Медитации на пустоту: объяснение шагов к пониманию того, что ничто не является самим собой, занятие 19

[Speaker 2]
SASHIFUGI JUKSHING MEDHOCHAM VIRANISHI YINDE GENPALA GYI SANGYE SHINDU MIKTE UWAR GYI DROKON NAMDA SHINGLA CHUKPAR SHOK YIDAMGURU RAM NAMANDA KANGYE YATAYAMI SANGYE CHODAM SOGGI CHOKNAM LA JANG CHUBAR DU DAGMI KHYAT SUKH CHI DAGYI CHEN YIN GYI PAD SUNAM KYI JOK LABEN CHIR SANGYE CHUKPAR SHOK SANGYE CHODAM SOGGI CHOKNAM LA JANG CHUBAR DU DAGMI KHYAT SUKH CHI DAGYI CHEN YIN GYI PAD SUNAM KYI JOK LABEN CHIR SANGYE CHUKPAR SHOK YIDAMGURU RAM NAMDA SHINGLA CHUKPAR SHOK JANG CHUBAR DU DAGMI KHYAT SUKH CHI DAGYI CHEN YIN GYI PAD SUNAM KYI JOK LABEN CHIR SANGYE CHUKPAR SHOK

[Speaker 1]
SOGGI SHOK SHOK SHOK Let's get the SHOK over with. I don't know why everybody's text is getting harder instead of easier. I'm going to go back to paragraphs.

Just I'm going to go back for one minute. So we're talking about NAM RIG PAS KHAG in the context of the mind only. What is that word in Sanskrit?

What's it? Visnjapti. Visnjapti.

Visnjapti valens. Visnjapti valens. Those mentalists.

I like to say mentalists.

[Speaker 2]
Conceptualists. Okay. Conceptualists.

[Speaker 1]
And they say that when a person who understands the terms looks at blue, looks at the color of something which is blue, like the sky, when they look up at the sky, three appearances are making, are coming in their mind. Three different appearances and they're not the same. The first one, the blue of the sky is appearing to be blue.

That's the easy one. The sky is appearing blue. Then secondly, that blueness is appearing as if it were a outer object.

You know, oh look, the sky's up there. I wish I could fly to the sky, you see what I mean? And then there's a difference between, okay, ta-ne juk-pay juk-shir.

That's a very, very important mind-only, it should be, it's a mantra, it's one of those mantras. Say ta-ne juk-pay juk-shir.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
This is what I call coffee cup. This is what I call coffee cup. That's coffee cup, ta-ne juk-pay juk-shir.

The thing to which the term coffee cup is applied when I apply. See, I mean they repeat juk. Ta-ne juk-pay juk-shir.

Juk also means cockroach in Yiddish, so it's a good word. Ta-ne juk-pay juk-shir. Ta-ne juk-pay juk-shir.

The basis which receives the label when we give a label, something like that, the thing which receives the label when we give a label. We have that concept in Madhyamika, highest Madhyamika, the parts of the pen are given the name pen, but more than the name, in the highest interpretation, the luminous picture comes out of the seed and is applied to the parts of the pen. Terms.

We call it term, but it's not a word.

[Speaker 2]
It's a picture.

[Speaker 1]
It's a mental picture. So when they say in Middle Way that things are just labels, a label is a picture coming out of the karmic seed, and if you know that, you can easily be a real philosopher of Buddhism. If you don't know that, you will forever wander around, and very few people know that.

When you say ming dey shak tsam, just established in words and terms, the term refers to a picture coming out of the mental seed. The game is not names, the game is mental pictures, because that's what comes out of karmic seeds. There might be a mental picture of a name, but that's just a word.

Ming dey tak tsam.

[Speaker 2]
Ming dey tak tsam.

[Speaker 1]
Ming dey tak tsam and tok dey tak tsam. Do you say shak tsam? Ming dey shak tsam.

Or tak tsam. Tok dey tak tsam. You can say ming dey tak tsam.

You can say that. But that's the same.

[Speaker 2]
It means the same thing as tok dey tak tsam.

[Speaker 1]
With shak. Well, that tokpa is the... Applied.

The tokpa is no ass, and it means the mental image. It doesn't mean tokpa without an ass. It's a wrong idea.

But... What's shak? What's that?

Establish. Joke. Joke.

Past tense of joke. Joke. Okay.

Establish this existing shak. Anyway, I wanted to point out here, and I think I didn't do it exactly right last time. I wanted to point out here that the third one, the third appearance, is not...

You didn't get yet to self-existence of things in the mind-only state. He didn't get there yet. He's not there yet.

The third one is not that. It's just that... He didn't say, juk pey juk shir rang gi tsen yi kyi bupa.

He didn't say, exist by itself. He didn't say that. He just said, this is what I call car.

This is what I call blue. This guy is what I'm giving the name, blue. That's the third thing that appears to you.

If someone said, what are you calling blue? You say, oh, it's this guy. Now, if he thought it had to be called blue, then in this school, that's half of thinking things are self-existent.

What's the other half? Thinking that things outside themselves are really coming from you.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, the second one.

[Speaker 1]
The second one. Got it? So you've got the two mind-only...

You're setting up here for the two mind-only versions of self-existence of things. One, it's an outside thing. I'm not watching my own mind.

I'm not watching pictures in my own mind, in the Krishna. I'm not watching pictures So this is where his text marries her text. Okay?

Because we're studying relationships downstairs. And then, the third one is, and by the way, when you say, this is what I give names to, this is what I call coffee cup, we always divide it into two. Loa and Kipa.

Yeah? And Kipa. And Kipa.

Kipa is the essence and the attributes.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Detail also. Loa means the big one. Coffee cup.

Kipa means the details. This is the... And traditionally, those are three.

Did you say characteristic for Kipa as well?

[Speaker 2]
You can say.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. You can say that. Feature.

Feature. Yeah. Anyway.

Yeah. Traditionally, there's three. This is the starting of the cup.

This is the staying of the cup. This is the ending of the cup. Okay?

It's not like, this is the cup that's round, or it has a bigger lip. Those are not the classic characteristics of the cup. In this case.

Okay? So, so far, I don't think, I mean, I'll tell you something interesting. Which of these are false, as they stand now?

[Speaker 2]
The outer object.

[Speaker 1]
There's three ways of appearing, and how many of them are false, so far? In one school. Right.

In mind only. Two is false. Two is definitely false.

Yeah. Because he mentioned Chiru. Oh, yeah.

That's directly addressing the cup. How many others are false? Three is also false.

Three is not false yet. That's what I'm trying to say.

[Speaker 2]
No, I see.

[Speaker 1]
Nobody said, Ranggit-seng-git-drupa. Nobody said, has to be what I call. It just says, what I call.

[Speaker 2]
I mean, it is what you call.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, yeah. Nobody said, It is the thing that has to be applied to it. Taniguchi, Jigshi, or Ranggit-seng-git-drupa.

Nobody said that yet.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
That it had to be what I call cup.

[Speaker 2]
Right.

[Speaker 1]
And it has to be what I call blue. He didn't say that. Right.

It just appears to you that that's what I'm calling blue, the sky. That works. Not a problem.

Now, did he just leave out self-existence, or did he really mean not to say? I don't know. Let's see.

[Speaker 2]
Dante, does mind only accept by definition?

[Speaker 1]
Just to break down all three. Just to break down into that. Oh, let's go.

Okay. When you... Okay, this blue of the sky, it's a visible thing.

And it has the qualities of starting that visible things have. Acceptor, meaning staying and stopping. He didn't mention it.

And it is the thing to which I can apply these terms. What? This is visible form, which is low, or this is the starting of visible form, this is the middle of a visible form.

Okay? It is what you can apply those terms to. Okay, these are archaic.

This is a blue to which I can apply those terms. Whether it's the essential nature, or the characteristics. Okay.

But nobody here in number three yet said it had to be what I call blue. That's the problem. It's not that you call it blue.

It's not that this is what I call blue. You can call Neil Young's music the best in the universe. That's okay.

But if you think it has to be called the best in the universe, then you have a problem.

[Speaker 2]
I don't know.

[Speaker 1]
Maybe not.

[Speaker 2]
So there is three ways in which a mental consciousness Well, a consciousness of the I. Consciousness of the I, sorry. In my mind I was saying the I.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, that's okay.

[Speaker 2]
No, no, no. Where do I throw in this?

[Speaker 1]
And this is the setup, right? This line is the setup. When a person who knows about names.

[Speaker 2]
Is it about names?

[Speaker 1]
Suppose they weren't a dajang gi gyur bu. Would there be a problem? Which one of these three would be a problem?

If you said si ni, si ni. Si ni. Si ni.

Si ni. Si ni. Is that the pronunciation of definition?

[Speaker 2]
Si ni. Si ni.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, it's Russian? Shtoz natchin. We're all like...

All three of them. Shtoz natchin. Mozhna.

Ponglishki.

[Speaker 2]
All three of them.

[Speaker 1]
It's the blue of the sky. It's the Russian for the blue of the sky. Okay, so you're not a dajang gi gyur bu.

You're not a person who's familiar with that term. Okay, if you weren't, you wouldn't think the third one here. You couldn't think the third one here.

[Speaker 2]
That's what we call si ni. So, dajang gi gyur bu here just means someone who knows the word blue yeah exactly okay someone who

[Speaker 1]
knows the word yeah okay because the third one couldn't happen if they were

[Speaker 2]
not the first one just involves their concept of blue and not a word from I'm

[Speaker 1]
because the third one's the only one dealing with names according you know here in the mind only school here wearing the mind only hat he's starting that he's careful to start with that here well we have our mind only hats on when a person who knows where the words involved like blue looks at something which is blue when they look at something it wishes blue literally it says when they look at blue but I think in in a translation it might be smoother to say when they look at something which is blue there are three images come up in their mind I wouldn't say appearances or something like that we don't say that when I said schmuck did the image of your ex-husband come up in your mind you know we don't say did you have an appearance of your ex-husband you know I mean we don't use language like that did you have an image come up in your mind well what well there's three images that come up in your mind you know the blue an image

[Speaker 2]
of blue comes in your mind yeah I get the three parts I don't know how the end

[Speaker 1]
so this is the subject of the sentence is up here when a guy who knows what he's talking about knows the words involved looks at something blue well then the three images come up in their mind what are they number one the blue they have an image in their mind of this thing as blue right number two you have an image of their mind as of this thing as an outer object and number three they have an

[Speaker 2]
image in their mind that this is what I call blue I consciousness yeah that's

[Speaker 1]
the other part of the country it's in the it's in the other part of the country he's he's trying to you're close you're really hot I'm about to lose 50 bucks here's here's the what he said was but we're talking about a sense consciousness are you telling me the sense consciousness misunderstand yes as opposed to consciousness yeah I mean the the mental consciousness can say whoa look outside blue but that's not what we're saying because we're saying the sense consciousness are contained inside the country they're the objects they're in a room there's three groups in the room with the three parts the objects the powers the powers and the block shots that's really got two nasty poisons there's two ladies they're serving martinis to see things that stuff existed in the seat to see people and because those two ladies he was saying box out to me he was trying to get there I knew I might lose some money on that okay that's the point that was his he was

[Speaker 2]
uncomfortable with that that's what he was trying to say and then the gear way moon for appears as sorry we come to the icon oh it appears to be there's the

[Speaker 1]
Daniel Graham case it appears to be what we give the name to it appears to be what we give the name to please don't say foundation or basis of the name I mean who says that this is what I call cut I don't say this is the foundation of what if you want your reader to misunderstand it use that language this is the foundation of what I call this is the thing I give the name cut that's even better this is the thing I give the name cut to juicier okay all right okay let's start the class

[Speaker 2]
oh boy he'll bow she's okay time a jay-pack hopa ones in mixture they're

[Speaker 1]
on top key jenji this is nasty I think it's the hibernating bear thing but I'm not sure let's go piece by piece okay why okay why why do you get those three images in your mind okay we're not going to say appearances right why do you get those three images in your mind well yes that interesting mistake the way that yeah the I consciousness gets a an image of blue okay hearing in his mind he that luminous okay Dimi tempe you teaching me it's because it's actually in memory I don't know if this is the Abhidharma thing of the the eye the physical eye power the cells at the back of the eye detect blue and then there's a time gap between that and the awareness of blue right okay so I don't know if that's being called like a memory you see when the blue makes its appearance to the awareness of the eye okay what's really happening is that it's an object of that I consciousness is memory it's recalling blue timber okay change de la gente this Shen normally has negative connotations of Shen you well you can say attachment in the normal but here it means believe right in a wrong way it believes something in a wrong way so I'm just saying that you know I'm trying to struggle through this sentence I'm trying to take small bites okay normally Shambhala is mistaken okay it it feels something about it that's really what Shambhala it has a feeling you know the implication is a wrong feeling. It feels something about it. You can say belief but belief is almost too much for an eye consciousness to do in a millisecond you know it it takes it out it has a feeling about it you can say that you can take that okay shinte and then it says the let's go down here okay the eye consciousness which is perceptive with the Latin kept you kept immediately grabbing which is there's a nice English word Oh yeah that's it blue it's apprehending blue okay it's kept you on in Latin you know it's we have the same thing perception comes from grasping okay when the eye consciousness apprehends blue okay then it pulls up then okay automatically without thought automatically it automatically pulls up things so it pulls up this topa this idea well this I would say idea here yeah so far it's just idea that gives names that applies names okay it pulls up an idea that applies names such as this is blue this is the beginning of the blue etc let's so let's do it in pieces again okay because I'm not clear either this part is easier okay subject of the sentence and wins in Michigan the eye consciousness which is apprehending blue okay it pulls up of its own accord what an idea topa what is the idea it's an idea which gives names to things gives terms to things applies terms on tiny chick it's an it's an idea which applies terms to things well what kind of terms it says this is blue or this is the beginning of the blue etc terms like that it applies terms that's the result what happened before that is the first part of this okay the the way in which the eye consciousness okay how is it that to eye consciousness the blue makes its appearance okay and then it treats it as an object of memory or okay we called and it and it believes that I think so yeah or you can say attached to believes in it I mean you

[Speaker 2]
always say that if there's a word for believe you can say believe I think I

[Speaker 1]
mean hankers is the real one okay I would say feel because it doesn't seem like there's time for it to state a belief it believes seems to be too consciousness automatically has some kind of feeling okay that's all I can say on that I think let's go on and see if we get more clarification what would logically be the if we didn't look at the words you know what's what's supposed to be going on yeah how could that relate to memory because we don't because we don't see right according well you're having an

[Speaker 2]
embarrassing I sees a little something and then you index a bunch of memories

[Speaker 1]
that you have a blue and slap them onto that thing it almost seems like the the eye your awareness of your eye always automatically starts slapping names on okay that seems to be the process first it appears as blue and then it appears as another thing and then you hear words about it this is blue they're talking about the third one even before the mind gets involved the awareness of the mind the in the mind only school the awareness of blue is already saying this a little part of the awareness of blue is giving names to things already the awareness of blue is automatically calling up Gemba mm-hmm there's these little namers don't you know tiny jippers who are applying names to this image already oh this is blue you're in your mind you're thinking this is blue and and somewhere deep buried in your text is the idea that the consciousness of the mind applies names remember yeah it's function is to apply names it's in your text anyway I think what this is talking about is the automatic the automatic tendency of the perception of blue to give it a name this is blue I'm seeing blue okay it's taught that's what it's talking about

[Speaker 2]
it's talking about the third kind of appearance image I believe this whole

[Speaker 1]
paragraph is about the third one oh well it's about the process the process first blue appears to you then you think oh yeah oh there's an outside object and in some part of your eye awareness makes a sentence right this is blue yeah and somehow that's based on a memory well I think what he's saying is here the verb gen meant the I aware that I consciousness elicits pulls up right this idea this is blue it pulls it automatically pulls up this sentence this is blue here's the past tense of gen this gen and this gen are connected okay this is the present tense pulls up and this is pulled up you know the object pulled up it doesn't have to be the the noun from memory it could be a past tense of Paula which is the object which is pulled up let's sit with it okay let's sit with it it took two two classes to get the last part blue is a object and I hear my mind say this is blue and now I think we're getting more detail about how we hear the mindset but let's come back to it I think it'll be

[Speaker 2]
too slow it's okay it's okay let's get it right please please keep going you know Sheldon buffet good long people but make sure they thought you

[Speaker 1]
don't know so he's still talking about this concept of pull up an idea or elicit an idea okay so maybe that'll help us do the last part okay and we'll just keep talking to you and then go back no more should you be doing they if you ask okay if you inquire if you inquire what is the law as opposed to the kippa what is the essential nature of this object meaning the yeah good when you say blue yeah blue shades you up when you say blue then what's the nature of the thing you're talking about what's the nature of the thing you're calling blue okay if you ask now here's the the verb for to give an answer okay so someone answers okay who answers Kunalonghi topa that gets nasty anyway yeah let's go to the beginning of this sentence these are nasty okay ones in mixture is okay which apprehends blue okay la to it to that I'm consciousness the way in which blue appears okay nobody's done knowing Noah the way in which blue appears okay dingy la shiny it believes it maybe it's talking about other object I don't know I consciousness believes it it falls for it okay and then it it responds to the mental question oh what's the nature of what we're looking at it says I'll tell you what's the nature of what we're looking at this is something visible this you want to know what's the nature of this thing we're looking at right now which is blue okay it belongs to the category of this is sook as the first of the objects in the in the country not it's not so because the first of the five okay visible stuff sometimes I translate it as colors and shapes yeah yeah this is a kind of visible thing you know this is a kind of visible thing okay someone gives an answer someone asked a question you know what's the nature of this thing we're looking at okay that's the question up here and somebody gives a lend-up somebody gives an answer and they say oh the nature of this thing we're looking at is that it's visible it's something visible this blue as it appears to us now as we're perceiving blue as we apprehend blue now here's some kind of wrong idea they need less shin it takes it as it is it wants to take it as it is it so it believes in it it believes that it believes it so I I wish it had said outer object or something okay it believes it somehow okay what the mixture believes in the blue somehow and then it says that what he doesn't say what it believes it just says it believes it I think it believes that the second and third of the numbskulls that it's an outer object and that although he didn't say it that it had to be comfortable it's what we call blue meaning in the sense of it had to be it's had to be what we call blue Neil young had to be called good music okay anyway there has to be some wrong thing going on if Shannon's here I believe so if I were gonna translate right now you know I'd say okay when you say blue then what's the nature of the thing you're talking about question somebody asked a question if you ask now somebody gets an answer when when the I consciousness which is apprehending blue has a feeling about the blue appearing to it okay and it actually talks to itself and says this is something visible and I think that implies our and I think it implies have to be called what it's called okay gapa good why he mentions cool oh yeah I have no idea it almost attributes motivation to the perception of blue okay cool long to Topa okay so Topa is normally a wrong idea why he calls it cool on this might be just a verb of elicit Kundalini yeah yeah maybe it's not motivation necessarily it pulls forth a little bit it pulls forth it gives this answer it raises this answer could be long about I'd say something like this idea gives its answer this idea proposes an answer that's what I this idea in your mind proposes an answer I'd say could look and that proposal is is elicited by the I consciousness itself it has that power it has the power to do so yeah to look to elicit this idea that says oh this is what we call blue okay this is what we call this this is a visible one identifies it because it has the power let's go one more sentence just so we'll have something to cook for next time it's possible what makes you think that

[Speaker 2]
because I believe blah blah right they usually put a cheer yeah I want to go

[Speaker 1]
more sentences really fast you didn't get much satisfaction to me oh I do have time Dana I'm just gonna speak through this because this is I can understand which makes me feel better they're not losing machine aluminum we would say therefore okay and so it's good if we read that therefore maybe we'll therefore when something therefore when blue appears as blue okay Luma Luma Noah yeah when say okay therefore when blue appears as blue to the I consciousness which is proceeding which is apprehending blue okay it doesn't think okay it doesn't think this is mean they shop some there's the shock yes this is not yeah the leech a says this is definitely not just something I'm living it's not coming from me it doesn't exist just in names and terms and we know that term means that's the important one the name is not so

[Speaker 2]
important important should we take the liberty as far as translating no because

[Speaker 1]
that's one of those things that's revealed later yeah by the way when we've been saying term all these six months it means picture there's somewhere in here he'll say that or you can put it in a footnote but keep the revelations let the author do yeah yeah it's not okay when when blue appears as blue to the I consciousness which is apprehending blue it doesn't think oh this is just a result of a picture coming out of my my car makes these it doesn't think that okay it thinks wrong he made sookie moon a duper it's coming from its own side okay it's coming about from the from the side money okay mommy's face mommy's face from this side yeah of its own of its own nature the way it sits okay called nature make some is wrong she something okay the way it sits yeah okay so this is just coming from its own nature it's not that I'm calling it something okay he didn't specifically say wrong when a duper existing from its own side he didn't say that he just said this is existing from the side of its own nature but it implies that okay do if I'm going on so you're part shape a when you understand this process of how blue appears to the consciousness of blue okay when you understand this process you understand what we mean when we say the mind thinks it has to be called a cup right when you understand this process you understand in the mind only school the self-existence of things in the form of this must be what I call this is what I call cup automatically okay if you understand this process of all those three kinds of blue appearing blah blah blah then then you understand what it is in this school for a thing to be called what it is automatically which is the half of their version of the self-existence of things let's read this

[Speaker 2]
sentence so I'll just read it fast don't think too much this is what we mean

[Speaker 1]
when we say that blue is appearing to the awareness of blue as if it had to be called blue automatically may I point out my original complaint see this Ranggit-sena kidrupa had to be called had to be what we call he didn't say that in the third thing there's no Ranggit-sena kidrupa here it would life would have been easier if there had been okay but this dim here doesn't mean object okay it means that's what we mean when we say something is appearing to be what we call blue automatically in and of itself Ranggit-sena kidrupa can be in and of itself it must have been it must be what we call blue it must be called blue it must be called best music in the in the universe and and again as I said the other day this is the root of much conflict in the world my version of what this is called is the only one time's up Keshava I want to just throw in this because it makes me feel better and I'll spend more time with it and you spend more time with it data now don't go in a in bay that's the way it is but hey let's face it this is a tough point okay he's giving us some points like this is hard to understand okay and the only people who could ever understand it don't me the only people who are who could ever understand it are people who have the capacity to draw their thoughts within they can look within themselves and they can use their Viveka they can use their discrimination they can turn it on themselves and try to detect what the hell's going on when you look at blue yeah right those are only people who are gonna get this you go home you look at put a blue thing in front of you like put the TV on blue and spend some time watching inside yourself what happens only those people don't knew already they will be able to understand this points because they're so difficult but if you don't want to do that if you just want to read a book you know and depend on the words of another person you're gonna make it yeah he says you know you're gonna have to go home and try to figure it out by looking at blue things and an introspection low low number chokpa means introspection cool okay and you're not gonna get you're gonna get tied up in words don't just rely on other people's words these just trying to make us feel better I don't feel that much better maybe maybe go home and try to detect what you hear in your mind