Классика Алмазного огранщика: Нижний Срединный путь — Анализ зависимости, занятие 33

[Speaker 2]
Pradyumna dasi remembers the history of OK, try this one.

[Speaker 1]
Consciousness as a member of the twelve links is defined as its cause due to what components just after making the crossing to the rebirth of the consciousness of a being? Its cause. As its own cause, do you mean to say?

What is it causing?

[Speaker 2]
I mean, what is the cause? The fourth. Oh, this is like a Jeopardy question.

[Speaker 1]
What is it even for? Oh, you think of it that way. That's cool.

This is from, I don't know, I just pick up from the wrong look, so I just hope that it is understandable. Give me a comment. It's a little confusing.

[Speaker 2]
The way it's phrased. Maybe I'm correct, I don't know.

[Speaker 1]
The wording.

[Speaker 2]
It's not pointing to anything.

[Speaker 1]
OK, this cause is confusing, right? It's cause, what's cause.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, right. There's no previous referring.

[Speaker 1]
I'll relook into the sentence construction. And what is the essential nature of that being? It's being.

[Speaker 2]
Essential nature.

[Speaker 1]
Impure.

[Speaker 2]
Sustained.

[Speaker 1]
You have good memory.

[Speaker 2]
I like the brackets.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, I give the idea.

[Speaker 2]
That's about six letters.

[Speaker 1]
You don't have to guess. OK, the first one.

[Speaker 2]
Sang-wa. Sang-wa.

[Speaker 1]
Sang-wa. Sang-wa. Sang-wa.

Sang-wa. Sang-wa. Sang-wa.

[Speaker 2]
Sang-wa. Sang-wa. Sang-wa.

Sang-wa. Sang-wa.

[Speaker 1]
Sang-wa. Neng-suk. Neng-suk.

Neng-suk. Neng-suk. The name and form.

[Speaker 2]
When you have to go back and find the root position, because there was an agreement that we wanted to figure out what the word was. When I say Tawa-da-na. Tawa-da-na.

Tawa-da-na. Except for. Except for.

That's a good one. Only a human copy could do that. We've done it like 13 times.

Oh really?

[Speaker 1]
13.7 to be exact.

[Speaker 2]
The last time was on March 17th.

[Speaker 1]
Are you sleepy?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. Everybody's a little giddy.

[Speaker 1]
I'll tell you what. Take tomorrow off.

[Speaker 2]
OK?

[Speaker 1]
Please take tomorrow off. Looking forward to today's altar.

[Speaker 2]
Are you going to go to the Grand Canyon or Los Angeles? I like the tie.

[Speaker 1]
It's very beautiful. Probably your wife bought it. It's a beautiful tie.

And it's nice. It's your father's. I don't have anything from my father.

Just one photo. He got lots of tie. Alright.

We're ready to suffer with you. Phil has the plane. And please read the first two parts.

The first part is Tawa. No, the second part is Tawa. This is Kachit, right?

[Speaker 2]
I think you're correct. They're speaking.

[Speaker 1]
It's going up. He believes it. He believes it.

The second part is Tawa. OK, cool. The third part of every classical presentation where the other guy ...

I love this because it's so fair. He's going to lose, but he gets to come back and complain about our position. The refutation.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Of our rang-luk. Of our definitions, our divisions, our ... Features, our dooms.

Examples. Yeah. Then he says, dey du kyi nam she kyi tendrel yin na.

If something is the link of consciousness, dey du. A result. Yeah, considered from the point of view of being a result.

You might translate it that way. Considered from the point of view of being a result. Lung ma ten yin be kya.

[Speaker 2]
It's neutral, bro.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, karmically neutral. What's the full form of lung ma ten? Maybe I should have offered some money, but it's too early.

And I lost a lot last night. I lost like a thousand dollars yesterday. Wow, game, right?

Lung du ma tenpa. Meaning Buddha didn't clarify it. So the Buddhist word for karmically neutral is Buddha didn't say whether it was good or bad.

But, you know, that's a debate, right? He didn't talk about everything. But that's the general word in Buddhism.

It's unclarified. I like to translate it as karmically neutral. Every reader will understand it.

Karmically neutral is like the table, you see? It's not doing anything good. It's not doing anything bad.

It's just a piece of wood, right? It doesn't think. So that kind of thing is easy, right?

But can't we say, and his text is going to go there today? Today or tomorrow? Today.

His text is going to go there big time. So there's always three choices, right? De, mi, ge, lung ma ten.

Is it making good karma? Is it making bad karma? Or is it neutral?

And his text has a very interesting debate today about what's the nature of a karmic seed itself after it's planted. You see, the deed which plants it, the action which plants it, is not karmically neutral. It's a good deed or a bad deed.

But after it's planted, what's its nature? Like, this is a result of good karma, I guess. Because I enjoy this table, personally.

You always have to say, for me, it's a result of good karma. But after it's created, it's not doing anything. It's just neutral.

So his text is going to get into this very interesting question of what's the nature of a karmic seed. Is it creating bad karma or good karma? What do you think?

[Speaker 2]
Huh? If it's creating latter iterations of itself?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, well, that's a problem, too. You see, it is multiplying itself by nature, right? Okay, so his text is going to go deep into that question.

But your text, your text is kind of asking this Abhidharma, from an Abhidharma viewpoint, kind of, which is some kind of feeling that all results of karma should be neutral. Because they're not doing anything. They're just things that came out after you did a mistake.

So they themselves are not making bad karma or good karma. They're just results. So there's a school of thought that all karmic results are neutral.

Okay? And he states it here. So the consciousness which comes into the womb should be karmically neutral.

Because danger, because it's a karmic maturation. It's just an unwitting result. It's not thinking or intending to do anything.

It's just resulting. It's just a tree growing from the seed. It didn't decide anything.

It doesn't have a choice. So it's the same with your consciousness entering the womb. It's not making decisions.

It's not doing things. It's just the result. Sakche, even sakche, even if it's impure.

Ngo-girpa, its essence is to be a karmic maturation which is impure. Okay? Why?

Why is it impure? Necessarily. Yeah, that's a simple answer.

[Speaker 2]
It's in the wheel.

[Speaker 1]
Anything in the wheel, you can say it's sakche. Yeah, that's true too. Okay.

It must be one of the five heaps. Okay? Impure.

Impure karmic results.

[Speaker 2]
It must be.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, it must be. Gay, for example, DGAS, is one of the few possible ambiguities in the Tibetan language. When you have DGAS, it could be the instrumental of joy, of bliss, which is gawa, with an S, which in case it would look like DGS.

And then it could be tak, like yidak, preta, which is why they put the wasa. They say this is the main letter. They put the little triangle on the bottom of the yidak.

Okay? So, it's not uncommon to see people misread the O and put dok. Yeah, and then we had this tremendous struggle with his dok.

What was it about? Do you remember? Dokpa me.

They said there's no dokpa. To say that bakchaks are suk. Dokpa me.

Dokpa me. Okay? No one would think that.

No one would have this. Dokpa means suspicion or idea, weird idea. Nobody could have the weird idea that you have physical little rocks in your head.

Except for some of the people in this class. Just kidding. Or your kids.

Or your husband. Okay, here we go. kyap te.

kyap te. Yeah. dzu le.

Yeah. nam min lung tu ma ten chu, se sung pey chir se na ma kyap. Yeah.

Yeah. Ben got the quotation. Now let's see if you got the quotation.

Here's the quotation. dzu le, from the kosha. nam min lung tu ma ten chu, very famous.

What's it say? Yeah, anything that ripens from karma is neutral.

[Speaker 2]
Okay?

[Speaker 1]
Anything that ripens from karma is neutral. Abhidharmakosha. Now it's interesting that we don't say tamadrup.

Which means what? Yeah, it does say that. The Abhidharmakosha does say that.

But it doesn't prove what you just said. Okay? Ma kyap means it doesn't prove what you just said.

It doesn't prove that the consciousness entering the womb as a link of the wheel of life is karmically neutral always. Because that consciousness could be angry. You see what I mean?

[Speaker 2]
Okay? Then you get into a huge problem of what's not a non-me.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Speaker 2]
Okay?

[Speaker 1]
But you can understand the Abhidharma viewpoint. The table, he just came out, he didn't have a choice. He's not angry.

You know. Okay? And we leave it at that, unfortunately.

It'd be nice to have a little more debate about it. I've done those things which we ought not to have done and we are left undone those things which we ought to have done. And there's Christian confession.

They have commented on those things which needed no commenting. They have not commented on those things which needed no commenting. Yeah, sometimes they go off on these long commentary on something that's obvious and then they just leave something that we want to know more about.

Maybe it's coming later. Okay, cool. Khaji, okay, somebody says, chen del tsar chikyi wang du chepa If we limit ourselves, right?

Relative to a single tsar, a single... Yeah, a single... What are we going to call it?

Cycle. Let's call it a cycle. A single cycle.

The link of consciousness which is a result of your past life, okay? Entering the womb. The mind entering the womb.

And the eleventh link of rebirth. Are they simultaneous? No.

Yes. In a single way? According to what he's saying.

Well, let's think... You know, we have to think about it, unfortunately. I wish he would just tell us when it was correct.

Those two... Just kidding. The day before the break, he should just tell us.

Dunyam dunjwa To say that they do occur at the same time is mite. Not correct. But who's saying it?

Khaji, the other guy. So it must be correct that they happen at the same time. The link of rebirth and the link of consciousness entering the womb must happen at the same time.

But what about this? Okay. And then...

I'll explain why it's going there. By the way, you want the punchline?

[Speaker 2]
Or absolute?

[Speaker 1]
It's here. It's nam she kyi tendrel. It's nam she kyi tendrel.

[Speaker 2]
Consciousness as a link? Not as a link.

[Speaker 1]
Consciousness in a link.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, a link.

[Speaker 1]
It doesn't say yenlak sumpa.

[Speaker 2]
Right.

[Speaker 1]
It doesn't say yenlak sumpa. That's the trick.

[Speaker 2]
So this is because consciousness exists in each link.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Okay? So you have to translate it kind of mysteriously.

You have to keep the question. You can't be so obvious. You can't really say consciousness in a link.

You could say the link of consciousness or something. That would be tricky. It has to be tricky.

Don't make it not tricky, because then you ruin the joke. Yeah. Do I sign?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Sorry. That was inappropriate. No, that's actually really appropriate.

Nam she kyi tendrel. That's the same exact construction that we use as nam she, as a link as well, isn't it?

[Speaker 2]
It is. I'm sorry.

[Speaker 1]
But that's why there's a joke. Right. So the only way to use a punchline was from already knowing the answer?

Or that it was contextual? You have to figure out why we're right. Right.

You have to go through each piece and say, can I twist it around and tell we're right? Okay. You can also look ahead to the punchline.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Those are different ways. You can do it logically, which is more healthy for your mind. Or you can cheat and look ahead and see what the punchline is.

Then this is him talking. He's still talking. And this is probably a good vocabulary word for your next homework.

Rim chen du chung wa. Rim chen du chung wa. What's it mean?

They have to occur in steps, one after the other. Na chi. The earlier ones and the later ones.

They have to occur in stages. Rim chen du chung wa means they occur in stages. Then he clarifies earlier and later stages.

One has to happen before the other. If you say that, then consciousness has a link, trick question, and number 11 cannot happen at the same time. Because these links have to be sequential.

All these links have to be sequential. One has to happen after the other. Gobe chen ma.

Then he quotes a sutra, Dole, which is probably the Tenching Dawa Jungway Do. Okay, the Sutra on Dependent Origination. There is a whole sutra just on Dependent Origination.

Sepe kyen gi kyewa. Now, I used to go through these and correct them to instrumental. The eighth link is what triggers the gyewa.

And when you get this instrumental in a Wheel of Life teaching or scripture, it's kind of nice to say trigger for the instrumental. You could say, by gyepa sepa, what do you call it, initial desire. By initial desire, you get birth.

But that's not very clear. You could say initial desire triggers birth. And that's a lot more cool in a translation, in my opinion.

And then what happened historically was they dropped the S. And it became initial desiry birth. You see what I mean?

But it became a standard in discussions of the Wheel of Life. People stopped using the instrumental. So don't go through and try to correct them all.

It became an idiom. Meaning birth of initial desire. Birth of initial desire meaning birth caused by initial desire.

Triggered by initial desire. But it became a standard. Especially in Vasubandhu who wrote a huge commentary on the Wheel.

A beautiful, huge commentary. And if we have nothing to do in the next decade, it would be nice for Sugeng to translate that. It's a classic.

And I don't think anyone's ever translated it. It's long. It's like a hundred pages.

It's amazing. I translated it in my head. I went through and made notes.

It's like Kamalashila. It's ready. It's hard.

It's very hard. But it's beautiful. So, he's quoting a sutra which is probably quoted by Vasubandhu also.

Sepe Gyengi Gyewa. The birth which results from the factor of initial desire. And we know that initial desire...

What's a monkey reaching for a fruit? Oh, the guy with the... at Kuchina Ristika.

[Speaker 2]
Kuchina Ristika.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Those kinds of what we call initial desire and stronger desire, which is eight and nine, are really that kind of attachment that we've been talking about downstairs.

[Speaker 2]
Philosophical addiction.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, philosophical addiction to things coming from their own side. So, it doesn't mean you really want the thing. You can't stop trying to drink.

It doesn't really mean that. That's not what wakes up the karmic seed. That's not the water on the seed that was planted at link two that makes it link ten.

That makes it the trigger for a rebirth. Just wanting things. And we've been doing that all the time anyway.

So, it's deeper than that. It's misunderstanding seeds. It's eight and nine.

Initial desire and stronger desire, which is how they're going to be defined in this book, are really misunderstanding the seeds, which is kind of a negative coughing meditation. Okay? Okay.

All right. Okay, Jungi Chodron. Dolay.

Okay? Shesamved Chodron. Serna.

Makhya. Okay, I admit the sutra says that. I admit the sutra talks about rebirth, which is triggered by the eighth link, initial desire.

But that doesn't prove that it's... that sequentialness of one thing happening first and triggered happening next doesn't apply in this case. A link of consciousness can occur simultaneously to rebirth.

Okay? I didn't say the third link of consciousness. I said a link...

If you want to be really obvious, translate it as, a link involving consciousness is simultaneous to the eleventh link. Okay? Rebirth.

It'd be nicer to the reader, but it'd be kind of like showing the joke before the joke is... Yeah, you might want to translate this nam-shay-ki-ten-do, right? If you want to make it easier for the reader, which may not be so nice, right?

Sometimes it's better to make your children work, right? Don't give it to them. Rich children are the worst.

They never work for anything. Okay? So, readers who get everything handed to them are lazy.

[Speaker 2]
Anyway... We have that problem with this book.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, so... Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyone who opened your book is probably not like that.

So... A link... If you want to help the reader, translate this as, a link involving consciousness.

And then it'll make it easier for them. Okay? If you want to make it harder for your reader, say, the link of consciousness.

And then when he complains to you, say, I didn't say the third link of consciousness. A link of consciousness would probably be a good compromise.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. Yeah. It leaves the joke there.

[Speaker 1]
But it's... It's figureoutable. Okay.

Yeah, yeah. Which means... Which is not an abnormal response to which kind of drupche?

[Speaker 2]
To which kind of proof?

[Speaker 1]
Lung, you know? You can't... You can't say, Buddha didn't say that.

Buddha didn't say that. You've got to go to Khyapa Majong. You've got to say, not necessarily so.

You can't say, I disagree. That Buddha said that. Buddha did say that.

So normally, when the other guy uses a scripture against you, you have to say, Ma Khyap. Okay? Yeah, that's a scripture, but it doesn't have anything to do with this.

Okay? That's not... Doesn't prove what you're trying to prove.

[Speaker 2]
So if you're stalling for time on the debate ground, and he quoted scripture, you always know it's Khyapa Majong.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, generally. Unless, I mean, on the debate ground... Unless you said it wrong.

Yeah, we misquote. Which happens. Then you can say, Dharmadrup, Vasubandhu never said that.

Try to get it straight. Go back home and memorize it correctly. Okay?

Which happened in your text, I think, a little bit. Either he's quoting what he heard on the debate ground sometimes, because so many of them are wrong. Slightly wrong.

One syllable off. Or the carver was drunk or something. I don't know.

Okay. Okay. Yeah, okay.

Yeah. That's not relative to a single tsar. That's relative to two tsars.

Shen means there's another tsar involved here, in your example, in your quotation. Somebody tell me why. We said, we said, we all started out talking about a single tsar.

Now, you're quoting the Buddha, but that quotation is referring to multiple tsars. Why? Give me linked numbers.

Eleven is easy. I'll give you the first one.

[Speaker 2]
It's always different.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, good. Okay. So, three is always in a different life than eleven.

Okay? Got it? Okay.

It's a different tsar. Talking two tsars. I'm sorry?

Yeah, that quotation. Deni means that quotation. That quotation is talking about multiple tsars.

Okay. So, it's correct that Buddha said that, but it doesn't apply to our debate. Because Buddha was talking about multiple tsars, and you restricted yourself to a single tsar.

Okay? Sentient refers to multiple, right? Shen means a different, a different, yeah.

You could have said, sar shen chik. You could have said, a different tsar. Okay.

Okay. Oh, wait. Who's got the plane?

Sunim? Okay. What is this?

You're not getting any help.

[Speaker 2]
You think this is still us? This is still us, right?

[Speaker 1]
You noticed the problem before.

[Speaker 2]
It should be up, right? I think it's got to be down. No.

No. I think it's still us. It's...

Yeah. Because the first sentence is, because if it's not like that, then... It should be, it should be...

[Speaker 1]
It's going to be, I think it's going to be from content.

[Speaker 2]
If you made a sarcastic statement, we'd have to spend a while disproving it. If it's not sarcastic, then he can move on in the text.

[Speaker 1]
Oh, I mean this guy. So I think it's got to be up.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. If we want to move on, we have to say something true, which I think means we go on.

[Speaker 1]
Let me think about this. This is really tough. Down.

Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
So is this still him or is this us?

[Speaker 1]
It's still... It's us. It's us?

Yeah. It's us continuing. Oh, okay.

Yeah, now this is tough. And it introduces a new idea. So we're just going deeper and deeper into the Wheel of Life, you know.

And you're deeper now than any Westerner has ever gone, probably. Okay. Okay.

DE LTAR MA YIN NA If it were not that way, okay, then let's consider TEN DEL TSAR GCIG PO. This GCIG PO means that one. It doesn't mean GCIG.

He didn't say GCIG. He said GCIG PO, that one. Well, he's going to talk about it.

Here we go. GCIG PO DE SRID PA'I TEN DEL Let's talk about the link number ten in that single tsar. Let's talk about the link number ten in that single tsar.

Yeah, link number ten is the pregnant lady, meaning the seed is ready to pop, ready to split open. It's the moment that the wife opens the kitchen door. Okay.

No, really. The seed is ready, because she has not confessed it, yelling at her kids. And so she hasn't stopped the seed from opening.

And by not confessing it, it means she's not thinking about it. And she's especially not thinking about it properly. And therefore it's going to open.

Okay, it's not freeze-dried. Which it could have been freeze-dried, but she didn't do four powers. And especially she didn't think about emptiness, about the pen.

So it's going to open. So try to imagine in your mind a seed which is now watered, and it has soil nutrients. Those are not the main cause of the tree, but they are good, strong contributing causes.

They are causes which make the seed ready to open. Factors which make the seed ready to open. Now, before we go in here, I'll ask you to consider a possibility.

Does the process of wetting the seed, and does the process of the seed taking in nutrients from the soil, which are not the nirlanggi, right? The seed is the main cause of the tree. But that process, is it still going on as it splits open?

Is it still going on in the moment before it splits open? Yeah. Okay.

So if the water and the nutrients in the soil can be said to be metaphors for link 8 and 9, okay, then can we say that links 8 and 9 could occur simultaneously to link 10? No. 8 and 9?

Yeah, the way you just stated it. Yeah, the way I just said it. That's why I'm trying to get you to think this way.

In the moment that she opens the door, she's still misunderstanding the seed. It's still being fed, but it's also ready to open. So you can say 8 and 9 are happening at the same time as 10, in that moment that she opens the door.

It's possible to have a case where 8 and 9 are still going on when 10 happens. When the seed is ready to open, it's still being fed by water and the soil. Okay?

I believe that's where he's going, okay? And it's nasty. It kind of means the wheel of life doesn't happen step by step.

Nga chi rim chen du chung wa. Nga chi rim chen du chung wa, ma yin pe kyap. Yin pe ma kyap.

[Speaker 2]
It does not happen in one step.

[Speaker 1]
It doesn't have to happen one after the other, which is like revolutionary. Like he's throwing a bomb into the wheel of life teaching. Okay.

Then we come back with, after all, in the next breath, the Buddha said, link 8 feeds link 10. He used the same wording. Link 8 triggers link 10.

After all, the Buddha said 8 triggers 10. So is that always rim chen du chung wa? Does that have to be one after the other?

I'm sorry, yeah, yeah. No, 10. Sipa.

10. Okay? Can 8 and 9 be going on still when you get to 10?

Are they still feeding the seed in the last moment that it's ready to break open? They are still feeding the seed. As she opens the door, she's still misunderstanding her husband.

Okay? Say again? No, but we're talking about 8 and 10.

We dumped 11. We're not talking about 11 anymore. We're saying, Oh, all the links have to be sequential?

Well, I guess it's impossible for link 8 to be going on during link number 10, huh? Why? Why do you say that?

Well, because Buddha said 8 triggers 10. You're quoting Buddha. According to you, every time Buddha said, blah triggers blah, it's got to be rim chen du chung wa.

It's got to be sequential. But it doesn't have to be. 8 can still be going on during 10.

And the Buddha said, 8 triggers 10. But this is a trigger where they're both happening at the same time. Okay, got it?

We're going deeper, a little bit deeper. Which one is saying 8 triggers 10? This key.

Right? We said the instrumental was replaced historically by the genitive. Okay?

The 10 of 8. The 10 of 8. Which was a lazy way of writing the 10 triggered by 8.

Okay? And you can go through these keys and genitive possessives your whole life and correct them to S's. But you won't finish in the Wheel of Life literature, in the dependent origination literature.

It became a standard. Okay? I'll say it again.

The 10 of 8. The 10 that belongs to 8 means the 10 triggered by 8. What's 9, Geshe-la?

Gepa, sepa, gupa. I'm sorry, 9. Okay, 9 is even better.

9 is even better. 9 and 10 are not sequential. 9 and 10 are not sequential.

I don't even know if there's a case where they can be sequential. We have to see. Maybe anytime you have 9, you've already made the lady pregnant.

I don't know.

[Speaker 2]
We have to see.

[Speaker 1]
Okay? Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
Can you say number 8 and 9 is like normal desire for two things? Oh, yeah. What's the difference between 8 and 9 in terms of philosophical...

[Speaker 1]
Oh, yeah, that's a good question. Maybe like misunderstanding it, background misunderstanding and active misunderstanding, something like that.

[Speaker 2]
9 and 9 is more half-used.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, more strong. We'll get there. We're going to have the definition.

It's defined... 8 got stronger. It's kind of, you know, why are they divided then?

9 is kind of... Maybe this is the point of why they're divided. Maybe 9 is always the misunderstanding as the seed is pregnant.

Maybe 9 always occurs with 10, but 8 doesn't always occur with 10. Yeah, maybe that's... Yeah, exactly.

Maybe that's why. Maybe that's why. That's a good point.

Maybe we just discovered something about the wheel. Okay, 8 and 9 are divided not because they're not the same thing, but because 9 is occurring with 10 and 8 is not. I mean, that's the Chen theory.

I think it's going to become famous.

[Speaker 2]
Okay. What's that?

[Speaker 1]
Well, no, he's not done. I don't think he's done. Oh, yeah, I probably would about the key.

Yeah, because first I went to and corrected them all. And then I realized that, yeah, it's just a... it's just a...

a convention, exactly. I would put a footnote, maybe. By the way, here's before the convention changed.

I thought you might like to see it. You know, why I was trying to change them all. This is...

This is, I think, Vasubandhu's auto-commentary to the Abhidharmakosha, which is too massively difficult to translate anytime soon. But there, marigpe ken ki. Okay, we'll go back to our text.

lempe ken ki. Okay, ki and ki. Okay, the S makes it longer.

Especially when you're reading to people. This one means the ten of nine. And this one says, down here, right here, ki sipa.

Nine... The ten triggered by nine.

[Speaker 2]
By nine.

[Speaker 1]
The ten by nine and the ten of nine. Okay, so I assert it was a change in convention. Although the sutra was spoken before the auto-commentary.

Okay. All right. Yeah, it just...

And by the way, you're going to see that in other texts. I think Choney Lama tends to do it. Ketub J tends to do it.

He starts to use it as an adjective rather than an instrumental. You know. The eight-ish, the nine-ish ten.

No, you'll see it in other cases and it's kind of frustrating until you get used to it. What I'm saying is you will find cases where an instrumental is written as a genitive. Okay.

I'm sorry. Actually, I suddenly recall an ACI class yesterday with Nick. We were talking about breaking the vow, breaking the root downfall if we have...

Sorry, we were talking about holding the wrong view, the number nine. Yeah, good. It is...

It doesn't need the four chains as long as we have a wrong view then we break the root downfall. So my question to him is that we are basically having a wrong view all the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So does it mean that we are breaking the vow all the time? It has to be so strong a wrong view that you talk about it. I think you could use a general rule like that.

You have to be running around telling people there's no rebirth. Could this be the... Could this be the distinction between eight and nine?

Nine could be... The eight is... The nine is the one that is breaking the vow but eight might not be the one...

That sounds... Yeah, that's a nice correlation. That's a nice correlation between the upstairs and the downstairs.

It's like Adam marrying Katie. By the way, Adam's grandfather who brought him up, his mother's father, father figure in his life, because his father was not there, is dying today. Oh, today.

So he's close. So I told him go back. Go back home and...

You know, yeah. And he's really... It hurts him a lot because he...

That was his father. So if you get a chance to write him, just...

[Speaker 2]
I don't know.

[Speaker 1]
But I said you should go. Okay. Now, somehow, we're going to come back with why he cannot agree that just because the Buddha talked about the nine of ten, or the ten of nine, that they have to be sequential.

Now we're going to say you can't agree that just because the Buddha talked about nine triggering ten, that therefore they have to be sequential. He's going to say... We say, are you telling me that ten has to occur after nine?

We went down. Sarcastic. Are you telling me that ten has to occur after nine?

Well, why? What's this rikpa gotsum? It's a parallel reasoning.

Because Buddha also said nine triggers ten. Right? His argument was the Buddha said that three triggers...

what? Ten triggers eleven. Okay?

Before, he said, Buddha said ten triggers eleven. Yeah, and they have to be sequential. Because Buddha said they trigger each other.

So we come back with, oh, okay, then nine triggers ten, right? And he says, well, yeah. Okay?

Buddha said that too. And then, now we've got to prove why they can be simultaneous. Okay?

That's where we're supposed to go next. Let's see if he does... Okay.

Alright, so, the tell, just to remind you of the tell, was, are you telling me that nine has to come before ten? Must come before ten. Why?

Because Buddha said nine triggers ten. And you just said if ten triggers eleven, they have to be simultaneous. They have to be sequential.

Okay, go. Well, Utpala forgot the plain. Criticize him for something.

His whole life he's just praised. Find something. Okay.

Wait, wait. Start again. If he doesn't say, then criticize him.

Yang Si Chi Mei, Nam Ming, Chi Pung, Chi Pung Po, Peng Che Ki Le, La She Len, She Len, She Len, Ni, Ni, Ni Ki, So Tap, Si, Su, Su Tap, Si, Si, Si, Su Tap, Si, Le, Yu, Pa, Tu, Tu Chen, Du, Tu, Chi Mei, Yang Si, Chi, Yang Si, Chi Mar, Ke Wa, Len Pei, Chi. Okay, good. The word...

Now, there's an important new idiom here for the Wheel of Life. So, it's specific to your text. And it's a beautiful, important verb.

You know, I... I'm one of those weird people who gets turned on by new verbs. I'm like, Veronica, look, I found this new verb.

She's like, yeah, okay. So, this is the So in Sojong, for example. Which means to fix something or it also means to...

What do parents do to their kids? It means to, like, feed them. What's the word in English?

Nurture. I always forget this word. Yeah, nurture.

Okay? So, So-wa can mean to repair a broken house or something. Like, I have to sew up my floor right now.

You have to call the insurance company and see if they care about it. I took a photo. Okay, so So means to fix.

But it also means to nurture. Parents sew up their kids. It means they feed them, they get them to go to sleep.

Yes? It's all, like, in...

[Speaker 2]
Related. Obviously related.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, S as opposed to TS. But we saw that with Sim and Sim yesterday, didn't we?

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
So, yeah, linguistically, there's probably, there's definitely a connection. Okay. So, So-wa means to...

to... to nurture. Sundep.

So, now we got Sultep, Seldep, and Sundep. Okay? We got Seltep, Sultep, and now we got Sutep.

And the first three letters are the same, so be careful. GS. Especially the GS, right?

Seltep, GS. Sundep, GS. Sundep.

GS. Okay? So, you're going to confuse them.

So, Sundep means to nurture, or to feed. Okay? But, Rinpoche used to explain it to me.

As I told you the story, but I'm going to tell you again. We were learning this from him. I found this book in his library called, The King of Dhyana and the Wheel of Life.

And I was like, what's this about? He made me clean his books. And I was like, wow, what's this one about?

He says, well, I'll teach you someday. And then one day he said, okay, let's read this book. And it took like three years.

He had a special class on it for like three years. And he taught us the Wheel of Life. So anyway, I remember saying, what's this Sundep?

You know, I don't understand this Sundep. And then one day, he's banging on the floor, which means run up and look at what's on TV. And I ran up, and he loved to watch the news every night.

He watched all the news, like for two hours. Or whatever he was doing, I don't know. But he said, look at this.

And they would take a break in the news show, and Ivana White, is her name? Would come out in a miniskirt, a beautiful American lady in a miniskirt, and she will pick the lottery number for the country, or for the state. She will reach in and pick it out.

So she will spin the thing, and then it will stop, and she'll close her eyes, and nobody's looking at her eyes anyway. And she picked the number out, and she'd announced it on TV, and he said, sundep. Sundep.

Yeah, he said, that's this word, sutup. Yeah, almost that. He related this to choosing your lottery number.

Like your mind is full of seeds. And then, as we learned in the rules of prioritization of karma, the fifth by four, you know, there's prioritization. When you get close to a major transition karmically, and this is something we're learning in DCI, when you get close to a major transition karmically, it's like the gravity in a black hole.

It starts to suck things into it, okay? So even if you do a major good deed before you die, it may not be stronger than the seed that's plucked out by Vanna White in the moment of your death, in the moment of the tsamjorwa, in the moment of the crossing. And that's why it's important that you shouldn't be making noise in a dead person, you know, as the person dies.

You shouldn't be irritating them, or crying, or yelling at them, or distracting them. Because if they think, I go to hell, or something like that, that little thought, because of the gravity of that moment, it's going to be stronger than two or three years of good deeds, you see? And they'll sundeb that seed, you see?

So at the same time, so understand it that way. You see, which seed is going to get sundeb by selen just before rebirth? You've got millions of seeds in your mind, billions.

So how is the seed chosen? It's chosen by nine and ten, by your feelings of misunderstanding seeds. So they're related.

The powers that make the seed ready for rebirth are also the powers of misunderstanding, okay? And are also the powers that select the seed. Because you've got millions of seeds.

So which one you're closer to that black hole, gravity well, is the one that's going to open. And it will override years of goodness, okay? It's a weird thing, okay?

Anyway, we'll get into it later, but just appreciate this word sundeb. Eight and nine sundeb ten. Eight and nine are dressing ten for the show, okay, for the dance, you know?

Dance is eleven, right? Rebirth. And then eight and nine are getting ten ready for the dance, you know?

And yeah, eight and nine are feeding ten like a child, nurturing ten, and then it's ready to give a result of a rebirth, okay? Then that verb, the feeding process, is called sundeb. You have to anticipate that he's probably going to say here that that happens at the same time as the...

They're still dressing her at the last minute before the wedding. People are still putting on jewelry and putting on makeup, and that's still happening during ten. So nine and ten don't have to be sequential.

Probably he's going to say that. We can anticipate that he's going to say that. As a translator, you have to be thinking about what's logically coming next, and then you can find it instead of figuring it out.

Okay? Find it instead of figuring it out. Okay?

All right. Go on.

[Speaker 2]
Can we just ask you for the sundeb? Can you spell it?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Aung da deng bun de ba sa deb. Normally.

Or let's drop the S. Aung da deng bun de ba de. This is past tense.

Top. Okay? But normally, it's a big heavy prenasal with a deng bu.

Sundeb. Deba means to plant a seed. It's a verbalizer, like gyup or chippa.

It's a verbalizer. Okay? Thank you.

Thank you. I like that gravity well.