five years. It is dramatic... to see him step out of the closet.

You can see the very sentence... in which he stepped out of the closet. I spent 12 years on his other book.

I never saw him step out. It's kind of cool. All right, next.

He's like crazy. Do you want to just read? Because we don't have much time.

Yeah, I'll read. Grandpa starts on his stories... and we never finish reading.

It's okay. Kelte. Iki nampa shepa mi selwa thang chepe.

Nam she thang drelwar min yor ro shena. You still have an Iki nampa shepa... but it's mi selwa.

You still have a mental consciousness... but it's unclear. It lacks clarity.

This is being said by whom? Someone who supports kunshi... or someone who doesn't support kunshi?

Someone who doesn't support kunshi. Yeah, you don't need kunshi. You still have some consciousness...

it's just not very clear. That's his argument. Somebody came along and said...

just because you can go into... deep states of meditation... doesn't mean there has to be a kunshi.

Because you could have a subtle... normal mental consciousness... running in the background.

Therefore, nam she thang min drelwar... Therefore, there is no foundation consciousness. No.

You don't thawa from your normal nunshi. Oh, therefore you're not... separated from your mental consciousness.

You don't lose your normal consciousness. It just goes to a low level. You don't lose it.

Therefore, you don't need kunshi. This guy still doesn't want to buy kunshi. Okay.

We've got time for one more. If you want to read it, we'll go faster. Yeah.

Yeah, totally. Nice reading, as always. And I appreciate that you're teaching your students so well.

He's taught more people to pronounce Tibetan well... than I ever did... in his young life.

mi rung te means... the guy doesn't buy his argument. What?

He still has his normal consciousness going on. It's just at a low level. We don't buy it.

Okay. The Mainoni school guy is answering. That's wrong.

If you have number shifu... If you have a foundation consciousness... If you have even a...

No. Just if you have regular consciousness. If you have even a low level of regular consciousness...

you got other stuff necessarily. Ah, yeah. Then that always comes with other baggage.

Yeah. What is the other baggage? First of all, you'd have to have a renpa.

Contact? Contact between sun. Between those three things?

Which are? The object. The sense object.

The sense object. The sense power. And the consciousness behind.

And the awareness of the sense power. Yeah. Okay?

There'd have to be a convocation of those three. Okay? If even a low level of old consciousness...

no Mainoni... storehouse consciousness... it would have to come with those three events.

By the way... that's only true in a world... hundred dollars.

A world without our objects? I make this life so easy. I actually go broke paying it.

[Speaker 3]
In a world of luminous objects?

[Speaker 1]
That's good. Yeah. Yeah.

That argument only works in a world... where things are coming this way. The argument about the necessary contact...

between the object triggering the perception... triggering the awareness... can only take place in a civilization...

which believes that things exist out there. You see? This is a...

science viewpoint. Things exist out there and you perceive them. That's the opposite of Buddhism.

And you will learn if you hear the pot on the stove coming. Did I say honor objects question? Wait, we're getting there.

So he says... look, it's not just that you... you know, if it was just this low level of consciousness continuing...

maybe I could buy it. But according to everybody... when you have any level of consciousness...

that comes along with other baggage. First of all... what we call in the Wheel of Life...

Drupadipa... link number six... contact...

between the mind and the outer world... which assumes that world came first and then you're aware of it. You see what I mean?

Which is already a mistake. But he said, look, you wouldn't have those three things. And you wouldn't have...

and once you have any contact with the outer world... you must have two of the five heaps. You must have.

Feeling and discrimination. Feeling and discrimination. Those two mental functions must accompany all states of consciousness.

Now look, you've got all this baggage. You've got three things... object, sense power, awareness of the object.

And once you have that... you have to have feeling and discrimination. Now you've got five things.

Dushanam yupe. Therefore... it would be incorrect to call those deep meditations...

deep meditations where you shut off your... Discrimination and feeling. Discrimination and feeling.

What distinguishes those two deep meditations... what you mainly shut down... is your capacity of feeling...

and your capacity of discrimination. According to you... you're having contact with the outside world...

it always has feeling and discrimination. So therefore... it's not enough...

to have a little... bitty, bitty bit of your normal consciousness still there. Because if it was still there...

you'd pop out of the meditation. Because you'd have feeling and discrimination. Got it?

It's a cool argument. Therefore, what must exist? You've got to...

You've got to go to kung shi. Okay? chug che mi tepar gyurway che.

Your idea about... there being some low-level normal consciousness... is dumb.

Okay, got it? Now we'll go to the easy class. Cataloging?

Finding books where there aren't any. We got stuck last week. Table content.

We are cataloging books from a collection of books... and the table of contents is mistaken. So we got stuck a little bit.

I'm thinking to go at it from the back. We'll decide that in the next class. Yay!

In 15 minutes, is it? 15 minutes. 12 minutes.

See you there. Thank you. Thank you for coming.

Thank you, Geshe Michael. By the way, words... translation of...

the first translation of Mind-Only School... is the best one in the world. And I have a friend who's a Mind-Only Scholar...

for 25 years. And he saw that book and he... he like went into nirvana.

So I've got to say... he's doing a good job. No, he's still around.

What's the date? The 2nd of March. Okay.

Thank you, Geshe-la. Okay, take a little break, you guys. Especially bathroom break.

Yes. We normally have some dinner for you. It's probably on its way.

No, I'm going to have it with my honey bunny. But thank you.

[Speaker 2]
No. I have no idea.