Вордсмит — Книга 2: Трудные места школы «Ум только», занятие 2

[Speaker 1]
One, one second, one second, you got to put your pants on, right? Why? Why?

You never know when you might have to stand up. Definitely don't have to do that part. Okay, these give a reflection.

Maybe I can't wear them. I don't know. Mine do too.

I didn't figure it out. Okay. Let's, let's go.

A little Natsang there. Wait. Okay.

Wait. My sofa. Okay.

Okay. Okay. One sec.

You didn't see that. Okay. So, what are the two parts of the foundation consciousness?

[Speaker 2]
Refrigerator and the expired mayonnaise.

[Speaker 1]
10 out of 10. Is that what's in your foundation consciousness, Kramer? I'm afraid so.

Okay. Venerable Beth said it in Tibetan, but what is it in English?

[Speaker 3]
The foundation and that which is supported by it.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, we purposely don't use the word foundation because it gets redundant, but the meaning is correct, like the basis and that which is on the basis. Okay, and what were those Tibetan words, Venerable?

[Speaker 3]
Ten.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, which ones which and how do you spell them?

[Speaker 3]
R-T-A-N and B-R-T-A-N?

[Speaker 1]
E. Both of them E's. Yeah.

Good job. Oh, right, right, right, sorry. Okay, and that gets a little confusing.

Why?

[Speaker 3]
They sound the same.

[Speaker 1]
For our audience, those are homonyms in Tibetan and that gets confusing. So you have to use Tibetan spelling, jolok, when you have an argument about them at the monastery. Okay, that was the next part.

Good job. Thank you. For bonus, Bets, what is in the ten?

Nipa, nampa, nolok? No, don't read it. Tell me.

What is, as far as the refrigerator, let's do the refrigerator just to make it easy for people. What is the riten in terms of the refrigerator?

[Speaker 3]
Oh, it's the ripened karma.

[Speaker 1]
Good.

[Speaker 3]
Is that what you mean?

[Speaker 1]
That's exactly what I mean. And what's the briten?

[Speaker 3]
The unripened karma.

[Speaker 1]
Good. Okay, perfect. Your seeds.

Perfect. I didn't include that in the quiz, but it's good review. And somebody else, what are the things focused on by the basis half of the foundation consciousness?

Results of the seeds? Say again, Stanley? Results of the seeds.

Basically, yeah. Our author Jason Copper just said seeds, but it refers to ripened seeds. And what else?

There's ten other things in two groups.

[Speaker 2]
Five five? Five five?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, what are those?

[Speaker 2]
Five sense powers? Five objects?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, exactly. Okay, very good. Five roots, five dusts, five spirits.

Five roots, five dusts, five spirits. That's what I heard. Okay, Mr. Stanley Bandu, what is objects in this case in Tibetan?

I think it's the same in your text recently. Someone's text was talking about objects with this word. Anybody else?

That is a word for something focused on, but it's not the word in this particular part. It's very common.

[Speaker 2]
It is in my text.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, it is in your text recently, Stanley. The 18, right? Six times three.

Yeah, the six objects of the Kham. Okay, sense powers. It's a fancy term for it, also used by Lord Maitreya.

Anybody? More specific maybe is a better word.

[Speaker 3]
Does everyone go to sleep during my class? So if it's fancy, it's not one, right?

[Speaker 1]
What's that?

[Speaker 3]
It's not wangpo.

[Speaker 1]
No, it's not wangpo. Yeah, that's the usual term. That would be correct.

It refers to the wangpo, but what is it?

[Speaker 3]
Chenchen.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, who said that? Me.

[Speaker 3]
Who are you?

[Speaker 1]
All the same Chinese. Oh, okay. Sorry, I couldn't tell.

Good job. Yeah, exactly. And then, what is seeds of propensities?

[Speaker 2]
Sabun.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, usually, but we use the word propensities as not to confuse it with sabun. So what's the other word? Pakchok.

Yeah, like deeper seeds or something. What is propensity in English? Like deeper habits?

Like things that you are pushed to do? Oh, ji qi. Got it.

Yeah, ji qi, that. Exactly what you said. Okay, why is it the case that the basis half of the foundation consciousness perceives the above?

I didn't want to give the answer away. Those three, those eleven, right? Yet, does not know what it is perceiving.

This was like, kind of the hard part of our class, but I wanted to at least touch on it, even though it was difficult.

[Speaker 2]
Come on. So it's not there, it's not mental function? Of the ko kun ji?

They don't distinguish? Differentiate?

[Speaker 1]
Maybe. If you can go deeper, or somebody else can riff off that. What was that?

Where's the cricket noise when I need it? Thank you. Nobody?

I did do this in the Q&A. Maybe one of our audience members, after my lengthy Q&A.

[Speaker 2]
It doesn't understand that they're inside of it.

[Speaker 3]
It sees them, but doesn't understand?

[Speaker 1]
It does. Yeah, that's basically the question of why. Or just, at least a couple words of why.

Misunderstanding. Ignorance. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean, I think you're saying it best. Can you just say a little bit more before I reveal the answer?

[Speaker 2]
It focuses on the...

[Speaker 1]
Say that again? Chumzom, I didn't hear you. Say it again.

[Speaker 2]
I'm just trying to put it together. Something about how it's perceived, and what you're perceiving.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, let's just look at the answer, then we can review. Okay?

So it says... Yeah. It sees the ripened seeds as the objects and sense powers, but does not realize it is seeing seeds, or it has been seeing seeds all along.

It is seeing seeds all along. Therefore, it perceives seeds as well by default, but in actuality, doesn't know them as such. Make sense?

So in both cases, it's misperceiving. It's misperceiving the objects and the sense powers, because they're actually seeds. And it's misperceiving the objects and sense powers, which are seeds.

And so it never sees seeds as seeds, but it sees objects and sense powers, which are actually seeds. So... Rick...

Rick Murek, it perceives, but doesn't understand. Okay? Okay, enough torture.

Dan, please save me. Thanks, Bernard. You're welcome.

Thank you for the homework. That was a nice homework, actually. I mean, if such a thing is possible.

Hey, you already confused the audience. That's good. Yay!

Uh... Okay... I gotta take over the playing, right?

Yeah, hold on. Why is it a little... Oh, here we go.

[Speaker 2]
Nice glasses, Edward.

[Speaker 1]
Thanks, they were provided by the generous Singapore team via Sugong Shi. Thank you, Singapore team. My eyes feel so refreshed when I wear them.

We are watching you now as of now when you're speaking. He looks more like a professor now. Okay.

Singapore, how? Okay, professor. Please read.

Alright, sir. Singapore, correct him. Which one?

Jenny? I mean Sugong. Okay, sorry.

Ona, sukmeki kunshi la yang nuchu nang ngam shena. Yeah. What's it say?

You can translate that. Well then, what of the kunshi in formless realm beings when in fact there's no world or inhabitants of the world that appear at all? It's a question.

Can they appear? Can the world and the beings living in the world, do they appear to a person who's living in the formless realm? Sorry, do they appear to the storehouse consciousness, right?

The foundation consciousness of a person in the formless realm or not? And here's Tsongkhapa's answer, but I would like to go directly to the commentary. Unless Shintian wants to read this verse which we already translated.

[Speaker 2]
The five consciousness function to perceive those that are a portion of the foundation which comes in an object aspect. The six type applies names to things as such that is restricted to two of the three realms. If this were not the case, then beings living in the formless realm could not have gone beyond conceptions of physical form and they would necessarily be beings inhabiting levels which were physical.

Mind appears to the mind itself as physical form. There do not in fact exist any object which are outer.

[Speaker 1]
Wow. Okay, so when in the mind only school, when you see an apple, it looks like an apple but it's not outside of the mind. You are looking in your own refrigerator.

You are looking inside of your own mind and you are seeing a picture of the apple there. Now, word is going to read this weird commentary. You said it, not me Geshe-la.

I don't want the karma of calling Tsongkhapa weird. Typical commentary. Okay.

... Okay, good. This is difficult and we're going to do BHAWA.

Power. Courage. Yeah, okay.

So, the process by which we see physical things involves the mental consciousness. The sixth consciousness has to look at them and apply the term, the mental consciousness has to say, oh look, physical stuff. Oh look, physical stuff.

THA GNYEN DO When you see in the mind-only school, when you see something physical, like an apple, it depends on your sixth consciousness saying, oh look, there's an apple. That's an apple. To see an apple in the mind-only school depends on the sixth consciousness identifying what the first five are looking at.

Okay? Got it? It has to name it apple.

THA GNYEN DO Now, so how is it going to work in the formless realm? Well, KUN ZHI LA DON DU MU ZHIG NANG BA LA Wait, Geshe-la, did you skip part? Should we say it's impossible, MI ZHIG?

No, I'm not there yet. Oh, okay. Okay, I'm going to say it again.

Anytime you see something physical, according to the mind-only school, the sixth consciousness must interpret what the first five see, and the sixth consciousness must say, oh, my five consciousnesses are looking at an apple, or smelling an apple, or tasting an apple. So KUN ZHI LA DON DU MU ZHIG NANG BA Okay? The physical objects must appear directly to the KUN ZHI, DON DU, as objects.

And DBANG PHYED NGE BRDZIN Then the five sense power consciousnesses have to hold that object, okay? And then, so far you have the object, and the object has been detected by the five powers, and the five sense consciousnesses have detected that the five powers have detected an object which is appearing to it directly, okay? And the YI ZHES DIN, which Tsongkhapa calls DRUG PAS, by number six.

Okay? Which is here, okay? But Tsongkhapa doesn't say number six in his commentary, he just says YI ZHES.

Your awareness of your mind, your awareness of your thoughts, it's naming both the object, the apple, and the detection of the apple by the sense power, okay? It is naming this, oh look, physical experience, okay? We have an apple, we have an eyeball seeing the apple, we have an eye power seeing the apple, okay?

That's almost like a sentence that the awareness of the thought, the sixth consciousness says, okay? So inside the KUN CI, inside the foundation consciousness, A LAYA VIJNANA, the sixth consciousness looks at the five consciousnesses and says, oh look, my five sense consciousness are seeing an apple, and there is an apple out there and my five sense powers are seeing an apple through my five consciousnesses, okay? So the sixth consciousness, which Tsongkhapa calls number six, but then he calls it in his own commentary, he calls it the awareness of your thoughts, it has to name both sense power and its object.

DBANG DUN GNYIS KA. GNYIS CHA means GNYIS KA, okay? Both.

So the job of consciousness number six is to identify the apple and the seeing of the apple by the eye power as it has to say to itself, oh look, physical stuff, okay? It has to TAN GNYIS DO. It has to apply a term to those five sense powers and the five objects of the sense powers, and that's how they can become form.

So they don't become physical till the mental awareness, mental consciousness says, oh look, I have five powers, sense powers, and they're perceiving five objects, things to see, hear, smell, taste, and touch. Okay, got it? They don't become physical in the mind-only school until the mental awareness says, look, physical stuff, physical stuff.

Okay? The sixth awareness has to name them physical. TAN GNYIS DO.

Okay, good. Cool? But, okay, but, okay, if you're in the formless realm, then that kunshi in the formless realm, the world and the people living in the world, MIN NANG, they don't even appear to your awareness in the formless realm, to the kunshi.

Why? And here's the clincher. GZUGS MED KYI YI ZHES KYIS The sixth consciousness, right, dukpe?

In the formless realm, cannot name things physical. It's impossible. The mind, the kunshi, and particularly the sixth awareness, the sixth consciousness of things, right, cannot say, look, apple, look, red, look, round.

Oh, look, my eyeball is detecting red and round. It cannot, it's incapable of saying that. It's incapable of applying the term physical.

Cool, ma? Cool. Okay, you look pretty confused, but I'm going to make you more confused.

[Speaker 3]
Oh, there's so many problems with that though, I mean it makes it seem like then there really is something physical out there to be perceived.

[Speaker 1]
Don't worry, we're going to have this shena here, and we're going to have some debate. Don't worry, we'll get some debate. Okay, so let's go talk the word.

DE'I PHYIR DE'I PHYIR RTEN CIG GYI KUN ZHI LA NUS SU NANG BA'I DRON NGA NI RTEN TE DBANG ZHI LA PHUGS DU GYUR DPA MA YIN NO Yeah, DE'I PHYIR, therefore, RTEN CIG, if we restrict ourselves to a single body-mind complex, okay, and he's so careful to cover his rear end, the KUN ZHI LA NUS SU NANG BA'I DRON NGA NI, five sense objects appearing directly to the foundation consciousness, okay, RTEN TE DBANG ZHI LA PHUGS DU GYUR DPA MA YIN NO, they cannot be hidden, they cannot be unperceived by the same body-mind complexes sense consciousnesses, okay? If if outside, sorry, if a physical object like a red apple appears directly to the foundation consciousness of a single person, then it cannot be undetected by the sense powers of that same person, impossible. Okay, got it?

You okay? Yeah. Okay, let's keep going.

YI TSE GCIG DUD MYUR BA'I NA, SONG CHA THUNG MONG BA MI SRID DU GZHAN NA Wow. ON NA, well then, let's take a case of a single object under consideration, right, which is being held by, for example, a sense power or a sense awareness, okay? Let's assume there's a single object of awareness, okay?

It could not be something which was held by two different consciousnesses at the same time.

[Speaker 2]
Right?

[Speaker 1]
We've been through that, right? So you can't, in this school, you can't smell something and see it at the same time. Okay?

Not the same objects, at least. Yeah, yeah. GSUM BYA GCIG GNYIS, just one, just one.

Precisely one, okay? It's impossible. Okay, DER NA, then, okay, do you agree with that?

Yes. Yeah, I agree with that. Okay, then in that case, ZHES PA LA GANG MANG BA'I DANG NYID YIN PAS CHEN, then that entity, okay, DANG NYID, which can often mean combination.

So we have to be sensitive to the two possibilities. Either it means entity, or it means combination. Okay, combined entity.

Okay, ZHES PA LA GANG MANG BA'I DANG NYID YIN PAS CHEN, then since what we're talking about involves a dual entity appearing to mental awareness, CHEN ZHES PA NYID ZAS GCIG DU RGYUR BA'I NA, the two consciousnesses would have to be the same substance. I think he's referring to, look, if the awareness of seeing an apple was aware that it's seeing an apple, of the physical vision, perception of an apple, then it would have to be aware of two different things at the same time. It'd have to be aware of the seeing of an apple, and it would have to be aware in general.

Okay, two different objects at the same time. And SUNG BYA, so anyway, it's perceiving the visual perception perceiving, got it? That the mental perception is perceiving the visual perception perceiving an apple.

So then it would have two separate objects, apple and perception of apple. And then the kung qi itself would have to split into part of it perceiving the apple, and part of it perceiving the eye perceiving the apple. Kumar?

Yeah. Okay. But for them to have a shared object of consideration, okay, is impossible, because there'd have to be, the kung qi would have to split into part of the kung qi perceiving the apple, and part of the kung qi perceiving the perception of the apple by the eye.

Then the kung qi would have to split into two. There's a problem here, okay? You cannot say that the mental awareness is watching the visual awareness as it watches an apple, because then the mental awareness would have to have two parts, one watching the apple, and one watching the eye watching the apple, okay?

Cool? All right. Then Tsongkapa says, ,GYON MED DE, That's not a problem.

Okay. ,GYON MED DE ZHIG PA LA GANG SNANG DBANG MTHE'I, ,ZHIG PA LA GANG SNANG DBANG MTHE'I, ,ZHIG PA LA GANG SNANG DBANG MTHE'I, Let's go slow, because I don't understand this very well either. ,GYON MED DE, And there's no problem.

,ZHIG PA LA GANG SNANG DBANG MTHE'I, Whatever's the thing which is appearing to the awareness, okay? No problem. The thing which is appearing to the awareness is either that combination or it's some half of the combination, okay?

DE LAS GCIG THA DE THA DE YANG BA GRUB And neither one is the case, okay? To the awareness, okay? Especially in the formless realm, okay?

It's not the case that both the apple and the perception of the apple are appearing to the mind, nor is it true that either the apple or the perception of the apple is appearing to the mind. Neither case is true. MA GRUB Okay?

Neither case. Say again? Okay.

MA GRUB NA BYAS PA NI NAM PAR BYAS PA NA If you examine it, YIN KYIS DE TSE NI THUNG BA'O BA'I KHYAD MI LEN NA So if you look into it, if you think about it, I guess in the formless realm especially, you don't have a perception of an apple by the mental consciousness, and you don't have a perception of the eye consciousness perceiving an apple, okay? And so you don't have to say, we are saying that you are perceiving two objects at once, two different objects at once. KHYAD MI LEN You don't have to say that, okay?

You don't have to say that we are saying that you see both at the same time. What? The apple and the awareness of the apple.

By what? By the mental consciousness. You don't have to say that, okay?

You don't have to worry whether it's a combination, DANG NYID, or whether it's CIG THA DE. It's either one, because it's not happening in the formless realm anyway. The sense object, DON, and the DBANG, the sense here, DON and DBANG, neither one is appearing to the mental awareness, okay?

It's not happening, okay? We never said that. Okay, let's keep going.

And by the way, it will become clearer by the end of the section. Don't worry. Or don't worry too much, okay?

MA BTAG MA BYAS PA Oh yeah. MA BTAG MA BYAS PA'I NGON NA SONG CHA MTHONG MO DBANG DUN GYANG THEG SHES PA'I TAK MI THUR MIN DU DE SHEN DUN NA PHONG PO NGAY NAM SHAK JIG PA THANG TRA SHE THANG THONG GI SER PO SOG THANG MI LAM GI YOL NAM SE SU CHROP PA YOR WA THANG SOG CHA SOG NGON NGON BA'I NGON BA'I OR THAL BA'I PHYIR RO Okay, difficult, difficult. MA BTAG MA BYAS We often use it in reference to when you walk in the kitchen, do you actually sit down and debate with yourself whether this guy is coming from your seat or not, okay?

MA BTAG MA BYAS PA If you don't look into it, if you don't examine it, yeah, there's a husband in the kitchen. That's okay, no problem. So that's a famous MA BYAS MI KA term.

Here it just means, look, if you don't dig into it too deep, okay? If you're not examining it, then you could say, duh, that there is a combined object being held, SUNG CHA. You could say there's a combined object.

What's combined? The apple and? The perception of the apple.

Yeah, the perception of the apple. This combination is being seen by the mental awareness. Okay, yeah, if you don't dig into it, you could say, yeah, both are, there's a combined object going on, okay?

If you don't examine things, you could say there's a combined object going on. But, okay? DE'I ZHES PA'I BDAG GIS DU MIN DU DE But we don't say that the nature of that is the awareness.

We don't agree it. We don't say it's part of your general awareness. Why?

GZHAN DU NA The nature of that combination? Otherwise, DE'I ZHES PA'I BDAG GIS DU MIN DU DE We don't agree that it's a combination of mind, okay? Why?

GZHAN DU NA Otherwise, weird stuff would happen, okay? Otherwise, weird stuff could happen, okay? So let's come back to this when we see what the weird stuff is, okay?

And this is extremely difficult, as you may have noticed. Okay, GZHAN DU NA Otherwise, something weird would happen. What's that?

Well, the whole system, namsak, of the five heaps would break down. Yeah. GZHAN DU NA Okay?

The whole idea of five heaps would break down. And ZHA ZHES, okay? ZHA ZHES means when you have a hair stuck to your eyeball and you think someone cracked your teacup.

Or the sink. It's called hair as a crack, okay? Well, if you look in the sink and it looks like it's a hair crack.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, there's a hair glued, especially if you're Geshe Michael, there's always a hair in the sink. And they don't seem to like to stay in my head.

And when you look at the sink, you think it's a crack, but it's actually one of your hairs there, okay? So is there a crack in the sink? No.

Does it appear to the mind? Yes. Okay?

So we're getting weird examples. If something appears to the mind, is it necessarily real? No.

So that's supposed to give us help on the first part of the sentence, okay? So we can take a ZHA ZHES, the famous hair example, or the yellow color of a conch shell. When you have Vata imbalance?

Yeah, yeah, which is a famous example. What's the other famous example along the same lines? Conch and circle.

Yeah, nice, perfect. You look at a snow mountain and it looks yellow to you, okay? Is it appearing to the mind?

Yes. Is it real? No.

Is there two separate parts of the mountain, like the mountain and the perception of the mountain? LHAG NI DU MIN DU Yeah, yeah. Now I'm going to ask you, you're looking at a white snow mountain.

You see a yellow snow mountain, okay? How many objects are appearing to your mind? Mental consciousness.

One. Which one? The yellow one.

But it doesn't exist. But it's still appearing. We already established that.

Okay. We already agreed to that. Okay.

Okay, now that gets... Now, okay, when you see a yellow snow mountain, how many yellow snow mountains are there and how many visual perceptions of yellow snow mountains are there? There are zero.

Yeah, so don't ask me whether it's one or two. Don't criticize me and say, look, it couldn't be a LHAG NI. It couldn't be a combination.

Don't ask me that. It's neither one. It's not one and it's not a pair.

It's zero. Okay. Somehow this is relevant.

Don't be sad. Don't be sad. Somehow.

And how about MI LANG GI YUL? Objects in your dreams. Yeah, you see, I don't know.

You win a red sports car in your dream, you know? And okay, now let's take those three things. The hair, which was a crack, the yellow conch shell and the red sports car in your dream.

Do they exist or do... Do they really have substance? No.

Are they real? Do they really exist? Yeah.

No. Okay, because according to you, they would. Okay, because they appear to the mental consciousness.

As an object and as a sense power detecting that object. Yeah. Or take any part you want.

I don't care. And, SUGS DRAG SOGS MYONG BA'I NGUR THAL BA'I PHYIR They would have to, on an experiential level, exist as things you see and things you hear. Okay?

Et cetera. MYONG BA'I NGUR Okay? They would have to exist experientially.

THAL BA'I is sarcastic, right? They would have to exist. By the way, let's just go, okay?

Do we understand what's going on? No. And sometimes you just keep, you know, you parachute behind the enemy and you keep going forward.

And you worry about the guys behind you later. Okay? THAL BA'I PHYIR Yeah.

GAL TE Go ahead. GAL TE SOGS ME GYI KUN ZHI LA NU CHU NANG NA SOGS ME GYI SEM CHEN NAM SOGS KYI DUN ZHIG LE MAN DE'I BAR NGYUR TE SOGS CHEN GYI NU CHU RANG GI ZHI PA LA NU CHU NANG WA'I PHYIR RO Yeah, now, this part is understandable, oddly. Yay!

Okay? And then maybe if we do a few understandable parts, we can go back and understand the other parts that we don't understand. Okay.

If the world and the people living in the world could appear directly, okay? If they could appear through the foundation consciousness of a person in the formless realm, okay? If those things, people around them and the world around them could appear to the storehouse consciousness of a being in the formless realm, then these people who are living in the formless realm would not have transcended.

Okay? Would not have transcended the conception of physicality. One of the characteristics, either formless realm meditation causal or formless realm rebirth resultant, is that you have gone beyond conceiving of physicality.

Why? Because you're no longer in this realm. Yeah, you're no longer in the physical world.

You are, it's like, if you met computer programmers like that. I mean, we used to have computer programmers at my diamond company. They would stay there all night and they would drink jolt Coca-Cola.

Yeah. And you couldn't even have a conversation with them. They were so in their head.

Like you can walk in and walk out and they didn't even notice you. You could hit them on the head with a report and they wouldn't notice anything. And it's kind of, they have gone beyond physicality.

They can't even conceive of an apple. There is so much in their head, okay? So, if you're living in the formless realm, or even if you are deep in the meditation which will take you to the formless realm, you must be beyond any conception of physicality.

You have to be, okay? If you conceived of something physical, you would drop down to a form realm meditation, okay? You couldn't sustain that state of mind.

And by the way, an important concept here in this discussion is that you meditate on the four formless realm levels. What are they in the lion's dance? The ocean?

Ocean? The sky? The sky or space?

Turning off your mind. Turning off your mind and then not paying attention to turning off your mind. Yeah, good.

Yeah, okay? So, anybody who has reached those four is supposed to not be thinking of anything physical anymore. Cannot.

Mandepak. Now, if anything physical could appear to the kunci of a person in the formless realm, then they have not transcended physicality. They have not transcended the perception of physicality, okay?

And then, oh, why? Why would they not have transcended physicality? GZUGS CAN GYI GNOD CHE RANG GI ZHES PA LA MNGUS SU SNANG BA'I PHYIR Because then a physical world and physical inhabitants of that world would be directly appearing to their awareness, okay?

So, it's not possible. It's not possible. Okay.

DOD PAR MI NUS TE DOD PAR MI NUS TE THOB PA'I NGON ZHIG GYANG NUB Not THOB PA'I NGON ZHIG GYANG NUB CHED GSUNGS PA'I PHYIR RO Yeah, nice. You cannot say that the physical world, you cannot say that the physical world or the physical beings in that world could be appearing to a formless realm, cause meditation or result life. You cannot say that.

Why? Because as the quotation says, okay? They don't say where it's from.

As the quotation says, their conception of concreteness, concreteness is nuked. Has disappeared. Has subsided, yeah.

Their ability to think of physical contact is subsided in their mind. And also their ability to conceptualize variety of objects, multitude of objects has also subsided. Now, we got two questions here that would be helpful to know.

Number one, where's this come from? Who said this? And who are they talking about?

That would be nice, right? It would be nice to know. Say again?

Hopefully they're talking about Submepas. Yeah, they're supposed to be talking about formless realm, guys, but it's always, it never hurts to check. It never hurts to confirm.

Check. Okay. About a minute and a half left, Geshe-la.

Okay, I can do this thing. Who are they talking about, A? And then B, who said it?

Who made this quotation? And luckily for you, by the way, it occurs in numerous places, but I like this one the best. This is from the Kongyur.

This is the Perfection of Wisdom in 25,000 Lines. Yes. It's kind of like medium.

And here's the quotation. And by the way, you're supposed to end all your classes today. I mean, by the time you're getting here you're much faster than I predicted.

Yeah. Hey, you guys are, it means you guys are actually speeding up noticeably. Okay.

So here, let's read the quotation. Go. De.

DE NAM PA THAMS CAD THOD SOGS KYIS NDUN ZHES LAS YANG DAG PAR MI DE STE THOB PA'I NDUN ZHIG NAM NUG PAR MI GYUR CING NA SOGS KYIS NDUN ZHES YID LA MI BYED PA'I NAM KA THA YES SO ZHED PAS This is very cool. So who's talking first of all?

[Speaker 2]
The Buddha.

[Speaker 1]
The Buddha, great. Gautama Buddha. And he's describing what realm here?

The realm of infinite space. Which is which of the formless realms? The first one.

Highest one. The first, no, it's the lowest one actually. It's the one- The lowest one.

It's the one we use the ocean for. Ocean. Okay.

It's the one, but the literal name of it is the endless sky. Okay. Okay.

It's the one that we use the ocean for. Okay. So is it causal or resulting?

Resulting. I don't think so. Really?

Oh, you know, I think it's the same. Oh. I think the cause and the result are named the same thing.

Okay. Is that true? No.

And I think this is the cause. Okay. Well, I'll check it for you.

Okay. What's happening at the first formless realm level? These guys, I guess in this meditation, right?

Have DEPA. Have gone beyond. Gone beyond.

Yang DAPA, totally gone beyond the conception of- All forms. Yeah. Every kind of physicality.

And that DEPA has two parts. Yes. That going beyond physicality, mentally, has two parts.

Number one, THOG PA'I DU ZHES NUS. Their ability to even conceive of solidity has declined. Perfect.

Perfect. Perfect translation. Yay.

And their NA MTSOGS KYI DU ZHES GYIS LA MI PHYICS. Their ability for their mind to even consider the concept of the multifarious objects is gone. Yeah.

They cannot even think of multiple things. Does it? Now you should, it should...

By the way, that's not the way it was used in the quotation. Okay. He said NA MTSOGS KYI DU ZHES GYIS LA MI PHICS.

We saw NA MTSOGS KYI DU ZHES GYIS LA MI PHICS. Okay. Which is even, THOG PA ZHES is this verb.

Why? Because this is even stronger. But I'll just leave you with a tantalizing possibility.

Okay? I will leave you with a tantalizing possibility. Tantalizing, Geshe-la.

Okay. The guy was talking about a being who could perceive an apple and who could perceive the perception of the apple by their eye, inside their mind. Inside their mind, they could be watching two things at the same time.

The apple and the perception of the apple by their eye. Okay? Right?

Yes. And that's NA MTSOGS. Oh, that's the multitude.

I bet it is. Okay? And if that's not possible, then what?

Then there's no form. Yeah. Not even a concept of forms.

Yeah. If it's not possible for the mental awareness to be aware of an apple and to be aware of the perception of the apple by the eye at the same time, then these beings are going to be born in a place where there's no form. Boom.

Because, and here's an important thing, important background information, the people who get born into the formless realm continue formless meditation there. Oh. By nature, by nature.

Okay? They can't do anything else there. Right.

They cannot be perceiving multiplicity. Multiplicity. Which means they cannot be perceiving physical things because perceiving physical things implies a multiplicity of object and sense power.

DBANG SDOD. Which is where this discussion began. SDOD and DBANG.

KU MA. DBANG KHO. FEI ZHA BANG if you ask me.

FEI ZHA HAO. FEI ZHA HAO. Okay.

Yay, word ended, and I'm free. I don't have to do your last class. Yay.

Just kidding. Yeah, we can just wrap it up there, Geshe-la. No, I'm just kidding.

We need the time. We got a lot to do. All right.

We got six more years on this book, I think. Let's make it, maybe we can make it four. But where you guys are speeding up, you actually could finish it in three years or something if we go at a good speed.

But that's a very complex argument for why the kunshi of a formless realm being cannot see the world. And that kind of implies to me something that I never thought of. Apparently formless realm beings cannot contact other formless realm beings.

Right, do they even know they're formless realm beings? That I don't know. I have never seen a very big discussion about it.

Because if they never stopped their meditation, basically, because if they died and they just kept meditating, who's to say that, how do they even know? Even Arya? Yeah, I can't say.

Even Arya's in formless realm? That's an interesting question, because there are supposed to be Arya's in the formless realm. Yeah, but Arya's only stopped three mental afflictions.

They don't necessarily stop the misunderstanding that they're a formless realm being. Yeah, okay. Now, I suggest we go through this again roughly next time.

Maybe that's why I said you're not going to go further than that. No. But no, there's some of this earlier stuff is a little still unclear.

And I gave you some homework, Mr. Wood. Study Golden Key's version of this verse. Okay.

You and me both. Let's go before your next class. Let's study what we already learned about these verses.

I will do so. Okay. Give me some sushi.

Sushi. In the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Okay, you're doing a great job, you guys are, it's so much fun to translate it with you guys.

It's like three years I couldn't really have fun and now I'm having fun, so thank you. Thanks, it's not having fun well. No, I mean I was having fun but now I'm having real fun.