Медитации на пустоту: объяснение шагов к пониманию того, что ничто не является самим собой, занятие 17

[Speaker 1]
So I spent a couple of hours on this last night also. It isn't hard. So here we go.

Venerable Utpa has reached the mind-only section. We just finished the lower middle way. Just to remind you, her book is called Dhakti, which means what?

[Speaker 2]
Tea.

[Speaker 1]
We had tea the other day.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, oh, it's coiled.

[Speaker 1]
It's a rope.

[Speaker 2]
Rail trains.

[Speaker 1]
Chi means a teaching, a teaching.

[Speaker 2]
Like pechi.

[Speaker 1]
No, that's different.

[Speaker 2]
That's a term.

[Speaker 1]
That's K-H-R-I. This is K-H-R-I-D. Chi means a teaching.

And then you often say pechi if you want to say... If you say, I'm going to my lama's teaching, you don't call it tea. You call it pechi.

Pecha. Yeah, chape. Okay.

That's a nice idiom. Chape. Chape?

Chape. Book party? It's an honorific book.

Chak.

[Speaker 2]
Chakpe.

[Speaker 1]
A high word for hand. Then the low word, you switch it. Pecha.

Pecha. Oh.

[Speaker 2]
Chape.

[Speaker 1]
Pecha Gergen. He's my scripture teacher. Chapeki.

Lopan or something. He teaches.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Anyway. Sumbanyi. You want to read, please?

[Speaker 2]
Sumbanyi. SEMS SANGS PA'I LUS KYI GANG ZAG GIS DGOS BTAGS MED NYID NGAR SHES ZIN PA LTAR YIN NA Yeah. ZIN PA.

ZIN PA.

[Speaker 1]
Low tone S. L. So when you see Z, forget Z.

It's low tone S. ZIN. So never think Z for Z.

It's just an S sound. Why do you use a Z? It's to distinguish it from the normal tone.

That's all. It has nothing to do with the Z. ZIN.

ZIN PA.

[Speaker 2]
ZIN PA.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. SEMS SANGS PA'I LUS KYI GANG ZAG GIS DGOS BTAGS MED NYID Now if we're going to talk about... ZIN PA means he's going to explain the mainomi system.

And he starts out by saying...

[Speaker 2]
The selflessness of a person.

[Speaker 1]
About the lack of a self to a person, it's the same as I said before. I don't have to go into that. I mentioned it already.

So I went to find it. I tried to go find where did he mention it. And I think it's here.

And this is something we translated in the first term, I think. There is no difference between followers of the lower... Nowadays I'll say branch.

Of the middle school and those of the schools below them. They all think that it's the subtle lack of self in nature to a person. It's the emptiness where that person avoided being substantial.

So all this RANG RGYAL THUG PA'I ZE YOD, RANG RGYAL THUG PA'I ZE YOD, substantial in the sense of self standing, that we just got through tearing apart for the lower middle school, is also accepted by the mainomi school as the lack of a self nature to people. So they agree on the lack of a self nature to people, which is in maindom. They don't agree on what's the lack of a self nature to things.

But he says, I don't have to cover the lack of a self nature to people because it's what I told you before. And this is what he told you before. In the bold.

Would you footnote the brief or just say it? I would, because by now the reader is totally lost.

[Speaker 2]
Can you dare drop me a copy of this please?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, you're going to need it actually. I was going to do that, and I forgot. I keep updating the date just so we're all sure it's another one.

[Speaker 2]
Thank you.

[Speaker 1]
You're welcome. So what's he got to do now? What's his job?

[Speaker 2]
Talk about the selflessness of things?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, what is the lack of a self nature to things? Please read if you're not busy. You're busy?

Okay. She's putting stuff into the jumper.

[Speaker 2]
It's tricky. I'm sorry. Good.

[Speaker 1]
I'm sorry.

[Speaker 2]
Good.

[Speaker 1]
I would check this bowl in the scan. It might be wrong. By the way, look at these mistakes.

I mean, it's bizarre. We've got to have another copy from St. Petersburg. We need it desperately.

This text is a disaster. And it takes many hours to fix it. It's a real disaster.

Look at this. One, two, three, four, five, six mistakes in just these three lines. The carving was a bad print.

The inking was bad. And the typist was on meth. Okay.

So this is going to be... Now, my lonely school has an idea of kundak. Shenwang kundak yongduk.

Say shenwang. Shenwang kundak yongduk. This is one of the pillars of my lonely school.

Shenwang kundak yongduk. We talked about it in Shenzhen last time. Shenwang...

Nowadays I like to call it dominated things. I've spent many years thinking about a single word that might give it. And shen...

What does dominated mean in a political sense?

[Speaker 2]
You're under the power of.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, you're under someone else's power. Like, I don't know, this department of government dominates this department of government or something like that. So that's the idea of shenwang.

Shengyi wang means under the power of others. But it means that your life is run by somebody else. So it means that's a synonym for what in the my lonely school?

Changing things. Yeah, changing things. Because they are at the mercy of their causes.

If the causes were out, they have to change. If the causes change, they have to change. So that's called shenwang.

Then people think that they are self-existent in some way. And people imagine that they are self-existent in some way. And that's called kuntak.

To imagine. Kuntak means imaginary in the my lonely school. Meaning you fantasize something about them which is not true.

For example, you might believe that they are an outer object when they're not. And that would be kuntak. The idea that they are an outer object would be a fantasy or an imaginary.

Fancy. Sometimes I call it fantasies. Kuntak, okay?

Now... Then there's a formula. Stanley, that's what we called it last time.

There's a formula, okay? Yeah, an equation. Shenwang minus kuntak equals...

[Speaker 2]
Yongduk.

[Speaker 1]
Yongduk, okay? So yongduk can mean the conclusion of a process. You know, the outcome.

It can mean outcome of a process. So in this school, emptiness is called the outcome. If you take...

If you take these existing, changing things and you subtract wrong ideas about them, you come out. That process is establishing emptiness. Okay?

So the word kuntak in this school as opposed to other schools where it might mean inborn, sorry, learned as opposed to inborn, right? We have kuntak as opposed to feng shui. It's not what it means here.

So be careful with kuntaks. There's like five different kuntaks. First of all, this is not the kuntak in learned wrong view as it is in his book.

In his book, kuntak is always opposed to... Gen kye. Gen kye.

Sujato. Gen inu. Inborn.

It doesn't mean that. It doesn't mean a learned view. And in this discussion today, it's not referring to the kuntak as the zennyisung, as the three qualities of the mind-only system.

He's not talking about that kuntak, which is frustrating. He's on a different kuntak.

[Speaker 2]
Okay?

[Speaker 1]
So just be aware.

[Speaker 2]
So the one you just gave us is the kuntak of the zennyisung?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. It is. Okay.

But not the one he's using today.

[Speaker 2]
And so the thing that's important about the kuntak is not necessarily that it's a mental image, but that it's a wrong idea about the shen wong.

[Speaker 1]
In that school. In this school. Right.

You can say that. It's a fantasy. Meaning it's unfounded.

It's wrong. It's a wrong idea. It's a wrong image.

It's an idea you have about things which is incorrect. So kuntak in that case means it's just attributed. You see, just attributed.

We call him that, but it's not really. Okay? It means just call him that.

Now that's getting similar to this one here today. So there's an idea of ngo dang kye par la kuntapy kuntak. Say ngo.

[Speaker 2]
Ngo. Dang.

[Speaker 1]
Kye par la. Kye par la. Kuntapy kuntak.

[Speaker 2]
Kuntapy kuntak.

[Speaker 1]
And this kuntak might end up in Rondo, but we're not going to go there yet. So it's an idea about something where you attribute it. You attribute to it a basic nature and characteristics.

Characteristics. Okay? So, like if it was a, I don't know, bumpa, its basic nature would be round belly, flat bottom.

It has the function to, you know. But its qualities might be that it's a gold collar or something like that. Other qualities on it.

So one is its definition almost, its basic nature. And one is its qualities. And he's going to give an example.

We'll get there. Kuntapy kuntak. Where you label a thing with a label about its nature and its qualities.

Where you label a thing with a label about its nature and its qualities.

[Speaker 2]
So it's a gerund and one is a...

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Attributed. Attributing attributes.

I said attributed. Attributed attributes. If you want to confuse the reader.

[Speaker 2]
Which he does.

[Speaker 1]
What's SW? Sorry?

[Speaker 2]
What's SW?

[Speaker 1]
Oh, that's my... When I write a note to myself, I have an opinion that's unfounded in scripture. It's SWAN.

It's short for SWAN. It's an old thing I used to use.

[Speaker 2]
It's a SWAN?

[Speaker 1]
Huh? It's a SWAN? It's a SWAN?

It just means it's a note to myself. RANG GI TSE NI KYI MA GRUB PA So, the fact that basic natures and qualities are only attributed, right? Okay.

And I take this as a deposit and I will have to work with it. The fact that they don't exist in and of themselves. RANG GI TSE NI KYI MA GRUB PA By definition.

In English we can say by definition. So that's their first version of their emptiness of things in this school. What's this school?

[Speaker 2]
Mind-Only School.

[Speaker 1]
Mind-Only School. And it doesn't go to the three characteristics. It just goes to something else.

It goes to attributing basic nature and identifying qualities to a thing.

[Speaker 2]
Is this the second flavor?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, that's a good question. And I'm going to throw a bomb at you. This is the one about names.

The thing given the name and the name given to it are not self-existent. You could have called a rose a car and it would smell the same. A rose by any other name would be the same.

That's the punchline here. He's talking about naming.

[Speaker 2]
Is that a bomb? Well, it's a long story.

[Speaker 1]
Names are not given self-existently. If people understood that, a lot of the trouble in the world would be avoided. Like calling this bad or calling this good.

That's a perception. It's not inherent. The name bad doesn't necessarily imply Trump or something.

I mean, it's possible something good is coming. He's not self-existently the recipient of that name. Or you could have called this a fish.

And if people understood that, there'd be a lot less miscommunication in the world. And they'd speak. Different people use different names, don't worry about it.

Don't start having a war with some country because you named things differently.

[Speaker 2]
I mean, that's the point.

[Speaker 1]
And specifically, does the object given the name exist in and of itself? As an object given that name. So obviously you could take both parts.

The namer and the naming, the name. But the emphasis in this school is what's the nature of the object that's given the name. Does it exist in and of itself?

As an object being called something. So we're describing the mind-only view of emptiness.

[Speaker 2]
And we're using the word...

[Speaker 1]
Of the emptiness of states.

[Speaker 2]
Because we already handle people. Right. And we're using kuntak twice.

But you're saying this is not kuntak in the sense of the three attributes.

[Speaker 1]
Right.

[Speaker 2]
It's similar, right?

[Speaker 1]
I mean, there's obviously similarities. But this is not a discussion of the three attributes. It's not going there.

And that's confusing. Kuntak, which is being kuntaks, is basically kuntak as in the three attributes. Well, I don't know if everything attributed is the second attribute.

[Speaker 2]
The first attribute?

[Speaker 1]
I wouldn't say kuntak is shiriena, kuntayin vikram. Sen yi sung gi kuntayin vikram.

[Speaker 2]
You don't know...

[Speaker 1]
Just because something is labeled may not necessarily mean it's the second of the three characteristics of the mind-only school.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
But that label... But that's not going there.

[Speaker 2]
Okay. And before you said kuntak as opposed to drangdok, or was it that they're the same? You mentioned kuntak and drangdok.

[Speaker 1]
No, I'm just saying his kuntak here is going to tend towards drangdok.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
But we'll get there.

[Speaker 2]
And they're related.

[Speaker 1]
The verb is the same. Mdok is the present tense of ta.

[Speaker 2]
That's what I thought.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Okay. By the way, he slips in a second easier emptiness.

Yeah. And this requires your appreciation that the word dolpa, or dolwa, or whatever it was, requires the use of the instrumental. In English, it requires the genital.

His speech was empty of content. And in English, in Tibetan, you have to say empty by content. You have to use the instrumental.

So the gaccha is going to be the thing that comes just before the ki. Just before the instrumental. When you say empty of content, the gaccha was meaningful content of his speech.

[Speaker 2]
Form and sounds and such are empty of meaning.

[Speaker 1]
So in Buddhism, and when we express the six flavors, the last three syllables are always ki dolwa. Empty of. Okay?

Empty of. And dolwa is the more normal form, so I would check the scan. Although tomba is acceptable variant, but less literary.

Okay, so dolwa makes it into a verb. Empty of. And dolpa is always emptiness.

And then sometimes it's misused as dolwa. So I don't know which one he's using here. But what I think is empty of, go back to the kis, to the instrumental, and look at what's in front of it.

So in English, it would be the reverse. Empty of content. So what's...

Chitin. Yeah, chitin.

[Speaker 2]
Outer objects.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, your interpretation depended on mispronouncing it in your head. Okay.

[Speaker 2]
That's S-P-Y-I.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, chitin. It's not chitin. And that happens a lot.

So you've got to pronounce things in your head properly. And you have to learn to pronounce them in your head properly.

[Speaker 2]
So it sounds in forms of S-P-Y-I?

[Speaker 1]
No, you said general. Okay, so things like visible form. Again, because we're talking about the object of the eye power, I would refer to it as visible form.

Because otherwise it can be mixed up with the first of the five skandhas. Which includes all forms. All kinds of forms.

So I think normally you'd have to be careful to maybe add visible. Because when you see dra, it means this one must have been visible form. Yeah, things like visible forms and sounds are empty of what?

Being. Nice. Okay, nice.

Got it? Everything okay? That's a second and easier form of the emptiness of things in the mind of the school.

And he's not going to spend much time on it. He's more interested in the one that he spent two lines on.

[Speaker 2]
With the fact that the tongpa is at the end of the sentence and ends with an au, wouldn't that indicate that it should be a verb?

[Speaker 1]
Given that there's no other verb that comes in there? Yeah, if there's an instrument in front of it. If there's an instrument in front of it.

But it's not a kama. Some people use tongpa phun tongpa. You've got to check the skand.

And I spent a lot of time with the skand last night. It's not that bad. It's not like a disaster.

I think the tapas just has shamo in it. It's doable. But it'd be nice to have a better one.

Okay. This one was a trip. Okay, here we go.

[Speaker 2]
dingy ka'ang ka'ang, ka'ang First ka'ang, ka'ang.

[Speaker 1]
Now, don't say kor kor.

[Speaker 2]
Say kor lo kor lo par be par be kor lo par be den dun den dun yin bar kor lo par Yeah, yin bar.

[Speaker 1]
kor lo par me du par du Big mistakes. Impossible mistakes to figure out. It took like an hour.

Bizarre mistakes. Incredible mistakes. Anyway, I'm so smart.

dingy ka'ang Both of these... Both of these what?

[Speaker 2]
These types of emptiness.

[Speaker 1]
Good.

[Speaker 2]
Of things.

[Speaker 1]
Good. Both of these emptinesses of things that I just talked about, they say, du, they say, go to the end, they say they are what the Buddha was trying to teach during the parpa kor lo. Yeah, during the middle of the sutra.

According to them, that's what he was really talking about when he taught the Heart Sutra and the Diamond Cutter Sutra and things like that. Yin be And this is wrong. And it just bothered me and then finally I figured it out.

It should be yin par.

[Speaker 2]
Yin par.

[Speaker 1]
Because this is dru. So dru means to prove something is something. To prove something is something.

And it requires a dingy grammar case. It requires ar. But the way he, the way they mistyped it, this becomes the reason for that.

And it doesn't make sense. It subtly doesn't make sense. So it's really bad.

It's a really, really bad mistyping. And then I found the carving and it's an ar. So what's it say now?

So forget this space. It doesn't make any sense. Ultimately it's confusing.

They say, duh, that these two, thanks Siri, are established. Now go here instead of up there. If it had been bas, you would have had to go up here.

But because it's not bas, you can stay down here. Those two, moreover, ga'ang, moreover, they believe are established by the final karma, by the last turning of the wheel, as being the tendon of the parva. I will give you a high five, but we'll hit the shelving.

Cool, that's cool. Now that it's all fixed. Okay, so they say, they say the third turning of the wheel proves that those two were what Buddha was talking about in the second turning of the wheel.

Because my lonely school says which turning of the wheel is correct? Yeah, the third. And specifically, they believe that the third turning of the wheel was correct in correcting the second turning of the wheel.

Or clarifying the second turning of the wheel. So in their opinion, the second turning of the wheel was too radical. And then Lord Buddha clarified in the third turning of the wheel that he didn't exactly mean what he said in the second turning of the wheel.

What's the Buddha's own position on which wheel was correct?

[Speaker 2]
All of them, depending on who's listening.

[Speaker 1]
As expressed in the Saṃdhinirmocana Sutra, which is what we're studying in Shinju. Which is what you're understanding. In that sutra, he said three.

Yeah, in that sutra, somebody asked... There's ten questions, I think, asked by Bodhisattvas. And one of the questions is which one of the wheels is the real one?

And Buddha says, you know I was thinking about it, and you know I was really considering it. The one that I really meant what I said was the third. In that sutra.

When pressed by his direct student, Buddha, in that sutra, says the third one was the one I meant.

[Speaker 2]
Right. And was this student sort of scared of wheel number two?

[Speaker 1]
And then it takes people like Je Tsongkhapa to see. He didn't figure it out. Yeah, yeah.

He didn't... He was playing the same game in that sutra that he was playing during the third wheel.

[Speaker 2]
Right. If he says to you in the third wheel, I didn't mean it when I said the second wheel, then why are you going to trust him now when he says this time I mean it? Right.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, and to a higher... and to a stronger intellect, it makes that kind of sense. And to a lesser intellect, it's even getting worse.

You see what I mean? Alright. Okay, good.

Anyway, I'm still proud to figure that out.

[Speaker 2]
Thank you, Geshe-la.

[Speaker 1]
Now he's misspelled the names of a bunch of famous books. Or miscarred. So let's please read.

[Speaker 2]
GONG DRIL BYANG SA PHRAG DU DU BA SOG NAS ZHES PA'I DONG BRJE GNYIS KYIS LEGS SHES NYIN PO LAS BRTEN LA PHAGS PA BRTEN PHAGS PA This should be PHAGS PA because it's the past tense of what?

[Speaker 1]
BAD BAD BAD Yeah, make fall down BAD. Okay. Now he's going to explain what Je Tsongkapa explained is the meaning of a bunch of mind-only shastras.

Shastras? Shastras. Shastras, okay?

And the sutra where the Buddha clarified what he really meant. So he said, you could take what the Buddha said he meant and then you can take all the mind-only commentators on it and then you can take Je Tsongkapa explaining all those guys including the Buddha. And I'm going to give you Je Tsongkapa's summary.

Distillation. Distillation of the whole thing. So then I'm not very familiar with the mind-only literature.

We don't study it in the monastery except briefly during Tsongkapa. Actually it's not even part of the curriculum. So, I went and studied them for you and I got the correct names and stuff for you.

Okay. So in general, it's not a huge section of Ditinggir. If you consider that Ditinggir is 3,700 books, there's only 65 are mind-only.

So what percent is that? Sixty-one? It's 0.2%, or something like that. It's crazy. When do I get my talk downstairs?

[Speaker 2]
When do I get my talk downstairs? It's about one and a half.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, Nick, I need a printout of the shopping list before I go downstairs. Okay, be right out. I wasn't going to say it last time.

Sorry, yeah. Yeah, extern it and put it in a Word document and print a single page. I just need it in my pocket all day today.

[Speaker 2]
Because the numbers on the Word document weren't... I don't know if you adjusted anything.

[Speaker 1]
I didn't adjust anything.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, I'll print that out.

[Speaker 1]
Give me the worst case scenario. It's always better.

[Speaker 2]
Alright, I'll do that then. Can you give me the shopping list before you leave?

[Speaker 1]
That's a different shopping list. I know.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
So here's the books that he mentioned. GONG BRAL is DO DE GONG BRAL which is SANG DI MYUR MO CHA NYON NA SUTRA. And I used to have trouble with this pronunciation of the Sanskrit words.

SANG DI comes from di which means to think. Like di, di, di, di, di, di, di, di, di. So SANG DI means gongpa, means what I was really thinking.

SANG DI means gongpa, means what I was really thinking. MO CHA NYON comes from MOK SHA, which means to free or liberate. And MYUR MO CHA means untie or liberate.

So it means to comment on what I really meant. To untie, to unravel. It's really unravel.

What I really meant. So SANG DI, pause, MYUR MO CHA NYON NA. Okay.

And this is NYES, but before M it changes to R, but that's another, like Ayurveda. Okay, you guys okay? The second one, BYANG SA is...

BYANG CHUB SEMS PAS SA Yeah, BYANG CHUB SEMS PAS SA, which is a section, LAS, the Yogacara Bhumi. The Yogacara levels of yogic practice. Okay?

Levels of practice. So it's Bodhisattva Bhumi from the Yogacara Bhumi. And in the Sanskrit title, you'll see Yogacara Bhumao, which is the ablative, from the Yogacara Bhumi.

Bodhisattva Bhumi. It'll say Yogacara Bhumao Bodhisattva Bhumi. From the.

And that's by Arya Sangha. Then THEG DU is a... The name is a little frustrating because THEG DU CHEN PO BDE BA is a summary of the greater way.

Mahayana Sangraha. Actually, the next one is the one I'm thinking of. By Arya Sangha.

And then the third ten year book mentioned. Yeah, he calls it DU BA. Which is NAM PAR BSTAN LA AB PA'I DU BA Which is really NAM PAR BSTAN LA AB PA'I DU BA NAM PAR BSTAN LA AB PA'I DU BA Okay.

Anyway, it's a myth. Vinishchaya Sangraha. Vinishchaya Sangraha.

Setting forth. A summary of the setting forth. A summary of their presentation.

Of their presentation. Meaning, as found in the Yogacara Bhumi, it's another section in the Yogacara Bhumi. Called A Summary of Their Presentation.

Meaning, mine only. Okay? So there's the books for you.

And now, he's not only going to... See, the last word here is as Tsongkhapa set it forth, we're not done yet. We're going from Buddha to Asanga to Tsongkhapa to Kedarje.

Kedar Rinpoche in his tong tun.

[Speaker 2]
Tong tun.

[Speaker 1]
Interlude on Emptiness. Which I, you know, I was using it a lot for... I was going to teach the six flavors of emptiness.

And I got into the first flavor. And I wrote 200 pages of notes from Kedarje. And then I stopped because it's only the third of the first flavor.

I just didn't have time. I had to do contracts. You see, this is my life.

It was extremely important and I didn't have time. I couldn't do it. And I didn't teach it.

Because I had to do the contracts. So anyway...

[Speaker 2]
Maybe this is the end of all contracts. Yeah, I don't think so.

[Speaker 1]
Anyway, if you... So I'm going to take the way Kedarje, RGYAS PAR BZHED explain it in detail. But you know, that's too much for you guys.

I'll do it. I'll just give you the essence of it. I'll just summarize it in the essence.

So this sentence is becoming rather convoluted. I will give you the distilled essence of the expanded explanation of Kedarje in his Interlude on Emptiness in which he describes what was set forth by Je Tsongkapa in his Essence of Eloquence which itself explains the meaning of the the levels of the bodhisattva, the summary of the way, and the abbreviation, which all relate to the commentary on what I really meant spoken by Lloyd Brewer. That's your sentence.

He's tracing back where he got this. He just wants you to know where he got it from. Which is good manners.

That's why we do so many footnotes and stuff. That's your sentence. Don't make that a sentence.

Now, if this is the thing that I can refer to in two ways, I can say, A, I can talk about its essence. This is the thing that holds coffee. Or I can talk about its other characteristics.

It's wide. It's made of ceramic. So that I'm attributing a nature and qualities to this thing.

Nature meaning its main nature. Qualities meaning its other attributes. But when I talk about its nature or its qualities, how do I feel about the thing I'm describing?

You see, the thing I'm labeling. Do I feel it depends on the label somehow? Or do I feel that somehow it exists in and of itself?

Before I gave it the label, did it exist? In this school, well, in the two listener schools, he says, they would say that the thing I'm giving the name has always been there by itself. In and of itself.

Ranggitsa nyi gyi dupa. By definition, the thing you're attributing a nature and the thing you're attributing other qualities, the thing you're giving the qualities and the characteristics exists in and of itself. It was always there.

Then you came along and gave it a description of its basic nature and then its qualities. But it was always there. So, the two lower schools, which I gave here to you, cheda mawan do depa, to remind myself, listener schools, the two listener schools, they believe, and this is very important that this comment is not here.

It doesn't make any sense. Any kyi before a kamma means disjunction. And it's totally wrong here.

I fixed it here but you may not notice. If you read it as a kamma, it will take you half an hour to figure out what he's talking about. It doesn't belong here.

[Speaker 2]
So it's just a blotch?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, it's a blotch. But it's a bitch of a blotch. You're going to misread it for half an hour and then finally you're going to figure out he put a kamma where there's no kamma.

In this particular case, a kamma changes the meaning of the sentence erotically. It doesn't often do that. But it would here because it's the disjunctive genitive at the end of the phrase.

Okay?

[Speaker 2]
Is there a distinction between listener schools or self-included schools?

[Speaker 1]
No. Yeah, sorry, that's a good question.

[Speaker 2]
You called them something else when you were on in the text. I can't remember. The functionalists?

[Speaker 1]
Oh, that's the lower three and a half. Three and a half?

[Speaker 2]
Oh, three, three, sorry.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, you're right. That's the same thing. So, they believe that she, meaning the cup before I describe its nature and its qualities.

The cup before I name it cup. The cup before I name it cup. They believe it exists through some reality of its own.

Nelu can mean reality. It means way of staying. It's a synonym for reality.

Nelu. So they believe it exists by power of some reality of its own. Before I start calling it anything.

By power of its name. By power of its name. And it exists that way.

You can say that I'm intended to be, but they believe it exists in and of itself before I started giving it names. Yeah. As a thing to be named, it existed by itself before I started giving it names.

But somehow it was supposed to be called coffee cup. Really? And our country was supposed to be called correct always.

You see what I mean? It's because of all wars and misunderstandings. Okay.

So anyway, the kundaki shir, you see, kundaki shir, the basis that is given, attributed, wa, a basic nature, no, and kepa. So don't take this r and kepa as being any kind of lobin, as being a dainty grammar case. As, in the same way that we had it in words text.

In words text, there's millions of these r's, meaning they appear as the other objects, or they appear as the sense powers, but here it's not that. It's just part of a noun. Yeah, it's kepa.

Kepa. It's just a nominative noun with features. Qualities.

Qualities, right, right, okay. Sorry? Yeah, yeah.

Nampa, you see, doesn't have an r. You see what I mean? Kepa, as a noun, has an r.

Okay. Yeah. I'm wondering, you were saying that extra coma is not a special character in the prayer.

Yeah, it would have been it would have been this vertical slash. I think they're showing the scan, but it's a waste of time. Just trust me, it's a mess.

[Speaker 2]
It's weird to have the r's that when a do follows it.

[Speaker 1]
Exactly, yeah, exactly. If a lobin, which is required, yeah, a lobin can't follow a lobin normally. Maybe you can find a case.

Well, maybe there's one case, but you're absolutely correct. If it's do here, this cannot be a lobin. So anyway, get the feeling that in the lower two schools, meaning not minomi, below the minomi, below the minomi, they think that it should have been called kap.

It should have been called kap. Our country's policies should have been called angskren. This is like this feeling.

Yeah, and I just made myself a note here compared to the sen yi sum, the three qualities, but it ain't them. It's not that kundap. It's a different kundap.

And I don't think he's ever going to mention the three definitions or the three qualities. Now this mistake was especially painful. And it took me another 20 minutes to figure it out.

And I'm wondering if there's ones I didn't figure out. I think I got most of them, but it's like roaches in your house. Every time you see one, there's going to be two that you don't see.

I mean, New York I can never see.

[Speaker 2]
Geshe-la, do you want me to send it to Gordon?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, definitely.

[Speaker 2]
To Sarnath.

[Speaker 1]
Find a better copy and get it input before next term. Because this is unacceptable. We can't work with this.

A few healthy mistakes is nice. It makes me look good when Veronica's here, though. But every other word is just too much.

It's just too much. It disturbs the flow of the work. It takes too many hours to figure it out.

So, dun de kun dang mi Now you can explain what it means to label an object as having a basic nature and qualities.

[Speaker 2]
We're at just a couple minutes left. Could you say that last part again?

[Speaker 1]
What does it mean? When I say you're labeling its moral, which means its basic nature, and you're labeling it with its characteristics, what's that mean exactly? And he clarifies here very nicely.

So a lot of your translation of this section will come from your understanding of this sentence. dun de kun dang mi Now what do we mean by this kind of labeling? What are we talking about here?

Lumbo, when you're looking at blue, the color blue, and you say to yourself, this is a kind of visible form. This is a kind of visible form. When you label it that way, when you label it in those words in your mind, this is a kind of visible form, you are talking about its basic nature.

But, when you say, here's an example of a visible form starting, or here's an example of a visible form stopping, when you talk about its details, then you're talking about characteristics. You are attributing characteristics. And he wants to emphasize that it's a verbal process.

Think to yourself in your mind, give it these words, call it that. So here, do, or tar, becomes, call it, this is visible form, or, this is a case where visible form is starting, or stopping. Got it?

So the first one, now this verb, tar, at the end, distributes to both parts. You are either labeling it about its essence, which I call nature, or you are labeling it about its qualities. Yeah, its qualities.

So you are, and probably this do will also distribute to more. More. Got it?

So that's so more comfortable. What do you mean nature? What do you mean qualities?

I mean, you say it's visible. That's its basic nature. And then you say, it started in this way, it stopped in this way.

That's its qualities. How do you draw that? Yeah, how do you draw that?

Last sentence, right? Am I right? It's a good place to stop, actually.

Well, it'd be nice to do the next one too. Yeah, I was uncomfortable, anyway, I fixed it. I'm almost so alone in terms of tsam du nyupay.

But, okay, but since Blue and other similar things do have, they do exist with a certain nature and a certain qualities, just that, tsam. They do have basic nature and they do have basic qualities. That much, they're not denying, we're not denying.

Nobody's denying. Nobody's denying it's a kind of visible form. Nobody's denying it started and it stopped.

Nobody's denying just that much. Tsam.

[Speaker 2]
Only that.

[Speaker 1]
Tsam is a kind of dance. Just that much, nobody's denying. Okay, got it?

Nobody's denying it has a nature. Nobody's denying it has qualities. What we're denying, okay, gokpa, is that they could exist in and of themselves.

That the thing could exist by definition. Or that it's nature and it's qualities could exist by definition. This is what we're denying.

I want to go on one more line. de-yang sukso ngo-la khyerpo kyi tanye kyi shi yinpa ni Now let's talk about the thing which is going to receive the name. Shi.

Let's talk about the thing which is going to be attributed to the nature or characteristics. Let's talk about the thing before you call the thing. Which is called the tanye kyi shi.

[Speaker 2]
It's a conventional thing.

[Speaker 1]
No, here it's not conventional. It's the thing which received the name.

[Speaker 2]
Tanye means name. The thing which receives the name.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, so here... It's the same as ming here. Exactly the same as ming here.

Usually tanye can mean a term and more often it might be multi-word. Okay, but here it's just in this philosophical system. It just means the thing which is going to receive the name.

Please give me a name. It's the thing talking to you. I'm out here.

Can you just give me a name? Okay. So what's the ontological status of that thing before you get it?

It was sitting here saying please give me a name. Make me something. But you're nothing.

You're nobody. No, but I'm something. Okay, so what are you before you get a name?

What's its status before it got its name? That's the disagreement here. Shi yinpa ni.

Now let's talk about that thing which is the basis which gets the names of oh, this is its nature. dimi suk dimi suk so or characteristics. dimi suk gyewa o dimi suk gakpa o What is it that got the name?

That's the interesting thing. Then they had yin for mean, which was always fun. Even though it is only established through name and terms.

Names and terms. Terms meaning mental pictures. But the word meaning terms.

Buddha and Tanya are very similar. Even though it just exists through names and ideas really, concepts, it's still yang. It exists.

It still exists. Now that's flirting with because it exists. What school?

[Speaker 2]
It's Svatantrika.

[Speaker 1]
No, Prasangika. I mean, this is us, Mingde Shaktam. We are the Mingde Shaktam school.

Everything exists just through the mental picture coming out of the cosmic speed. Adding the word coming out of the cosmic speed is one of the achievements of DCI.

[Speaker 2]
Even though it's Mingde Shaktam, it's so beautiful.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, okay. DER RANG GI TSE NI KYI GRUB PA NI MED PA'I It doesn't exist. DER is very important here.

The little words are the crucial words. What's it mean? What's the DER?

[Speaker 2]
By that.

[Speaker 1]
As that. As what? TAN GNYEN GYI TSEN ZHIR TAN GNYEN GYI TSEN ZHIR It doesn't exist as the thing that was asking for a name in and of itself.

It doesn't exist for it to be the thing that got the name doesn't exist in and of itself. Or a cop before it got the name cannot exist in and of itself. That's MED PA'.

MED PA'I Therefore, what they are, therefore, SKAD DGOS means you have to deny. You have to deny that it could exist the way it looks. You have to deny that it could exist the way it seems to exist.

Literally it says here, you have to deny that it could exist the way it seems to exist as being that. Tricky. Very tricky.

As being what? As being a thing which is to receive a name which exists in and of itself before it got the name. And that's the Maitreya School.

Sorry, is it the Maitreya School? I think we're shading into the Maitreya School. We started with the two dissonance schools.

They said that thing exists in and of itself. No, I'm sorry, they said it didn't exist in and of itself. No, no.

You see here, if you read it without the comma, it existed as the thing to be given the name, in and of itself. That was the lower two schools. And now, how does the minority improve on the lower two schools?

Well, they say the thing that was asking for a name didn't exist. RANG GI MED LUGS KYIS. RANG GI.

You could have said RANG GI MED LUGS KYIS. Or you could have said RANG GI MED LUGS KYIS RANG GI. Same thing.

It's the same thing. RANG GI is just an instrumental. Didn't exist through some nature of its own.

Through its own reality. Is that cool? So what's the difference between the minority school and the two lower schools?

[Speaker 2]
The basis didn't exist through its own reality.

[Speaker 1]
How did the thing exist before you gave it the name? And somehow they want it to be coffee cup before it's called coffee cup. That's the point.

They want to say, which implies something's coming this way. They want it somehow to be a coffee cup before you call it a coffee cup, before you think of it as a coffee cup, before an image comes out of your karmic seeds to overlay it as a coffee cup in the Prasangika language. Cool?

They want it to be what it is before your karma tells you what it is. Okay? We're just human nature.

They're a bad country. We're a good country.

[Speaker 2]
Why is the label a cat? A horse.

[Speaker 1]
That's nice.