Медитации на пустоту: объяснение шагов к пониманию того, что ничто не является самим собой, занятие 38

[Speaker 1]
TAKI CHEN YEN GYI PASANAM GYI DROLA PHEN CHIR SANGYE DRUPAR SHOK CHEN DANG TSOK GYI CHOK NAM DRAM CHUG PAR DU DAG NI DRABSU CHI TAKI CHEN YEN GYI PASANAM GYI DROLA PHEN CHIR SANGYE DRUPAR SHOK SHOKI SHMOGI Ah, you are all late. Good morning. OK, welcome to the term.

I'm sorry this orientation took place during our first class. It's kind of strange. I wish I'd known about it.

But OK, I'd like to welcome Inna from France and Ukraine. She's here on the item thing. No, she's here on herself.

OK, good. And we're hoping that she will work to translate the books that we translate from English into French and Russian. At least Russian.

And Ukrainian. Are you good in Ukrainian?

[Speaker 2]
OK, good.

[Speaker 1]
Like, perfect? Good. OK, well that'll be cool.

And I'd like to welcome Vivian Wong, who's in charge of our Guangzhou DCI team. And she's the one who took me to China for the first time. She came to Hong Kong and tied me up.

And we wouldn't have anything going in China without her, so I'd like to thank her. And she's on the board of Diamond Mountain. And a lot of the success of Diamond Mountain is because of her.

So I'd like to thank her. And she'll be having an earphone after today, but apparently something went wrong today.

[Speaker 2]
OK. All right.

[Speaker 1]
Uh, OK. So, and I think it's good if we have as many people as we can, like Inna and Vivian, because what we do here is amazing. And I think it affects how you teach DCI, or how you teach ACI, or how you do retreats.

And it's, I don't know, for my life, to be thinking about these texts all day has changed my whole life. Like how I just do my work every day, how I relate to people. All these texts are floating around in my head all the time.

And it's incredible. It's amazing. So if you can come as much as you can, you're very welcome to come.

You will hear, you know, you'll remember strange things at strange times. And it will help your life. And then that's what we want to do.

And I'd like to thank Christina Kasica and the other Christine in the Vimala, because they've been working very hard on the Sanskrit texts in Nepal. And Mongolia has about, I don't know, 200,000 texts? 600,000 types.

Yeah, and they did... 200,000 to 600,000. Yeah, and they reopened Mongolia all on their own.

I wasn't involved with it. They raised the money, a million dollars, and over a million dollars. And I'd like to thank you.

So you'll have plenty of books to translate. Okay. It's so cool that a translation group, I mean, someone who's very interested in translating, gave you money, right?

I mean, you can rejoice about that. Another translation group basically gave us the money because they liked our work. Yeah, so...

Just Kinten Rinpoche's group.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, they were impressed with our work.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, so... Before we started each text, I thought I would do a progress report on how we're doing on each text. And then maybe we could collate those together in the next day or two.

When I sell the translation program downstairs, I'd like to mention it. I'd like to say when each person is predicted to finish. Some of these texts are long-term.

Some of these texts will take 20 years. Utpala's text. Here's the progress report.

You're actually probably going to be the first text done, I think. Uh... You know, once I looked at everything, you're pretty...

I think you're going to be the first text done. So there's her progress report. I guess we're supposed to speed up, but I don't know.

But these things take... You know, it takes 10 years, 15 years to finish a book. And you have to choose wisely because...

you know, it may be the only book you're ever translating in life. So, you know, you have to choose very carefully what text you choose. Okay.

Yeah, we've done pretty good. Not bad. All right.

So here we go. We're in the middle of the... This is turning out to be kind of like a Siddhanta text.

And we're just getting different people's ideas about emptiness. Okay, so we've finished the lower schools. Now we're on to the middle-way schools' idea of emptiness.

We reached the independent groups' lower middle-ways presentation of emptiness. And here we go. Yeah, we're on a reasoning called ciktadel, which is, things are neither one nor many.

Okay. What's the most famous thing about the name ciktadel? It's a mistake.

Yeah, people misspell it, and they make it to a locative, okay? T-U instead of D-U. Which stands for?

Duma.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
All right, here we go. Duma.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Do you want to take a shot? Let's go back and find the druk, by the way. Well, one way to do it is this.

Oops. Oh, it isn't here, I guess. I guess they didn't mention the druk anyway.

Okay. What they're talking about is six. What's the sixth?

Can you guess? What's the sixth here? I think it's going to be...

They're talking about molecules, okay? So a molecule would have six atoms. And there'd be a one here, and then there'd be one, two, three, four, five, six.

Okay? I'm thinking that that's probably what he means. It could have been a version of the six elements, like in the Abhidharma, you've got to have a certain number of elements in a molecule.

So let's leave it for right now. I think they're talking about spatially. Four directions up and down.

Okay. So, druk chen chik means one atom in a molecule, okay? Should be surrounded, core, by six other atoms, okay?

And at that point, sena, at that time, the eastern particle, which in this room would be something like over here, okay? Does it touch the middle particle, u? This u means middle.

Does it touch the middle particle or not? Okay, so you have six particles in a molecule. And, you know, it's the same in science.

Ngu means the face of a thing, right? Like this is the face of the TV, okay? And they're talking about the face of the center particle and the face of the eastern particle, okay?

Ngu la der nuk du kyi re kam At the point of contact between the eastern particle and the center particle, is the western particle touching that point? Is this one touching this one, okay? And you'd say, automatically, cannot, right?

Here's the middle particle. The western particle's over here, and they make contact over here. And then the eastern particle's over here, and they make contact over here.

So the point of contact between the eastern particle and the middle particle cannot be the same place as the point of contact, translate this, between the—I'm just kidding. Between the western particle and the—it cannot be the same place, okay? Right?

Then it's a debate. Does it touch or not? Does the western particle make contact with the point of contact between the central particle and the eastern particle, or not?

And you'd say, automatically, cannot. Okay, okay. Or there'd be no middle particle.

Okay. Rek na, if it does touch, ud de ud du, central particle, kosar is an important word, meaning the place it occupies. Okay?

And it's difficult. It's a difficult word. Kosar, okay?

Kosar. Say kosar. It means that point in space that it occupies.

So the kosar—it can also mean, in colloquial Tibetan, a position in the government. You know, he's a kosar tobo. He has a high position.

Okay, something like that. Kosar na, shardun yuwa thang. So, are you saying that the eastern particle occupies the space that the central particle occupies, because it's contacting the western particle?

[Speaker 2]
Okay?

[Speaker 1]
If the western particle— if some part of the western particle touches where the eastern particle and the central particle meet, okay, then in the position where the central particle's standing, there must be the western particle also, because it's making contact with the eastern particle. Okay? You okay?

Just nod. I get that. Is he just saying that it is the eastern particle?

Yeah, no. Kosar na yuwa. It must be standing in that location.

Why? dam ja tepe ye che. Well, you said it was touching the western particle.

Okay? You said it was touching, okay? Then, yeah, yeah, it's in the position of the central particle.

The western particle is in the position of the central particle. I agree, which is crazy, right? Then we say, der tu ten shen nga ya ta.

Then the other five particles must be in the middle position also.

[Speaker 2]
Okay?

[Speaker 1]
ya ta, tepe ye che. You agreed, okay? You agreed that one of the six was parking in the middle particle's place.

So then all the six are parking in the middle particle's place. Okay? All right.

tepe ye che. der na? der ten chik tsam sak kyang kom bu chenp.

kom bu means in colloquial Tibetan, and you see it like in the Lama Chodpo where the sashi of lapis lazuli has no kombus of dirt on it. It means a clog. A clump of dirt.

Okay? So kombu means a clump. Like a clump of dirt or, you know, I don't know.

My dog brought some clumps in on his back end the other day and sat on my lap.

[Speaker 2]
That's a kombu.

[Speaker 1]
The dog I babysit. I don't have a dog. Okay.

chenpo. So how... Then, if the atoms occupy the same space, then if you put a thousand together, how big does it get?

It'll still be as big as one atom. You see? If you accumulate clumps of them, then they'll still just occupy one atom's space.

Okay? Then you can't build things. You can't build tables, and buildings, and people.

chenpo. You're... misik.

Impossible. Totally impossible. misik thalo.

Then the low kind of indicates what?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Give me a break, you know. I don't want to listen to you anymore. So thalo.

Okay? By the way, you know, you're totally lost. Don't worry about it.

It's all sinking in. No, it's just... Just open your mind and listen.

Don't try to remember everything.

[Speaker 2]
Okay?

[Speaker 1]
Just listen. We just proved modern science is wrong.

[Speaker 2]
Okay? Really.

[Speaker 1]
Really. Things are not coming from elements and atoms. Things are coming from seeds in your mind.

That proves it already. That, you know, in the first ten minutes of SCIM academic session seven, we proved the whole world's idea is wrong. Okay?

And that's a small thing. ma rek na. Okay?

If the western particle doesn't touch the border between the middle particle and the eastern particle.

[Speaker 2]
Okay?

[Speaker 1]
All right? u du de la shar du kyi rek ma rek kyi chay nyi. Then the central particle must have two parts.

The part that's touching the eastern particle and the part that's touching the western particle. Okay? If this particle's point of contact with the middle particle doesn't touch the point of contact with that particle's point of contact with the middle particle, then the middle particle must have a left side and a right side.

[Speaker 2]
Okay?

[Speaker 1]
Got it? du kyi rek ma rek kyi chay nyi. There must be two parts to the middle particle.

Point of contact with the western and point of no contact with the western. Okay? ya thang.

Why? de la shar du kyi rek ching nup du kyi ma rek pey cha shi yu pey che Because there is a section, cha. There is a section of the middle particle which is making contact with the eastern particle but is not making contact with the western particle.

Okay?

[Speaker 2]
Got it?

[Speaker 1]
And that means it's... an atom is not the smallest thing. It's not a thumb.

It is thumb. Thumb means divisible in ancient Latin and Sanskrit. Greek.

So, a thumb. It must not be indivisible. It must be divisible.

There must be a left side and a right side. du na cha che su du po Well, if you agree, then the atom must have parts. Okay?

cha che means has parts. Okay? By the way, I'll ask you a question.

The original argument is, you know, things can't exist because they neither exist as one thing nor they exist as many things. Now, he split the reason into two pieces. The reason was what?

They are neither one thing nor are they two things. More than one. They are neither one.

Things don't exist the way you think. Why? Because they're not one thing and they're not more than one thing.

Which one is he disproving with this argument? Because he split the reason into two.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
We're on the one thing. We're on the first part of the famous reason. Things aren't one.

Ah, you can say that. But, chik dang du ma chik dang du ma ka nu du ma du pay che chik dang du ma ka nu du ma du pay che We're on the chik. They don't exist as one.

Things don't exist as one.

[Speaker 2]
When we learned this originally, we did it with two particles instead of, you know, six and then one in the middle. I mean, it seems very complicated. Is there some reason why we're doing this?

[Speaker 1]
I think he's trying to do space. He's trying directions. Okay.

And maybe it's because he wants to lead up to... He's going to, I believe your text, he's going to go through parts to physical things, mental things. Then he's going to go to unchanging things, which includes space and emptiness.

And I think he's setting you up for space.

[Speaker 2]
Okay. Later. Okay, cool.

So, yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Is it assuming it's the traditional presentation of an arrow, like in a six-part circle? It could be Stanley's Abhidharma presentation. But I'd be surprised if he threw it into a Ranggupa presentation.

Okay. Because that particular Abhidharma view is not held by other schools. Okay.

Hmm. Unless they want to pick on somebody.

[Speaker 2]
Okay. Which we are doing. Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Do not touch it. So he has lung or vik?

[Speaker 2]
He has vik.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. He has proved logically the idea wrong. Now he's going to lung, which means...

Scriptural authority. If you don't believe my logic, here's a sacred book.

[Speaker 2]
Here's a scripture that says the same thing.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, please read.

[Speaker 2]
Okay. You want to...

[Speaker 1]
No, you're fine. Do you want to go at that? Do you want to try?

Oh, by the way, let me introduce Nishupara. Nishupara is a famous... It's his book.

[Speaker 2]
Asanga. Sorry.

[Speaker 1]
Twenty verses. This is a famous Mind-Only text, I believe. So, you know, he's throwing out a Mind-Only text.

But that's okay.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
The twenty verses of Asanga. Some of those short texts are crucial to the Mind-Only school. They are all the Mind-Only school really has.

Except for Sutra of Kong. What I really meant. Two key...

Chikchar. Char means joined together, stuck together.

[Speaker 2]
Like...

[Speaker 1]
Chikchar, all at once, all together. All together. If the six stick together.

[Speaker 2]
Okay. Stick together.

[Speaker 1]
Then... Then the... Then the Charabdul, which means smallest particle, has...

Druk... Char... The smallest part...

He's making a pun. Has six... Then the most minute particle has six minute parts.

He's making a joke. Okay. The most minute particle has six minute parts, right?

It's a joke, because minute means doesn't have part. Okay. All right.

Okay. So the first problem is, if six are stuck together, then the one in the middle, for example, has six different sides that are making contact with six different atoms. Got it?

But... Drupal Thakhya Kosachikna. Kosachikna.

So the first half of this verse, it's relating to the six in different positions. Okay? And the second half of the verse is relating to the six in one position.

[Speaker 2]
Okay?

[Speaker 1]
But if it's the first case that we talked about, if all six particles are existing in the place where the middle particle exists, well then, kombu is only... Some here means just the size of. Some here means just the size of.

So what's it mean? Yeah, then when you make a molecule, or you put a thousand atoms together, it's going to be the size of a single atom. You choose.

What do you want? You know? Your partless atom.

You know? Your partless thing. Give me a break.

Okay? Got it? This is a real tenger, right?

He says, Oh, so your partless particle has parts. Or you can't make things out of it. Which one was it?

Okay, got it? He's being... This is prasangika.

This is higher middle ways favorite system. Oh, this Japanese restaurant is the best one around. Oh, so the rice wasn't soggy.

Or was it that the guy made it within an hour? Okay? Got it?

Now, there's a rule in this class. If you don't understand anything, just go. Radhika says I shouldn't say that because it's sarcastic.

[Speaker 2]
Wow. You're not going to have a lot to say.

[Speaker 1]
Gesu merikpao. Okay? That's the logic.

That's the logic. According to... This is a nasty mistake.

And Ben did a great thing. I bow down. I don't know how you did it.

I hope you used words comparison utility. He compared our bad input of Choney Lama to a new input of Choney Lama. And he made very cogent notes for me, which rescued me in a few places.

So if you guys can do that, those of you especially who have Choney Lama books, they were all burned when the monastery was bombed. All the copies were burned. Then we found one copy in Beijing.

And it was a Xerox of a bad copy. And we did the best we could. So that's what you have.

Now it's pretty common. You can find it in many places. There's...

I hope there's copies in Mongolia. We found a copy in St. Petersburg.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Anyway, it would be... If you have a Choney Lama text, talk to him. You know, just learn how to compare it.

And then show me the differences. Because it may be important.

[Speaker 2]
Okay?

[Speaker 1]
All right. And I went to the 20... It is in the Mind-Only School section of the Tengger.

Okay? And I think it's actually one of the most famous Mind-Only texts. It's very popular in China.

It's one of the only... Only... You know, I've been digging and digging.

75 books made it to China. It's not 900 and something. It's 900 classicals.

75 books are the basis of Chinese Buddhism. Tibet had 300... 3,700.

Okay. So, you know, this is the one that became a very big foundation of Chinese Buddhism. So it's important in China.

And as I recall, it's pretty correct. Okay. The reading is...

The reading, you can't do much to this reading. Okay? It's just pretty mechanical.

You can't mess it up much. They didn't mess it up. Okay?

Thank goodness. Don't forget they're writing in a monastery where they might not have a copy of the Tengger. You know, there was no Tengger when I got to Sera.

I bought it. So, you know. Okay.

All right. Here we go. Please read.

... He started with physical matter, and now he's going on to... ...

Yeah. So anyone who'd finished DCI Novel Scholar knows that there's three kinds of changing things in the universe, which are... Physical, mental, and the things in between.

Like inner is between, and mental seeds is between. And he's going to give one other example. Okay.

Here we go. DEM NID DU BYAS So... By the way, I believe the DEN MIN is SUG DEN MA YIN and SEM DEN MA YIN DEN MIN SUG Yeah, yeah.

Now, it's... The first one relates to SUG, and the second one relates to mind. You see, it doesn't have form, and it's not mind.

So it's called a not, not, not. Not have nar. It doesn't have form, and it's not mind.

And it's always important to say, but it does exist, and it changes. You have to add that. Okay.

DU BYAS LA CHA ME Partless, no parts. MI SRID Not impossible. Even those middle kinds of changing things, people, mental seeds, is what we talk about in DCI.

Those things cannot exist without parts. Impossible. MI SRID Why?

MI SRID DE Well, it's not possible with people. That's what we talk about in DCI. Come.

Or... Or, it's not possible with... Time.

Time. Now, different schools have different ideas about time, so I usually don't use it in DCI as an example of the middle category. But he did, okay?

That's okay. That's his book. DU SROG LA'ANG MI SRID So he kind of said, if it doesn't apply to people, and it doesn't apply to time, then it can't apply to this category.

Okay? It can't apply. This category basically has two parts.

People and time. Okay?

[Speaker 2]
Concept of time.

[Speaker 1]
And the subject of time, if someone had five years to write a book, that'd be an extraordinary book. Because the subject of time in Buddhism is extremely fascinating. And Abhidharma's presentation of time is quite sophisticated.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. Okay, now he's going to break it into two parts. I'll prove it with people, and then I'll prove it with time.

Okay? So he's going to take people.

[Speaker 2]
Dumbo, go ahead.

[Speaker 1]
Because first of all...

[Speaker 2]
Oh, sorry.

[Speaker 1]
Dumbo, dare tell? Good, nice tell. She went up.

I'm talking on...

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
There's four classic positions of the human body. He's only mentioned two of them. The duke and jeng.

And we're going to have an analysis text. Duke as opposed to jeng. Oh, duke is laying down.

No, duke is to sit.

[Speaker 2]
To stay. And jeng is to be standing up. As in?

[Speaker 1]
Jengbo. Okay, there's a vowel called jengbo because it's standing up. Okay, so...

And usually they say going and coming or something like that. They're laying down. Anyway.

And then they divide two other parts of the human body.

[Speaker 2]
The top of the head?

[Speaker 1]
The top upper half and the lower half. Okay. Seramay.

The lower part. Gyutu, Tantra College. Metoma, prostitute.

Sells the lower part. Okay, so du and me means upper part of the body and lower part of the body. Okay.

[Speaker 2]
Yenlak.

[Speaker 1]
Classically the five. One, two, three, four, five. As opposed to the body.

Okay. Yeah, everything except the trunk is called the yenlak. So du must mean the trunk, you see.

Upper part and lower part of the trunk. And the five limbs in classical. Yeah.

So, kichara, jebe, je. So person has... But it's interesting.

So what's he said? The person has parts because they have...

[Speaker 2]
Body parts.

[Speaker 1]
Well, that's easy because their body has parts. But what about the dukdrang? They have positions.

Yeah, they have positions. There's the sitting person. There's the standing person.

[Speaker 2]
It's interesting.

[Speaker 1]
It's strange. Almost in time.

[Speaker 2]
Totally.

[Speaker 1]
You see, almost in time. Okay. It's very sexy.

Very cool. Okay. Why does the person have parts?

Well, they got arms and legs and head and all that. Yeah, but they also stand and they also sit, meaning different positions, implying different times also. There's the nick of yesterday and there's the nick of today.

So person has parts. Okay, got it? It's a very interesting proof, in my opinion.

Okay, he's concluded the concert. Yeah, go ahead. Okay.

Human Dictionary. Okay, short. Good.

Okay, we would say day in English. So, translate. To be partless.

Yeah. This du means period of the day. This du means period of the day.

Okay? The six watches of the day. Okay?

So don't take it as time. It's the watch of the day. In ancient English, we say watch.

Like morning, middle part of the day, evening, and then early night, middle night, late night. So these are called du druk in Tibetan.

[Speaker 2]
Would you try to get away with hours?

[Speaker 1]
No, because then you have to split the periods of the day into earlier periods of the day and later periods of the day. Sorry, later morning, earlier morning. Okay, later evening, early evening.

Okay, got it? So early evening, later evening. All right, like that.

Okay. Now, this is beautiful. I mean, if you're going to teach the part thing, just use these two pages for the rest of your life, and you're covered.

Okay, really, it's the most cogent— what do you call it when it's short?

[Speaker 2]
Concise.

[Speaker 1]
Cogent and concise and succinct, yeah. Okay, here you go. By the way, illegally, sometimes they say dun te.

There shouldn't be a prenasal on a second column. But sometimes they say dun te. If you can.

Dun te. Okay. Good.

I miss Phil. What's his story? He didn't reply to— He said he couldn't come because he couldn't sit in his chairs.

Okay, maybe he's in pain or something. Okay, go ahead. He's having trouble sitting.

Okay, mi te te.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, good.

[Speaker 1]
It's the same argument as the six parts of an atom, really. But here we go. So du ta, what's the ta here mean?

But what's it mean with du ta, ke chik? Which is the smallest piece of time. The ta here means which is the smallest piece of— krai, krai, in Peruski.

The edge, you know. Pakraini, myera. The most tiny piece of time.

Okay, du ta means edge. Ke chik ma de. Cha me yin nam nyam na.

Now you may wonder to yourself, What? If it doesn't have parts? No, yin nam doesn't have parts.

Okay, is it partless or not? The smallest amount of time. The smallest amount of instant.

Which classically in Buddhism is what? In Abhidharma. Yeah, one-sixty-fifth of a finger snap.

Divide finger snap into sixty-five parts. That's called du ta, ke chik ma. Now, you may think to yourself, Can you split that?

Is it also partless or can you split it? By the way, the whole argument is supposed to make you get uncomfortable with the way we think about things. Okay?

It means the way we think about things is completely wrong. If they existed out there, or you could say smallest part, blah, blah, blah. But if they're coming from us, you can't say that anymore.

You see? It's supposed to make you feel uncomfortable. You're supposed to freak out.

Everyone in this room should be screaming. There's no cars, there's no people, there's no buildings. It's supposed to make you think, Wow, what?

What's going on? Where's it coming from? It's supposed to make you break your way of thinking.

de yang mi te. Yeah, that's not... You can't say there's a smallest piece of time.

You can't say there's a partless piece of time. Why? rang di kye chik nga ma Because there's an instant before it.

Okay? There's an instant before that instant. Okay?

And do they make contact? You see? delway cha.

Is there a place where they make contact? Okay? Or does 501 lead to 513?

You tell me. Does 502 come after 501? Or does 501 can lead to anything?

Because del means, Are they connected? You know? Got it?

Does 501 suddenly become 513 the next moment? No. Oh, so there must be some connection between 501 and 502.

Yeah. Oh, then there has to be a front part of 501 and a back part of 502, right? Okay, got it?

It's very interesting. Okay? delway cha dang chepay cha It must have a part of it which is connected to the moment before.

But then you get into the six of atoms problem. Okay? It's very beautiful.

It's very important. Okay. yinpay chey Go ahead.

Oh, no, no. It doesn't have any connection to its previous moment. Yeah, the guy said.

Yeah, it does.

[Speaker 2]
nang key chik ngam mey far dung djung mi sipay chir ro Translate.

[Speaker 1]
We're done with this. No. Not yet.

It can't self. Because it can't djung. Because it can't join.

It can't come into being without the the moment before it. Okay? You can't say there's not a particular moment connected to it just before, because if that's possible, it wouldn't happen.

Okay? It would just pop out from the moment in 1854. You see what I mean?

[Speaker 2]
Really.

[Speaker 1]
Okay? It has to have a relationship to a previous moment. Or it can't happen.

Got it? Okay. He's finished physical things.

He's finished changing things which are neither physical or mental. And now he's going on to mental things. Then he'll be done with changing things.

And then he's probably going to go to unchanging things. And he might do unchanging things which are not emptiness, and unchanging things which are emptiness. Okay.

Okay.

[Speaker 2]
Go.

[Speaker 1]
Good. Good. Even the mind must have parts.

Even awareness must have parts. Why? And I like this division.

I like his division. Tell me why. Yeah, exactly.

You're doing good today. You must have had a good vacation. Yeah, because what?

[Speaker 2]
The minds of those who have not seen emptiness.

[Speaker 1]
The way he chooses to divide mind is so beautiful to me. You know, he's like, you got minds that saw emptiness, and you got minds that didn't see emptiness. And that's the first division he can think of.

He didn't say good mood, bad mood, you know, stupid, smart. When he thinks about dividing mind, he's like, oh, the mind which saw emptiness and the mind which didn't see emptiness, directly. He divides all minds into that.

It's very beautiful. I think awareness is more correct. Okay, but he says, he gives you an alternate division.

Dhun-dhun and dhun-dhun. Wait, who was working on dhun-dhun? You were.

Yeah. Chöchen, Tunangwa. Now, don't call it Harmony Chöchens.

We got to reserve that language for other translations. Yeah, and what it means is mistaken and non-mistaken. Dhun-dhun means the state of its object matches what it thinks about the object.

So dhun-dhun means... You could call it Harmony Object if you want to translate it in another place instead of this school.

[Speaker 2]
We had a different word for that, but we were talking about technology.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, tell me, there's a sexy word. For...

[Speaker 2]
What was it? Discrepancy.

[Speaker 1]
I mean, you could go there, but... There's a discrepancy between the way thing is and the way you think it is. Is the coffee, does the coffee have sugar?

Yeah, it tastes sweet. You know, but there isn't any sugar, it's just the milk is... You see what I mean?

So, that's dhun-dhun. I misperceived the object. Okay.

It means the object ain't the way the shepa thinks. And then there's shepas which are correct about the object. So we could divide all shepas into those two.

Et cetera, et cetera. He says, sok, sok, sok. Okay, you could divide it many ways.

Okay. Yeah, what? Division.

Yeah, you can divide it. Even one person's mind over the course of a day has the dhun-dhuns and dhun-dhun-dhuns. You know, times when it's seeing the object correctly and times when it's not seeing the object correctly.

Okay. So, and it will shift from one to the other. So that mind has divisions.

You can't say it's partless. Okay, cool. Cool.

Oh, by the way, to clarify, that last division was in general, all consciousnesses. And now he's going to... Yeah, please read.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
He's got like three examples here. Khalsa chik. Take...

Now let's just limit ourselves to one person's mind. Khalsa chik gi gyu. The mind in the being of one person, technically.

The mind in the being of one person. The gyu here means the being, not that's mind. Okay.

The mind in the person, of a single person. Okay. A long...

There's sel-mi-sel. Yeah, you can be having a clear meditation, or you can be having a foggy meditation. And by the way, somebody else's text is going to have this soon.

Or, du-kyi rim-pay cha. What's rim-pa? Like long...

Yeah. You know, moments of... Successive moments.

Right. Okay. It can be divided into the successive moments.

Okay. And, even the shepa ke-chik-ta-ma. Even one moment of consciousness.

No, the final moment of... By the way, usually it's... There's two kind of ke-chik-ta-ma and shepa.

One is before you die. And one is... before you become a Buddha.

These are the classic ke-chik-ta-mas of shepa, of mind. Actually, shepa has no ke-chik-ta-ma. You know, there is no final moment of mind.

It's eternal.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
It goes on forever. So, you know, just in general terms, you can say, the last moment of your thoughts while you were drinking coffee or something, or... Okay.

Ke-chik-ta-ma. That itself, yang, even that one, the final moment of mind while you... the final moment that you're in this room and aware of the room before you walk out, for example.

That has rang-di ke-chik-ta-ma, dang-drel-way cha.

[Speaker 2]
That's connected to it. That's a part that's connected.

[Speaker 1]
It has the first... the front end and the back end of the moment. Okay.

There's the front end and the back end of the moment.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Cool? So, get used to this idea of front end and back end in time, of a moment has a back end that touches the past. It has a front end which touches the future.

And never the two will meet. Ah, here we go. This is kind of what I've been waiting for.

Sure.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, and he gives three beautiful examples. Okay, what's dum-ma-che?

[Speaker 1]
A thing which exists, which doesn't change. You kind of have to say it that way. Yeah.

A thing which exists, but doesn't change. Or which is not caused. Okay?

Which is not caused, okay? Ah, it's impossible for it to be... Partless.

Partless. And he gives three examples. So, he's brave.

You know, it's brave to give one. And he's like, I can give you three. Most people can't name three unchanging things.

But he's like, I can prove you with three different kinds of unchanging. What's the three examples? And is-ness.

And the is-ness. Yeah. Yeah, and such-ness.

Okay? So, he takes empty space. And then he takes the cessation of a negative quality.

The truth of the... The truth of the ending of a negative quality. And then he takes emptiness.

[Speaker 2]
Okay?

[Speaker 1]
And the second is pretty Abhidharma. Okay? It's going to last four hours.

It has no carbon. Okay. Alright.

Now he's going to talk about one by one. Okay? Dambodara-thala.

Go. Dambodara-thala. Dambodara-thala.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, go ahead. Yeah, right?

[Speaker 2]
Pum.

[Speaker 1]
Pum. Pum means a hundred thousand. Pum means a hundred thousand.

[Speaker 2]
Pum.

[Speaker 1]
Pum. Pum. It's okay.

Yeah, downstairs we're going to study the four kinds of space, this term. And it's a meditation that we do. And when we want to talk about emptiness, to get people's mind used to what emptiness is not.

And there's a popular idea of empty space as the place... Like, if I buy a new refrigerator, right? I have to measure it.

Why? Yeah, it has to fit in the space between the two counters. So I have to measure the space between the two counters.

And then when I go to the store, I have to measure the refrigerator. Okay? So, there's a way of teaching empty space, which is saying, the space between Michael and the table.

The distance between Michael and the table. But this is not empty space. And it irritates me when they use it.

Okay? It's not exactly correct. That's a wrong idea of space.

Space is the place the refrigerator is in after you shove it between the counters. You see? It's not the distance between two things.

You see what I mean? So I object to this, using this for dumache. But some people do it.

So I'm just saying, it's not totally comfortable to me. So, I'm doing the last one first, by the way. Kongtong.

Kongtong means the empty space, but not in the sense of where the refrigerator is standing. It means the place between two physical things. You see?

And then there's a kongtong inside a glass. You see a kongtong in here? The space between the two edges.

That's not empty space. So I object to this one, personally. It's misleading.

But he used it. Yeah, so this last one, which irritates me, is the empty place inside a vase, which is sitting over there. So the empty space inside Inna's jar, and the empty space inside my jar.

But that's not empty space. Empty space is the place the jar is in. It's not the space between the edges of the jar.

But he's using it as an example. By the way, if he had said a kongbu of iron, I would have been comfortable. If he had said a clump of iron, the space that her clump of iron is taking, and the space that my clump of iron is taking, I'd be comfortable.

But he has chosen an example which is misleading, implying that the space between the two edges is space. And it's not, okay? I object to his example.

Okay, that's all. We'll go back to it later, okay?

[Speaker 2]
We'll stop here. As a dumache.

[Speaker 1]
I think it's just a popular misconception among writers. And unfortunately, it's a very popular misconception among students. I struggle in DCI.

The reason I made a forced space meditation, is that I want to make sure they know it's not space. Okay, stop here. 1, 16, 119.

Nice, so if you ever have to teach this part thing, now you know where to go. And it has happened in my own life, that I am frequently now drawing from your translations. I'll take Chang Tzu, his translation.

Yours came up somewhere else. Yeah, somebody else was talking about, your text was talking about the debate between a detailer and somebody. So I just went to his text and took out his detailer stuff and put it in your text.

And this kind of, what do you call it? Illegal mixture of royalties? No, there's a bad word for it.

Yeah, this kind of incest is going to be more and more popular in our group. Okay. Okay.

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