Вордсмит — Книга 2: Трудные места школы «Ум только», занятие 23

[Speaker 3]
Hello everyone. Hello. Hello, Master Word.

Hi. Hola.

[Speaker 1]
Oscar. If you don't put the accent with your name no one's gonna be able to pronounce it right.

[Speaker 3]
Oh yeah, that's true.

[Speaker 1]
Don't worry, I still can't pronounce it.

[Speaker 3]
I know you can.

[Speaker 1]
Whatever. Wait hold on I can do it. Oscar.

Oscar. Oscar.

[Speaker 3]
Yeah, second one.

[Speaker 1]
Second one. Yeah, I got it.

[Speaker 3]
Perfect.

[Speaker 1]
Thanks. I'm working on it. Hi Aldo.

Hi, Professor Aldo. Okay, we're going to start because we don't have as much time for mind only as we can, right? Right?

Right. Right.

[Speaker 3]
Words text.

[Speaker 1]
Last class. Okay. So we're talking about seeds still.

What are the four types of seeds in our first group of four?

[Speaker 2]
In the outer.

[Speaker 1]
No, that was six. That was six classes ago.

[Speaker 3]
Well, we got our communal seed.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, that's true. What's the opposite of that?

[Speaker 3]
The individual seed.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Okay. And then what the other two.

[Speaker 3]
Yeah, the world and the contents.

[Speaker 1]
That's what they refer to. We'll get to that.

[Speaker 3]
Oh, sorry.

[Speaker 1]
What are the other seeds?

[Speaker 3]
Oh. Oh, yeah.

[Speaker 1]
What's that? What's, what's that mean?

[Speaker 3]
No. No feeling. Yeah, the world is not aware.

[Speaker 2]
Things that are alive and things that are not.

[Speaker 1]
Yep. That's it. Things that are sentient here with the word sentient actually is good.

[Speaker 3]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
I just put feeling but it's sentience or conscious. Literally, literally. I'm echoing.

Okay. You definitely don't want to have me. What do each of these.

Where's the seed for whittling money out of your teacher. That is. That's.

That's come from being very generous with his own students in the past. Definitely not in the present. No, that's not true.

Ask, ask Oscar. I constantly help things. What do each of these actually refer to respectively.

What order again.

[Speaker 3]
Oh, right. We got our outer world.

[Speaker 1]
So yeah, the, yeah, the outer world. Yep. Then we get our inhabitants.

That's true. Perfect. Next.

Here's the, here's the list.

[Speaker 2]
Then, then inhabitants and then outer world.

[Speaker 1]
Yep.

[Speaker 2]
Then we reverse those. Yeah, cool.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, that's good. I'm sentient entities.

[Speaker 2]
I can't believe I remembered something from words book.

[Speaker 1]
Oh my God. What's going on, Ben. Are you, are you feeling sick.

He will be if he keeps thinking about this stuff.

[Speaker 2]
You will be.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Yeah, quite. That's your quote.

Okay. Um, what is the, this is a special asked, I didn't get mad. I remember.

I mean, what do you blame it on me. You're the teacher I'm blaming everything on you, and we attribute it to you. I she's attributing I'm blaming.

Okay. That's according to Tim. What is the motion between the seeds for a and b, a and c, a and b, b and c, b and d, and cd.

[Speaker 2]
Well, you got two threes and two fours.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. So, yeah, you got.

[Speaker 1]
It's pretty bad. You think.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, well that's mushy musume right you say three or four is theoretically how you answer these questions right.

[Speaker 1]
No, totally know what this question is not as many permutations as you might think, because, because it's really only two things. It grows up I'm going to trade you know is. Yeah.

But, uh, what's up with those two things.

[Speaker 2]
So a and b are three, a and c are. Sorry, yeah, a and c are for. Oh no ain't they're all three.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, I made it easier because.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, they're all three.

[Speaker 1]
Well groups, a and b and cd are mutually exclusive.

[Speaker 2]
So if something's mutually exclusive it is, is it a three or four. Um, has to be a three because you can't have something that's both.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, it would have to be a three because it'd be one of each and then the one that is.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, and if, if groups are the same.

[Speaker 1]
Then you can't compare groups that are exactly the same right. Well, I mean if they have a different name I guess. I guess you're allowed or something.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, yeah, right. Yeah, so they don't have three or four.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, exactly. That's why I made it easier, just to illustrate the fact that we are comparing things that are exactly opposite or exactly the same actually.

[Speaker 2]
And if two are mutually exclusive then they also have to be three right.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, mutually exclusive would have to be three. But I just made it easier because I'm lazy. Okay, here's some Tibetan.

It's not that sexy though. Tibetan is sexy.

[Speaker 2]
Right, Tibetan words.

[Speaker 1]
Very highly, highly. I just picked random words because we have the same words over and over now. What's the word?

[Speaker 2]
Valuable?

[Speaker 1]
Nope, that's not a word. Make a mistake. Yeah, mistake.

Gotcha. Tim got it, by the way. Oh really?

Yeah, he's on a free trial. Oh, good. Zero dollars.

Oh, here it is. Pretty cool one. It comes up fairly often.

Always at the end of a phrase or assertion.

[Speaker 2]
We'll examine.

[Speaker 1]
That's what it literally means. But it's just saying how it should be viewed. You should look at it this way.

Oh, okay. And Naxal, we had it in one of our lists. We had it in CJ's text somewhere.

Forest. Forest. Yes, that's right.

Perfect. Okay, good job. Word.

I translated stuff. I don't know. What do you think?

Oh, I like the beginning already.

[Speaker 3]
Can you use the microphone closer to you, Geshe-la? Please?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, sorry. CJ knows how it works. Okay.

Okay. This is for that. That keyword here is men's Simba.

Oh, already have? Yeah, you got to say that because that's the whole point. Yeah.

I thought that before and then I forgot I thought it. You know what hit me while I was reading it this afternoon was they did their thing. They already did their thing.

They already did their thing. They already opened. They already opened into the higher realms or the lower realms.

Yeah. Good. Yeah.

Okay, good. This is the same as food. Yeah, good.

YUS SU CHEN PO means... Pear? Yeah, already cooked and on the table.

It specifically means that. And it's the only seed in Stanley's Abhidharma text. And it comes later.

But it's like food which is cooked and on the table. Yeah. What's the implication?

You can't uncook cooked food. Yeah, you don't need to cook it again. It's already ripened.

So CHES ZIN means it already did its thing. The stove already did its thing. The thing is cooked already.

Okay. And why is the Sanskrit important here? Is it paka?

Vipaka? Vipaka, yeah. Which means...

Cocina. Yeah, cooked. It means cooked.

So this... Yeah. So this probably comes from some ancient Sanskrit source where they said, oh, the example...

By the way, I think this comes from Mahayana Sangraha. So it makes more sense in the Sanskrit. The vipaka has already popped.

Okay. Okay, good. This is the Sanskrit.

It's already been cooked. Yeah, you're... I don't know.

Ready to serve, you see. You're serving. It's already on the table served.

It's cooked and served, okay? And it's not going to be cooked again. No need to cook it again, okay?

Good. Yeah, I put the... I put maturity because I thought it was going to be easier to understand or something.

But I don't think it gives the full feeling as well as cooked does. So, you know. But it's okay.

When you say already ripened and then you say it's similar to... That's okay. I think even if we don't know that ripened equals cooked, we still get the sense of it, right?

Okay. You're doing well on your translations, by the way. Okay.

Yeah. Mental seeds which have not done their thing yet. Mental seeds from a backtrack for expression.

Seeds that come from time with no beginning. To be expressed and experienced through education. No special type.

This should be to be experienced and has been experienced or something? It's supposed to be past tense. No, this is object and subject.

Oh, that's why. Yeah. So, it inspires in the human mind many different...

Elaborations. You could say elaborations or impressions maybe of what is held and what is holding. Objects and subjects.

Yeah. Without any special intention involved. Okay?

Why does he say that? Why does he say that? Yeah.

Because it's neutral. Why is it neutral? Well, he's emphasizing the difference from the one before.

CES ZIN PA. Okay? So, that was like karmic maturations, which definitely implies some kind of intention.

And then this, in the Mind Only School, we're getting a nice extra insight into seeds for expression here, which are the seeds which name all things. The seeds which name all things. And according to him, it's been going on so long, it's no longer traceable to a single intention or something.

It's just been going on forever. And you get the impression of objects and subjects going on without any special intention. Okay?

Cool. And you just get it, SKAD TZAM NAS. Yeah, SKAD TZAM NAS means just from being born you get this.

Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah.

All you have to do to have these is to be born. But to have a good birth or a bad birth, that takes some previous intentional work. But to have these impressions of subjects and objects, that everybody has just from getting born, because they've been going on, cause-effect, cause-effect, cause-effect, since forever.

MTHONG MA MED PA NAS Since time with no beginning. Cool. Got it.

That's a very fascinating distinction, if you ask me. Oh, look, there's stuff in your life that's nice, and there's stuff in your life which is lousy, and that can have some intentional good deeds and bad deeds that you did in the past. But the fact that you think there's stuff outside, and there's stuff inside thinking it, that's just been going on forever.

Or things get called blue, or things get called other side of the room. He said outer objects and distance, right? And things get called good, bad, everything.

That's been going on forever. It's an interesting distinction to me. It's not just some...

It's not that... If you don't think about it, it feels like he's just repeating dry classifications. But if you really think about it, it's very profound.

There's parts of your life, the feeling of subject and object has been going on forever. And then what the subjects and objects experience, the roses or the popcorn, those are coming from specific good and bad deeds. But the whole fabric of reality, subjects and objects, is something that's been multiplying on itself for time with no beginning.

The feeling of subjects and objects is almost a separate seed. That's what he's trying to say. That's very interesting to me.

I mean, a Madhyamaka guy wouldn't say that, right? A Madhyamaka guy would say your impression of a world of subjects and objects is also traceable to something you did. But the mind-only school is almost saying it's too ancient to even think about where it started.

From time with no beginning. Okay, cool.

[Speaker 2]
Why is that different from the middle way position?

[Speaker 1]
Well, I think the middle way position would still nail it down to certain things you had done. And the mind-only school seems to almost be saying objects and subjects have been going on so long now that it's untraceable, but it's not. That's all.

The mind-only school seems to want to say the fact of... I'm going to unplug my computer, by the way, because it's lightning outside. The fact that you have the impression of subjects and objects is so ancient and so endemic that you almost can't connect it to a certain good deed or bad deed.

You see what I mean?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. I would have thought that we would have sort of said the same thing.

[Speaker 1]
I think we would say in the middle way that it also comes from good and bad deeds, but you just can't trace it back because it's so many or something like that. But they seem to be saying it's... They seem to be saying something more fuzzy.

[Speaker 2]
Wouldn't we still consider it lung-ma-ten? Like, just the distinction between subject and object in the middle way school isn't good or bad, per se.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, I would say that. I would say that, yeah. The feeling that it doesn't come from me, maybe, is not lung-ma-ten.

Okay. We're going to go to an important subject here. This is Grandpa.

I got a good hug today from my grandson. He was wearing his suit, okay? So I thought he should be in the mixed nuts since he had a suit.

He's got a tie and everything, I think so. Right now he's at the milk factory, so I can't show him to you. He didn't try me and Seiji.

I don't know why. Okay, mind only. Here we go.

Okay, here we go. Christina Kasica is going to check you. She has to yell across the table.

Easy! Now the fourth, which is the second division of four. Yeah, now for the second set of four.

So let's review again. How many kinds of seeds do we have? We can divide them in six, three, four, or four.

And now four more. We're on the last four. Yay!

It's going to get easier after that. That's the endless hope of the mind-only school.

[Speaker 2]
That would be another pedantic distinction.

[Speaker 1]
All right, let's go. Where are those kids out there? Oscar, let's go.

I'm going to make one mistake a line. You ready? Make a mistake anyway.

Te la ne ngen len di. Sabin ngin du chak tang. She tang sok.

Tang. That was it.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Shay. Sanyin tang chowa tang kun zinpa sognewe nyun.

[Speaker 3]
Newe nyun?

[Speaker 1]
Dunzin. I took out the pre-nasal. Okay.

Okay. Mungwa nam ki sabon no.

[Speaker 3]
Sabon.

[Speaker 1]
That's a lot. Hey, you're not offering any money. Okay, sabon.

southern. That's good. Also, it's interesting, we say nyo mon, but we say buh.

We say nyo and we say buh. It's not, it's not consistent, right? Don't say nyo, nyo mon.

Okay, yeah. Alright, here we go. The first one of the second set of four is the seed for neng ngen len word.

For taking a bad position. Which means? Having a shadow of badness.

How about an undesirable state or something like that, okay? Okay, undesirable state. Seed for an undesirable state.

These include doi chok. Desire, ignorant desire. Ignorant disliking.

Yeah, sanyans. The six main mental afflictions. Six, yeah?

Okay, including those two, right? Okay, so the sok means four, okay? Yeah, the list starting with duk and shey dong, which are the six main mental afflictions.

Yeah, now he's going to do nye we nyo mon. And the list starting with anger and resentment, which are amongst the secondary mental afflictions. Good, yeah.

So ignorant disliking is a major mental affliction. And then cho wa, which sort of means fury or something, is a flavor of mental afflictions. Okay, and kun zen is a real popular one.

[Speaker 3]
Resentment.

[Speaker 1]
It's resentment, yeah. And it's very important. We were talking about teaching anger at the next DCI World event, which everyone is welcome to come to.

And we thought resentment is important to talk about. Somebody called it old wounds. Old wounds, I think that's a nice, yeah.

Especially former partners. Okay, here we go. Second, next one.

Who's checking is... Gina, right there, yay! What is that?

Come on, give him trouble, give him trouble. chik ten pey sab ni, chik ten pey chu ye wa nam ki sab no. Alright, we'll let you go.

Usually we only see shin chung as an antidote for the first of the five problems of meditation. Laziness is antidoted by compliancy. Yeah, meaning it's funny because the antidote for the first obstacle to meditation is to get so good at meditation that you don't have the first obstacle.

But if you were good at meditation, you wouldn't have the first obstacle anyway. Okay. It means when it...

I call it in the groove, when you're in the groove. When you sit down on your cushion and it's just you're in the groove. But what's it mean here, Word?

Well, what it says, I don't know what it means. What it says is the seeds for pliancy, are those for worldly good stuff? Yeah, good.

Good deeds which are related to the world. He's using nyeng ngen len and shin du jang in ways that we haven't seen it before. We haven't seen it before this way.

Nyeng ngen len is usually that subtle shadow of a bad deed that an arhat still does. And then shin jang, in our experience, in our Tibetan language experience, it's reserved for meditative physical and mental pliancy.

[Speaker 2]
This clarifies the last one though right now, because we know that these are what plant the seed as opposed to the result.

[Speaker 1]
I guess you could say that, that's an interesting thought. Yeah, that's a very interesting thought. That's cool, that's a cool observation.

Okay, next one. And who's checking you? I did these two again.

Sorry? This is my homework. Oh, you did these two, I'm sorry.

You want to just review them without going over all the words? Sure. The first paragraph is talking about the seed for stuff that already happened.

And those basically make the realm you're in, and they're like food that's already been cooked. You don't have to cook it again. And then there are those seeds for stuff that ain't happened yet.

And those are actually just the expressions or verbalizations from beginningless time that you get just from being born, and they make up the myriad of subjects and objects in your world. Good, thank you, that's a good summary. Now we're going to go to the scriptural backup for these four kinds.

Here's the first one. First two, sorry. Checking you.

Hasso. Okay. Okay.

Yeah, so we also have that quality of taking a... The quality of being a seed for a bad situation, right? And a seed for being really good.

Okay. Now he's going to define them. Hasso, can you keep checking him?

Sure. Wow. Word, translate.

The definition of coming from a bad place refers to the mental afflictions and the seeds. Which seeds are the secondary and, I guess, main mental afflictions? Yeah, I hate to be dumb here, but are we talking about mental afflictions as a cause, or the cause for the mental afflictions?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, and this made me wonder if we're talking about definitions when we take zenny, or if we're talking about like signs, lakshana, causes.

[Speaker 1]
I think it should be almost a definition here. Okay. You want to know what's a nengen lenggi sabun?

He doesn't call it nengen lenggi sabun, but he's talking about that. What is a nengen lenggi sabun? How do we define a seed for a bad situation?

It's the seed... So my question to you, word, the seed which is the mental afflictions, or the seed which creates the mental afflictions? This says...

This just has a genitive, so it doesn't tell us. Yeah, it says all of it, right?

[Speaker 3]
But the yin, what is that yin?

[Speaker 1]
It just says which are. That still doesn't tell you if we're talking about... It still doesn't tell you.

We should skip ahead and keep going. That's my usual approach. Well, would you take...

If you think this refers to the one of an arhat, is the bad situation the cause, or is the bad situation the result? For an arhat, the bad situation is the result, right? I would say result.

Yeah, I would say result. And I'm guessing, okay, I don't really know, but I'm guessing that the seeds here are the mental afflictions, right? Well, yeah, it makes sense.

The seeds are the mental afflictions, and that's what causes being in a bad place. Yeah, I'm going to take it that way. It feels comfortable.

I hope it fits the next one. Let's go. Whose turn to check you is...

Is Gibson there? Kind of early. Emily, is your old man there?

Okay, let's go. Do some work. We're not paying you for nothing.

Shintujambe. Hey, Word, are you there? Yeah, I'm ready.

Shintujambe, tse-ni-sak-pa-tang-che-pe-ge-we-chu-gi-sa-bin-kang-yin-pao-she-rang. Yeah, translate then. I'll ask you the same question, basically.

The definition of pliancy is seeds that come from doing good things, but that are stained. Yeah, good. So is the doing good things that are stained the seed, or is the seed for doing good things that are stained?

[Speaker 2]
Again, it seems to me that the seed for doing good things which are stained is the cause, the tse-ni, for Shintujambe.

[Speaker 1]
I would say the same thing. I would say the same thing. And now it starts to feel to me that the two results are opposite, right?

Somehow, being in a bad situation and pliancy are meant to be contrasted here against each other. Yeah, Shiloh. Yeah.

I think they're just, what do you call it? I think these are all just like positives, because it just follows from what before. He's just saying the definition of the four kinds of seeds, first being a bad place, is those seeds that come from mental afflictions.

And for pliancy, the definition is those seeds that come from doing good things, even though they're stained. Yeah, I agree. That's the whole question.

I agree with the possibility. It's in a positive. I agree with the possibility.

I'm not sure which one I'm going for yet. Okay, keep going. By the way, we already had this material, but he wants to back it up with scripture.

He says, this is from the Mahayana Sangraha. Here's the original quotations that are the basis of my division into four. Who's talking?

In Tsongkhapa. In Tsongkhapa. Furthermore, we have a definition of things that already happened and things that didn't happen yet.

Yeah, and here they are. Who's checking in? Wait, wait, wait.

Is Catherine Nguyen available? Yes, Geshe-la. Come on, give him some trouble.

Make me happy. All right. Perfect.

No, don't tell him that. Too late. It all went to my head.

Okay, translate and make a mistake or two. No. The definition of things that already happened, or what is the definition of things that already happened?

It is virtuous and non-virtuous seeds that have already ripened into a ripening. I mean, it's weird, right? Hey, look at this kind of seed.

Oh, nice. It already grew into a plant. Am I any weirder than the rest of the book?

Come on. I don't know. Okay, read the next one.

Come on, Catherine Nguyen, try harder. Don't call him perfect. You're not listening to me.

All right, I'll make a mistake, Catherine Nguyen. You ready? Here we go.

Ouch. Oh, okay. Sorry.

Thank you. Hey, he's not perfect. Too late.

Yeah. Yeah, translate. And the definition of already, not already happened, or what is the definition of not already happened?

Expressions for the potentials of seeds that since beginningless time are now issuing forth as a variety of elaborations. Yay, I'll take it. All right.

Yay. And by the way, there's the actual quotation from the... Okay, it's at the end here.

MA BYAS PA'I TSE NYID NGON PAR SBYOR PA'I PA'I PHYAG GI BSAL DANG TE Okay? I believe it's pretty much word for word. Okay, let's keep going.

Wait, we need somebody to check your... I see. Joy Chen, are you there?

Yes, Kesha. Take this imperfect reading and find the mistake. Okay, Joy Chen, let's see how much you remember.

I'll make a mistake, okay? Okay. Thank you.

Kena katsikek du li kids in ngi company. Uh. Gmpuhthark nyipu kepa nasabin ki mingpo meak pah'thark.

Dentro nengjoy- Oh. Oh gah! Oh, okay.

Slow down, slow down.

[Speaker 2]
Yay!

[Speaker 1]
That's what I was going to say. Keep going. Okay.

Okay, let's go to the end word. This is not what the Mahayana Sangha is trying to say. Yeah, now somebody's going to come up and give a wrong idea about che simpa and che ma simpa.

Already went off and didn't... already did his thing and already didn't do his thing. Didn't already do his thing.

Somebody else is going to come up with a new idea about what that means in the Mahayana Sangha, and he's wrong. Okay, here we go. Kachig means...

Some joker comes up with some idea. Yeah, and I'll give you $10 for the verb. The verb in this sentence?

Yeah, I want the verb that goes with kachig. Today, okay? Today.

Minken jenmyo. Zerro?

[Speaker 2]
Zer?

[Speaker 1]
Zer. Huh? Zerro?

Zer. Oh my gosh. Zer.

What book are you in? I don't know what you mean. I'm sorry, I didn't really understand the question.

That's the problem. This sentence starts with dena. Okay, dena.

Yeah. This sentence ends with gongpa mayin. Yeah.

I'm sorry about the stuff in the middle, but that's just to help us later when we're trying to figure out the page numbers.

[Speaker 3]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
And kachig, where's the verb? Kachig is one of the subjects of the sentence. What's the verb?

Gagpa? No. Tsongpa?

I don't know. It's so nice to see you make a mistake. It just gladdens my heart.

Usually, I like to see students get the correct. Okay, it's shepa in the last line. Venerable got it.

Thank you, Venerable Udpala. All right, which Venerable?

[Speaker 2]
Udpala.

[Speaker 1]
Yay, Udpala. Okay. I eliminated all the verbs for her, though.

Yeah, okay. Okay, so he says, look, some people say blah, blah, blah, but that's not what Asanga meant in his Mahayana Sangraha. And they say it about chesin masin.

So some people say that when Mahayana Sangraha is talking about already did its thing and didn't already do its thing, they say what that means is Vimitthar, respectively, already did its thing followed by not already did its thing. The first one is nyukuh kye span na suya sabun kyi nyukuh gak When a sprout has already started. Yeah.

And then when the very... when it stops being a seed. What's ningbo?

Essence. Yeah, the very essence of the seed has come to a stop. The sprout came up, so the very core of the seed has stopped.

Did his brother, did his half-brother ever have trouble with this kind of thing? I got your word. Master Vasubandhu?

Yes, that's his half-brother. Wow, you got that part right. Hey, it's a delay attack.

Give me some debate. Did his brother ever have trouble with this kind of idea? Yes.

This morning. This morning or yesterday, I don't remember. Yesterday.

Yesterday? Yesterday we did it. There was a lot of wrong ideas about first principle.

Yes, there was, about keying and not keying, and junging and yuing. Yeah, anyway, somebody said the reason he mentioned two kinds of first principles was he was emphasizing that the seed had already stopped. Then Vasubandhu's comment was, what the hell has stopping got to do with starting?

The whole book is about starting through dependence. Why in the first line would he be talking about stopping? Okay, anyway.

Keep going. He said, he said, Rinpoche, he said, look, I'm going to tell you respectively what these two refer to. The first one was a seed that had already done its thing.

That means when the sprout comes out, the essence of the seed has already come to a stop. Just like that. Keep going.

In that same manner, after you've been, after you find yourself in the higher realms or the lower realms, the essence, in essence, the thing that has already happened as a ripening, as being in the higher realms or lower realm as a ripening. Okay, let me get it to you this way. It has, the seed, the bak chak, has already ripened into the higher realms or the lower realms.

Therefore, it has already ripened. And therefore, it is mik.

[Speaker 2]
It's gone.

[Speaker 1]
It's gone. Yeah. This is another guy's idea about already did its thing or didn't already did its thing.

He says, when a sangha talks about seeds that already did their things, he's talking about seeds that aren't even there anymore. They're just like the seed after the tree grows. And so, it's too late to sow.

You can't, the concrete's already solid. Yeah, too late to fix it. Too late to fix it.

Like sojong, right? To fix it. It's too late.

Sowa jawa limpa. Okay. That, he promised us rimbatar, which means what?

Respectively. So now, he's going to describe the seed which has not done its thing. Here we go.

Dewu ma chuway bak chak. It has yet to produce a result. Good.

It's kind of a bak chak sarpa. It's a fresh bak chak. Therefore, sowa jawa yin.

You can do some repairing. It's not too late to do something about this kind of seed. These are the two.

Ni yin means these are the two. Sin and ma sin. Okay.

Che sin and che ma sin. These are the two. Okay.

That's the other guy's idea, she. Yep. And that's gongbao bayin.

Wrong. Yeah, wrong. That's not what a sangha meant.

That's not what a sangha meant. Go back to wherever you came from. Oh, I thought it sounded so good.

I don't know. All right. There's something wrong in there.

Yeah, I can't see it. Hang on. I got to fix something so I don't have to do it later.

Okay, that was a big chink. Justified. Yeah.

Here we go. Please read. Who's checking?

[Speaker 2]
The reason there's not a big difference is because there wasn't a paragraph return at the end of the first line.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, okay. Isabel, are you available?

[Speaker 3]
Yes, Geshe-la.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, give him trouble, please. Here we go. Try to make a mistake or two.

Try not to be perfect. Catherine Yen was not correct. I'll try.

It's going to be hard. Okay. Which book are you reading?

Oh, you're reading this book. Now we get to an interesting question, okay? In the Mind-Only School, when you talk about foundation consciousness, are the seeds part of the consciousness or not?

Part of it. Traditionally you say they are, right? Yes.

So, are they zed chink, is to be one to be the other? Yes. Okay, so now we're going to discuss this question, okay?

If the seeds are located in the foundation consciousness, and the foundation consciousness, just by the word consciousness, is aware, then are the seeds themselves aware?

[Speaker 2]
Okay, Mr. Perfect.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, Mr. Perfect. I'm not zed chink in that way. Come on, Mr. Perfect. Now I'm going to call you Mr. Perfect for the rest of your life. I had a friend, he was in a debate, and he said he meant to say, he meant to say something chinchan, and he said momo. Chop the leg.

[Speaker 2]
Chop the leg.

[Speaker 1]
He said hamburger, and they called him hamburger for the rest of his life. Mr. Perfect, isn't that Lord Atisha? Yeah, right.

It gets worse and worse. Why don't you read your English? That's enough.

Okay. The mental propensities relative to what supports them are neither such that to be them is to be it, nor such that to be them is not to be it. That is the question.

I'll say it in plain English. To be a seed in the foundation consciousness is not to be the foundation consciousness, neither is it to not be the foundation consciousness.

[Speaker 2]
Thank you for being so clear.

[Speaker 1]
Wait, now the guy's going to come up, and now it's interesting. Don't give up, Ben. He says, can you tell me how they are the same?

Sorry. Can you tell me how they're not the same? And then can you tell me how they are the same?

Don't worry, he's going to treat each one one by one. Here's the answer to, oh, ji tar na chik mayin. What's that word?

Well, you may ask, how are they not one? Yeah. How is it that to be the seeds is not to be the foundation consciousness?

Why would you say they're not the same? And our answer in English is, please, just for good luck, I'm trying to put a seed in your mind. This is what kind of?

Stain one? Stain one heaven. They cannot be one and the same.

Never ripen into perfection. What? They cannot be one and the same, because if they were, then the mental seeds would also display objects of awareness, and the seeds for the five types of living beings would be jumbled completely, and the realms would be jumbled together as well.

So these are arguments why the seeds live in the foundation consciousness, but they are not made of foundation consciousness. Okay? That's a pretty good...

And there's three problems that would arise if they were the same as foundation consciousness. So here we go. Go.

Today. Wait, wait, wait. Can you start over again?

Gibson, come on, let's go. Good. And I'm going to add some little words here to help us.

Okay. Okay? To be the seeds is not to be the foundation consciousness.

Okay? To be the seeds, to be a seed in the foundation consciousness, is not to be foundation consciousness. Why?

Because... Hang on, I got to fix something here. I'm sorry, I'm trying to save myself work later in about five years.

You see what I'm talking about, Utpala?

[Speaker 3]
Yeah, but you don't have to do that, I do that. Don't worry yourself. Seriously.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, we got it. Do we? No, we don't got it.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry, I'm just obsessive about it, I don't know.

[Speaker 3]
Yeah, it's a paragraph marker. So I do a pass and I'll find it, don't worry.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. Don't do a pass at word though, it's terrible.

[Speaker 3]
Okay. Not that kind of pass.

[Speaker 1]
All right. How are they not one and the same? If they were the same, shen du na means, if to be the seeds was to be foundation consciousness, then the savan part of kunshi, and the seed part of the kunshi, would have objects of its perception.

In other words, they would be aware. The seeds would be aware. If to be the seed in foundation consciousness is to be foundation consciousness, then the seeds would be watching the blue that's not really out there.

Okay. Okay. You're good, word?

Yep. I got it. All right, keep going.

We're at time again. Yeah, we're over time. We gotta finish this one line.

Okay, we'll finish this. Du na savan lam mi mikpa thang nampa mitto shepa thang gelo. Yeah, so in between these two lines, after row, the other guy said, well, I don't have a problem with that.

With what, word? He said, I don't have a problem with that. I don't have a problem with the seeds in the kunshi having their own objects.

That sounds- Nice, nice, nice. I don't have a problem with the seeds in the namche having their own objects. And then we say, well, you just God damn contradicted the famous statement, savan lam mi mikpa me.

Seeds cannot have objects onto themselves. Because they're not aware. They're not conscious.

Okay. Now, I went to look for that and I found one here in that book supposedly by Vasubandhu, right? Oh, good.

Savan lam mikpa me. Okay. Yay!

Yay! Okay, seeds don't have objects. They're not mental.

They're in the mind, but they're not mental. And by the way, when you're teaching normal people in a business course or a lam rim course, it's a very common mistake for people to say seeds are mind because they are in the mind. Okay.

And that's it. Now you can clarify for me.

[Speaker 2]
You basically had that a few days ago in words text though, that the objects out there are mind, but somehow don't have objects. And it seems like this school is using a slightly different definition of mind.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, for sure. For sure. They don't even call it mind.

They call it nambarikpa, right?

[Speaker 2]
Right, yeah. And they said those things are nambarikpa but still don't have objects, which then I'd love to know what their definition of nambarikpa is exactly.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Oh, yeah. We'll get to there.

For that and more, tune in next term. Yay! I don't know how I can wait.

Don't give up now. Okay. Sashimi, word.

[Speaker 2]
Sashimi, Oscar.

[Speaker 1]
Thank you so much. Try some Japanese food. Congratulations.

By the way, big congratulations on finishing your first book. I still say, and I'm not exaggerating because I never exaggerate. You're exaggerating but not exaggerating?

That your book about the mind that you already finished is the best one ever written in the West. Yay!

[Speaker 3]
Congratulations.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, Uncle Ward. Sorry to remind you. I know, you're trying to make sure I don't go home, right?

Yeah, sorry. Yes, Grandpa has to pee-pee every 10 minutes. You don't know that?