Вордсмит — Книга 2: Трудные места школы «Ум только», занятие 73

[Speaker 4]
I'm going to start with the easiest one first. So here we go.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. Am I on? Good.

Seniors, do you have any questions? We are studying the mind-only school, and... Wait, should I unmute, or is that going to be an echo?

Okay. We're studying the mind-only school, and we're studying this extra consciousness in the mind-only school called the negative attitude, and it's the source of all your problems according to mind-only, and we are going very deep into it. I think this is the deepest presentation in the universe on it.

I haven't really even mentioned anywhere else. So, let's go. Question one.

How are the four negative emotions that surround the negative consciousness ... Oh, we lost sound.

[Speaker 2]
You see that they look at the foundation consciousness, and they say, that's me.

[Speaker 1]
That's how the negative consciousness is powered. So where do those four negativities that always go into the desire and the rest, where do they get their negativity from first? Dennis has an answer.

[Speaker 2]
So, I was in a negative state of mind, and then it gives that next, in that next moment, it works.

[Speaker 1]
That's definitely not wrong. That's never not wrong. I'll give you the answer, because it's difficult.

Here we go. No, it's very hard. I don't actually expect anyone to remember.

They are powered by the klesic nature of the negative consciousness. I have to use this funny word because ... Anybody know, I think they know what klesic is in western Chinese?

What did you say, Kevin? Yeah, exactly. Yay!

Okay, question two. What is the ramification for those negative emotions if you were to stop the klesic-ness of the negative consciousness?

[Speaker 3]
I'm sorry to interrupt. We're just having some microphone issues. I think we hear the tech table rather than you.

Thanks, Timmy.

[Speaker 2]
I might suggest if you guys get on Zoom there and we just turn off the microphones and you just have the class there on your computers.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Hi, how are you? I'm well, thank you.

What are the ramifications for those negative emotions if you were to stop the klesic-ness? I was wondering the same thing. Go ahead, Hasso.

... They'd be utterly wiped out. The answer is I don't know.

Let's see the answer. It's really hard, but it's what we covered, so I had to make homework out of it. Here's what Jason Koppa said as best I could translate.

It is illogical that the negative consciousness has its own essence, which is itself klesic, because then if you were to stop those negative emotions, its essence would be utterly wiped out. Don't ask further. Utterly wiped out?

It's kind of hard. Or utterly nonexistent? I don't know.

Completely not there? I don't know. Why is it so problematic?

Because it's preventing me from doing it. Because pizza is waiting. Hasso has the answer.

Go Hasso, anything.

[Speaker 2]
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[Speaker 1]
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[Speaker 2]
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[Speaker 1]
It is something like that. I love your answer. I cannot repeat that.

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Yeah, and what's the common unusual expression that he's addressing? I'll give you the first part. ...

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comically positive states of mind. And then there's neutral states of mind. And there's two kinds of neutral states of mind.

Some of them are obstacles, and some of them are not obstacles. So we're trying to figure out what's the status of certain negative states of mind for negative states of mind inside messed up consciousness, or adjacent to it. Yeah.

Okay. So basically, according to my knowledge school, you have eight total consciousnesses, you have the normal six that everybody talks about in the Heart Sutra, migme, nama me, na me, che me, lu me, yi me. And then you've got seven, which is nyungi, messed up consciousness.

And it looks at consciousness number eight, kurji, which is called foundation consciousness, or in storehouse consciousness. And it looks at it, and it misunderstands it. What's in consciousness number seven, according to my knowledge school, it's basically a refrigerator with all your seeds in it.

So the negative state of mind, number seven, looks at the storehouse consciousness number eight, and it watches seeds opening inside of that consciousness, for example, into blue, and it misinterprets them as being outside of it. It feels as though it's external. According to my knowledge school, when you see blue, you're just looking at your own mind, you're looking at your storehouse consciousness.

Then what's the classic reply? Why do all people feel like blue is outside? Because you did it before.

And it's a mistake you've repeated for time with no beginning. It has no separate source. Why do you feel there's an outside world?

Because you felt that way yesterday. Why did you feel that yesterday? The day before?

Yeah, and they say there's no beginning to that. And by the way, I'll give $100, let's see if they wake up. If anyone can explain why, except you, even though you got all this hassle with kids, can you explain why that would be a problem to think that things are outside?

Why would that be a problem? Why is the Mind-Only School so focused on stopping that perception? To study the Mind-Only School means to learn why things are not outside that you thought were outside.

What's the point? Because we think we can affect things by affecting outside things? No.

$100, come on. That's supposed to stimulate your thought process. So you don't think they're self-existing?

You're getting there. But I mean, you can say that to anything. Let's say you proposed.

And you got married, and then you're in the kitchen and you were having an argument. Okay, also.

[Speaker 2]
So the whole purpose of understanding that things are inside the mind, according to Mind-Only School, so you don't yell back.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, or you see whose fault it was. You gave a $50 answer.

[Speaker 2]
Yay, that's good.

[Speaker 1]
Well, actually, Kelly, okay. She's like, you don't have any money. That never stopped me before.

Yeah, okay. Yeah, I mean, if you understand that the people who irritate you are inside of your own mind, how can you get upset? How can you get upset?

Okay, that's the whole Mind-Only School in a nutshell. Okay, all right. So we're talking about, now we're talking about what kinds of state of mind, what different states of mind are stored in, are there present in number seven?

What is number seven? Negative consciousness. Yeah, it's the misunderstanding of the storehouse.

Okay, but are there any other negative thoughts in there? Who are the bad friends in that number seven? And Hasso says there's four.

Okay, there's four separate kleshas or negative states of mind in the messed up consciousness, which is misunderstanding the storehouse consciousness, and that's the only reason you can get upset at other people. Okay, and what's the status of those four? Okay, let's say you get up, you're angry, or you have desire for something.

Why does that cause extra trouble? And how could you get rid of that? Okay.

They also live in number seven, four different kinds of, and sometimes it seems like our author is tending towards calling them ma dip lu ma den. They are neutral and do not cause a blockage. Yeah, they're karmically neutral, and they don't cause you later trouble.

And there's karmically neutral things which do cause you later trouble. He's claiming that anger, desire, desire to that live in the messed up state of mind. They are, they are neutral.

Okay, he's claiming they are karmically neutral. So we're exploring that. And why is he claiming that?

Okay. All right. Got it.

Yeah. Okay. Here is got the four.

Yeah, word translated. Yeah. Maripa misunderstanding power, literally view but here wrong view.

Not guilt, pride and desire. I'm not. You want to read it?

Yeah. Yeah, they are not linked to what possesses negativity, nor do they possess negativity themselves. It is due to this that the result of becoming a listener foe destroyer is not blocked and is also not virtuous.

Yeah, they don't prevent a person from reaching the result of the lower path, the listener path. Okay. Nirvana.

They're not gewa. They're not virtue. They're not good karma, but they also don't prevent you from reaching lower nirvana.

They don't stop you from reaching your lower. They're not. They're not bad karma, but they did.

They do. They and they don't. They don't.

They're called drip. My dripping with him. They are not.

They don't create an obstacle. They're not an obstacle. They're negative, but they're not enough.

So I got it right. Mostly right. Good guy.

Next. The next one. I don't know.

Sure. Yeah, yeah, sure. I can start.

I can start. I'll shift down. Okay, let's let's all shift down.

I'll shift down. Okay. Yeah, right here.

I'm good. Okay. But hi.

Hi. Nice to see you.

[Speaker 2]
All right.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. Okay. No.

Yeah. Okay, let's look at the state. Stay.

Let's look at the transit. Kelte. If you're chunks him, Papa.

Yeah. If you're a if you're a person who's seen emptiness directly, and you're also a bodhisattva, do you have to be? No, no.

And that's a big point in the higher middle. You don't have to have compassion, ultimate compassion to see emptiness directly. chance and Papa Shukyana.

Now I'm not gonna say when you're in deep meditation. You can listen to talk, you can directly perceive that two kinds of dogma, two kinds of selflessness. What are the two kinds of no self nature of things and of people?

Yeah, of things and of people, but the thing things are parts of people, the parts of they're not stuff in general, although they wouldn't include that. All right. So, so get in your mind the image of a person who has seen emptiness.

They are a bodhisattva, they do a bodhicitta, they did do the Einstein Mercury thing. Okay. And, and then they're, they're seeing the two kinds of a lack of self nature to them and to their parts.

Okay. Tongway. Dagme Panyi.

So it must be that these four random negative emotions in the negative state of mind, number seven, cannot be acting as a gate. As a blocker. Yeah, they did not prevent this bodhisattva from seeing reality.

Okay, those four wimpy negative emotions. Okay. In that are also in mind number seven.

The big negative emotions in state number seven is looking at the storehouse consciousness and thinking it's outside. Those, the things that ripen there are outside. Okay.

And then that makes them insensitive to how they are creating their own trouble. Like with their partner. Okay.

Dagme Panyi. Nyi tongwa la gey chepe kansak tu dzinpa dang, chosu dzinpa. Those two habits are ngun du ming gyur.

They don't, are unmanifest? They don't, yeah, they don't come about? Yeah.

They still have these four negative thoughts, but they have seen the two kinds of lack of self nature directly. So in their Aryas and their bodhisattvas, but they still have these four states in mind. In their seventh consciousness.

Okay. Therefore, and here's a huge conclusion. Therefore, those four states of mind are vimala.

Yeah, Aryas vimala. Art impure? They are not mala.

They are not impurities. They are not major impurities. You can have mild negative states of mind in the part of your mind which misunderstands your storehouse.

You can have mild states of negative mind, negative states of mind. They don't prevent you from being a bodhisattva. They don't prevent you from seeing, in this school, the two kinds of emptiness directly.

Okay. All right. Yay.

Now let's start the class. Okay. Thank you.

Okay. Thank you. Okay.

Yeah. Oh, I gotta get mine up. You must be what verse I'm gonna give you some word in search for Okay, good.

So we're gonna read. We're gonna have somebody read. Okay.

You want them to come up? Somebody come up. You can sit here.

They can sit here. Okay. I can move on.

Okay. Also, come on. Awesome.

Hey, okay. Start here. And if you ever get to the end, down to here.

Use the cursor.

[Speaker 3]
Start here.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. And we're it's gonna correct you. Grandpa's coming.

You share screen again. Oh, I'm sorry. Are you on zoom?

We didn't share this thing. Oh, man, this is gonna be a problem. Okay.

Okay. Is that better? Yeah.

Thanks.

[Speaker 2]
We pay that young don't sound like translate word.

[Speaker 1]
On that same point, it also says in the secret meaning. There's a great mind only test called the secret meaning. John Brady found it.

We have it. It's it's in the tenure. And we don't know who wrote it.

Maybe Russell Bundy, but some cop is in love with it. And words in love. We're translating.

Okay. You got to do the question. Okay.

Awesome.

[Speaker 2]
Okay. Check chart. Check chart.

That may bunny. At home way. Nessu gear pay.

Marik pa. Kangin pa. Tela.

Tene. The pack pay see key. Eee.

Yip, Yip. Oh, yeah. Yekla.

Pa. Moodle do. What do you do draw watch Ken key.

Drew do it to talk pot. Sheen.

[Speaker 1]
Do she do Nhu Nhu Mon or Nhu Mon SONG PA CHEN GYIS YID DANG TSUNG PAR BSTAN PA'I THA BA GCIG CHAR CHOD DANG GANG ZAG THU RAB TU TOG PAR BYED PA CHUNG NGO This is a very difficult text, but Tsongkhapa is enamored with it. He loves it. So we don't have any choice.

So let's take it up to the top here. So let's go slow. GCIG CHAR Simultaneously Yeah, DAG MED PA'I GNYIS KA The two types of selflessness Yeah, now here's an interesting thing.

The version, the carving we have says THONG. What's the mantra? DONG TSIG DONG TSIG You don't see.

Okay? And you have to deal with that. In my mind, DONG TSIG makes sense and TSIG doesn't make sense.

Okay? So I went looking and I found the negative in a couple of carvings.

[Speaker 2]
Okay?

[Speaker 1]
So you got to have this many, many, 50 years of practice where you that somebody mistakenly uncarved, they took out a piece, a letter from the carving. Okay? So I would say MANTONG DONG TSIG Because the MA MA, they probably messed it up because it's two MA's again.

It's GNYIS KA MA DONG TSIG Yeah, but there's another MA here. So that's why they GCIG CHAR Oh, it's MA O DONG TSIG Yeah, yeah. Okay.

We're saying that the next word starts with MA, which is the negative. And maybe they just got confused because there were two MA's in it. MA MA.

Okay. So they don't see. And that makes sense because we're talking about MARNIKPA.

GCIG CHAR Right. Misunderstanding. Yeah.

And DNA on that MARNIKPA. Based upon or supported by. Yeah.

You THOKPA without an S. GCIG CHAR You make up in your mind some nonsense. Yeah.

So the pronunciation is, say THOKPA. THOKPA It could be spelled R-T-O-G-S, and it could be spelled R-T-O-G. R-T-O-G-S means to realize something that you never realized before.

R-T-O-G means to think something which is mistaken. They are completely the opposite. They are pronounced the same.

Okay? Yeah. Completely the same.

Okay. So here is THOKPA, which is without an S. GCIG CHAR Messed up.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
You get the wrong impression that the C of a THOKPA. Yeah. The length of a rope.

That YIP. GCIG CHAR That shape or outline. And then he has misspelled DREWEL as DREWEL, the harbor.

GCIG CHAR Yeah. Snake for emanation. Yeah.

The word for emanation body is DREWEL. The word for a snake is DREWEL and they put DREWEL. And that's a very common error.

So as a translator, you have to know the common errors. It's a tiny, little bar in a multiple-stack letter. Okay.

And you have to just know that. Okay. So MSTEKA, length of .

. . Of length of rope to be a snake.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
DREWEL, DREWEL DO DREWEL DO RAB TU THOKPA SHEN this kind of really messed up way of looking at things. Yeah, gross error. NYON MONGS PA CHEN GYI YID DANG GSUNGS PA BSTAN PA'I It's like things that are linked with the negative consciousness.

Yeah, okay. This GSUNGS then means linked, when states of mind are linked, okay? They are linked in five different ways.

But it's two states of mind linked inside. They are linked. LTA BA GCIG CHAG CHOD DANG GANG SANGGYI THU RAB DU LTOG PAR BYED PA BYUNG ROL They see the...

This will bring about this erroneous way of looking at things, which will simultaneously occur with both how things and people are self-existent. Yeah, good. And it doesn't say dark, but it means dark.

So this will lead you to make the mistake of thinking that the person or the parts of the person are coming from their own side, which leads to problems in the... Kitchen. Kitchen.

And you got to always take it back to real life in your mind. You can't go reading this stuff year after year and don't apply it to your real life, okay? He's talking about getting upset in the kitchen.

If you didn't do that this week, you're not married. Okay? Okay, you weren't, you weren't.

All right? So I think that that's what happened. Okay, who's gonna read next?

Omar Hussle. Okay. Oh, thank you.

[Speaker 2]
Okay. GCIG DANG LENG DEB LAM KHYER NA NI CHAG PA PAK PA PAK PA NGEN THU GANG ZAG LA DAG MED PA MTHONG BA'I PHYIR GANG ZAG TU DRON GDOG PA MED PAR YID DE PHYIR NAM DRON GDOG PA MED PAR YID DE PHYIR NAM DE PHYIR NAM LA MI ZEL BA DANG DRO GDOG PA'I NGO BO NYID THI MUG DANG LTA BA DANG GSUNGS PAR LDAN PAR BYUNG Yeah, and then sooner or later you have to study and you have to...

[Speaker 1]
There should be a separate course in the four classical schools of Indian Buddhism, not Tibetan. What they call MTS is this. They call it self, lack of self, anatman, anatman.

And then in the second school, they distinguish two kinds of lack of self. By the time you get to the third school, there are two kinds of lack of self that they see. And only one of them is emptiness.

So in the fifth school and the lower fourth school, there are degrees of emptiness. And people who don't have bodhicitta, people who don't have love for other people, cannot see emptiness in their school, in the lower middle school. They cannot see real emptiness.

They can see lesser degrees of nature-less, but they cannot see emptiness, okay? So that's reference here. We're gonna talk about it here.

JI LTEN LAS BDE PA'I LAM In the path that is beyond the world. Which is basically understandings of true nature of things. It's called the path beyond the world.

Like just being a good person, it doesn't qualify here. That's called path still in the world. Then there's a path beyond the world where you are patient because you realize the person's coming from you, okay?

That's a different level. And there's many, many levels of morality where you're just nice to people because you're supposed to be. And you don't get angry because you're not supposed to get upset.

But the higher level is you don't get angry because you realize it's you. You're looking at the reflection in the mirror. That's a higher level of patience.

And by the way, the lower levels of patience will always break down. They will always break down. Hurt that person twice as much.

Hurt that person three times as much. Use a knife. Use a gun.

They will break. Their patience will break. A person understands that the aggressor is coming from them.

Their patience only gets stronger the worse the other person acts. It's very strange. It's very cool.

All right, anyway. DANG NI LAM LA SKYE NA NI, PAPA NYIN THE Yeah, an Arya who is a listener, like a Hinayana. Yeah, which means they only saw our Kosaki dog.

They only saw like a self of people. Yeah, the only people don't have a self-nature. And they don't understand that the parts don't have self-nature.

Yeah. Okay. That's why they're called listeners.

That's why they're called self-made Buddha. And that's why they're not called bodhisattvas. Okay.

They can see that. They concentrate on dopamine. They do not give additional existence to people.

What would be the overrating of the reality of another person? Just called drone dog here. Overrating.

They're mad because there's traffic. Yeah. He didn't have a good dinner.

He didn't eat on the way home. So he's upset. That's called drone dog.

That's putting something on somebody that doesn't belong on them. He's not upset because he didn't have dinner. He's upset because you were upset yesterday and you see him that way today.

It's always your fault. Did he not get dinner? Yes.

Did that make him upset? No. Okay.

Anyway, drone dog means over overrate. The reality of something. Mepa.

Yeah, you do not do that. They don't do that anymore. Chuna mommy, so I don't.

They can't. They're unclear on the parts of the person.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
And what he's doing in the last two sentences, he's referring to cheeky dog and sucky dog as chewing gums. So instead of saying the lack of nature to things, the lack of nature to people, it's the people and things. And he knows, you know, he's talking about emptiness.

Yep. Okay. That's what's happening here.

He said in the last paragraph. Yeah, exactly. Mepa.

Drone. Yeah, because that kind of adding to things as the essence of stupidity or ignorance. Ignorance whose essence is drone.

See what I mean? Go backwards. Yeah.

Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah.

So he's going to get that state of mind. They're still talking about the negative state number seven. What's the name of Tsongkhapa's most, the most famous book ever written on the mind?

Yi Dang Kun Shi. Yeah. Which means?

Mind and foundation consciousness. Yeah. Mind and storehouse.

Mind and storehouse mind. He didn't say negative. He said mind and storehouse.

It's a famous debate. Okay. All right.

Who's going to read the next part? I don't know, but not Hustle. You want to choose somebody, Hustle?

He wants you to pick on someone. Well, you pick him. Go ahead.

Mike. Yay, Mike. Thanks, Hustle.

Me and Mike are both from Pennsylvania. Go ahead. I thought you were from Texas.

[Speaker 3]
Perfect.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. Yeah, he's been really good. I don't know.

Some of these people are frustrating. There's something wrong. No more pretend Mayimba.

It is not possessed of negativity or something. It doesn't have- I think they're still talking about the four states of mind. I think- Well, he says they dock, so those aren't- Okay.

Not really. Negative. But they are desire, pride, et cetera.

In this case. And they don't get you from nentuki debo. They don't stop you from reaching the result of a listener foe destroyer?

Yeah, which probably means a reference to becoming an arhat, in a lower path, on the lower path. They reached what, but not what? They reached arhatness, but not bodhisattvaness?

Yeah. No, they reached nirvana, but not buddhahood. In this system, okay?

Because they don't see ultimate emptiness. But they can still reach nirvana. They can stop their personal suffering, but not the suffering of emptiness.

Mayimba chir dang, depe jebu gyur yinpe chir. Because the cause for that result is desire? They are causes for a desirable result.

What's depe? Seems to be these four negative states. Mildly negative states?

It's getting weird. Okay, gyur yinpe chir. And not only that, they are topa chepas for nyang and nedem.

They're also ways to achieve nirvana. Therefore, they are not depe. They are not virtue.

Doesn't that bother you? I'm bothered because I have my topa or nyang, and they're depe. It's kind of weird.

You know, he's saying that these miscellaneous negative thoughts in your main negative mind, which misunderstands the seeds, right? That the miscellaneous negative thoughts floating around in there, if the carving's correct, they help you achieve nirvana. I don't know.

I might want to see another. Could the dedak be something else, Ken? Well, we've already seen in this quotation problems.

We've already seen problems with it. Could it be the two types of selflessness? They couldn't even get the author.

Sorry. Could it be the two types of selflessness instead? The dedak?

Then you could say maybe they're not virtuous. That's what we do when we get stuck with things. Let's keep going.

Everything will get clear. Then we hit the end of the book. No, then we hope the students forget about the last paragraph.

Okay, who's reading? You want Mike? Mike.

Yeah. Yeah. Chö nyamongpa chenma yinpa la chakpa dang, nga gyal dak dang yang songpar den no she dang.

Yeah, and by the way, if you go looking for these, excerpt, it's actually three separate excerpts. And they have to, so they don't necessarily tie together logically. And that's just something you got to learn.

In the Mixed Net System, we use the database. We always check, make sure the thing was carved right. And in this case, it's three separate sections that were glued together.

And they may not flow. Okay, you have to expect they may not flow. Okay, here's the second part.

Can you, you want to translate it for me? Sure, go ahead. Is there any piece above that?

I don't think so. Yeah, okay. Thank you.

Chö nyamongpa chenma yinpa. So when we talk about the parts of, or perhaps things, they are not negativities. So this might support my deidakpi.

Yeah, okay. Yeah, we don't know yet. Okay.

They are not. Negative. They are not negative entities.

Yeah, they're not negative things. But they're, this could be but or even, I don't know. But they're also linked.

But they're also linked to. I think maybe this is even though they are linked to desire, pride, and the rest of those negative states of mind. Yeah, so now it's some kind of state of mind linked with desire and pride, which is not necessarily an optical.

Okay. And now we have a third quotation, which Mike also will see. One more, Mike.

[Speaker 3]
jang chub sempa jang chub tu yong su ngo wang ngepay rikchen shik yinpar gyur na ni ne kyap dena dak medpa nika nyom sumpe sakpa medpa ko na jung lo shesam Yeah, and also this is going to be hard to read properly because it's a translation itself.

[Speaker 1]
That was done about 600 years, 700 years ago. Okay, so jang chub sempa. Bodhisattva.

Jang chub tu yong su ngo wang. Who has, who is completely, who's a Buddha? Who's dedicated to enlightenment?

Well, he says he's a Buddha who's dedicated to it. And then he explains it. In this case, dedicated to Buddhahood means they are fixed in that type.

They are bodhisattva type. I see. So they're, you know, it's like they've been dedicated to Buddhahood long ago.

I see. Rikchen shik yinpar gyur na ni. If you are a person like that, you know, ne kyap dena.

And temporarily? If there's a temporary? No, just at that point.

In that situation? Yeah, that, yeah. Da me pa nye kyang nge sum de sampa me pa kwa na jung.

It is only the case that you can see some kind of impurity directly? Lack of purity. Oh, sorry, lack of impurity.

Lack of impurity, okay. Lack of impurity directly because those are the two types of. Selflessness.

Selflessness, yeah. They have these four mild negative states of mind and they don't stop them from seeing emptiness, okay? Something like that.

That's cool. We're discussing states of mind that are in the seven state of mind, which are, they have a weird status because they're not really causing you trouble. Although that's the definition of equanimity.

Hmm. And then, I don't know if you can see the screen. Can you see the screen?

Yeah, we went and got the three quotations, okay? And then that's how we knew it was three separate quotations. So you shouldn't expect there to be any logic bridged between the three necessary.

That's why I put a shay on the end of each line. Yeah. Yeah.

And there's the first quote, you know, it's long. So what do you think this shu is again? You think it's just entity or thing?

Or do you think it's shu dak? Yeah, entities, yeah. I don't think it's, yeah.

I don't think it's, it could be, well, what I'm saying is in this section, sometimes he's referring to the self nature of things and the self nature of people as things and people. Yeah, we're talking about the chu here, Venerable Chunzong. I was curious whether it just means things or if it just, it goes back to that lack of self nature.

But it's, I don't know. To save time, he's not repeating chu kyi dak tu dzinpa and kang sak gi dak tu dzinpa. He's not repeating, holding to things as existing from their own side and holding to people from existing in their own side.

He gets, he starts using a shorthand. He says things and people. And then it gets really confusing.

He just says things and people. What he means is the mistake of holding to things and people as existing from their own side, as in the case of an argument in the kitchen. So it's important and it's not some philosophy.

It's something you could use the minute after you read it. And make a prediction. There's a funny karma with these texts.

As soon as you talk about a fight in the kitchen, you have one that night. All right. Something important.

Okay. I'm going to bed right now. And here's the third quotation, okay?

All right, who's going to read next? Not Mike. Not Mike.

Mike, pick somebody. Gibson. Nice reading, Mike.

Yeah, good job, Mike. Good job. Okay.

All right. All right. po na sanggye kyi sa la yi she kyi dakim jidak bu shen na Yeah, now, what does that mean, Wern?

You may ask, what's that mean, Gibson? You may ask...

[Speaker 2]
po na sanggye kyi sa la In the level of the Buddha?

[Speaker 1]
At the level of a Buddha. Yeah. What is the dakim for a yi she?

The beneficial condition? Yeah, the boss condition. The condition which is contained by any particular entity.

Well, in this case, it means included into the same person. So what's the cause for the awareness of thoughts at the level of a Buddha? Mm-hmm.

And there's a very, very interesting debate. And we had a debate about 30 years ago in the debate ground when I was a kid. And I just had this idea.

We said, someone said all Buddhas are equal. And I said, no, and it's proving a Buddha. So they are, in a sense, older or more mature Buddhas.

And then if you just became a Buddha yesterday, how can you say you're equivalent to a Buddha who became one a billion years ago? Doesn't the time in count for anything? You see what I mean?

And so we had this huge, wonderful debate, like for three hours, about could one Buddha be senior to another Buddha because they got enlightened earlier. So by necessity, they've seen all things more time. Okay?

And here's the debate. So he probably heard about it. Okay, here it goes.

Who's going to read? I love this debate. ,DGON SANG TU ME RLONG BDAG BU YID, ,YES SHES LA BAG CHAG DGOS THAM MI DGOS, ,DGOS NA SANGS RGYAS NGA MA NANG BAG CHAG DGOS, ,YUN RING BA'I DE DAG THUD CHE LA, ,SANGS RGYAS CING MA NANG, ,YUN DGON BA'I THUD CHUNG BA RGYUR BA THAM, ,BAG CHAG DGOS SI LUS MA BSTAN GO NA MA NGES PAR GYUR RO, Yeah, good.

This is beautiful. Okay, this is a beautiful argument. So in DGON SANG, In the secret meaning.

Let's consider ME RLONG BDAG BU YID YES SHES. Mirror-like wisdom. Which is one of the five...

John loves to teach this. It's one of the five wisdoms of the Buddha. It's the purification of the heap of form, of the nut stick.

Okay, so when your body, upon enlightenment, becomes one of the five fundamental wisdoms of omissions, how they differ is very sexy. Your body, your physical body, it turns into mirror wisdom. It's called mirror wisdom, okay?

ME RLONG BDAG BU YID YES SHES. BAG CHAG DGOS or not, DGOM MI DGOS. Is that DGOS?

That's MI DGOS, which means smear. Yeah, smear, yeah. So what's he saying?

Well, yeah, when that happens, are the seeds, are the potentials, are they smeared or are they not? Is there a smearing process or not? So in the mind-only school, when a Buddha does something nice to somebody, do they get a new karmic seed smeared in their storehouse consciousness or not?

Do they get extra omniscience? Are new seeds smeared? Smear means, what was the classic example?

Incense kept in a cloth, in a silk bag. Then you throw the incense out and the bag smells like incense for a long time. That's the definition of smear in the mind-only school.

So when a Buddha does a nice thing for somebody, what do you guys think? Seems like, okay, you agree, right? Hey, hey.

They say you agree, right? No. You're done, debate.

Remember you said debate's over. Gunna, Gunna, if they do, if they are smearing, then the Sangye Lama Nams, then the earlier, the older Buddhists, have yun, ringwa, bok chok, gupa. They have more smearing that they did because they've been smearing longer.

They've been smearing longer than you guys. So the earlier Buddhists got longer smearing. Okay, yun, ringwa.

And therefore, they are too shewa. Yeah, they're more powerful due to that Sangye. They got more smears.

So the guys who got enlightened earlier, by definition, have more good deeds. They've been serving all living beings longer. They got more seeds smeared on their consciousness, okay?

Therefore, they are too shewa. More powerful smears. Yeah, okay.

Then the Sangye Chimanam. The later, the later- Yeah, those later newbies, newbie enlightened guys. Their seeds are- They haven't been smearing quite as long.

And those seeds are too shewa. They're not that powerful. They're a lot less powerful.

And therefore, now listen to his logical confusion. Listen to his logical confusion. Therefore, and words going to translate, bakshak goshe, lungma ten, hona, hey.

Then it has to be uncertain. The neutrality of the foundation consciousness as a place where you smear things has to be considered uncertain or indefinite. Yeah, so follow the logic here.

If there's Buddhists who've been Buddhists longer and got more smearings, and then there's other Buddhists who've been Buddhists shorter and got less smearings, then you cannot say that the place where the smearing is done is always neutral. The leap of, there's Buddhists who got longer smears, there's other Buddhists who got shorter smears, then you cannot say that the place where the smearing is done is comically neutral. Because it can be more or less powerful depending on length of time?

Yeah, because there's better and worse. So it's morally charged. If you can say it's better or worse, it's morally charged.

It has a moral content. Yeah, more gewa. Therefore, that storehouse consciousness cannot be neutral.

Because it can get more smeared or less smeared, and that's a better thing and a worse thing. Is there an assumption that the kunshi is getting charged by the seeds of content? It can be more moral or less moral, because some Buddhists are more moral than other Buddhists.

Because they got... Oh, it's obviously correct. They've been smearing a lot longer than the other guys.

It's a very beautiful argument. Very good. And tune in next week.

Very nice. So either word, or sushumna, is gonna translate... I don't know how to translate all the references.

It's all smeared stuff. So I'm saying it's not smeared. I thought you might like to go on a detour of what are the characteristics of mirror-like consciousness.

Because he didn't say storehouse consciousness. He said mirror-like wisdom, which is there. And he specified that that's where these seeds that I'm talking about are being smeared.

I thought you might like to go off on a detour of what's the definition of mirror-like consciousness. Because when they get to Buddhists and they start describing their mental functions and stuff, it all gets weird. And a lot of authors are afraid to go there.

And it's noticeable that authors start to speed up at that point. Like you're like, wait a minute, what's this mirror-like thing? And they're like, and that's gonna...

And then you smear. So he's gonna translate Migu and Dorje Tabu. Gonggi Tso if you're feeling ambitious.

Okay, I'll do my best. Okay, cool. Ken, is this some error?

Is it supposed to be dundu? Dundu. Oh, noon, yeah.

Okay, that makes sense. Okay, cool. Nice.

Nice that you caught it. Cool. All right.

Word is doing beautiful work teaching many people. I don't know how he teaches people, but they read faster and better than I ever taught anybody. So I'd like to thank you.

Thanks, Ken. And we'll see you in the next episode. Okay, thanks to you.

Thanks, everybody. Have a great week. Have fun in Japan.

Yeah. Are you going? No, I can't make it.

I don't want to work for a second. I would like certain children. Oh, I was supposed to announce that the mixed nuts are off.

[Speaker 2]
Anyone catch that announcement? I'm sure it was very important. See you soon, everybody.