Классика Алмазного огранщика: Верхний Срединный путь — Великие книги мудрости, занятие 3

[Speaker 1]
So he said, I'm going to explain the 60 verses of reasoning by Arya Nagarjuna. Generally, its purpose is to show that all the teachings' true intent is that of the great school of the Middle Way. And more specifically, its purpose is to reverse the wrong ideas of the lower schools about the nature of things starting and stopping, okay?

Dīlā, and so, for this task, did you have a question?

[Speaker 2]
Is it that their idea that starting and stopping don't occur on their own, is their wrong idea?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, that is their wrong idea. In order to stop the wrong ideas of those who believe that things start and stop on their own.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, I thought he said that they don't occur on their own. Okay, I misunderstood that.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, got it? Now, I don't know if it's a special goal of the 60 verses to address Hinayana scriptures, but he seems to be implying that. I hope it's not the case, because I kind of would like to work with some Mahayana scriptures also, but let's see.

But maybe that's why he called it the 60 verses on reasoning, rather than the 60 verses. Like, what is it? Dhūgni Dhūn Chöpa is the 70 verses on emptiness.

But he called this one Rigpa Dhūn Chöpa, which is the 60 verses on reasons, or on reasoning. But reasoning for what? We don't know.

It might be all to attack other schools. But the result is the same, he's going to describe Prasangika. Okay.

So, my Dīlā, any questions?

[Speaker 2]
That's it, I'm good.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, Dīlā, so for that, meaning for that, for my job, which had that more general and more specific goals, for that, there's going to be three parts which are the same as they were for other people's texts. Front matter, text, and back matter. Okay?

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Tsongpa'i ngundro. Ngundro.

[Speaker 2]
Preparation.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, the preliminaries for the, to the composition. The preliminaries to the composition, which is chudra. Offering a praise.

Okay. Dön ne tsampar jaway shung. Ngö, the actual text, which has been composed.

By the way, he repeats the word tsongpa three times here.

[Speaker 2]
Wow.

[Speaker 1]
The verb. Preliminaries to the composition, the actual text which is composed, dön, and dedicating the virtue of having composed, dön, the text. Okay?

So, there's three tsongpas here, and you have to show the three tsongpas, and none of them are tsongpa. She's my tsongpa dealer. She gives me tsongpa to eat.

[Speaker 2]
So, it's the preparations which were composed.

[Speaker 1]
No.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, sorry.

[Speaker 1]
The preparations to composing.

[Speaker 2]
Ah, the preparations to composing.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. And then the text which is being composed, and dedicating the virtue for what was composed. By the way, I wouldn't be surprised if the second tsongpa should have been spelled without the S.

Oh, because it's present tense? You might want to check, you know, some old carving or something. Who's your author?

It's Gyatso J. Oh, yeah. Nasty.

Okay. Well, let's do a statistical vote. You know I like to do that.

[Speaker 2]
Ben, do you have the scan pulled up?

[Speaker 1]
Let's see if the future tense is the same as the past tense, or whether truly it is a carving error. Maybe the carver was looking at the third one and just repeated that for the second one. It'd be more convenient, as Geshe Tutor Injun says, it would make me more comfortable if it were spelled differently.

But, let's see. He always says, this spelling is not quite comfortable. Okay, we're going to take a statistical vote between Tsongpa Jawa future tense with an S, and Tsongpa Jawa future tense without the S.

Here we go. The search is set up. I vote for no S.

I mean, and if I lose, the text is wrong. The database. Here we go.

No S. One for me. Oh, different book.

Okay, different book. No S. Two for me.

No S. Three for me. Tell me when you want to stop.

No S. Four for me. No.

[Speaker 2]
Oh dear.

[Speaker 1]
Who is that? Tsongala. Oh, he's one of the greatest writers.

Okay. Four for me, one for him. Five for me, one for him.

Six for me, one for him. Okay. If you really care, which I don't, you can go to the verb tables at the end of tsik.

Okay. Sam, put a space after it, because otherwise you'll hit the S. Okay.

You want to say within one line. Okay. There's verb tables at the end of the tsik.

And the verb tables are also repeated for each verb entry. Anyway, we should hit it if we do this. There it is, okay?

Past tense, present tense. This is, sorry, present tense, past tense, future tense, and imperative. You should compose.

Okay? I compose. I compose de.

I will compose. Compose. Okay.

So, I'm still right. But I'm curious, you know, maybe that's how they carved it. What did you, what do you think?

We're somewhere in here.

[Speaker 2]
It's going to be right after the verses.

[Speaker 1]
I think it's up one. There we are. Nope.

It's an S in the text, in the carving. Sorry about that.

[Speaker 2]
All right.

[Speaker 1]
Let's not worry about it. So, I'm going to divide the preliminaries to the composition into three parts. Göpa-dön, dö-dön, and tsik-dön.

Okay? Number one. Meaning, what was the purpose?

So, sometimes the word göpa, which means need, should be read as the point. You know, what's the point of this preliminary section? You know, not so much as necessity.

But what was the point of it? Dö-dön, how do we summarize that opening salvo? You know?

Let's have a little summary of that first verse. And then I'm going to tell you the meaning of each word in that verse. He's really going to tear apart the opening verse.

The preliminary verse. Then he quotes it directly. And you should be, as a responsible translator, keeping an eye on the Tengyur version to make sure it matches his version.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Okay? So, you should insert the Tengyur version here.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
And compare them. If they're the same, you can wipe out the Tengyur version. If they're not the same, we have to look at it and see if the differences are important.

[Speaker 2]
Got it.

[Speaker 1]
Is it the verse right...oh. Now, we're going to attack this opening line of Nagarjuna. Is it the first verse of Nagarjuna?

[Speaker 2]
I haven't checked it against the root text.

[Speaker 1]
There was probably a bow down there first. Oh, no, this is the bow down.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. Should I find it and open it?

[Speaker 1]
I can open it for you right here. I got it right here.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
There you go. Same, I guess.

[Speaker 2]
Isn't it starting with Jampel Shinner and Jirpa?

[Speaker 1]
We covered that already.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, okay.

[Speaker 1]
Whoa. Oh. Oh, he just reversed them.

No, I'm sorry. Tenjing jungwa sungpa yi. Tenjing jungwa sungpa yi.

Sungwa yi. Okay, past tense. Past tense in the...

Past tense in the Tengyur.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Present tense in Gyaltsabje. Okay.

[Speaker 2]
The sungwa?

[Speaker 1]
This is sungpa.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Sungspa. This is present tense. The Tengyur says past tense.

Okay. Tubon de la chak tsam na. Tubon de la chak tsam na.

That's the same. So, the only difference is the past tense. Uh-huh.

I don't think it's worth a footnote.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
You know, and he may have been working with a different translation. Okay. If you can find...

Did you find the Sanskrit? No. It doesn't exist.

It doesn't exist? You're not sure.

[Speaker 2]
I also wrote to Nicole to see if she...

[Speaker 1]
You actually were trying to sleep last night.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Last night I was looking at... Shepao. Okay.

[Speaker 2]
Yep.

[Speaker 1]
Uh... So, what's the point of this first verse? Why is it here?

De la gupa ni... Rang ni yarab dangpay chepa langtumbar tenpay chir. Two purposes, okay?

There's two reasons why Nagarjuna started his book with these four lines, which is two lines in the Sanskrit, probably. Okay. First of all, rang ni yarab dangpay chepa langtumbar tenpay chir.

He wanted to indicate... So, chir means for the purpose of.

[Speaker 2]
Uh-huh.

[Speaker 1]
It's for the purpose of tenpa, indicating to us that he wants to act in accordance with tumba, the chepa, the behavior of yarab people. Yarab means good people. Oh, yarab.

Yarab. Huh. Yarab.

Okay, it's a colloquialism, you know. Yarab shivshidu. He's a good guy.

It just... In colloquial it just means good, you know. He's a good dude.

Yarab. It's a nice... It's a very nice thing to say about somebody else in the monastery.

You say... They say, how do you like this guy? He's...

He's a really good guy. So, in colloquial, he's a good guy. Here it means...

And he added the word dumpa. He wants to show that he behaves in keeping with the behavior of the holy.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Speaker 1]
The good people. And you can probably find a more literary word than good.

[Speaker 2]
Sure.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Okay. Rang ni means he himself.

He wants to show that he himself is acting in accord with the behavior of... people of integrity or... What do you call it?

Good people. What do you call it?

[Speaker 2]
Dignity?

[Speaker 1]
People of good repute. Something like that.

[Speaker 2]
High repute. Okay.

[Speaker 1]
That's the first reason he bows down to the Buddha. That's the first reason. Is that...

By the way, that could mean he's following the rules set forth by the king and the ancient translators and wise men. Or it could mean he's bowing down to like lamas and... He's just generally a good person.

When he sees a lama, he bows down. He's the kind of person who does the right thing. But we don't know which he means.

We don't know which kind of good behavior Gyaltsab is talking about.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Secondly, tenjutsombay chawa tharchin bar jawa chiro. It's for the purpose of cheer that he wants to be able to complete tharchin bar chawa, the action of composing this commentary. What's the implication?

[Speaker 2]
Is that... I thought I was saying that's... It's the part of the preliminary.

Is the pledge to compose the work?

[Speaker 1]
This is the second rationale for pledging. No, it's not pledge yet. He's bowing down.

Chudjer.

[Speaker 2]
Is that the pledge to compose the work?

[Speaker 1]
No, no, it's not the second. We're not there yet. We're on the second reason for the first part.

We're on the second reason for that prostration.

[Speaker 2]
What?

[Speaker 1]
I don't know. The second reason for the prostration. To complete a book on emptiness is going to take one god damn big amount of good karma.

You know? You want to get to the end of this book a year from now, you better do some good karma. Because otherwise you're going to get sick, you're going to get tired, you're going to meet a girl, get married, have two kids.

Not just one. But you know... No, I'm just saying, you guys are actually in a very dangerous karmic situation.

The demons are coming after you, starting now. And half of you may drop out. Okay?

So you better do some heavy good karma. What better heavy good karma than to bow down to the Buddha? You see?

Okay? So... The Garjuna is bowing down to the Buddha first because he says, I want to pile up some good karma because I'm going to start to write this book, the demons are going to come in the front door.

Got it? So... And the implication is that bowing down to a really holy person is enough good karma to finish a book on emptiness.

Yeah. Okay? Got it?

It's very beautiful. Now...

[Speaker 2]
Krishna, are we going to translate the verse?

[Speaker 1]
Oh yeah, I guess we could do that. We have to start at the end, okay? Chakrtala La Tubong Yeah, to the Lord of the Able Ones.

Now listen. Kong up here requires the... an associated day.

You know? Who is it that destroyed the extremes of things starting and stopping with his system? Buddha.

I bow down to that one. So Kong and day go together. Okay?

The Kong in the first line and the day in the fourth line are connected. Who is it that destroyed? The Buddha is destroyed and I bow down to that one.

So there has to be some kind of process of revelation here. I bow down to the one... which one?

Oh yeah! The one who destroyed the idea that anything could start or anything could stop. Okay, got it?

Now, you don't want to say it so obviously. No. But when you say, I bow down to that one, you're kind of covered.

You're kind of covered. The one who... Yeah, when you say the one who, you're covered.

Kong day. Got it? The one is day and who is Kong.

I bow down to the one who. In English, the one is day. Who is Kong.

[Speaker 2]
Got it?

[Speaker 1]
Okay. I bow down to the Lord of the Able. Now go back to the beginning.

To the one who... Pong.

[Speaker 2]
Past tense.

[Speaker 1]
Past, past, past, past tense.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, pong. You got it. Pong, past tense.

[Speaker 2]
Who...

[Speaker 1]
How did he pong with this tsun? No? With this...

Not tsun.

[Speaker 2]
In this way.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, with his system. I bow down to the one who with this system, meaning the one I'm about to tell you in my book. Who's my book?

Who's my... Who's me?

[Speaker 2]
Nagarjuna. Nagarjuna. Okay, yeah.

[Speaker 1]
This is the first verse. I bow down to the one who with this system destroyed or eliminated the idea that anything could start or stop.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, you got it. In English, you got to add the idea. He didn't destroy starting and stopping.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Well, in a way he did, but...

[Speaker 2]
I have a question about how you feel about starting and stopping.

[Speaker 1]
I feel good about it. How do you feel about it?

[Speaker 2]
In a situation where it's poetry, sometimes I think words like creation and destruction make it sound better, but...

[Speaker 1]
I like starting and stopping.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, even in poetry.

[Speaker 1]
It's what we talked about this morning, the definition of changing.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Starting and stopping instead of by itself.

[Speaker 2]
Arising and falling.

[Speaker 1]
It's just... I don't know.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, yeah, it's clear. It's much clearer.

[Speaker 1]
It's much clearer. It's okay, trust me.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Okay.

[Speaker 2]
I do.

[Speaker 1]
Karma to the person who sungwa tenching jungwa.

[Speaker 2]
Spoke dependent origination.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, and... of course, Sugeng knows tenching jungwa, means dependence, you know. I bow down to the one who spoke dependence, karma.

Oh, actually you should follow the... I bow down to the one who with this system eliminated the idea that things could start or stop calling. To the one who spoke...

to the one who said that things occur in dependence. You know, you can think... you might do it that way.

Got it? I like that way. Okay, now...

I was bragging about this book or I was, you know, wowing about this book to Veronica last night, you know. And she said, well, who wrote it? And I...

because I kept talking about the author. And I thought the word Gyaltsabje was too weird for her. So I said, well, it was Gyaltsabje.

And she said, well, who's Gyaltsabje? And I said... and I told her my favorite story about Gyaltsabje, which I'm going to tell you.

But I'll try to make it quick. You know this story. Anybody doesn't know this story?

Okay, well... Give me the days for Gyaltsabje. Look it up in Cat.

I believe he was older than Tsongkhapa.

[Speaker 2]
And he was his... I looked him up. He's like five years older.

[Speaker 1]
I trust the word on me. Who's six years younger? Gyaltsabje.

He's like just six years younger. All right, let's go look it up.

[Speaker 2]
I got it. I'm looking. I looked it up, too.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, is he just six years younger?

[Speaker 2]
Probably.

[Speaker 1]
I'm looking it up. Not that I don't trust you guys. Five and a half.

[Speaker 2]
There. Born... Sorry.

[Speaker 1]
Born in 1364. He was born only seven years after Tsongkhapa. They're basically the same age.

So it's very unusual that... Yeah. And he died 15 years after Tsongkhapa.

So basically they were about the same age. So Gyaltsabje was already famous before he met Tsongkhapa. And he was known as a brilliant logician.

Gyaltsabje. His main disciple. His number one disciple.

By the way, when Tsongkhapa was passing away, on his deathbed at Ganden, he took his hat off and like a frisbee, he threw it to Gyaltsabje. He said, get it? You know?

It means you're the throne holder. He took his hat off and he went... It's in the painting in that book.

In that book it's in the painting. I thought they were arguing who was going to be Gyaltsabje. There was some tension but he threw his hat to Gyaltsabje.

That's after they argued before they argued. Who argued? The two disciples.

I don't remember. So anyway, I'll tell you really quick the story. So Tsongkhapa came from East Tibet.

And he had a very big nose. And at this point Veronica said, strong nose like me. And he said, yeah.

Just like you. Very similar. And then he came to the middle of Tibet, which is where all the philosophy was going on.

Because he wanted to learn more. He came when he was 19 or something. So anyway, he came.

He reached Lhasa. And he started to get a reputation as a great teacher. And he kept getting teachings.

And then Gyaltsabje heard about it and he got jealous. And he said, I'm going to go... I heard his teaching tonight.

I'm going to go there and show people who's better. And I'm going to blow up the teaching. I'm going to disrupt this teaching.

So he started to walk down the road to find this temple. And he got off the road and he got lost. And he's walking across the cow fields.

Pasture. And then he's getting really confused. It's starting to get dark.

And he's like, I've got to find out where this temple is. And then he saw like a 16-year-old lady. Cow herd.

Dirty, skinny, dirty hair. You know, taking care of cows. Eating grass.

And he went to her and he said, do you know where this temple is? And she said, well, why do you want to go to the temple? And she said, well, the big nose from the east is going to give a teaching.

And she said, oh, well, who are you? And he said, I'm Gyaltsabje. And then she's like, oh, wait, I've got to take my glasses off.

Gyaltsabje. The great Lajasin. Yes, that's me.

Every famous man can get corrupted by a young lady. He's like, yes, that's me. And she's like, oh, I always wanted to meet you.

And he's like, oh, yes, everyone does. And so she's like, gee, I've always been interested in logic. And he's like, oh, yeah.

And then she said, would you have time to just clear up something for me? And he's like, yes, I can clear up anything, especially for someone who's really interested. And she's like, I have a logic question.

And he said, OK, what's the question? She said, look at that cow right now. He's taking a poop.

He's like, what? She said, look, the cow raised their tail, and the poop come out and go poof. And she said, I have a logic question.

When the poop come up, the top of the poop is here. But when it go down, the top of the poop is at the bottom. Which is the top of the poop, or which is the bottom of the poop?

Then this is a logic question for you. Then he's like, he's all confused. He's like, I don't know.

Then he starts to go crazy. He's like, he lost it. He couldn't say anything.

And then finally he's like, and then suddenly she turned into Vajrayogini. And she's shining in light. And she's like, I don't know who's Big Nose from the East, but if you want to meet Tsongkhapa, the king of the Dharma, the shining glory, the god of the whole world of philosophy, then she goes like this.

And this incense goes in her hand. And she says, he's over there. And then she disappears.

So he's like, whoa. But his pride came back. He said, I'm still going to go interrupt this teaching.

And it's supposed to be when you go into teaching, when you take off your panchen hat, mama's hat. So he said, OK, I'm going to go into teaching. And when I get in, I won't take my hat off.

And everybody will know I'm better than him. Then Ngawang Dapa, he can read his mind. And he sees he's coming from across the grass.

So he's reading his mind. He says, oh my gosh, he's going to refuse to take his hat off. Bad karma.

So he climbed up to the roof. And he got some string and a fishhook. And he waited for him.

Then he came under the door. He goes, whoosh. And the hat came off.

And then Gyatsobje catched the hat. And then all the people heard him in the door. And they go to look.

And they say, oh look, even Gyatsobje take his hat off for Tsongkhapa. Tsongkhapa must be great. Then Gyatsobje is like, damn.

And everybody thinks I respect him. Then he said, I know. I will go sit on the teaching throne with him.

Which is totally illegal. Big illegal. I will go sit next to him.

So Tsongkhapa is teaching. I think it was logic. Tsongkhapa is teaching.

And then Gyatsobje come up and sit there on the throne. Completely improper. Bad manners.

Then he's like, listening to him.

[Speaker 2]
Then he's like, wow. Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Oh, wow. I never thought of that.

Then he start to realize Tsongkhapa is unbelievable. So he little bit go like this. Then he's like, he got off the seat.

He sit on the stage. Then he said, no, no, no. He got down on the ground.

And then finally he's like dying. Then he said, let me stay with you until I die. Please let me stay with you until I die.

He said, okay. So anyway, that's the story. Why are we talking about that?

He was a very big arguer. Gyatsobje. He liked to argue with other schools.

So, like for example with the Sakyas. He's famous. Rongchen.

Very famous Sakya scholar. Big scholar. Wrote 18 volumes.

He wrote 18 volumes on the perfection of wisdom. Rongchen. After he debated with Gyatsobje, Gyatsobje said, you know what your problem is?

THEG PA CHEN PO'I CHUNG LA NGAL BA MI BYAS PA'I KHYUN YIN You haven't really tried very hard to understand the perfection of wisdom. He wrote 18 volumes. Which are famous.

And he said, THEG PA CHEN PO'I CHUNG LA NGAL BA MI BYAS PA Your problem is you haven't really tried very hard to understand the perfection of wisdom. So anyway, he was a little bit critical person. Why am I saying that?

He's about to criticize a couple of people of his time. And we don't know much about these people. Maybe you can go digging.

Okay. The first place to dig is... TBRC is a good place.

Because Gene Smith... Gene Smith was the greatest scholar of all the Tibetan schools in the world. Better than any Tibetan.

And... So he started TBRC. So what the work he did in there is really, really unbelievable.

But other people...he died. Other people have been working on it. And then some of the later work is not the same quality.

Although they are very sincere people and good people. So they are trying really hard. But...

So I don't buy everything in there. I check it and then I go confirm it. Where?

In the database. Which where? In the reference text.

In the reference section. So I always go check what they say. Because sometimes the years are wrong.

Sometimes the spellings are wrong. Anyway, Patsap is a part of Tibet. He's talking about...

You can find a Patsap who wrote a commentary on the works of Nagarjuna. Okay, so I'll give you a clue. You can go dig.

And he said... Okay, this Patsap said... Shell name means...

Shell is the honorific form for face. And I usually translate it as from his holy lips. Because the holy face we don't say so much.

So... It means he respects him. Now, whether he agrees with him is a different question.

BHAGPA YAB SE...

[Speaker 2]
The Arya and his son?

[Speaker 1]
The Arya, father and son. ZA or son. With Tsongkhapa and his disciples, this YAB SE means father and two sons.

With Nagarjuna, it's...

[Speaker 2]
Oh, father and son.

[Speaker 1]
Who's the one son?

[Speaker 2]
Chandrakirti or Aryadeva?

[Speaker 1]
Aryadeva. Okay, so when we say father and son... Arya, but we're talking about Arya Nagarjuna, and not Arya Tsongkhapa.

We're talking about... We're talking about Nagarjuna and Aryadeva. Aryadeva's most famous book.

Four hundred verses. Four hundred verses on him to the Shakyapa. Okay?

Chatur Shataka. Okay. BHAGPA YAB SE CHUD RGYUR LA BSGOS PA MI ZHES TE ZHES here means...

[Speaker 2]
Open. Accept.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, good. With an A, it means open. Without an A, it means to accept.

Accept a position. He doesn't agree that there's any BSGOS PA to the children.

[Speaker 2]
That there's no... That there's not a purpose for the... Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Why should Nagarjuna and Aryadeva... What's in it for them? Why should they have to bow down to anybody?

That's his position. Patsap. Okay?

So, we're discussing... Don't forget the subject of discussion here is why did Nagarjuna bow down to the Buddha? Okay?

And Patsap says there wasn't any special reason. He doesn't need to. Nagarjuna and his spiritual son Aryadeva, they have no need to bow down to anybody because...

BSGOS PA RGA' ZHIG LA DMIGS NAS This DMIGS is a verb. Yeah. Focus.

Yeah. Focusing on some number of... RGA' ZHIG BSGOS PA Needs.

Needs. Okay? LO YUL DU BYAS NAS CHOS BYED PA MA YIN They did not...

He did not write this verse because in his mind he was focusing on some specific goals he had to reach. Okay? He did not bow down to the Buddha because LO YUL DU BYAS because in his mind he took it as an object that he had certain goals to be achieved through the prostration.

Meaning he disagrees with the two goals we just expressed. Yeah, yeah. What were they?

Collect good karma. Yeah. Yeah.

To collect enough good karma to finish the book and...

[Speaker 2]
He wants to act in accordance with...

[Speaker 1]
To show he's an honorable man. Honorable.

[Speaker 2]
Honorable.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, okay. Okay? He wants to show he's an honorable person and he wants to collect enough good karma to finish the book.

Patsap disagrees with Gyaltsabje. No, no, no. Listen.

Nagarjuna and his spiritual son Ayodhya they didn't do this prostration with one, two, three, four ideas about what they wanted to reach or something like that. They didn't have those needs. They don't have needs like that.

That's Patsap's position. Got it? LO YUL DU BYAS means they didn't bring those goals to mind.

UNAJI SHENA Well, if you ask Patsap, and he's a certain Patsap and I don't remember. You'll have to figure it out. So, Mr. Patsap, well then why?

JI SHEN UNA, UNA means well then. JI SHEN Why did he prostrate? What's your version?

YUL KHYAD PAR CHEN LA To an extraordinary object of virtue, like an extraordinary karmic object, okay? He had DEPA THAKPO.

[Speaker 2]
He had great faith.

[Speaker 1]
THAKPO means more than that. Fierce. Fierce.

This is the word for deities that go like this. But with faith it means you know, like strong, fierce. In English you say fierce love or fierce faith, or very strong.

It means very strong. DEPA THAKPO KYE NA Okay? He's suddenly God.

In English we say God, we don't say he developed fierce faith. He's suddenly overcome by fierce feelings of faith. Intense, you can say.

Intense feelings of faith. And DEPA KASHOR means just spontaneously, without thinking.

[Speaker 2]
CHAG DZE He threw himself on the floor.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, who? Yeah, okay. He's just overtaken by a fit of faith and he fell down.

He wasn't planning. He didn't have this goal, this goal, this goal in mind. I'll teach you a TAMPE.

GALPU KASHOR GALPU KASHOR Very famous. GALPU is king. And KASHOR means he slipped.

He slipped. KASHOR means, he said, okay, to whom, Jigme?

[Speaker 2]
Who are you talking about?

[Speaker 1]
Famous, famous. What's the most famous slip that a king ever made answering someone's request?

[Speaker 2]
Do whatever you want. Oh, when he was asking about...

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, yeah, tell the story. Do you know the story?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, when... Who was it? Jadava was...

[Speaker 1]
No, no, that's a different one.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, that was a slip too.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, no, this one is in Nepal and a nun came to the king and said, can I build a stupa? Can you give me the land to build a stupa? Because she didn't have any money.

And the king said, no. And she said, hmm. She said, well, will you give me the amount of land that I can circumscribe with the skin of a cow?

With a cow's skin, that much land will you give me? He said, any land you can circumscribe, you can cover with the skin of a cow, I will give you. So she took a very fine razor blade and she made a string like a mile long from one cow's skin and she made a circle and she said, okay, I'm taking this land.

It's like a couple of acres. Maybe we can do it in Sedona. And she got to keep it.

And that's where that stupa is. With the Buddha eyes in Nepal. They say, yeah.

Yeah. Burma. I believe that's the stupa.

Yeah, that's the stupa. But gyabho karsho means it slipped out of his mouth. Anything you can cover, it's okay.

And he couldn't go back. So like, if I was with Khen Rinpoche and I said, I don't know, can I go listen to rock and roll music at the London Met tomorrow? And he say, yes.

And then he say, what? I say, I say, gyabho karsho. You know, you promised.

Okay? It's like, you promised. So I've never seen it in a scripture.

But here it is. Okay, long story. So it just means slipped.

It kind of... He wasn't planning it. He didn't have any specific goals in mind.

He just so loved the Buddha, he's like, oh, I got to bow down. Dzeypa yin te. Perna.

Or gyabho. Good. Den den ga shik.

Some people with a lot of faith. Den den ga shik. Gopala tok chen mi chepa.

Without examining what their needs are. So tok chen, I can give you a one hour explanation on it. It comes from Abhidharma.

We're going to cover it. Tok chen chupa tsing ship nyi. That's the quotation.

Very beautiful. It relates to meditation. We're not going to talk about it.

When we get there, we'll talk about it. Here it means, without like, delving into any particular need. Mi chepar gang du kyang dro tul chung du jungwa shin.

They just say, you know, kyun ni lama, kyun ni yidam, kyun ni, you know.

[Speaker 2]
They go for refuge.

[Speaker 1]
No. Please, I believe in you. Take care of me.

You know, they go for refuge. They don't think about, oh, the Buddha's emptiness. They just suddenly feel, oh, please help me.

Okay? So he gave an example. In this case, Nagarjuna makes a prostration.

Just, boom. He didn't think about it. He didn't make a plan.

He just had so much faith in the Buddha, he's like, oh, okay. Like people who have a lot of faith in the lama and say, please protect me. They don't think, oh, but you know, this is the reason.

Okay, got it? She sung kye. The kye, which means language, implies, that's what he says.

Okay? That's his story.

[Speaker 2]
Okay?

[Speaker 1]
Whose story?

[Speaker 2]
Arya Nagarjuna, I'm guessing. I don't know. That's what Jay is saying, that it's the guy from...

[Speaker 1]
Batsap. Yeah. That's what Batsap says.

Okay? So he's finished with Batsap. Okay?

[Speaker 2]
I didn't quite understand the last part of that sentence. It was for example.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, I'm sorry. I should, I should do the whole thing. DGOS PA LA, any specific goal in mind.

RTOGS CHOS MI BYAS PA They don't examine. They don't go through the reasoning. RTOGS PA CHOS, as together, means examine.

They don't go through any particular process of reasoning. GANG DU BSKYAMS RO They just take refuge in somebody. THUL BYUNG means, THUL BYUNG means spontaneously.

Like just hop takala. You want to learn it to that medium? It's colloquial.

It means just boom, just happened. Hop takala shows that the thing fell down. Hop takala.

The statue fell down. What happened? I don't know.

Just hop takala. It just boom. It just happened.

So THUL BYUNG means that. Just happened. Suddenly happened.

Okay? THUL BYUNG. THUL BYUNG BA BZHIN That's the end of his sentence.

Patsap. It's like when someone just spontaneously decides to ask someone, please help me. Some lama.

Okay? Without any, without any listing in their mind of the goals they have. It's just a spontaneous emotional reaction.

You could say emotional reaction here somewhere.

[Speaker 2]
Okay. Okay.

[Speaker 1]
That's the idea. It's an emotional reaction. He doesn't have those two goals in mind.

What were the two goals? Trying to show he's a good man. Yeah.

Trying to show he's respectable. And to get enough karma to finish the book. And to get enough karma to finish the book.

Okay. He didn't have those two goals. TZANG BA SA BUD NA RE Does anybody have a carving?

[Speaker 2]
Here. Yeah, we have one.

[Speaker 1]
Can you blow that part up? There's Patsap. So it must be after that.

Let's see what part I want to blow up. Oh, here it is. Can you blow this up?

Yeah, it's correct. Okay. Okay, I never heard of this person.

Okay? Which doesn't prove anything. TZANG BA SA And you can go looking for him.

[Speaker 2]
Okay?

[Speaker 1]
Probably he was a philosopher who was fairly well known in Gyaltsabje's time. And due to his weak viewpoints, he's now unknown. TZANG BA means...

TZANG BA is the area north of Tibet. It's the province north of Tibet.

[Speaker 2]
So...

[Speaker 1]
Geshe Thubten Rinchen is in TZANG BA, for example. I believe it's north of Lhasa. Yeah.

Lhasa itself is in Utsang. As U. And then TZANG is TZANG.

Utsang means... Utsang is the name of those two provinces together. And I like TZANG.

But the interesting thing about TZANG BA people is their language... their accent is perfect. If you can find a TZANG BA person to study with, like Geshe Thubten Rinchen, his accent is absolutely perfect.

So you can understand everything very easily. He don't talk like that yet. Okay?

He talks like that and you can understand everything exactly what he is saying. Okay. And I was his translator, so I was happy.

Before that I tried to translate for a lama from East Tibet and he was like...

[Speaker 2]
I'm like...

[Speaker 1]
And then he got angry at me. He's like... I was teaching in a class...

He was teaching in a class and I was like... He said, What is wrong with you? I'm like...

I said, I didn't understand a single word he said. Then he got really angry. Then there was a monk from TZANG there.

He translated from him to him and I translated from him to him.

[Speaker 2]
Everything was happy. Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Okay. DE LTAR DGOS PA MI SHES TE He also says, there is no such need as such as the two purposes that you have.

He also does not accept the purposes which you have stated. Okay. Which I just stated.

SHES NA And Tsangpa Saba says, Saba from Tsangpa also says, and if you did accept that Nagarjuna had those two purposes in mind. Okay. Then he gives an andradian statement.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
He goes to logic. He goes into logic form. No, Tsangpa Saba says, if you're going to tell me there's these two goals.

Okay. And I don't accept it. And even if I were to accept it, there's some problems here.

So, SHES NA means, if I were to accept it, there's some problems. Okay. What are the problems?

Then he goes into a logical statement. Papa Yobse Chö Chö.

[Speaker 2]
Consider the Arya in his spiritual song.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Now he goes to a telnya. Sarcastic.

So the first tel is up or down? Down. He goes down.

Khansa Damba Mayimba Tha. Mayimba Tha.

[Speaker 2]
They're not holy people.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, so I guess they're not good people. I guess Nagarjuna and Ayadeva are not very holy.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
It's like that. You go like this. Oh, so I guess Nagarjuna and I, they were not very special people.

And then what's the response from Gyaltsabje? Cheechoo! Why did you say that?

Oh, because... Gup-pe-len-la-re-wa-don-che-be-chir. Oh, because they're hoping for some kind of thing for themselves out of this prostration.

The prostration is not religious. It's a business. I'll trade your prostration for something I want.

Okay, like he criticizes Gyaltsabje. He says, come on, they're not like doing prostration business, you know. Len-la-re-wa means they're hoping for something back.

[Speaker 2]
They're hoping for some return.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, they're hoping for some return consisting of gup-pe, of something they're looking for. Okay, gup-pe-len-la-re-wa-don-che-be-chir. They're not Tsong-pa-shin.

[Speaker 2]
For example, Tsongkapa's...

[Speaker 1]
No, not Tsong.

[Speaker 2]
Tsong. Tsong.

[Speaker 1]
Tsongkhan?

[Speaker 2]
Tsongkhan? Yeah, the store.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, they're just a businessman, right? They're Dharma businessmen. Why?

They only prostrate if they can get something. Okay, come on, these guys are holy. Okay, they don't need to prostrate for something.

They're prostrating because it's holy. They're not trying to get anything. They don't care what people think they're a nice person.

And they're not trying to make karma. They just prostrate because Buddha is holy, you know. You should prostrate.

[Speaker 2]
Got it? But what they're actually saying in the words is that, for example, they're like a businessman, so they're like... It's just like going to a store.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, if it was... Yeah, it's a conditional statement. By the way, how many parts does a logical statement normally have?

Three? But sometimes four. Four.

Example.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
drac chen mi tak de chepay chir per na The example. om shin, om nang shin. Take sound, it's changing because it was created by causes.

It's like the om. Or anything, anything that's changing. Okay.

So, it's very common at the end to give a per na statement. For example, it's like blah blah blah. Here his example is...

So, he's got a full tilngir here. Take...what's the example?

[Speaker 2]
Consider the Aryan spiritual son.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
They aren't holy.

[Speaker 1]
Now, this is not called a quality to be proven. This is called a quality that we're accusing them of. Okay, so there's a different word.

It's called a selwa. The thing which we actually are trying to eliminate. Okay.

So, are you telling me that they're not good people? Why do you say that? Because they're just prostrating because they want something.

Why do you say that? Well, they're like business people. Okay, got it?

Okay, so it's a tilngir. So much in shame.

[Speaker 2]
Is that shame just like a gain?

[Speaker 1]
You always end the per na statement with shin.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, okay.

[Speaker 1]
For example, it would be like a businessman. They would be like a businessman. She kor sum ke lang.

So, I'm getting lost a little bit by this point. But I think he's saying... He's saying to us, kor di kor sum.

Kor di kor sum.