Классика Алмазного огранщика: Верхний Срединный путь — Великие книги мудрости, занятие 13

[Speaker 1]
Somebody tell me the issue that we're in the middle of, I mean, do you remember? Yeah, during the direct perception of emptiness, do you have a mind or not? Okay, during the direct perception of emptiness, does your mind shut down?

Is the mind suspended? That was the question. So just remember where we are.

And then, you know, he was trying to go somewhere with the expression, nyong nyong tsampe so. You know, it's all experience. But then we said, no, no, no, that expression, it's all experience, is not saying there's no state of mind.

It's just saying there is a state of mind, but it's normal. It's also coming from see. Okay?

Now we're ready to start a new start, a new part. Dade, do you want to read that? Dade dana der dzin nam jipar gyur te, lo khe lang ne sung nam tha, thada gyi wempey chir jena.

Dade dana, if that's the way it is, okay, der, in that instance, meaning... In the direct perception of emptiness. Yeah, der dzin nam.

Holder, holders. The aspect of a subject mind, as opposed to the aspect of an object. The subject aspect.

As opposed to sung nam, which comes in the next line. So in that case, there would be a subject aspect at that point.

[Speaker 2]
There would be.

[Speaker 1]
Then it says, lo khe lang ne, past tense of khe len. Taken or accepted. Once you have accepted that there's a mind.

But, okay, wem... Oh, sorry. Wempey.

Same as tongpa. When you see? Tongpa.

Empty?

[Speaker 2]
Empty.

[Speaker 1]
I'm sorry, which one? Oh, the wempey. Okay, so you're saying it's the same.

But there is no, or we're far away from? Yeah, yeah, it's devoid of. Each and every.

Tadak means tamche, but it's more strong. Each and every sung nam. Object state of mind?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, good.

[Speaker 1]
Object aspect. Object aspect. So, okay.

You can have a subject aspect in the mind, but it's not going to have any object aspect. It's all suspended. There's no direct association, emptiness.

Chinna.

[Speaker 2]
Chinna.

[Speaker 1]
It says? If that's where you want to go? Is that what you're saying?

Okay. You got to go that way? Yeah, yeah, you have a subject state of mind, but there's no object.

There's no object aspect. Aspect, of course, means how does the mind, what's the flavor of the mind at that moment, okay? It's one of the tsung dang na.

It's one of the five qualities of the mind. It takes on a certain coloration. And the example in the Yoga Sutra is?

A rose. A crystal. White paper with a ruby on the top.

And then it looks like the paper's red. So, okay, so, you know, there is this kind of flavoring in the mind of a subject. I can buy that, but no, but no, sorry.

Yeah, subject. But in that case, there'd be no object. No, no awareness of an object.

So is that Gyaltsabje saying, or are you saying that there is? I think it's him saying, I think he's saying that. Okay, I can buy the subject aspect, but then that means devoid of any and all object aspect.

But he's asking him, right? He's saying, are you saying? Yeah, if you say that.

I believe it's Gyaltsabje talking. Okay. If you say, I accept the dzinnam now, but we got to say there's no tsung nam.

Right, right, right, right, right, right. Okay. I believe, although it's very difficult here.

[Speaker 2]
I guess we'll see.

[Speaker 1]
And I don't trust my English, because I change every day. But there's no problem. Dzinme te.

No problem. Dön chuky nampe wenpa yin kyi. It's correct.

[Speaker 2]
Chuky nampe yin kyi. That it's devoid.

[Speaker 1]
Dön kapar mi jang. You can say that the mind is devoid of any aspect, which is a thing which is involved with dependence. Dön is a synonym for pretend.

Oh. The definition of Tendrel is...

[Speaker 2]
Tendrel?

[Speaker 1]
That's the definition of dependent origination. Ten ching dra wa ching wang. Pratityasamutpada.

What's the definition of it? That which depends on something else to exist? Yeah.

What's it in Tibetan? Dön ne drupa. Dön ne drupa.

Exists through reliance.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So this is the dön.

[Speaker 1]
It doesn't mean to see. Dön chuky nampe wenpa yin kyi. So you could say that the mind is devoid of anything dependent?

Of any... Okay, yeah. Okay, let's have an aspect of subject which doesn't rely on an object as its support.

Uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh. Sure. Uh-huh.

Fine. Uh-huh. Right, right.

Just a subject. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I believe it's just super sarcastic.

Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, okay.

[Speaker 1]
Let's talk about a mind which is devoid of any aspect which could rely on another thing. Meaning, let's say subject state of mind with no object. Uh-huh.

Okay. Yeah, okay. All right.

Okay, now this is the alambana thing, right? You've got to get used to thinking of objects as the foundation and mind as resting on it, okay? The mind...

There is blue out there, and then there's the perception of blue rests on the blue. And that's called... That's one kind of dependent origination actually, okay?

You've got to have a mikten, object factor. Uh-huh. Mikten.

You've got to have a blue for the consciousness of blue to rest upon. Uh-huh, yeah. If you take away the blue, there's no awareness of blue.

[Speaker 2]
Right.

[Speaker 1]
Okay? There's no aspect in the mind, coloration of the mind, of blueness, if there's no blue out there for it to rest on. Okay.

But okay. You want to have the blueness in the mind without a blue out there? Right.

Zinnam with no sunnam. Okay. That's like people say, you know, subject with no object during the dark perception emptiness.

But the word for subject in Tibetan is...

[Speaker 2]
Object holder?

[Speaker 1]
Object holder. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Give me a break.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And in Sanskrit, deshan, having a desha.

[Speaker 2]
Desha.

[Speaker 1]
Deshan. Desha means yul.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, yeah. Desha. Country or object of perception.

Object, subject, object is...

[Speaker 2]
Desha, country.

[Speaker 1]
Deshan is the one holding the desha. The word for subject is the object holder. Don't tell me there's subjects without an object.

Right. Give me a break. Okay, man.

Completely devoid of any... Okay?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
But that's not going to... That's not going to be enough to stop the impression of a real nature to things.

[Speaker 2]
Uh-huh.

[Speaker 1]
Uh-huh. That's not going to be enough to stop the impression that... That's going to not be enough to stop the mental appearance of...

This jihni I take as a negative.

[Speaker 2]
Wow.

[Speaker 1]
Of a real nature to things.

[Speaker 2]
Uh-huh.

[Speaker 1]
Uh... Because that's what has to be happening in... The direct perception of emptiness.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, good. But I would... Okay.

[Speaker 1]
What do you mean it's a negative? Normally chun yi is a good thing. Normally chun yi is a surname for shun yi ta.

It's tarma ta. Normally tarma ta is a surname for shun yi ta. I take it here as a negative.

Because you're saying to gawk it. We're trying to stop the impression that things have some quality of their own. I take it as tarma ta here.

The goal of what? The path of seeing, the direct perception, emptiness. Is to stop this impression that things have the nature of their own.

And all you want to do is take the blue away? Yeah, okay man. You want to have a subject state of mind without an object?

And you think that's going to stop you from thinking things have their own nature? Yeah, okay. Yeah, good luck.

Can I translate mi jiao as good luck? Yeah, okay. Mi jiao is it wouldn't have to do that.

And by the way in the next line. I think it's don't do it. It wouldn't have to do that.

It wouldn't have to stop the idea that things have their own nature. It's not going to do anything to your bad habit of thinking that things have their own nature. Okay.

And I advise you, qian dou. Can you just think about something? He's continuing this style.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He asked you to just think about something.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, yeah. So qian mei te is just totally sarcastic. I think it's got to be.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, yeah, no problem. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, perfect.

Yeah, I know. I'm kind of glad that thing happened to him with the poop out of the cow. Perfect, perfect.

Take away the blue, watch the blue, and that's going to stop your ignorance.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, yeah. No problem.

[Speaker 1]
I like it, I like it. I love that I get to translate that. I'm so sarcastic.

But it's really difficult. Danny says qian dou, the next paragraph says. Come on, check it out man.

Qian dou, at the end of the next paragraph. Right, right, right. Can you just please think about one thing?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Qian dou. Can you just please consider something?

This is the one that means examine. D.P. Can you think about a certain book that has a line that starts with junwa che. The great elements.

Mahabhuta. Sachu me lung nam kha. I guess this is this same text.

Sachu me lung nam kha. Sachu me lung nam kha. Can you just try to think about a book that has a line that starts with the great elements.

Nagarjuna? It's this text. It's later on in this text.

Now, he's attacking people who misinterpret this text. He's been attacking people. Remember with the prostration?

And they had all these weird ideas about the prostration. And he was attacking them. And now he's like, gee, there's a book that has a line that starts with the great elements.

He's making a joke because it comes later in this book. So I went and got it for you. Yeah, from this commentary.

Yeah. Because we can't continue unless you understand that verse. So we're going to go ahead a year and a half and go talk about a very difficult verse because we can't understand this part without going to that verse.

[Speaker 2]
Right, right.

[Speaker 1]
So we're kind of, don't worry, we're not taking time up because it's going to Cut time later.

[Speaker 2]
We don't have to deal with it later.

[Speaker 1]
I wasn't too worried. Yeah, and at this point I felt like I had to number the verses. Right, yeah, yeah.

I went and numbered them. Maybe you did it already, I don't know. Not all the verses, no.

By the way, this is probably wrong. This note to myself is wrong. But I found 61 verses.

I get 61. Isn't that something? No, you tell me what happened here.

Here's the 61st.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. That's nice.

[Speaker 1]
In fact, this seems to be where that verse comes from.

[Speaker 2]
Wow. And, uh, yes. That's awesome.

[Speaker 1]
It doesn't really count. It's just the ending prayer.

[Speaker 2]
It's not a verse on reasoning.

[Speaker 1]
Don't worry, the 60 verses don't have 61 verses.

[Speaker 2]
That's the 61st of the 60 verses. That's beautiful.

[Speaker 1]
That's so amazing.

[Speaker 2]
I'm so happy.

[Speaker 1]
I think the Guardian said, I'll give you that one for free. I'm not going to call it the 61 verses. I'll write my own commentary on it.

So, I like to be able to give the number of the verse that he's quoting in advance. It happens a lot in Stanley's text. That whole thing about stainless valves and stuff.

He took that from way down in the text. And I have, because I translated the whole thing from a different commentary, I've numbered them all. I went through, it was a lot of work.

I made a dictionary for that. It took me like three years on the bus. Four hours a day.

[Speaker 2]
Wait a second.

[Speaker 1]
But what I'm saying is I've already numbered all the verses. So, we can actually jump ahead and see. What I wanted was that Nick be able to give the verse number.

For the verse ahead. We're going to look up Juno Che. And it's 35.

Here's the verse 35. He jumps ahead to 35. So, I'm actually going to footnote my own text.

So, here I've got it in this I went and got it for you. Juno Che. Let's look at it.

I also blocked out the root text in the commentary for you. Yeah, I got that. Thank you.

Let's do pieces which are incoherent. Let's go do pieces which happen to be incoherent. But it will help you later.

So, Juno Che. The elements, the four elements or the five elements, what are called the four elements or the five elements in Buddhism are called Buddha, which means Juno. Buddha.

Which means element. And sometimes they're called Mahabuddha. Sometimes they're called the great elements.

So, that's Juno Che. So, it's earth, water, fire, wind. Sometimes they add words, sometimes they add consciousness, sometimes they add space.

But anyway, the basic four, I assume. Lasok Shepa. Explaining things such as the elements?

Things that were talked about such as the elements. Namo Sheso Yong Drak Du. This du means can be included into.

Can be included easily. Into consciousness. These can be included into consciousness.

If you understand, they lose it. It's code. Don't stress.

If you understand, you lose it. And wouldn't that be a wrong way of talking about it? I'm glad that when I tried to translate some of these verses, it sounded kind of like that.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, it's like LSD.

[Speaker 1]
Nagarjuna, I love him. And we're going to do wisdom after we finish. So, isn't it a wrong way of talking about it?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
It's a sarcastic question. Wouldn't that be a wrong way Okay, got it? Now we'll go through his commentary to it.

Let's consider causal physical form and resulting physical form. This is Adam's text. Let's consider the elements of physical form and the results of those elements.

So the conglomerates which are made from the elements are called devusuk. The table is the result of the interaction of the four elements in the wood. So the four elements are called causal physical form and the table is called resulting physical form.

So we divide all physical form into causal and resulting. Would causal always be those four elements? Usually, yeah.

So let's consider causal physical form which is the four great elements. So here he limits himself to satchu-myo. Let's consider the four causal physical elements and et cetera from the verse.

Okay, here's the first line of the verse. So he wants to explain what's the et cetera. Gyatso Je is not going to sit there and let an et cetera go by.

[Speaker 2]
No way.

[Speaker 1]
What's the et cetera mean? Not on his watch. Yeah, and here it is.

Devusukchik. Suk-chu-chik. Eleven forms.

Eleven resultant forms. That's it. Eleven resultant forms.

So I went and got you those. In the Abhidharma system and in Adam's text I believe you're going to have eleven kinds of resulting physical like tables and you're going to have the four causal elements that underlie. So these are like the chemical elements of oxygen, iron, et cetera and then the eleven are the things that they produce.

Compounds? Yeah, they're like, well we call them resulting forms. So I went and got them for you.

Where are they? By the way, here are the eleven kinds of forms. Oh, was that right below?

Did you paste it in? Yeah, I did paste it in below. Yeah, go down like a page.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, like a page down. Oh, I see. Thank you.

[Speaker 1]
And I took it from Kacchen Losang Supa who is a great, great tantrica from Tashi Thimbul teacher of Geshe Thich Nhat Hanh Kacchen Supa teacher of Geshe Thich Nhat Hanh The one with the puppies? If you don't know the puppy story, talk to Jim Dayton. Now I found an extremely rare commentary on logic from Ratu Monastery which is where the winter debates used to be.

And someone walked into the computer center with this book and it's the only copy of the only commentary to the most famous logic book which is from Ratu. And it happens to be that the former abbot of Ratu is the last living Geshe from Tibet. Ratu Monastery.

[Speaker 2]
The last Talaam Geshe?

[Speaker 1]
Last Talaam Geshe from Tibet. Still alive. My teacher was one of the last but he is the last now.

So I took it to him and I said let's print it. Because I didn't have any money. And he had a lot of sponsors.

Richard Gere was his student. I said, come on, you print it, I'll do the work. You pay, I'll do the work.

He said, that sounds good. And so I worked on it and I got it all ready for publication. And then he said, you know, I have no idea what this says.

Or, you know, I'm not that good at it. But my teacher's, you know, Kachin Supa, he's good. You go ask him to check it and then we'll publish it.

You just have him check your work. So I went to Tashi Zumba Monastery which is the traditional seat of the Panchen Lama and it happens to be like a half hour taxi drive from Sereme. And I said, well, I'm supposed to meet the abbot, Kachin Supa.

And they said, ok, you wait here. And the monk took me into this room and there was a straw there was straw on the floor and there was this old guy with no teeth and skinny and he's playing with this he's feeding a puppy milk to an eyedropper and he says his mother died and I'm like, ok, I'm here to wait. And he said, ok, go ahead.

And he's feeding this and everything's dirty he's all barefoot and he's feeding this baby puppy milk and I'm waiting and then this attendant comes and he says well, let's get to it. And I said, yeah, well, show me the abbot. And he says, that is the abbot.

I'm like that's, what? And he's a great logician he was a very great logician and a great tantrica. So anyway, he wrote a dhara he wrote his own dhara and I used it for you I used it for your 11 because he has a good summary at the 11 Is that the, that's not the green book that you No, the green book is him But it's not the Seidara Isn't it the logic primer of Roto?

Oh no, that's the one we printed Yeah, it's right there Oh, it's right It's right there behind James Bond Sometimes it's green Just to the left of the shelf No, all the way to the left Oh yeah, yeah, yeah Oh, that's why I'm so used to seeing that all the time That's the book Green book So the green book is also Purple Yeah, that's it. I'm very proud of it Extremely rare DMU I'm sure Hot book, thick A lot of work Great book I like how it's bound Is it translated?

[Speaker 2]
No

[Speaker 1]
That's Adam's next project

[Speaker 2]
Yeah

[Speaker 1]
Ok, we only have a few minutes left

[Speaker 2]
Ok, sorry

[Speaker 1]
He has the 11, here it is Zilei From the Abhidharmakosha The five heaps, I mean No, you, Desha Oh, isn't it the objects of Yeah, the five objects of the senses Starting with colors and shapes, ok This Sukha doesn't mean Skanda It does not mean all physical things It means only visible things Sukhis and Vidyas It depends on context whether it means physical things or colors and shapes Here it's colors and shapes Objects of the eye Five objects of the five consciousness And then the Mik, etc

[Speaker 2]
The eyes themselves

[Speaker 1]
The five sense consciousness themselves Are they physical or mental? The sense consciousness themselves are

[Speaker 2]
No, the eye

[Speaker 1]
Physical

[Speaker 2]
Eyeball

[Speaker 1]
Optic nerve So far we got ten And strongly a number of Chima Yung Non-communicating Non-communicating The aura that grows around a person after they took a bath The invisible aura And that's considered physical But it does not communicate their intention So it's an Abhidharma idea In the first moment of taking a bath You are on your knees You look like this That's called Namarichepe Sukha Communicating It communicates your intention to other people But then after you take your vows and you're out in your business suit Nobody can tell from your physical appearance what your intentions are as far as vows And the Abhidharma system says when you take the vow and if the vow is kye

[Speaker 2]
Grow

[Speaker 1]
Then you get this cosmic photograph Is that in our school too?

Who's our school? No It's a very Abhidharma thing It's not talked about in any other school Sorry, you said the objects of the sense consciousness in the second one But isn't it the sense powers? Mikso Wangbonga?

No, Suksok Yunga is the five sense objects Mikso Wangbonga is the five sense powers Physical powers Physical seeds of the consciousnesses Your auditory nerve Your optical nerve The cells in your tongue Because these are the things made from the mahabhutas Yeah And the form that you take on after you took a vow That's the 11th Now we can go back to the original Do you have to go somewhere? I have to be in class at 1.45 Oh, 1.45? Yeah Oh, well, you've got lots of time I can pull in at the last minute I just can't be late So, I'm going back to the verse I'm going back up to the verse Let's consider the causal four elements and let's consider the 11 kinds of physicality that result from them which now you know what they are the five objects, the five sense powers and the one special kind of form which are taught in sutra So he covered the shepa Here's the shepa in the verse The teaching on the great elements, etc Okay? The teaching on the great elements, etc He's covered it Okay?

Now, shepa-ni Maripa Rangshinki Nambar shepa la Nambar tene, Nambar shamato Rupa shamana Nambar shepa kosita Maripa Rangshinki Nambar shepa la Nambar tene shamato shamana Maripa Rangshinki Nambar shepa la Nambar tene They show themselves Okay? To the consciousness Okay? Their aspect presents it This is assumed The object aspect Assumed They show themselves to the mind whose nature is misunderstanding So those objects do present themselves They're used as direct to direct We had it in Hrti Somebody tell me how

[Speaker 2]
Yeah

[Speaker 1]
That was Jew

[Speaker 2]
Oh yeah

[Speaker 1]
The yoche katte Oh, the others The supporting paraphernalia The objects were turned over Oh, the Yeah, yeah

[Speaker 2]
So here's another use

[Speaker 1]
of that rare word They present themselves Those 11 plus 4 is 15 objects which were taught in sutra They do present themselves to the consciousness whose nature is ignorance Yeah Nambar shamato As an appearance But all they can do really is just show themselves As a mirror They cannot be They cannot be decided, they cannot be established that they exist They show themselves but they cannot be established to exist by the state of mind which is ignorant And so let's just throw them into consciousness Let's just include them into consciousness This could be a description of kunshi This could be a description of kunshi which looks at the elements but isn't aware of where they come from

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, yeah, yeah

[Speaker 1]
And we're going to cover that in words time Like mik tepa but not shitopa You see them but you don't understand them Sorry Your mind is directed towards them but you don't understand them to be part of the mind In the mainomi school You see outer things but you can't appreciate that they are coming from you That they are part of your own mind That they are seeds ripening in the kunshi You think they're outside Okay, got it? So anyway I suggest we include them into consciousness So let's go back to the verse Which one now?

Oh, okay This is from your own text The great elements, etc. which have been taught And what's the etc.? Good, yeah nambar shesu yam daktu should be included into consciousness Oh, okay They look like they're out there to the ignorant mind But in truth they should be included into the mind Okay Here's kong meaning inside you from Seiji's text We said look inside kong Here it means included into the set Included into consciousness Same word, kong Different spelling nambar shepa de rang shing gi kyewa me pa shepa ni jungwa la sokpa denpa shenpa nambar shepa de If that If that consciousness ever understood shepa that does never start on their own rang shing gi kyewa me pa If that state of mind were to understand rang shing gi kyewa me pa That they I'm sorry If you ever understood that the consciousness didn't start by itself Okay If you ever understood that the consciousness didn't start by itself Then you would be freed gyur tel You would be freed from any belief deep-seated wrong belief shenpa shenpa shindro You would be freed of any belief In Madhyamika, shenpa means in self-existence You would be freed from any belief in the reality of the elements So that nambar shepa in the beginning is that that's the thing that didn't start by itself I would take it to be Now let's go back to the verse Holy This is pretty hard Yep The great elements, etc. are explained in sutra included into consciousness When you understand it If you understand they lose it?

No If you understand its nature of consciousness nambar shepa deist consciousness If you understand it finally then you are freed You are freed of any belief that the elements, etc. exist on their own Yeah, yeah, yeah Okay It's like a code It's a secret code So wouldn't you have to grasp to the fact that those self-existent elements are wrong Wouldn't you have to now get it that those self-existing elements are not what you thought Uh-huh Okay Those self-existing elements? Yeah, the elements you thought were self-existing are not what you thought Wouldn't you have to realize that they are not what you labeled them Rangli Lopa Lopar Those things which you labeled wrongly are not even what you thought Mayi nam Wouldn't you get it by then?

Uh-huh Once you realize Uh-huh Nam is a question mark Wouldn't you get it? Of course you would have to get it Wouldn't you get it when? Once you understand that the objects of consciousness It helps if you read the next two lines Okay I got that To just summarize everything The elements, etc.

Meaning the eleven These are not They don't exist through any nature of their own Right Because Because they arise in dependence Understood On their seeds They don't exist by nature Because they arise in dependence Uh-huh Nambah Sarvamato Nambah Sarvamato Except for the fact that they appear to the mind This table Except for the fact that they appear to the mind Chidin yupa shakmin yute We cannot say they are outer things Chidin means outer things We can no longer say they are outer things They are just an object Of the mind

[Speaker 2]
Aspect

[Speaker 1]
They are just an object aspect of the mind Uh-huh That's the point of this verse Okay The elements are just an object factor In the mind They don't have an outer existence Right Okay Outer existing elements And eleven products of the elements That's a good way to say resulting form

[Speaker 2]
Right

[Speaker 1]
Are just as Existing as a Mosham Kippur As a barren woman As a barren woman's baby As the child of a barren woman Yeah, yeah Sky flower Flower that grew in the middle of the sky Got it? The physical things you think you see Are just things appearing to your mind Are just object aspects In your mind Okay And they have no outer existence Independent of the mind Of the seeds And if you said they have an outer existence Independent of the seeds They would be equal to The child of a woman who never had children Got it?

[Speaker 2]
It's much better Now If you're a menopause, you're barren But that doesn't mean you don't have kids

[Speaker 1]
By the way, the next part of His commentary The next part of Gyaltsabje, way down below Listen, stay with me I'm with you Treats why zindams exist Why subject states of mind Yeah, why subject aspects exist Yeah But the part we just finished Is an explanation Of why sungnams exist And how they exist

[Speaker 2]
Okay

[Speaker 1]
Tables, coffees, green drinks Exist as Appearances to the mind Okay, sungnam So don't go telling me That there's no sungnam In this verse Way back when Okay Now let's go back to where we were Okay When we're discussing The direct perception of emptiness Don't tell me it's possible To have a subject side of the mind But not an object side of the mind Because this book itself says There's an object side of the mind Back down in 35 Right, right Gyaltsabje Gyaltsabje, who's he talking to? He's talking to People who say the mind is cancelled During the direct perception Don't give me that Stuff Were we talking about the direct perception Of emptiness in 35? No No, he's just saying the objects exist In 35 He said You can have a zindam and a sungnam And we're explaining He says Tadak, sungnam tadaki uemba Was the wording Totally devoid of any kind Any and all sungnams And then we just went down and explained What's a sungnam and why we do have them Is the 35 verse Specifically talking about the direct perception Of emptiness?

Probably not Yeah, so it doesn't But I think the point of 35 is You cannot have a zindam Without a sungnam Right, that's the point he's trying to make Because he started by saying Okay, if you accepted zindam And Following that explanation Which we don't have time to cover Is the explanation of zindam Right In 35 And that's more what the last guy was saying Didn't exist anyway, right? Originally He started by saying no zindam Then he said no sungnam And we said You can have a cup Sitting on a table with no table Right So we just went through that Yeah And now we go back to Yeah, that was mean to go so far down Okay I guess we have to stop there Are we done? I mean, it's 1.30, this is the time to stop Yeah Very difficult Yeah, it's pretty difficult It goes down to a later part of the book That we were trying to learn Thanks a lot I don't like it when they do that The first time, he does that a lot He proves chapter 1 with chapter 8 Then you're like I haven't gone to chapter 8

[Speaker 2]
Which should probably build off chapter 1 anyway

[Speaker 1]
Right But it's a custom to do that Okay Well, thank you

[Speaker 2]
Chanting

[Speaker 1]
Chanting

[Speaker 2]
Chanting Chanting Chanting