Медитации на пустоту: объяснение шагов к пониманию того, что ничто не является самим собой, занятие 23

[Speaker 1]
Hey, it's your airplane. I'm just sitting here. So, Chönyi Lama is still talking about the mind-only school, and the emptiness of things, and we're still talking about things appearing, and how they appear.

So, yesterday we talked about, Chönyi Lama talked about how when an object appears to the eye consciousness, it doesn't appear by its own nature. Rather, it appears to two different kinds of seeds. Do you recall what those two different kinds of seeds are?

No? They don't appear to the eye consciousness.

[Speaker 2]
They don't.

[Speaker 1]
Stinky, smelly fish? They weren't the kind of stinky, smelly fish, no?

[Speaker 2]
Two kinds of seeds, yeah. Yeah, right. Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Samadhi pratyah? Stable. Stable.

Seeds of misunderstanding. This one, and then the other. Oh, yeah.

Yeah, for continually naming. From time with no beginning.

[Speaker 2]
But it's not just that.

[Speaker 1]
This is a visible object. This is its null. This is its essence.

Kepar, this is its kepar.

[Speaker 2]
The other seed does all three of those.

[Speaker 1]
Over, over, over. Seeds for doing those things.

[Speaker 2]
Two kinds of seeds.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
Okay. So one kind in this case is divided into three. Okay.

Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. I'm going to give you a new input of her. Oh, I'll kiss you if you do.

It's coming.

[Speaker 2]
You can now hold it. That was really frustrating. That was really frustrating.

[Speaker 1]
I just airdropped it to you. Did you come? No.

Michael's MacBook Pro.

[Speaker 2]
101st airdropped it to you.

[Speaker 1]
I don't see anything. I'm waiting. I'm waiting.

[Speaker 2]
You see this here? It says airdropped. Oh, it does.

[Speaker 1]
Airdropped. Thank you. Where'd it go?

[Speaker 2]
Into the downloads folder.

[Speaker 1]
What's it called? Tempe. BST?

Yeah, BST. Sorry to interrupt you. Go ahead.

[Speaker 2]
What do we call that second part of Vajrasattva? In English, I call it the naming one.

[Speaker 1]
Right. It's something to do with that, right?

[Speaker 2]
The verbalization.

[Speaker 1]
What is that? We were using verbalization. Namparjype.

Namparjype Vajrasattva.

[Speaker 2]
The C is for verbalization.

[Speaker 1]
What's the C for verbalization? Let me look it up. Yeah.

Namparjype. It's like, I'll be Vajrasattva. For Namparjype?

Yeah, it's pretty fair.

[Speaker 2]
Namparjype. Namparjype. Nampar.

[Speaker 1]
M-N. Nampar. Namparjype Vajrasattva.

You got it? J. J.

B-R-J-O-D. Thank you. Vadati.

Vad means... B-R-J-O-D. It's probably related to Vaak, which is where voice came from, and Vaak's amplifiers.

And vocalize and vowel. So earlier, as in a few days ago, we were curious about this idea of pen, that it was spelled the way it was, as it relates to bapchaks. And Yeshella found this text by Khytsan Moksang Jamyang, or the Mun Lam, that clarified this description by listing five characteristics that the foundation that is infused must possess.

So what did we learn about the first characteristic? That it has to be stable in order to then yield, for the bapchak to stay there. Uh huh.

Smearable.

[Speaker 2]
And stable. Smearable. Yes.

[Speaker 1]
It's the same.

[Speaker 2]
It would stick around.

[Speaker 1]
It also reminds me of my gum. Two examples. Like a this, but not like that.

Like a sesame seed, but not like sesame. So not a cameral, but yeah. Like a sesame seed?

By the way, I saw another reference that it said stone and wood instead of sesame seeds. Maybe it means sesame. No, I guess it's seed.

It's uncomfortable, because still would be the seed put into the kumquat. You see what I mean? I don't know why he said still.

I'm really worried about it. Anyway, starting to... Maybe the new input of Cishan.

Okay. From the front side?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, good. Now this next one should be easy. Yeah.

What is it in Sanskrit? Happy Father's Day!

[Speaker 2]
I'll give you $5.

[Speaker 1]
Happy Father's Day. Yeah, essentially. Established as an appearance.

Nope. You got the right words, but not in the right order. Appearing as an establishment?

Nope, not quite the right order. Oh, this is extremely important expression. Yeah.

Appearing like. Established to appearances. All right.

Exist. Established to be like an appearance? In plain English.

It's got my particle there.

[Speaker 2]
Right.

[Speaker 1]
As being like.

[Speaker 2]
Appearance. Exist.

[Speaker 1]
Exist as it appears. $20 for normal English right here.

[Speaker 2]
She already said it. Exist as it appears.

[Speaker 1]
It is the way it looks. It is the way it looks. I'm going to give $20 to myself.

Exist as it appears.

[Speaker 2]
Discuss this later.

[Speaker 1]
Give money to myself. Everyone gets a hundred. Winner of the lottery.

No, but it is the way it looks. It is the way it looks. That's a big deal in Buddhism.

Deceptive. That's a big deal. So I guess nobody likes the logo or the name.

People like the logo. When I teach this, I will not be teaching from the school of translation.

[Speaker 2]
Fair enough. That was my.

[Speaker 1]
But you're welcome to use it if you want to.

[Speaker 2]
I'm going to have a dancing bear. Fair enough.

[Speaker 1]
If you want to be with 10,000 people. Dancing bear. We can make it something else.

[Speaker 2]
You're welcome to.

[Speaker 1]
I think it would be cool if you want to use it. That's cool. I think it would be cool if you want to use it.

Okay. We can make a different logo, too. I like the logo for our group.

But when I teach it, I won't be teaching it as of the group. You know what I mean? Can I take the plane?

You've got the plane. The plane is yours. That's a nice song.

We're kind of.

[Speaker 2]
Thank you.

[Speaker 1]
It's a course. Oh, yeah. Which one is this?

Still. I'll go for this one. I'll go for this one.

I could be a rambler from the southern dives. Don't pay taxes, cause I never file. I don't do business that don't make me smile.

I love my aeroplane, she got style. I'm a treetop flyer. I'm a treetop flyer.

I'm a treetop flyer. I'm a treetop flyer. I'm a treetop flyer.

I fly down into the canyon. I've never seen a sun. There's no such thing as an easy ride, to be tied by a rope.

That's awesome. That's a good song, I like that. One more verse.

I fly low, I'm in high demand. I fly low, I'm in high demand. Fifteen feet on the Rio Grande.

I blow the mosquito right up off of the sand. I blow the mosquito out of the sand. Diamond Mountain people can appreciate it.

Okay, let's go. So, I love this next part because finally we kind of get some clarity on the idea that a thing doesn't have to be called what it is. And he's going to give three proofs.

He's going to take it from Thich Duc, please go. Thich Duc, who wrote it? Thich Duc, who wrote it?

Sangha? Yeah, Sangha. Companion of the Waves.

Which is a big mind-only text. It sounds like it's a Companion of the Waves, but it's not. Okay, and let's just do the words and not understand it yet, because he's going to reveal it.

So this is one of those translations where you want the text to be mysterious, and then he gets to go, oh, guess what this means. So you've got to reserve that for him. Don't say too much.

ming gi ngarbo mang mey che. Anybody want to take a shot? That's one element.

They are not before the word? No, there's no state of mind before the word. We don't know what it means yet.

And then mangway che. So he's giving, because there's no state of mind before the word, because there are many, that's all. And third, because they are mangdre.

Good. Misha, misha, mishae. Misha.

Whatever. Russian has it more close. de dang ni dak mang dang.

Its nature would have to be many natures. Something like that. Or, yeah.

Dang je gelwa dukpa je. The mixture of the self would be contradictory. Therefore it is established.

And he wants it to be mysterious, and then he wants to explain it to you. He did a good job.

[Speaker 2]
That's a relief.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, he did a good job. But luckily he's going to explain it right now. So I would like you to make a bibliography and turn it into a phenomenal book.

Here's the, I went and got you the thing, and I captured a folio number. So all you really need in your scholarly life is the ASMP number and the folio number. Everything else is derivable from all the tools you have.

I don't have to do it. Where do we start here in this? In this quotation?

Let's not even go there. I mean, it's here. Let me see where it is.

If you see a page number up here, it means your quotation is at the end, the other end. Right, yeah. Because I was trying to find a...

Oh, there it is. There it is, yeah, okay. DER TSIG TSUL BYAS PA means let me tell it to you in a poem.

Okay, DER TSIG TSUL BYAS PA. Let me give it to you in a poem. So he had a long explanation, and then he said, let's make a poem about this.

And that's very common.

[Speaker 2]
Because I have to stay in my own being and so on.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, and I didn't have time to incorporate your new typing yet, so we're still going to have some weirdities. Weirdity, is that a name? No, I just mean I didn't have time to grow it.

Is there questions we have at all?

[Speaker 2]
God bless you.

[Speaker 1]
You don't have to worry about it. At all. Okay, go ahead.

Who's your... and here's your revenge, okay?

[Speaker 2]
She dies.

[Speaker 1]
Don't forget your grandma.

[Speaker 2]
Uh-oh, he did.

[Speaker 1]
That was a hard one for me. I was like, what's the one over here? Duh.

It's very... this text is... Naughty.

Naughty. We want some errors here. Keep going.

Okay, if they don't make an error, ask them to keep going. Naughty. Naughty.

Keep going. Keep going. All right.

She, Rikpasu. This quotation, so when it's structured with a she, when it starts with a she, it means these words of a sangha, these lines of a sangha that I just gave you, they are indicating three logics, Rikpasu. They are indicating three different logical reasons why things cannot be named what they are.

By themselves. So, Rikpasum ten. And here's the first.

Here's the first of them. So I'm going to give you three reasons why something can't be named what it is automatically. And then we'll understand forever this mind-only principle, which is important, which is probably the nastiest one.

So these three are beautiful. If anybody asks Professor Word 20 years from now, what the heck does it mean that the thing isn't named by itself? And then you can say, ah, well, there's three reasons.

Okay, so here we go. Here's the first. I numbered them for you.

You see, there's number two down there. There are short reasons.

[Speaker 2]
Number three in just a few terms.

[Speaker 1]
By 2020. Okay, so, tong dirwa. This is worth 30 bucks.

No, just cancel that. Round. And you can see his hands.

I'm just going to give it back to you. I'm a man of my word. If you want to buy anybody a donut or something, that's up to you.

Okay, anyway, explain it again for everybody. It's bulbous or round. Exactly.

Supo che. Supo che. Big gutted.

Yeah, big belly. So, tong dirwa. Tong dirwa.

Tong dirwa. Open bow and a lambda tongue bow. Tong dirwa.

Okay, but what is it referred to? Well, in our case, well, in my text, it was referring to the functionality of a coffee cup. It was flat on the bottom, round, and able to hold water.

Which is the definition of a? Of a coffee cup or water pitcher.

[Speaker 2]
Water pitcher.

[Speaker 1]
Water pitcher. Okay, so in Buddhism, it always has a definition. It's a thing with a little bottom on it.

And it has a fat belly and it has a spout. And it holds water, sorry.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, right, no spout.

[Speaker 1]
So this is the definition of it. So tong dirwa sok la. So what he's saying is he wanted to remove the name from the object.

And then he wanted to make a big deal about giving it the name Ves. So he said, let's take those bulbous things. Let's take those little pot-bellied things.

Besides me. So anybody who's Buddhist, you know, Tibetans, would know that those things were called that. Yeah, rang rang gi min jukpa means to apply its name to it, to apply their names to them, their respective names.

Rang rang gi min jukpa de. Now, Utpa is going to give you this. Rang gi ne tsuk gi wang gi chuk.

It's not through the, you don't label through the card itself? Yeah, it's not that, it's not that the name would apply, juk, just from the nature of the thing. So nektsa is a tough, I would say through the nature of the thing.

It's not the nature of the thing that it should get its particular name. That's all. It's not the nature of the thing that all these little pot-bellied things should get their name, get the name that they get.

Okay? Rang ne tsuk gi wang gi juk shing. By the way, he didn't say no yet.

He didn't say no yet. He didn't say, and there's no word here, negative. It's just, here's the punchline.

What's that? When, whenever, something is, if. If things were like that.

And then he's going to have a list of problems. That's all. He didn't deny it yet.

If all these little pot-bellied guys were called what they're called, he didn't even say Vesya. He's making it mysterious. If all these little pot-bellied guys were called what they're called, then, and.

Is it pot-bellied guys, or is it the word bulbous and the other words that define bulbous? No, this means pot-bellied guys. If all these little pot-bellied guys running around, he's desperately avoiding the word bulbous because he wants it to be, look, you get the word.

Okay, so he's making it mysterious. All these pot-bellied guys.

[Speaker 2]
It's a touchy thing.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, yeah. If all these plastic cylinders. What's the soap thing?

And other guys, like, guys who hold up roofs. Right. Which is the definition of the word.

Right, okay. Does it say that? Okay.

[Speaker 2]
All right.

[Speaker 1]
If they could be the thing that gets the name in it automatically, if they could be inherently the thing that gets their name, that's all he is. He didn't say anything else yet. He didn't say anything else yet.

If they could be the thing that gets their name automatically, inherently, whatever, okay, then here's some problems. Go, please read. Let's take bulbous.

No, first read the whole line. We want to pick on you. Go down.

[Speaker 2]
Sure.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. Let's take bulbous. Good.

I like fat old belly. Let's take a pop belly.

[Speaker 2]
Let's take a pop belly.

[Speaker 1]
Let's take this part. Yeah, it makes me uncomfortable too. The punchline is here.

Sugeng is going to tell you what tö means because tö-dö is the definition of ten-dö. Ten-dö. It's the definition of dependent origination.

Things that relate. Yeah, things that depend on something else or rely on something else. Reliance is the definition of dependence.

It's just not very satisfying, but that's what it is. So döpa means to rely on something. Is it related to ten-dö?

Somehow it's related to the verb to look to somebody for help.

[Speaker 2]
To tawa.

[Speaker 1]
You see, I depend on you means I look to you. So it's related to verbs for looking. L-T, L-T-A.

So anyway, da-la-mi-döpa. So are you telling me when you give the word ves, to it, when you give the word ves to it and you apply that term, tane-döpa, are you telling me it doesn't rely on an expression? So da and tane are very close to each other.

V-R-D-A. Sorry, here. V-R-D-A and tane are pretty difficult to separate.

So are you telling me when you apply the name ves to a little pot-bellied thing, you're not relying on a term? Okay, you're not... There's no opponent here.

We're just putting forth the syllogism. Well, the opponent came here, you know. If things were that way, if things were that way, then when I call a ves, a ves, I must not be using a word.

I must not be using a word. That's why you're going down, because it's sarcastic. So it is what it is.

It's called what it is automatically, right? He said, right. Then I say, okay, so when I call a ves, I'm not using a word, right?

I'm not using a word. I don't have to use a word, right? Then he says, between here, he says...

It is... Oh, I would just say... Yeah, he says, she's here.

Why did he say that? He's always the fall guy. Why did he say that?

Why would he say that? kyepa-bo-mo shi-jupe thai-nyi kyi shi-rupa nitsukin Because it is called what it is automatically. That's all.

kyepa-bo-mo When we call it ves, then it exists by the nature of the thing as the object to which the term is applied from its own side. Okay? nitsukin Now he threw in ngeun-ne.

Nitsukin would have been bad enough. Nitsukin would have been bad enough. But he's like, it's called by what it is automatically from its own side.

Like he threw in... Through its own nature. Let's throw in, by definition, from its own side, all of its own, and keep dumping those words on the guy.

[Speaker 2]
Okay?

[Speaker 1]
nitsukin-ne-ru-ang-nyi-tsen-ki-du-bi-chu Because that's according to you, right? From its own side. By it in and of itself.

By the nature of it.

[Speaker 2]
Right?

[Speaker 1]
Then he says, then he changes story. Right here he changed to... There's only two choices.

He's a Finnish teacher. He says du. Yeah, he says du.

Okay, okay, okay. Then I agree. You don't need a word when you call a ves a ves.

He's getting desperate. The second choice is always desperate. This is the Earl Burney thing.

Okay, yeah, then I agree. You don't need a word. Earl Burney offensive.

Okay, yeah. Please read. You got the plan.

Yes, sir. I got the chart. The vitamin C is lonely.

Myaung-pa. Myaung-te-lo. Ke-wa-te-lo.

Da-la. Ke-wa-ta. Ngyur-pa-te-chu.

Ke-wa-ta. Ngyur-pa-te-chu. Struggle with this and give it to me.

You know, as a team. Okay, well, if you agree, if you agree to what we just said, if you think to yourself that, to be, to be, yeah, the thought, then there's word, okay, I mean, to not be related, kiaiwa. Well, let's put two pieces, let's just do two pieces, what's no kiaiwa?

When the thought comes up in your mind, when the thought comes up in your mind, okay, hey, this is, this little potbelly guy is a vase, when that pops up in your mind, hey, this little potbelly guy is a vase, okay, then that thought must kiaiwa in your mind, must arise that they are related, they're not related, without relying on a word, okay, all right, so when you look at a little potbelly thing and this sound comes into your mind, oh, vase, well that must come into your mind without there being any word there, huh?

Got it? Yeah. If it were called what it's called by itself, okay, we're getting, we're finally hearing why things can't be called what they're called automatically, which is a big deal in the mind-only school, like we just broke up, we just smashed half of the mind-only school, now we go get all outer objects done and we're done, you see what I mean, the rest is easy, okay?

[Speaker 2]
But they agree to this.

[Speaker 1]
They agree to this, then he's desperate and he says, yeah, that's right, I'm sorry. I would think they think that, it seems right. I'm sorry, can I ask a question about that last part first?

Yeah. What do the two kiaiwas do?

[Speaker 2]
If you think.

[Speaker 1]
When the thought comes up in your mind to call something a vase, that thought must come up in your mind without a word, okay? Wouldn't it be when the thought comes up in your mind that this is a flat, or this is a bulbous, a potbellied? No.

It's understood here, it's like tall or something. When you see a little potbellied guy and then the thought pops up in your mind, vase, it's just vase, you hear the word vase in your mind. Well, that must pop up into your mind, there's your second pop-up.

Yeah, that's the kiaiwa. Pop-ups is a good thing to eat, without needing a word. But it just did, right?

That's the point, okay? Yeah. When vase pops up in your mind when you look at a fat little guy, then are you telling me it pops up into your mind without a word?

It's just ridiculous. Because a vase just pops up in your mind. So you're saying vase is not a word?

Because if the thing were called what it is automatically, it should pop up in your mind without a word. Okay?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, yeah. Without needing a word. Yeah.

Because Thich Duc said, min gyi ngaro lo may che, okay? There's nothing in your mind before the name. This is somehow relating to that.

Okay, here we go. Then he says, yeah, I agree. When vase pops up in your mind, you don't need a word.

That feels right. Keep going. There's a few problems with this typing.

Very frustrating. I told you that already, I guess. Oh, I'm sorry.

I didn't see the L. Oh, this is wrong. Thong dir wa la gung phao.

Che ni min ma. Thong dir wa thong sang ni. Ne.

Thong dir wa thong sang ni. When you have a L, it's almost always going down. Che wa thalo.

[Speaker 2]
Che wa thalo.

[Speaker 1]
Do not, okay? If you agree that you can have the word vase pop in your mind without any word, okay? Then thong dir wa la gung phao shepa.

Ni ma tape nga ru du. Nga ru ne means before. Before you had applied the name vase to these little pot-bellied guys, okay?

Before, before you applied the name, then here we got it, a word from Adam's text.

[Speaker 2]
And it was even a vocabulary word, just by looking at it.

[Speaker 1]
So just at a glance, just from a glance, even just from a glance, then a state of mind would have to pop up in your mind that said, oh look, a vase. Before you give the name, right? Before you think of it as a vase, vase must pop up in your mind.

The moment you see it, there's no time gap. You don't see it, then there's some synopsis closing, and then you say, oh that's a vase. It would just be, you look and it's a vase.

Isn't that kind of what it feels like? Yeah, it feels fast, but it can't be simultaneous, right?

[Speaker 2]
He just said just from a glance, he didn't actually say simultaneous.

[Speaker 1]
The moment you see it, how's that?

[Speaker 2]
Okay, but he didn't say that, he's here saying that.

[Speaker 1]
Just from a glance. Are you guys okay? No, to me it's just pure nonsense.

If it's not a word, how can you say it's a vase? It should feel like nonsense. It's supposed to be nonsense.

Kyawar talo, come on, that's nonsense. Talo means that's nonsense. He is saying it's nonsense.

Now he's going to clarify, okay, don't be scared. Let's go to that, tong dir wa la bun pao. So that's in quotes, right?

No, only bun pa is in quotes. Only bun pa? Yeah, not even the O.

Well, the O is like a period. It's an equational, bun pa by itself is an equational sentence. This is a vase.

In quotation marks. When he goes, O she, O she, he's going like this.

[Speaker 2]
That's a Tibetan word. O she? No.

Separate it with the Latin part.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, separate it here, yeah. Stop here. But it's a valid point to question where does the she begin?

Because in Tibetan we only have the ending quotation mark. We don't have the first quotation mark. So then it becomes a call where you put the first quotation mark.

It's unfortunate. Some people have tried to put them into texts. Rinpoche would have had a heart attack.

You can't mess with a text. That's not your right. Don't do that for the author.

All right. Devotee 2. Okay.

Now he's going to wrap it up. You know, which gives us some comfort. If you still feel uncomfortable, which is probably most of us.

Ding dong. Ding dong. Ding.

They're going to have an airplane. I'm so relaxed. It's a dog fight.

One, two, three. We've got Snoopy flying this way.

[Speaker 2]
It's not mere, it's mean.

[Speaker 1]
I'm just trying to keep it in a ding. I would like to just confirm this meeting. Okay.

Now I have to be careful. Don't deal with Chö Chen. Let's take little pot-bellied guys.

This is Bunpao, I think. Oh, yeah. That's what it was last time.

Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, you would think.

[Speaker 1]
You have the new input. Well, I don't want to spend the time to input the new input. But you can update the text.

I suspect this one might also be Deyot. But I'm not as sure. So, don't deal with Chö Chen.

It's not the case that the little pot-bellied guy is what gets the name based in and of itself, by itself. Okay? Why?

Because, kula bunpao she ming matapay korona. Korona is the same as naro. Before?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, before.

[Speaker 1]
And again, this is the Chinese emperor Koma. Meaning, higher. And in a text, higher means earlier.

You know, up above. In English we say up above, meaning the page before. So, korona is the same as naro.

They're just the same thing. So, before you apply the name, it's impossible to have a state of mind that says, oh, this is that. Yeah, it's Bunpao.

This is that. Okay. It's impossible to have that state of mind.

This is that. Before you've applied the name. And that proves that things are not called what they're called automatically.

And his first reasoning is completed. And how is it expressed in... How is it stated by a sangha?

What did he say? He said it much more succinctly. Yeah, I'm sorry, I shouldn't say that.

All he said was, before the name, the state of mind cannot be. Before the name, the state of mind cannot be. Meaning, in your head you can't say vase before you apply the name vase.

Otherwise, names would be applied without relying on names. Relying on objects. You can't have that thought in your mind, this is a vase, before your mind looks at it and says vase.

[Speaker 2]
Okay. It's not named before you think the name. Yeah, that's right.

[Speaker 1]
Okay.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, I think so.

[Speaker 1]
All right. Time is up, Krishna. You can sit with that one.

You can sit with that one. It's correct, and it's profound. It's not as simplistic as it sounds.

It's so profound it sounds stupid. My homework will be very similar. You can't think vase.

You can't think vase before your mind looks at it and gives it the name vase. You know, first you look, then the mind says vase, and the mind puts the name vase on the thing. It's not that just, boom, vase, it comes in your mind.

Something more is happening. It's not a vase from its own side.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
It didn't have to be called a rose. Right. Okay.

That's the first logic. Sit with it for a while. Sit with it.

[Speaker 2]
It'll come clear.

[Speaker 1]
It'll come clear. Thank you, Krishna. By the time we finish these three reasonings, we'll be more comfortable with how the mind knows.

And then it's all downhill from there, maybe. Can we do the rest of them tomorrow? Oh, it's up to you.

[Speaker 2]
Satsang with Mooji www.mooji.org