Вордсмит — Книга 2: Трудные места школы «Ум только», занятие 31

[Speaker 1]
Hello. Should I start the homework now. Now you could do it about half an hour.

Just kidding. Okay. All right.

Okay, so, from our last class, what problem would arise with the category of tree. If I was with trees were self existently a tree.

[Speaker 3]
No more mesquite.

[Speaker 1]
All right. All trees will be hello. I was with.

Yeah. Okay. Both.

There'll be no other members, and there will be no. For both of you. Ever said that is right.

There'd be no such category and there'll be no other members, other than Alice. Okay. Um, what is the relationship.

This is a multi part question, just reviewing everything. What is the relationship between an Alice would tree and tree to be an Alice would choose to be a tree. Yes.

Um, is this relationship, or attic. No. Correct.

What.

[Speaker 3]
Automatic self existently.

[Speaker 1]
Yes, exactly. What was the implications of if it did.

[Speaker 2]
Then to be a tree would be an Alice would. And that's not true. Good so that's, that's a review of the last question.

We lost you.

[Speaker 1]
We couldn't hear you. But I think that the answer is that they're both members of the same set tree. Yeah, that's right.

Um, I hadn't asked it yet but yeah, that's great. Um, and then how is this relationship germane to our current discussion.

[Speaker 3]
We're discussing whether the seeds of the country. And that they're not. If they were then they would.

Or.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah.

[Speaker 3]
Um, if they were they, then they couldn't change. But if they were then they, they, if they were, I'm getting it all confused that there'd be a sense that they believe in, they are in the sense that they belong to the country. They belong to the.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, yeah. That's our next question you're totally right. Maybe better.

A better phrasing would say, how, how is this. How's the logic that they are to both members of a set germane to our discussion. I was just thinking where that maybe, I mean there is a, here's a guess okay.

There's a general thing called kunshi. And then under it there's two members tend to get big crunchy and bread tend to be a big country, the country which is the refrigerator or the basis, and the country which is the resting on that basis, or the seeds. Right.

Could you say that crunchy general. What we call crunchy is the is the is the set. And then the two members of the set is crunchy considered as the refrigerator and crunchy considered as the seeds, could you say that.

I don't know. Yeah, totally. Just the rub of this particular part, which we discussed, um, because everything about the country will come in the next question, but basically the rub is, um, two members of a set, um, have to be distinct they can't Lord over each other.

So if once you say, once you classify them as members as you're saying in specific, um, then, then all the logic around that. So, just go ahead to the next part because everybody's on the next part. Um, because two members of the same things whatever.

Okay, so here we go. Right. These are members of the same set.

What if you consider them self existing the same, what problems that are right, what problem that arises. So, we have a gal say sir. You know, consciousness as separate or the same thing and the problems there, and then what I guess you Michael just said regarding if there are two parts of the country one, which is the consciousness holder part, the storehouse part and one is this thing being stored, those two things.

And for the same problems on us to be there, or not being separate. Okay, that was a review of what they said. That's not exactly what I put in my answer I'm just going to be hard for exactly.

A word your, your internet's breaking up pretty bad. Almost every sentence. So, I don't know.

[Speaker 2]
I'd be too early.

[Speaker 1]
In Tucson.

[Speaker 2]
If you just feed some more coal into the boiler. Maybe fix that. I don't know.

Wait till the sun comes out a little more food to the hamster in the wheel.

[Speaker 1]
That proves that we're Marcus, better city than Tucson.

[Speaker 2]
A rock. That's the first time anyone ever said that. Second time.

A room rock. Look, it's three.

[Speaker 3]
The best cafe in the state.

[Speaker 1]
Moomba Moomba.

[Speaker 3]
It's freezing here too.

[Speaker 1]
Hey word, maybe you could try your getting on the internet on your phone. I don't know.

[Speaker 3]
Can you hear me.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
That really Maybe you could hook your internet to your phone and not to your house internet.

[Speaker 2]
Maybe if you just plug your ethernet jack straight into a carrier pigeon.

[Speaker 1]
Well, let's try to understand his answer.

[Speaker 2]
Okay. Problem arises.

[Speaker 1]
I have a proposal you guys.

[Speaker 2]
Yes.

[Speaker 1]
How about I go to the class. And then. Hello.

Okay. All right. Okay, I'll just read the answer.

If they are members of the same set, then they must be separate. And problems arise concerning the seeds being able to create our world. Your world as the foundation consciousness.

If to be seeds is to self-existently be foundation consciousness with the I guess the foundation consciousness, then you have no other members of the group called consciousness and nothing could exist because seeds aren't aware. Okay. Anyway, you can debate that.

Okay. So this is the wrap up the term up till now. So.

Please explain the punchline of this whole term. These are the this line. And then we'll go say was getting there earlier.

So that to be the seeds is neither to be the foundation consciousness nor not to be the foundation consciousness. Right. Yeah, that's what it says.

But what's the punchline? Oh, that it's confusing.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, I don't feel like we've decided yet.

[Speaker 1]
It's hard. Well, I think where he's heading is that I think then this whole thing is going into a discussion of whether the mind that the country itself is a day, right? Yeah.

Substantially. Right. Yeah.

I think that's where he's going in general. But what does the mind only school say is the country? Does it exist really or not?

Yeah. Um. Okay, that's fine.

The practical application is if the husband in the kitchen is just a seed ripening in the refrigerator, then it's even more extreme than middle way. Then you're getting angry at at a seed ripening in your mind. It's not even that the person outside of you is coming from you.

It's that the person is inside of you. How's that?

[Speaker 3]
You're getting mad at your own mind.

[Speaker 1]
You're getting mad at a part of your mind, and it's even worse than if you're getting mad at something that's coming because you yelled at your kids. I don't agree. In a way, it's more convincing.

I don't know. If the people I'm upset at are part of my own mind, then I definitely have to improve.

[Speaker 2]
Well, it's more convincing if you just stop there.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
We've also been saying that members of a set can't overlap, but that's not at all true, right? There's a ton of circumstances where it does. I mean, well, I mean, the easiest one is just to say a car and Chevy are both members of the set working thing.

And so there's overlap in the sense that one is characteristic of the other. But if you want separate ones, then you can also say, like, gas-powered car and electric-powered car have overlap in hybrids like my car. I mean, I'm sure you could come up with endless examples of subsets that overlap.

I don't know.

[Speaker 3]
Proper subsets.

[Speaker 2]
Well, I mean, you know, yeah. I mean, to be an electric car is to be a car. If you take away all cars, you take away electric cars.

And there do exist other things that are not electric cars but are still cars. For example, gas-powered cars. I don't know.

Just bugging.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Hey, Tibetan. Sleepy words.

Shapa. Yes. Shapa.

Oscar says aloe tree. Oscar's almost always right. Yeah.

Aloe's wood. Or these other names for it as well. Shopa.

[Speaker 3]
Shopa.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Hey, word. Can you use it as a medicine?

Shapa? I believe it's a medicine, and it's most often used as an incense. It's very famous as an incense all over Asia.

They usually call it agar agar. Does it grow in Tibet? I don't know if it grows up that high.

It's very popular in China and Japan as an incense. And I believe it grows in Indonesia, actually. So I have a feeling it doesn't grow that high.

Okay. But I would have to check. Yeah, I think it grows in the lowlands and tropics and stuff.

It's very expensive. Oh. Yeah.

It's getting rarer, too. JPJ.

[Speaker 3]
Book that's going to be out in paperback on December 30th.

[Speaker 1]
Ooh. Okay. What's it called?

Who's it referring to in our text?

[Speaker 3]
Sakya Pandita.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Yay. Okay.

Here are my translated verses. Oh, man. This is painful.

For that reason, as long as the Merit said, Jesus, that says, Jesus. Yeah, the only the only the only suggestion I have, the only big suggestion I have, is that you distribute ZE to both GCIG and THA DE. Can you read it?

Can you now change your English? Distribute ZE to both in the second line. Distribute the word ZE.

It should say, DE SU DU ZE GCIG DANG ZE THA DE Okay. Now change that, and I think your sentence is all right. I mean, I guess, I mean, I'm having the same issue with ZE as an adjective, you know, and to say to be one is to be the other, you know, what is it?

So I don't know. I would say if you're based on that comment, therefore, it cannot be the case that the set and its members could be thought of as to be one is to be the other, or substantially separate, because I would say to be one is to be the other, or to be one is not to be the other. That's all.

Oh, yeah, exactly. Okay. Yeah, and then your sentence is good.

Then your translation is good, I think. And it's a very, very difficult sentence. Do you want to go deeper?

[Speaker 3]
Sure.

[Speaker 1]
There's a construction here. There's a connection between the word GC and the word DESI. Do you know, what's that?

Do you know? Do you remember? Yeah, I'm aware of that construction, and I was trying to work with it.

GC is like, it presents it, and then DESI, like, tells you what it is. So it's like GC is like, how is it? And then DESI is like, this is how it is.

Yeah, like you would say in Tibetan, GC, Geshe Michael continues to eat donuts. DESI, he will always have problems with his allergies. You know, something like that.

So there has to be a cause and effect relationship between what comes after GC and what comes after DESI. See what I mean? Yeah, that was my therefore, as an attempt at that.

Okay, okay. Well, it has to be connected to the as long as. You see what I mean?

[Speaker 3]
Right.

[Speaker 1]
As long as, blah, blah, blah, blah, for that, you know, as long as that holds true, then, yeah, so you did it. I think it's pretty good. I think the therefore connects to DESI pretty well, yeah.

Okay. All right, these are very, very difficult, and that's why we gave you this book. Yeah, so the bottom line of the first sentence is you can't say the seeds are the kunshi, and you can't say they are not the kunshi.

GZHAN YANG RDZA'I GCIG TU KHA'I LANG NAS BYANG NYID DUG PA LA RGYAL BA MED NA YAN LA DANG YAN LA GZHAN NYID RDZA'I GCIG PA SANGS RGYAS KYIS KYANG RGYAL PA MED NA There's not the case that to be one is to... GZHAN YANG RDZA'I GCIG TU KHA'I LANG NAS What is he, Kha'i Lang? RDZA'I GCIG Yeah, so accepting what?

To be one is to be other. Yeah. So you have a not the case.

I know, this is what I was having a hard time with, because this is me down here. Oh no, that refers to the Gelwa. I know, okay.

I've messed with this for a while, and I read it aloud before I finished my homework, trying to make sure I was saying... This is what I'm saying. It is not the case, blah, blah, blah, is in contradiction.

So I was trying to negate the contradiction. Oh, okay. Is that right?

Well, it actually is something like once you accept that to be one is to be the other, then if there's no... then how can there be no contradiction that they are two separate things? It's something like that.

Yeah, okay. I struggled with it. Yeah, and in that case, not...

Oh no, MI GNUD SO by the Buddha. It was not refuted? Yeah, not even the Buddha could deny this undesirable result of your logic.

Not even the Buddha could deny this bad consequence of your thinking. Okay. I guess I'm having a hard time distributing knots.

Yeah, yeah. If there's no contradiction... If the...

If the members and the set... Then the members of the set and the set... Sorry, the set would have to be such that to be the set is to be the members, and not even a Buddha could deny that that's what would have to happen.

Right, that makes total sense. Yeah, yeah. Then trees would have to be aloe trees.

And not even a Buddha could deny that they would have to be, if your logic is true. Got it. Okay, cool.

Extremely difficult, yeah. And somehow important, you know. And you know, again, I want to repeat that it's hard to think about these things, and it's frustrating.

And we don't understand. And then we feel like we don't want to read this thing. But that's just sheer laziness, you know.

And if you're going to see emptiness directly, you've got to face these things, and you've got to figure them out. Or you never will, you see. You can't just let things go on the way they used to be and think that magically you're going to see emptiness.

You have to try to think about things that are hard to think about. And so it requires kind of a courage to be a mixed nut. And I think all the mixed nuts we have do have courage.

All right. Thank you for... That was probably the two worst sentences in the whole thing.

Maybe it'll get easier, but then we won't learn as much. Okay, let's go around here. All right.

So I wanted to say one thing. This... When we tried to look up this quotation, which is before Tsongkhapa, it's about, I don't know, 150 years before Tsongkhapa.

Let me show you my... Let me get my cursor bigger. Yeah.

We don't have him in the database yet. We had... When we first started the Input Project, I went to the Sakya Monastery.

I offered them free computers. I offered to pay them if they would put in their great books. They have a collection that's similar to the Kangyur and Tengyur, which is called Sakya Kabum.

And I don't know, it's the great books of five of their greatest founders of Sakya lineage. And I offered to pay them, and I paid for everything. I paid for the electricity.

And they did a good start. They typed in a lot of stuff. And then I think the abbot changed, and it just got lost somehow.

But we still have all that data. I'm not sure if it's the whole Sakya Kabum, but I think it's a lot of it. And I asked Word if he could go cut that text out of the raw data.

And he went and did it. He cut the text out of the raw data. And it's something that we still have to do.

It's something that still needs to be done, is to cut them out and to put them into the database somewhere. And that's it. I wanted to thank Word for doing that.

And I also wanted to say that we need a team to do this kind of stuff. It would help to have people to do this kind of stuff. And we could add all these to the database.

Also, our catalogs need some work, and it would help a lot to look up things if we had better catalogs. So Joel from Vancouver has been working hard to try to improve the catalogs. And Venerable Phil Baker has been trying to cut out the text, but they still need help.

And if there's anybody that could help with that, it would be nice. So just basically, the Mixed Nuts, we have a group of catalogs that are old catalogs from about 20 years ago. And they're all pieces of catalogs, and they're all in a big file.

So you can search them, but it's messy. And it would be nice to work on that with a team. If we could get a team together, especially of Mixed Nuts, to really clean up the catalogs and just basically make a list of all the authors and their standard names.

And then a list of all the books. It would be really nice. We don't have a perfect catalog, and we have a lot of books that we could still cut up into people.

So if people wanted to help with that, talk to Nick, maybe. And Joel from Vancouver is really committed to working hard on improving that catalog, and he's done a lot of work on it. We still need to do more.

So I'm going to skip past Naran Pelden. And we're going to pick up here. By the way, there is an aloe tree, if anyone cares.

Okay. I looked it up because I don't know if there's an aloe... What's that stuff you use on your skin?

Aloe vera. Is that the same thing? I don't know.

No, no, Gannett. It's different. Okay.

All right. All right. We're going to go down to...

We finally... By the way, what's happening with words text, we've reached the end of the difficult part. So this whole term was devoted to a very, very difficult part.

And I think it's kind of fun. Let me check the time. If we work hard today, we can get out of the forest of aloe trees.

And we can go to easier stuff. And I think we deserve it. So let's go.

Okay. Yeah. Now let's think what he says here.

What's that mean, word? The tree is not the opposite of everything that it is not. Wait, no.

It's not a tree when it is the opposite of everything it is not. No. No.

He says, let's take the opposite of all that's not a tree. That's what it means. Okay.

Let's take the opposite of everything that's not a tree. Oh, yeah. My yin is sometimes used with...

Yeah. It's used as yin, right? Sorry.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. So this dhokpa here in this case does not mean a double reverse, but sometimes it does mean a double reverse.

And that's a big headache. So let's take everything which is not the opposite of a tree. What is that, word?

A member of the set of... Wait, no. The archetype of a tree.

Good, good, good. Yeah. And archetypes cannot be...

[Speaker 2]
Working things, functional things.

[Speaker 1]
This first line is already trouble. Okay? We cannot read it as, let's consider that working thing.

It's the opposite of all that is not a tree. We can't read it that way. We have to read it as the thing you get, the thing you end up with, when you reverse all that is not a tree.

You have to read it that way, or it doesn't make sense. So let's talk... Which is really the archetype, which cannot be a ngopo.

Okay? So here, ngopo, you have to read it as that thing. Okay?

That thing you end up with when you reverse all that is not a tree. Now, which is the archetype. Now, question for you, word.

Is shing shapa dang tse chik?

[Speaker 2]
No.

[Speaker 1]
No. Is shapa shing dang tse chik? Yes.

Good, good. To be a tree is not to be an aloe tree. But to be an aloe tree is to be a tree.

Okay? Is to be a number of trees. Okay?

Yeah. So, don't forget, don't forget the first one you mentioned is normally under the second one. Okay?

Okay? The first one you mentioned is normally the member, and the second one you mentioned is normally the set. So I'll say it in Tibetan, okay?

Is shapa shing dang tse chik? Shapa shing dang tse chik yin. Nice, nice, nice.

Is shing shapa dang tse chik? Shing shapa dang tse chik ma yin. Nice, perfect.

Okay, good, good. So, which one did he put first here? De.

Yeah, de means the chi, the archetype, shing. Okay? Now he's talking about shing.

So this says, he's asking a question. Is to be a shing to be a shapa or not? Ma yin.

Is to be a shing not to be a shapa? Well, tse chik or not to be? That's what tse chik means.

Yeah, okay, but you didn't say that, so that's why I'm just... It's delicate. Yes, yes, yes.

Yeah, it is tade, it is separate, yeah. It's not true that to be trees is to be aloe tree, right? It is true that to be aloe tree is to be a tree, okay?

Yes. It's not true that to be a tree is always to be an aloe tree, okay? Yeah.

So, dangpo tar na means if the shapa were the chi, okay? If to be a tree was to be a shapa, okay? If all trees were aloe trees, okay?

Then what would happen to the other selwas of trees? They couldn't exist. Yeah, they couldn't be tree.

Here's the third line. Shing ma yinpa gyur, they couldn't be trees. If to be a tree was to be an aloe tree, there couldn't be any apple trees or juniper trees, okay?

Yeah. All right, now let's reverse it. Let's reverse it, okay?

If to be a shapa is to be a tree, then? If to be an aloe tree is to be a tree, then is there anything wrong with that? No, then you can have other members of the set called tree.

Yeah, but if to be an aloe was to be a tree, then it would have to be unchanging. It couldn't be a tree. If to be an aloe tree is to be tree, then there couldn't be any other trees.

If to be aloe tree is to be, quote, tree, then there couldn't be any other trees. If aloe tree equals the set called tree, then there's not any other trees. Yeah, if aloe tree equals tree, then there's not only not other trees, but there's not tree either.

Yeah, good, good, good. Okay, all right. That's our problem.

That's our problem. By the way, this is a fallacy, and then I'll let you play with that, okay? It is true that to be an aloe tree is to be a tree, but it's not true that to be aloe tree is to be tree.

Right. Self-existence is the... Yeah.

No, you can't even say that in English. To be aloe tree is to be tree. You can't say that.

Yeah, I know, because that implies self-existence. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, you could say that, yeah.

Or to say that aloe tree is the set of all trees. Right, which it's not. Yeah, which it's not.

That's all. That's all. And then keep...

You know, when you teach this to your students in the next 50 years, Warren, you're going to have to... This is important. This is really, really important.

This is how you see emptiness. This is one of the best ways to see emptiness, if you struggle with this. Okay, let's read the next sentence.

What is it? Is it Mandre, do you think? When I meet the guy who carved this, I'm going to shoot him, okay?

I'm going to commit the first of the ten bad things. No, no. I am true.

I promise if I meet this guy. I'm going in a time machine back to the 13th century and shoot this guy. I spent two weeks on this.

I couldn't understand it. This morning, I said, oh my God, it's Mandre, okay? But day with aloe isn't a word at all, is it?

No, it's not. Well, that's a clue, right? Yeah, I mean, there's some similar...

Well, there might be a word, chase somebody, I don't know. So, Mandre par nepe chir, sumpe rikpa tang, chesut tunu. Okay, here we go.

And by the way, everybody, have hope. You're almost out of this. And then you go from the frying pan into the fire when you get to Utpala's text.

Very cruel to have both in the same morning. I think we're over time here.

[Speaker 3]
No, we just started. Yeah, we're five minutes, ten minutes over.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, yeah. Oh, we started at six. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Speaker 3]
That's crazy.

[Speaker 2]
You guys are all high on aloe plants.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, yeah. That's aloe for you guys.

[Speaker 2]
Quit smoking aloe wood over there. I've got to move.

[Speaker 1]
This gasana is frying my brain, sorry. Oh, poor Nick, I don't know. You've got to just...

I don't know. Anyway, you could get a standing desk for the... What do you call it?

[Speaker 3]
Gasana.

[Speaker 1]
Gasana. Okay. If things which are other than aloe trees, which means juniper trees for him, now, are they shing dan zay chik du du?

Are trees other than aloe trees, is to be them to be a tree? That age picture. No.

No, that is. It is, okay? Is to be a juniper tree to be a tree?

Wait, tree or a tree? A tree. Okay, sorry, you're right.

I'll say it more carefully. Is to be a juniper tree to be a tree?

[Speaker 3]
Yes.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Is to be a juniper tree to be, quote, tree?

[Speaker 2]
No.

[Speaker 1]
It is. Yeah, it is.

[Speaker 2]
No, no. We just established that it wasn't. When you say, quote, tree, now you're asking if juniper tree is the archetype, quote, tree.

[Speaker 1]
I'll give it to him for now, but think about it. Okay? Okay.

If what he's trying... No, but what he's trying to say is exactly what I said. If trees other than aloe trees are tree, then aloe trees don't get to be trees.

[Speaker 2]
Sure.

[Speaker 1]
Okay? Okay? If trees other than aloe trees get to be, quote, trees, all trees, then aloe tree doesn't get to be a tree.

If all the other trees in the world get to be the category called tree, then aloe tree gets left out. Am I right?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Okay? Okay? Shapa mayente.

Okay? Shapa shing mayente. Then aloe trees don't get to be trees.

Okay? Right. All right?

Okay? Yeah. And they couldn't mix...

There's no mixing of... Because there's no mixing of members. Okay?

To be an aloe tree is not to be a juniper tree. To be an aloe tree is to be a tree. But to be an aloe tree is not to be a juniper tree if they are members of a set.

No matter what Dr. Kramer says about hybrid parts.

[Speaker 2]
Again, countless examples, right? I mean, deciduous trees and oak trees are both members of a set tree.

[Speaker 1]
But not on the same hierarchical level. How's that?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, okay. But wouldn't someone have to say that at some point?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, it's understood. Okay? But you're right.

I understand what you're saying. And I think they actually get into that at some point. Now, word.

There's a word here, shay. What's that imply? Oh, by the way, somebody said the members don't mix, despite Dr. Kramer's comments. Somebody said the members don't mix. Okay? Therefore, if to be other than an aloe tree is to be trees, then aloe tree, since it can't mix with other than aloe tree, cannot be tree.

Okay? That's all. Easy.

Okay. Now, there's a quotation mark here, right? Word.

What does that mean? That somebody said it? It's a quote?

It's a quotation. Yeah, it's a quote. And Grandpa Mike went and found it for you.

Okay. Here we go. Author, Shantarakshita.

A nice, mind-only-ish, lower middle way guy. Teacher of? Kamalashila.

Kamalashila. Good. Who himself is a nice kind of mixture of lower middle way and mind-only school.

And if you want to read more about that viewpoint, you can read what? Venable Upala's book? Yeah, Venable Upala's book.

Which I can't help but go find for you. Hang on. You're watching my screen, right?

[Speaker 3]
Yes.

[Speaker 2]
Yes.

[Speaker 1]
Can you see my science fiction book? Red shirt. Yes.

Yeah, I'm not going to show that. Forget it. Okay.

Anyway, you can go get her book. All right.

[Speaker 2]
It's a message from God or someone close enough to him for our purposes. That's a cute one.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Okay. So, yeah.

Here it is. Okay. If they are individual chedaks, members of a set, without mixing, then they are pens and pang gyel.

What does that mean?

[Speaker 3]
Virtually exclusive.

[Speaker 1]
Nice, Ali. Nice, Venerable Jigme. Yeah.

Then to be one is to not be the other. To be an aloe tree is to not be the other. To be a juniper tree is not to be a juniper tree.

So, I think we got the right quotation. Then we, you know, that's where we went to Ngawang Belman, who used the same quotation, somewhere. Sorry.

And who kept quoting Tsongkhapa. And then we have his nice little poop on the fruit thing from the Sakyapandita. And this is all going to be a nice appendix.

It's nice timing today, Word, because we're going to get through this hard part, and we're going to hit the next part. So, there's more notes, Word, on the Sakyapandita's ideas. And, yay, we're out of the woods.

We're out of the trees. Okay. Please read.

I translated these two, next two ones. Oh, good. You translated these two.

May I be so bold as to skip to the third paragraph, then? Is that okay? Please.

[Speaker 2]
What happened here, roughly?

[Speaker 1]
These are the two that weren't translated for the class.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, I just want to know what he said, though, before we...

[Speaker 1]
DE NA JI ZHIG SEMS NAM LAS DMIGS DANG PO'I PHYIN TSE SEMS DUS BA'I DUS PA'I DE ZHIG TSE CHING DANG THAN NAS If you accept a general which is independent of its members, then if you get into just trying to decide whether the members are the general or aren't the general, you're going to have problems either way, which is what happened to us with the mind and the seeds. And the fact that you would have those problems is something that not even a Buddha could deny. Okay?

And I'd like to announce that all the mixed nuts and our friends, surviving friends, a lot, 86 surviving friends. That's a lot. That's like looking around after a big battle and counting how many soldiers are left.

I'd say it's about almost 90% of the soldiers are left, which is pretty cool. We are out of that discussion. We're into the next discussion, which is much easier.

Here we go, please read. Dr. Kramer's going to check you. Grandpa's going to drink coffee.

Grandpa's going to drink coffee. Yeah, here's a nice big mistake. I think this is grandpa, okay?

And let's read it, okay? So, you know, if you guys remember 100 years ago, there were three problems that would be... What do you call that?

There's a logic word. There are three problems that would occur... There's a fancy logic word.

[Speaker 2]
Would be incurred?

[Speaker 1]
It sounds like that, but it's a different word. Anyway, there are three problems that would come up if the seeds were the foundation consciousness, right? Entailed?

Say again? Entailed? No, there's a more fancy word.

I don't remember. Anyway. Anyway, if the seeds were the foundation consciousness, they would...

if the seeds were the mind, they would also what? Be aware. They would be aware.

They would see things. They would see things, number one. Number two, all your rebirth...

Would be mixed up. Would be mixed up because the mind is something of an instant, and all the seeds would be something of an instant. And in the mind, all the seeds for the five rebirths are always there.

So if mind had... so if all the seeds had to be one instant, then all the seeds would be mixed up, and you could make the karma to go to the hell realms, and it would pop out as a paradise realm, okay? Something like that.

So they would be mixed up, chulwa. And if those seeds were mixed up, the third consequence of saying that the seeds are the kunshi is that the kams would get chulwa. Yeah, the realms would get mixed up.

The realms, desire realm, formless realm, would get mixed up, okay? And here's tsulwa. What's the tsulwa sum?

Tsulwa sum or the... Do you mean tsulwa she? Yeah, I'm sorry.

Yeah, you're right, tsulwa she. The three searches, okay? The three searches.

[Speaker 3]
It's without an L.

[Speaker 1]
Four searches, sorry. Yeah, yeah, now we fixed it, okay? Oh, no, it should have an L, but actually it'd be easier.

[Speaker 3]
Oh, I see. It appears in both ways, actually, in the text.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, the L makes it easier to tell you the truth. Anyway, here the tsulwa got chulwa with the chulwa. Yeah, the tsulwa got mixed up.

Yeah, they got mixed up. So yeah, the realms would get mixed up too. Nyi du.

Totally, okay? The realms would all get mixed up. Then what would happen, Wern?

You could practice the myong juk. You could practice the meditation to be a deva. Yeah, to be a deva in the?

Form realm. Good. sukyi la'i namin drupay sabun.

Oh, yeah. Then you could have a seed in your foundation consciousness to become a form realm god, right? Yeah.

But it would ripen as a drupay. A desire. A god.

By some mystical power. Yeah, yeah. It would ripen as a foundation consciousness in the desire realm.

Yeah, in other words, it would plant a seed in a desire realm, Krishna. Okay? Okay.

de kun shing nam shing dang tse chuk tu du grabay che. Because you'd have to say that to be the seed was to be... Sorry.

Because you'd have to say that to be the consciousness is to be the seed. Okay. Yeah, don't forget the first one is the subset normally, and the second one is the set, okay?

So then it would be the case that kun shing nam shing, the foundation consciousness, would have to be the seed. Is it saying? Okay, yeah, that's fine.

Okay? Yeah. Okay, good.

Keep reading. And Nick, you want to check him? Yes, sir.

One minute left. Okay. Yeah.

Then any seed that you planted by doing a meditation, which is supposed to end up in the form realm deity, that could only ripen in the desire realm because the new seed that you had planted was the desire realm. Kun shing, foundation consciousness. Yeah, okay, got it?

Yeah. Because to be in the kun shing is to be the kun shing. Yeah.

Okay, right. I'm going to say, I'm going to wipe this note out. That's kind of silly note.

Okay. All right. Can I translate it?

Yeah. Beautiful. Yeah.

Therefore, if we say that there is a chick in this manner, they would then create like the infinite, like it would create all things. No, not Rick, Tom J., Rick. But yeah, but infinite states of mind, right?

Sorry. Therefore, there would be endless arguments about, if you say to be the seed is to be the foundation consciousness, you bring up an infinite number of problems. Oh.

Okay? You're going to get infinite number of debates. That's why I put nimble.

I mean, it was a good note. Okay, good. Now, great time, great time.

We're at a great, great time. Perfect timing. I don't know how you did it, but you've got the whole term is closing up at the same section in your book.

Okay? Therefore, we can say that to be the seeds is not to be the crunchy. Okay?

Because there's too many problems with it. All right? Got it?

So, let's change to the other possibility. Here we go. We're over time again.

Word. Last sentence. Okay.

Tsongkhapa, you said to be the seeds was not to be the foundation consciousness. Now, what's the problem with saying that the seeds are not the foundation consciousness? Are there problems with that?

Okay? Second option. We just killed the first option, that the seeds could be the foundation consciousness.

Now our job for next term is to kill the second object, that they cannot be the foundation consciousness. Got it?

[Speaker 2]
Can be not?

[Speaker 1]
How is it that it is not true that they can't be separate? That they can be separate. They can't be separate.

Okay. We just showed how it's true that it's not true that to be the seeds is to be the foundation consciousness. Now this guy comes up and says, Tsongkhapa, you said the other option was also wrong.

Can you explain that one? He says, oh, yeah, I can do that. Okay.

Next, but next term. When is next term, Nick? It's in February.

So get ready, everybody. It's coming up soon. We're going to finish our translations and then hop right into the next term.

Okay. Yeah, just because of other things we have to do. Term 15 stopped.

Okay, good. I think after this, you know, our subsequent years will be more consistent. Now that we've, Inshallah.

Yeah, we'll have more of a break between terms. And it's basically caused by the fact that you can't do retreat at Diamond Mountain in the winter and the summer. That decides the whole annual schedule.

All right. Thank you, guys. Thank you for sticking in with it.

Yours is almost certainly the most difficult text, and I really admire that you stuck with it. So, thank you. Thank you, Geshe-la.

Take a five-minute break. Yay! Six minutes.