Гибсон Чан — Книга 2: Восхваление зависимости, занятие 6

[Speaker 1]
Hey, hey, Gibson. Okay, so let me share my... Let me see, okay.

It might just be me and you, so hang on a sec. I mean, I'll do my best. Okay, it's easy.

Oh, that's good. But it'll be more fun if we wait for some other people. Is anybody else here?

Okay, so what's the Middle Way functionalist River School's opinions to the following statement, consider all things, they are empty because they are come from seed. What would the answer by the Middle Way? What would the answer by the Middle Way be?

Yeah, yeah. I would say they would probably say... Yeah, they would agree.

Yeah, I agree. So, consider all things, they are empty because they come from seed. What's the answer by the functionalist?

Okay, and then the functionalist would probably say... Or no, I guess they would say... So, what would they say in English?

Oh, that's a tough one. It does not. It's not necessarily the case.

Yeah, just because they come from seeds does not mean that they are empty. Does not mean they are empty. Yeah, correct.

Let me see. All right, so what you said was totally right, Gibson, but in the written English... Okay.

Not quite right, because you wouldn't say, if something comes from a seed, it cannot be empty. It's different than saying, just because it comes from a seed, it's not necessarily empty. Well, maybe I...

That's what Utpala said also, right? Gawa seems like it's necessarily the contrary of that. Right, and necessarily the contrary, right?

And if you want to answer that, then just change the Tibetan. That's a good point. Yeah, but what Geshe-la says...

So, all things are valid. That seems right to me. It's not necessarily...

You would say it's not necessarily the case. Sorry, just because they come from a seed, yeah, they don't... I forget.

They're not necessarily empty. It's actually clunky English. We have to start over, but...

Geshe-la did go further. He did say that the reason and statement are mutually exclusive, which proves it's not empty. Can you guys hear me?

Oh, so the khyapa khyapa khyawa? Can you guys hear me? Yes, we can.

Now we can hear. Yeah. Am I on?

So, you are.

[Speaker 2]
Yes, sir.

[Speaker 1]
Can you hear us? Yeah, the khyapa ma chung should be past tense. No apostrophe.

There you go. Okay. Oh, cool.

So, again, we were discussing whether, from the functionalist point of view, is it a khyapa ma chung or is it a khyapa khyawa? I wasn't paying attention yet. The text says khyapa khyawa.

In fact, that's even in the root text.

[Speaker 2]
Which should be a type of khyapa ma chung. I mean, if something is khyapa khyawa, it's necessarily khyapa ma chung.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, I would say that you... I was working that out, yeah. I think you're correct.

I think you're correct, Gibson. I think it's correct. I think the functionalist would say khyapa ma chung.

Just because they come from seeds doesn't mean they're empty. Doesn't mean they're empty. That's probably a better way to put it.

Okay, so what is the answer by the River School? Just let it flow, man. They don't come from seeds?

Yeah, they don't come from seeds. Akhmadru, yeah. Don't drink the water.

Just a little sip would be good for you. Good, Akhmadru. Nice.

Yeah, nice. Yeah, that's great. That's great.

Yeah, it really is. That's great. And that's...

I'm glad you put that on your homework, because that was a big part of that text. Yeah, so if something is empty of any nature of its own, then can it truly work? That word truly makes me very uncomfortable.

Yeah, that truly makes us all uncomfortable, Gibson. Truly. Spelling wrong?

Truly? No, no. The spelling, no amount of spelling can fix the problem.

I guess the truly is a four-letter word in the four-school middle way. So no, we would have to say it, because you're saying truly. I mean, that seems to mean from its own side.

Yeah, we would say, yes, if something is empty of any nature of its own, it can truly work correctly. And if someone thinks just because something is dependent, it can't be empty, then you will fall into the abysses of two strings. No.

[Speaker 2]
You just got to get rid of the word truly, and we'll all feel better if you just erase that word. Yeah. In the answer and the question.

Yeah, and then in the answer also, right? Because you're saying, what? Dumbartupo.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Actually, yeah. Correctly.

Actually. Yeah. Sorry to make you get uncomfortable.

We all deserve it. When I think about my paycheck, I also get uncomfortable. Yeah, two strings is think if cup is not empty, then it's less forever.

Or think if cup is coming from us, it will just break out of existence. And that is why we praise the Buddha who see the dependent with emptiness. Okay.

So, what's the Tibetan for chaché? Do you think that does something? The fact that things work.

Yeah, the fact that things do something. Yeah, yeah, good. Okay, the last one is at the end of our last class.

Lord Buddha described that because of things depend on see they are empty in four different ways. And please list this here and I will show the Tibetan. Lord Buddha used the four different ways to describe because things depend on see they are empty.

Everything is relying on other things. Therefore, they're dependent. Yeah.

And the second one. Everything is established is existing independence and is therefore empty of any nature of its own. Correct.

And the third. If they did have their own nature. Yeah, we could be able to go to Nirvana.

Yeah. Yeah, cool. So the last one is very interesting.

Yeah. Yeah, that's very interesting. That's a difficult Tibetan also.

Lhagme Nyepa. You guys haven't had Lhagme Nyepa. Yeah, Lhagme Nyepa.

I was going to guess it but... You will say it because what I said before are... You won't find anybody who can prove otherwise or something?

Yeah, it doesn't have any Mama Hatha. It's beautiful. Oh, cool.

It's indisputable. Yeah, Lhagme Nye means it's a hopeless task or something.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, hopeless attack.

[Speaker 1]
Hopeless task.

[Speaker 2]
Task.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, task. Yeah. Okay.

Okay. Cool. Thank you and here is my translation.

Hey, that's Chinese. What did you say? Oh, two, three.

About three ideas. Okay. So here's my translation.

Should I read first? Yeah, please read. Okay.

Okay. Nice, nice. Let's look at the translation.

A thing without relying on something else would be a flower blooming in the mid air. The live translators have asked that when we're doing things that have been translated in advance, that we also read the English. Oh, okay.

So I will read it slow. Okay. Yeah.

A thing without relying on something else would be like a flower blooming in the mid air without a foundation. And so there is not a single tiny cause and uncaused things exist which relies or depends on nothing else. If everything exists in and of itself, then it would be a contradiction to say it depends on the combination of uncaused things, parts, and the combination of causing, cause and condition.

I think so. Well, we better let the live translators take a breath. Okay.

Let's look at this. A thing without relying on something else. I love that you said flower blooming in mid air.

And I love that you didn't say sky flower. Because sky flower doesn't mean anything to... You know, it doesn't give the meaning.

Flower blooming in mid air is perfect. Mato shin. Without a foundation, shi mar drupa, don't forget in the logic books, like in Adam's text, in the Dora text, shi drupa just means exist.

It's just a synonym for existence. It doesn't refer to foundation. Shi druk and shi mar druk, it just means exist.

Okay. yin la den na ma tenpa ma drupa drupa du je. Yeah, now the order in which he discusses...

And by the way, it's rare to find a good explanation of why unchanging things are still dependent origination because they don't originate. Okay? And the only place I've seen it done well is in the first ACI course where Pabongka Rinpoche refers to things depending on their parts as dependent origination.

Normally we think of dependent origination as things depending on their causes and conditions. But that means unchanging things would not be dependent origination. But Buddha said all things have dependent origination.

Therefore, there must be a deeper kind of dependent origination where things depend on their parts and not just depend on their causes and conditions. Here in this paragraph, our author and Je Tsongkapa, they repeat this deeper kind of dependent origination where things are dependent if they depend on their parts. And that means empty space can also have dependence because empty space depends on north, south, east, west, for example.

It has parts. The only suggestion I have with the translation is it's a lot easier to understand dependent origination when you talk about depending on causes and conditions. That's why our author has mentioned the dependent origination of caused things first, du che.

He mentioned that first. That's the dependence on causes and conditions. Then he went deeper into the dependent origination of uncaused things which depend on their parts.

I would keep that order, Gibson, in your translation. He talked about caused things first and then he talked about uncaused things second. But you switched it in your translation.

You're talking about the uncaused things in the last sentence of your translation. You're talking about the uncaused things first and then you're talking about the caused things second. And he doesn't do that.

The order of his argument goes from caused things to uncaused things because it's more difficult. Much more difficult. So I would keep that order.

You just have to have the last sentence, you have to switch the order. That's all. Yeah, okay.

Let's go to the next piece. Okay, next piece. Oh, so sorry.

As such, for the reason I gave above, there exists nothing at all but things which exist through occurring of the dependent. That is, teacher, you say that there exists nothing at all but things that don't have any nature of their own. Good, nice, nice.

I would try to catch the word, I would say empty of any nature of their own. You see what I mean? I would try to catch the word dongpa.

That are not empty of any nature of their own. Nice. Okay.

Nice, yeah. And because that gives a nice explanation of the word emptiness. And by the way, just one more general comment which I mentioned last time.

The structure of this commentary is that first he will refer to the next verse and he will mention a few words from the next verse. Then we will give the next verse. And then the commentary to the verse normally starts out, in this commentary, starts out with dun ni.

Which means, I will tell you what the verse means. Now I will give you the meaning of the verse. So, try to keep that structure, when you structure the root text inside of the commentary, first there is a number and then there is a little tiny reference to a couple of words of the verse.

Then he gives the verse. And then he says dun ni when he starts his commentary. Which means, dun ni means, now here I will explain the verse to you.

Cool? Cool. All right, good.

Nice, nice homework. Let's get here. I'm very happy the way you said nam khen metto.

Especially. No, I'm really happy. Then it has meaning.

Seiji, we have to go to my... Oh, we are on my text. Okay.

Do you want to read, Gibson? Sumbani. By the way, thanks for waking up so early.

You don't look too tired. You can take a nap after. All right.

Sumbani rangshin dopa shesho kyi che kyi dun la. Yeah, so there's the structure of his commentary. He'll say, he'll refer to the outline.

He'll say the third point in the outline. And this ni is an equational sentence. It means the third point is.

The ni here is is. Okay? The third point is given in the one...

By the way, sometimes he'll join two verses together. You're a commentator. So I went through and I joined the two verses together.

I don't join them into one number, but I will put them one after the other. Usually the commentary is to one verse. Sometimes the commentary is to two verses.

He'll name the first few words of the new verse. Now, grandpa always goes and gets you number three. And I do that for free with no extra charge.

So part three, which the commentator never mentions, which is frustrating. Okay. Part three is rangshin kyi drum na nyang de sok mi rungwa tenpa.

What's that mean, Gibson? Rangshin kyi drum na... If things have any nature of its own, then the nirvana is impossible.

Good, nice. Perfect. Perfect.

Yeah. So that's his next topic. And that's the next verse.

We're not going to read the verse just to save time. And then he says, here's the meaning of the verse. Gibson, can you read this one and then we'll pick on other people.

Okay. tsultrim ni nguwur druppay rangshin shen du dokpa mepe che chu nang la nguwur druppay rangshin gta yuk na nyang nyen le tepa tokpa mi rung shing dang dzin gyi druppak kun kyang dokpa mepa sunso shepa wang Yeah, and the shepa at the end means what this verse is saying. So the shepa at the end means what this verse is saying.

The sungpa just before that is referring to Lord Buddha. Okay. So what this verse is saying is that Lord Buddha said, okay, and he said, if a thing existed, nguwur druppay rangshin, if it existed in and of itself, through some nature of its own, it would be dokpa mepa.

Dokpa mepa. It's like you're on the left. Dokpa means to stop something.

Dokpa means to stop something.

[Speaker 2]
Unstoppable.

[Speaker 1]
Like in Sugeng's Wheel of Life, we have lung do. We have the stopping the twelve links, right? So dok means to stop.

It's the same as reverse? Yep, yep. But it means to stop, but it means to reverse, yeah.

And by the way, it could have an alternate spelling, which is ZL. ZL. Okay, it can be spelled ZL.

Or it can be spelled LD. Both ZL and LD are heavy prenatal.

[Speaker 2]
Prenatal.

[Speaker 1]
If a thing existed from its own side, it would be dokpa mepa. It would be no stop? Yeah, you could never stop it, okay?

If a thing existed through some nature of its own, no force in the universe could ever stop it. Stop it. Therefore, if things had any rangshin, Nature.

Which of their own, okay? That existed of their own. Because a thing with its own nature is unstoppable, then if things had any nature of their own, then it would be impossible to nyang ngen lay depa.

To achieve nirvana. Because what's the definition of nirvana? That's all the mental friction.

How do you say it? Stopping your negative emotions permanently, okay? If things exist from their own side, you could never stop them at all.

Therefore, what would be impossible? Stopping those negative emotions. Therefore, nirvana would be impossible because the definition of nirvana is to stop your negative emotions.

If things exist from their own side, they cannot be stopped. If things cannot be stopped, then nirvana is impossible because the definition of nirvana is the permanent stopping of your negative emotions. Okay, cool.

nyang ngen lay depa toppa mi rung, nobody could ever achieve nirvana, and you could never dopa, you could never stop, your tendency to see things where your time's in. Hold a extreme view. Yeah, and the root text is druppa.

The root text says druppa. Druppa means imaginary stuff that your mind makes up. Druppa means stuff that your mind makes up.

Our commentator says if you want to know what Tsongkhapa is talking about, he's talking about time's in. He's talking about holding to extreme views. That things could exist from their own side or that things never existed at all.

He explains the word druppa. Yay, that's what Lord Buddha talked about. Bottom line, if things were self-existent, you couldn't have nirvana, because if things are self-existent, you could never stop them.

Cool. Who's going to read, Gibson? Pick on somebody.

It's fine. Anatole. Yeah, he looks so relaxed.

Let's bother him. Okay. Yeah, good.

Okay. So Anatole, this is point number four. And here's point number four.

Can you read that? Okay. ,LTA SOGS MI RUNG PAR BSTAN PA, Just read the big letters.

,GSUNGS DE RNAM LA DGOS BA GZHAN GYIS, ,BLAG MI GNAS PAR BSTAN PA'O, Nice. By the way, Grandpa finished checking Venerable Utpala and Anatole's corrections to Ben Kramer's endless book. This morning I finished it like at 7am and it took me a couple months.

I wanted to thank Anatole for making a lot of good corrections and Venerable Utpala for perfecting the book. So Dr. Ben, it went out of my hands today and we expect to announce it in the next class. We're going to announce the eight book in the next class, which is this evening, my time.

Thank you. That's exciting. Then we're going to clean up Mr. ...

Sorry, then we clean up Sugeng's book and then we clean up Nick's book. So, ,GSUNGS DE RNAM LA DGOS BA GZHAN GYIS, ,BLAG MI GNAS PAR BSTAN PA'O, means look, there's nobody in the world that could argue against these statements by Lord Buddha. Okay, that's all.

And who's going to read? Gibson, who are you going to pick on? Anatole, yeah.

,BSTAN PA'O, ,GONG GI RGYUD SEMS, ,DE PHYIR, ,BSTAN PA'O, ,GYUR GYIS CHOS DAM BYAS LA, ,DNGOS BO, ,GRUB PA'I RANG BZHIN RNAM PAR, ,DREL DO, ,GZHAD PA'O, ,BAK SA WA MED PA'I SEM GYIS PA'I, ,DRA YI YANG DANG YANG DUG KE PA'I, ,SOK SU LAK PAR SUNG PA NDI LA, ,PE GO SU YI NGOD PAR NUD TE LEN KA, ,RJA MI NUS SO ZHES PA'O, Nice, good reading. Okay. DER NI, what's DER NI, Gibson?

What does it mean here? Yeah, let me explain to you the verse. Okay, here's what the verse means.

DER NI means, here's what the verse means. Because of the RGYUD SEMS GONG, Because the reason I gave a bow. Good, because of the reason I gave before.

You said, you Lord Buddha, you said CHOS THAMS CAD is RANG BZHIN DREL. It's nothing with the nature? Apart from the nature.

Of its own, which means, which exists in and of itself. Okay, you said that. Now, he's got a beautiful explanation of how Lord Buddha said it.

You said those words with the SREN GYI DRAL. Those words with the roar of the lion? Yeah, we got all these SREN GYI BUD in the room today.

SREN GYI BUD. SREN GYI BUD. Okay.

You pronounced all this stuff about emptiness with the roar of a lion. Without any BAG RTZA BA at all. In Barrett?

Yeah, BAG RTZA BA. What's the classical example you guys? It's the bride.

A newborn bride in ancient Asia. Okay, not like Chloe. They are supposed to never express their opinion and just look at the ground and agree to everything the husband says.

That's called BAG RTZA BA. I don't know what you want to call that. Bashful?

Bashful is the best word, yeah. So what he says is, when you talked about emptiness, you declared with the lion's roar. It wasn't like you were shy and you didn't want to talk about it and you're afraid to say something.

Okay? Without any shyness at all, you roared it out. Things don't have any nature of their own.

PA'I is an interesting word. It means PHA ROL. To the other side?

Yeah, the other debater. PHA ROL KYI DGUL BA. The other guy in a debate.

So this is an unusual use of PHA ROL that you guys have to learn. PA'I DGUL means PHA ROL KYI DGUL BA. DGUL BA, which means the other guy in a debate.

And nobody could... DGUL BA means make a case against your position. Then our commentator, he says, if you don't know the word make a case, I'll give you another word.

It's called LENG KA. Say LENG KA you guys. High tone.

[Speaker 2]
LENG KA.

[Speaker 1]
LENG KA means to dispute something. LENG KA means to dispute something, to argue against something. LENG KA is an ancient word that even sometimes, even sometimes in modern Tibetan, they use it for a court case.

Or someone who brings a court case. So LENG KA. MI NUS means nobody could fight against your lion's roar where you said nothing has any nature of its own.

Therefore, it's empty. Nobody could, nobody could argue against that. All right, who's next Geshe-la?

Geshe-la, about the last word, the YANG DANG YANG should speak together. This YANG DANG YANG means you gave that lion's roar over and over and over again for the 50 years that you were teaching in this world. And you roared over and over.

YANG DANG YANG means over and over and over and over again. Like that YANG DANG YANG. And what is the KHYAD PA'I TSOS SU?

Oh, yeah, and by the way, I meant to talk about it. There's a very, very common expression for a great teacher that they are not afraid to stand in a very crowded place surrounded by very great scholars and say something in the lion's roar. It's very commonly used to describe a great teacher in the debate ground.

They're standing in the middle of a thousand people. People are watching them debate and they are shamelessly and unafraid to give these ideas with the lion's roar. Even in the assembly of the great scholars, KHYAD PA.

It means that he didn't sit in his office at home and make these statements. He went out to the debate grounds and Tsongkhapa, for example, was famous for debating in hundreds of monasteries. He would say, bring me the best.

Then he would fight with them in public. So KHYAD PA'I TSOS means you're not afraid to go stand and debate in the middle of a bunch of great scholars with the lion's roar and not with this wimpy quietness. You weren't afraid to say, if things are dependent, they are empty.

You weren't afraid to say that. All right. Who's next, Gibson?

Rob Haggerty. Let's see if the coffee worked or not.

[Speaker 2]
SEMS PA TSUL DE'I THON PA MANG BA LAM MA MED PAR SGRUB PA NI RANG BZHIN SNGAR YANG ZHES SOGS GZIG BYAS NI GYIS MTHON BA Okay, good.

[Speaker 1]
SEMS PA TSUL DE'I THON PA MANG BA LAM MED PAR This fact, or this fact that you're not afraid to stand in front in a big group of people and do your lion's roar thing, that proves, SGRUB PA, that you are MTHON BA LAM MED PAR. You are a teacher without any competitor. Yeah, you are the matchless teacher, MTHON PA MANG BA.

You are the teacher. And we're going to use ZIG BYAS NI to demonstrate that fact. We're going to use two verses?

Yeah, and that's... So as a translator, Gibson, you got to watch. When he says ZIG BYAS NI, you have to insert two verses.

The first verse starts with the word, no nature at all. Okay, here we go. Yeah, and all this is going to prove that our teacher, Lord Buddha, is matchless.

Anuttara. All right, there's the two verses I put. I injected the two verses.

And that's Tsongkapa's real experience. Geshe-la, what's RGA YANG supposed to read together or RGA YANG separate? Separate.

RANG BZHIN RGA YANG is the first four syllables of the first verse. You see, RANG BZHIN RGA YANG.

[Speaker 2]
So what's RGA YANG mean?

[Speaker 1]
At all. Any nature at all. Yeah, RGA YANG means any nature at all.

So he's just... This is not supposed to make sense yet. He just says the verse that starts with any nature at all.

Okay. All right, we're not going to read the verses because we're going to get them in the commentary and we'll save time. Who's going to read, Master Gibson?

Rob Havlody. Whoa.

[Speaker 2]
Whoa.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
Good.

[Speaker 1]
Good. Good. Good.

Good.

[Speaker 2]
Good. What was that? Mepi.

Mepi. Good. Much...

Muchido?

[Speaker 1]
Good. Muchigo. Muchigo.

Okay, DER NI means what... What does the verse mean? Yeah, here's what the verse means.

There is no RANG BZHIN at all. There is no nature at all. Yeah, and he uses the word on top.

DANG. He uses the word on top, but we don't say that in English. We say in anything at all or for anything at all.

In Tibetan you say on top. The slightest bit of existing through its own nature, nothing has that on top of it. It means it doesn't apply to anything.

There is no thing in the world which exists through its own nature. No such thing. Number one.

So he's going to have two ideas here and then he's going to talk about the relationship between these two ideas. He's going to give two ideas and then he's going to talk about the relationship between the two ideas. What's the first idea?

SPYOD RANG BZHIN MED SPYOD RANG BZHIN MED Things don't have any nature from its own. Yeah, and it's a negative statement. He's got two statements here.

The first one is negative. Nothing has any nature of its own. What's the second one?

But still, je bus come from gyus. The results still come from the cause. Yeah, if only nominally.

THAN GYIS TZAM DU If only nominally. So we got two ideas here. Number one.

Nothing has any nature of its own. Number two. But still, we can say that things come from their causes.

Now we're going to talk about the relationship of these two ideas. You, Lord Buddha, were the only person who figured out that these two facts are MING DGEL BA Don't contradict with each other. Yeah.

It's no contradiction to say number one, nothing has any nature of its own. And number two, all things that are caused come from their causes. It's fine.

Cause and effect is fine. Emptiness is fine. You were like the only person who understood that these two are not DGEL BA.

They don't contradict each other. What's the MA ZAD mean, you guys? Hundred dollars, MA ZAD.

Not only that. Yay! You got a hundred dollars, Gibson.

Dang, that was a fast hundred dollars. I don't know how you can think that fast at five o'clock in the morning. MA ZAD means not only not contradictory, they are DROG PO.

They are friends. They are good friends. They go along with each other.

They fit each other perfectly. It's a very powerful sentence. A, nothing exists from its own side.

B, things that come from causes still come from causes. That's fine. These two facts are not contradictory.

Not only that, they are good friends. They are best friends. That one piece of this fourth line, MING RGYAL BAR MA ZAD MING RGYAL BAR MA ZAD GCIG DROG SO GCIG BDUR means not only are they not contradictory, they fit in with each other perfectly.

They fit like that. Those two ideas. Things are empty and cause and effect, they fit like that.

You're the only person who talked about it. Who's you? No Buddha.

Lord Buddha, yeah. Therefore, I'm writing this praise of you. You are so cool.

You are so cool. GZHIL GYI MA BA LA NA MED PA You are the MA BA LA NA MED PA. You are the master's teacher.

Yeah, yeah. Literally MA BA means professor. Professor.

RGYUD, and that's the RGYUD why you are MA BA LA NA MED PA. RGYUD, let's make you. Yeah, that's the reason why we call you the best teacher of all.

Why? You saw that these two ideas are not contradictory. Not only that, they are best friends.

You're the only person. MOD CI DGOS Who needs to mention it? Needless to say.

Needless to say. By the way, it's not true, right? MOD CI DGOS Tsongkapa says needless to say, therefore you are the greatest teacher.

But actually you do have to say it because nobody figured it out. MOD CI DGOS It's not true, MOD CI DGOS. Also MOD CI DGOS sounds like some kind of Japanese noodles.

MOD CI DGOS, right? I don't know. I was watching a Japanese movie last night and they had all these MOD CI DGOS and stuff.

Alright. Alright. Who's going to read next?

Ayesha. Oh, Ayesha. Thank you again for Sugeng's book.

That was a great... That's a... That's a real hoping out of you.

I don't think anybody else in the world was patient enough to find that. It was difficult but fun.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, wish me luck with the present. Thank you.

[Speaker 1]
Good. Nice. Nice.

Not bad. Gibson, what's the ZHES PA'O at the end mean? ZHES PA'O To wrap up the meaning of this verse?

Yeah. In English it would come at the beginning of the sentence and you would say, what this verse is saying is... Okay?

What this verse is saying is... So in English it would come at the beginning. What this verse is saying is what?

RGYAN BDIG PA BDIG PA, by the way, just for you older translators like Dr. Kramer, BDIG PA is the same as D. In colloquial we say BDIG PA. It means D.

Like you say, oh, meet BDIG PA. This guy. This dude.

BDIG PA. RGYAN BDIG PA TZAM GYIS BSTAN NAS CHUNG BA'I RGYUD RTZEN GYIS Because you explained dependent origination, and because you are not relying on these wrong views of those... LUS MA BA, what's a LUS MA BA?

[Speaker 2]
Functionalist.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, first three schools of Buddhism who have fallen into the two extremes of everything lasts forever without changing, or nothing existed in the first place. LTA PHYIR GYI LTA BA LA MI BSTAN NA ZHES You told us we should avoid those two extremes. And that's the...

He keeps coming back to you of why Lord Buddha is MA BA LA NA MED PA. Why Lord Buddha is Master's Teacher. Yeah, he keeps coming back.

Tsongkapa keeps coming back to this. He says, you're the greatest teacher of all. And then he says, and the reason why is you can explain dependent origination with emptiness where they help each other.

Not only not contradict each other, they help each other. That makes you the greatest teacher of all time. And that's the whole foundation of this whole poem.

This whole poem, every verse of this poem is just meant to say you're the coolest dude in the universe because you understand how dependent origination and emptiness are friends. Two sides of the same cell phone. Emptiness and dependent origination.

You're the only dude who understood that. Okay, you're so cool. All right.

Who's going to read next, Gibson? Aisha. We got how long?

Two minutes? We have about ten minutes left.

[Speaker 2]
Ten minutes. Okay, here we go. RGYI PA DU DE THAMS PA NI SDUG BSNGAL GO BO ZHES SO GCIG BRTEN MI SKYI MTHONG LA Yeah, good.

[Speaker 1]
The second point is going to be DU DE THAMS PA. DU DE THAMS PA means, this DU DE, when you put DE on do, it makes it an adverb. It makes it an adverb.

When you put DE between two words, it means a do-ish THAMS PA. What's that mean? Briefly, presentation.

Yeah, and it means let's wrap this thought up. Let's wrap up this thought. I'm going to wrap it up in a couple lines.

The implication is let's go on to more stuff. DU DE THAMS PA means let's wrap up. Then he says, I got how many verses to wrap up, Gibson?

Two verses. Yeah, I got two more verses for you. These are a wrap up.

Here's the two verses. By the way, generally, our commentator, when he wants to cover a point in two verses, he uses two paragraphs. Generally, these two, and I have split them that way.

All right, who's up, Gibson? Timothy. Timothy.

Wait, he looks like it's five o'clock in the morning. Hey, Gibson, his parents were here last week, the whole week, and he combed his hair for five days in a row. Can you believe it?

Wow, that's rare. Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
Gina, can you make this quick? Thank you.

[Speaker 1]
All right. I say, GCIG GYI GCIG GZHOD NA LAS PA'I BREN PA'I SGROG BYED PA Good, nice. Very nice.

Nice reading. Thank you. BREN NI means let's explain the meaning of the first verse.

GCIG RNAMS KYI DNGOS PO, what's that mean, Gibson? The walking thing in the outside and the inside. Good, yeah.

By the way, when DNGOS PO is used this way, and don't forget the Sanskrit is BHAB PA, it can mean just things. It doesn't necessarily have to mean working things. So you have to be very careful.

When you see DNGOS PO, you have to think carefully. You're going to have to make a choice every time you see it. You're going to have to decide, is he talking about everything in the universe?

Or is he talking about everything in the universe that does something? And what do you guess it is if we're talking about emptiness? Things.

Yeah, everything in the universe. DNGOS PO DE DAG All of them, all these things in the universe, are THA GNYAS KYI BDAG PA It's merely non-no. Yeah, labeled with names.

Labeled with names. I want to bow down to our author. Who is he?

Mochidharambhava?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
I want to bow down to him because he spelled the goddamn words correctly in this paragraph. It's very rare. It's extremely rare.

B-T-A-G-S is the past tense of MDOG. It's the past tense of MDOG, which means to label something. THA GNYAS KYI BDAG PA What's THA GNYAS KYI BDAG PA mean?

Label something with a word. But Gibson knows that word here means... Image.

Image. Yeah, mental picture coming out of a... Seat.

Yeah, coming out of a karmic seat. Very chi che dak gi. Very chi che dak gi.

Things are labeled with pictures, meaning the picture of a pen that comes out of a karmic seat labels in the sense that it brings together the pieces into one thing. Don't forget that when you see label. When you see label, it means the word pen or the picture pen which unifies the parts.

Which unifies the parts. That's what label means in Buddhism. All of the stuff in the universe is labeled the same way.

And BDAG DON, I'll give $100, someone give me the right translation of BDAG DON. The thing that being labeled. We are labeling.

Nah, it's too easy. Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
Parts which have been labeled upon.

[Speaker 1]
Give it up, you guys. The result of the labeling process. The thing that comes out of the labeling process.

BDAG DON is the product of the labeling process. It's the pen. BDAG DON is...

the pen is the BDAG DON. After the labeling is complete, you get a BDAG DON. There's MDOG RJE.

There's BDAG DON. And there's BDAG DON, which means the finished pen that comes out of the labeling process. BDAG DON.

That BDAG DON, the pen that comes out of the... The pen that comes out of the seed labeling process is SDONG PA. It's empty.

Of any nature of its own. SNGON BAR SGRUB PA It doesn't have any nature of its own. It is completely dependent, GZHAN DBANG, on the pictures popping out of the seeds in your mind.

And MA BDAG MA BYAS PAR It's an idiom for the unexamined, the regular old thing. It means, if you don't look too closely. If you don't look too closely.

We bought a new car for my sister-in-law. By the way, yesterday she told me she had to buy a new battery and two new tires. No, I'm just saying...

No, she's extremely happy. But what I'm saying is, MA BDAG MA BYAS PAR means, if you didn't look too closely. You see what I mean?

It's a very, very famous Madhyamika term. If you don't look too close, RGYUD DANG BRAL BU works fine. Cause and effect works fine.

I love the example of writing the Diamond Cutter Sutra on a piece of paper. I love the example of writing the Diamond Cutter Sutra on a piece of paper. The pen is moving across the paper and there's words coming out.

What created the pen? Your seeds. What created the sutra?

Your seeds. Also your seeds. Your seeds.

What created the writing under the pen? Your seeds. Yeah, your seeds.

The writing under the pen on the paper is not coming out of the pen. It's unbelievable. It's unbelievable.

It's not coming from the pen. It's coming from your seeds. You're moving a pen across paper, but the words coming out are coming out of your seeds and not from the pen.

If you don't look too close, you can say the pen is writing. If you don't think about it too much, we can say the pen is writing. So Geshe-la, what is the opposite of Madhyama Chedpa?

Is that Chedpa? Yeah, yeah. What is the opposite of Madhyama Chedpa?

Dak ching che. If you dig deeper. If you dig into it.

If you don't dig too close, you can say the pen is writing on the paper. If you dig close, it's your seeds writing on the paper. Madhyama Chedpa.

Here, THAN GYIS TZAM DU. Just nominally, in the normal language of the world. RGYUD DI LAS BRJES BU'I DI'I BYUNG This writing is coming from this cause.

As a result of this cause. Those NGES PA NYID PO. Those two realizations here.

Those two realizations. Number one, the pen is empty of any nature of its own. The thing you call the pen, the thing you label pen, doesn't have any nature of its own.

But still it can... if you don't look too close, you can say the pen is writing. If you don't think about it too much.

PHAN TZAM RGYAS MED PA They don't gag each other. They don't stop each other. Yeah, they don't interfere with each other at all.

They don't interfere with each other at all. Is the pen a creation of your seeds? Yes.

Is it writing on the paper? Yes. If you don't look too close.

Then again, here is Tsongkhapa is repeating this thing. Look, RGYAS MED PA. No problem.

It can be an empty pen. It can be a pen which is coming from your mental pictures. And it can be writing on the paper at the same time.

Those two facts don't contradict each other. Then what's he going to say next without looking? What's an anticipatory translation?

Not only that. Not only that. Yeah, they help each other out.

They help each other out. SDROG CHEN PA means they make friends. They are friends.

They are working together. They are working as a team. What?

One proves the other. NGES PAR BSTAN means one proves the other. One brings on a certainty of the other.

GCIG GZHAN means the first and the second. GCIG and GCIG GZHAN means the first one and the second one. One and the other.

The one helps the other. Each one helps the other. In Tibetan you say GCIG and GCIG GZHAN.

GCIG GZHAN means the other. GCIG means one. GCIG GZHAN means the other.

They help each other. They help... When you understand one of them, it helps you understand the other one.

They help each other. And that is F-ing Mozart. Amazing.

Oh my god. That is F-ing amazing. We got time for the next sentence?

We are over time. Okay, you get to translate the next sentence on your own, Gibson. I don't want to see this F-ing thing in there.

That is just an oral lineage. Geshe-la, I have a burning question. Sorry.

In the last class you used the word a lot. Words applying naturally. Here you are using labels or pictures.

Is it the same thing? Yeah. Here is my teaching suggestion.

When you are teaching it, all the books say things exist in name only. Name only. I think strategically, as a teacher, get people used to name only, name only, name only.

Say it like a hundred times. Then later hit them with this idea that the name is the mental picture. That is the genesis in the Bible.

I watched a good movie about Moses the other night with Veronica. It is called Exodus Then and Now or something like that. That is the opening words of the Old Testament.

In the beginning was the word. But in the beginning was the mental construct coming from your karma. Thank you.

Alright, grandpa is taking a huge break. Good. Fifteen minutes.

I don't know how much time I... You got muted. Thank you very much, Keshala.

Thank you, Gibson. Very happy to see everybody. Thanks for taking part in us recording this so that we can have it available for the hundreds of people who are coming to Mixed Nuts these days.

Love you all. See you soon. Thanks so much.