Тим Ловенхопт — Книга 1: Совершенство мудрости, занятие 17

[Speaker 1]
Everybody. To do a homework Tim. No, I do.

I got something together. Yes. That's what you're asking.

All right, here we go. Good morning. I am sleepy.

All right. I think this is going to be a lot easier than last time. All right.

Here we go. First of all, here's a review, we didn't do very much so I. So this will be fun to review, how many topics and chapters are there in the jewel of realizations, sorry there's a typo.

Eight. Is that a topic or a chapter. Yes.

Congratulations. There are eight topics and eight chapters. Yay.

Well, generally, mainly. All right, good job. Here we go.

In this sentence we discovered an error. When we were translating last class. What is explain what this error is and explain why.

And use grammatical terms to We corrected it from the possessive case to the instrumental case. Yes. So, where it would have meant that the, that the top 10 job took that brief, the realization that looks like the commentary was owned by the master.

It appears that it was written by the master. Or something was done by the master I'm trying to understand exactly what this means. Well, it's, yeah, say he wrote it.

And then didn't draw would be commentary. So you need a subject. A subject that is acting to do that say.

Correct. Right. So that's why we change that.

So that's what's hanging, what's hanging Nick up is that Toka is normally a verb. And here it's just part of a title. Yeah, it was realized the realization of the commentary but then the day does make it pretty clear that he's talking about composing it.

The commentary was called easy to understand. That's all. The name of the commentary.

Cool. Yes, so that I'm guessing guess what this was. And how would they have made this error when they were going from the woodblock to the, to the, to the handwritten.

Yeah. I have a feeling, big pieces were done by memory or something I don't know, but they. It was chaotic at that time they were they were in a refugee camp and yeah.

A rough, rough place very dangerous place. So, yeah. Cool.

All right. What's a Boolean search. Why is this type of database search incredibly powerful when searching the database.

Why do we spend half of my class on that. The first question we have to answer is what's the proper way to pronounce Boolean Boolean. And what's the proper way of spelling search.

Boolean search. It's a system of algebraic notation used to represent logical propositions, especially when you're trying to search on stuff. Right.

So typically in this case it's a binary variable, or sometimes tertiary, but I don't think it's quite set up for tertiary but. Yeah, it is. You can have this or that, and, and that.

My God is there really a George and false. Everyone's using. Everyone's looking at the same this is incredibly.

[Speaker 2]
I didn't know there's a yeah. Nice Stanley there's a George Bull, apparently that we have to thank for all that Stanley just made that up. If you did I want to believe it I don't want him to tell me if it's not true.

[Speaker 1]
All right, so, so, so let's translate that into waiter language. Basically, search for one thing near another thing, which is extremely useful in these ancient books. It allows for searches like and but not.

It's a typical search. It's how you have it's like how Google searches, along with their AI, but allows us to, as I said do search near things and exclude things as well searches. And so in the Tibetan language.

Here's my question. Why is this very powerful in specifically in Tibetan language compared to say other languages, because they sometimes spell the same thing differently. One.

Right. And other issues come up like that like they, there are similar words or different words that they may have used to express the same thing, or and they are there's a ton of abbreviations. Yeah, in philosophy they are very often abbreviate ideas and stuff.

The names it's like instead of instead of Timothy Lauren how it's like Tim low. Tim low. That's a good name.

I like that you guys can start telling me that if you want, and we might. Great. That's it.

How about at the end.

[Speaker 2]
I like it.

[Speaker 1]
You see stuff like that, that's why it's so useful. Cool. That's all that that homework was.

So guess I apologize that the my vacation was two days at Diamond Mountain setting up for Diamond Mountain. Okay, I understand. And so I tried to do the bibliography part, and I, it just didn't.

I my brain just wasn't functioning around it. Do you want to do that for the next class maybe, and what do you think about it and then we can move on with the text. I'm going to let you do it I can help you at Diamond Mountain if you need some help.

Oh no, I won't be there then. Okay. All right, let's get to work then.

I did start translating the next debate in part. Do you want to show any of it. Yes, please.

Let me bail out of here. How do I bail out of here. There we go.

Okay. So this is where we were. Good.

Nice. Exactly. Perfect.

Okay. First sentence is fine. All right.

And then you can see where I didn't listen to your class. Oh. What do you want to call it?

You can call it the briefer, the briefer sutra of the perfection wisdom. They just call it something generic like that. You can call it, they call it the briefer sutra.

Okay. Okay. A group of 11 children's sutra.

Yeah, fix the lemons. Let me show you a sutra. I would just say for the second one, the sutra in a few words.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. And I would call the last one, the heart sutra. That was me.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Okay. No, it's okay. All right.

It's good. Okay, here we go. And then I'm going to put a footnote in here to find the other eight.

Yeah. Okay, good. And here's a list of the eight.

I'm assuming you put them in here, right? Yeah, they are in here. Okay, this is Tsongkhapa's Lekshe Serting, The String of Golden Beads, which is one of his...

I think it's the first major work he ever wrote. He was still in his 20s. And as I've mentioned before, it has a different flavor to it.

He was not as mature. And he kind of swamps you with information. And...

But sometimes the swamp is useful. So, in this case, you missed the 11. Yeah.

Then I got through this next paragraph, and then I wasn't sure if I was anywhere correct, so that's when I was like, let's just stop here, and then we'll move on. DANG PO RNAM MNGON GYI'I DEN DRIN CHE CHANG TSANG BA'I THER MED The DRIN DRIN CHE is a separate list of the 70 important topics of the Jewel of Realizations. Okay.

When Rinpoche taught this topic to us, knowing that it would take 50 years to go through the whole monastic textbook, he taught us a briefer textbook on the 70 topics. In fact, he had it carved, re-carved, and it was the first... It was the last carving done in the monasteries at all.

And then those guys died. They were two old men, two old brothers. So, that was probably the last book ever carved.

First... So, I had understood that the DEN DRIN CHE was a synonym for the Jewel of Realizations? No, it's a treatment of the 70...

It's just a subject matter, really, you see, of the MNTOK GYEN. And there have been separate books written about it. But if you say, what's the subject matter of the MNTOK GYEN, you've got to ask, do you want the eight topics, or do you want the 70?

Okay. GON NAS means through. It's an idiom that means through.

So... So, by setting... the Mother Sutra is...

Yeah. Through setting... set forth to explain the meaning of the 70 topics.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
The subject of the sentence is DANG PO RNAM, the Mother Sutra, right? The first TS. And the verb of this first sentence is DEN LAG PAS PA.

Yeah. They set down, or they set forth. So, this is a...

Who's saying this, by the way? This is the Akashic, still. Yeah.

So, he says, what makes something a YUM, as opposed to a SRE, right? What makes something a Mother Sutra rather than a Child Sutra is that it treats the eight topics and the 70 topics... Sorry, it sets forth the eight topics and the 70 topics, CHA TZAM, in their entirety, okay?

Yeah. So, that finishes this sentence. And GON NAS, because of that, we call them Mother Sutras, you see what I mean?

[Speaker 2]
Right.

[Speaker 1]
And then the CHI MA RNAM, which means the latter Z, right? The latter Sutras, meaning the Child Sutras. They only DEN LAG PAS PA.

CHOG RAS TZAM is an idiom. CHOG RAS TZAM goes together. And it's an idiom, and it means an isolated topic.

Isolated topics, not necessarily the whole subject. So, they'll focus in on one topic, or two topics, or three topics, something like that. They'll focus.

They'll focus in on isolated topics. And they don't set forth TZANG MA. In their entirety.

Yeah, all the topics of the NGON TONG BSKYED. Okay? DEN PA'I GON NAS And that's why we call them Children Sutras.

And because it's SER NA, this idea is... Incorrect. Yeah, it's false.

There's something wrong. What separates the men from the boys, I mean the mothers from the children, is that it's not that the Mother Sutras cover all the eight topics or the 70 topics. And it's not that the Child Sutras only treat some of them.

That's not what separates Mother Sutras from Child Sutras. Speaking of mothers and children, I'm not supposed to tell you, but V's son had his baby last night. Whoa!

And it's a beautiful girl. And she says she wants to get to know Word's daughter, okay? She came out speaking full sentences?

Yeah. Not surprised. Not that bad, not that bad.

That's her first genetic child, grandchild. That makes me a real grandpa. Okay.

Nice. Congrats Geshe-la. Yeah, somehow I felt more responsibility come down on my head last night.

The grandparents have it easy.

[Speaker 2]
They bring us all cigars.

[Speaker 1]
We'll find out. We'll find out. Okay.

Okay, that's what he says. Okay, Tim, please read. Nick, please check.

Okay. Good morning. Good morning.

I got the, hang on. Tim, you had the K right the first time in UK. UK.

Where are we? In the top line, UK. I'm just stalling while Geshe Michael is doing whatever he's doing.

Well, thank you. I appreciate that. Sorry.

I want to get you a big cursor. Hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on. Pretty big.

It's big now. Pretty big. There you go.

So, let's consider the what? Shreya Chengyi Kshigme, Tim? The Sutra in One Syllable.

Yeah, good. It must be the case that its subject matter is... I'm sorry, that it is it is treated or something?

Tenla bepa. Okay. It must be the case that it is appropriate, rungwa, to be treated by the Abhisamaya Avankara, by the Jewel of Realizations.

Why? Because... Oh, it must be the case that the Jewel of Realizations can set forth the meaning of the Prasangaparamita in one syllable by using the eight chapters to describe its...

How do you say that? The wording it uses to express its ideas. Je Je means the wording it uses to express its ideas.

Je Ja means the ideas expressed by that wording. You see what I mean? So, Je Je is the expressors, and Je Ja is the subjects which are expressed.

The expressors might be eight chapters, for example. So, it must be treated, that single-syllable perfection of wisdom, must be treated by Master Sangha's Jewel by explaining its structure in eight chapters, and explaining its content in eight ideas. It must be.

Why? Because it is a Shejjad Saray Do for the Luntoken. What does that mean?

It's a main sutra explained by the Jewel of Realizations. Yeah. Didn't we just say it wasn't in the last couple of pages?

Yes, we did. Hmm. Do you think it is or it's not?

I think he's using it to... I don't know. It seems like he's used...

We weren't even asking whether it was in the... Can we go back to the top of the... The Kachig has three or four parts.

If we keep going up... Right? So, he starts by saying...

Oh, he says if it's a root sutra explained by the Luntoken, by the Jewel of Realizations, it must be one of the 17 sutras. Right. Okay.

Then we say... Well, let's... Yeah.

So... Oh, I'm sorry. It must be one of the...

Yeah. Yeah, he says there's 17 exactly sutras that are root sutras, are the main sutras explained by Master Sangha. So, where I got lost here is that one of the examples that gets used here is the Perfection of Wisdom in One.

Here it is, right here. And that's the Kachig saying, well, it is one of the main sutras. And then in the next...

Yeah. And the next thing he said, well, it is one of the main sutras. That's where I was like, I'm lost.

Maybe there's a mistake in the Tibetan. Let me see. Yeah, then he says what separates the Mother Sutras from the Child Sutras is that the Mother Sutras treat all eight topics, and the Child Sutras only treat some of them.

Right, and then he's saying that this one sutra can be explained in all the topics, or by all the topics. Maybe? Yeah.

Oh, he claims it's a Tsawe Du. He said it's one of... There are 17 Tsawe Du's, and he listed Yige Chigme as one of them.

He said there are 17, six mothers, 11 children, and all 17 are Tsawe Du, are the main sutras. So, because it is a Tsawe Du, we are just repeating his wrong idea back to him.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
He says both the Mother and the Child Sutras, all of them are Tsawe Du, are main sutras explained by the Jewel of Realizations. They are main sutras explained by the Jewel of Realizations. And it's just that the Mother Sutras explain all the necessary topics, and the Child Sutras only explain some of the necessary topics, but they all can be considered main sutras, main sutras on the Perfection of Wisdom, explained by the Abhisamankara.

And then we say, well, if they're all main sutras explained by the Abhisamankara, whether they treat all eight chapters or just some of the stuff, then let's take the One Syllable Sutra. Are you insisting that it's a root? It's the main sutra explained by the Abhisamankara, right?

And then he says, yeah, I agree it's the main sutra explained by the Abhisamankara, by the Jewel of Realizations. And we answer, here we go, Mr. Kramer. All right.

Yeah. And don't forget we're talking about subject matter and means of expression. So the subject matter is called GZOD BYA, and it's called NGOS PO RGYAS, the Eight Ideas.

And then the means of expression, GZOD BYA, is the eight chapters. And we say, well, if the Single Syllable Sutra on the Perfection of Wisdom is one of the main sutras treated by the Jewel of Realizations, then it should treat the Perfection of Wisdom through eight chapters, or through the same kind of methodology of eight chapters. Okay?

And it doesn't. And roughly the eight chapters match the eight topics. Okay, here we go again.

Ben, you're still on. Got it. I'm sorry, Geshe-la, my head, could you say that, I'm sorry, my brain just...

He said, basically he said all the Mother Perfection of Wisdom Sutras and all the Child Perfection of Wisdom Sutras do treat the eight topics and the eight chapters, whether they do so in full or whether they do so in part. And we say, how can you ever stretch the one-word Perfection of Wisdom Sutra to say it has been treated in eight chapters? Right, okay.

Okay, still with Dr. Kramer. Oh, by the way, I'll give you a quiz here. Mr. Tim, why is this folio number so weird?

What's that capital I? Because I did it, and I know why we did it. Because there's seven in the ACIP database, there's, I think there's, the chapters are broken up into eight files.

Yeah, there's actually, your book subsumes, I think, six books. I'm not sure. Yeah, six.

Yeah, so because some of the chapters are combined. Right. You're not translating one book, you're translating an encyclopedia of the Perfection of Wisdom.

So we had to restart the page numbers every volume. So there's going to be one 5B, two 5B, three 5B, four 5B, like that. All right, go ahead, Shenyang.

Shenyang. Shenyang, do du pa de tri gye tongpa le, luk su trenpa me ripartal. This is going on.

Ripartal, because we're agreeing to this. De tri gye tongpa, tongpay leu gya shipa yinpey che. Yeah, good, so I'm going to go up.

Please don't be blinded. While you're scrolling, the live translators have asked that you highlight with your cursor the words that you're discussing when you're giving the teaching. Okay, good.

Where was I? Sorry, I got to go back. Yeah.

Okay, do du pa and tri gye pa. Okay, now I got... He lists the do du pa, right?

The Briefer Sutra, which means the Briefer Sutra on the Perfection of Wisdom. He lists it as one of the mothers. Then he lists...

He doesn't even list the other one. Oh, he does. Hang on.

Yeah, tri gye tongpa means what? Tri gye tongpa means... Yeah, the 18,000 verses.

Then he lists the Briefer Sutra separately from the 18,000 verses. He should have had a comma here, actually. In fact, there should have been...

Okay. Because he listed six, right? Gye, ding, du, chipa, tri gye tongpa, do du pa.

He listed six mother sutras, right? Now we're going to do a completely separate debate. We're going to...

Just notice that among the six mother sutras on the Perfection of Wisdom, he has listed separately the 18,000 verses and the Briefer Sutra. Those are number five and number six in his list. Cool?

Now we say, you know, your whole idea is wrong because we're talking main sutra and a single syllable can't be a main sutra. So, we don't... Where are we?

I think you're scrolling. Yeah. That's your first problem, is calling the Perfection of Wisdom in a single syllable.

Your first problem is that you call that a main sutra. Whether you're talking child or mother, it doesn't matter. All the child and mother sutras are main sutras explained by the Perfection of Wisdom, according to you.

Well, then they should be divisible into eight chapters in their treatment. And they're not. So, don't call them all.

Sorry, don't. Don't call all 17 of those sutras the main sutras explained by Master Sangha and Maitreya. They are not.

Because one of them can't even be divided into eight chapters like that. Then, moreover, among the six mothers that you listed, you listed the 18,000 verses, THUGS RGYAS STONG PA, and you also listed the shorter Perfection of Wisdom sutra, but they are not separate. LOGS SU LOGS SU means they are no separate books.

They are not separate books. LOGS SU BDEN PA This BDEN PA means to count them. It's wrong for you to say there are six mother sutras of the Perfection of Wisdom.

He says, why? And we say, you can't separate the shorter sutra and the 18,000 verses sutra. Well, yes, I can.

The shorter one is much, much shorter. And the 18,000 is much, much bigger. They are separate sutras.

And we say, no, they're not. Because the shorter sutra is actually a lieu inside of THUGS RGYAS STONG PA. Okay.

It's just one of the chapters in the 18,000 verses. What we call the briefer sutra is just extracted from the 18,000 verses. Got it?

So don't tell me there are six mother sutras. There's only five. And the fifth one, one of the chapters was broken out as a separate Perfection of Wisdom sutra.

Okay? Got it? Yeah, and what's the she doing there?

RGYAS ZHIG PA means the 84th chapter. Okay, I'm sorry. He says, look, what everyone calls the briefer Perfection of Wisdom sutra is actually just one chapter chopped out of the 18,000 verses.

And by the way, does the RANG LUG still say there are six sutras? Do we still agree to that position? Does Tsongkhapa express that position in his famous commentary?

He does. He says, we can treat it as a sixth Perfection of Wisdom mother sutra. No problem.

I don't care if it's a chapter out of the fifth one. We treat it separately. Cool?

You okay? It's true that the sixth mother sutra is a piece out of the fifth mother sutra, but it's so often treated separately, it deserves to be called a separate mother sutra. It's true it's only one chapter in one of the longer mother sutras, but it has come to be known as a separate work.

And that's all. That's all. It deserves to be a sixth mother sutra, even though it's part of the fifth one.

So how are we arguing against the Kachikanness then? We're not addressing... We just went off on a tangent.

Okay. All right.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
He said, anyway, I question that you listed six mother sutras. And he's like, what? Everybody lists six mother sutras.

And then it's just basically Ketub Denpa Dagye showing off. He says, God, didn't you ever figure out that the sixth mother sutra is just a chapter chopped out of the fifth mother sutra? He's just kind of being cute.

It doesn't really relate to the argument. You know, he said there are six mother sutras. Ketub Denpa Dagye says, well, five and a half.

Five and a half, technically. Okay. All right.

All right. That's all. He's splitting hairs.

That's how he made it a 50-year project. Okay. Then the other guy says, I disagree that the Briefer Sutra on the Perfection of Wisdom constitutes the 84th chapter in the 18,000 verses on the Perfection of Wisdom Sutra.

And we say, yes, it does. Because, Dr. Ben, you're still there. DER THAG PHYI RGYAS STONG PA LA LUS DBYA'I DUNG YOD PA'I PHYIR Well, that's true.

It is the 84th chapter of the 18,000 verses, because the 18,000 verses says 87 chapters. Okay. All right.

That's an appropriation, I guess. Is it a dak yant dak? If something has 87 chapters, then the 84th chapter is the Briefer Sutra?

No, it's not. If you write a novel in 87 chapters, is the shorter Perfection of Wisdom come from the 84th chapter? I mean, it's not very...

Compelling. He's just saying, look, didn't you figure it out? I went and got those two chapters and looked at them, which is my job as your grandpa.

I just wanted to confirm it. Here's the 18,000 verses. Here's the final line of the whole sutra.

Indeed, it does include 87 chapters. The last chapter, indeed, is 87th. Then I went to look at the 84th chapter and to see how it ended up.

Here it is. It is indeed called DGOS PA. The 84th chapter is indeed called the Abbreviation of the Sutra.

I thought you might want to see where that sutra starts. It is a sutra consisting of metaphors for the state beyond all conceptual thought. Sorry.

Sorry. I got the wrong thing here. This is not the right thing.

This is not the right thing. Oh, that's where it starts. I got to check this.

Anyway, it is indeed. Luckily, a new debate. Who do we got here?

Word, are you there? Yes. Go ahead.

All right. Kachik. I have a question.

I'm seeing a lot of spaces between Kachik and that comma. Yes, it should be like this. Look.

It's mistyped. By the way, again, this is the very first book we ever typed because it was so important. You are not allowed to put a comma after a G.

There has to be a space, and then the next sentence has to start with a comma. They put too many spaces. Keshla, do you want to add your notation that you did that?

I mean, technically, we should. We should just do it. We can maybe automate it.

Okay. I don't know. He doesn't want to do it.

Okay. It just takes too long. That's the thing.

Okay. Good. All right.

Go ahead. Drelpa Dönsel. Drelpa Dönsel.

Dato Gyen. Drelpa Yonsena. Yeah.

He's jumped to another topic. Master Haribhadra has written two famous commentaries on the perfection of wisdom. Okay?

Master Haribhadra. I don't know his dates. I'm guessing around the 6th or 7th century.

But he wrote two commentaries on the Abhisamha Ankara. Master Haribhadra wrote two commentaries to the Jewel of Realizations. Okay?

And he says, the other guy says, the one commentary by Haribhadra called Sputarta, which means the meaning clarified. Okay? The clarified meaning.

Dönsel. Dönsel. He says, that's a commentary which relates to djarwa.

Dato Gyen. The Sutra Alankara. Okay?

All right. And there's some confusion here of three different Sutra Alankaras. Okay?

There's three different Sutra Alankaras. There's three different works that can be described as the Jewel of the Sutras. One is Asanga's Mutho Gyen, the Jewel of Realizations.

One is the Dode Gyen, which is called the Other Jewel, written by Maitreya and Asanga, the Jewel of the Sutras. And then there's the Sutra Jewel. Okay?

So, you got three books here. One is called the Jewel of Realizations. One is called the Jewel of the Sutras.

And one is called the Jewel of the Sutra Group. Do Gyen, Dode Gyen, and Ngun Do Gyen. Three different books.

So, which one did Haribhadra write his commentary? His two commentaries too. Okay, got it?

You okay Tim? You're awful quiet. I'm good.

Yeah, there's three different commentaries on the Perfection of Wisdom. One is called Jewel of the Sutra. One is called Jewel of the Sutras.

And one is called Jewel of Realizations. There's three jewels. They're all commentaries on the Perfection of Wisdom.

So, he says the commentary by Haribhadra, which is a commentary to one of the three jewels. Which of the three jewels? The Jewel of Realizations.

Yeah, it's a commentary on the Jewel of Realizations. But he makes a mistake. And he says Haribhadra's commentary is a commentary on the Jewel of the Sutra.

Sutra Jewel. So, don't forget there's three different jewels. Jewel of the Sutra.

Jewel of the Sutras. And Jewel of Realizations. And he says Haribhadra was commenting on the Jewel Sutra.

Sutra Jewel. Not Sutra's Jewel. Got it?

He made a mistake. Okay, then we respond. Hey, Word, you're still there.

DEM PAS TE PAR DAG DE DUR GYEN MA BRAL BA'I BRAL PA YIN PA'I PHYIR DE NI LAS RGAGS SOGS BRAL BA MA CHE KHYANG ZHES GSUNGS PA'I PHYIR Yeah, and then we say that cannot be correct about the first of Master Haribhadra's two commentaries on the Perfection of Wisdom. Because it is not a commentary which treats the Sutra Jewel. It's not a commentary on the Sutra Jewel, because it doesn't treat the Sutra Jewel.

All right? Jarwa. It doesn't treat the Sutra Jewel.

Then he says, why do you say that? And we say, because Master Haribhadra's book includes the wording RGAGS SOGS BRAL BA MA CHE I am not explaining the wording. Here RGAGS means wording.

I am not explaining the wording. I'm not referring to the wording of what? The Sutra Jewel.

Yeah, and what he means is the Sutras. The purpose of my commentary on Master Asanga's Jewel of Realizations is not to explain the wording of the Sutras. I do not seek to explain the wordings of the Sutras.

I'm trying to give you the ideas. He specifically says, I am not treating the wording. Cool?

Who said? Master Haribhadra said that he's not treating the wording. Yeah, he said, I'm not treating the wording of the Prajnaparamita Sutras.

It's not my goal. My goal is to explain Maitreya and Asanga's commentary to those Sutras. But I'm not dealing with the wording of the Sutras.

And by the way, they are not, because that wording is very... As I mentioned, that wording, the emptiness is expressed in the Prajnaparamita Sutras through novels. Largely through novels.

They are extended novels. They're not philosophical texts per se. He says, look, I'm not going to tell you the story of Ever Weeping, who was in the park in the middle of the town and crying because he couldn't make offerings to his teacher.

This is the 8,000 verses. He says, I don't want to tell you what gifts he wanted to give his teacher or why he was crying or anything like that. I want to tell you about emptiness.

Cool. And by the way, when Haribhadra, in the first of his two commentaries, says, I'm not treating the words of the Sutra, I went and got you that. It's here.

Here he says, I'm going to try to make this easy for you and I'm not going to try to explain the wording of the Sutras. Cool. There's the quotation.

For your footnote. And there's some more commentaries on that that I was playing with. Please read, Tim.

And Word, you're still up. GANG NA RE GYUR MED TE DE DON MI ZIG GI CHA SO BAR MA CHAR BA'I DON YIN ZER NA The other guy says, look, he did say that. Haribhadra did say, I'm not treating the wording of those Perfection of Wisdom Sutras.

I'm treating the ideas. And then the other guy says, well, no problem. When he said he wasn't treating the wording, what he meant was, he's not mainly treating the wording.

CHA SO means mainly. Like LAM TSUL NAM TSUL, three main paths. CHA TSUL means that's not his main focus.

But it doesn't mean he never talks about the wording of the Perfection of Wisdom Sutras. Who's talking? The other guy.

So look, the other guy says, I think he was talking about the Sutras and talking about the wording of the Sutras. And when he said he wasn't going to talk about the wording, he just meant he's going to focus on the meaning and not on the wording. Okay, cool.

And then we say, well then, who we got? Adam, are you there? Okay, let's go.

Oh, no. Is that a prenasal dendro? Yeah, it is.

Dondro? Dondro yin gupartal. Gupartal.

Gupartal, okay. Gupartal. drelpa dun sel dog yen jarway drelpa yinpa kang shik kyi lung dun tepey chir Good.

This is cool. We say, well then. You okay, you guys?

Yep. Well then, if a commentary sets forth the meaning of a sutra, okay, doy dun ten la bepey drapa yin na if something is a commentary which sets forth the meaning of a sutra, okay, then does it have to be a commentary to that sutra? Okay, this is us criticizing him.

Okay, I'll say it again. If something is a commentary that sets forth the meaning of something found in a sutra, is it necessarily a commentary on that sutra? What do you guys think?

No. Not really, right?

[Speaker 2]
I see why it should have to be, yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, just because it's treating the subject matter of a certain sutra doesn't mean it was intended as a commentary to that sutra. Okay, got it? Okay.

Thirty minutes, Keshela. Okay, I think we can do it. drapa dun tsel do gen jangway drapa yinpa kang shi Because the Haribhadra's commentary, which is his first commentary, which is called drapa dun tsel, the commentary on the clear meaning, okay, it does comment on the jewel sutras.

Sutra, okay? By the way, it doesn't say the jewel of the sutras, okay? Just the sutra jewel.

Okay? It does comment on the sutras, okay? And your statement is correct.

gyul gyi lung dun thepa'i che The meaning of what you said is correct. What did he say? He said if it comments on the subject matter of a sutra, it must be a commentary to that sutra.

Okay? If it talks about perfection of wisdom, or if it talks about emptiness, it must be a commentary on the perfection of wisdom sutras. You see his fault, Tim?

You okay? Yeah, I think so. Okay.

He said anything that... any commentary by an Indian master after Lord Buddha, which treats the perfection of wisdom, is a commentary on the perfection of wisdom sutras. And we say makyap.

Right, because... It doesn't have to be specifically aimed at a certain perfection of wisdom sutra. It could be just treating emptiness.

That doesn't make it a commentary on a particular perfection of wisdom sutra. Got it? Then he says, well, okay, what the hell.

Yeah, Haribhadra was commenting on the perfection of wisdom sutras. And we say dum mi nye te. That's not necessarily the case, because there's two kinds of shastras.

Shastras. This is extremely important. All Buddhist literature from ancient India is either a sutra, a shastra, or a tantra.

All Buddhist books from ancient India before 1000 AD, they are all either sutras, tantras, or commentaries on the sutras and tantras. They're either sutras, tantras, or shastras. Shastras.

And then he says, look, ten gyur nam dak, this is rang lu, this is what we believe. The great commentaries from ancient India. By the way, what do you call that body of literature in Tibetan translation?

The great commentaries.

[Speaker 2]
That's called ten gyur.

[Speaker 1]
That's called ten gyur, which is ten chö gyur wa. The shastras, the great commentaries from India, they translate it. What do you call the original teachings by Lord Buddha, which they comment on?

That's called kang gyur. That's called kang gyur. And in East Tibet, where they talk funny, they call it kang gyur, in ten gyur.

But that's not the correct pronunciation. But many Western scholars use that. DUS MI NUS TE, BSTAN BYAS Here's the final point and we can stop.

Look, there's two kinds of shastras. There's two kinds of great commentaries from ancient India. One of them relates directly to the ancient teachings by Lord Buddha.

You can tie it directly to a certain sutra or tantra. But there's many shastras, there's many classical Indian commentaries, which are general explanations of Buddhist philosophy and they don't tie to a certain sutra or a certain tantra. That's called ma tenpa.

They don't relate. They cannot be associated to a specific sutra or a specific tantra. People started writing books of philosophy that were not commentaries.

Got it? Cool? So there's two kinds of commentaries.

One which is a commentary and one which is not. Cool? Cool.

All right. I don't know.

[Speaker 2]
Are we coming to a wrong loop section where are we ever going to get a concise definition of what is a commentary or sutra?

[Speaker 1]
Extremely soon. Extremely soon. But I'm going to anticipate something.

You're going to be disappointed. Because he goes off on Shinde Soji.

[Speaker 2]
When he gets to wrong loop... Innovators.

[Speaker 1]
When he gets to wrong loop, suddenly he takes off his mask and says, I'm not here to explain shastras. I'm not here to explain sutras and tantras. I'm here to explain what it is to be truly creative and innovative in how you explain Lord Buddha's teachings.

Which is, I think, perfect for Mixed Nuts. And for what we do with these books in DCI or YSI or anything else. How can you be a true...

How can you be the Elon Musk of the great books? That's what he really wants to talk about. Let's not be that.

Well, I mean the nice part. All right, you guys. How long we got, Nick?

Give us a little break. Seven minutes. Yay, Uncle Nick.

Okay, see you guys soon. Thank you, Geshe-la. By the way, we have a very straightforward book coming up.

No problem. Thank you, Geshe-la. All right, you're welcome.

Thanks, everybody. Have a nice break.