Классика Алмазного огранщика: Нижний Срединный путь — Анализ зависимости, занятие 50

[Speaker 1]
Chogeshmokey. Oh, no. Oh, that's a bad question.

You don't like it? I can't believe it.

[Speaker 2]
Man. It's so hard for me.

[Speaker 1]
OK, let's start. One more question.

[Speaker 2]
All right.

[Speaker 1]
Why do we use the word condition, cha, or moment of birth, cashian moment of death, to see as combined with the period of intermediate being and the living being? Because of what?

[Speaker 2]
Oh, uh-huh.

[Speaker 1]
Well, I already said it in class. Oh, you said it in class.

[Speaker 2]
We don't even know that it's for that long. We can't seem to identify such a being since maybe they're not a being, but I don't know if I accept that argument. But that's his argument.

So it's a condition.

[Speaker 1]
Who's school are we in? Sugang school. Yeah, they say it's 50% coming from Sugang.

[Speaker 2]
Oh yeah. The conceived child side.

[Speaker 1]
Probably because the first two are just very short moments and early periods. Oh, what is it? Not really beings.

Okay. What is the traditional reason why old age and death are combined into one link?

[Speaker 2]
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, right.

[Speaker 1]
Because sometimes we don't get old. Yeah, I don't have enough material to do questions.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, there you go. Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
relationship.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Yeah. It's a pattern.

Okay. Between death and rebirth. Good.

Between death and rebirth. Ni Chang? Make the crossing.

Between Ni Chang and Jarwa, make the crossing. Make the crossing. Yeah, by the way, a lot of texts say Ni Chang.

[Speaker 2]
With a D?

[Speaker 1]
Ni Chang. With a D, yeah. Do you think it's a misspelling?

I, I, you know, maybe it's a Gangka, I don't know. Ni would make more sense to me.

[Speaker 2]
OK, the last one. Lenyong, the newest English term, please.

[Speaker 1]
Yay. Oh. Yeah.

Karnak. Karnak. Yeah.

Karnak. Karnak. Karnak.

That's not English. Yay. I like it.

It's so far from English.

[Speaker 2]
You like it? So far. Wait, what's it mean?

[Speaker 1]
There are so many reasons that's not English. I get it.

[Speaker 2]
It's a Karnak. Karnak. Lenyong basically means Karnak.

You're a victim of Karnag. Karnag. Karnag.

[Speaker 1]
Karnag. Karnag.

[Speaker 2]
Karnag. Karnag.

[Speaker 1]
Karnag. Karnag. Karnag.

It's Karnag.

[Speaker 2]
How do you get the Karnag? Karsal.

[Speaker 1]
and the text of our great love by to read by some English term called because they do they do yes okay thank you

[Speaker 2]
that's pretty cool I'll give you two thirds clap carne is meats in Spanish carne is carne

[Speaker 1]
dead meat I'd like to welcome the green stretch penners the three new ones who came in the room

[Speaker 2]
we're working on another one

[Speaker 1]
according to the text it's already a person

[Speaker 2]
according to his text

[Speaker 1]
just now

[Speaker 2]
anyway

[Speaker 1]
that name mooncake number two is still

[Speaker 2]
is still available it's true I googled it

[Speaker 1]
and the website is still available I'm trying to convince him to call his baby mooncake because this is the mooncake festival in China right now but it's not making much progress

[Speaker 2]
Aaron liked it actually not for an official name

[Speaker 1]
okay welcome people from downstate

[Speaker 2]
don't let her start asking questions

[Speaker 1]
okay let's go read read his pronunciation is the best in the room so pay attention now he'll make a mistake that's easy

[Speaker 2]
no sibilance in this language

[Speaker 1]
the link of death why isn't it dependent origination of death because this is a yeah it's an idiom they call each link dependent origination sometimes yeah which is a member of the trouble links and hang on and what's its cause

[Speaker 2]
karmic

[Speaker 1]
karma and negative emotions and due to it your life power stops yeah and it's the conditions in the three categories of changing things which one is it

[Speaker 2]
no it's a changing thing which is neither physical nor mental

[Speaker 1]
yeah you might go there or you might call it

[Speaker 2]
or is the whole problem that it's a God

[Speaker 1]
yeah as I'm saying you could call it a you could call it an unchanging thing unchanging condition one exception according to Christian religion okay alright here we go we're gonna have this in words text in an hour right it's gonna come in the eighth argument about yeah foundation consciousness okay but anyway life blows away yeah the life wears down finishes in English and the warmth generates yeah the warmth of the body starts to be so there's many signs so this doesn't mean more than one okay this one means this many means many okay go ahead by the way this is the explanation of why the two are one link you know all this you know all this yeah group what together yeah now you have to say aging and death you can't say old age you can never translate in the book about the twelve links as old age for this reason making them into one link there is a Gita yeah there's a reason why we do that some people Gepa mature yeah yeah they're getting old but they're not dying yet so then they wouldn't be in one of the links yeah they're aging but not dying and Gashi Chiwa without Gepa they die without aging would you have to put that one as getting old because you can't die without aging that technically you're correct but talk to him this aging though means you know falling apart Chiwa, Iepe, Gyutenki for that reason Denyi are explained as one link are explained are said to be are said to be by the Buddha actually but they didn't go there okay Chiwa he says the latter right, we've had these latter problems this week yeah the latter ones presumably the last three because he's gonna talk about eight and nine He's going to say their characteristics or their features are the same as 8 and 9. So when he says the latter ones, he must be talking about 10, 11, and 12. So sometimes in the explanations of the 12 links, they don't repeat all the typical features of them because they're the same as something that came before.

Features means, is it good karma or bad karma? When do you get rid of it? What realm is it included into?

Basically those are the three typical tricky Kriyayogas. Same as, exactly the same as. Because it didn't say, nice.

I'm glad I didn't bet any money on that. Now, when the sutra teaches the 12 links, okay, the classic sutra on dependent origination, it always goes off on a section after the 12th link, always. It repeats the same section.

There's another section, the 13th section, okay, and it always comes. He's going to explain why it wasn't included in the 12th. So there is like a 13th.

There's always another statement after old age and death. There's always. And then he's answering a question which you should have thought of, which is, why didn't they make that a 13th link?

What is the 13th missing link? Here we go. Question.

If you want an explanation of the other parts, the circles, the concentric circles, where do you look for those? Oh, it is in a sutra, but Abhidharma, we could go off on a... We're going to finish your text without finishing your text.

His text is such a source of everybody's text that we keep going to his text and taking pieces out and putting them in the other books, which is the sexy thing about doing all the schools at once. We can do it. The mine-only argument is going to come in your text, and then we could just take it out of there and put it into your text.

It's going to come shortly.

[Speaker 2]
So anyway, You Chinese guys, give me a good Y.

[Speaker 1]
Give me a good Yi. And cut it short. That's the one.

[Speaker 2]
Like when you say, shut up.

[Speaker 1]
Let's stop there, because that's the famous thirteenth part. And it's always the same. Then what happens?

Nyangyen. Grief. This is the one in the Tibetan word for Nirvana.

We never see it by itself. Shoka. And Ashoka, he didn't have any grief.

And if you want to go further, it's desiccated. And it's dry out because you're crying so much. It's dry out.

Maybe sukha comes from that, because that's another story. Mengak means moans and groans of pain. Bewailing?

[Speaker 2]
Be moaning?

[Speaker 1]
It's like people caught in a fire. The sound of ten or twelve people caught in a room that's on fire. What this sounds like.

It's a very sad word. It's very depressing. It's the sound of a lot of people caught in a fire who can't get out.

Mengak dimba. This is the Swadhyaya dimba. They are.

The sound is coming out of their throats. Screams of pain coming out of their throats. He's describing the wheel.

This is the wheel. This is his summary description of the wheel. We're all sitting here screaming and we're in grief.

And we're all doing a wow. He made an adjective out of it. We're all suffering-ish.

Okay. And that's physical pain. And here's yimidawa.

Yeah, so he's describing the whole wheel. What it feels like to be in the wheel. We are all profoundly unhappy.

And tupa. Disturbed. Yeah, disturbed.

It's in Gerard Manley Hopkins. Where ignorant armies clash by night.

[Speaker 2]
Tupa.

[Speaker 1]
Like a world of confusion. Yeah. Tupa means civil disturbances like Hong Kong right now.

It would be called tupa. Disturbance. Disturbances.

Just confusion and disturbance. Physical. Social disturbance.

Tupa. La sopa. Etc.

This is just a dunyaki pumbo.

[Speaker 2]
Pile of suffering.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, it's a pile of suffering. A mountain of suffering. In English we say mountain for a big heap.

You know. He's giving me a mountain of BS.

[Speaker 2]
You know. Oh yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Bachi. Bachi? Yeah.

This is just a big pile of pain. You know. Jungo.

Jungo. Very important. Present tense.

[Speaker 2]
Comes about.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. That's how it happens. Then he's wrapping up his twelve links.

This is the jung and tenjung. This is the origination and dependent origination. He's got the verb here.

That's how it happens. This huge pile of pain. And he's describing the wheel.

So there comes a question in many commentaries. Why didn't Buddha make it a link? Like the whole wheel together as a big suffering ball.

[Speaker 2]
Make what a link? Suffering?

[Speaker 1]
Because the Buddha always talks, he always says this sentence after he gives the twelve links.

[Speaker 2]
Right.

[Speaker 1]
So people said why didn't he make it kind of, why is it not included in the traditional explanation? Why does everybody leave it out?

[Speaker 2]
Because links are macro. Micro.

[Speaker 1]
Well, we're going to get an argument of why. Okay. From a real...

Never mind. Sungkyang.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Now, say Sung. I admit the Buddha always says that. Kyang.

But, you know, I admit the Buddha always says that after the twelve links. You know. But, here, go ahead.

De dak dir ngu sum ma ten. But the reason we don't include those details about screaming, confusion, pain, and unhappiness as separate links, for example. Okay.

De dak dir ngu sum ma ten. Why are they not directly referred to in the twelve links? Sorry.

Why are they not directly? This is important. Directly.

They're implied. But he says, why don't we mention them directly? Why don't we have link thirteen is screaming, link fourteen is unhappiness, link fifteen is physical pain.

You know, why don't we? There's a reason. Okay.

Here we go. And now, he's going to answer the question of why weren't they all included as like twelve A, twelve B, twelve C. Okay.

In death. You know, bewailing your fate, the physical suffering of death, the unhappiness of death. Why didn't we include them as a component of death?

Because, sang chö. Good. And it's a reference to monks.

It just means celibates, meaning monks or nuns.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, okay, okay, okay.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah, monks whose, whose sang chö is number tapa. Yeah, and this kind of means more general behavior.

Those monks whose behavior in their life has been exemplary. Okay. As they chiwa, yi de shindu, present tense, present participle.

Yeah, happily. They die with a happy heart. Okay.

They die with a happy heart. So, we can't include those descriptions into the number twelve. Okay.

You may, you may, there is such a thing.

[Speaker 2]
Tapa tatung.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, gyur tsunkye. For that reason, ma thang. No, it's dr.

Not gr. No, we don't pull it out. We don't quote it here.

This thang means quote. This thang means quote. We don't, we don't take that out of the sutra and add it to the description in number twelve.

Well, so you could, you know, if you're in a debate ground, you can say, which link has something added and something taken away? Because they add gawa, and they take away dung, mengak, dungpa. Mengak, dungpa.

Screaming. This is not so much screaming as wails of... wails of...

It's very common in descriptions of the hell realms. And it's not common in colloquial. We don't use it in colloquial.

Alright. Pure. Who has good behavior.

Totally pure. Nama tapa. It's vimala.

Who has vimala behavior. Meaning there's sutra, but here he calls it tsungche, which is celibacy, but he means good behavior. And it might have been a comment to his audience.

You know, you guys keep your morality good, and you don't have to worry about this real thing. You know, it might have been a little comment. Maybe somebody in the room was not doing tsungche, never, never.

I don't know. It feels a little bit like that. Okay.

Okay. Now, we've actually finished the twelve links, I think.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, right.

[Speaker 1]
And we have to go on now. But we have some debate about the links. Okay, here we go.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, a little debate.

[Speaker 1]
Cipa. Cipa. Cipa.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
What's that mean?

[Speaker 2]
Putting to bed a few little debates.

[Speaker 1]
Let's put a few debates to rest here. Let's put a few debates to rest. Just a bit.

Let's... Let's... talk a little bit about arguments that people make.

It's not a full refutation of... rebuttal. It's not a full rebuttal.

I wouldn't call it rebuttal here. It's just like, you know, some people have some problems with what I said. Let's talk about it.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. Cipa pong.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. Yeah. Chungsay pong.

Okay, go... Ki... Ki...

Ki... Ki... Yeah.

By the way, when there's a apostrophe S there, the next word must be... it must be the beginning of the next word. Yeah.

Yeah, let's do that much, okay? Now, I like to... in the English, I like to keep a syllogism together.

But let's break it up. Okay, kacig nare. Somebody comes and says...

By the way, the verb is here. There's the subject and the sentence. And there's the verb.

Okay? And... I had a breakthrough with your text because I found a stare like three paragraphs below.

So, everything we did the other day was... Yeah. And I was trying to squish it into wrong words.

You know? Hopelessly, I was trying to put it into... Yeah, me too.

But I still don't understand it.

[Speaker 2]
Just the...

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Yeah, now it's a little easier. We just have to twist it the other way.

Okay, so anyway. Somebody makes the claim.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. Yeah, I'm sorry.

[Speaker 1]
I think that's where the stare goes. Okay. Kipasi.

Kipasi.

[Speaker 2]
For dog?

[Speaker 1]
How come it's not the bardo after a keeper? After a dog, right?

[Speaker 2]
If you say...

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, but how do you know that? It says dog... It says dog's pardo.

Huh? No, I'm just saying there's a... There's a...

What do you call it? There's a standard when you're talking about bardos. When you're talking about bardos, you always talk...

It's always the next being's bardo and not the last being's bardo. A dog's bardo could have been the bardo of a person who was a dog before. But it happens that in usage, the standard usage, is that you always mention what they're going to be.

Which means you have to translate it as a bardo being who's going to be a dog. Okay? Who's going to be a dog.

You just be aware this is the usage when you're talking about bardos. Okay? All it says in Tibetan is dog's bardo.

And you have to translate it as a bardo who's going to be a dog. Not a bardo who was a dog. Alright.

[Speaker 2]
That's why he doesn't have a beard. That's right, that's right.

[Speaker 1]
Well, when you nyingtsam djorwa, you lose the beard. Okay, what did I just say?

[Speaker 2]
Nyingtsam djorwa. When you cross the line.

[Speaker 1]
When you cross the border into the bardo, they take your beard. They take your beard and they put it on another dog. We had many bardo beings that were going to take rebirth as an old being.

[Speaker 2]
That actually has happened in this text.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, so kyu pa si tu, gyewa lang. Now this is a little difficult.

[Speaker 2]
Take birth?

[Speaker 1]
Who took birth?

[Speaker 2]
Bardo being?

[Speaker 1]
As a bardo being.

[Speaker 2]
As a bardo being.

[Speaker 1]
So, you know, it's kind of uncomfortable because rebirth normally means after bardo. But here he's saying when you take birth in the bardo as a dog to be. As a dog to be.

Okay? As a future dog. This can be something before to bardo or bardo to bardo, right?

It gets confusing because normally when you come out of the bardo you kyewa len. When you come out of the bardo you take a birth, right? But the verb here is talking about being born as a being in the bardo who's going to be a dog in the next life.

Okay, got it? Yeah, well, past tense of len. Once you have taken a birth as a bardo being who's going to be a dog, okay?

It's very confusing. I mean, you know, it would take years to figure it out. kye si du kyewa milang atah?

We can't call that a kye si, can we? A being at birth. A being at birth, okay?

We cannot call that a being at birth as one of the four kinds of beings, right? So who is this guy? What do we call that?

What do we call when you're born into the bardo? Can we call it kye si? Because that's supposed to be called parthi.

That's supposed to be called being in the bardo. But he also takes birth, so shouldn't you call him a being who's being born? Couldn't you have both of...

two of the four sipas at the same time? That's his debate. That's the other guy.

Okay. Yeah, but it is a dzutike. Okay, but it's not...

We're talking about the four sipas, not the four kinds of birth. Okay, wait, ne. Not the four locations of birth, which means the four types of birth.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, here we go. May I tell him?

[Speaker 1]
The wife is a parthi in between bardos too? Say again? Couldn't you describe what we call being alive as a parthi in between the bardos?

[Speaker 2]
Well, here we go.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, he's saying why can't you call the parthi a kye si? Why can't the parthi have a kye si also? They're supposed to be mutually exclusive.

But how come a being in the bardo doesn't have... it can't be called a being at birth in the first moment that he's in the bardo because he's taking sort of a birth? So the same argument applies to an in-between being as well, right?

Yeah, and the kye si also. You die from the bardo also. Okay, alright, so here we go.

kyi nama gyi phunpo kyi nama gyi phunpo drup che kyi nyong nge kyi len yin gyi pe che te Okay, kyi nama gyi phunpo drup che kyi len if something is the karma which is going to bring about the phunpos of a dog as it ripens, as the karma ripens, the body and mind, okay? Sometimes, I think, there are places, and you have to choose wisely, where you can translate heaps as body and mind. Like here, okay?

And it'll be so much easier for your reader. They don't have to jump over heaps. So, if something is the karma which is going to produce the body and mind of a dog as its karmic result.

Okay? It's gotta be. It has to be nyong ne kyi le.

Yeah, karma which must be experienced. Nothing's going to happen between it and the ripening, for example, the four powers, which is going to change it. Or it's not going to divert to another realm, or another rebirth.

But, in Stanley's text, it can. If it's not time for dogs to mate, you can be born as a gopher. Not a human.

That's not the example. Okay, you can go with your day. I think you could.

Karma which is sure to be experienced. Karma which is definite to be experienced. Okay.

And, if something is karma to be experienced, definitely, okay, it must be a type of karma where the karma to produce a dog is jawa, devoid of, it does not have, any condition which could contradict the birth as a dog, which could prevent the birth as a dog. If you call it karma which is certain to produce its result, then there can't be anything that happens in between, like it's not the right mating season for that animal, that would stop it. Okay, not possible.

RGYAL KHYEN. Okay, got it? And, not only that, so, it must be free of conditions which could prevent the birth, and it must possess all of the conditions which could cause the birth.

RGYAL KHYEN. Okay, so it must be, not have RGYAL KHYENs, and it must have complete tsangwa, all the RGYAL KHYENs must be there. Where do we often see RGYAL KHYEN?

In explanations of good meditation places. Okay, there's a whole list of RGYAL KHYENs. Yeah, you know, not a lot of bugs, you know, nobody talking next door, no garbage trucks.

Yeah, good friends, good food, okay, government doesn't try to stop you. There's a whole list of RGYAL KHYENs. We see RGYAL KHYEN with meditation.

But here, it's that if it's MYONG NAS, if it's definite karma, then all the things which would help it grow must be there, and none of the things that would stop it from growing could be there, okay? He said, okay? Okay, good, okay.

Therefore, it must be definite karma. Okay, and we're still in the KHA CIG. Okay, I split it, but you know, just because it's going to get three pages long.

But you still indent it in the English, okay? And if it's... yeah, go ahead.

... Yeah, if something is certain to produce a dog, if a karma is certain to produce a dog, okay, then if something is the karma which pens, yeah, projects into the future, as opposed to... yeah, fill in the details.

Does the dog have a nice beard or not? Like Juru...Juru? Jaru. He has a nice beard.

But we're not talking about that. We're talking about the karma which throws a dog, not the details of the dog, okay? His eyes are amazing.

One blue and one brown. One big blue eye and one brown eye. Which proves he's...anyway. PEN CIG GI LAS LA Then that karma which throws a dog, the body and mind of the dog, as its karmic result, okay? That karma which throws into the next life, projects into the next life, the body and mind of a dog as its karmic result, that must be SI LAS NUS PA THUG CHEN THUG BYAS PA It must have been made into LAS, which is NUS PA THUG CHEN Tremendous power. Tremendous power, okay? It has been made, it's been armed, armed, okay?

It's been, you know, made ready to blow up, like an atomic bomb. Somebody pushed the switch to start the starter. Okay?

THUG CHEN Why did he say SI LAS? We talked about it four or five times, but not today. Let me calm my nerves.

Actually, you should give me money for that answer. I'd like to pick on him. It's the karmic lotto thing, isn't it?

The karma for... What's the opposite of SI LAS? AYA DUJE KYI LAS Link number two.

Yeah. Don't forget, there's two karmas, yeah, there's two karmas in the wheel, there's two karmas in the wheel, number two and number ten. Okay, he specifically wants to talk about number ten, which is pregnant.

It's about to give a mooncake. Okay, totally ready to give a mooncake, okay? And it's THUG CHEN.

It's totally loaded, you know? Totally powerful. Totally ready to split open.

The seed is just... You're just touching the door to the kitchen. Okay?

THUG CHEN. Why is it totally ready to give its result? Because it has been SON DEPA by SEPA and LEN PA.

Yeah, link eight and nine, whichever it... whichever one or ones it may be, okay? Whichever one or ones it may be, have...

have armed it. Have... I don't know, you got to find a word.

Okay? Have pre-triggered it. Okay?

All right? YIN DGOS PA'I PHYIR. Okay?

It... It... It must be karma, which is fully armed.

Why? Because it's certain to give a result. Okay, that's his argument.

That's his KHYAB PA. If I say KHYAB PA LO, if I say KHYAB PA LO in four syllables or something, you're going to say something like, if something is SIL LAS, it must be NYONG NAS. That's the argument here.

Say it, say it in English. Yeah, if something is armed karma, it must be... Yeah, karma which cannot be stopped.

Too late to stop it. Too late to stop it. It's a very interesting argument.

If karma has been armed by not understanding karma or by... by doing coffee meditation, is it definitely going to open? And we say MAR KHYAB.

Not necessarily, okay? Karma can be... armed, ready to open, but it's still not certain it's going to go off.

Now, what's his... what are we going to say is an exception. Okay?

When you say MAR KHYAB... Yeah? How come it says what?

Yeah, I mean, that's a nice argument. I guess you could make the case that karma armed by... partially armed by initial desire, which means initial misunderstanding of the karma.

Yeah, that's all. Could you have advanced desire without the initial desire? That's pretty weird.

Yeah. Could you have initial desire and still do ten? Yeah, I think you could.

Yeah, you could still say, after eight, number ten has been armed. Yeah, you could go from eight to ten. Okay.

Because that really arms it. Okay. Then...

DUR MI NUSO. So, all we say is, if it's armed, it's not necessarily going to go off. Okay?

And... back at the tell...

[Speaker 2]
That's all we had to say.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, no more detail, thanks. You have to write it, okay? In Tibetan, and add it to the...

Okay? I mean, Ngawang Pao Dan did it, right? So, and then he says, by the way, nobody can say, I agree, way back at the first tell, which is right here.

Okay? Way back at the first tell, nobody could say, right. And he doesn't explain why.

Okay? So, he cheats us twice. He's not getting any money from me.

Okay? What was the original tell? Okay?

GYIS PAR TSUL TU KHYER BA LANG NAS KHYIS TSUL TU KHYER BA MI LEN PA GYIS PAR TSUL TU KHYER BA LANG NAS After you have taken the body and mind of a being who's going to be a dog, KHYIS TSUL TU KHYER BA MI LEN PA MED PA THAL KHYIS TSUL TU MI KHYER BA LEN PA MED PA THAL there's no possibility that you cannot then take a birth as a dog. Okay? Once you have taken on a dog's bardo, body and mind, it's impossible that you would not then take on the body and mind of a dog in the next life, in the life to follow, after the bardo.

Okay? Once you're born in the bardo as someone who's gonna be a dog, it's impossible that right after that you wouldn't be a dog, born as a dog. Yeah, he said, and it's not possible that you wouldn't be born as a dog, and we say, don't say that.

That's not true. It means there must be an exception. Okay?

Got it? And he does go on to the exception, to be fair to him. Okay?

To be fair to him. And it gets, and it gets complex. Okay?

We're about to to swim in the Abhidharmakosha.

[Speaker 2]
Okay?

[Speaker 1]
We're about to go for a swim in the Abhidharmakosha. Here we go. Kha chin.

[Speaker 2]
That's the Abhidharmakosha term. Lung.

[Speaker 1]
Lung. Okay. Somebody says, once you have taken a birth as a kiyabharsi, yeah, as a dog bardo, to be a dog bardo, that's going to be a dog.

There's no possibility that you will not be born as a dog, that you will not become a kisi of a dog. Okay? Impossible.

He says, and then he quotes Stanley Bandu. Then he quotes Stanley Bandu. Vasubandhu changed his name.

Vasubandhu. I like Stanley Bandu. Because the Abhidharmakosha says, min do teni chi sa o.

It's too late to stop it. You've got the smell eater. It's too late to stop it.

You have the smell eater. What's a smell eater? It's another name for a bardo being, because it's a spirit.

They survive on smells. they can live off of mooncake smells, they don't have to eat the mooncake okay, and it's also a name for a demon okay, gandharva, but it's also a name of a divine musician, so make sure you got the right one of the three, same word, gandharva, gandharva, gandharva means a smell okay, so but the divine musicians in heaven are also called jisa, well they're called gandharva and then you get this uncomfortable thing where the Tibetans feel they have to use stink eater for divine musician okay, because it's the same Sanskrit word, but it should be something like fragrance eater for them, you see I mean, got it?

Okay anyway, shesungpa che ser na, let's do this next line and then let's take a detour to Stanley's text and cover that verse for him okay, because it's supposed to prove that once you'd get a dog vital body, you have to be born as a dog, sorry you don't have to be born as a dog, I'm sorry yeah, even though the text of the Abhidharmakosha says you can't stop it, mindok, you can't stop it okay, you can't turn it back, you can't prevent it okay, but because the jisa is already there, the bardo being is already there, he took it out of context maybe, so let's go look at the context, but first let's see his dak okay, shesungpa che ser na, if you say that okay, if you make that argument okay, that it cannot be stopped because the Abhidharma says it cannot be stopped, our answer is, here we go, yeah now you have to phrase this correctly and I'll give you the two ways you could phrase it, I'll give you the two ways you could phrase it, you ready?

You have to phrase it correctly okay, that's an idea that the Vaibhashika believe therefore it's just made up, that's one way to read it, that's one way to read it okay, if you pause at dupe, that's the English okay, if you pause at dupe, the English is, that's just something that the Abhidharma people believe, therefore it's made up, which would cancel every idea in the Abhidharma okay, so please don't translate it, yeah good, good, yeah, you could pause at mawe and say, that's just an idea that was made up by the beliefs of the Vaibhashika, which doesn't cancel all their teachings on the four steps and the 22 powers and 18 categories, you see how you pause, where you pause in the Tibetan is crucial here okay, I know, dupitapa, read it as one phrase, dupitapa, that's just one of their weird ideas, but it doesn't, he doesn't want to say all their ideas are weird, so how you translate it is crucial okay, okay I'll tell you how you can't translate it, that's a belief of the Vaibhashika, therefore it's just made up, that's the wrong way to translate this sentence, the correct way to translate, pause at the mawe, sorry, yeah, it's just a made-up belief, dupitapa, of the Vaibhashika, meaning not all their ideas are made up, it's just one that is made up, got it, so that's a great example how phrasing could totally ruin the sentence, and that's why edit your text, okay, all right, yeah, it helps to know your translate before you translate, which is why you sit in classes for 10 years or 20 years, okay, okay, I'm gonna say went on a detour from here, well let's go look at, what's the date today, 16th?

17th, okay, okay, let's go to the Abhidharma, just for a second, okay, just to, just to see where we're headed, which means we have to go to Stanley Banda, and we're gonna look for Sugan, which was mentioned by Banda, and he called it a detour for Sugan Ji, no, Ji means, it's honorable, honorable Sugan, in Hindi, like Stanley Ji, Michael Ji, it's a respect word, okay, yeah, and here's our line, MIN DO DE NI CI SA OG, they are a smell eater, it cannot be stopped, okay, it's different spelling, same meaning, different, okay, and here's the punchline, okay, and we have to debate it, the PEMBA is combined, the PEMBA

[Speaker 2]
is combined, for $20, for $20, $10, $9, say it again, good, nice, how much did I say, $5, $20, say it again for everybody, the throwing karma, yeah, the throwing karma for the bardo being, and

[Speaker 1]
the throwing karma for the dog being, is the same karma, therefore, you, it's too late to stop, once he's in the bardo, he has to be a dog, why, the same karma is throwing both, one karma is throwing both, you can't separate it, one karma is throwing the bardo, and the dog, dog to be bardo, and the dog, that's a NABUD DHARMA DUG PA'I THAPA, yeah, OM MANI PADME HUM, we're supposed to prove this wrong, then there's hope of doing PO'A, you see, then there's hope that we could do PO'A or something, you know, maybe there's some drastic action we can take, yeah,

[Speaker 2]
if he believes in gopher detours, if he believes that you can be rerouted to gopher birth, yeah, I mean, in a way, the NABUD DHARMA disproves itself,

[Speaker 1]
okay, but we're not going there, okay, yay, PURKIN CHOK SHING ME DRAG CHANG, PRIYILA LING SHING YIN DE GYEN PA'I, SANGYE SHING DU MING TE U BAR GYI, DROGON NAMDAR SHING LA CHUG PAR SHOK, YIDAM GURU RATNAM HANDALAKAN NIRYATAYAMI, DGE BA GYI RGYAS HO KUN,

[Speaker 2]
SANG SNAM NYE ZHES TSOR TSOR SHING,

[Speaker 1]
SANG SNAM NYE ZHES LAS BYUNG BA'I, DANG PAR KUN NYID DO PAR ZHOG, By the way, just sitting in this class prevents a lot of, I call Dharma rumors.

You can't sit in this class and believe a lot of things that you hear in a yoga studio or something. You see what I mean? You're just like, no, what are you talking about?

I mean, nobody says that. Okay, yeah, okay, okay. All right.

Okay.