Классика Алмазного огранщика: Нижний Срединный путь — Анализ зависимости, занятие 55

[Speaker 1]
Chö dang tsok gi chok nam la, jang chu bar du dak ni kya tsu chi, dak gi chun yin ki pe so nam ki, dro la pen chir sang gye drub par shok. Chö dang tsok gi chok nam la, jang chu bar du dak ni kya tsu chi, dak gi chun yin ki pe so nam ki, dro la pen chir sang gye drub par shok. Chö dang tsok gi chok nam la, jang chu bar du dak ni kya tsu chi, dak gi chun yin ki pe so nam ki, dro la pen chir sang gye drub par shok.

There are links that require you to be reborn. Okay, the next one, how can a will be completed in two lives? No intermediate life.

No intervening life. And one important criteria is that the karma has to be armed by initial and advanced desires, producing super strong link of ripened karma. Super strong.

Super strong. And how can a will be completed in three lives? There's always an intervening life.

[Speaker 2]
When the karma is armed in the second life, in the intervening life.

[Speaker 1]
Yes, when they are not armed by initial and advanced desire links at the first life, causing the intervening life. Mitten. Body and mind.

Yeah, HQ. I always remember HQ. It's a good translation.

Human's headquarter. Is that good? Where you have to work from.

Home base. Home base?

[Speaker 2]
Home base.

[Speaker 1]
It's base, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Home base.

Yeah, I think that's good. I like home base. Parmacupa.

Parmacupa, no intervening. Parma means what? What does it mean, actually?

Par is like in between.

[Speaker 2]
In between?

[Speaker 1]
So cut in between? Not cut. Mind, not cut.

In between. Okay, okay. And then, citar bul?

Bul. Citar bul yang? That's a good vocabulary.

Yeah, we struggle through this. Oops. No matter how slow.

[Speaker 2]
You are.

[Speaker 1]
No matter how slow things are. Good, yeah. Unusual use of proof.

I mean, it doesn't have anything to do with offering. Okay, that's all. Thank you very much.

I like the tie. I don't want the tie. I just like the tie.

Okay, thank you. That's a Princeton tie. It's loyal to Tigers.

You're from Princeton, too?

[Speaker 2]
The Auburn Tigers, too.

[Speaker 1]
Is that what the tie is? Yeah. All the university colors.

It was the print of some English something. These are our choices for today. Choker.

This is the trim I was pulled up. That's your hospital. Terminator, Dark Fate.

Yeah. You're sitting in a little black cloud. Terminator was yesterday's logic class.

I was afraid it was today again, and I didn't want to come. Okay. Okay, he said you can't finish a whole wheel in four lifetimes, okay?

And here we go. Mr. Sugeng, today ... Not much to do.

Excuse me, I'm going to interrupt you for a second. Okay. Okay.

Okay. Wow, that's a long proof. Okay.

There does too exist one turn around the wheel in ... How many lives? Four lifetimes?

Okay. In a human body and mind, you suck le which will penetrate the ripened heaps. Okay, you got to understand why this is here.

Ripened body and mind. Ava? Ava deva.

Okay. Then that karma, samatha, does not get armed either by ... because the either is going to be important in this example, okay?

Either by initial desire or increased desire, advanced desire. Oh, it's either or, se or len? Right, neither by neither, right?

It isn't armed by either. Because later in the proof he's going to divide them. So just basically ...

basically misunderstanding a seed waters it. That's very interesting. And that's why if you get to a certain point of understanding the pen, you cannot take a lower rebirth.

Because understanding your seeds waters them, makes them grow harder. The opposite is coffee meditation on a good seed. Makes it grow faster.

Okay. By the way, this is John Campbell, John Foley. Do you guys know each other?

He's our new Sanskrit expert. He makes the Nepal project go well. He pays for the Nepal project.

You guys can get along with each other. Okay. su-ma-ta-pa le-shen gyi wang gi Due to what?

Le-shen. Yeah, some other karma, okay? Other than the one that was supposed to project the deva, right?

Due to some other karma that you had in your mind. You take a birth, okay, as a human. This is ...

what's the present tense? Len, yeah. Okay, it's confusing.

Then in that second life, okay, the karma which was supposed to pen-je, the body and mind of the deva as a karmic result, right? That gets su-dupped by sepa alone. By initial desire.

Yeah, by like you kind of don't understand the seed, but not completely don't understand the seed. No, sorry, here. The sepa does arming, but the lempa doesn't do arming.

Okay, eight arms. Like they slightly misunderstand their seed, then they die. They don't have time to misunderstand it completely.

Something like that, okay? Then they shi-po, see? They die and move on.

Po-wa. Then due to some other karma they had, again they take birth as a human. So how many human births now?

Three, plus the first one. Yeah, three so far. Then de-la, on that home base, that previous karma, meaning the one that was going to pen-je a-la, that was going to create a deva-la, it gets, then it gets lempe-su-dupped.

And I guess the implication is it's already sepa-su-dupped. Okay, but it's interesting that the su-dupped, the arming process, might take two lifetimes. That it could go on over two lifetimes.

Because he got initial misunderstanding, started to arm the seed as if water touched the watermelon seed. And we like to talk about a narrow-leaf compion. It was seeds found in Siberia, 32,000 years old.

And they watered them and they grew. So, you know, so here the seed got wet, but it didn't have enough water. The seed got wet in the second life, right?

And then it got full watering in the next life. Then it became si-le-nupa-chen. Super powerful.

This is kind of an interesting idiom that you guys should learn. Okay, there's two le's in the wheel, right? Two and ten.

So now he's saying the karma of ten. Karma as number ten. Which means a seed which is totally soaked in water.

And the picture in the Wheel of Life is a pregnant lady. And then number eleven is going to be birth. So, this is a very common idiom in the Wheel of Life literature.

They say si-le-nupa-chen, okay? Si-le-nupa-chen. It means very potent, pregnant seed, ready to burst open.

Ready to crack open. Ready to crack open, okay? Where is it in the kitchen?

She puts her hand on the doorknob to the kitchen. Then when she opens the door, it will crack open. And she'll see the husband yelling, okay?

Nupa tu-chen du-chen ne. It makes the karma very powerful. And then finally you...

you take that deva birth that you were supposed to take because it finally got watered properly. The seed finally got watered properly. Then we can say in this case that the yenlak chu nyipo, all twelve, have dzok in four different lives.

Mindawa, four different lives, okay? Then he just rubs it in, he says. Then he wraps it up.

The first two links happened in which life? The first human life. The first human life.

Then the initial watering happened in the second human life. Then the advanced watering, the soaking, happened in the third human life. And there's that, all the other seven, right?

It's very common in the wheel because those are just the normal human life, okay? Yeah, they get... he doesn't say they get completed in the fourth life.

He says they get completed in the in the deva's life that was being projected, okay? Got it? What now?

Anticipatory translation. Yeah, he's... there's been a discussion can you make all twelve links in one life?

What was the answer? No. Can you make all twelve links in two in the same round, okay?

Two is possible, three is possible, four is possible. Then we're trying to learn this thing called anticipatory translation. What might be the next subject?

[Speaker 2]
Can you do five?

[Speaker 1]
There's a lot of questions. Questions. How can we translate deva?

Oh, I call it pleasure being.

[Speaker 2]
Just pleasure being? Okay.

[Speaker 1]
I like to translate... He's asking how to translate deva or thought. I like to say pleasure being because when you say god or divine or deva it implies spiritually divine, and they're not.

They're just like rich people in this life. They have sex, they get drugged up, then they die. So I don't want to call them devas or especially I don't want to call them gods.

One more question. When I read these one, two, three, four, five lives it looks like these eight and nine are implying to the bad seeds rather than good seeds, is that right? Yeah, everything in the wheel is bad.

You can always... If your translation is a little dark, that's perfect. Okay.

The only happy place is standing outside the wheel and pointing at the moon. Okay, here we go. By the way, the wheel is much more...

I don't know, it's like someone being raped or something. It's supposed to make you feel terrible. But people are like, oh, look at that pretty pregnant lady.

Yay! Yay! Ah, Rang Luke.

What is Rang Luke, just for our guests? Our definition from our system, by our system. So what are the three parts of a typical debate text?

Oh. Wait, wait. You can say it in English.

Yeah, the first one is basically all the wrong definitions, all the wrong components. The other guy gets to come and make stupid statements. Stupid statements.

Wrong statements about the subject. Then the second part... The second part will be our definition.

Then we wipe him out. We say, aha, this is the correct thing. But then very coolly...

The third part, we let them to come back and do some rebuttals. He gets to come back and attack our position, which is a very nice pedagogical method, educational method. So first we learn what's everything wrong, then we learn everything right, and then the wrong guy gets to come back again and complain about our right stuff.

And it's a very nice... it's kind of fair. Okay, so here...

We just reached... except we always beat him in the third one. By the way, he loses every debate.

You know, he never wins. It's just like a good football game. Okay.

Pause there. The real important one. Yeah, Adam's got it.

Talk about it.

[Speaker 2]
Talk about it. No, say it the same way we said ji tar bu.

[Speaker 1]
Ji tar bu is no matter how slow. Now this says... Yeah, no matter how fast they go.

No matter how fast the twelve links go, right? Okay, no matter how fast the twelve links go, you're gonna have to take nyi. Two different lifetimes.

Mindawa, two different lifetimes, to dzok. Yeah, gupa means you gotta. It's gotta take at least two lifetimes.

Okay, why? Now he's gonna give us a reason. Now read from mi ten.

mi ten la mi ten le nam min kyi bungpo pen che kyi le sak le te la selen nyi kyi sutap kama, kama. Say sutap.

[Speaker 2]
Sutap. Say pause.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. mi ten la selen nyi pa tuchen tu chen ne kyewa sen kyi sen kyi parma chupar lar kyewa langpa te tse yanlak chu nyi po te tse min drawa nyi la sukpa yinpey jir I'm gonna cut this off. Okay.

Yeah, mi ten la with an inner body and mind of a human, inner body and mind of a human, you sak le kama, which pen che projects the body and mind, I'm gonna say for simplicity, yeah, which ripens of a deva, okay? Then that karma gets sutapad, armed, armed by both initial and advanced stupid desire ignorance. And then that becomes sile.

Becomes yeah, ripe karma of great power. And he repeats the word nyupa, okay? Tremendous power, okay?

Chen ne, makes it have tremendous power. And then kyewa sen kyi parma chupar kyewa sen kyi parma chupar Yeah, and given that there's no intervening life, right? No life between the two, you're immediately born into a deva realm.

In this case, okay, this tse means case and not lifetime. Okay, in this instance, you're gonna get twelve lengths finishing in two different lives. So this tse means life.

This tse means when, or that time. Okay, so you gotta be careful in these real-life things about the word life. Okay.

[Speaker 2]
Ah, that's a...

[Speaker 1]
Well, something concluded. There's a, you feel a pause in the syntax, and then it starts with de tse. If it meant that life, it would say tse de la.

You see what I mean? That's the clue. De tse is at that time.

Tse de la means in that life. So the de would come after tse if it meant life. Okay.

And this is not, this doesn't modify tse by the way. Okay. It modifies the yenlak chu nyipo.

Those twelve lengths. Tricky. Alright.

Here we go, short sentence. drup che kong dang sung Anybody got it? Yeah, now the proof of what we just said is what we just went through.

Abab. Kong du. Sung means equal, equal to.

Okay, we don't have to repeat the whole argument. Here we go. tendrel yenlak chu nyipo te che min drawa sum la sokpa yu te By the way, why didn't I cut this up?

Yeah, I was just asking myself the same question. No, it's very long, but look. Here's the drup che, and here's the reason down here.

It's a single logical statement. You can't really split it. It's a single syllogism.

And really, this is chud chen here. Let's take the twelve lengths, kapa, they can be completed in three different lifetimes, because, and then it goes, this is the whole because right here. You take a deep breath and say it.

Because, mi ten la, it's the same thing basically. You suck, you collect the karma to pen je, as a karmic ripening, okay? The body and mind of a deva.

Then, that karma, su mat tap, doesn't get armed by the little bit of water and a lot of bit of water. Then you die. Okay?

Then due to other karma, you kiyawa as a mere me, take birth as a human. On that human body and mind, that karma, which is supposed to project the body and mind of a deva as its karmic ripening, right? It gets sued up by both.

Get armed by both initial and advanced desires. Yeah, which kind of means initial and advanced ignorance.

[Speaker 2]
Ignorance.

[Speaker 1]
You got to understand that. There's a whole long discussion about desire and I don't think it has much to do with it. It's the ignorance behind the desire, the arms, the karma.

Because everyone, because according to Lam Rim, everybody wouldn't like to be born as a hell realm. You see what I mean? That's not real bad desire.

That's a kind of a nice aspiration. ser tap si le nupa ten chen du che It makes the karma ten extremely potent. And then you, lang kiyawa, take birth as a human.

As a god. Yeah. And in this instance, okay, when that happens, all twelve links ar dzok in Semen Dawa Sum, in three different lives, yin mey che te You could, you know, if you wanted to, you could cut it there.

It's a dual reason. There's two kinds of dual reasons. You can say kang shik, which is kind of like a simultaneous dual reason.

But this is a different kind of dual reason. He says because blah blah blah, because blah blah blah. So really he's proving the first reason with another reason.

So it's not a full syllogism, but neither is it a dual reason. It's a progressive reason, okay? Got it?

Because he didn't say kang shik here. te means succession. Okay?

Okay, so here we go. Which means he's thinking of another reason to tell you that supports his first reason. And here it is.

yanglak dangpo nyi mi tse dangpo dangselen sipa So the famous first two links are completed. Here's the verb dzok, which distributes to everything. The first two links are completed in the mi tse dangpo in the first human life.

What are the famous first two links? Or the misunderstanding and the fresh karma. Yeah, misunderstanding things and fresh karma.

In the kitchen. That's the first link. And you yell back.

It could be also.

[Speaker 2]
That could be also. But the emphasis was on ... yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, Yanglak, how many lifetimes does it take to complete a single yelling at your husband?

[Speaker 2]
At least two.

[Speaker 1]
At least two. So they are ... Anyway, yanglak dangpo nyi mi tse dangpo.

And the first two links, the famous first two links which hang together. Misunderstanding your husband and doing something to hurt him. They are completed in the first lifetime.

Human lifetime. Then ... The ...

ripe karma links, which are three. Okay, so karma involved links are always two plus three. These two plant the karmic seed.

These three water it until it's powerful and ready to open. And then that happens in the second human life. And then all those other seven.

What are the other seven? Sumbha, nam she. Sumbha, nam she.

Then there's consciousness entering the womb. Shipa, ming suk. The body and mind in the womb.

Ngapa kye che. The sense ... senses growing inside the womb.

Gyepa ... Drupa rekpa. Drupa rekpa.

Contact between the senses and the outside world. Dumbha towa. Healing.

And that's it, right? Seven? Three, four, five, six, seven.

Or eleven and twelve. Rebirth and old age in there. Maybe.

Okay. Mi tse nyi mi lama du mo. Lai tse.

They are completed in the God's life. And then you get all twelve. Yay!

Means what number? Link three, four, five ... Three, four, five, six, seven.

Eleven, twelve are completed in the Deva's realm. Means the other one ... Yeah, and those are basically ...

Those seven are one lifetime. Yeah. Okay.

You basically form ... You enter your mom's womb. Your body and mind form.

You come out. You make contact with the outside world. Then you die.

That's rebirth and then you die. Okay. Okay.

But what ... How could eleven ... I thought eleven and twelve were their own separate life.

I don't know. How could you rebirth when you were born? Yeah.

Eleven is three through seven. What? Eleven is three through seven.

You've got to cook it. You've got to cook it. Okay.

All right. Okay. Here comes the jitarbhuyang.

Jitarbhuyang, yeah. You met her half-slow. tendrel yinlak chu nyi ...

chu nyi po te jitarbhuyang ... Let's translate that much. The ...

No matter how slow the twelve links of the dependence circle ... Yeah. Go ahead.

che min drawa si la ... si ... si ...

si la ... drawa ... si ...

si la ... si la ... Yeah.

It ... It's part ... It can new.

Okay. It can new. New.

It can new. Can ... Can dzok ...

in se chi. Okay.

[Speaker 2]
What was new again?

[Speaker 1]
Sorry? Can. Oh, can.

[Speaker 2]
Power.

[Speaker 1]
It means power. It's able to. Able to.

Able to collect ... How's that? Now please read this next piece.

mi ni ten la ... mi ni ten la ... lem nam min kyi pungpo ...

lem nam min kyi pungpo ... pen che kyi le sak ... pen che kyi le sak ...

You should be able to do that by yourself now. Collect ... collect the ...

the human body ... the human ... in the human life ...

[Speaker 2]
in the human ... with the human body and mind.

[Speaker 1]
With the human body and mind. You suck. Collect the karma ...

Yeah. that will ... throw ...

Good. into the ... ripen in the ...

form of the ... body and mind. The body and mind which will ripen into a deva.

Okay. In the deva's realm. Then ...

go ahead and read the whole line. le te la ... le te la ...

se len kang rung ... le su matabpar le ... gyen kyi wang, gyi mir kyewa lang ...

gyi mir kyewa lang ... Yeah. Then that karma is ...

su matab ... is armed ... matab ...

It's not armed. It's not armed. Either by ...

Either by the ... the eight or nine. Eight or nine.

Okay? And due to some older karma. Because of older karma.

You ... mi kyewa lang ... get rebirth into another human ...

Yeah. and on that body and mind, with that body and mind, okay? Then the old karma you collected to become a deva, it does get set up.

You get armed by the, say, the initial declarant. Initial desire. Initial desire.

But it doesn't get set up by the number nine. I'm sorry, nine. And then due to some older karma, you're born as a human.

Then, tendrela ngar kyi le te la lenpay sutap si le nyupa duchen tu che ne lar kyewa langpa na. Yeah, and the interesting thing again is that eight and nine can happen in separate lives, you know. You start to misunderstand the karmic seed, and then you die.

And then you get born again, and you finish misunderstanding the karmic seed, okay? Then it opens, okay? Questioner, is there a clear distinction between eight and nine in terms of misunderstanding?

It's not clear in the literature. No, it's not clear. It's just shades of shades of power.

How strong is it? That's all. And it's not clear what's the line.

There's no definition or anything like that. It's just initial desire and advanced desire. Rinpoche used to talk about it a lot.

We studied this for three years or something, and then we did that Udayana book. We looked at him, but at the time there were so many bad translations of the Twelve Links that it made our work harder. There were so many bad translations, like compositional factors.

That took like six months to destroy that one. And that's okay. They didn't have training.

They were just trying, and that's fine. So anyway, so these two were traditionally translated as desire and taking. And it doesn't make any sense, you know?

And Rinpoche was quite irritated by it. What's the Sanskrit? Why is it len?

Oh, it can be translated as len, but it's a case where it doesn't mean that. What's the Sanskrit? I think it's Upadana for lenda.

Oh, okay. Upadana, yeah. Okay, so in this case, you're the Twelve Links.

And by the way, there's many misnomers in the Twelve Links, right? That's not the only two. The terms, yes.

And they're just code words that Lord Buddha decided to use. So we could have something to do. Then that's an example of these four finishing, of the twelve finishing in four lifetimes.

He doesn't talk about five, does he? Yeah. But he seems to say here that no matter how slow it goes.

Now what about a case where Buddha says if you learn a single line of scripture from a person and then don't treat them as a teacher, you get 500 births as a dog. So there's going to be this debate is coming up. That's a little more than four.

Jeetarbhuyam. So that's coming in the... In the next...

In the Shenlokappa, I think.

[Speaker 2]
Is it like a sequential birth as a dog?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
No.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, we finished that one, right? Oh, now he breaks it down. And he did this already.

I'm just going to read it, okay? The first two links get finished in the first human life. The eighth link gets finished in the second human life.

The ninth link and the tenth link get finished in the third human life. And then the rest of the normal seven links get finished in the deva life at the end, okay? Geshe-la, when we talk about...

when we say deva, this is still in the desire realm? Some are... I think...

no. The beings in the form and formless realm resulting from those deep meditations are also called devas. So this includes all...

Yeah, so only six forms of life in all three realms. Sorry, repeat again? Only six forms of life in all three realms.

If you don't count bardoas. Six, why six? Six forms of life.

A hell animal, a prajnaparamita, a human, an animal, and a deva. But there are some devas in the desire realm, at the very top of Mount Meru. So this includes both?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Good question.

[Speaker 2]
Is it a finite thing, the way that all these... the way that they can write that? Or just endlessly described?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, and some people said, well, Geshe-la, that means they're not empty, because there's not infinite variations. But there are patterns in karma that repeat themselves. So there will never be more than six kinds of life.

So you have to struggle with that. It doesn't mean it's not empty. It just means that given all the ways that karma can interact, there's only six possibilities for life.

Somebody asked me, if you saw all the beings in the universe, did you see anybody that had four eyes, or six arms? No, you won't. Okay.

That's okay. Okay? Sorry about that.

All this is science fiction. Okay, you ready? You had some question.

Who had a question? Somebody else had a question? No?

Okay, go. Okay. I hate that.

I hate that when he goes, taaah. He's good at it. Yupa taa.

Yupa taa. Yupa taa? Yupa taa.

Okay, it goes up. Ron Luke. Now, Ron Luke, our guy is saying, look, it is possible to have initial desire, and then it gets partially armed by initial desire, and then it doesn't get armed by strong desire in the same life.

It is possible. So how does it happen? How could it happen?

You kind of have to die halfway between or something. Let's see if we're right. Okay, shipo yupa taa.

It is possible to die with that deva karma. It got wet, but it didn't get soaked. Okay, well how does that happen?

Please read. tok... tok...

tok! Tok. Okay, stop there.

This is misspelled. What's the distinction between jik and jiks? Which is which?

Fear, yeah, this has to be fear. And it's a dangerous misspelling because the other one makes sense.

[Speaker 2]
What is the one without the S?

[Speaker 1]
With the S means fear, and without the S means to destroy. Yeah, this is just a traditional sepa. And I'm not sure those are totally correct, but anyway, here we go.

De tenla. With the body and mind that you collect the deva karma, before you die, you get number eight. Number eight wets it, okay?

Number eight wets it, okay? How? Dark shade, toki, jikpa.

And we had the different kinds of sepa before. I think there's three or four. Here's one of them, okay?

Tok means unfounded suspicion or a fear, irrational fear, okay? What is the irrational fear here? Yeah, I'm being destroyed.

I'm being destroyed. As you die, you say, I'm going into the, permanently into the void, I will never come back. And you get terrified.

So this jiks means terrified, okay? And that's a classic kind of sepa, because this misunderstanding of the seed is quite strong at that moment, okay? Jikpa.

What is dark shade again? Oh, you're afraid that you are going to discontinue. Okay, this jik means cut off, like jik.

You're afraid that's the end of you and you're going to be gone forever. Yeah, me is going to be cut off, terminated, and you have a terror, terror that this is going to happen. And that's sepa, that's a form of sepa.

That's a form of wetting the seed, moistening the seed, but not soaking it, okay? So you have sepe sepa, means you have link aid in the form of a desire for yourself or your parts, and that overcomes you. Kye, sepa kye, that comes up in your heart, and that sepa sutaps, that arms the karma which is going to throw a body and mind as a ripening for a deva, okay?

Nembe. But there's not time for lemba to come in, deeper desire, because you're dark, okay? So it's very interesting.

In his example, number eight has to happen during the death process, to not be followed by a nine. That's interesting, right? Well, I don't know.

I would say it probably has to. If you have any time to think about it, eight's going to go to nine. But if you have eight real strong, and then you suddenly die.

So his example is that. I don't know, in theory, if it's possible to have... Meaning that in the death process, the person has this fear, and that's why.

Yeah, he has eight, but he doesn't have nine. Yeah, for 99% of people, that fear arms the karma. And then if on the next life they have this fear again, I think this will become a perpetual cycle.

Well, there's different kinds of sepa. So nine could happen before death, I think. Nine, but not eight, right?

Yeah, it doesn't necessarily have to happen at death. But for this example, eight has to happen at death, because eight happens without nine. Okay, but there's different kinds of sepa.

I think in his text, because remember we defined twelve links. Now we're talking about how many lifetimes does it take. We're actually done with the twelve links.

Now he's just talking about how do they work. Okay, set tap lenpay summat tap. So in that case, the karma has been armed by initial misunderstanding, but it hasn't been completely soaked, right?

And you sipa, die. And hlai bar tu kyiwa lung, you take a birth as a... Oh, I'm sorry, a bardo being, okay?

Parthi. Say Parthi. That means a bardo being.

Parthowa. Parthowa. What's another word for that?

Yeah, in Sanskrit. Gandharva. Which also means celestial musician.

So you got to be careful. They got mixed up, and then they started calling celestial musicians stink eaters, but they're not. Okay, so anyway.

I don't know. Geshe-la, this hlai parthitu, parthitu, kyiwa, means what? This is the deva's bardo.

[Speaker 2]
Now wait a time here.

[Speaker 1]
What do you look like at that point? Yeah, looks like bardo. In the Parthi.

Do you look like the thing you're going to become? Yeah, the rule is, you look like the being you're going to be. Yes.

So you die as a human, and then immediately you take on the appearance of a god, deva, but in sort of a spirit form. And if you're going to take birth in the hell realm, you look like a burnt log, and you walk upside down, and stuff like that. So, I don't know.

Hlai barthitu kyiwa lung. So you go into the Parthi, and you look like a hla. Now the big question is, can it be redirected in the Parthi?

Once you look like a deva, in the bardo, can anything happen there to redirect you? It's called redirecting in the bardo. In Abhidharma, we say no, right?

No. I don't know. Ask the Abhidharmas.

But here, it seems that the bardo is hla, but it's going to be reborn as a human. When you say the bardo is a hla, it always means, it's going to be a hla. Not that he's a hla.

He's not a hla. He's actually some kind of a preta. Sorry?

Pardoas are pretas, but they look like hlas because they're going to a deva realm. Pardoas preta? A bardo is like considered a preta.

Yeah, I mean, they're like a preta has done. Tisa has also seen him for a preta. But we discussed before, right?

Pardoa is not part of these six realms.

[Speaker 2]
In the wheel, he's not.

[Speaker 1]
He's in the next wheel, before the animals and outside the animals, but inside the six kinds of birth. Or five, depending on which painting you have. Okay.

Pasitu Kevalang. So, please read. Ke situ ...

Ke situ kewa malang par mir kewa yupey jirte. Yeah, $50 for this one, but you have to be right. I'm safe.

I know I'm safe. He's the only one who can get it, and he's not in the mood this morning. Ke situ.

Ke situ means the being to take birth. Whoa. Forget it.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, I know.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, nobody got it. There does exist the possibility that even having taken a bardo body that looks like a deva, you can still be born as a human without going into ... Ke situ kewa malang par.

Without going into the ... without being born as a ke situ. So, see here doesn't mean link number ...

Ten. Ten. It means a kind of being.

So, you can be a Parsi. You can be a being in the in-between state who's supposed to be a deva, but when you pop out, you pop out as a human. Okay, now what's going on there?

Here's the reasoning. ley par situ kewa lang na, ley ke situ kewa lenpay ma kyabpay jir. Yeah, just because you have taken birth as a deva Parsi, when?

After you die. Just after you die. You take birth into the bardo.

That's also called a ke situ. That's also called a being at birth. So, you die.

You're born into the bardo. You look like the deva you're supposed to become, but you don't take ... That doesn't necessarily mean that when you pop out, you're going to be a deva.

Okay, got it?

[Speaker 2]
You die.

[Speaker 1]
You die. Yeah, it changes. Something happens in the bardo.

You get redirected in the bardo. And by the way, that's why we do cheong cheong. That's why we do prayers for dead people for 49 days.

We're trying to ... We're trying to set off other karmas in their mind and redirect them. So, this is a proof that it's possible.

We still got more.

[Speaker 2]
No, we still got more. We still got more.

[Speaker 1]
He's going to explain. Don't worry. Okay, kun le du le.

Kun le du le. Here's the scriptural proof. Then we're going to have a logical proof.

Don't worry. kun le du le, ji tena dok ndok ko tena, neypa kyang le sok ko, tse sungpe je. So, there's two kundus.

Do kundu and ... Tema kundu. And ngumba kundu.

Abhidharma. So, samuchaya means compendium. There's two famous compendiums.

So, you need a database. And this happens to be the Abhidharma one, which was mistakenly put into the Mind Only School section. You're supposed to say, No, no, Geshe-la.

That's a Mind Only version of Abhidharma, written by Asanga. His brother wrote the Abhidharma version of Abhidharma. Then the brother, the half-brother, wrote the Mind Only version of the same Abhidharma.

But it's different. It's more sophisticated. So, anyway.

Is it the same contents? Mostly the same contents, but very Mind Only-ish. So, it's kind of a bridge between Abhidharma to Mind Only.

But it's actually kind of ... It's used a lot for correct opinions about things. Abhidharma kosha is used a lot for incorrect opinions about things.

Or basic information. Correct basic information. I don't want to put down Stanley completely.

How long is this?

[Speaker 2]
What's that?

[Speaker 1]
It's quite long. Do you mean the thickness? chi de na doko chi de na doko How is it that you could reverse the direction at that point?

How is it that you could change the direction at that point? Doko means here, turn it to another direction. Doko means to turn around, right?

How is it that you could redirect the karma at that point? Well, de na nepe, those who are staying there, in the pardo, lay still. They also collect karma.

They're doing stuff. They're thinking stuff. They're making karma.

Okay, it's very interesting. If you spend 49 days there, you've got to do something. You still have a mind.

Every time you have a thought, you're collecting karma. So the Abhidharma samuccaya says, yeah, how is it you could redirect it? Well, de na nepe means those who are staying there.

Still, they still make karma. They're still making karma. Okay, cool.

[Speaker 2]
They have great fear of death as they enter the womb?

[Speaker 1]
Sorry?

[Speaker 2]
They have great fear of death?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, but then after that they feel good and they make some good karma. I don't know, maybe they help other bardoas. Wow.

I did big letters for you here. Okay, ji and chi are interchangeable. Don't worry about that.

Chi de na doko. De na nepe, yel me soko. So just different ancient spellings, but it's all the same, okay?

Oh, this is the Abhidharma samuccaya. Then he says, kelwa nyampe, not kelpa, okay? Kelwa nyampe sem chen nam kyang tong ngo.

Sai bardo people can see other Sai bardo people. And he starts to go on other details of the bardo, okay? And in his mind, the debate is finished.

But he's going to give reasons now in the tsupa pong. Because Venerable Utpala came back here and said, wait a minute. That's just a quotation from scripture.

Can't you prove it? And she became the tsupa pong. So please read.

Ten seconds left. How much time we have? Ten seconds.

Don't waste ten seconds. If you were in the bardo, you could redirect yourself in ten seconds. Okay, so here the guy gets to come back and attack our presentation.

Let's finish this sentence. Okay. kachik nare, khala ne mir kewa langpe, drebuy tendrel dunpo tem mi ten la, yong su dzokpar thal.

Ah, no, forget it. I don't want to go there. It's not what I thought.

I thought he was going to prove the thing about karma in the bardo. And he's not going there. Stopped here.

Fourteen. Fourteen. Okay.

khala ne mir kewa langpe, drebuy tendrel dunpo tem mi ten la, yong su dzokpar thal. Ah, no, forget it. I don't want to go there.

It's not what I thought. I thought he was going to prove the thing about karma in the bardo. drebuy tendrel dunpo tem mi ten la, Ah, no, forget it.

I don't want to go there. Yali and Jenny, and then Gibson and Emily translating, and we were gonna go to the Hilton and have breakfast, and the Hilton said we don't want people hanging out. Then the second meeting was gonna be a printing meeting.

You were gonna start your printing meeting, I was gonna drop in, and then after that I had another meeting with ACI and ACIP, so I asked Scott to call Moscato and see if we could get it for four or five hours in the afternoon. They open at 11, but I think no one goes there, and if they disagree we'll do it here, but we have to stagger those meetings for me to come to all of them. If it's Moscato, it'll be something like 11, 12, 30, and two or something like that, okay?

So you'd be 12, 30? That'd be wonderful, that'd be awesome. Let's see what Scott reports, but generally, is that time work for you guys, 12, 30 to two or something like that?

For publishing, for publishing, and then I'd like the mixed nuts to come, because we're gonna brainstorm about ways to market your books. John, we made a hundred and thirty thousand bucks in a month with the first book, The Diamond Cutter, and so we're trying to repeat that, but it's gonna take your help, and I'm not doing the whole thing, which I did. Me and Birgitta did the other one, right?

She carried the books in the suitcase, and Scott auctioned them for five thousand dollars each, and I mean, that's not gonna happen. I can't repeat that, so I need your help. I need you guys to come up with some ideas on how to sell your books, especially the books like The Logic Book.

You gotta put some, I don't know, some cocaine inside or something. I can't think of why anybody would buy it. Maybe people can't