Вордсмит — Книга 2: Трудные места школы «Ум только», занятие 17

[Speaker 1]
Hey, Word, are you there? Yeah, I'm right here. You ready?

Oh, you look so handsome, my God. Where are you, Tucson? Yeah.

Hi. Let's start. I guess everyone else is asleep.

That's fine.

[Speaker 3]
Oh, we're here, ready to go.

[Speaker 2]
They would have been asleep in a few minutes, right?

[Speaker 1]
Adam, you feel okay? You got tuned. Yeah, I'm feeling good.

Okay. All right. Let's see here.

Okay, Word, you ready? Let's share a screen. Okay, for everybody on the call, we have other good news for our wonderful sponsor.

And we finished this second book recently called The Golden Key. And that's Word's first book. It's, how many pages, Word?

It's over 300 pages. I think it's the best mind-only book ever done, period, in the modern world. And I think it's going to be very, very important for the future.

And, hey, Word, you still there? Yes. I took eight pages of this book and I taught it to the last SCIM college term, eight pages, and we used it for two weeks.

And so this book is unbelievably deep and it's the best explanation of the mind-only school I know of. And if our Mixed Nuts team didn't translate any other book in these last five years or ever, this one would be worth it, okay? And this is what Shensong brought back to China from India.

This was hot when he was at Nalanda Monastery. And this is what he got fed. And this is what he brought back to China.

And I think it's why the Tang Dynasty was successful, in part, the greatest dynasty up till now. Now the current dynasty is better, but I think it's the mind-only school thinking. And there's a very interesting discussion inside of Venerable Utpala's book where Tsongkhapa says, you know what?

This mind-only stuff is so good that it could take you through Vajrayana. You could graduate the diamond way if you understood the mind-only school system. So that's pretty awesome.

All right, you guys, Word, you ready? Are you still there?

[Speaker 2]
Yes.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. By the way, we're calling this term 14 because we had two term 11s because we thought we were going to go back to the scriptorium and we didn't. So this is Tsongkhapa's auto-commentary, his own explanation of his own poem.

And we should be able to finish it in about two years, okay? And the finished book is going to be much bigger than your first book, all right? All right.

I have a note here to myself that I think it would be good to go read a certain verse from Word's first book. Okay, Word? You all right with that?

Yep. Can you guys see this? Did you just switch?

Did the screen just switch?

[Speaker 2]
No. No.

[Speaker 1]
Can you see it? Oh, it didn't switch? Okay, wait, let's go back.

I'll go back this way. Stop the sharing and share. I suggest that we read this verse from Word's first book in order to understand the same verse in his second book, okay?

Word, do you want to read the English?

[Speaker 2]
Sure. There are the outer, the inner, the two which are unclear, that same, the deceptive, and the ultimate. All these then, the types of seeds, are said to be six.

[Speaker 1]
Now, I'm going to take you to your own commentary, okay? This is what you translated already. And do you want to explain to us the different kinds of seeds that he's presenting here?

Four kinds of seeds.

[Speaker 2]
Sure. So, Lop Sung Jigme comments on Tsongkhapa here on his root verse. And they're just going over the types of seeds.

And so the first seed that they go over is just regular seeds, which they call outer here, or chi in Tibetan. And that's, they use the example of barley seeds because Tibetans love barley. And other such stuff like roots and blue lotuses and stuff, meaning plants in general.

And the next thing, inner seeds, which is more of which the text is about. It's not a farming book, ostensibly. And it refers to what we call propensities because we can't, because there's like three words for seeds and we have to pick a different one.

And that's pakchok, which you know. And those are the things that go into the kunshi, the foundation consciousness. So, that's two.

And the next are those which we're, I'm unclear about. And so is Tsongkhapa, I guess. And these are things that are, I have to do with nyomong, which means like negative emotions, or those which have to do with after you have no negative emotions or some such thing.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, are they seeds that keep you in samsara or are they seeds that get you out of samsara? That's the third category, okay? And what's the fourth category?

[Speaker 2]
And the fourth category are seeds that are also unclear, but in a different way. And those are ones that are either going to show up as virtuous or non-virtuous.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, seeds for suffering or seeds for happiness, okay? Now, we got to remember, keep in mind those four and let's go back to Tsongkhapa's more difficult commentaries, okay? Here we go.

[Speaker 2]
Yay. Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Now we get confusion. Oh, sorry. Wrong one.

Yeah, here we go. Okay, now we're going to Tsongkhapa's own expression. I think, Word, you translated ahead, right?

[Speaker 2]
I think we touched on it and I just- Am I right? Yeah, I wrote what we said.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. Let's, well, it's two sentences. Let's do them.

Do you mind? Is that okay? Yeah.

Okay, please read and Nick is going to check your pronunciation.

[Speaker 2]
Okay. Okay, good.

[Speaker 1]
Good. So when you have contact, does that create seeds in the kunshi, in the foundation consciousness? And good means what, Word?

Smearing. Yeah, good. Like what's an example with perfume?

[Speaker 2]
Jasmine or garlic.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, like on a sweater, like on a piece of clothing. So, gupa is how they describe in the mind-only school, how seeds are planted in the refrigerator of foundation consciousness. And it's not like you put a seed in a box.

It's like you spray perfume on a sweater and then it gets stuck in the sweater. All right. Guh dum mi guh.

Okay? When you have like contact, is it going to plant a seed or not? Okay?

If you say contact of the mind with the object creates a seed then seeds must be planted by things other than mental events. Okay? And if you say contact cannot plant a seed, then there shouldn't be a cause.

Okay? There shouldn't be a cause. No one planted them.

[Speaker 2]
Go ahead. Dila. Dila gyi me dun gyur wey chir guh, guh shep pa tang.

The dak shin tu mi sel wey lung ma ten yin pey chir mi guh toh.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, dila gyi me dun gyur wey chir. Because they wouldn't have a cause, there must be some imprinting. Okay?

To have something occur, there must be imprinting of a cause. But if an action is, if a contact, for example, between the mind and its object, if the contact itself is not a very strong experience, if it's neutral, karmically neutral, then it's not clear enough to create an imprint. Okay?

[Speaker 2]
Keep going. Okay. Ong khang myun le gyi na min yin pey ma shi yiw.

Har du pen pey juk chey tu pey ni she khang chi ma lek te. Shin tu na kun shi ni ki khang guh go pey go shi mi ne pey kun dun gyur ro.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. Ong khang means, however, ngun le gyi na min yin pey, if something is a ripening of a form of karma, ma shi yi bar du pen pey juk chey, what's that mean?

[Speaker 2]
Then even if you didn't die, it would be thrown to the next life?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, it would keep, it would keep, it would keep, until the time you die, it would keep up its influence of creating an object. Ni she means you hear both positions, but I like the chi ma. The latter.

Yeah, otherwise, okay, and I know it's confusing up to here, but here's the point. Kun shi ni ki would be doing the goa.

[Speaker 2]
Kun shi itself would be doing the smearing.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, so this gets into an interesting question. Do you have foundation consciousness? Yes.

Is it aware of things? Yes, it's a consciousness. Is it the place where you plant your seeds?

Yes. Does being conscious with foundation consciousness create seeds or not?

[Speaker 2]
It would have to, because that would say.

[Speaker 1]
This is a difficult position, and somebody says, no, because then there's no place that would plant its seeds. Okay.

[Speaker 2]
So there's not two parts of the kun shi?

[Speaker 1]
Don't forget, two parts of the kun shi is the icebox, the refrigerator, where you keep your seeds, and the seeds in the refrigerator, right? Yeah. But the point is, the refrigerator is also watching the world.

[Speaker 2]
Exactly.

[Speaker 1]
It's also a consciousness. Does the refrigerator, does the foundation consciousness, by being conscious, plant seeds? And Tsongkhapa's saying, I kind of like the people who say no.

Yeah. Why? Because it's where you plant your seeds.

If where you plant your seeds was also planting seeds, well, then where would you plant them?

[Speaker 2]
But if where you- He doesn't like it. Well, I don't like the fact that the place you're conscious of is the place where you store your seeds, so let's just get rid of the whole thing.

[Speaker 1]
Well, I don't know if that's what you're conscious of. Yeah, I guess you could say that. You're conscious of seeds opening in your foundation consciousness, okay?

So the question, the main question of this last three sentences, which I think we did cover before, is if foundation consciousness is not just a place to store your seeds, but if it's also a kind of mind or awareness, then shouldn't it also be planting seeds? And then they say no. And then you say, why?

Well, because it's where you plant your seeds and it's not planting seeds, okay? Gen la. Meaning I guess you can't plant seeds on yourself, okay?

[Speaker 2]
Gen.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
In the mind or awareness defense, they do specify that the foundation consciousness is mitra, right? It lacks, it's fuzzy, and it believes in a self of- I don't know about that, but what if I say okay for now? Well, I would say that it would be a defense of Jason Koppa's opposition of the latter, because then you can say, yeah, yeah.

You can say it doesn't know what it's doing. His hesitation.

[Speaker 1]
His hesitation to say it plants seeds.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
And here he says, go shi min ye, there would be a problem. Ken, what? The foundation consciousness couldn't find a place to plant its seeds.

Yeah. Okay, yeah. Okay.

Yeah, shintu misawa'i luma ten yinpichar, yeah. Yeah. That's a nice sentence.

It says, it's unclear. So it's karmically neutral, and karmically neutral entities don't plant seeds. It's only good deeds and bad deeds that plant seeds.

The foundation consciousness itself is neutral. Therefore, it cannot be planting seeds, because you can only plant seeds by hurting somebody or helping somebody. How's that?

Cool? All right. Yeah.

Okay. Okay, here's the part where we really want to start to cloud. Go ahead.

Who's checking you is Nick, I guess.

[Speaker 2]
Nick.

[Speaker 1]
Or Amalie, or Jarua.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, good.

[Speaker 1]
We saw four divisions of seeds already in the Golden Key. And now we get a more complicated one. He says, by the way, the Golden Key is the secondary commentary.

Now we're on the main commentary, which is by Tsongkhapa, which is more difficult and much longer. Okay. Then, if you yewa bachaks, tushik means, word, tushik.

[Speaker 2]
There are many ways to divide the seeds. No, it's a question. Oh, oh, you may ask yourself, how many ways are there to divide the seeds?

[Speaker 1]
Good, yeah. And he says there's four ways. First, you could divide into?

Six. Then you could divide into? Three.

Or you could divide into?

[Speaker 2]
There's two ways to divide into four.

[Speaker 1]
Nice, perfect, perfect, perfect. It's a pleasure to be in class with you again. Seriously.

Okay, so let's do this division into six. We're gonna divide all mental seeds. We're sorry, we're gonna divide all seeds into six.

Okay, there we go. There's our same verse, okay? And I have to say that the commentary we translated already was so good that I haven't seen any need to change our translation of the root text yet, so far, okay?

Which is good news. Okay, the explanations are so similar that we don't have to change the translation of the root. Okay, all right.

And, okay, read the first sentence here.

[Speaker 2]
CHI SABA NI NE TANG UD PA LE TSA WA TABU E YO TABU E YO Um, first, um, it doesn't say first, but it refers to first outer seeds, such as barley and the seeds of the roots of the bluish lotus plant.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, I guess lotuses are something you have to grow from cuttings and not from seeds, okay? So he's just saying, you know, it's like a cutting from a blue lotus, okay, of the root. Okay, that's the first kind of seed, is the outer seeds in nature.

[Speaker 2]
What's the second kind of seed?

[Speaker 1]
Please read.

[Speaker 2]
NANG GI SABA NI KUN SHI SABA NI CHAO What's that mean? Inner seeds, like those which are located in the foundation consciousness.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, good. They make up part of foundation consciousness. Okay, good.

That's inner seeds. Those two categories are familiar to us. Now we've got a third category.

[Speaker 2]
Go ahead. MI SABA NI NI MI SABA NI LUNG MA TEN PA YIN TE TE LA TEN PA KO NI NUNG MONG TANG NAM CHANG GI MI SABA AM GE WA TANG MI GE WA NI MI ZEL BA'I PHYIR RO Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, two kinds of unclear seeds. Okay, two kinds of unclear seeds. What are they?

Well, it's not clear whether they are... Neutral? Well, they are...

Yeah, one kind of unclear is that they are karmically neutral, okay? So it's hard to say whether they belong in the samsaric side of things or they belong in the enlightened side of things. Or you could say it's unclear whether to categorize them as good deeds or bad deeds, okay?

They're unclear in two different ways, okay? All right. By the way, I want to just see if my numbers...

We're supposed to have six, right? Oh, where are they? Yeah, okay, way down here, okay?

We're... Don't worry, it's coming. All right.

Okay, we didn't just have six? So what he calls... No, we just had three.

And it was a big pain in the ass to figure them out. Okay. Category number three of the six is two kinds of unclear seeds, okay?

All right? Meh. All right.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, ni, ni. Ni, ni, ni, chi, sab, and tang, nang, gi, sab, and no. Those are the two inner...

And those are the two of... Those are the inner and outer two.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, and that's going to take some work, okay? And by the way, you could go to the key and you'll get an explanation of that sentence, okay? All right.

Please keep reading. Nick, you still there? It got quiet.

[Speaker 2]
Yes, sir.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, you didn't see my thumb up.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, okay. Go ahead, Lorde. Teh tu ki tika, che kachi kilu...

Oh, just tick. Oh, that's a mistake. Tick.

Che kachi kilu ki ni ni su mi sel shen dunpa tar na kun ne nyongmong tang nam chang ngam de mi gyir che na te tak hang du yang mi sel wa lung du ma ten pao.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, according to some people who've written commentaries on the Mahayana Sangraha, which Tsongkhapa has been using as the basis of his whole presentation, who wrote it?

[Speaker 2]
Arya Asanga.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, okay. So according to some people who wrote commentaries on his book, when it says dunpa here means to recite out loud, right? But he doesn't mean that literally.

He just means, look, when you say, when you're reading the Mahayana Sangraha out loud and you say ni su mi sel, unclear in two respects, what it means is kun ne nyongmong dang nam chang nam. It's unclear whether it's the negative emotion side of life or the enlightened side of life, or is it the virtuous side of life or the non-virtuous side of life? It's unclear in both respects.

And therefore, it's nyongmaten, karmically neutral, okay?

[Speaker 2]
Or you could say, go ahead. Yangna, ni shepa kun shi nam she te ni nyongmong pe chu nam ki sabun chen yinpe kun ne nyongmong pe chen nam njong we te tak tang yun dre tang nam chang ki chu nam ki sabun yang ne sam. Ten ki nyongpo che pe te tak tang yun dre su kyor pe ni sop.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, Yangna, you could also say, that here when it says two, we could be talking about just the single foundation consciousness, okay? That because it has seeds for the negative side of the universe, okay? Because it has seeds for that, you could say that all the negative events in the universe come from it, okay?

And then it's cause and effect. Whose cause and effect? The kun shi is the cause, and the result is samsara, okay?

All right? Or you could say, nam chang ki chu nam ki sabun yang ne sam. You could also say that the foundation consciousness is the root of enlightenment, okay?

So in both senses, okay? Ten ki nyongpo che pe. It acts as a...

Ten ki nyongpo here means it acts as an entity, which is a foundation for something, okay? Big mistake on the spelling here, okay? Kyun dre kyi go, dre su kyor pe ni sop, okay?

So then you could say that the word two in the original text by Arya Sangha is talking about two cause and effect chains here. One, where the foundation consciousness is creating the samsara, and one pair, and then a second pair where the foundation consciousness is also creating nirvana, okay? Or enlightenment, okay?

So he says, oh, that's another way to read the two, right? Two sets of cause and effect.

[Speaker 2]
So it's not the seed, which is unclear. Okay, here we go. It's the result of the seed, which is unclear.

[Speaker 1]
Say again?

[Speaker 2]
It's not the seed, which is unclear. It's the result of the seed, which is unclear.

[Speaker 1]
That's one position, yeah. Okay, yang na means alternate position. Keep going.

[Speaker 2]
Yay. Tethar yang dun sang tu miselwa ni shippa ni, gewa tang mi gewa ni sam. Kun ne nyungmongpa tang nampar changwa ni misel shing, yung su miselwa te.

Lung dru ma tenpa sheja we ta tikko.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, now we get a different interpretation from the commentary to the Mahayana Sangha, right? Which was attributed to Master Vasubandhu. We had a debate about it.

And in there it says, hey, I have an idea about what the two unclear ones are. And he gives a different presentation. Gewa and mi gewa, good deeds and bad deeds.

It could be talking about those two, okay? That set of good deeds and bad deeds, rather than the first set being the cause of samsara and samsara, right? Let's talk about it in terms of the set called good deeds and bad deeds.

And then the second of the two is the division of reality into samsaric and enlightened. Okay? Ni, this is the things that are unclear, okay?

And the reason they're unclear, miselwa te, is because they involve lung ma tenpa, okay? He says, Vasubandhu says, when we say unclear in this context, we're just talking about it's too wimpy to call it either way, because it's karmically neutral, okay? Doesn't qualify as good deeds or bad deeds.

And it's too neutral to qualify as samsara or enlightened. So neutral states of mind are unclear. And unclear means karmically neutral, okay?

That's all. Tathagomi is just another way of saying karmically neutral. When you say unclear here, it's saying it's neither good karma or bad karma, nor is it the samsaric side of life or the enlightened side of life.

It's just too neutral to be either one, okay? What are they talking about? Probably kunshi itself, right?

Kunshi is supposed to be neutral. Why?

[Speaker 2]
Because if it wasn't neutral, then it would taint good with good and bad.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, nice. If the foundation consciousness itself were inherently good or evil, you couldn't plant good or evil seeds there, it would taint them. Nice, good answer.

And here's the opinion by that book, if you're interested in it, it's here, okay? And I put it in big letters and he quoted it correctly, okay? All right.

Keep going, please.

[Speaker 2]
Mm, kachik ni nisu shendun te. Saben ni gewa tang mi gewa nisu che tam. Kun ne nyungmung pa'am.

Nampar changwa nisu chena mi sel te. Lung dhuma ten to, she jawe tono.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, and this is actually a continuation of the same quotation, okay? We're still inside of this commentary on Asandra, okay? We're still inside of supposedly Vasubandhu's commentary on his half-brother, right?

And it says, kachik ni nisu shendun te. Some people say, divide it into two, okay? They, what?

Saben ni gewa tang mi gewa nisu che tam. When you talk about lentil seeds, you have to investigate whether you're talking about good deeds or bad deeds. Or you have to investigate whether it's the samsara side of things or the enlightened side of things, okay?

When you do try to investigate it in these two ways, it's gonna come up mi sel. Unclear. Which means it's lung dhuma ten.

[Speaker 2]
Neutral, unpronounced by the Buddha.

[Speaker 1]
Yay, good. Okay, keep going.

[Speaker 2]
Te la chi saben ni lung dhuma ten. Pa te lung dhuma ten pa mi ki mi sel wao.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, that's an interesting statement. Hey, by the way, chi sabens.

[Speaker 2]
Are also neutral.

[Speaker 1]
Wait, what's chi saben mean? Oh, outer seeds. Yeah, like corn seeds, rice seeds, wheat seeds.

They are karmically neutral, okay? Why? Because in terms of being, they're neutral in terms of being karmically unclear, okay?

[Speaker 3]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
They're not specified as, like wheat seeds are not good deeds and bad deeds. They're just sitting there, okay? Last part of the quotation, here we go.

[Speaker 2]
Nang gi yang ge wa la sok pe, ngor mikpe chir mi sel wa ino she tang.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, and those outer seeds also don't exhibit any kind of clarity as to whether they are virtuous or not, okay, as the inner ones are, okay? Got it? All right.

We're treating a category of seeds. We finished inner seeds and then we finished outer seeds. And then there was another category of seeds, a third category of seeds called unclear as to whether they are good or bad, unclear as to whether they create some sorrow or enlightenment and that's actually a third general kind of seed is called unclear seeds, okay?

So, so far we got three kinds of seeds, got it? We got outer seeds, we got inner seeds and we got seeds that are unclear for two different reasons. Okay, here we go.

[Speaker 2]
Please read. She jar le kyang, mi sel wa ni lung tu ma ten pao. Ni chi tang nang ki o.

Yang na dre bu tang gyu te te. Ni ki gyu ten kun shi nang pa yang ni sel. Keep going.

Te la gyu tang dre bu nyo po. Kun me nyong mong pa tang nang pa chang wey chu. Jong wey chir she so.

[Speaker 1]
So here's another guy. His name, by the way, is Mr. Emptiness, okay? He was a gengyin.

He was a novice monk. Or, no, he was a lay person with lifetime wealth and his name was Mr. No-Self-Nature, okay? And he tries to address these unclear too as well.

And here's his opinion, okay? She jar means the exposition, okay? So he wrote an explanation of Asvanga's Mahayana Sangraha and he says, wait, wait, wait, he raises his hand and he says, I got another idea about unclear, okay?

Well, what do you think it means? Well, yeah, it does mean lung du ma ten, neutral. Well, what does it mean then, the two kinds of unclear?

He says, well, there's outside neutrals and there's inside neutrals, okay? So he wants to read it differently, okay? Or you could say, as far as results and causes, de nyi gyi gyu tsen kun shi, the place where they live, causes and results, is also two different kinds, okay?

So he says, I'll tell you what the two means, the two divisions means. The first one is inner and outer. Or you could say cause and effect relative to the kunshi, okay?

That's why we say there's a third category of seeds. There's outer seeds, there's inner seeds, and there's two sets of confusing seeds. And they're really getting more confused now because every ancient writer has a different idea, okay?

Good luck, word.

[Speaker 2]
Keep going. DE LAG YUD DANG DRED BU'I NYONG PO'I KUN NAS YUN MYONG MONG PA DANG NAM PAR BYANG WA'I CHUN BYUNG BA'I PHYIR ZHES SO Yeah, you get samsaric events and you get enlightened events happening from entities, which are cause and effect, okay?

[Speaker 1]
That's his opinion, all right? And there's the quotation from him and it's been quoted correctly. So you're going to have to struggle with differentiating between these different commentators' ideas of what's the two unclear ones, which is the third category of seed, okay?

Which, luckily, we're done with that. And we go to the fourth kind of seeds.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Of the division into? Six. Six, nice.

Okay, here we go.

[Speaker 2]
KUN SROB PA'I KUN SROB PA'I SRABAN NI CHI'I SRABAN DE THAN NYE PA'I SHES PA'I YUL TZAM YIN PA'I CHI'I RO Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Hey, there's a fourth kind of seed when we divide seeds into six different kinds. What is it? We call it KUN SROB seeds.

What's that mean? Bogus seeds? Yeah, you could say deceptive reality seeds, okay?

Again, they are CHI'I SRABAN.

[Speaker 2]
They are also outer seeds.

[Speaker 1]
And they can only be the objects of THAN NYE PA'I SHES PA.

[Speaker 2]
Of a regular mind.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, in other words, not a mind that's looking into the nature of reality, okay? So, what we call deceptive seeds means seeds that are perceived by normal people who are not worrying about emptiness, okay? That's his fourth kind of seed.

[Speaker 2]
All right, fifth kind of seed. Yay, go ahead. DUN DAG PA'I SRABAN NI NANG GI SRABAN DE NANG PAR CHE BA NA YANG KHE LEN YUL PA'I CHI'I RO Okay, DUN DAG PA'I SRABAN NI, so what's an ultimate reality seed?

[Speaker 1]
NANG GI SRABAN DE. That refers to inner seed, okay? So, unreal seeds are outer seeds, and real seeds are inner seeds, okay?

It's kind of attractive idea, right? Outer seeds are not real seeds, but inner seeds are the real seeds, okay? Why?

Because if you really look into them, NANG PAR CHE BA NA, you'd have to accept that they exist, okay? And therefore, we call them ultimate reality seeds, okay? If you examine carefully with your wisdom, and you find them, well, those are the really cool seeds, and they are inner seeds.

So, outer seeds, even outer seeds come from those inner seeds, you see what I mean? So, they're the cool ones, all right? Keep going.

[Speaker 2]
QUN SANG THANG DZUD ZAR GI CHEN PA NGA MA THAR NA THANG PO THANG SUM PA NGA PA NAM SHAR LA CHUNG BA ZAM YIN LA ZHAR GYI CHEN PA NGI PA THAR NA SHAR CHUNG NGO Okay, good.

[Speaker 1]
To understand this sentence, you have to know Shantung. Do you know Shantung? Ancillary?

Yeah, they're not the main thing. They're just like little details. They're not the main thing in the discussion, okay?

[Speaker 3]
So- Incidental points?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, so according to those two commentaries called The Secret Meaning, which is supposedly by Vasubandhu, and the other one called The Explanation, which I think was by that lay person called Mr. Anthony, yeah, according to those two, Sherpa Nyama Dharma, according to these opinions we just had expressed earlier, then the first kind of seeds, the third kind of seeds, and the fifth kind of seeds are not so important. They're like just, you know, not very important actors in the movie, okay?

What was the first and the third and the fifth?

[Speaker 2]
First was barley. Third- Okay, other seeds are not so important.

[Speaker 1]
Third was misal, whatever that means, to whoever- Oh yeah, unclear seeds, like probably carmodyl neutral and stuff like that.

[Speaker 2]
And dundampe, Sabin.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, ultimate seeds, okay? Which he says here are inner seeds, okay? Uh-oh.

Those are just not the main point, okay? So those two commentaries say the first kind of seed, outer seeds, the third kind of seeds, the confusion seeds, and the fifth kind of seeds, which is what we call ultimate seeds, they are just additions to the conversation. They're not the main ones, okay?

So what is two and four word?

[Speaker 2]
Inner seeds, like stuff in the kunshi.

[Speaker 1]
That's okay.

[Speaker 2]
And what's four?

[Speaker 1]
Kunzope, stuff that- Yeah, just normal, yeah. Seeds that exist nominally, okay? Yep.

And are just objects of awareness, okay? So that's according to those two commentaries. Now, the other commentary, Samyinla, shejar kyi sherpa nyipa tarno, according to the second explanation of shejar.

Oh, I'm sorry. According to Dunzang in the first quotation from Shejar, one, three, and five are not so important. According to the second explanation from Shejar, number two is not so important, okay?

Okay.

[Speaker 2]
All right, let's go. Theke tu yang tek chun dupa le. Kyi dang nang tang mi sel wa.

Nyi tang kunzop, nyi tang nyi. Tampe tun te te tak kun. Sabun nampa chuk tu ndu.

Ten lung ma ten ko cha wa. Go war je tang ndrel wa tang. Keep going.

Oh. Go che te le shen ten. Ten ni pak chak sen ni to.

She so.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, so he's actually quoting the Mahayana Sangraha. Okay? And I'll draw your attention.

Sankarpa's showing off the fact that he has hidden the Mahayana Sangraha in his verse. And if you're really interested in this subject about what is a mental state, you could go to a Mahayana Sangraha and see where Sankarpa just stole parts of it because he thought it was cool, okay? So here it is.

De dak kun sabun nampa du du du, okay? Now let's go back. Way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way.

We have two minutes, Geshe-la. Let's go back to Sankarpa. Man, here we go, word.

De dak kun sabun nampa du du du. He stole it directly from a Sangha, okay? And what he's saying is that if you're cool, you'll understand that I'm taking it straight from a Sangha.

Sankarpa, he just showed his secret. If you didn't notice, I'm putting parts of a Sangha straight into my verses, okay? Cool?

Let's go back to... Yeah, there you go, okay? So he says, look, we can quote a Sangha himself, okay?

There's six kinds of seeds. What? Chi, word.

Outer. Nung. Inner.

Misawa. Unclear. How many misawas?

[Speaker 2]
Two.

[Speaker 1]
Good, read across the mind, yeah. And then there's kunzo.

[Speaker 2]
Fake, bogus, conventional.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Deceptive. And then there's dendambe.

Ultimate. So how many we got? Chi, one.

Outer, one. Inner, two. Two kinds of unclear, three.

Deceptive, four. Ultimate, five. Wait a minute, that's not six.

Are two kinds of unclear. How many cells? I guess he's counting the two kinds of unclear as separate ones, right?

That's uncountable, really. Oh, yeah, we never got to six. Okay, yeah, you can count that as three.

All right. Let's do that, all right. Okay.

We're out of time. We'll count the two unclear. Okay, we'll count the two unclear separately, okay?

And that gives us six, right? And then the one, three, five will be confusing then. Yeah, it would be confusing.

[Speaker 2]
It's already confusing, it's okay.

[Speaker 1]
Let's go back to it next time. Sugeng is absolutely correct. Because if I, now I have to recount them.

So let's go back to it next time, okay? But it makes more sense that the fifth would be- Yeah, go back and split two unclears. So you get six, six total, comma, right?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
And then reread the list of which are correct. Yeah. Okay, we'll do that.

All right, thank you, Sugeng, that's a good comment.

[Speaker 2]
Thanks.

[Speaker 1]
All right. Yay, continue Zoom.

[Speaker 2]
Yay, yay-wah.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, gay-wah. All right, see you guys in the morning. What time, Nick?

7 a.m. 7 a.m., who's up tonight?

[Speaker 3]
And looking forward to it. I think it's Allison, isn't it? It is.

Yay. Allison and who else? And then we have the meeting with our best special student separately.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, okay, got it. Okay, good. All right, Allison, we'll see you at 7 a.m. Arizona time.

[Speaker 3]
So it's just one hour for the, one hour tomorrow morning. Thank you, Geshe-la.

[Speaker 1]
Thank you, everybody. Okay, have a good rest, have a good dinner, have a good breakfast. Good night.

[Speaker 3]
Oh, what does Word have to translate for next time? Oh, sorry, Word.

[Speaker 1]
The next section.

[Speaker 3]
Oh, do you hate me now?

[Speaker 1]
Let me pick a nice section for him that's not too crazy. Oh, we gotta do it either way, okay?

[Speaker 3]
Even if we forget to talk about it in class, we just go to the next part and do it. Okay, I'm sorry. In case Michael gets to give us something special.

Yep, yep, sorry.

[Speaker 1]
If you're feeling good, we can do both of these lines, okay? If you're in the mood, you could do these two paragraphs, okay? Yeah, no problem.

Okay, all right. All right, I'll see you guys tomorrow. Thank you.

[Speaker 3]
Have a good rest.

[Speaker 1]
Thank you for a great day. Thank you, Nicholas. Bye.