Классика Алмазного огранщика: Нижний Срединный путь — Анализ зависимости, занятие 43

[Speaker 1]
Before I begin the lecture, I'd like to remind you that my lecture is being recorded shall be explained the goal The goal is to do cultural mining, which means that when we listen to the ancient practices and when we receive the information, we need to come up with some life tools.

[Speaker 2]
And they need to have three elements. First is that you need to come up with a catchy name. And the second is that you need to find a fancy or beautiful photo to display the names.

And the third is... I don't know.

[Speaker 1]
It's to remember the first two.

[Speaker 2]
Electricity, gravity, and the ability of application. How you apply it in your business or in your life.

[Speaker 1]
From certain situations or problems. In like one page or less. With English.

In English or Romanian.

[Speaker 2]
Or you can connect it with the goals you want to reach or a problem you want to address.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, it's your homework. Homework time. There are two ways we can interpret the term...

Wait, explain your text to our guys. So there's ten texts we're working on. So this is the Will of Life.

It's a commentary of the Will of Life. And it is written by Ketratem Paderge, which is the textbook writer. The monastic textbook writer from the best monastery.

How many years ago? 500 years ago. And he wrote a lot of books.

In fact, those are pretty amazing. I'm so happy. And basically we focus a lot on the twelve links.

And we started from the first link, which took about three books. And now we're at link number seven. So there are two ways you can interpret the term Wang Po.

In the discussion of feeling and dependence. What are they? Wait, how much money is this worth?

I don't know what that means.

[Speaker 2]
That sounds like a classic bad joke.

[Speaker 1]
100 ringgit for you. How much is 100 ringgit? It's $3.

Neutral is neutral. So it didn't matter. This is called using the subject for the reason.

The illegal logic. That's sort of a classical presentation on the topic. I think you should be able to answer these.

No, that's not acceptable. Something better. If you're not feeling much, then you can't really define it.

Let me give you the answer. That's what everyone said.

[Speaker 2]
I feel like I mastered it by saying that.

[Speaker 1]
But that didn't matter. I think all of you are pretty familiar, right? The seven base.

And then... And then... The five sense of feeling.

And then...

[Speaker 2]
Enlightenment.

[Speaker 1]
And then... What are they called?

[Speaker 2]
What are those three?

[Speaker 1]
What does it mean? The things that make you enlightened. Having enlightenment.

The other group. Physical pleasure. Pain.

Mental pleasure. Bad mental. And finally...

Neutral feeling. That's all. Thank you.

Yes, I'll go back home. Okay, here we go. Yes, I'll go back home.

Okay, go. By the way, Sugeng probably has the best pronunciation in the room. So pay attention.

And criticize him if you can find him. Which is fine. You can ask Shinten.

[Speaker 2]
I accept comments.

[Speaker 1]
Kachiknare. Mindrewa. Mindrewa.

Kyurpe. Kyurpe. So what do we know from the last two words?

[Speaker 2]
It's wrong.

[Speaker 1]
Somebody proposes a definition and it's wrong. So serenam means somebody tries to propose a definition. There's something wrong with it.

What's fun is to try to figure out what's wrong with it before you read what's wrong with it. But nobody does. Okay.

Okay. Rangyudongwa. Its object appears as...

Pretty. Yeah, attractive. Something nice.

Okay, yiwong. Yiwong means goes to the mind. And it means attractive.

So something appears nice like this coffee. And then rangtoki.

[Speaker 2]
Power of its own.

[Speaker 1]
Which means what in the study of Buddhist psychology?

[Speaker 2]
It means it doesn't have to be inspired by another mind.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, it doesn't have to cooperate with another state of mind. By its own. Without needing to rely on another state...

Without coupling with another state of mind. By its own. Rangtoki.

Mindrewa. And it's connected. It does not a do.

It desires not to be apart from. Not to be separated from, yeah. But if that do was spelled with an e...

[Speaker 2]
It would be it desires to be apart from.

[Speaker 1]
Good. Okay. Very difficult.

Is that do usually not spelled with an awo? Is it a case or something? Say again?

There's an aw prefix. It's not usually not the case. That's true too.

And this is normally past tense. Okay, mindrewa dupe. But this is future because he doesn't want to be.

He doesn't want to lose a thing in the future. Semba. Thinking?

Yeah, what's the difference between sem and semba? Mind as opposed to like the thoughts of the mind. Yeah, yeah.

Okay, good. I think it's chitta and chaita. Okay, yanachuni.

The twelve links of dependent origination. Nangchen.

[Speaker 2]
It's one of them.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, sempa. Gepa sempa.

[Speaker 2]
Link number eight.

[Speaker 1]
We call it initial desire. Can anybody think of what's wrong with this? By the way, you can't get this one.

It's very sexy and it's weird. Okay, so let's just keep going. You could never guess.

It's going to be quite earth-shaking actually. So here we go. Yeah, by the way, we have moved on from seven to eight.

We're getting close to the end.

[Speaker 2]
Say again?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, it's just always called gepa sempa. It's not in the text. So the definition of the link of initial desire is that desire which is one of the twelve links and is a thought where you wish not to be separated from an attractive object.

And that mental function is operating on its own. And there's something wrong with this definition. And here it is, which is kind of earth-shaking, as I said.

Please read the second line here. You got 50% chance of getting it right. He did both.

This is our counterexample. It's got to go down. It's sarcastic.

DE YOD YOD LA THAL Yeah, are you telling me it has an object? What's it? Link number eight, initial desire.

By the way, these are the emotions that trigger karma to cause a rebirth. So these are important. These are specific emotions that trigger karma, that activate karma, and then they cause you to be.

If you didn't have them, you wouldn't have to take a rebirth. So are you telling me it has an object? Why?

Because it has an object which appears pleasant to it. It has an object which appears pleasant to it. Okay?

[Speaker 2]
Why are we mad that it has an object?

[Speaker 1]
Let's keep going. It's sexy. It's very interesting.

It's not something you would guess. It's not something you could have guessed. Then he says, yeah, it has an object.

I mean, it's a state of mind. All states of mind have objects. Then we say, if you agree it has an object, then we say, de na, shal ja.

You're telling me it has something that it considers? Okay, shal ja, which means to weigh something, right? Are you telling me that this desire has something that it's thinking about?

Well, why do you say that? Cicir, here. Cicir here, right?

Well, because you agreed it had an object. Okay, so shal ja and yul are synonyms. Something you're thinking about and object is the same thing, okay?

In Buddhist philosophy. It's in Adam's text. Then we say, he says, yeah, it is looking at something and thinking about it.

Yeah, du. And we say, de chu chen, which means take that sepa, take that emotion, okay? Kyu kyi shal ja, kyu kyi shal ja me bar, te, te.

This is our position. No, it doesn't have something it's thinking about because kyu nyonmong yinpe che. It's a negative state of mind.

Meaning, if a thing is a negative state of mind, it cannot have an object. I mean, we never saw anyone say something like that, especially lower middle way. It is wild.

There is this long, long, long Prasangika thing about for you to be angry at the husband, you must be misunderstanding the husband. And the husband you think you see there isn't there at all. So he's kind of anticipating the highest school.

It's not bad. It's kind of weird, though, to throw it in the middle of a Wheel of Life discussion. When you walk into the kitchen, you can only get angry at the husband who yells at you if you think he's not coming from you.

But if you think he's not coming from you, he doesn't exist. Therefore, there's no object of your anger. Therefore, no negative thought has an object.

Okay?

[Speaker 2]
That's pretty...

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, I mean, Tsongkhapa would say that. But we're in lower middle way. I don't know.

It's kind of uncomfortable. But it's cool. Uncomfortable and cool.

It's like a date with certain girl.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Sorry. Go ahead.

[Speaker 2]
If I were making a teaching tool, I'd be pretty worked up about this.

[Speaker 1]
Well, it's... What it means is all negative feelings about another person are insanity. That's pretty profound.

Yeah, it's like a drug hallucination. There's nobody there. Yeah.

I thought that was the mixed nuts room. Okay, go ahead. Let's go, let's go.

Okay, to understand this one, you've got to understand that number eight has some different variations. Yeah, one is the fear that you are dying, that you are falling apart. And that's called jikse.

Is this jik falling apart, or is it the jik that means fear? Fear. Yeah, this is the jik.

Jik with an S means fear. Jik without an S means falling apart. But this happens to be a fearful initial desire based on the fear that you're going to fall apart.

But they emphasize the fear, okay? Okay, sure. I thought that one was the fear that you're going to lose your existence itself.

Yeah, I'm disappearing. Oh no.

[Speaker 2]
Okay. As you die. Okay.

[Speaker 1]
So that's a special kind of desire at death, which is a fear that you are disappearing. Okay? And that triggers karmas.

That feeds karmas, and then they go off. So it's weird. It's a weird thing.

But he defined duse, which is initial desire in the form of desire. I want. Okay?

But this is initial desire in the form of fear. I'm falling apart. I'm disappearing.

Okay? So now he says, if your definition fits all number eights, then all number eights must have desirable objects. So is that fear that you're falling apart a desirable object?

You see what I mean? Got it? Okay.

There's other kinds of gyepas, serpas, where you're scared. And that object is not, in Tibetan, yidu onwa. Yeah, that's not attractive.

What you're saying, you defined link number eight as being attracted to an attractive object. First of all, it's not an object. Secondly, it doesn't have to be attractive, because sometimes you're scared about falling apart, and in that case, it's scary.

[Speaker 2]
Okay. Okay. Yeah, you can say that.

[Speaker 1]
You can say that. But the technical name is scared. Scared desire.

Okay? So the object cannot be yidu onwa, attractive. Okay, ready?

Let's translate it. Yeah. Yeah, with an S means scared.

Like, her name is Jigme, with an S. And without the S, it means to be destroyed. Like jikten loka, meaning the world, the destroyable world.

Jikten. Yeah, jikta, exactly. So the way I remember is jiksu nwa means scary.

That's how I remember it. Okay. With an S, it's scary.

Without an S, it's destroyed. Probably they're related. Okay.

All right. So anyway, Shenyang, moreover, he says, let's forget this the object doesn't exist thing. I'll let you keep the object.

But still your definition is lousy. Because you said it's attractive. You said yidu onwa.

Okay, so then we... Who's the person we're going to take? The old manji dog.

Yeah, and this is a joke in Buddhist philosophy when you want to say, you know, any idiot, you say, an old dog with a beard. Let's take an old dog with a beard. Okay.

In his mind stream, let's take his jikse, which is the form of link number eight where you are scared that you are falling apart and you're going to lose yourself. Okay. And it is of great fear.

When they put me under anesthesia, I'm like, whoa, where is Michael going to go? Okay. Jikse chudchen.

Take it. Tsenny de ta. Yeah, are you saying your definition fits that?

Why? Tsenja de chen. Because it is what we're defining, which is link number eight.

Okay. Well, why? Why is it link number eight?

Because you took it as a jikse. You're the one who said it was even. Okay.

Okay, in that case, my definition does fit it. Tsenny de ta? Duh.

Duh na. If you agree, you cannot agree, because... Yeah, and we don't explain it.

We just say, look, it's the kind of initial desire where you're scared. Yeah, and then we don't say it's not a pleasant experience. But it's understood.

Yeah, yeah, okay. By the way, it's not that the object was pleasant. It was that it appeared pleasant.

Okay, just... Technically, he added the word appeared. Okay.

Now, chen yang means... I'm going to keep picking on the same definition. The chen yang means moreover.

Moreover. He's got a third problem with the definition. Here we go.

sak chen gyi tsor wa tang nyom tang nyom tang sung den du gyur pe shepa chen yi der tao sung ja de chen der tao der tao Yeah. Okay. chen yi der tao sung ja de chen Good.

sak chen gyi tsor wa the feeling, the impure feeling which is tang nyom which is neutral. Yeah. I mean, that'd be interesting to try to give an example of it.

I don't know. Impure neutral feeling. Wasn't anything?

Wouldn't it be anything? Right? Someone who wasn't an arhat?

Yeah, I guess an Arya at least, right? A neutral feeling which is by someone who is not an Arya. Yeah, okay.

And let's take the shepa which is linked to it mentally in five different ways, right? But sung den means linked mentally which means it's not rang tok. Anyway, let's take the initial desire which is linked to an impure feeling which is neutral.

Neutral feeling. I don't feel strongly either way. chen yi der chen Are you telling me your definition fits that?

Why? Because it is the eighth link. sung ja It is what you are defining.

There is such an eighth link where you have initial desire but you just kind of feel neutral about the object which means it's not yi duong wa and it's not jigs. It's not fearful. Yeah, and it's not scary.

Okay, it's just neutral. But traditionally there's only two kinds? Well, now there's a third kind.

I believe there's three. Yeah, here we go.

[Speaker 2]
How do we call number eight its initial desire? Isn't that going to be confusing for our dear reader? The link is called desire.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, it is. But in Tibetan it is called desire. Desire.

Sepa is desire. Sepa is desire. Yeah, sepa by the way, the difference between dopa and sepa.

So dopa is more desire and sepa is more attachment usually. Usually. But we're going to call it initial desire.

Okay, okay. And by the way, I got that translation from Ken Rinpoche many, 30 or 40 years ago. And then I have confirmed it in Vasubandhu and it's a good translation.

du mi ni te You can't agree on that? Yeah, because chu chen de yinpye che. Yeah, you cannot agree that this neutral feeling is link number eight.

Because you gave the example of an attractive object.

[Speaker 2]
So are we saying that this is a good example actually but that somehow it wouldn't meet his definition?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, yeah. We're saying that this is that sun jang. This is link number eight.

It's a third variation where you're feeling neutral. Okay. The lesson of the story is that the final karmas of your life that activate your karmic seeds, that change link two to link ten, that change the pots to the pregnant lady, are not necessarily desire.

They can be fear. They can be a neutral feeling. Yeah, yeah.

Okay. Even though the general name is desire. Okay.

So this pang nyok is not a problem, right? I mean... Yeah, apparently you can have...

It's not wrong. I mean, the culture is not really wrong.

[Speaker 2]
Right. Just think about it, right? Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
And we're going to have the divisions of gyepa sepa later in Rang Ruk. And it's going to say do se, and jig se, and there's a third one. Su se.

Su se, which is what? S-R-I-D? Oh, si se.

Si se. Yeah, si se, three. Okay, we'll explain it when we get there.

Okay? We didn't get to Rang Ruk yet. By the way, the Rang Ruk, as I remember, is going to cover two or three links together.

Okay? All right. Pachignale, yamlak nipa nidu che kile la sok...

Sundep. ...la sundep che kirang ki, mikpala mingdrel, wartipe, sempa, yamlak chungi, kinang sen, dugyurpe, sepe, pendrel, kinak, kisen, mir, ser. Okay, cool.

The word I really want you all to learn here is sundep. What's it mean?

[Speaker 2]
Lottery. So long.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, that's the one where it triggers the bomb. What do you call it? It activates the bomb.

The bomb doesn't go off yet, but it turns on the timer.

[Speaker 2]
Detonator. Yeah, the detonator.

[Speaker 1]
Not the nuclear weapon, the gunpowder that makes the nuclear weapon go off. It activates, yeah. So we're talking about links eight and nine, which turn the fresh karma from link two into activated bomb, about to go off, which is ten.

And then when it goes off, when she goes off, it's eleven, which is rebirth. So these two are important. By the way, in the highest school, what's the sundep for your fresh karma that makes it pregnant karma?

Misunderstanding? Yeah. Very beautiful, very interesting.

Misunderstanding how it works feeds it. If you understood seeds perfectly, you could have seeds in your mind to take more pain, but they would never go off. And that's an arhat.

That's an arhat. That's a person who doesn't have to have pain anymore. You see?

They have seeds, but the seeds will never go off because they don't have food. And the food for a bad seed is misunderstanding it, which is very interesting. What's the food for a good seed?

Yeah, rejoicing, being happy that you planted it. Okay, it's very interesting. Misunderstanding it makes it malignant.

The detonator is the food. Okay, here we are. Kaji nare.

Okay, so this sundep, so I want you to learn this word, sundep. This is the so in sojong, by the way, right? To fix, to refresh your vows in the monk's and nun's ceremony, Vinaya ceremony.

But here it means to fix or refresh the evil seed. And dep is a verbalizer, a refresher. Okay, so sundep.

Che, doer, refresherizer. Okay. This mikpa means you.

But maybe if you say mikpa, it allows for false objects. Maybe. What you think you see.

Maybe. Maybe he's going there. And by the way, in all definitions of dupa, they talk about mendowa dupa.

You don't want to lose it. So almost the definition of desire in Buddhism is you don't want to lose it. Yeah, yeah, you don't want to lose it.

Yeah, that's true. You don't want to lose it. And it happens to be, he's being careful, right?

He didn't say, sepe tendrel kutseni. He said, yen la chu nyi kyi nang tsen tu gyur pe sepe tendrel kutseni. He didn't say that's the definition of desire.

He said that's the definition of desire as a link in the twelve, which is technically covering his ass. Good debate format. But the serna indicates something wrong.

There's something wrong with it. Then we kind of are hitting on the same thing that we did above. Here we go.

Yen la chu nyi kyi nang tsen tu gyur pe sepe tendrel kutseni. Du she yin gyur pa kye pa. Dang chak tepe kyi.

Yeah, and by the way, maybe it would be nice to... Yeah, do I have pictures?

[Speaker 2]
Here's a traditional wheel. Well, let's do it this way.

[Speaker 1]
Here's a traditional wheel. Okay, that might help. So we're talking, we're here.

Sorry, we're here. And the traditional painting is of a guy overeating. And it means initial desire.

Then when the desire gets stronger, you got the monkey trying to pull a fruit off the tree. And then when they have sundep, you got a pregnant lady. And then she gives rebirth.

And then you die. And this is where you planted the karma, way back here. We were making pots.

Okay, okay. Okay. So, please read.

Oh, sorry, okay. Oh, no. Well then, yin na chuk yin tsen tu gyur pe sepe yin na.

If something is initial desire acting as one of the twelve links, okay, are you telling me it must be initial desire in the sense of wanting? In du se, in the sense of wanting. Are all link aids wanting?

And we already covered this point. Okay, are all link aids wanting? Du, du se, which is one of the three kinds of sepa.

Okay. And then he says, well, why do you say that? And we say, because your definition is a good definition, and you said, min drawar du.

I don't want to be separated from that object. I want to keep it, okay?

[Speaker 2]
You want to not be separated?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, I want to not be separated. I don't want to be separated. Okay, dam ca tepe che, because your definition was correct.

Your assertion, which is not the same as, dam ca is not the same as, dam chik, right? He had dam chik, which was, what, pledge, samaya, and then here's dam ca, which means to make a, to make an assertion.

[Speaker 2]
Do you use dam ca to pledge sometimes?

[Speaker 1]
They sometimes do, I think, yeah. Okay, then he says, yeah, okay, so if it is link number eight, it's always involved with wanting something. And we say, you can't say that, because, because there's fear.

[Speaker 2]
There's a fear kind.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, there's the fear kind of link eight. Okay, what's the ter gyur mean? Which acts as, which acts as, that.

What's that? Link number eight. Link number eight.

Okay, so we say you can't agree that all forms of number eight are wanting something or not wanting to lose something, because there's also forms of number eight, okay, ter gyur, things which are it, things which are eight, which are frightened, you're frightened. Okay, so that's not wanting, that's not not wanting to lose, that's wanting to lose. Okay, that's wanting to get away.

[Speaker 2]
It wasn't in the example we just gave. Huh? In the example we just gave, the fear that we specifically discussed was the fear of losing.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay.

[Speaker 2]
It's just playing on the name that's going on.

[Speaker 1]
No, it's a, it's not necessary that desire, as a link number eight, wants something. It could be that it doesn't want something. That's all.

That's all he's saying. You know, it's a misnomer. The name of the link is not precise.

It's not always desire. Sometimes it's wanting to get away from something. Okay.

And again, we're just going deeper and deeper into the wheel. And if you have another 20 years to work with me, we could do Vasubandhu's commentary, which is sexy. And that's where you see Vasubandhu let loose in his true identity.

Yeah, he's not a little Abhidharma guy. Then he's a fierce tiger discussing the wheel of life. And it looks like a different guy.

It looks like a totally different guy.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Really?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
I've done a rough translation, and it's doable. It'll just take a long time. I'm not sure you want to spend your whole life on the wheel of life.

You might want to do something else. I don't know. But it's up to you.

Okay, here we go. Shenyang. Low tone.

Shenyang. Shenyang. A hundred dollars.

Difficult, but interesting. A hundred dollars. Take your time.

Don't start an okay word until you have it. It's irritating when people wander around. They still expect a hundred dollars.

So the first part is a sarcastic statement. Are you telling me that what?

[Speaker 2]
That if it were like that, it would have to be the cause for the second link.

[Speaker 1]
That's weird. Are you telling me link eight's function is to cause link two? Right.

Okay, he's $50 so far. If it were like that, it would have to be the thing that triggers it. No, this is...

Yeah, good. Because it would have to trigger it.

[Speaker 2]
Because it triggers it. Good.

[Speaker 1]
I'd say 80 bucks. Okay. It kind of wandered around a little bit.

But what's the objection? What's the objection? What's he saying?

That link eight is link one. Good. Yeah, kind of.

Are you telling me link eight causes link two? So maybe we should call link eight link one? Why?

Because it activates link two. Which means it comes before link two. Okay, got it?

It's the activator. All right. Then the guy says, yeah, okay, I'll go along with that.

Link eight causes link two because it activates it. So link eight does something to link two, which means it's a cause of link two in a way. It makes it powerful.

It makes it ready to go off. So therefore, I agree. Link eight is the cause of link two.

I agree. The guy. I mean, it's kind of weird.

The wheel's going to get kind of twisted up. And then we say, did we need a day? Yeah, link eight can't cause link two because link eight is causing link eight.

[Speaker 2]
That's not great.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, I mean, it's an interesting argument. Does link eight cause link eight? No.

Yeah, all things are the cause of the continuation of themselves. You see what I mean? It's just, he's kind of going off.

Unless link eight lasts for one sixty-fifth of a second, link eight does have some continuation. In which case, earlier parts of link eight are causing later parts of link eight. So if link eight's causing link eight, link eight can't be causing link two.

That's miserable. Totally miserable. Write a letter to him.

I'll give you his address. Yeah, wait. Listen to Sugeng.

He has an interesting theory. I mean, we can use this to theorize that this is the cause of link two on the next wheel. Yeah.

Don't forget the wheels are not going like this. They are going... Yeah.

Third, third, third. Like, boom, boom, boom. So he's saying, consider another wheel.

Because nobody in here said, in one turning of the wheels. Yeah, okay. So that's a pretty good theory.

You can put that in your doctoral thesis.

[Speaker 2]
So then every link is the cause of every other link?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. But I love that image of... And really, that's how you're supposed to think of the wheel.

You're not supposed to think it goes like this. 1 and 2, first line. 3 through 8, second line.

3 through 8? 3 through 10.

[Speaker 2]
3 through 10.

[Speaker 1]
3 through 10 and 11 and 12. Yeah, and then 11 and 12. So it's...

Okay, here we go.

[Speaker 2]
The cause.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, now he went on to your subject. He is agreeing with you. Because sar chik means...

Yeah, considered as a single wheel. Okay? Taken as a single wheel.

tendrel sar chikpo If we restrict ourselves to one spin, wang chuk chepa means with relation to. So wang chuk chepa is an idiom. It doesn't have anything to do with power.

It just means relative to a single turning. Relative to a single spin. Okay?

The link 8, relative to a single spin of the wheel, and link 9 are mingel. Are not the same thing. They are the same thing, right?

Mingel. Not contradictory. Yeah, one thing can be both.

Okay? Now, Serner. It's wrong.

Yeah, it must be wrong. Like we can breathe a sigh of relief. Oh, it's wrong.

Why? I don't know, but it's wrong.

[Speaker 2]
Okay? Because there are 11 links.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, so... Right. He's saying, relative to one spin, there must be things that are both 8 and 9.

Right. Okay? It must be that they're not contradictory.

In which case, they should have made 8 and 9 into one link. As they did with... 12.

Link 12. Death and... Old age and death.

Okay? Okay, cool? Here we go.

Now, before you start reading, decide if you're going up or down in your tau. And don't wander around. And don't go, tau.

And don't go, tau. For me, it should be down. It should be down.

[Speaker 2]
Unless he agrees with the wrong statement.

[Speaker 1]
Well, this is us, and we're coming back with, it is gyawa.

[Speaker 2]
They are contradictory. So, shhh.

[Speaker 1]
Down means sarcastic. Yeah, up is when we believe it. When you go up, it's, I believe it.

It is too! I mean, when you argue with Shinten at home, right? It is too!

You go up. Yeah, he said not contradictory, so we say, it is too contradictory! No, up.

Down is sarcastic, up is, I believe. We don't believe, right? We do believe.

I'm saying it's not.

[Speaker 2]
They are guys.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, but we are believers. Okay, yeah, so now you know you should go up. Okay, go up.

Here he goes. He's going up. Then you go up.

Tell? Tell?

[Speaker 2]
Go up.

[Speaker 1]
Which is, in English, you say, the same tone of voice. They are too contradictory! They are too, T-O-O is the high tone.

They are too contradictory. Why? And here you see a justification for Ken Rampage's translation.

Here you see a perfect justification for Ken Rampage's translation. Yeah, they are contradictory because, relative to a single spin, if something is number eight, sorry, nine, if something is the number, link nine, which is called taking, then, with regard to the same single turn, tem means ten dots are cheap. Again, with regard to a single link, he's being super careful.

He's a debater in the debate ground. He's saying, I'm still talking with regard to a single spin. The eight, okay, nine is the power of the eight.

It's the increase. Nine is eight in an increased form. Nine is the chair power.

It's the great increase of eight. Therefore, they are contradictory. You can't have an ungreatly increased link, which is the same as the greatly increased link.

So they must be contradictory. You can't, because the definition of, the very essence of one is that it didn't explode yet, and the essence of the other is that it exploded already. So you can't say there's one link which is exploded and unexploded.

So the first one never fluctuates in its explosiveness? Not chair. Not greatly.

And then nekap means the point at which. Nekap means the point at which. Yeah, the point at which it is already greatly pregnanted.

What do you call it? Triggered? Inspired?

Yeah, anyway, the point is eight and nine are contradictory because by definition, one is not expanded yet, and the second one is already hugely expanded, and it's about to create a pregnant woman. It's about to create a bomb that's ready to go off. Okay, got it?

Therefore, they may be the same content, but the degree is so different, we have to say they're contradictory to each other. Okay, got it? They're both duchak here.

They're both desire. But one is so greatly increased that we have to call them different entities. Okay, got it?

How does the duchak fit in? Because he's not saying they are... It's kind of, we're going back to calling them both desire, which is what we just complained about.

But since it's us, it's okay. It's the duchak before the trigger. You've got to say those two things.

Yeah, this is desire at the point at which it has greatly increased. And the other is desire at the point at which it hasn't greatly increased. Therefore, no one thing can be both.

Okay? It's like a woman in her third trimester and a woman in her first trimester. It cannot overlap.

Yeah, yeah.

[Speaker 2]
Okay. I think that they exist in one, but they're not contradictory. When you think about the definition of contradictory, it's just to be in opposition to each other.

They are not in opposition to each other. They're just not the same person.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, you could say that. Well, I don't know. Then you've got to get into the definition of contradiction.

That's a long story. We'll wait for Adam's take. Okay.

Now he's going to relate the degrees of desire to the pictures. To the pictures. Okay?

What are the pictures? This guy's just having a mellow dinner at Rustica. This guy's at the bar going crazy.

Okay? So he says, Dear Thal, there is too a big difference in degree. Because...

Yeah. Dear Thal, they are contradictory. There are differences in degree, because there's two totally different pictures prescribed by Sungs.

Lord Buddha. Whenever you see, it was spoken. It means Buddha.

If Buddha bothered to make two different pictures, then don't tell me they're not different. What's the first picture? Drinking alcohol.

Chang tungwa. There's a beer called Chang in Chinese, right? Thailand.

Chang something.

[Speaker 2]
Chang beer.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Anyway, Chang means all kinds of alcohol. So number eight, which is initial desire, is compared to having a sip of beer.

So I said the guy was eating breakfast, but he was having a beer, okay?

[Speaker 2]
This guy.

[Speaker 1]
Again, these wheels were painted by some children, because I needed a lot of them for a program. I couldn't afford to have them done by a painter. And lempa, number nine, read shing tok together, and it means fruit.

So it's dangerous because shing means wood, or shing can mean ant. But when you see it next to tok, you have to read it together. Shing tok.

Fruit, lempa. It's trying to take, okay? Trying to take.

So that lempa is literal. He's taking. Nyi so so sum.

Yeah, Buddha took the trouble to make them separate. So they must be contradictory, because they are so different in degree. Okay, got it?

Otherwise there wouldn't be two pictures. If they were not contradictory, the Buddha wouldn't have made two pictures. But the Buddha did make two pictures.

They must be contradictory. Okay, got it? Say again?

Yeah, that's a good question. You want to actually apply it to your life. Drinking beer and eating fruit?

[Speaker 2]
That would be terrible. For one.

[Speaker 1]
I believe one possible answer would be, you're in the hospital, you're sick, you're very sick. Yesterday, this kid that had the brain operation, it's bad. He will die within a few months.

The recovery rate is zero. And so going into the operation, he's had some awareness, he's had some fear that maybe he won't survive or something will go wrong. And now he's sure.

So I'd say those are the two degrees. In that case, the desire not to lose his life is now very strong, because the prognosis is zero percent recovery rate. There's never been anyone recovered from that degree of a brain tumor.

So I'd say he's at lempa. But yesterday he was at sepa. Everybody had hope.

His parents were hoping something would go right. So I'd call sepa and lempa. Kachinare.

Yeah, I don't know why he went here, but he's talking about the word lempa, which is the name of number nine, which is taking. Literally, it's not called advanced desire. It's called taking.

Eight is called desire, wanting. Nine is called taking. We're going to translate them as initial desire and advanced desire.

But he wants to talk about the word nyewar lempa, which we've seen has many, many different meanings. It's a greasy, slippery, pig word. Difficult to grab.

What's it mean with pumbos, with your body and mind? Yeah, taken on at birth. What's it mean with kins?

Nyerlengi kin. The material cause over result. The seed as opposed to the tree.

But in the study of emptiness, it means to take the husband as existing. So there's three kinds of take. Closely take.

Nyewar lempa. Upa lempa. Take on at birth.

Take the husband as existing. Yeah, and take as the material cause. So he wants to play with that.

And it's kind of a last hurrah because... Yeah, then we get this section which is boring, which we just tell the guy what's correct. And we're done.

So Tibetan and Buddhist pedagogical theory is that when you teach a student, don't tell them what's correct. Make them struggle with what's wrong for a long time. And then they should be able to write the definition, correct one, from having learned all the defective definitions.

And it's a nice system. What's the third step of that pedagogical system? Let them come back and say some other objection.

Yeah, let the other guy come back and attack you again. Allow an attack from your audience, which is a kind of maturity in a teacher. That means you're confident as a teacher.

Who wants to attack me? Go ahead. Go ahead.

You got any questions about my presentation? Let's hear them. And that's a kind of a confident teacher.

So the Buddhist system is that, number one, let them come and propose ideas and knock them down. And then number two, tell them what's the correct idea. But number three, let them come back and attack you in the same way you attack them.

And that's part of learning. That has to be part of learning, according to Buddhist learning theory. And I like it.

I think it's cool. All right, so we're going to save that last argument here. We're going to save it here.

Okay, Japanese buddhism. What's the date? Five-nine.

Okay. Okay. Sastri-pukhi-jo-shin-me-to-jam ri-ra-ling-shin-yun-den-gen-pa-ni sang-ye-shin-du-mik-te-u-ar-gi dok-kun-nam-dak-shin-la-ju-par-so yi-nam-gu-rak-nam-na-la-kam-nyu-ya-ta-ya-mi ge-wa-ki-gi-ke-wo-kun san-nam-ye-she-so-so-shin san-nam-ye-she-ne-ju-we dam-pa-kun-ni-to-par-so Thank you, Sugen.

Thank you for being so persistent to continue this text and flying so far and bringing your cook with you. We have a meeting Saturday, okay? We have to give you all of it.