Сугэн Ши — Книга 2: Колесо жизни (первый принцип и подразделения зависимости), занятие 44

[Speaker 1]
So let me see who is translating. All right, we have Berta, Natasha. Oh, there are so many people, Natalia, Olga, Isabel, and Catherine, and Sharon.

Okay. Okay, all right, thank you. Wow, first question.

Geshe Michael has just again mentioned that the mental image of the cup is the closest to the actual cup on his table, which implies that there is a thing he calls the actual cup on his table. Is it? It makes no sense saying that I drink coffee from the mental image of the cup.

No, I think it's very important for us to really make sure the hat that we are wearing, okay. So, oh wow, another question. Okay, so let's focus on this one first.

So for Olga, Olga Afson, yeah, okay, I'll give you a chance to speak Anna. So for Olga Afson, the question, first of all, we need to understand which hat are we wearing, meaning which school are we in, before we can really answer these questions, right? And to recap, we learned that there are four major schools, starting from the detailist, and then the sutris, and then we have mind only, and then the middle way.

And then for middle way, it is divided into lower end, the higher middle way. So I think all of us are pretty familiar with higher middle way, or with the middle way, both lower and higher. If you have been studying DCI or even ACI, unless you are really new, and this is your first exposure to our group, then of course, my statement might not be valid.

But if you have been around with us, and you have heard the Penn story, then most probably you are familiar with the middle way, right? But here in Adam's book, especially when we are talking about the logic or clear thinking, and I know a lot of you might have attended the advanced level two, which is based on Adam's book on the clear thinking, right? So this is based on the second school, which is the sutris, which is the sutris.

So when Geshe Michael was explaining the translation and the context, he is actually wearing the sutris, the second school's hat. So I think you might have heard this term, the second school, the higher school, right? So be careful with the hat that you're wearing, and don't get yourself confused.

Don't get yourself confused. If you don't really, in fact, including the conversation between Adam and Ben just now, so they're actually trying to discuss and agree on the type of images based on different schools. So don't get confused on that one.

So when Geshe Michael, so based on the question posted by Olga Alphson here, in the second school, they still believe there are actual cup out there, okay? They still believe on that, meaning that there is a cup out there independent from our seeds, which is not very comfortable to all of us who have learned the pen story, who have learned the pen story. So I think we need to really differentiate on this one, okay?

I hope this can help you to at least understand a bit of the conversation here. All right. Olga, can I see a nod or a shake?

[Speaker 3]
No, I can actually add that. Unfortunately, it doesn't answer because, first of all, I would like to... My question wasn't philosophical.

It wasn't the discussion of which school thinks what thing, but my question was purely practical. It's from whatever school, please try to explain me or to prove to me that I drink coffee from the mental image and not from the actual cup, because it just doesn't make any sense to me with my mind, with whatever school you attribute my mind to. I don't really care.

I just want to understand if this statement by the high school is true, that I drink coffee from the mental image, then can you please prove it to me? Because it seems otherwise. My reality says otherwise.

I experience it differently.

[Speaker 1]
Very good question. Let's use the higher school, okay? Let's use the pen story.

I don't know whether you have heard of Yeshe Michael telling the pen story, and a lot of time after we tell the pen story, people might have the wrong understanding because the pen is coming from our seeds. It is not real. It is just a mental image, right?

In the higher school, we say that because the pen is coming from our seeds, it is real. In fact, if the pen is not coming from our seeds, it cannot be real. And when the pen comes from our seeds, it means that the seeds will open up, and then out comes the luminous image.

And then only after the luminous image is projected out to the object, then the pen will become the real pen that we can use. So similarly, on your question on the actual cup, the cup can only be real or actual in this sense when it comes from our seeds. When our seeds for a cup opens up, there is a luminous image of the cup which is then projected out and covering the object, just like the chocolate sauce.

Then there is an actual cup that you can use to drink your coffee, okay? So without talking about philosophy, this is the explanation from the higher school that we are presenting to everyone, okay? If you want a simple answer, this is a simple answer, all right?

Happy? All right, okay. Let's move on to the next question by Maria Nesterov.

There are many references in the Sutra of Self, what is that, mutilation? Ah, by the Buddhas when they were bodhisattvas, giving away their flesh and oftentimes even life. But at the same time, it is said that human life is the most valuable and precious thing there is, and a bodhisattva shouldn't even blow out candles or something like that so they don't burn themselves and get hurt.

How do these two ideas coexist? Which one is correct view? Wow, this is interesting, right?

Especially when you, if you have attended the Kyoto teaching on the art of sharing, right? Yeah, so I don't know whether you have attended ACI 7 on the bodhisattva vow, right? In the bodhisattva vow, there are vows related to the high bodhisattva, meaning that there are vows that you can only do literally if you are a high bodhisattva, okay?

Meaning, so the reason why we need to go through ACI 7 course before we can take bodhisattva vow is that first we need to understand each of the vows, and secondly, you can't take the vows literally. You can't take, you cannot take the vows literally. You need to really study it and understand them so that you can really do it, right?

For example, there is a vows saying that out of compassion, out of compassion, you are allowed not to follow the Pratimoksha, for example. So, to people who are not trained, and if you take it literally, you might just treat it as a ticket for you not to observe the Pratimoksha, the liberation vows for liberation, which is very bad, which is very bad, because they all work together. So, well, yes, on one hand, we understand that, well, I don't like the word self-mutilation.

That is very negative. They are not doing self-mutilation for something. Well, I just don't feel good using the term because they are doing those because of the request, right?

Like the Kyoto teaching, for example, King Shri Shenna is a high bodhisattva, and he wanted to give half of his body, right? In this sense, he is a very high bodhisattva, and he knew very well that what would result from his action, and how would that actually help the person asking for his half body, and he also should be able to provide guidance to the person asking for his half body, just like the special vows in the bodhisattva vows. So, in this case, I would say that you should not take this literally.

You should only do all this when you are a high bodhisattva, and if you still don't know what a high bodhisattva is all about, then I can only say that you should not do them because at the end of the day, our human body is very precious. Okay, this is what I can say. If you want to learn more, ACI is conducting a lot of foundation courses, and I suggest that you try to attend as many courses as possible to give you strong, solid foundations, basics, yeah?

But for now, since all of us are not, or maybe at least I know that I'm not a high bodhisattva, I know that I should not follow all this literally, all right? Priority number one, I need to protect my body, yeah, because this body is precious. All right, so that is my priority.

Until such day when I become a high bodhisattva, then I will follow what we learn in the Kyoto teaching, all right? So, I hope this can answer your questions. All right, okay, Anna, you want to say something?

Please.

[Speaker 2]
Yes, thank you for the opportunity, Sugeng. I have a question related to Adam's first book, it's related to DCI to Advanced, and also to what we have learned in the short weekend in Japan, yeah? It's related to a particular meditation that has been taught, the one where you are trying to find, to build the luminous image of your objective by putting in a big pile everything that is not that objective.

So, this is the topic of my question. I was trying to apply that meditation on creating the luminous image for me as a person with all the objectives fulfilled. So, let's say like a perfect state of myself, yeah?

And I have started to put in the pile besides the not living creatures, not living things, and all the people that are not me, I have started to put there also the opposites of the six perfections, so that the six perfections are part of that luminous image. And after doing this meditation several times, I got to an idea that I would like to confirm with you, because I think it's a deep idea, to put also in the pile that contains everything that is not me, my body, my flesh and bone, basically, yeah? And also my emptiness.

Because in my mind that is not perfect yet, I think that by putting my emptiness in the pile, this is the perfect opposite that will create the opposite of the opposite.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, good question. Are you done with your questions?

[Speaker 2]
Yes, yes. So, I would like to understand if my logic is correct in order to create a luminous picture of the best version of myself.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, I've been explaining about this for quite a while, since the advanced level two. And let me share a bit of what I shared with my team, okay? So, this exercise is called archetype shaving.

And it is done by putting our dream in total, there's a term, in total is a legal term. In simple English, it means in totality. In totality, that's in simple English, right?

In totality means we want to combine all the things that we want in our dreams in one picture. All right? And how do we, and it's called archetype shaving, means we want to convert this dream in total into archetype, into archetype.

So, how do we convert this? So, this is a dream image, okay? This is a dream image.

How do we convert this dream image into an archetype? It is covered in, by the way, Life 2.7, the second part of Life 2.7, all right? You can read the manual again.

We are talking about double flips, dual opposite, okay? So, we need to flip once, and then we need to flip the second times. How do we flip the first one?

The first flip is we need to think of parts that we don't want to become part of our dreams. And then we push away parts that we don't want. And remember, after you push away, you need to flip them, okay?

You don't just push them away. You don't just cut them away. After you push away, you flip them.

And what do you, you see, we flip twice. That means we are creating the archetype. Now, I mean, for those of you who are not in advanced level 2, this might sound very confusing, but let's use back Adam's book, right?

So, Geshe Michael always like to use the coffee cup. This is a coffee cup. Coffee cup is changing.

It is changing. Agree, everyone? Now, how do we, how do we come arrive at the coffee cup archetype?

First, we need to take everything else which is not a coffee cup, okay? What is that? It can be my mobile phone.

It can be my computer. It can be my table. All those are everything else which is not a coffee cup.

Follow? And then I flip. So, the opposite of everything else which is not a coffee cup, the opposite of everything else which is not a coffee cup, if you follow a normal logic, you will come back to the same coffee cup.

Agree? But this is where you need to read Adam's book carefully, or this is where you need to read advanced level 2 manual life to seven, the second part very carefully. When I say that anything else which is not a coffee cup, those are still changing, right?

My mobile phone, my computer, my table, but the opposite of everything else which is not a coffee cup, it is actually an image, an image, and that image is unchanging, and that image is, we can consider that as an archetype of the coffee cup, okay? So, this is basically how we change the dream image into an archetype. So, the meditation, the practice is just a practice to create the archetype of the dream image.

So, in the process, we call it elimination, we call it shaving. In the process of elimination, actually, we should not make it too complicated. We shouldn't make it too complicated.

I heard your examples, those are beautiful, but to me, those are too complicated. Let me give you an example, right? I will come to example, to your example later, but I'm going to give you a simple example.

I want a big house, for example, right? I want a big house. So, how do I shave?

I need to, oh no, no, let's talk about my business, okay? I want, okay, let's change. I want a profitable business.

I want a profitable business. I want to become a successful organizer, let's say, right? So, how do I shave my archetype?

I need to start thinking of the kind of organizers that I don't want to become. What kind of organizers that I don't want to become? I don't want to become an organizer with few students, right?

So, I push this away and then I flip. I push away organizer with few students. When I flip, what happened?

I will see organizer with many students. I don't want to have students who don't like to study. I push that away and then when I flip, what happened?

That means I will see students who like to study. I don't want students who are stingy and don't want to pay money. I push them away and what I see is students who like to pay money.

I don't want, so, you see, when you do this, you get very excited because as a human, normally we know what we don't want more than what we want. So, when you use this, you get very excited. I don't want this.

Okay, push away, flip. I don't want that. Push away, flip.

The more you do this meditation, the more you get excited. This is what happened to me, all right? Okay, let's come back to your example of becoming a better self.

Interestingly, in Hanoi, we had a special meditation session with Geshe Michael and he actually used this example. He used this example. Geshe Michael used this example when he led the meditation and he was saying, okay, I want to become a better person, a better person, however you define it, right?

So, how do you shape this archetype? So, first, then you start to think the person you don't want to become. I don't want to become somebody who is stingy.

I push it aside, I flip. Flip means I become generous. I don't want somebody who is lazy.

I push it aside and then I flip, means I'm diligent. I don't want to become somebody who is impatient. I push it aside, I flip, it's patience.

I don't want to be somebody who is angry. I push it aside, I become somebody who is cool, you know? So, but, okay, as a bonus for all of you who are here, Geshe Michael has something special.

He told us, yes, you can flip and flip, you can push and flip, push and flip, push and flip, but you can actually have your ideal figure in front of you, the ideal you. So, while you are pushing away and flip, pushing away and flip, slowly you will have an ideal figure in front of you that you want to become, that you want to become. And slowly that meditation becomes something that we all know.

I just want to ask whether Ingui, do you remember? Were you there in our last application lab? You were not there.

Were you not there? We discussed about this, okay? Let me give you the answer.

It will become like a golden room meditation. Okay, you got it, Anna? So, you push away and you flip, you push away and you flip, you push away and you flip, you push away all the characteristics that you don't want and you flip.

At the end of the day, you will see your ideal you, okay? And that ideal you is somebody that you want to become and it will, it is, it feels like a golden room meditation. Try it, okay?

Try it tonight. All right, I hope that helps you, all right? Okay, and Olga Afsan again, question from our team of translators.

Geshe Michael says, Lord Buddha, but also a lot of death. Why is he using the same word for such opposite characters? Same word as in what?

Lord, or what? Of, Olga, can you, can you explain?

[Speaker 3]
Yes, exactly. We are talking about the word Lord.

[Speaker 1]
Ah, why Lord Buddha and Lord of the death? Is that, why Lord? Ah, okay.

All right. I think we need to understand that when we, you know, a lot of times we, we like to use this opposite, opposites in our life and also in our spiritual practice. And we talk about Lord Buddha, we talk, we talk about Buddha, we talk about death, we talk about heaven, we talk about hell, we talk about good deeds, we talk about bad deeds, right?

And it's very similar to our, our reality. We talk about light, we talk about dark, we talk about, so, so we always like these opposites and, and we treat them as if they are different, right? But in reality, if we understand that things are coming from us, from our seeds, actually there is no such thing as opposites, right?

If we, if we understand where things come from, life and death, they are basically, we can define death as lacking of life, right? We can say the darkness is lacking of life. So in this case, death, the reason why we call it Lord of Death is because I think we need to really understand that this death, yes, in the Wheel of Life, you can see the Lord of Death in the picture, right?

In the picture. But it is just a metaphor. It is just a metaphor.

It is a metaphor of our own death. Geshe Michael used the story of Lord of Death slowly moving closer and closer to our heart. And one day, the Lord of Death will just pull our heart out and we will die, you know?

So all these are just metaphor. And sometimes we use the word Lord of Death just to let us realize that, hey, yes, we need to respect this because death is something unavoidable. And it is something that we really need to pay attention to, you know?

So personally, I will take that as the emphasis, okay? Hey, Lord of Death is not something that you should be running away from. But instead, Lord of Death is reminding us that, hey, there is death.

And we shouldn't run away. Instead, we should reflect on death in the sense that life is impermanent, right? Oh, yeah, this is the only place we can use the term mitakpa as impermanence.

Other than this, we should always use changing, right? So we can say that life is impermanent, yeah? So I guess, yeah, this is my answer, all right?

All right, Luca. No, Luca is translation. And this, wow, how this your name has L and S.

This is Hardy. Oh, no, somebody else, I thought it's Hardy. Is there a translation here?

No, no translation. Is there?

[Speaker 3]
We have a translation.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, we have. Okay.

[Speaker 3]
Maybe later. Maybe later. You can read it on the chat, yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. I don't see it. No, I mean, I just want to help the translator read.

Oh, I don't see it. Okay, never mind. I'll skip and continue with the next one, right?

Okay, where am I? So many things.

[Speaker 2]
Next one is Flavia, if I'm not mistaken.

[Speaker 1]
Flavia. Okay, Flavia. Flavia, where's Flavia?

Okay, if it is not possible to change karma in the moment, how does purification work? Is it a change of conditions that is in our possibilities? What happens in the mind when we do the practice of the four powers?

Well, I like to use the standard answer that I like to give in DCI context, right? Yes, we cannot change karma in the moment, and we can use the four powers to do purifications. Agree?

And how do we explain four powers in DCI context is that two ways, right? Two ways. No, sorry, I shouldn't say two ways.

Basically, the bad seeds that we have planted, we try to make them ripen earlier, so that they are not in full capacity, so that the impact is lesser. Okay, so this is what we normally answer. So, it means that we are not destroying the seeds in the sense that the seeds are gone and not going to give effect anymore, but the seeds will still open, but in a much smaller power and not affecting us badly.

Okay, so this is our standard answer. And because we push all the bad seeds out earlier and quickly, yes, you still feel something bad happening, but they are happening when you still can handle all the bad effects. And a lot of time, if you really do your four powers, you will feel some bad results in a smaller way.

So, it doesn't mean that you can use four powers and all your bad seeds are gone and you don't have to get the impact, because the laws of karma will still work no matter what. All right, and I think be careful with this one. You know, I heard people telling me Aiya, you all seeds people, you just play with the seeds.

You do bad things and then you use four powers to destroy them and you don't get the impact. You see, people, be careful. Some people will come to this conclusion and I don't think that is right.

That is wrong understanding, right? So, yeah, this is how I would answer you. What happens in the mind when we do the practice of four powers?

Yeah, we basically push the seeds out prematurely when they are still not in full power, so that the impact to us will not be too serious. All right, I hope that answers your question, Flavia.

[Speaker 2]
But that would mean if I can make my bad seeds open fast, or like you said, prematurely, that would mean that I am making karma happen in the moment, or almost in the moment. So, that would mean that we have more power than what we study usually. So, I don't want to go there because that is maybe too much, but what I want to think, like explore more, is what is the power of regret, intelligent regret?

What is the change that makes in the mind that produces fast, better results and that stops the bad seeds to keep growing in the mind?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, four powers I would say is like a simplified version of the real explanation behind, okay? Because it's easy, four steps, you just do it. But if you really want to explore the reasons behind, I would like to use the will of life explanation.

And if you remember in Will of Life, Geshe Michael always emphasized on this, that the reason, the more we misunderstand how karma works. Okay, first of all, why we are kept in the Will of Life is because we misunderstand how all this works. And then, the more we misunderstand how karma works, the more we are trapped in the will, and the faster the bad seeds will grow, right?

And I always like to joke, we want our good seeds to open quickly. How do we do them? We do coffee meditation.

But how do you make your bad seeds become bigger? We keep on misunderstanding how karma works, right? So, if we reverse this logic, if we don't want the bad karma to become bigger, if we reverse the logic, that means we need to stop the misunderstanding.

So, four powers is a very effective way to stop our misunderstanding. Because the first, power of foundation is what? Remember the pen, power of foundation.

And then after we remember the pen, step power two is what? Intelligent regret. Oh, I shouldn't have done that.

This is something wrong. And then, if I don't do something quickly, the seeds will continue, the bad seeds will continue to double, to multiply, to grow bigger. And then one day, the result will be so bad that I will succumb to it.

So, number three is I give my commitment, I promise for a certain period of time not to do it. And then finally, we do the antidote. The antidote.

We do the power number four, which is to balance the seeds. So, we do the balance the seeds. So, this balancing of the seeds means we do positive seeds, opposite of the bad seeds.

And this balancing, I believe this balancing seed is the one that is pushing away all the bad seeds prematurely. In DCI, we use the metaphor of the runway, the airport runway. I don't know whether you heard of this.

So, the seeds are lined up just like the runway. A lot of bad seeds are lining up, but they haven't taken off because they are still small. They need to grow big enough so that they can take off.

But when we plant something positive behind, and all these positive seeds are so big, they are pushing. You can imagine the big airplane behind pushing all the small airplanes in front. And then because they are still small, they can't really fly properly.

Halfway, they will just, what do you call that, just fall down. So, that is an analogy of seeds prematurely being pushed to fly. And then because they are small and premature, they can't fly high.

They don't create a big negative impact on us. So, that is how I would explain. Come on, Flavia.

[Speaker 2]
Thank you so much. So, if I see this infinite potential, even a bad seed is infinite potential. And I use wisdom, let's say.

I study. I think about the pen. So, I'm changing the seed.

It was a bad seed. It was planted with ignorance, let's say, or with a degree of ignorance. But then I think about it, and I keep using wisdom on that experience.

So, I'm kind of changing that infinite potential into something less bad.

[Speaker 1]
We are not changing. We cannot change the seed. The negative seeds planted are still there.

We are planting new positive seeds to push all that out prematurely. So, yeah, we are not changing. They are still there.

[Speaker 2]
We are creating a competition.

[Speaker 1]
Something like that. We are creating positive. Like, yeah, you can.

Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
All right. All right. So, it looks like we don't have much time.

Yeah, looks like we don't have much time. Okay, let me do this one. It has English translation.

Our state of seeing emptiness directly is the same as that of Buddha. Why do we come back after seeing emptiness directly? What is the cause that we cannot stay in emptiness?

Ah, good question. The answer is pretty straightforward. Geshe Michael explained this before.

How do we get into this direct perception of emptiness? If you remember, or if you attended some of Geshe Michael's classes, you will, you might have heard that we have, through many, many, many lifetimes, maybe millions of lifetimes, or eons of lifetimes, we must have collected a lot of good seeds so that at that precise moment, at that precise moment, we experience the direct perception of emptiness. And this is a very expensive experience.

And all those good seeds that we collected through eons of lifetimes will be used up, like in about 20 minutes, used up. That's the reason we fall back down to normal life. So, those are very, very expensive.

Therefore, we cannot stay there forever. But the fact that we have touched the diamond world, the fact that we have seen the emptiness directly, that becomes a very strong impact on us. And Geshe Michael likes to use the term like a cancer cell.

Yes, when you touch, you create one emptiness cancer cell in your body. And the good news is that this emptiness cancer cell will multiply very quickly, very quickly. And therefore, we are saying that maximum seven lifetimes, the area, the person who has seen emptiness directly will become enlightened.

So, that is the reason we cannot stay there forever because it's a very expensive experience. All right, we are at the hour. My apology that I can't answer everything.

I hope, I beg you to record them down. I think all these are very good questions. And our next Q&A is in a few days time, right?

Ah, on the Tuesday, January 10, it is by Venerable Utpala. Yeah, diamond seed. Yes, Olivia.

Yeah, so yeah, diamond seed. So, those are cool, right? So, please record down your question.

Oh, yeah, diamond cell, diamond seed. Yeah, thank you. Thank you.

So, yeah, record down your questions and then seek some wisdom from Venerable Utpala. All right. I hope my answers are sufficient, helpful.

And I hope to see you all again during the Mixed Nuts. All right. Have a good day and enjoy your evening.

I mean, for people in Asia, have a good evening and sleep early. All right. For people in US, in other parts of the world, enjoy your day and see you tonight.

Bye-bye. Thank you, translators. Thank you, Marina as the host.

And thank you for all the wonderful questions. Bye-bye.