Вордсмит — Книга 2: Трудные места школы «Ум только», занятие 21

[Speaker 1]
She was, she was. Yeah, yeah. Oh no, Amelie.

She tried to ride her bike down the steps. I don't think so. I've done that.

That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, look how I turned out.

How old is she now?

[Speaker 3]
She's going to be two on October 1st. How old? She's, she's going to be two on October 1st.

Yeah, all right. Get to it. Sorry, words.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, I'm going to start. So we have more time for my class. So homework, turn 14, quiz three, homework.

Okay, whoever's here. What is the range? Wait, should this be phenomena or phenomenon?

Range of phenomenon. Phenomena, right? Phenomena.

Plural. Phenomena. Okay, I think, I think sometimes maybe it's British, but they write it with an E.

Yeah, but don't do that. That's a British thing. I know.

I'm not going to write J O with a G either. Okay, what is the range of phenomena that this, that the seeds for expressions cover? Anything you can be aware of?

Everything. Yeah, but what, from what, what's the range from what to what?

[Speaker 2]
From the tiny thing to the big things.

[Speaker 1]
No, that sounds like some Abhidharma thing. Come on, get out of here. It was potatoes to enlightenment.

Pretty much. Yeah. How do you say potato in Tibetan?

[Speaker 3]
It wasn't what he said, though. I don't remember. No, that's Shogo.

Starting from form to all the things in the universe, omniscience.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, Shoge.

[Speaker 3]
Potato, Shokina, same thing.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, Shoge momo. They're the best momos. Visible form to omniscience.

Um, how do you say that in Tibetan? Suk tam chay khyampa par.

[Speaker 3]
Shuk la tam chay khyampa par.

[Speaker 1]
It's even easier than that. But I mean, that's right, but.

[Speaker 3]
Yeah, I don't remember.

[Speaker 1]
Anybody else want to try anything? I guess not. Suk nay nam khen.

Oh, yeah. Easy, schmazy. Uh, why does Master Sun give a different list in his summary of the greater way?

Different than suk nay nam khen of stuff that the expressions do. And name the elements of that list. No one's going to remember.

I had to put something in my homework, though. Fair enough. I do the same thing.

Yeah. Uh, it's OK. I try to keep it simple, too.

It says it's just more examples. He just gives more.

[Speaker 3]
Oh, yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Sorry. Here we go. Um, does anybody remember anything on that list?

Perhaps someone with notes with first name. Last name. No, I know.

Mind only just mind only is great for insomnia. It would be written like in the introduction to your book. That's how we should advertise my book.

Bimble says, the golden key to a good night's sleep. OK, don't remember. Something about the cents pounds.

Time number objects and conventions. Whoa. OK, I'm going to make Ben Kramer.

Because I know he can translate time number objects and conventions.

[Speaker 2]
Like, um, do. Yes. Um, I'm down.

Strong, strong, strong. Objects, as in you'll maybe. Yes, perfect.

And conventions. I don't know. Uh, that's nice.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, and they got it. Good.

[Speaker 2]
Cool.

[Speaker 1]
OK. Um, OK. What is the telling phrase uttered by Jason Kappa, which indicates the difficulty of this work?

[Speaker 2]
Oh, yeah. But it's enough to study tantra. It's enough to master tantra.

He said it seems, or I think so. Yeah. Oh, I think so.

That's right. I think so.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Perfect. Yes. Good.

Good job. OK. Now, this is my attempt at translating.

I got to put my glasses on. OK. OK, hold on.

This is already wrong. OK, I wasn't sure if Nampadrikpa was mentalist in this case, or mental consciousness. Uh, I would say just, um, perception, right?

OK, so consciousness, or? Yeah, consciousness is OK. OK.

Or state of mind. The state of mind which differentiates between dak and shen. OK.

Uh, it's that state of mind, sabun le chung.

[Speaker 3]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Comes from? From, uh, this comes from the seas of the perception that there is some self. Perfect.

That's a difficult sentence. Yeah, good. Very good.

Excellent. By the way, by the way, I'm dying to say this for like a week.

[Speaker 3]
Oh.

[Speaker 1]
Do you guys agree with this? I mean, do you think that's the point of saying there's a self? Are we trying to remove the distinction between me and you?

No. Is, is the self, when you say myself, is that the non-existent thing? Is that the?

When you say me and you, is me the gaccha? No, no, no, it's not. This whole, uh, sentence I'm uncomfortable with, you know.

Oh, you, you make it, this sounds like some yoga studio philosophy. You know, it clarifies it in the next line though. Hey.

I'm just making fun of you guys. Not all yoga studios. I went by the best one in town today.

It's also the worst one in town because.

[Speaker 2]
It's the only one in town. Not a yoga studio.

[Speaker 1]
That's why I always tell dogs, you're the best dog in this house. Okay. What about this one, Jen?

Oh, let me check it. De la jing san la dang, bach chen she kyang se. Oh, yeah, it's got propensity for viewing.

I, I would say propensity for viewing because it is, it, it comes before the viewing. You see what I mean? Okay.

It's the seed that turns into the viewing. Okay, yeah. Uh, for viewing your existence has, has been destroyed.

Well, there's a big debate about what jigsaw is, right? I know, I know. I thought about that.

Yeah. I thought better in context though. I would say, I mean, I'm afraid you're gonna have to translate this as something like, this is the propensity for the view of the, for the view of destruction.

This is the propensity for the view of destruction. Which is to say, it's the seed which, which causes the view of destruction. You see what I mean?

Oh, because of the chair? Yeah. Yeah, the de is the colon, right?

We also call this propensity to see the view of, we also call this the propensity of the view of the, of the destruction, of destruction view, I call it, because it's the seed for destruction view. That's all. That's all.

Well, Genla, isn't the de a positive, a positive visor here? Not here. No, not here.

It's a, it's a, it's the, um, we should go there to eat tonight, colon. Oh. It's the second, it's identifying the second element of the logical argument.

Okay. Take the, take what I just described. It's the seed, it's the propensity to see me and mine, basically, because it's the seed to see me and mine.

That's all. And he just didn't want to repeat jigsaw latawa, so he shortened it to jigtaw the second time. Oh, I thought, I, I thought because he said in the first one, jigsaw latawa utawe bakchak, and then the second one, he said jigte sabin, that he was a positive, a positive visor.

Uh, no, it's just, uh, he's being cute. He's saying, ah, this is the propensity for the view of destruction because it's the seed for the view of destruction. Oh, okay.

Just saying it's a propensity because it's a seed. That's okay. Okay.

Yeah, nice, but you did a good job. But, but listen to the logic here. Listen to the logic here, okay?

In Master Sugeng's text, the first link of the Wheel of Life uh, is the view of destruction. Yeah. Because it get used, it gets used to the idea that me and word are different, and therefore it sees some kind of self.

You see, that's a very crude interpretation of self-nature. Me and you, you know, that, that's why I said the joke about the yoga studios, you know. Yeah, he's here.

Just, just, yeah. I felt really uncomfortable with these two lines, yeah. It's not very Tsongkhapa, if you ask me.

No, right Tsongkhapa, circa 14th century. What is, again, I'll repeat my, my discomfort. He says, we call this the seed of viewing a self-nature because you, it's planted, but I think you and other people are different.

Okay, and that's weird, you know. I'm sorry, the, the seed of holding me in mind to, to be not coming from seeds, okay, is what causes us to distinguish between me and nur. I mean, it's not, it's not very classical, you know.

I mean, does it have something to do with the mind-only Gakja that we think that things come from separate seeds or that? But I don't remember seeing that kind of thing, you know, that they don't have to price the difference between you and me much. But anyway, it's just, it's just kind of fascinating to me that they would go there.

Because the point is, when I look at Tim, it's, it's not, the point of self-nature is not that I think I'm different from him. It's that I see him as having a self-nature, and I see me as having a self-nature. And the self and self-nature doesn't mean myself, you see what I mean?

So it's a, it's a equivocation of the word self, okay. It doesn't mean you and me. Me means self-existent in me, which you are also self-existent in me according to that, okay.

Anyway, let's not pick on him. We'll let these guys go, the two brothers. NAM DU SAMSO Where is the NAM DU SAMSO?

It's before, it's in the text. I can't see it on my screen. We had it earlier in the text, I just put it...

Oh, NAM DU SAMSO, I'm sorry, yeah, you're right. NAM DU SAMSO, it seems to me. I think I...

It's like, I think I got it. Yeah. I think I got it.

All right, nice job, Mr. Word. Very nice job. That's a hard sentence.

And that sentence was really bothering me. Okay. Okay, here we go.

Yeah, right here. BDAG DANG GZHAN DU MYUR BA'I RNAM RIGS BYUNG BA'I SRAB PA This is the seed that makes you seem separate from me. And therefore, it's the seed of BDAG DANG, of seeing things as self-existent.

But I don't think it's a...

[Speaker 2]
I don't like it. I mean, we haven't emphasized it much, but wouldn't we have to say that in this school, when you see other people, you're seeing your KUN CI RNAM RIGS BYUNG BA'I SRAB PA?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, that's true. Well, we're going to have a huge debate about it coming up.

[Speaker 2]
But it deserves one.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, please read Word. And Dr. Kramer just volunteered to check you. I just translated this one again.

Oh, this part too? Yeah. I didn't see the SHES SO in your translation.

Oh. Yeah, it means he's quoting Mahayana Sangraha, okay? This line is quoted from the Mahayana Sangraha, okay?

In fact, Geshe-la should have done this to your text. According to the new oud polish rules. Sorry.

Yeah, we would put the Tibetan like this. Okay? This piece here comes directly from a Sangraha.

Okay? Okay. Yeah, I didn't translate SHES SO.

Yeah. Okay. Keep going.

Kramer is checking you. I did that one too. I'm on SUMPA.

I'm sorry. Okay. Okay.

Now, please read something new. Okay. Okay, so we're talking about a group of three different kinds of seeds.

I think we're supposed to do six, three, four, and four. We're in the three now. And the six were impossible.

I was so happy that we got out of the six. But for the three, we had... What was the first one?

The seed for... Inner? Those three.

Expressions. Good. Perception of a self.

Yeah, for the perception of a self. And now we have a seed for... The seed which is one of the links of the Wheel of Life, really.

Or the seed in the sense of contributing to samsara. Samsara component seed. Okay.

What's dzugshe? Enter. How the senses enter.

How they engage. Good. How...

Well, here it's how the awareness of the senses engage. So, it's like... I don't know.

When I smell the popcorn that Noor made, that's a dzugshe. Okay. My sense power of the nose is giving information to my awareness of my sense power of the nose.

And they are both engaging in the popcorn. Dzugshe. And that engaging of your senses in the world could be gyewa or mi gyewa.

It could be virtuous or non-virtuous. Yeah, so depending on... He's kind of saying depending on your mental state.

Then how you mentally engage the world. It could be virtuous or non-virtuous thing. Shakpa means...

Dzogpa means gyewa. Yeah, it's a place, foot, smear. Yeah, good.

This shakpa means... This third seed is planted by awarenesses which are either virtuous intent or non-virtuous intent. This third seed is planted by thinking nice things to people or thinking bad things to people as you engage in them mentally, okay?

And as a result... I'm sorry, let's go to the end of the sentence. This is a kind of saban, see, which gives the mirage, which gives the appearance that you are gyewa, towa, and gyewa.

Dying, moving on, being born. Yeah, so it's interesting. It's like in DCI, we talk about walking through a door.

Yeah, the first seed is that the door opens as a big door. Sorry, small door. And then there's a big door and then there's a small door.

And that means you walk through the door. So when this seed opens, you have the illusion of dying and moving and reborn, okay? And depending on the virtuous or non-virtuous component of your original state of mind, you will go to a dendo or a ngendo.

Higher realm or lower realm. Yeah, as we had in Seiji's text this morning, I think. No, we just had it in Stanley's text.

Oh. And didn't we have it in Seiji's? I don't know, anyway.

Okay. Okay, good. So this is interesting.

This is the seed, the specific seed, that creates the illusion of dying and moving on and going to a higher place or a lower place. Very interesting. Okay.

Yay. Okay, and then he quotes, again, guess the book, and I'll give you two cents. Mahayana Sangraha.

Yay, okay. Xiaoping, the biggest bet I ever made. Two cents for a word.

Okay, and yeah. Well, I mean, you know, he's probably going to call me if we don't pay it. So yeah.

All right, please read. And Tim wants to check you. I don't know why.

Hey, Tim, I'm going to make mistakes for you. You ready? Just for you.

[Speaker 2]
What am I, chopped liver?

[Speaker 1]
Ben, you don't need any mistakes. I put my mute on. I can't hear him.

[Speaker 2]
I'll put it back. Much better.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, I'll put my. Okay.

[Speaker 3]
The first part, I couldn't hear it all. So whatever errors you make, good job.

[Speaker 1]
I made them all on purpose too.

[Speaker 3]
It was very gringified. I liked it.

[Speaker 1]
All right, you guys can hear me. Okay, yeah, it just says the same thing. Okay.

Yeah. Oh, I think I did. Oh, here we go.

Sorry. Okay, good. I would, I challenge you, Word, on your homework to do a mushi-musu maybe between these three.

The seed for expression, the seed for viewing a self nature or a self, according to this guy, and the seed for sansara, basically, okay? Sansaric movement. Moving through, okay?

Mushi-musu with three things, is that like? Yeah, well, no, I'm just saying it might be interesting to explore, you could on your homework, you could say, give me something which is number one and number two, both. Oh, I see.

And not number three. I'm curious your opinion, if these three are mutually exclusive, is the point, you know? Normally, when you say, I'm going to tell you three kinds of seed, if it's one, it shouldn't be the other, but I'm not sure here.

And I think... Yeah, there's quite a bit of overlap. I'm guessing, but I want you to explore it, okay?

Okay, I'll do it again. Let me make a note of it. I'm not personally sure, and I didn't take the time to flesh it out, but you're going to.

Okay, Sengeng Xu, you are checking this gentleman. Yes, sir. Okay, one second.

He says he's going to make mistakes on purpose, I'm just warning you. Bring it on. I'll make one, Sengeng, you ready?

It's going to be subtle, are you ready? Are you sure? It's going to be subtle.

There's the first mistake already. Oh, it's not an English G. Thank you, Dr. Kramer.

[Speaker 2]
I like a soft pitch word.

[Speaker 1]
Well, I feel like four and a half years of work is worth it. This third one is also called what? A ripening propensity.

Yeah, karmic ripening propensity. It's not just called a... what was it before?

A sansara. Yeah, okay. Why is it called a ripening seed?

PHYAG STE. DE YONG SU MING PA RNAMS KYI NGOR GYUR PA YIN PA'I PHYIR When it ripens, that ripening is coming from karma. By the way, it's interesting that we just had this debate in Stanley's text, right?

And now we're getting a slightly different take on it. I should do a Mushi Musong, which one is RGYAS CHUNG? Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of MU's here.

MU, MU, MU. Okay. Okay, Sugeng, you're not finished yet.

You didn't detect his mistake. Try again. Here we go again.

Okay. WANG PO THANG CHUN GYI THAG LA NIR RNAMS PA RIG PA SHES PA TE DAK SHES RIG PA YI NGOR GYUR PA'I THAG PA YIN RNAMS SHES NA MA YIN NO It's perfect this time. TE, TE DAK.

I forged the D's. Wait, who corrected him? Did you use your eyebrows?

I couldn't see. Hey, hey, hey, okay.

[Speaker 3]
I always use my eyebrows.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, WANG PO THANG CHUN GYI THAG LA. Okay, now this is a very important sentence, okay? This sense powers and the objects which they detect, for example, the eye sense power and the color blue, in this school, TE THAG LA, they are called RNAMS RIG.

Conscious awareness or consciousness. Yeah, they are mental state. They are mind itself.

They are mentalist mental, right? Mental. They are mentalist as in mental.

Mental as in mentalist, okay? They are mental. We refer to them as mental.

And somebody says, SHES NA, okay, do you call the eye and the color blue? When you say it's all just your mind, okay? It's all just your mind.

Are you saying they fit the definition of mind itself? Are they SEL ZHING RIG PA? What's that, Mr. Kramer?

[Speaker 3]
Where?

[Speaker 1]
Clear and knowing. Yeah, are they clear and knowing? Are what clear and knowing?

[Speaker 2]
The powers and their objects.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, blue and eyeball. Blue and eyeball, okay? Now here's the question, and it's very beautiful.

Okay, the mind-only guy says, hey, your eyeball and the blue you're looking at, it's all just your mind. And then somebody comes up and says, do you mean it perceives things and it's aware? Are you saying it's aware?

And we can't see them? Are they clear and knowing, your eyeball and the blue? And Tsongkhapa says, MA YIN.

Nah, man. Yeah, that's not what we mean when we say everything's in your mind or everything's just your mind. We are not saying that the bowl you're looking at and the white color of the bowl are themselves sentient or alive or aware.

We're not saying that. That's not what we mean when we say what? Hey, everything's just your mind.

You are watching a blue in the corner of your refrigerator, okay? And in fact, the eyeball that sees the blue is also a different corner of your refrigerator. It's all mine.

It's all in your mind. And some guy says, well, if it's all in my mind, then the blue and my eyeball, they must be sentient beings almost, okay? Okay, got it?

They must have awareness. And Tsongkhapa says, that's like the shortest answer I ever saw him give. MA YIN NO.

That ain't the way it is. It's funny, you know, you can't say this word. You ready?

Take a breath. No. I would go down and say, no.

And see, MA YIN NO. No.

[Speaker 2]
He's not going to elaborate.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, he moves on. Hey, weird if you say MA YIN NO, you're a kenyi mawa. I am a two mouther.

You're a bilingualer. I don't know. We need a new victim here.

Well, Ben, it seems like he goes on.

[Speaker 2]
We see two little- It does, yeah, right?

[Speaker 1]
Okay, cool. I don't know. Pao, Pao, you want to pick on word?

It's really fun.

[Speaker 3]
Yes.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, every third word say no. MA YIN NO. MA YIN NO.

That's what she does when I try to speak Spanish to her. That's what I do when you teach a yoga class. No.

Okay. Go slow, make mistakes. Hey, Pao, don't be shy.

Pao, I'm going to make one mistake each line. Okay, you ready? All right.

All right. What was your first mistake? I'm going to try.

ngwo por mwor che chikten na drakpa thang matak pe lola chi tar nang pa waa tar nang shak che to nice okay i like this i like this i this is more fun No, not jitabu, Shana, what's that mean? Jitabu. By the way, don't forget Tsongkhapa's last statement, which was?

No. No. No, the blue is mine, but it doesn't know anything.

And then, well, you might ask, well, why'd you say that? Yeah, good. Well, how does it work, jitabu?

Well, the five sense powers. And the five dunes. The five objects, which are visible form, sound.

I'm gonna give you 20 bucks for saying visible forms. Yay! I mean, you said it, when you saw Sook, you didn't wander around, you got straight to the absolute correct meaning.

I'm gonna give you 50 bucks, actually.

[Speaker 3]
Yay!

[Speaker 1]
So don't forget that Sook can mean visible form. And if I had a super intelligent student, they would say that. Okay.

I mean, I'm not saying, okay, okay. Yeah, I'm not gonna get carried away with that comment. Sook, visible form, sound, and the rest of the objects, those five appear, maangwa.

[Speaker 3]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
That's what we're referring to here. That's them here. And they seem...

Oh, wait. Yeah, when you chepa them. When you use them?

When you examine them. Oh, yeah, chepa, not chippa, right. Okay.

When you examine them, they seem like outer objects. And they seem chepa. They seem cut off from us?

Yeah, those chepa, be careful. No awu, no awu. With the awu, it means what?

Past tense to explain or something? Yeah, to explain. Yeah.

So this is an unusual form here. They seem to be cut off completely, kundu chepa. Okay.

What? It seems like those objects are outside A. And they seem as though they are at a distance.

Nangla. Nangla means but, really? But, really, in those instances or at that time?

Yeah, if at that time, chepa lua mindu. I mean, mindu here is, well, if their essence was not in accord with each other? I'm going to give you a proposal, okay?

It's like trying on a, sometimes I try a translation on, like a pair of pants, and then I walk around and then tell the next line. Okay, so let's put on these pants, you ready? Chepa lua mindu de.

We don't say they are made of mind. Okay. When blue appears to be across the room, and when it seems cut off.

Oh, oh, I get it. Now, our rangluk is a chepa lua mindu. Our system, even though at that time they seem cut off from us and seem like outer objects, we are not saying, it seems like that to us, and therefore we say, hey, these things aren't mind.

Yeah, we are not saying they are awareness. We say, you know, just to shock people, we call our school minoli. We say it's all your mind, but we don't mean that the bowl is thinking about how much pizza they're going to get later today, which is what the mind is focused on.

[Speaker 2]
Could it also be the world doesn't say that it's the mind? A jikten na dakwa.

[Speaker 1]
We're getting there, we're getting there.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
And now, don't ruin the punchline, Kramer.

[Speaker 2]
I'm trying to figure it out.

[Speaker 1]
In this case, we agree with jikten na dakwa.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, good.

[Speaker 1]
In this case, we agree with what the world says, with what people say. Nice, nice. Yeah, and in fact, in this case, we agree with how things appear to the ma dakpego.

So the mind which is stained or impure. Yeah, the mind wrongly thinks that the blue is outside and cut off to a distance. And when you ask us, is it made of mind or not?

We kind of taking that side. We're kind of agreeing with those guys. Yeah, look, it's an outside thing.

I mean, it appears to be an outside thing. We're not saying it's considering what to do with their taxes next year or something. It's not mental.

So in that sense, we agree with the world. Lowa tar nam shak che do. We make our decision about it according to how it appears, not to how it is.

[Speaker 2]
All right, he's still got some explaining to do.

[Speaker 1]
We still call it blue and we don't call it indecision or something like that. Yes. Even though it's made of mind in a certain way, we don't call it mind in the sense that the world calls it.

Therefore, we agree with the world in that sense of why it is not. Perfect. This is a very interesting translation.

These sentences are going to be, they can be masterpieces. They can also be car wrecks. Here we go.

Okay. You can turn my car wreck into a masterpiece. Okay, here we go.

But that's a particularly difficult sentence, I have to say. Now, guess what? Christina Kasica from the central tower of the Western world is going to check your pronunciation.

Okay. She's clear. I don't know if you can see her, you guys.

I see her. Hi, Christina. I'll make a mistake per line.

Here we go. Tak shing chepa na dey tar. Is it a na word?

It is na. It's not dey though, but okay. Na dey tar nangwa dey shepe tang teni.

Tang. There's an error. I said it.

I said dey. Tang shen du mey pa yin dey kun pa pa yin dey ero. Okay.

Yay.

[Speaker 3]
Bravo.

[Speaker 1]
That was bloody.

[Speaker 3]
No errors.

[Speaker 1]
Okay.

[Speaker 3]
No errors.

[Speaker 1]
Okay.

[Speaker 3]
That was a joke.

[Speaker 1]
If you're Doc and if you're Jay. To examine and consider. Yeah.

You'd have to say the fact that they nangwa that way. The fact that they appear in that manner. Is ju de mey pa.

Is inexpressible. Yeah. Meaning, very interesting.

You couldn't really say it was shepa. You really couldn't say it was awareness. Good.

And you couldn't really say they are what they appear to be. And you couldn't really say they were something else. Again, again.

This is.

[Speaker 2]
Ju de mey pa bak chak.

[Speaker 1]
Remember, yeah. Ju de mey pa bak chak. This is.

No, I think we're on the... Somebody asked, what's the difference between. I think we're on the number.

[Speaker 3]
Five sense powers and five objects.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, but as bak chaks that ripen. I think this is the, from the beginning of the book, it says ju de mey pa bak chak. I think we should go back and at least look at that based on this.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Oh, okay, okay. Got it.

I got it. Oh, okay. I don't know.

Let me see ju de mey pa.

[Speaker 2]
You guys had a multi-year detour because Je Tsongkhapa said ju de mey pa once.

[Speaker 1]
Exactly.

[Speaker 2]
He says it again. We better have our haunches.

[Speaker 1]
Wait, are we talking Golden Key or are we talking this book? Oh yeah, no. I think it was when we were in Golden Key.

No, it's this. It's in the beginning. Right after the intro.

Again.

[Speaker 2]
It happened because we couldn't make sense of this. Right, yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Genma, put tu, tu mey. Ju de mey or ju de mey? Yeah, ju de mey, yeah.

Okay. Go back. That's the one we're on.

Yeah, keep going. Back, yep. Yeah, here we are.

Yeah, see? Ju de mey pa pa. That's the hint.

Dimitri. Oh. Yeah.

Yay. Okay, to translate this later. I do it this way to myself later.

To translate this, go down to ju de mey pa pa. Okay, yeah. Okay.

We will definitely remember. Yeah, it only took us four and a half years. Yeah, don't worry.

Okay. But I'm still not sure about one thing here, to be honest. Talking Chimpanzee is easy.

By the way, for $50, can someone give me another famous reference to this?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. Are you gonna guard for us? If you don't look more closely, it seems things exist.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, good. $50 for the Ezra Scholarship Fund. Yeah, ma tak ma chepar is the way Ben was gonna say it.

Ma tak ma chepar. If you don't look too closely. Famous, famous Madhyamika expression.

If you don't look too closely, everything's fine. Ma tak ma chepar. Here he says, let's tak him chepar.

Yeah, let's look closely, okay? de tar nangwa When things appear to be blue, or to be an outside object, or to be at a distance, de shepa dang de ni dang shen du chud mey pa I would say, by the way, this is not three elements, okay? I would say, I'm gonna make myself a note.

Take this as two elements, okay? As far as it's being mental, it is neither that itself, nor otherwise. Okay, it's inexpressible.

You cannot say, the blue is my mind, and you cannot say, it's different from your mind, okay? But now it makes some sense, right?

[Speaker 2]
Talk about yoga studio philosophy.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, you cannot say the blue is thinking, but you can also not say it's separate from your mind. But it makes sense in the terms of the mind-only school, because we're talking about, if there's a kunshi, then the kunshi is mind, but not mind that is aware in the way that the mental consciousness is aware.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, right, but then it'd be nice if they would assert an alternate definition of mind, but that's not something they're doing for us.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, maybe further on. Yeah, and then now he pulls out this word that we had in Utpala's text this morning. Kuntak?

Kuntak, yeah. It's imaginary. The blue is imaginary.

So you cannot say it is the mind, and you cannot say it's separate from the mind.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, but it's Shen Wong, it's not Kuntak. Kuntak.

[Speaker 1]
I don't know, in this school, it's imaginary. Oh, the impression that it's outside is imaginary.

[Speaker 2]
Kuntak. The impression that it's not mind.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's not mind and that it exists on a distance. But these are beautiful sentences.

These are going to be classics, Mr. Wu.

[Speaker 2]
And isn't that ignorance, by the way?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, in this school.

[Speaker 2]
Well, Ben, then they're saying it is mind.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, by the way, I'm not making fart noises at you, Ben.

[Speaker 2]
I knew that, but it somehow seemed the perfect moment.

[Speaker 1]
It was only Maitre just bounced off the computer screen.

[Speaker 2]
Obviously, you're mad because Maitre's on my side.

[Speaker 1]
Why are you on, Maitre? If you're on my side, smile right now. Hee, hee, hee.

He look at me like I'm crazy. Okay, let's move on. Okay, I'm ready.

Wait, I need someone good to pick on you. I can give you a screen. You want it?

Okay, wait. Aisha says blue is an archetype inside the mind, right?

[Speaker 2]
No, not on screen.

[Speaker 1]
She wrong. Okay, wait. I got your checker coming.

We imported one. Two. We got the expert, Maitre, and we have his advisor, his assistant.

Can you see my grandson? Yes. He's shy.

He's not shy. Okay, here we go. Don't forget, he's gonna make some mistakes on purpose.

Okay, Noor, pay attention.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Tena tuntu nangwar ni mix la... Mi, mis.

[Speaker 2]
Ah, got it.

[Speaker 1]
Mutek targi tak tang so'o... Tang. Maitre says something wrong, I don't know.

Yeah, he didn't like that spell.

[Speaker 3]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Ok ma tar gi... What is it? Where are you?

[Speaker 3]
He's right here.

[Speaker 1]
Ah, gi, okay. Ki ga dul pren... No ran, right?

Ten. Ten. Tren.

Tu takpa namni ma trupe. Te tak nangwar... War.

Ni rik la sungzin rikpe keg... Keg. Like birthday cake.

Uh-huh. Keng nyungwa tesu mikpe. Okay.

Pir nang...

[Speaker 3]
Don't say pir. Chir.

[Speaker 1]
Chir. Chir. Chir nanggi sepa ni te tar nangwar yin keng te la yi ki...

Ropaks pa yi no. No, it's... Taks.

Taks. Takpa. Takpa.

You know. Hey, Koko. Why are you so serious right now?

He just woke up. I'm sorry, okay.

[Speaker 3]
No, it's okay. Thank you.

[Speaker 1]
My grandson is... Maitri is looking at the screen. My grandson is in a mood.

Mine only puts me in a mood to... I understand. Don't worry, Maitri, you're in good company.

Dena... Therefore. Yeah.

Dun dun nangwar. How the sense powers appear, how the objects appear. Yeah, how blue appears to be blue.

Mi. Dun dun nangwar ni mik la. They just appear to be objects.

Okay. Okay. We look and they appear to be objects.

Now he jumps to... Mutek.

[Speaker 2]
Ay yai yai.

[Speaker 1]
The Stoolists.

[Speaker 2]
Kirtikas.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. He jumps to non-Buddhist schools of ancient India.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
And he says, you know what? They believe in a dog. And they believe in a soul.

They believe in a self and they believe in a... Ishvara. Like a...

Chit soul. Chit soul. Yeah.

Thing that invented, created everything. Yeah, you can say creator God. And this dog doesn't mean self-nature, it means...

It means creator too, right? It means... Atma.

Yeah, the creator of the world. Atma. Okay.

Atman. Okay. So why...

We got to start worrying, right? Did somebody mistype the book? They suddenly jumping to some Jupiter text.

What's that got to do... You know, it doesn't have anything to do with what we're talking about. He said, jikten drakpa, right?

I'll challenge you guys with something, okay?

[Speaker 3]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
This is how I take it, and I may be wrong, because this is hard. But I take it like this. If you met one of these non-Buddhists of ancient India, and you said, can you explain to me why something looks blue?

They would say... God made it. God pulled it out of his pocket yesterday, and he's showing it to you.

But you don't know. Because the God part is invisible. Okay?

It's not what it seems. That's the point. It looks like just the outer blue that was made by chemicals and stuff like that.

But actually, there's this guy who created the universe in seven days, and he pulled the blue out of his pocket, and he's showing it to you. I'm sorry you can't see him behind the blue, but he's there. Okay, got it?

Yeah. And then there's Rang De Okma. There's the lower schools of our tradition.

That we just had the last hour ago. Yeah. And they say, oh, look, word.

When you look at the blue, like, you don't really understand, but there's actually tiny little dill trends there. There's little sock dills. Yeah.

It's actually just a bunch of atoms. And look, you can't see it, but trust me, it's atoms. So he says, look, you got guys telling you, trust me, the blue was made by God and presented to you.

And then you got these other guys saying, trust me, it's a bunch of atoms, but you can't see them. Okay? But that's what's really there.

Okay? Just so you know, we're over time. Yeah.

And the blue doesn't exist the way you thought it does. Mudroom. Okay?

DE DAG NAG BAR MI RIG NA GSON TZE RIG PA'I KHA'I KYANG NYANG PE ZIN MIG PA'I CHEN NANG GI SHES PA NI DE DAG NAG BAR MI RIG NAG BAR MI RIG NAG PAR YI KHAI LTOS PA PA YIN NO Let me try that last part. Oh, I got a suggestion. That's the word.

Word can translate it. I want a good translation of this paragraph next time. Okay, let me just try really quick, and then I'll write something better.

No, I want you to suffer. We're over the time. We should give time for...

It's quite difficult. It's extremely difficult. But I want you to wrestle with it, okay?

Haven't I suffered enough? No, you have not suffered enough. You stole my money year after year, and I need revenge.

So I'm giving you this sentence.

[Speaker 3]
You've got to work in that word. It's like, haven't I suffered enough?

[Speaker 1]
I'm telling you, it's extremely difficult, but I think if you crack it, it's going to be one of the most beautiful sentences in your book. I already have a sense of it. I think I'll do okay.

I'll try. I think so. I think so.

And I may be wrong, okay? I just, you know, I think that's where he's headed, that things aren't what they appear. But just because they aren't the way they appear doesn't mean you have to accept the other guy's explanation necessarily.

Well, it says drone dog at the end, so it has to be something like that. Yeah, exactly. Okay.

Okay. Okay. Oh, I'm sorry.

It has been declared that it's a pizza time in Sedona's time zone. Okay. Yum.

[Speaker 3]
Thank you, Geshe-la.

[Speaker 1]
All right. See you guys tomorrow for more suffering. Thank you for awesome classes today, Geshe-la.

That was amazing. Thank you. I had fun, and I'm so happy to be back with my friends.

I'm all smiles. Okay. I'll see you guys tomorrow.

See you. Bye, Ken. Thank you.

Bye. Good job, Maroon. Stay on the call, everybody, because you have a Q&A coming up with Venerable Utala.

[Speaker 3]
Can you guys hold on just a second? Who's the translator? Who's the Q&A with?

That's what I was saying. Venerable Utala. All right.

Cool. Yeah. Venerable Utala.

[Speaker 1]
All right.