Классика Алмазного огранщика: Нижний Срединный путь — Анализ зависимости, занятие 38

[Speaker 1]
So, in this lecture, I'm going to talk a little bit about how to get rid of the unwillingness to get rid of the unwillingness of learning how to do things step-by-step. So, first, let me start by talking about the physical properties. In the 60s, when the Buddha was studying the Buddhist teachings, I love you.

Oh yeah, Shaka.

[Speaker 2]
To Shaka.

[Speaker 1]
Wait, explain it for your Japanese. Explain it, explain it. In English please.

[Speaker 2]
Listening, contemplating and meditating.

[Speaker 1]
Thank you.

[Speaker 2]
Yes.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. With regards to the statement that there still exists love...oh sorry, all questions below are related to the 8 leisures and 10 opportunities. So with regards to the statement that there still exists love in the world for others, what is considered as very rare in the context...

[Speaker 2]
Answer!

[Speaker 1]
No, no, more rare, more rare.

[Speaker 2]
People who deserve? Yeah, people who deserve context.

[Speaker 1]
People who honor their vows are rare. Even rarer are the people who honor those who honor their vows. Ah, that's right.

Alright, that makes sense.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, what consists of several rare?

[Speaker 1]
People who keep their vows are rare. People who respect their vows are rare. And people who respect people who respect their vows are even more rare.

People who respect people who respect their vows are more rare than people who respect their vows. And people who respect their vows are rare. Because who knows all these vows?

No one ever translated them. She's translating all the vows. She's recovering the nun vows after a thousand years.

Don't brush your hair anymore. Just kidding. That's a nun's vow.

[Speaker 2]
We had it yesterday.

[Speaker 1]
Your haircut looks great today. Not you, not you.

[Speaker 2]
So, what consists of the central land? A place where the poor men talk. You know, poor sheep.

[Speaker 1]
Nice.

[Speaker 2]
You know, women. You know, women.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, nice. All parts of Sangha ordained male, ordained female, unordained Buddhist male, unordained Buddhist female. Nice.

But that's not what it says on the precepts. Bonus question. What is the relative size of the central land?

Oh man, that's a tough question.

[Speaker 2]
It's small.

[Speaker 1]
No, there was a metaphor.

[Speaker 2]
There's a metaphor. That's right. You're not going to remember all this stuff, are you?

You got it.

[Speaker 1]
The stuff of cartwheels. Cartwheels. All right.

The places in the world that have Buddhism are as a tire's width, compared to the width of the sky itself. Bad news, bears. The scriptorium is small.

The world is big.

[Speaker 2]
It's about the size of the whole world to the scriptorium.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, Tibet. Yeah. Whoa.

Appearance. Only listening in name of four parts of Sangha.

[Speaker 2]
What?

[Speaker 1]
I think the computer got shorted out. No, no, come on. Oh, I've never heard.

Oh, cool. People never heard the word Buddhism, for example. Yeah.

In this case, it's just that people have never even heard the name. Of the book. Appearance, central land, and the four parts of the Sangha.

[Speaker 2]
Yikes.

[Speaker 1]
Just take all the words. You got some sleep. Nope.

He either got sleep or he got no sleep at all. And he's running on coffee. Okay.

Thank you.

[Speaker 2]
What did I just do? Well, that... You just messed up all the questions.

Well done.

[Speaker 1]
Thank you, thank you.

[Speaker 2]
You paid attention.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, I'd like to welcome today's guests. Alex Rowland from a place called America. Who has used DCI to have a very successful real estate business.

And it's growing very well. And she's very generous, and she supports a lot of our activities. And in Thailand this year, 600 people came to the retreat.

Jasmine works all year to get the 600 people there. And then we surwah them.

[Speaker 2]
Press them.

[Speaker 1]
We squeeze them for donations. And this year we got $300,000 in donations from the people at the retreat. She's amazed.

Look, Siri. And when I say fundraising, she turns on. And $90,000 of that money went to the translators.

To you guys. To pay for your scholarships, etc. So, you know, there's one person who works most of the year to do all the accounting, keep all the records.

And they, you know, not like other places. The Thailand retreat has perfect accounts. And they're very careful.

And they give us exactly how many pennies. And they do it very quickly. And all of that is Lisa Lee.

So you have to kiss her feet on the way out. Okay. Give her some mixed nuts at least.

All right. Here we go. I suggest we go back one line, just to get the debate.

Yeah, we should have a mascot flag. Please read, Mr. Sengeng. His accent is the best, one of the best in the room.

Indonesian-Tibetan. Indonesian-Tibetan. Yeah, good.

So we got the Wheel of Life. It has 12 parts. The fifth part is...

We've been discussing this. Yeah, the sense powers. For example, eye, ear, nose, tongue, body.

Okay. Before they hook, before they meet objects, because that's number six. Okay, so link number five in the Wheel of Life is just your blank eye, for example, waiting to see something.

Okay? And then he says here, the debate is, if something is the eye power of an old bearded dog. And this is in debates, when you want to say anybody in the world, you say also, old dog.

It means everybody in the world. It's just a way to say everybody in the world. You say, if even an old dog has this, then everybody's got it.

Okay? So it's a joke. It's a debate joke, but it's an old one.

It's like a thousand years old. Take this mangy old dog. Okay?

Consider his eye sense power. Okay? It must be link number five.

It must be. Okay? If he's in samsara, which he is, if he's an old dog.

If he's a young dog, maybe he's not, I don't know. Like Nate's dog. How do you say it?

Juru? Jaru. Me and Veronica were trying to figure it out last night.

Jaru. Jaru. Anyway, he must be in samsara, right?

So his eyes must be link number five. Right? That's what the other guy says.

And we're going to argue against that. It's weird. Okay?

It doesn't say number five here, though, does it? Yeah. Well, no.

Of the twelve links, yenlak chu nyi ki nang sen, duk gyur pe kye che kyi. Kye che kyi tendrel means number five. Tendrel used after the word means link number.

Okay? Tendrel by itself means dependent origination. Okay?

But the name for the links is also dependent origination. So it's confusing. Okay?

So it must be the link of kye che, which is number five. So that dog's eyes must be... And then nang sen duk gyur pe means as a link of the twelve.

As a link of the twelve. Nang sen duk gyur pe. Okay?

It must be. Which implies that there are eyes that are not links of the twelve, like Buddha's eyes. Okay?

Right? Sha yi chen, the five eyes. Chen na, five eyes of a Buddha.

Okay? Alright. So that's the debate.

And it sounds like something we would agree with. You see? An old dog's eyes must be eyes...

must be the link of sense organs in the twelve links. Okay? It sounds reasonable.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. Here we go. Here's our response.

kyi gen gyal yi gyu kyi tendrel yanlak sungyi kyi nang sen duk gyur pe sorwa gyu du du kyi gen gyal yi mik kyi kye che kyi tendrel chö chen der thal dey chir Yeah. Okay.

[Speaker 2]
Chö chen dey yin pey chir.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. kyi gen gyal means old dog. gyu means in his person, or in his being.

Okay? It doesn't always mean mind stream. What's the Sanskrit for gyu?

Santana. Santana. Okay.

Okay. Okay. gyu kyi tendrel yanlak chun yi kyi nang sen duk gyur pe the sorwa, the feeling, which is link number?

Seven. Okay. The feeling, which is in his...

which he has, okay? Which is, you know, one of his twelve links of the dog, number seven. gyu du kyi...

What's gyu du mean? The time of the cause. Yeah.

And what does that normally refer to gyu du, in the sense of the Wheel of Life? Shading link?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, the link as a cause.

[Speaker 1]
Uh... Yeah, or you could say wheels. Wheels create wheels.

Wheels trigger wheels. You see? So, the first two links in the first wheel trigger the next eight links, I think, in the second wheel, and they trigger the next two links in the third wheel.

Okay? So really, when you talk about the Wheel of Life, you're talking about three wheels triggering each other. Okay?

So, if you look at the middle wheel, the first wheel becomes gyu du, you know? So, for example, your past life's link number one and number two, which are misunderstanding the pen, and making fresh karmic seeds, planting seeds, but they're not fat yet. Okay?

Those two came in your last life, and that's called a gyu du, okay? Those are links, gyu du, those are causal links, and then they cause this eight links of this life, okay? And then those cause the two links in the next life.

By the way, when you say eight links of this life, it's the time it takes for the seeds to get fertilized, and pumped up, especially by link number eight and nine, which makes them fat like link number ten, the pregnant lady, okay? All right, so, gyu tu kyi. So, tsobwa gyu tu kyi kye kyang gyelwa min kyi kye chu kyi pen na chu chen.

[Speaker 2]
Consider the link number five, called the sense of the eye.

[Speaker 1]
Sense of the eye from the point of view of causing a feeling. I think where he's going is, is there an eye present two links later? Is there, okay, what's link number five?

The eye, let's say the eyes, okay? What's link number six? The eye makes contact with a maple-covered donut.

Okay, and then at link number seven, yeah, you have a good feeling about it, okay? Is the eye still present at number seven?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, so where do you include that eye?

[Speaker 1]
In which link? No, at the time of the, you know, being happy that you got the donut, where's the eye, E-Y-E? Link seven.

It's in link seven, because you're still looking at the donut. Okay, got it? The first eye happened two seconds ago.

Then that eye made contact with the donut, and now you've got a good feeling about the donut. But the feeling in number... Seven.

Sorry, the eye in number seven is driving the feeling in that moment. Okay, in that moment. So which, now here's the punchline, which link is it?

[Speaker 2]
I'm trying to think of a trick. Does that mean the eye?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, when you're looking at the donut, and you're feeling good about it.

[Speaker 2]
You'd have to say it's seven, or you wouldn't feel good about it.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, yeah, it's a subset of link seven. I think that's where it's going. Your eye's still operating at the time of link number seven.

Okay? Or else you couldn't see the donut. And you wouldn't feel good about it.

You wouldn't feel good if someone took it away, you can't see it anymore.

[Speaker 2]
It depends on whether they put it in my mouth.

[Speaker 1]
Anyway, that's the idea. Gyu-due-ki. Okay?

So this gyu-due is basically referring to the causal of the link number seven, which is five here, right? I take it that way. I take it that way.

It's hard. This debate's a little hard. We might want to sit with it.

You might come up with a better version of it than this is my version. Ki-gen. What it means is, just because your name is contact, for example, doesn't mean you're not happening at link number seven, for example, even though you are technically link number six.

So where do we put you on? Okay? Alright?

Okay. Ki-gen. gyel mi-kyi kye chik ten dro che chen der ta.

Okay? So are you telling me that the eye, sense power, that's going on during the link of feeling, is number five? Because you said up here, if it's the eye, it has to be number five.

You said if it's the eye, it has to be number five. Then we say, well, let's take the eye that's driving the good feeling about the donut. Is it happening at link number five?

Because if it is, you haven't seen the donut yet. Because link number six is when you make contact with the donut. So not all eyes in the Wheel of Life are number five.

Some are going on at seven. That's our debate. Back to him.

Okay? Look that from the cause of the feeling, gyu tu, of the present moment, he's present. The eye is present.

Meaning it's going on at link number seven. Link number five stopped two links ago. So it cannot, that eye cannot be included in link number five.

We said all eyes are number five. Then he said, take the eye when you're looking at the donut and you have a good feeling about it. Is that number five?

Yes. So it's number five in number seven? Yes.

So the Wheel of Life happens all at the same time? Okay, like that's the debate. Okay, der tal de chir.

Chir chen din pay chir. Okay, that's easy. You cannot agree that it's number five.

Okay? Dumi nu te. Why?

Chir chen din pay chir te.

[Speaker 2]
Good.

[Speaker 1]
Dumi nu te. Chir chen din pay chir te. Yeah, you can't say it's number five because of the expression, the six senses going on during feeling.

We talk about the six senses going on during feeling. So you can't say it's number five at that point. It's happening during feeling.

It's actually like a subset of link seven at that moment. Okay, got it? It's tricky.

What's he want you to learn from this debate? Is he just being cutting, what do you call it? Hairs?

[Speaker 2]
Splitting hairs? Puri chepa?

[Speaker 1]
What's he want you to understand? Okay, listen. When you say this is the time of the link of anything, it means primarily.

You still have all the other stuff going on. Okay, you still have a body. You still have a nose.

You know, it's not that the links of the wheel of life are just that thing. You've got your whole self going on at the same time. So when we define the links, we say, we don't say this is the link of feeling.

We say this is the link where feeling is dominant or predominant among all the stuff going on. But generally, throughout the wheel of life, all your parts are going on during each link. It's just that we're emphasizing this link or that link.

Okay, got it? That's what he wants you to learn from this stupid old dog debate. Uh-oh.

Yeah, it is. Yeah, it's always going on. It's a...

It's a kundrala. We learn from words texts, the other guy, that it's a kundrala. In the Mind Only School, it's one of the mental functions that you can never shut off, no matter who you are, Buddha, or anybody.

It doesn't matter. All...all minds have feeling. Uh, now that's a...

That's...you take that to the debate ground tonight. You see, that's what a professor will say in the monastery. You take that to the debate ground tonight.

Let me know what you guys decide tomorrow. You know, you take that to the debate ground tonight.

[Speaker 2]
Maybe we need one of those.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, yeah. They'll say... The professor in the monastery will say, you take that...

You guys decide tonight. Let me know tomorrow. Do all of the twelve links have all of the twelve links going on at the same time?

I think you might be able to say they are. Well, rebirth definitely includes all of them. Does all of them include rebirth?

Oh, now that's a good question. Yeah. If you say rebirth...

No, that's a good... That's probably not. He's probably right.

He probably found an exception. How long does rebirth last? All right, here we go.

Next debate. But that's why he had that debate. He wants you to be aware that the links are named by the primary element that we're focusing on.

It doesn't mean the other links are not present, or the other parts of you are not present. Go.

[Speaker 2]
Shall we all sit together?

[Speaker 1]
Sintian's going to read?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. Huh? Why not?

[Speaker 1]
Nah, you go ahead.

[Speaker 2]
Kachig Naray. Yeah, good.

[Speaker 1]
Now, these are the three things that recpa during recpa. The yul, the wangpo, and the nam she. What's it mean?

So, link number six is called contact. What's the picture? A man and a woman making contact.

But, philosophically speaking, what's happening is there's contact between the yul, the wangpo, and the nam she. What's that mean? Yeah, okay.

So, the donut, the optic nerve, the cells at the back of the eye, which is called the sense power, and then the awareness of the donut, which is mental. Okay? So, three things make contact.

And in the Wheel of Life teaching, this is contact. Okay? So, we do some latene.

Yul, yul kyi gyur. This is an unusual use of gyur that you guys should learn. It's very similar to nam dang, and zes.

[Speaker 2]
Explain. Oh, expression. In that case, it means an expression that comes out of some sort of primordial essence.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
And that's some sort of like temporary changing manifestation that you see in the world of some sort of underlying essence.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, good. But here, it's the changes that the object goes through. So, it's gyurwa.

Okay? But it means aspects. You know, first it looks fresh.

Twelve hours later, it looks old. Twelve hours later, it's got green stuff on it. These are changes of the object, literally, gyurwa.

But the word has come to mean... So, after yul, if gyurwa, which normally means a verb to change, here it's a noun that means changes, meaning the aspects it goes through. The phases.

That's perfect. Phases perfect. Right here.

Phases perfect. I was looking for this word. I'm going to add that for myself.

The phases. Okay? And yong su chupa means observing, or examining.

You know? We are examining the phases. Okay?

That's sakche kisemba.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, contaminated...

[Speaker 1]
thought. Okay? Or something like that.

Alright? It's the definition of rekpa. And as we mentioned in the last few days, which has been on my mind, okay?

When you first learn the Wheel of Life, and people teach it to you, they introduce number six as, at number five you had your eye, but the doughnut wasn't there yet. At number six, somebody put a doughnut in front of you, and then your eye touched it, and then at number seven, you had a feeling about the doughnut. You see what I mean?

Like, I like this doughnut. Okay? So when people talk about number six in the Wheel of Life, contact, with the man and the woman touching, they just say, it's when those three meet together.

What? The object, the sense power, and the awareness of the sense power. Okay?

But, this definition says, it's a sempa. It's a state of mind. Okay?

And then that confused me, you know? That threw me for a loop. I'm like, what do you mean?

I thought it was just the situation of contact. You see? That's not a mental function.

Okay? But sempa is one of the... kundro nga, all minds, Buddha minds, flea minds, they all have contact, as a sem chung, as a state of mind, as a mental function.

So, rekpa, contact, must be a state of mind, and not the situation of the three things making contact. You see? Or it must be the state of mind there, when the contact is made.

But you see, it's a... Here he's defining it, the other guy, as sempa. Okay?

Ah, yeah, now you got a problem. Can one be the other? Ah, that's a big problem.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Anyway, the other guy is defining contact as a state of mind. Okay? And it's uncomfortable.

You know? I mean, in the old days it was easier. When I thought it was just the situation of the three touching each other, that was easier.

Now somehow it has to be a part of my mind, a state of mind. Okay.

[Speaker 2]
Isn't this guy wrong though?

[Speaker 1]
No, and yeah, as the human computer pointed out, kācig means the other guy, the other debater. So his proposal is, it's a state of mind where you examine the phases that the object's going through after du. The cause.

No. The time of the cause.

[Speaker 2]
No. So, soon by?

[Speaker 1]
No, after they're coming together. Oh. Okay.

Like du chepa, right? gyu dang khen du ne chepay chu. After the convening.

Time of what? Of sense power. I'm sorry, object, donut, sense power, and I'm on the donut.

I don't know why. I'm thinking about pizza actually. Okay.

Tonight I get to overindulge freely. I don't have to have green drink tonight. I'm sorry, where?

Yeah, and it must be messed up, which is okay. If it's in the Wheel of Life, it's messed up. I mean, I can deal with that.

Okay. It's messed up. Somehow it's contaminated.

Her name is Vimala, which means, no stain, stainless, steel. And, and the Sanskrit mao came into English as malignant, bad, maleficent. Okay.

Like that. So this is, this is sammala, sammala, sakche, sammala, which means what? It has stain.

It has impurity. Okay. So that state of mind is in the Wheel of Life, and it's messed up.

You can say sammala, I don't know what it's written. Sak goes with anything, like together. Has, has impurity.

Okay. No, completely different.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
I don't think it's the same root. I doubt that it's the same root. I don't think there's anything bad about beads.

Oh, very similar. Well, mala is a long A, so maybe there's some meaning there, I don't know. I'll have to think about that.

Maybe they're related somehow. Nothing that I know, obviously. Okay, so he defines contact, not general contact, but contact in the Wheel of Life, as one of the twelve links.

Okay. General contact, contact in the Wheel of Life, different things. He's defining contact as one of the links of the Wheel of Life.

Okay. He's being very precise. By the way, where does, where does the Wheel of Life come in the DCI courses?

Yeah, level six, in the context of addiction. And what's happening in this room, in the last two years, is we are overkilling the twelve links. You know, we are ripping apart the twelve links.

Then when he goes to teach it, the next time, it's going to be ten times sweeter. It's going to be ten times deeper, you see? And that's the idea.

We are the snow on the mountain that melts and goes downstairs, and then they drink it.

[Speaker 2]
I think they can stump him with some little question about the Wheel of Life, and who they're messing with.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, and he's going to the dollar store with a hundred dollars. Yeah, like with a million.

He knows, he knows every detail of the Wheel of Life. And then he walks into a class and helps somebody with their addiction, which is a very serious need in the world right now. It's now more likely to die in the United States from opioid overdose than to die in a car.

You see? It's more serious. Housewives are heroin addicts.

And kefan in China is spreading, okay? So, here we go.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, now this is a tough pattern.

[Speaker 1]
I'm going to have this one up, okay? yenlak chu nyi kyi nang tsen tu gyur pa means? What?

Sugan. Yeah, which is one of the twelve links, okay? nang tsen means member, which is a member of the twelve links, okay?

nang tsen means member. nang tsen usually means a member of a list, one element in a list. So, let's consider, let's look at this contact, okay?

Which is a link in the twelve. And there's something which is tsunden with it. What's tsunden?

Linked, mental link. We have it downstairs this week. A cause and a mental link, okay?

Five kinds of mental links. Give it to me. Aspect, object, basis, Duration.

[Speaker 2]
Duration. Feeling. No.

Direction. No. No.

[Speaker 1]
Object.

[Speaker 2]
Same stuff.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, same substance. Explain. So, what it means is, if you are angry at your husband, which never happens, but let's just pretend.

The anger is a mental function. The awareness of the husband is a consciousness. And they are going on at the same time.

They are linked. They are happening at the same time. You can't be angry if you are not aware.

And even if you are aware, you still got to have anger to have anger. You see what I mean? So, there is a mental function going on.

Anger. But to have anger, you got to be aware of him. So, there is an awareness and an anger going on at the same time.

Awareness in Buddhism is called main mind. Tso sem. Tso sem.

And then the anger is called sem chung, which means... A mental function means part of the mind. Okay?

Then, those must be linked. They must be linked together, or else it's not going to happen. The anger can't happen.

Okay? And in Buddhism, we say they are linked in five different ways. Give me one and explain it.

Yeah, they are both looking at...

[Speaker 2]
What?

[Speaker 1]
The husband. The anger is looking at the husband, and the general awareness is looking at the husband. Okay.

That's one of the tendencies. What's the other? Give me another one.

The duration is the same. When you calm down, when the anger comes down, there will no longer be an awareness linked with anger. Okay?

So they last for the same five minutes, or five years. Or if you are divorced, fifty years.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Next one.

[Speaker 2]
Basis. We just had basis. Didn't we?

No. The material, you are talking about the ze. You are talking about ze.

[Speaker 1]
We had duration. Didn't we have object and duration?

[Speaker 2]
We had object and duration. Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, give me a different one. Basis is like the mental function, the sense power that you use to... Oh, good.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. What they use to communicate with the outside world. What they use to...

The portal, the window through which they are looking is the same. They are both using the EYE, the eye to look at the husband. The main mind is using the eye to see the object, and the anger is using the eye to see the object.

So we say they are using the same instrument, let's say. So we got... So far we got object, duration, and instrument.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, aspect means...

[Speaker 1]
maddish. Colored by anger. So even the main awareness is colored by anger at that moment.

The coloration. We call coloration. And it's a difficult idea.

It's a difficult idea. But anyway, the main awareness is feeling angrish, and the anger is definitely feeling angrish. So they have the same coloration.

By the way, coloration is going to be important in whose text today? His text. Why?

Dzegyun Chupa and Rikyun Chupa. The mind and the thought is cut. Yeah, when you reach Nirvana, okay, do you cut the entire brain?

Or do you just cut the coloration of the brain? Okay, do you cut all awareness? Or do you just cut the coloration?

And we're going to have a huge debate in his text today. This is Mind-Only School.

[Speaker 2]
Excuse me?

[Speaker 1]
Oh yeah, in the Hinayana you would say the whole... you would say Dzegyun Chupa. But even in the Mind-Only School there's a Dzegyun Chupa time.

Yeah, and we're going to get there. And it's a huge debate in the Mind-Only School. What's the...

you didn't give me the fifth one.

[Speaker 2]
The stuff.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, the stuff. And stuff just means, is it mental, or is it physical, or is it something else? So the stuff of the anger is made up, is mental.

And the stuff that the awareness is made of is mental. Okay, we just overkilled Sungden. Ah, it is.

Everything's from Abhidharma. Sooner or later. You have the most important text.

Without you we couldn't be here. Okay, so let's take the feeling, okay, which is linked with the contact. Okay, let's take the feeling, link number...

seven. Linked with the contact, which is link number...

[Speaker 2]
six.

[Speaker 1]
Okay? Now, this is a classic format of an argument. You'll see it most often in Adam's text.

Sunja, what's sunja mean? The thing being defined. Good, the thing, the finendum.

The finendum, the thing being defined. Okay, the thing being defined. What's the opposite of that?

Yeah, the definition. Okay, the thing being defined. Now, this is a very common debate.

Oh, so I guess that feeling is what you were trying to define when you started this argument. I guess the feeling, which is linked with the contact, is the contact. Why would someone say, yeah, because it fits your definition.

It fits your definition, okay? I guess when you were defining contact, you were defining feeling, and the guy said, what? And he says, uh-huh, because your definition fits feeling too.

Got it? This is a very typical way to attack a definition. Find another thing that it fits.

Okay, and we'll study in his book the definition of definition. Yeah, and it has to be unique to that thing. The definition can't cover more than that thing, or it's not a definition.

Okay, if you're defining contact, your definition cannot spread to the definition of feeling. It has to be unique to contact, or else it's not a definition. Okay, got it?

Somehow, his definition leaks over to feeling. Okay? Let's check it, okay?

Is feeling a state of mind which is impure, and which is examining the phases of its object through the convening of sense power, object, and consciousness? Does that definition fit feeling? I'm only guessing so because we say so.

[Speaker 2]
You can just say yes.

[Speaker 1]
Let's check. Just check, does each part fit feeling? Is feeling a movement of the mind?

[Speaker 2]
Yes.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, is feeling in this case messed up?

[Speaker 2]
Yes.

[Speaker 1]
Is this feeling examining the donut? No. Sorry, did it use...

Is it examining the donut based on the convening, the coming together, of the donut, the eye, and the awareness? Yes. So your definition is not limited enough.

Your definition is too general. It also fits the next link. It also fits the next link.

You have to add an extra qualifier to your definition, because it's not precise enough. It could fit the next link. Got it?

[Speaker 2]
Yes, but why is the donut so true?

[Speaker 1]
Like, if it's a donut, you got to check it carefully. Yeah, completely check, yeah. But, you know, in English, we convey these little qualifiers with Latin prefixes, like conception, you see, or, you know...

You don't... If you want to be a bad translator, use an adverb here. Checks thoroughly.

You could say checks thoroughly, or just jump to examines. Okay? So don't...

Never ever think you have to translate... These came from Sanskrit, which is heavy on prefixes, okay? Don't...

Please don't make it an adverb. You know, checks thoroughly. Because we don't say that, I checked thoroughly the donut.

No, I examined the donut, and then I ate it. So find an English word which means a deeper kind of checking. But please don't give me these...

Don't always translate these Sanskrit prefixes, because Sanskrit is over-prefixed. And the Tibetans just took them whole. Okay?

They always translate the prefix. But in English it's not necessary. Find a word for checking which is deeper.

Okay? All right, please. By the way, that's how you tell an immature translator.

I call them immature translators. In the first ten years or twenty years, they're still translating prefixes. Okay?

All right, go.

[Speaker 2]
We have this one. We read this one.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, we read this one. So we accused him. Okay.

Okay. No, no, no. Sorry.

They send you the checking. Oh, yeah. So that feeling must be what you are defining with the definition you just gave.

Okay? Because of the definition you just gave. Okay?

Why? LEN YAN LA CHUN GI GYUR PA'I RIG PA'I BRTAN DANG, DE DE DANG YIN PAS ZHIG Ah. Now that's difficult.

[Speaker 2]
Because it's just like the link.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Yeah, but your definition fits the feeling because your definition is the way it is. Thanks.

Okay? Your definition of contact is the way it is. That's his reason.

That's our reason. Take your definition. You must be defining feeling.

Why? Because of the details you just gave in your definition of contact. Which doesn't help us.

Let's hope we get more information. GYAP TE You want to keep going. GYAP TE GYAP TE DE NYID GSUNGS DAM YIN PAS BYAS RGYUR NA MI THAD PAR DAG Wait.

You going up or down? Or are you fudging it? Nah, no.

Up. MI THAD PAR DAG? Up.

GYUR CAN LAS PA'I BYAS Yeah, okay. Uh, I guess we are picking on... Uh...

Okay. GYAP TE It must be that way because those two are GSUNGS DAM. They are linked mentally.

What?

[Speaker 2]
The feeling and the contact.

[Speaker 1]
The feeling and the contact. Okay? If you agree that your definition fits the feeling.

The next link. If you agree that your definition fits link 7. If you agree that your definition for link 6 fits link 7.

Okay? MI THAD PAR?

[Speaker 2]
You're wrong.

[Speaker 1]
You're wrong. Okay.

[Speaker 2]
Why?

[Speaker 1]
Because it ain't link number 6. It's link number 7.

[Speaker 2]
So it's not saying you're wrong about the definition you're agreeing. It's saying you're just wrong with your definition?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. You can't agree to that definition. No, sorry, you can't agree that it covers 7.

You can't agree that your definition fits 7. Because if it did...

[Speaker 2]
Uh... So basically the first statement is wrong, right?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, yeah. But you gotta chew on it. You gotta sit with it, you know.

There's some... By the way, the easy way to do this is to go to the...

[Speaker 2]
To the... To the actual definition?

[Speaker 1]
Go to the...

[Speaker 2]
Next link? No.

[Speaker 1]
Wrong link. Yay! Let's do it, okay?

Just so you're comfortable. Let's see how our definition, the real definition, differs from his attempted definition for contact. So, what wording are we looking for?

[Speaker 2]
Semi, near, um... Oh. Here.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, say it in... Say it in Tibetan. No, no, we want the real definition of number 6.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, oh, oh.

[Speaker 1]
Rek pei tse ni. Rek pei tse ni. Okay?

If you want to be fancy, you can say, uh... Ten dek yi ema chun yi kyi nang tsem kyi kyur pei rek pei tse ni. But, you know, when you're searching, keep your searches small.

Okay? Rek pei... Oops.

I'm just hoping... You did?

[Speaker 2]
No. No, you were typing.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, okay. It's not here. Then I didn't spell it.

Uh...

[Speaker 2]
Rek pei...

[Speaker 1]
Hmm... Let's go for rong ruk. Here's rong ruk.

[Speaker 2]
You just spelled it.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, I'm sorry. Did I?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
There's the definition of number... Kyi chen. Five.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. Here's the definition of number 6. Here we go.

Okay, so here's the real definition. Let's see how it differs from his attempted definition. You wouldn't normally do this, because it takes time.

And we're on a time schedule. You know, we got to finish within 20 years. RANG RGYUD RTEN DEL TSAR GCIG GYI DBANG DU BYAS PAS—relative to a single turning, okay?

Relative to a single turning. By the way, these are huge definitions. Because he's got to check—he's got to get all the details in.

Relative—its cause, relative to a single turning of the wheel, okay? DBANG DU BYAS PAS SKYE GCIG GYI RTEN DEL TSOG Link number 5 is over. Tsog means it's over, okay?

Relative to one turning of the wheel, okay? Relative to all turnings of the wheel, is the number 5 finished by the time you get to number 6? No, because you do have number 5 going on number 6, but not in the same wheel.

Not in that turning. You see? You've got one that's going on from before.

Because you still have senses while you're looking at the donut. But it doesn't count in this turning of the wheel, okay? Got it?

Because in this turning of the wheel, your eye is number 5. It cannot be present during number 6. If there's an eye present at number 6, it must belong to a different phase of the wheel.

[Speaker 2]
Different wheel.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, because the wheels go like this. They don't go like this. Tick, tick, tick, tick, tick.

They go tick, tick. Tick, tick, tick, tick, tick. Tick, tick, tick.

They go like that. There's always three wheels in one round. Okay, got it?

You collect... You misunderstand the pen, and you collect karma in the first life. Then in the second life, it creates an awareness to enter the womb.

And the body to develop, okay? And it goes on until you do all the stuff you need to do, to trigger the seeds you planted in your first life, okay? And then that creates a third wheel, which is your rebirth.

Starts with number 11. You see what I mean? It always goes like, duck, duck.

Then duck, duck, duck, duck, duck, duck, duck, duck. Then duck, duck, duck. Sorry, duck, duck.

Yeah, because old age and death are considered together. Okay, cool. So anyway, relative to one turning of the wheel, number five has come to a close.

By six. We're defining six. So five has finished.

In the previous wheel, right? No, in this one. RANG REL DENG DRAG SANG CIG NI DBANG DU BYAS PA'I TSOR BA'I DENG DRAG MA GRUB But number seven hasn't come yet.

In this one wheel, okay? In this one wheel, five is finished. Seven isn't finished yet.

This is a pretty good definition of... six. Okay, five's over.

Seven's not here yet. What do you got?

[Speaker 2]
Six.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. MA GRUB GONG GI GONG means before... or prior to the coming about of seven, okay?

Prior to the coming about of seven. The three of object, sense power, and consciousness come together. And due to that DENG NI, you are looking into the phases of the object, okay?

RANG RTOG GI which is used in the study of mind and mental functions to indicate an isolated mental function that doesn't require other mental functions to do its thing. Okay? It's a way to say, in Buddhist psychology, that this is an isolated mental function.

It's working on its own. RANG RTOG If you had a DCI person in your class, and you wanted to give him an example of the word RTOG, what could you say? Yeah, which is?

Yeah, this is the word for the four powers, but it's a different context, right? The mental function here is operating RANG RTOG. Yeah, it doesn't require other mental functions to be linked with it for it to do its job.

And there are certain mental functions that are not RANG RTOG. They cannot function on their own. They depend on other mental functions.

I guess, like, you could say SIGPA as opposed to CHO BA. What do you call that? Resentment needs some leftover anger.

Like that, you see? It's not RANG RTOG. Resentment is one of the mental functions, but it kind of depends on having some anger left over.

It depends on an earlier anger. It's not RANG RTOG. It's SHIN RTOG.

Okay? What's the mind-only word that comes up here? What's the opposite of RANG RTOG?

What's a nice mind-only word to describe RANG RTOG?

[Speaker 2]
SHEN HUANG.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, SHEN HUANG. Very famous. It is controlled by other factors.

But we don't have... Here, the mind... This state of mind is operating on its own.

Independent. RANG RTOG KYI. CHO BA, it examines the phases of its object.

And we have to say it's SAK CHE. Messed up. State of mind.

Okay? Movement of the mind. Okay?

That's our definition of contact. Okay? So, what's...

I mean, if you really want to waste time, what's in our definition that wasn't in his definition?

[Speaker 2]
The... sorry. The factor one, two, three.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, we were clear that we're talking about one turning of the wheel. We were very clear about that. He wasn't.

Okay? And we were talking about isolated mental function. So, we weren't talking about feeling, for example.

Okay? Like that. Okay?

[Speaker 2]
So, when you say it's a state of mind, not a situation?

[Speaker 1]
I'm sorry?

[Speaker 2]
When you say it's a state of mind, not a situation?

[Speaker 1]
Right. And so, all the definitions of contact, in RANG LUGS, in Buddhism really, define it as a state of mind, and not as a situation of three things making contact. Okay?

It's a movement of the mind that involves contact between three things. It's not contact. Cool.

We're closer. Okay? And you know, you get into a debate with somebody who just saw the real life, and it gets...

I mean, you're going to be frustrated talking to people about the real life after this, because in the first sentence they'll say six wrong things, and you just got to smile and say, Yeah, okay. You know. All right.

I mean, knowing too much is also painful, because you can't talk to anybody. Really?

[Speaker 2]
See, that's what happens when you try to understand the whole thing.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. Last night, I woke up, I was like, Am I going to do the Ben Kramer's thing or not? You know, I don't know.

What was it?

[Speaker 2]
Sorry. What was it? We still haven't decided...

[Speaker 1]
Oh, why? One, two, or...

[Speaker 2]
That there are one-ers and two-ers. Yeah, yeah.

[Speaker 1]
That there's no numb day and... Numb day. As presented by the James.

Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
Sorry. I know. But you got a couple days.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, we left his text in the middle of somebody whose syllogisms were short. I know. And then...

And would we try to prove the James wrong?

[Speaker 2]
Well, unfortunately, the commentator we found attributed it to a position of the Nyayas and Vaisheshikas, but Johnny Lama says that it's an attack on the James, so... Yeah, we're in a...

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, anyway, we have to decide whether we waste a few weeks figuring out what question, or we just go on. Because otherwise, these translations are going to take a long time. Stanley's scheduled to finish in 20 years, if he stays on schedule.

Xiaoping is 2022. You've got 24. Yeah, she's got five years to go.

[Speaker 2]
Six years. And I might have said that you make this impassioned speech about...

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, my idea was, even if you don't include it in the footnote, you should understand it. You have three choices. Just go on.

And hope your reader doesn't care. Number two, make a footnote that's incomplete, that doesn't cover all the possible questions. Number three, don't include it in your footnote, but understand it in case you're giving a lecture at Harvard in ten years about your book, and someone asks you, like, do you want three-page footnotes?

No. I mean, that's one great way to prevent anyone reading the book. You know, they open it up, and there's footnotes that are more than the text, and they're like, oh man, this is one of those books.

We could go that way, yeah. By the way, you always have to factor in that it wasn't the author's intention to add that much information. He wanted a streamlined book.

But then again, if we don't do it in this room, no one will ever do it, trust me. We have to, you know, no one else is going to do it.

[Speaker 2]
In this show, these authors are presenting to an audience that already had a lot of this context. Yeah. We can look at audio, right?

[Speaker 1]
No, but they, those monks weren't into those details.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, but you think the average monk even in that monastery, I mean, you've been to that monastery, it's that monastery, it's that same one. 400 years ago in Tibet.

[Speaker 1]
Thank you. Thank you. These are three things we're looking for in their life tool.