Классика Алмазного огранщика: Верхний Срединный путь — Великие книги мудрости, занятие 34

[Speaker 1]
I'm just going to go back. I'm not going to waste your time, but I just want to. So for two-year-olds, it's uncertain or something like that.

And for Aryas, presented to an Arya, wrong or not required or something like that, OK? And he's swimming around in many different meanings of this. And it may have to, what do you call that with wine?

Age. It may have to age for a while here. OK, so I'm just getting you back in the mood.

Something about teaching it to Aryas, no. Something about teaching it to non-Aryas, indefinite. And he's going to play around with different meanings of that.

And it's not necessarily the one I taught you. And now we're going back to where we are. We just finished this sentence.

So please read this sentence. And Stanley has to play.

[Speaker 2]
Step on.

[Speaker 1]
Paala tempeh. Ten, ten be. Tempeh.

Tembe. Tembe.

[Speaker 2]
Chir serna ma, chup, chup te. Thank you, Stanley. Pak par ma kyor par, pak par gyor, gyor war ja, wey chir.

[Speaker 1]
Tu te ni teng. Okay, uh, let me see something.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, we did do this one last time, I guess.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, does the words ngopo and nge-me, which means real and unreal, right? Is it a code word for sansara and nirvana? Okay.

Does it mean sansara and nirvana? Okay. And is that what the Buddha was saying?

Okay. And here somebody says, well, Buddha taught it to Aryas. Okay, and we say Dharmadruk.

He taught the idea of yo-pa-pa and me-pa-pa, those who believe things do exist, go to the better births, those who believe that nothing exists, go to the worst births. Okay, then did he teach that distinction to... this tenpa means did he teach it to Aryas?

And maybe with a shiva you would say ma-khyap, but with an Arya you say Dharmadruk. He did not, in any sense, teach it to Aryas. And it could mean...

well, we'll see that later. Okay. Why?

Why not? Because the whole purpose of teaching them was to make Aryas out of non-Aryas. Okay.

So don't say he taught it for the purpose, for the sake of Aryas. Because they don't need it. Okay.

He taught it to make non-Aryas into Aryas. Okay. De-nyi means those two meaning yo or me or ngu-po or ngu-me.

You know, this famous distinction between the two. Right? Ngu-me tarpa-ndro.

If you see neither is correct, then you go to nirvana. Okay. Neither do things exist, nor do they not exist, and that will take you to nirvana.

Okay? Okay. And I worked on this one, and I think I have it, but it's kind of tough.

Okay? Kind of. Okay.

So I'm going to say this is where we start. Okay. Please read and...

Anton, you want to take this plane? It's not very big.

[Speaker 2]
Tru-po.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. You know, this started to call to me in a very, very famous, which is an illumination of the Chudan argument, where Buddhas are said to respect Bodhisattvas because...

[Speaker 2]
They are their mothers or fathers.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, exactly. They're hot. Guapos.

Yeah. Suave, caliente, guapo. So anyway...

Yeah. I believe what he's saying here is it takes an Arya to make an Arya.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
It takes an Arya to become a Buddha? Yeah, because when they talk about Bodhisattvas and Buddhas, you know, the question is, do Buddhas come from Bodhisattvas, or do Bodhisattvas come from Buddhas? And the answer is...

Both. But different tsars. Different tsars.

Okay, I'll say it again. Do Bodhisattvas come from Buddhas, or do Buddhas come from Bodhisattvas? Yeah, it depends which tsar you're looking from.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Which generation are you looking from? The grandfather...

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, anyway.

[Speaker 1]
The grandfather is not... Okay. Before you can teach those two to somebody, in order to teach those two to somebody, what's the two?

What's real and what's not. Okay. Kongdu means before that.

Okay. You need an Arya. Papaguppe.

Therefore, they're kind of interdependent, which also calls to a statement by Pabongka Rinpoche, very famous, about dependent origination. And it's the spear. It's called the spear metaphor.

At the end of the Three Principal Paths. If you can see how... How does that play in emptiness?

[Speaker 2]
At some point, they no longer alternate, but come together. Two sides, you say?

[Speaker 1]
Well, it's kind of like, the existence of a thing depends on giving it a name. Sorry. You cannot call a thing a cause until its result has come out, at which time the cause is gone.

[Speaker 2]
That thing doesn't exist anymore that you want to call it.

[Speaker 1]
That's the principle of dependence. Yeah, so in a sense, the present is dependent upon the future. The future is obviously dependent on the present.

But in a sense, the present also depends on the future. Because you can't call things in the present things until you see what happens. Disastrous policy or great policy.

You have to see what happens first, and then you can... Okay, all right, so anyway. Penzintemba.

And I take it to be B-R-T-E-N, because it doesn't make much sense to say... It doesn't... This reading doesn't make...

This spelling doesn't make sense. Why, Nick, Penzintemba? What's B-R-T-E-N?

Relied upon... Stira, stira. Firm.

Yeah, they are mutually firm. I think it's a spelling error. They are mutually dependent.

You can't have an Arya without an Arya, but you can't make an Arya without it. You know, okay, got it? It's like the Bodhisattvas and the Buddhas.

[Speaker 2]
They have no nature of their own.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, and because of that fact, they exist in name only.

[Speaker 2]
Ramshin...

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, Ramshin Mepa. They have no nature.

[Speaker 2]
Okay. Because of that, and so they have no nature.

[Speaker 1]
But it could be talking about Yipa and Mepa. Okay. Yipa and Mepa have no nature.

Non-existence depends on existence, and existence depends on non-existence, and they're different. Yeah, yeah, okay. But then the...

First you need an Arya doesn't make much sense. You see what I mean? Okay, so good luck.

All right. Okay. His text is...

I mean, I was thinking up excuses why I couldn't understand it, and I came up with... Yeah, in the winter debates, we debate Gyaltsabje, we debate one page for a month, like eight, ten hours a day, you know. That's why I've never tried to translate his Pramana book, because, I mean, the first page would take, you know, he's incredible.

So we may come back to it and adjust depending on where he goes. Okay. So we have this anticipatory translation principle, but we should also have a revisionism translation principle, where you go back and change what you did before, because now he went a different way.

Okay. So I have a feeling this section is going to be like that. And I'm sorry not to satisfy you completely the first time, but as he can tell you, sometimes it's more fun the second time.

All right. Chivalatena kevamangate. Now, I'm suggesting this might say, if it was taught to two-year-olds, okay, if your meal was meant for two-year-olds, then we can say, not certain.

It's not certain. And we'll see what he's going to say. And there are some easy parts which are comforting, and then there's the rest.

Okay, here we go. Go ahead.

[Speaker 2]
te nyi ma tong yip ping tong nga ngen de pa lom sem de te nyi ma tong They don't see suchness.

[Speaker 1]
They have not-seen-emptiness, which makes them a? Chiva.

[Speaker 2]
Chiva. Chiva.

[Speaker 1]
And they have lom. Anybody lom? Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
Delusions of gratitude.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, delusions. Lom sem. Yeah, lom sem.

It comes in a tantric vow. Of lom sem about nilnjur.

[Speaker 2]
Thinking you're a yogi.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, thinking you're a yogi, in the classic sense of a yogi, meaning a high practitioner. Okay, not someone who can do shavasana. All right.

Okay. te nyi ma tong So they have delusions about the meaning of the world and about the meaning of nirvana, meaning korva and nirvana, about samsara and nirvana. They have delusions.

So now you've got yu me, and you've got ngu and ngu me, and you've got an interpretation of ngu and ngu me as korva and nirvana, because they depend on the normal stuff and the unchanging thing, meaning suchness. Okay? Okay?

Yeah, ngupo represents korva. Okay. And ngu me represents nyangde, because nyangde is based on seeing the thing which is not a thing, which is emptiness.

Okay? Okay? Which is unchanging.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Okay? Unreal, in a sense. Okay, got it?

So, he's gonna say, you can explain yu and me po, this cute idea of things are not quite existing and things are not quite, don't exist. You can try to explain it to non-Aryas, but they will always misinterpret both of them. They will always misinterpret both of them.

Lom-sem, delusional. They will be delusional about both. Okay?

Alright? So, the guy's gonna say, when Buddha taught real and unreal, what he was referring to was the state of nirvana as unreal, and the state of your normal life as real. Okay?

Yeah, and then we're gonna say, yeah, but it's not, there's no, there's no certainty that a two-year-old will even get those words, because they will always have this philosophical addiction about them. Okay? They will always misinterpret any word.

Okay? Maybe we should add dun-dan-par.

[Speaker 2]
Alt. Alt. I have some real sympathy for using nuh, especially since we're talking to the lower schools, and it implies functioning or not functioning, which is what it means to be real in the schools that we're talking to anyway.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, that's true. That's a good point. But we're just talking about the functionalists.

And don't forget, his whole text is...

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. The higher schools proving the lower schools.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, it's proving to the lower schools that Buddha was talking about the higher schools, not the lower schools. Anyway, sorry. Okay.

What's the jikten doing there? The world, meaning korwa. Okay?

Meaning sansara. It's a synonym. Oh, jikten dang nyang-e.

Yeah, yeah. Which we're about to see is equivalent to saying nuh and nuh-me. Yeah.

Which is equivalent to saying korwa and nyang-de. Got it. Which is equivalent to saying yod-pa and me-pa.

[Speaker 2]
Wow.

[Speaker 1]
Okay? There's three levels of parallelism going on.

[Speaker 2]
Is that counterintuitive, this text?

[Speaker 1]
Well, Nagarjuna was already on acid, and then you got an acid head interpreting him. Right. So be ready for a wild ride.

So I better take some acid. Yeah, yeah. I heard somebody, one teacher asked me to do a paper on Edgar Allan Poe.

What do you call it? The Cask of Amontillado.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, yeah, cool.

[Speaker 1]
Which is about wine. Yeah. But getting plastered up in a room or something.

But anyway, I read that Poe always got drunk before he wrote, so I got drunk and wrote the paper, and tried to say that was cool, but the teacher wasn't very impressed. Okay. Got it.

That's a cool story. Yeah, it was a very noble attempt. Okay, so please read.

Here's a Budhkoski Kena. Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
Is there no pre-Nino in that word?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, it sounds like lane. Lane. Like a passing lane.

Okay. Just this one sentence is like unbelievable. Okay.

So I'm going to give you a clue by scrolling up. Why am I giving you a clue? I'm even giving you a clue about why I'm giving you a clue.

Okay.

[Speaker 2]
He's interwoven.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, he's interwoven it. Yeah, great. This says tatva, and this says tatvata.

Anyway, he's playing with denyi. And most commentators would be happy to put another word next to it that would explain it. But he split the word and put some in between.

And he expects us to know he did it, because he follows it with matong, which is the same as in the root text. So, he's being cute. He said, check out what I just did.

I kept the matong, but look what's in front of it. Dekodanyi instead of denyi. But now you know it means suchness, instead of thusness.

Okay? He uses suchness to explain thusness. Yeah, jiva almost defined by matong.

And that's a joke on... tonglam. Yeah, tonglam.

Yeah, they didn't reach tonglam. Path of seeing. Okay.

Namni. We had rangtsamba. Where did we have rangtsamba today?

Oh, in his text. gewa dammi gewa rangtsamba. Mayin.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, they don't have virtue or non-virtue in their own nature, like by definition.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, but in English you can say, real. Real. Okay?

What's not really good karma or bad karma? What's not really? Yeah, the mental seeds.

The storage facility is comically neutral. But they had proofs for why it had to be. I mean, they had proofs for why it had to be.

They had three... They had three...

[Speaker 2]
Oh, logical reasons?

[Speaker 1]
Telngirs. They had three prasangikas. They were telngirs.

Yeah, okay. Okay, so he's defying two-year-olds, those who haven't seen Emptiness. They take...

And I don't think this should be a P-A-S, you know. First of all, it should be pa. At least pa.

Okay, I'm going to say at least pa. At least this. More likely pa.

Okay. I mean, you can say pes, but it's more comfortable if you said just say nyipa. Okay?

They believe... Who? The chivas.

Chivas believe that sansara is a pang ca. Something to be given up. Something you must...

Get rid of. Get rid of. I like get rid of nowadays for pang ca.

What I don't like is abandoned. No, people used to translate it as abandoned for years, for decades. I don't think it's appropriate.

Anyway, sansara is not to be abandoned. Abandoned we only do with cars and children. Okay?

No, in English. That's the connotation in English. So don't...

Come on. Don't use that for pang ca. Okay.

Anyway, something to get rid of. Okay? Yeah.

It's jikten, which means...

[Speaker 2]
Korwa.

[Speaker 1]
Korwa. He's glossing it for you. He's glossing it for you.

And you're going to put all the bowls in for me. Or for you. Okay.

So, they believe that sansara, in and of itself, is what we should... Give up.

[Speaker 2]
Get rid of.

[Speaker 1]
Get rid of. Okay? And they also believe that nyang de is rang tsem par, rang ja.

In and of itself, something to be reached. Nirvana. Okay?

And then he gives an explanation of what is nyang de. It's what? Cutting off of the person.

De gin che.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. Cutting off the flow of the person.

[Speaker 1]
Well, what's the de? It has to be something he's mentioned recently.

[Speaker 2]
Nirvana?

[Speaker 1]
No.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, korwa.

[Speaker 1]
Cycle.

[Speaker 2]
The cycle.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, it's got to be korwa de. Korwa de gin che pa. Okay.

And he's trying to be... What do you call it? He's trying to fit in with somebody.

When he uses the word gin che pa. Why?

[Speaker 2]
Because the higher schools don't believe.

[Speaker 1]
No, but normally we don't see korwa gin che pa, we see bhem rik gin che pa. Which is the lower definition of nirvana. The discontinuation of mind and body.

And they believe you blink out when you reach nirvana. So he's trying to use their language. You can feel he's trying to use their language.

Yeah, it's like a discontinuation, but let's call it samsara. Let's not say body and mind. And he's kind of pushing them.

But the point is, they have lom-sem. They have a delusion about rong semba of korwa, and rong semba of tarpa. When Buddha teaches to non-I's, Look, there's this thing called samsara.

There's this thing called liberation. There's this thing called emptiness, ngu me. There's this thing called, you know, the normal world.

Even when he's trying to teach them that distinction, this is the pen that comes from you. This is the pen that comes from itself. They still take both of them as self-existent.

Rong semba. And they lom. Lom-sem.

They're delusional. Yeah, even as they're being taught the way to get over the delusion. They're delusions about the teaching.

Into yo pa and me pa. You teach them, yo pa pa ni den dro dro, me pa pa ni nye nye lom dro, they'll take it to be self-existent. Okay, you make the distinction between yo pa and me pa to achiva, they'll still take it the wrong way.

Okay, which is why we have to add, ultimately speech. That's an insight, John. No, the one...

You were here. You were here. Lom-sem.

Now he explains lom-sem for you because it's so unusual. And Nagarjuna was being poetic, which is so unusual. And he said, look, Nagarjuna's delusional mind means lom-pa shem-pa, and we had it downstairs...

[Speaker 2]
Abhi attachment, super attachment.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, we had it downstairs today for like ten minutes.

[Speaker 2]
Abhi like from abhi.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, higher. Yeah, it means attachment in a deeper sense. Lom-pa here means in a deeper sense.

They are attached, but in a deeper sense. It's not that they want a house or they want a car. They're attached to thinking things come from themselves.

Okay, that's their lom-pa shem-pa problem. Okay, this sentence is unbelievable. Just this one sentence is, you know, got so much stuff in it.

He's very difficult. It's going to be difficult to translate in a way that people can appreciate everything he's doing. Okay.

[Speaker 2]
Well, I just said deeper.

[Speaker 1]
But what's lom-pa nga-gyo? Super pride. Yeah, super pride.

In that case it means worser. Worser pride. Higher, you know, prouder than proud.

Okay, go ahead. Okay. Yeah, I want to leave it there.

Divide and conquer with Gyaltsabje. Maybe we paste this sentence back together later. But right now let's divide and conquer.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Even if all you want to do is to inspire, gye, even if all you want to do is inspire in a desire to give up, dor-ja, right? We had it. It's coming in her text.

There are gyal-war dor-wa vows. There are gyal-war dor-wa vows, which means vows where you ignored people. And it's going to be about not taking care of your students when they're sick.

And the nuns commit to take care of the other nuns when they're sick. And if you don't, it's a gyal-war dor-wa. Okay, it means, you know, you've ignored them.

Here it's dor-wa, which means that's what we want to do to samsara. We want to trash it. It means toss it.

It literally means toss it, okay? So, by the way, in Dr. Wu's text there was a dor-wa, which was por-wa. Por-wa.

Something happened, do you remember? Damn, you are hot. I'm so glad I didn't put a thousand dollars on that.

He got thrown into the burial ground with his mother. This is some story. He got por-wa into the dor-wa sin.

Don't worry, her breasts started to make milk. With his dead mother, he was thrown into that. De-che krod-sam-ne dor-dur kye-pa-na.

So, if all you want to do, I'm sorry, if you want to give up just samsara, simple samsara, meaning samsara as you understand it or misunderstand it, nayang, if all you want to do is get your student to give up just samsara, what's the mayang?

[Speaker 2]
Their understanding of samsara.

[Speaker 1]
Not for all beings. Because we are talking to lower school guys. We are talking to lower school guys, okay?

So, if all you want to do is get them to give up samsara, much less save all other beings from samsara, okay? Even if that's all you want to do, even, okay? Yi la bap means fit their mind, comfortable for their mind.

Yi la bap means fell to the mind. But what it means is a presentation which is comfortable for them, okay? Yi la bap.

You should kor-wa rang-tsen-pa, me-par-ten-pa, You should still teach them that there's a nirvana way across. I don't like this. This bothers me.

[Speaker 2]
Seems to contradict itself. I would think that their minds are still going to go to thinking that kor-wa has rang-tsen. No, it's kor-wa rang-tsen me-par.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, it would have been more comfortable with kor-wa rang-tsen. Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
So, will fall from their mind? Like their mind won't be able to hold it? Like, okay.

[Speaker 1]
By the way, there's another way you can read this, okay, just to throw more into the pot. To teach that kor-wa is not rang-tsen-pa. To teach that there doesn't exist a kor-wa rang-tsen-pa.

Okay? But what we expect him... I mean, Nagarjuna's position in the sixty verses is Buddha did teach emptiness to the lower schools, okay?

I believe he's talking about jang-e in this paragraph. Okay? You teach what fits the student.

Okay?

[Speaker 2]
Like, if you said kor-wa rang-tsen-pa...

[Speaker 1]
That would be a lot more comfortable. But there must be a point to the me-pa. I have a feeling it is me-pa.

But then it wouldn't yi-la-bap.

[Speaker 2]
Right. Does the yi-la-bap apply to the stuff that comes before yang?

[Speaker 1]
Well, let's go on, okay? Let's send the paratroopers over, and let's go back, okay? de me-na If not, okay?

de me-na If there's no self-existent sansara, okay? I'm going to say this. I'm going to say this means...

[Speaker 2]
We put it back together.

[Speaker 1]
I did. Okay, just a theory. Just a...

what do you call it? Yeah, theory? Hypothesis, yeah, okay.

Okay, kor-wa rang-tsen-pa me-la If it doesn't exist in and of itself, then they would believe that there's no sansara, which is the discontinuation of it.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. I'm going to read backwards, okay? And I, again, I'm sorry, I didn't figure this out.

They would be able, new, let's go like this kind of speed. They would be able to realize that there was no such nirvana where you discontinued nirvana, okay? If it was rang-tsen-pa.

[Speaker 2]
Where you discontinued sansara, right? There'd be no nirvana where you discontinued sansara.

[Speaker 1]
I'm sorry, yeah. A nirvana which consisted of the discontinuation of sansara cannot refer to a sansara which is in and of itself. Because you couldn't discontinue that kind of sansara.

I think, okay. It is only if sansara has no nature of its own, hey, I understand that part. It is only if sansara has no nature of its own that you would be able to realize nirvana.

And I'm going to take this tok as top, which sometimes it can mean. And when I make a note to myself as a theory, I put sw. That's a secret.

It means swan. That's a different thing. This means my own opinion.

Equals top, okay? Equals top. My theory is, sometimes he uses tok as top.

Okay, I think even in the root text. No. Sorry, that was somebody else's text.

Okay. Top, that's in your text. It's coming in your text.

Tok as to achieve. Meaning to realize in the sense of manifest. Okay.

er shen yang de su tok nyu pe ji ba na ten yang Even if you teach it to a ji ba, a two-year-old, jung dun du sung pe it would have been said to them in a way that was figurative, because they couldn't taste the real one. Okay, they wouldn't accept the real one. So, even if you teach it to them as jung dun, no, because you teach it...

Oh, I got it. Okay. What did the Buddha say in the third turning of the wheel about the second turning of the wheel?

[Speaker 2]
It's figurative.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Even if you tell them, swan, this is definitely a swan. Even if you tell them that when I said samsara didn't exist in and of itself, I was being...

Figurative. Figurative, nice. Very nice.

Okay. Okay.

[Speaker 2]
Okay. There's definitely not much else.

[Speaker 1]
Would they still get it?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. He's saying no, no.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Okay, so I'm not happy. I'm not finished with this paragraph, but I think we should go on.

Okay. Yeah, I mean, in my early years, when I couldn't read it all very well, I would just read it and go do something else for a day and then I'd come back to it. And this is the...

Your text is a two-day text. I have to come back to it the next day to see it. Your day is like a four-day text.

Your book is like a four-day text. You know, you gotta read it, go away from it, come back, read it again, go away from it, come back. Okay?

[Speaker 2]
Yep. Okay.

[Speaker 1]
It'd be interesting to try to find a slightly easier commentary, but I don't think they would go through this stuff at all. You know? The root text is clear.

The root text is clear, okay? At this point. They haven't seen suchness, and they interpret the distinction between sansara and nirvana as being self-existent.

That's clear. That's the meaning of the root text. How Gyaltsabje is reading it, with his ma-kyab and ma-du, I still gotta cook that.

But let's go on.

[Speaker 2]
I want to wonder if the way that they're taking it is figurative, because they don't have the capacity to see it literally. Even if you tell them the way it is, their minds will take it in a figurative way, because they don't see the root. And that's what it means to take the literal means to be in Arya.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. The other school's position on the third turning of the wheel, especially the third school's position on the turning of the wheel, is that it is... Correct.

Madden. It's the real one, in which he fudges, in which he vacillates about the second turning of the wheel. So even if you tell them the Madden, they'll take it as Chanda.

Yeah, yeah. But I still gotta cook it. I still gotta cook it.

Tough kid. Don't know.

[Speaker 2]
We'll see. We'll know by the end of the book. We wrote a book about him, it goes a little something like this.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, wow. The next sentence is pertinent, and it's easier. Okay, so here we go.

Mm-hmm. Shal ki she means accepted. It's honorific for accepted.

So when he adds shal ki, by the holy lips, accepted, it gotta refer to the Buddha. The verb has to refer to the Buddha, okay?

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
So, some people, gashik, okay, some people had a... attachment to things. And there's Ngopo again, okay, as opposed to nunme.

Okay. Well, it's either he's being cute and getting in another Ngopo, or it refers to the Ngopo of Ngopo and nunme. We don't know yet, okay?

But anyway, some people had an attachment to things as being rang semba, rang semba. And to doke their semba...

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, in order to turn their views around.

[Speaker 1]
Dun du means in order to. Dun du means in order to flip their attachment to things as real, okay? The Buddha taught about kornde rang semba.

Sansara, which existed in itself, and then nirvana, which existed in itself. He accepted that they were not self-existent to bring them along in understanding that nothing is... I'm sorry.

He accepted that they were self-existent in order to help people understand they weren't self-existent, to bring them along. Because if he had hit them with not self-existent in the beginning, they would have left the class, which is something a teacher will encounter from time to time, okay? You know, you have to dumb things down, or the guy will leave.

And then they'll never get to the non-dumb-down version, so you give them the dumb-down version to get them to the non-dumb-down version, and you swear the dumb-down version was the real one. I mean, that's what's going on here, okay? That's what's going on here, all right?

She ngo kona, only for the benefit of others. Only for... only to them.

Ngo, right? Meaning, it's a mayinga.

[Speaker 2]
It doesn't apply to others.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, he did not say this kind of thing to others. It was designed for, designed for chedu, right? It was designed for people who couldn't handle it, okay?

Got it? And that's the only reason he ever accepted sheshal kishe lopos, which were self-existent, rang sembah.

[Speaker 2]
Sorry, accepted... Accepted or said?

[Speaker 1]
Said it, accepting, you know? Yeah, yeah. Accepted it.

Said it in a way where it appeared that he accepted. How's that? Said it in an accepting way, that sansara and nirvana were in and of themselves.

But it was to get them to stick around until the day he could say, but they're not, okay? So that sentence is hard, but it's doable.

[Speaker 2]
Sheshal, how does this kind of help them?

[Speaker 1]
They will collect seeds by desiring to get out of, at least they will understand their life is suffering. You know? And they'll do good deeds and then, they'll do enough good deeds.

Somebody in his China Sattva program, we were discussing the different kinds of gacchas. We went through every single kind of gaccha. And then they said, I know why Buddha taught those lower gacchas.

And I'm like, yeah, okay, what? And I said, I just wanted to go on because they were interrupting me. And they said, well, if they believe the lowest gaccha is that things are unchanging.

That's the lowest gaccha. So, you know, so if the student just tries to cancel the idea that things are unchanging, I'm going to be around for a while. My wife, my house, my car, my body, okay?

Those will be around for a while. That's a gaccha. And then, you know, if you act on that gaccha, then you're getting ready for the next gaccha.

So one of the benefits of lower gacchas is they get you ready for the next gaccha up. And you keep like a ladder. You go up to the gacchas.

So I think that's the same idea here. Yeah, there is a thing called samsara. There is a thing called nirvana.

They do come from themselves. They don't depend on your seeds. And you should try to get there.

And then the person will try to do good karma and try to avoid bad karma. And because of that, they will be ready to teach that those things don't come from themselves. Okay.

Okay, go. It'd be very good if we could get through this sentence.

[Speaker 2]
Okay. . .

. Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
. . .

means statements in sutra. Okay. It just means, it doesn't mean people or stuff like that.

You know. Statements in sutras. Okay.

In the scriptures. Statements in the scriptures, where the Buddha says there is no self-nature to people and there is no self-nature to things. Statements by people like that.

Okay. . .

. Those are the only literal things the Buddha ever said. Okay.

. . .

Those are always literal. . .

. . .

. We must accept this. Okay.

This is that kind of Chang-e position that the only thing the Buddha ever really wanted to talk about was emptiness. And when he talked about other things, he was just putting up with a lower audience. Uh-huh.

Right. It's a very beautiful thing in the Chang-e literature. Buddha was like, I gotta talk about emptiness, but this guy's not ready.

Okay, let's talk about Lojong. You know, sorry. Okay.

You know, what he really wanted to do is like holding himself back because the audience is not ready. Somehow that relates to the last few sections. Okay.

So definitely we're on the subject of figurative and literal. The last few sections we're talking about that. So that gives us, that's the paratrooper theory of translation.

[Speaker 2]
Right.

[Speaker 1]
Jump over the things you don't understand, defeat the next group of army, and then go back and fight with the things you didn't understand. So now we have some more information that we can go back with and see how it applies to the two paragraphs before. Cool.

Some Chang-e is going on. And the wrong look is that only the statements about no self-existence were literal. Okay.

Stop here. Tough. It's a tough one.

It gets slightly easier next time.

[Speaker 2]
We keep saying it's getting easier.

[Speaker 1]
Did I keep saying that? Well, there's half we understand here. You know, I think it is getting easier.

[Speaker 2]
It's a gradual progression toward easier.

[Speaker 1]
There's a funny emotion you get when you get to something easier, which is, I wish I was back in the other stuff. There is this. You know, this is not so...

It's like surfing a really hard wave and then you surf a couple of okay waves and then you're like, I wish I was back on that killer wave. I could show my stuff. Shogay.

I'm in the mood to teach a yoga class.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah!

[Speaker 1]
If you don't mind. Let's do it. Great.