Медитации на пустоту: объяснение шагов к пониманию того, что ничто не является самим собой, занятие 27

[Speaker 1]
And everyone is invited to come. I would say required. Okay, so we're in this section of the text where Choney Lama is talking about the existence of outer objects from the point of view of the Lai-Dong School, and he paused us to say, you know, maybe we should know a little bit more about what outer object means to the different philosophical schools.

[Speaker 2]
So, in general, what do the two objectists' schools believe about whether outer objects exist? Yes.

[Speaker 1]
Come on, get serious. It's plain to see they exist. Oh, I'm sorry, that was not a bad answer, actually.

That was on my bike ride yesterday.

[Speaker 2]
Wow.

[Speaker 1]
Oops, sorry.

[Speaker 2]
Right, yeah.

[Speaker 1]
What did the two lower schools say? It's plain to see. It's plain to see they exist as outer objects.

Yeah, basically. Well, what's your answer? It's plain to see they exist as outer objects.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
The next question is, what did the detailists say? More specifically, what did the detailists say about what's going on when we see an outer object? Magic bridge.

Magic bridge.

[Speaker 2]
Are you talking about the space, right? The space is produced by our karma. And only a medium?

Without a medium. Exactly, contact without a medium. With the what?

Eye-sense power. Right, so the eye-sense power comes into contact with the object without a medium.

[Speaker 1]
What's a debate that comes out of that?

[Speaker 2]
Then you could see something that's miles away without a medium.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, if it's not coming across the air to me, then why can't I see something equally well if it's far away? And they're not saying through a wall. They're not saying that.

They're just saying, if I stand outside and I put an orange juice cup on a mountain, if it's all coming from karma, why can't I see it as clearly as if it's in my hand?

[Speaker 2]
Come on, I can only see the big E and not the little...

[Speaker 1]
Oh, you're welcome to... Somebody wants the cursor fixed, by the way. Okay.

And then what do the sutras say is going on when we see something? Sutras? Oh.

So say it in a way that what's going on with us when we see something.

[Speaker 2]
The object.

[Speaker 1]
The images the object is throwing. The eye consciousness, right? That replicates of the object are appearing to the visual consciousness.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Through a medium or without a medium?

[Speaker 2]
Medium.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, the image means that the replicate of the image is the medium. Yeah, it's throwing off copies of itself. That's the difference between them and philosophy.

One of the differences.

[Speaker 2]
Well, you're talking about eye consciousness versus eye power.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, that's true. Whether that was on purpose or not, I don't know. Probably.

Probably.

[Speaker 2]
Gyang che?

[Speaker 1]
Is it the distance? Separated at a distance. I originally said the distance was separated.

That wasn't clear. It is to a distance. It exists at a distance.

It's called gyang che. Even though che means cut, it means separated by a distance. What's gyang?

Gyang means far away.

[Speaker 2]
Okay. I need that one. Now make this big.

Oh yeah, the thug is like thug in a... in a... My song doesn't have a name.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, what's thug?

[Speaker 2]
Thug is like thug or is it to me?

[Speaker 1]
It's similar to thug. Yeah, similar to thug. To me.

To run into. Come on, Sugeng had CHE. No, that's CHOS.

He had CHE in the discussion of the links. If I have to tell you one more time, I'll break your hands too.

[Speaker 2]
CHE. Okay, decide which hand you want. Touch.

Make contact.

[Speaker 1]
Why did we have it in Sugeng's text? Just do the twelve links, actually make contact. We discussed it yesterday in the DCI class.

All right.

[Speaker 2]
Contact an enemy, really. Small. A little bit.

[Speaker 1]
A little bit. Yeah, just a bit. Tiny, tiny.

In colloquial. Tiny, tiny. Tiny.

What's another idiom? Itsy-bitsy. Itsy-bitsy.

If you say that, your American English is perfect. Itsy-bitsy.

[Speaker 2]
Itsy-bitsy.

[Speaker 1]
It means tinsy. Tiny, tiny. Very small.

[Speaker 2]
Very small. Itsy-bitsy.

[Speaker 1]
But there was a song about it which is bad, so you have to be careful. Okay, here we go. That was bad.

Sixty-one. Yeah, I mean, most of those people are dead. Only his again.

All right. Adam has the plane. How about Phil, because you're next to her?

But still talk loud, okay? Utpala? I'm just repeating this one sentence from last time.

Because it's the beginning of a subject. ,DE YANG, DU DRAN LA ZHIG YUL NAMS TE, ,DU DRAN BYAMS SRAB PA'I RAG PAR DE, ,PHYIR BA'I GYUR DU, Extremely nice pronunciation. Okay, we are talking about the Sutra's view.

I just peeked to make sure. Jotan, you know. Adam.

Atom, not Adam.

[Speaker 2]
,BWANG PHYIR KYI YUL MIN PAS, They're not the object of your eye sense, correct?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, or neither your hand or your inheritance. A human's sense awareness cannot detect atoms. They're too small.

In the second school. Therefore, things are made of clumps. ,RAG PAR here means rough.

But it means clumps. Molecules. Of atoms conglomerated.

,SAGS This is interesting because you get a colloquial usage of ,CHE LA SAGS. Yeah, so we have this principle of karma, where you can commit it, but whether you collect it or not is a question. And here's a normal usage of the word ,SAGS, which means atoms sock together and make a molecule.

So it gives you a feeling for what the karma means. But here's the problem. ,CHA MED Yeah, they don't have sides.

According to the second school, the atoms don't have sides. They're so small, they don't have a left side and a right side. Now we're going to discuss the problems with that idea.

Okay? All right. Xiaobing has the plane.

We want to hear some criticism. Go. ,KHYANG RGYUD LAS, ,CI DUN DU KHYANG ZHES PA, ,ZHES MA THAG ,DAG PA'I CI DUN MIN DU PAS ,CI DUN GOG PA'I RIG PAS ,DU CHEN CHA MED ,SAG PA'I RAG PA ,CI ROL DU DUN MIN ZHAG GYEGS KYANG Excuse me?

Cake. Cake. Like birthday cake.

[Speaker 2]
Cake.

[Speaker 1]
It's just cake, okay.

[Speaker 2]
What did I do wrong?

[Speaker 1]
You made it first karma, which is an unusual mistake. It's called overcompensation karma. Yeah, because English is all second karma.

[Speaker 2]
Chir chi dun kek tar mi she do.

[Speaker 1]
That she was nice. You're doing amazing. How much coffee you had?

[Speaker 2]
I can make you like Adam.

[Speaker 1]
I can make you like Adam. Okay. By the way, my only comment on your pronunciation.

When you're reading to an audience, stretch out the instrumentals. Tell way, because it makes it easier for them. It's a tradition when you're reading in public that you say, tell your way, so they know it's an instrumental.

Key, if it has an S, make it long. It helps your reader. Okay, ten gyur wey, the...

Good. The higher half of the middle way school. De dur chi dun.

They accept outer objects. Gyang. Yeah, and this is a big mistake.

It should have been she matak. What's she matak mean? What's matak?

I mean, yeah. Come on. It means I just explained it.

Probably I matak, matak. Just explained. Just explained.

So matak, after any verb, means just, blank. Okay, just explained. We just covered it.

It means we just covered it. She matak. Da chi dun, min du.

What kind of she matak be chi dun? Chi dun, which is a rakpa made of dultans. Dultans, sakpay rakpa.

Cha made dultans. They don't accept sideless atoms. They accept outer objects.

There do exist coffee cups and orange juice. They exist. But they're not made of that kind of atom.

Okay, chi dun, min du pay. So do they have chi dun, gokpay rakpa? Do they have chi dun, gokpay rakpa or not?

This rakpa is logic.

[Speaker 2]
This rakpa.

[Speaker 1]
Good. Do they have any form of logic where they deny outer objects? Yeah, good.

In a certain way they do. Okay, got it? They probably have a logic that asserts outer objects.

Yeah, they have both. The logic they have for outer objects that disproves them is the one that disproves that atoms could be sideless. Okay, got it?

So they do have a logic that denies outer objects. But it's a very specific one. And it's outer objects according to the dodepas.

Got it? Okay. What is their logic for denying outer objects?

Well, how does it go? Well, they talk about du dun chan me. Atoms that don't have sides.

Yeah, yeah. Molecules which are clumps of atoms that don't have sides. Left side, right side.

Top side, bottom side. It's interesting in quarks. Sorry, spin.

Up, down, top, bottom. It's interesting they're using this language. CHU RIGS KYI BDUN YIN PA Is an outer object.

SKAD Yeah, what's another form of this verb? SKAD Here's the past tense. SKAD Soft, second column soft.

SKAD They already refused that. Refused du. SKAD But, and Utpal is going to translate this last but, and nobody else translated it.

And I'll give you a clue. BSHAD PA means take the position. Okay.

Generally, they don't deny outer objects. Good, yeah. Generally, they do not take the position that says there are no outer objects at all.

They just say, this kind of outer object we don't accept. Okay, got it? Okay, good.

Now we're going to get into a little kind of emptiness. And Sugeng has the plan. She's being really careful, so try to find something.

GOD DE'I DE'I NGON PO DANG NGON DU WANG SHES MI YANG CES DU NANG BA LTAR DU BAR NGON DU CING DE'I LTAR NANG BA DE'I, DE'I. Not de, it's not an English de. Did I say that before?

Not once.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
DE'I LTAR NANG NANG RANG NGRE NANG PA GSUR DE NANG ZHAR BA'I PHYIS BSTOD NGON PAR NUS RO Nice, very good. Nice pronunciation. So, he's kind of jumping around.

Now he goes to the dodepas. He goes back to the dodepas. Sutras.

NGON PO DANG NGON GYI RGYUN GYI WANG SHES The sense awareness of your eyes, the awareness of the visible world, and the visible world, visible objects. KYANG PHYIS Oh, at a distance. Yeah, to NGON.

They appear to exist at a distance. LTAR DU So, NGON BA LTAR DU is a very Madhyamaka expression. They do exist the way they look.

They do exist the way they look. What's the opposite called? NGON Yeah, NGON.

Dualism, but I like to call it NGON Discrepancy. There's a discrepancy between the way it looks and the way it is. It's not the same.

The way it looks and the way it is are not the same. That's very important. Here, LTAR DU DUG is that.

So, they believe it looks like things are out there at a distance, and they are really that way. LTAR DU DUG They do exist that way. Okay, got it?

No dualism. No discrepancy. The way they look is the way they is.

Okay, got it? They look like they're out there, and they is out there. Got it?

Okay. And, how does the way they look work? DE LTAR SNANG BA DE Okay, very difficult here.

What do we mean when we say they are the way they look? What does the way they look mean? Okay, DE LTAR SNANG BA DE What does the way they look mean?

YUL KYI NGOS NAS You had NGOS. Yeah, from the side of the object. YUL KYI NGOS NAS RANG BDA' You had a nice wood for it this morning.

[Speaker 2]
I did?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Sending out...

[Speaker 2]
Replicates.

[Speaker 1]
Of itself. Look, green glass. Look, green glass.

It's throwing images to the eye. Right? Something has to be going on.

I mean, we don't think about it, but it must be throwing them fast. 65% Look, green cup, green cup, green cup. Something's going across here.

YUL KYI NGOS NAS RANG BDA' A clone of itself. You see? RANG BDA' NAM PA A clone of itself.

An image, which is the RANG BDA' NAM PA, full. To the observer. To the observer.

TE Yeah, it is sending. It is directing. Close the tongue, right?

It is directing. And that's how it's SHAR BA. So he's glossing NANG BA in the second line.

You want to know what appearing that way means? It gives this appearance. It's SHAR BA.

SHAR BA DE That's what achievement is. That's what an outer object is. You want to know what's an outer object?

It's a thing that appears to you by sending little copies of itself to your eyes. Okay? That's whose idea?

Second Buddhist school. Second Buddhist school. Yeah, scientist.

Scientist. Close to scientist. You want to slow it down?

Sure? Okay. Now, this is interesting, because in the next sentence, he's giving opinions about our objects.

Different schools' opinions of what's happening when you see an outer thing. What's this relate to? Your husband.

When you see your husband and he's yelling, where's it coming from? Is he sending images to you like this? No, really.

The whole purpose of this is to become an arhat. The whole purpose of this is to stop your negative emotions by studying what's an outer object. Okay, got it?

Now he's going to lump together the Ranggipas and the Santambas. Which is kind of, I felt like, well, finally, you're admitting it. The lower middle way school and the mind only school, pretty much the same on this question.

So finally someone said it. I was like, uh-huh.

[Speaker 2]
Which is pretty weird, because one accepts the other. What? Excuse me?

Oh, yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, no, there's no text like that, really. But there are Ranggipas who are called leaning towards the mind only. There's a kind of lower middle way guy called leaning towards the mind only guy.

Lower middle way guy leaning towards the mind only.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, go.

[Speaker 1]
Wait, who's got the plain baguette? Send them. I would call you Muyowa, actually.

Are you listening? Are you correcting? Find something wrong.

DE NYID KYIS TSUL THAMS CAD KYIS GUNG DZIN DBANG ZHES LA NGUNG PO RANG PHYED DU KYANG PHYED DU NANG BA LTAR MA DUG PAR NDOD DE Nice, okay. He was talking about images flying off the coffee cup towards the observer. TSUL, right?

He's in the TSUL mood. So, in the next line, he talks about TSUL MTHONG. Yeah, people who believe things are coming this way.

That's why, how did this get into DCI? Where is this in DCI? Yeah, in the pen talk, when you say to the audience, is it that way or this way?

And they're like, oh, I don't know. That way. This is where it came from.

Everything in DCI came from somewhere. And if you become a great translator, you'll say, oh, Geshe-la took that from here. Okay, so anyway, RANG RGYUD PA DANG SEMS BSAM PA Lower Middle Way End.

Mine only. GNYIS KYI LUGS LA Yeah, in both systems, PHYI ROL GYI DON MED They don't believe there's a coffee cup out there. KYANG PHYED, especially KYANG PHYED.

To a distance. And which is sending little copies of itself. No, no, that's all wrong.

Therefore, they believe, now they split it, Arya and non-Arya. If the person didn't see emptiness directly yet, okay, got it? They say, TSUL TONG, right?

SO SO SKYE BO A guy who thinks things are coming this way. Non-Arya. It's a word for a non-Arya.

In his mind, or her mind, MUN ZIN DBANG GZHAN LA To the awareness of blue, to the awareness of blue, blue appears as though it exists to a distance. But, MA GRUB But that's not the way it is. Now we have a discrepancy.

Now we have a GNYIS RNAMS. So they transcend this duality. Completely wrong. Completely wrong.

GNYIS RNAMS Yeah, people translate it lazily as dualism. Not. It's a discrepancy.

Between what? Yeah. So, the way they appear to a non-Arya, and the way they really are, not the same.

Okay, got it? See?

[Speaker 2]
You said, but. God gives it to you.

[Speaker 1]
What did I say, but? GNYIS RNAMS Anyway. Yeah.

I don't remember what I said, but.

[Speaker 2]
You said, but?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, but they don't exist the way they look. GNYIS RNAMS They believe that. They believe that.

That's their belief. Then they say, why? Why is it that way?

Okay, ready? Chen Zang, you got the plane. Find something wrong.

GNYIS RTZEN YIN Nouns normally. DNGUL RDZIN DBANG SHES LA SNGON PO RGYANG RJE GYI TSUL DU SNANG BA'I SGO NAS DE'I RNAMS PA SHAR BA NI THOG MA MED No, sorry. THOG MA MED PA NAS GOMS PAS Will she make that mistake?

GOMS It's not GOMS. Here it's a crucial difference. The pronunciation is a crucial difference. GOMS GOMS PAS RNUM PAR BRDZOD PA'I BAG CHAGS BAG CHAGS DBANG GIS SHAR BA TSANGS RIM GYIS YOD GYIS TSUL SHAR PA'I RNAMS PA MA YIN Good.

YIN NA RIG PA'I NUS NUS GOMS PAS NUS To hurt, to hurt somebody. Oh, I have dyslexia there.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Speaker 1]
It's not very common. It doesn't belong in a logic text. Okay.

NUS TSUL NI BYAS PAR No, no. BYAS PAR GYUR BYAS PAR GYUR I will explain it later. So you need the prenasal.

I will explain it later. BYAS PAR Not BYAS PAR GYUR. BYAS PAR GYUR I'll talk about it later.

He's like, I'll cover that later. Okay, so what's the question? This is beautiful, this is beautiful, this is beautiful.

Please listen. GYIS RGYUD TSE YANG Why is there a discrepancy? MUN ZIN DBANG ZHES LA LUNG PO RGYANG PHRAD KYI TSUL TU RNAMS BA'I DGOS NAS DE RNAMS PA SHAR BA NAS The fact that it appears to us as though the outer objects existed to a distance from us.

The fact that it appears that way to our awareness of blue. To our awareness of blue. We're going to use that water bottle.

There does appear that there's some distance between me and the thing. And that it's sending pictures to me. It appears that way.

It does. Where did that come from? RGYUD TSE Why?

What's the reason? THOB PA MED PA NAS For time with no beginning. For time with no beginning.

GOMS PA You got used to it. For time with no beginning. And that was MUN ZHUS.

That was indescribable. No, this is MUN ZHUS. Yeah, expression.

We talked about it being out there for countless lifetimes. Now we're used to it. You see?

Yeah. MUN ZHUS is a very mind-only term. It's one of the things laying in the kunship.

And it's all those habits from past lives. Because we talked about it so much. All human languages are defective.

All human languages are defective. You, me, saw it, them. You know?

We give we money for your yoga studio. He's got $2,000 to go. I'll give $1,000 if the mixed nuts give $1,000.

Right now.

[Speaker 2]
Okay? Okay?

[Speaker 1]
They're making a yoga studio. They need a couple thousand more bucks. I'll give $1,000.

You guys collectively give $1,000. Okay, Jigme? That's why I checked my bank account yesterday.

I had a check in my account. All right. 18 is almost like 108.

All right. RGYANG BYAS DU It's okay? BAG CHAGS KYI DBANG It's that we talked about it for endless lifetimes.

So we're used to it. It's over there. RGYANG BYAS means over there.

Let's make a nice translation. Over there. RGYANG BYAS RGYANG BYAS KYI BAG CHAGS SHAL BA TZAM Nothing more than that.

It's nothing more than past bad habit. Because you cannot say we gave us money. There's no way to say that in any human language.

All human languages are wrong. It's really we give us money. For our yoga studio.

SHAL BA TZAM I knew I could get it in there somehow. YIN GYI YIN GYI, what's this GYI? At the end of a sentence.

Yeah, whenever GYI, most of the time when GYI comes at the end, it's a but. But, YUL GYIS TSUL SHAB PAS NAM PA MA YIN PAS It's not that the object is sending you images of itself. It's this way.

It's not that. MA YIN PAS, why? If it were that way, RIG PA'I NUS Your understanding wouldn't be hurt.

That's NUS.

[Speaker 2]
Awareness?

[Speaker 1]
NUS means here, can be disproved by logic. Don't say damaged. Let's turn the air conditioning off for a while here.

[Speaker 2]
It's too cold.

[Speaker 1]
I would just turn it warmer for a while. RIG PA'I NUS Say RIG PA'I NUS But I think he's saying it would be disproved by logic.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
The whole idea that things could be coming this way is illogical. The way you say it in Tibetan is it's damaged by clear thinking. It's damaged by clear thinking.

RIG PA'I NUS It can mean disproved. Disproved. You can prove it's wrong.

You can prove it. And when are we going to disprove it? RIG PA'I NUS How are you disproving it?

NUS TSUL How are you disproving it? Let's talk about it later. Who said that?

The author. I'll talk about that later. RIG PA'I NUS That's why you need a pre-nasal here.

Because RIG PA'I PHYIR RIG PA'I PHYIR We already talked about it. RIG PA'I PHYIR I already told you. RIG PA'I PHYIR I will tell you.

I will talk about it later. Hey, he promised it, not me. Okay.

Who's got the plane? Christina got the plane? Holy Michael.

Yeah, sure.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
What is Holy Michael? Anyway.

[Speaker 2]
Jonah?

[Speaker 1]
Okay, here she goes. yeah and this is a very profound statement about the mind only and you will not see it in many books okay like he had a special understanding of the mind only okay went in one Shayla yeah let's just say my awareness of blue okay when blue appears to my awareness of blue when I'm looking at that in the blue appears to my awareness of blue okay that blue is actually an entity dog me here means entity which is made of mind inner which is inner okay which is made of consciousness the blue the blue that appears to my awareness of blue is part of the awareness okay in this school my normal school okay it's not an she done it's a nung she say it's an inner state of aware it's a part of my mind it's not an outer object okay inner part of my mind yeah inside not out the nung here is as opposed to chew them it's not cheap it's no okay don't need this don't need don't need can mean three things okay number one don't need symbol Mahatma Mahatma great person this doesn't mean in here secondly it can emphasize a combination of parts okay like a okay or it can just mean an entity and here it's an entity so three meanings of dummy okay it is an entity which is in it and made of mine okay chiruki doing minna but it's not an outer object okay minna but may I add who's talking Tony llama day round in shape a non-union although it is an entity which consists of the mind which is holding it it's not mental it's not awareness yeah it's part of the mind but it doesn't know he draws this distinction almost nobody does okay therefore although it's not an outer object there do exist things you see things you hear things you smell things you touch they do exist don't go telling me they don't exist okay then he goes off on it he's upset it's a pet philosophical peeve with him okay don't go saying there's no thing to see don't go saying there's nothing to hear that's also not true even in this school whose school excuse me yeah he's promised he was gonna talk about bull and he's lumping them together yeah he's lumping them together on this topic he's probably gonna split I don't know let's see go this is exciting how much time we run usually when we're having fun it's time to take your time yeah we are Ching may has the plane yeah we have come on criticize find something wrong are you trying to do that everybody can see I was trying to do that yeah now this is a it's a beautiful point that you won't see almost ever okay so record it in your brain okay so the neck oh I ain't a this is a difficult thing to figure out me here is a verb not not it doesn't mean fixed like leg nipa on my nipa a fixed karma non-fiction here it's a verb right it's difficult to perceive this it's it's difficult to understand this topic okay how this works so the how this works that that that things to hear things to see things to smell do exist but they are part of the consciousness but they are not made of consciousness because they don't see they don't think okay got it yeah it means perceived per capita yeah it's probably 5% of cases as a verb this is a difficult thing to to to grasp it means grass it's a difficult thing to grasp and moon in the past now he's gonna criticize you know sloppy thinkers at the past in the past there were Kappa here it doesn't mean wise because he's gonna criticize them so scholar there were thinkers you can say thinkers they're just bad thinkers okay there were thinkers who held to this system who followed this system this is in means they followed the system of the number equals yeah mentalist she chose it make a list I think it's a synonym for my oh yeah okay sorry how many of those scholars many many of them they they believed that things to see things to hear etc and consisted of Shippa they believed they said quote ship I in which never forget that when you say something is mind it means it knows things it has thoughts it has feelings it has awarenesses okay so it's tricky if you say it's mine or it's not mine don't think that way think does it see the world or not does it feel the world or not okay does the coffee cup feel the world even in the mind only school no no got it so it's a ship it done me but it's not Shippa it's a mental entity but it's not aware yeah he's making a distinction they still are stopped but and they're not thinking but they're part of your mind got it yeah they're mental but they're not mine now let's yeah he didn't say stuff so but many of them said things to hear things to taste things to see our mind our mental our awareness they went that far why because now I'm going backwards okay did your sentence is hard I'm gonna say it again those many thinkers who called themselves mind only school okay who followed the mind only school many of them now I'm skipping to the end of this in the middle many of them I believe this do that subhjah chee lo rik jang things that you can see smell taste that they were aware awareness okay ship up why go backwards why because they were mental entities okay of the consciousness that was holding them okay they were part of the consciousness that was holding them my awareness the blue is part of my awareness of blue therefore the blue is thinking got it they couldn't divide between these two cool cool oh and by the way we have to cover this phrase here oh they believe that that's what the mind only system thought Lukla according they said according to the mind only school the things that my awareness of blue hole which is blue because they are a part of my mind they are aware okay which means there is no physical stuff you can't be shit on sick at the same time therefore there is no physical okay got it some people went worse okay and Deepa is a very cute idiomatic Tibetan thing that means this system look B you can say no B or you can say deep a look these guys this system these guys this system okay these guys this system they don't even agree that there exists things to hear or things to say or things to see so dr. Loretta met okay came in right some of those the worst ones among those guys said therefore because it's aware there is no there is nothing to taste there is nothing to see at all yeah he said there's bad mind only thinkers running around yeah okay and among them there's the worst sir mind only thinkers okay got it now he promised us did he to nutso how do we disprove these ideas he said chip on you okay so he was honest sometimes the Tibetan authors promise you an explanation then they don't get it they forget just like somebody else okay you're driving the plane she's making mistakes on purpose I think which I promised to cover it's implied in the syntax okay which I promised to cover yeah I mean there's a thousand different proofs you could give but young let's do some soul yeah the most important ones gosh it means a couple let's do a couple and this is the joy and men drinking bacha express yeah I'll just talk about a few so you're Germans out let's talk about a few I'll talk about a few okay if I were to give you a few top with us in Geneva okay rhetorical if you ask me to give a few well hey I will okay who's got the flame Gibson's got the plane okay challenge him so they pick a license to kill in the way that the sutras believe she done Adirondack met why because there doesn't even exist molecules which are conglomerations of atoms that don't have size yeah now now interesting question who's the Shenron here yeah we're going back to where the Prasangika we're gonna disprove other objects what was what's the logic that the Prasangika uses to deny other objects okay right they accept other objects but they also deny certain kinds of other objects okay got it Prasangika except that our object well do they accept other objects as they do as the sutras do no no therefore they have logic which denies other objects right but only certain people's other object got it okay okay there's no such thing as these molecules who's talking a Prasangika yeah a higher middle-aged school guy is talking hey there's no why do chan charm a man there's no I like without science anyway there's no such thing as the atom without science you can say partners it's okay yeah you're right why do you know cha-ching because there'd be no way to tell where one no no because an atom beautiful if something's an atom it's gotta have part come on it's not that atoms don't have parts by the way the word atom indivisible means no parts in English okay the root is thumb in Sanskrit T I am which means to separate what was the classic example temple the yeah a temple is separated from the town so it's called pum-pum-pum-pum-pum-pum-pum-pum-pum-pum-pum-pum-pum-pum-pum-pum-pum-pum-pum-pum-pum-pum-pum-pum-pum-pum-pum-pum-pum-pum-pum-pum-pum-pum-pum-pum-pum-pum-pum-pum-pum-pum-pum-pum-pum-pum-pum-pum-pum-pum-pum-pum-pum-pum-pum-pum-pum-pum-pum-pum-pum-pum-pum-pum-pum-pum-pum-pum-pum-pum-pum-pum-pum-pum Why do things have to have parts, because they have to have sides?

So he's right. Things have to have parts, because they have to have sides. Why?

And I want to draw your attention to this idiom. Say, kosan nun. Kosan nun.

In the study of physicality, this is an idiom. Kosan nun means, takes up space. In modern Tibetan, kosan means a government position.

A seat in the government. You see? Because they take up space.

Nun means to press, right? We had to press down on the head. If you stick your head up, the demon...

Well, we had to suppress some mental afflictions.

[Speaker 2]
That was in nunbo.

[Speaker 1]
So here it means to take up your place. To take up space. Kosan nun.

NUS SU YOD DGOS LA If something's an atom, it must occupy its space. Kosan nun. Occupy.

Space. It must take up some space. DE LTAR NA, CHOG CHAG DANG BYAS PA RGYUD PA'I PHYIR If you take up space, you must have sides.

Left side, left shoulder, right shoulder. If you take up a seat in this room, you've got to have a left side and a right side. Left shoulder cannot be the right shoulder.

That's what the who says. It's a necessary consequence of the sutra's view. It's a necessary wrong idea.

If things don't have parts, if there is such a thing as an atom, then the left shoulder must be the right shoulder. And you're thinner than chomping. You're this wide.

Got it? Are we out of time? We have one minute.

Okay.

[Speaker 2]
One minute.

[Speaker 1]
Jill's got the plan. Utpala's reading. It's CES PA'ANG RGYUR.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
In the middle of his later explanation, he says, I'll explain this other part later. Okay, what? Why?

Why things can't be partless. Why things can't have no parts. I'll talk more about it later.

So the why just understood? How. SU means how.

Don't always think you have to say way or method. it just means how. How we deny this, I'll talk about it later.

Okay, since we have a minute, let's use it. Please go ahead. ,GZHAN NYANG, ,GCIG ROL DU NUS TE, ,SNGON DZIN DBANG PO'I, ,SNGON GSUM LA SNGON PO, ,RGYANG BYAS DU, ,SNAGS SNANG BA LTAR MA, ,DUG PA'I PHYIR, MA GRUB.

Good, it's not GRUB. GRUB means to prove. GRUB means it's not that way.

Okay, now I draw your attention back to here, this word GZHAN NYANG. Somewhat. Yeah, so now he's on to a second one.

So he didn't lie to us. He promised us a couple of proofs. Here's the second one.

How many he's going to give us, I don't know. ,GZHAN NYANG, moreover, ,GCIG ROL DU NUS TE, It is the case that there are no Arhats. Why?

,SNGON DZIN DBANG PO'I, ,SNGON GSUM LA, To the direct perception of blue, to my direct awareness of blue, ,SNGON PO'I RGYANG BYAS DU, ,SNAGS BA, It's true that the blue seems to be out there, but it doesn't exist the way it looks. This is the way we express the discrepancies. ,SNAGS BA LTAR DU MA GRUB, Say, ,SNAGS BA LTAR DU MA GRUB, ,SNAGS BA LTAR DU MA GRUB, It ain't the way it looks.

It ain't the way it looks. ,GRUB means ain't. ,MA GRUB means ain't.

,SNAGS BA LTAR means the way it looks. It's not the way it looks. Okay, I agree it looks that way.

Why? ,THO MA MED PA NAS SNGON PO'I GRUB PA'I DBANG GIS, Because we've seen it since the beginning of time. Yeah, for countless lifetimes, you've talked about it that way.

And that put a seed in your mind, in your kung chi. It's one of the things that was hanging out in the kung chi. Okay, foundation consciousness.

Okay, well we're starting our second argument, okay? We're going to stop here. What's the date?

[Speaker 2]
Today is the 27th.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. Proof of other minds. Proof of other people.

Yeah, proof that other people exist. Okay. So there's this classic argument, right?

Geshe-la, if everything's coming from seeds in my mind, then all the people around me are coming from seeds in my mind. And I'm living in my mind. And I'm super lonely.

Because I'm the only person in the universe. And everyone's running around in my mind. How do we address this question?

Say it loud. Okay, got it? Your seeds are so good, they make separate people who can think different from you.

And you can marry them, and you can be friends, and you can be enemies, and they can hit you in their car, and you will die. You made them, but you made them as separate people. It's kind of like this.

Yeah, it's true that these are part of your mind, but they're not thinking. Okay, got it? They're separate things.

Okay, got it? Be quiet during this break.

[Speaker 2]
They're meditating downstairs, so try to walk quietly. Doors, quiet on all of them quietly.

[Speaker 1]
Save your number twos for the next break.

[Speaker 2]
Well, as long as those are quiet, they're not. I'd like to come in a few minutes late, because I have to talk to the office people.

[Speaker 1]
Oh yeah, okay, good. It's always good to help people. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

For, you know, in case you're looking for a gym doctor.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, I get it.

[Speaker 1]
And I'll try to ask them more than one day early. Oh yeah, well, for more money maybe. Yeah, I think we'll buy some equipment.

For those just-in-case scenarios. Oh, I have another question. We're trying to work out where to send these things.

Send what? The shipment from India. From India.

Oh, right. I prefer to send it to you. But they can send it to you.

That's fine. Should I tell them that they have to have several flyers for it? Yeah.