Классика Алмазного огранщика: Нижний Срединный путь — Анализ зависимости, занятие 11

[Speaker 1]
Okay, here we go. Sashimi. YAM GURU RATNAMANDA KAM NIRYATAYAMI SANGYE CHUDANG SOG GI CHOG NAMLA GYAM CHU BAR DU DAG NI GYAP SU CHI DAG GI CHUNG YIN GYI PASENAM GI DRO LAB PEN CHIR SANGYE DRUB PAR CHOK SANGYE CHUDANG SOG GI CHOG NAMLA GYAM CHU BAR DU DAG NI GYAP SU CHI DAG GI CHUNG YIN GYI PASENAM GI DRO LAB PEN CHIR SANGYE DRUB PAR CHOK SANGYE CHUDANG SOG GI CHOG NAMLA GYAM CHU BAR DU DAG NI GYAP SU CHI DAG GI CHUNG YIN GYI PASENAM GI DRO LAB PEN CHIR SANGYE DRUB PAR CHOK All right. I feel like a professor of mugwort or something. Sugeng is going to read and everyone is going to be quiet and listen to him.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, go ahead. GYIK THA LENG KYE YIN NA YAN LAG CHU NYID GYI THOG MA MA RIG GYUR PA'I MA RIG PA YIN PA'I GYAP SER NA Good.

[Speaker 1]
You are embarrassing everybody. The only comment I have is GYUR, GYUR. It's not an English sound.

We don't have it in English. GYUR. If it was GYUR, it would change meaning.

Okay. Somebody says, if something is the inborn form of the destruction view, then it must be that misunderstanding, MA RIG PA, which is the first of the twelve links. Okay, so THOG MA means first.

Here. THOG MA RIG GYUR PA'I YIN LAG CHU NYID This is going to be a mantra for you for the rest of your life. YIN LAG CHU NYID, the twelve links.

Okay, YIN LAG CHU NYID. By the way, there are huge discussions of the twelve links that have nothing to do with the Wheel of Life. It was invented before the...

Well, there are many, many books about the twelve links that don't talk about the Wheel of Life. It's just the twelve links. The twelve links were painted on the Wheel of Life, but they exist for a long time before that.

Okay. All right. GYUR RIG PA'I YIN LAG CHU NYID Okay, here's our counterexample, which is the coffee.

When the guy said, all liquids are orange juice, right? If it's a liquid, it must be orange juice. Here's our counterexample, CHOD CHEN.

Well, let's talk about... What's a GYUN ZHUGS?

[Speaker 2]
A stream enterer. What's that? A stream enterer.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. Normally a person who's seeing emptiness directly or just saw emptiness directly. DE NAS is a Tantrical word.

Okay. Does anybody remember? All of the four results of the Path of Virtue, which are what?

[Speaker 2]
Stream enterer. Once returner.

[Speaker 1]
Non-returner. Arhat. They're all divided into two stages.

One is... Well, one is while you're in the actual meditation, and then after that you come out and you are established in the result. Those four are called the results of the virtue of this path, right?

So, this is when you... This is the second half of those four stages, where it's called established in the result. So, it's the second stage.

[Speaker 2]
Of each one?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, each one has DE NAS. Oh, I was afraid you were going to ask me that. DE NAS and...

DE NAS... It's an Abhidharma thing. DE NAS and GYUN ZHIG...

Is it GNYONG? GNYONG? Let me see.

DE NAS. I will go look it up in the Abhidharma literature. Word is trying to beat you.

Oh, well, God bless. Okay. I think it's...

Yeah, is it SHUG PA? SHUG PA, I guess. Yeah.

Entered and staying in the result. Yeah, here it is. SHUG PA and DE NAS.

Okay. Entered and established in the result. Okay.

Anyway, let's see where he goes with it, and we'll understand more about DE NAS. Okay. DARE TAL or DARE TAL?

We just gave our counterexample.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, dumb.

[Speaker 1]
Sarcastic. Are you telling me... Okay, are you telling me it's orange juice?

Okay. DARE TAL. Are you telling me it's the first of the twelve links?

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Are you telling me it's the first of the twelve links? Ignorance, a misunderstanding which is the first of the twelve links. Why do you say that?

Because it is an inborn form of the destruction view. Okay. The inborn form of the destruction view in the mind of a person who's in the second part of the stream-enterer.

Okay. DARE TAL DE PHYIR. PHYIR PHYIR DU YIN PA'I PHYIR.

Why do you say he has jikta-sankhye? Because we just said he had it.

[Speaker 2]
DE YOD PA'I PHYIR.

[Speaker 1]
DE YOD PA'I PHYIR means and that kind of person does exist. Okay. So it might be surprising for, you know, people.

What was that? It might be surprising for people to think that a person who just saw emptiness directly after in the second part of that experience now they have the inborn form of... of misunderstanding again, destruction view.

Does that make sense that he has it? She has it? Yeah, because you go back to seeing things as coming this way.

You don't believe it. Did they get rid of any kind of jikta? Yeah, but not the inborn kind of jikta.

Yeah, gunta. Okay, gunta. Okay, they don't intellectually...

Sometimes I translate it as intellectually, but it's gunta, learned, right? DE YOD PA'I PHYIR DE RGYUD LANG NYON MONGS CAN GYI YOD PA'I PHYIR Now this is really interesting. He must have an inborn form of the view of destruction because he does have inborn negative emotions.

What's the khyaba there? If someone has inborn negative emotions, they have the inborn tendency to be destructible. Yeah.

Which means you can't get rid of it till... Till you get rid of all your inborn... Till arhat, yeah, until arhat.

All right, that's the implication of the... Okay. Somehow that's not the first one.

Yeah, that's true. I wouldn't have known that. Well, here's the clarification.

[Speaker 2]
Great.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, well, that's the point. The fact that we wouldn't have known that is why it's in here. RTZA RGYUD NA If you do agree that it's the first link...

That's me. Okay, if you do agree that it's misunderstanding acting as the first link, RGYUN ZHUGS BDE NAS DE YANG ZHIG PHYI MIN NAM YIN GYI PHUNG PO PHEN CHE GYI LAS SAR DU SOGS PA YOD PA LTA So, that person who's at the second part of the stream-entering experience must be... SOGS...

This spelling means collecting, accumulating. It's obviously related to... SOGS Okay.

Okay. SAR DU means new. Okay.

New karma.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. Yeah, I will. Oh, the cursor.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. Okay.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Do you want a pizza also?

[Speaker 2]
I mean, you asked.

[Speaker 1]
That's as big as I can get it. Okay. Dimitri.

SAR DU NA Okay. So, are you telling me that that guy at the stream-entering, okay, is making, is collecting new karma, which would... PHEN CHE, those of you who were in the DCI class yesterday, which would project, okay, which would project new heaps, new body and mind, which are a ripening of karma.

YANG ZHIG PHYI MIN In the next life. YANG ZHIG means next life. ZHIG PA'I KHOR LO means what?

[Speaker 2]
The Wheel of Life.

[Speaker 1]
So, this ZHIG, that's the spelling, S-R-I-D, is the spelling for the word ZHIG PA'I KHOR LO. Jigme, you got to focus. I need some focus.

Okay. I was just turning it up, so... Okay, good.

YANG ZHIG PHYI MIN Okay. So, are you telling me that they are collecting new karma, which would project into the future life, right? Parts of a person, body and mind, which are NAM-IN.

So, NAM-IN means a ripening of karma. Okay, which are NAM-IN. Yeah, I was working on words text.

I'm still flabbergasted. But, it's just stuck in my mind. NAM-IN is a nickname for the first half of the KUN-CHI.

Yeah, and that's causing me trouble. Yeah, the basic half. Because BAK-CHAK is the next half.

Anyway, I mean, that helped me today, but it didn't help me much. Okay, so anyway, what do you think? Does a stream enter and make new karma to have future life?

Let me ask the first question. Will they have a future life? Or could they have a future life?

Yeah, if they don't get to Arhat in this life, they're going to have a future life. But, are they making new karma to have a future life? That's the point.

They don't make new karma to have a future life. And that's why we call LEN-DUM-PA-WA. Yeah, and if you see emptiness directly, you may very well have a direct perception that you will have seven lifetimes more.

Which is a big deal. Because you've had billion, billion, billion, billion, billion, you know, no count. Now suddenly, seven more.

And it's... question? Why in the middle of where I'm saying something?

Go ahead. Let me finish that, because it's very important. Yeah, let me finish that.

Seven more lifetimes is compared to... Yeah, infinite is a big deal. It feels really...

you feel really happy. Five hundred more years to go. And it passes very quickly.

Life passes very quickly. Seven lifetimes is nothing. And then you're a Buddha, you know.

So, you see that directly. So, that's kind of exciting. And it's exactly seven.

Which... which... wait.

Which is the... oh, I lost it. Which is implied here.

You see what I mean? Which means you must always have seven lifetimes worth of seeds hanging around. You see what I mean?

Because he's not making... he's not making nuance. He's not making nuance.

Now, if he practices tantra or something, can he shorten it to one? Yes. If he or she meets an extraordinary teacher and learns more things, can they shorten it?

Yes. But seven is not bad. But the number seven, which is in the Abhidharma, it's...

this is the cause, this is the reason why, okay? An Arya, someone who's finished jinshu, the first part, seen emptiness directly, even in the hours after that, they no longer ever make new karma to become... to be reborn, but they still have old karma to be reborn.

Now, questions? I was just wondering if they could deliberately make karma if they wanted a certain lifetime. No.

I mean... no, nobody would want to. Nobody would want to.

That's a misinformation, that a bodhisattva tries to get reborn or something like that. If you become a Buddha, you can emanate anywhere you want, in a zillion worlds. So, why be born one more time in one world?

You see? That's a misinformation about bodhisattvas. Wait, her turn first.

[Speaker 2]
Was it you who asked the question? Yeah. They say that Amitreya was 500 years dead.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, it does. Next question.

[Speaker 2]
Would this be in this school, and Prasangika would say something different, since there are no seeds sitting around somewhere, to ripen in seven years?

[Speaker 1]
Well, he's about to quote... Oh, you mean, does everybody accept this? As far as I know, everybody accepts this.

[Speaker 2]
So, even though Prasangika says you're creating your karmic seeds in this instance.

[Speaker 1]
Any other questions?

[Speaker 2]
If they don't make new karma, does it...

[Speaker 1]
To be reborn. Be careful.

[Speaker 2]
So, they don't make any new karma?

[Speaker 1]
That isn't what he said here. He said, no new karma to throw a new lifetime. Because they haven't really completed it.

Right. They still have 83,997 mental afflictions. So, they're still making karma, but that karma, because of that experience, cannot throw a new life.

It will never be strong enough to throw a new life. Okay? It's interesting.

That's why they call him stream-enter, because they're on their way out. Another question? Wait.

[Speaker 2]
What's his question?

[Speaker 1]
If they agree to what again? If you agree that his inborn misunderstanding acts as the first link.

[Speaker 2]
This is our counter now. In this particular being.

[Speaker 1]
Does he have misunderstanding? Yes or no?

[Speaker 2]
Yes.

[Speaker 1]
Are you? Yeah. Is it khenke?

[Speaker 2]
No. Well, she's showing this.

[Speaker 1]
The khenke is...

[Speaker 2]
Is it inborn?

[Speaker 1]
Yes. But it's not marikpa khenke. Yes.

No, it is ignorance. It is misunderstanding. It's marikpa khenke.

It's even worse. But it does not act as the yellow tumble. It cannot act as the first link.

Because that means, first link must mean, a link that can throw new karma and cause a new life. Which is why it's in the Wheel of Life. So we learned a lot already.

We just learned a lot. Any other questions? No.

Okay. Here we go. Did you have another question?

[Speaker 2]
I was thinking perhaps they could shape their next life.

[Speaker 1]
Like, you know, I want to be reborn as the emperor of China. So you're already in Arya, but you want to be, you know, some... Well, possible.

Yeah, they call it Mun Lang Kitab. You know, Buddha prayed to be born here and stuff like that. Yeah, that's possible.

So there's karma to create. Okay. Now, this is extremely important, because he's going to say, you can't agree to what?

You can't agree that he's collecting new karma to throw a new body and mind created by karma. Okay. Notice he said, naminki, body and mind.

Created by karma. Body and mind created by karma. Because if he becomes a Buddha, he can throw a body, which is, you know, Buddha's body.

[Speaker 2]
An emanation body.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, an emanation body. So dumi nitye, you can't agree that he is collecting new karma to be forced to take a body, because the commentary to the Dependent Sutra, which I believe is probably Vasubandhu, but I'm not sure. We can look it up.

It says, denpa ton la penpa me. Translate. Come on, this is easy.

I'm not even going to give two dollars for this one.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, brother. Is half of the past seen as a projective? No.

No. No projective.

[Speaker 1]
I'll give you a clue. This is a clause. For a person...

[Speaker 2]
For a person who has seen the truth...

[Speaker 1]
Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
There's no projective.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, there's no projective. For a person who has seen the truth, or who is seeing the truth, there's no longer any showing a new life.

[Speaker 2]
What person again?

[Speaker 1]
Who has seen the truth. For them, la, there is no more penpa. For a person who is free of rebirth, free of life, samsara.

This is samsara, like Śrī Prakara. There's no rebirth. But he did a pun, right?

For a person who doesn't have C, there's no second C. There's no rebirth. For a person who has escaped the world of pain, there's no rebirth.

Okay, śrī-saṃvīcchā. Now let's go see who said that. Because I believe it's Vāsabandhu.

I'm not going to do penpa me. Why not? Focus.

Please focus. I'm going to try to get in line there. Penpa me.

Huh? No, there's too many spellings of it. It's a bad thing to look for.

You know? Well, let's look for it. I don't see anything better.

Okay, so we're going to... Where do we look? Good.

Good. So, is there no drāpas in the Kaṅgyā? There's one famous one.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, there's... What I really meant.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, dode gongja. Dode gongja. An explanation of what I really meant.

Okay, but anyway, 99.999 is going to be in the Kaṅgyā. What? I must have looked up something wrong.

I must have hit the wrong thing. I think I still got this turned on. It was too fast to be the 10-year.

There you go. Okay, commentaries to sutras. That's the section we're in.

Okay, commentaries to sutras. Okay, so just to make your life easy. You know, and if...

We're going to take it down to the page number, right? And then we're going to command exit. And then we're going to create a big hole.

[Speaker 2]
Thank you very much.

[Speaker 1]
Now, somebody should confirm that 3995. Who wrote it? I think it's Vasubandhu, but I'm not sure.

True. It's Vasubandhu? Yeah.

Okay, so it's Vasubandhu's commentary. By the way, I translated the whole thing. It took me months.

Because I wanted to understand it. By the way, I need the Sunim censure commentary on the 12 links. I need it.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Is this something like yesterday?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
But, you know, I'm using it for Buddha Buddha. But that's to explain why I'm not going to have anything ready by Buddha Buddha. I'll have a small reading.

But I'm not going to have a 2,000 page book. Because I'm doing this. Okay?

Alright. But it's going to be cool. And I'll work on it.

[Speaker 2]
So are we taking a handout or something?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, it'll be a nice handout. And I'll give you time to translate it. So don't stress too much.

Probably Stanley can do the Chinese. I'll do like a 20 page reading for Buddha Buddha. Okay?

That's after the August tour. After China. After Shenzhen.

[Speaker 2]
No, we are immediately after that.

[Speaker 1]
Right. Yeah. We go to China.

Then we go to Indonesia. Did you send that to the security bureau? Yeah.

What? You gotta send it. Okay.

Today, okay? If you can. Okay, so apparently he feels that that discussion's over.

We established it. Okay? By the way, I'm trying to find other sources that say that.

And mostly it's Vasubandhu's commentary that says that. You know. It's not common to find other proofs of that.

But, okay. Kajiknare. Please read.

[Speaker 2]
Kajiknare. Okay, good.

[Speaker 1]
If you say the definition of the misunderstanding, which is the first link, is... Here's where the definition stops, okay? Is the jikta, the destruction view, which acts to motivate.

Kune long, here is a verb, which acts, chepa, or which functions, chepa, to kune long, which means to motivate. Fresh, okay? This sadhu has been butchered by many translators.

It just means fresh karma. They will say newly or something and everybody's like, whoa. Okay.

Fresh karma, which is the second link. So, he wants to define the first link as misunderstanding, okay, which triggers. Sometimes I say triggers.

I might say a new form of fresh karma. So, I translate the second link as fresh karma. It means newly planted.

It means a watermelon seed that you just planted, okay? And then, just before the spell comes out, it's number ten. It's number ten.

Link number ten is called seepa, becoming. But Rinpoche and I worked out this translation. Number two is fresh karma.

Number ten is ripe karma. Okay, so ripe karma means the moment before the spell comes out, a couple weeks later. Fresh karma is the day it was put in the ground.

Okay, that's the distinction between two and ten. Okay, so, a new form of... You can say a new form of fresh karma, okay?

Now, there's something wrong with this definition, okay? All right? The definition of the first link is the link which triggers the second link.

A new form of the second link, fresh karma, okay? There's something wrong with this definition. Somewhere there's something wrong, and we're going to learn something new to this debate, okay?

And by the time you finish these debates with the other guys' wrong view, you should be able to write the definition yourself. That's the goal, you know? If we weren't in a hurry.

We're always in a hurry. YEN LA NYID PA'I DU BYED KYI LIG PAS BRAL BA'I RGYUD PA'I YEN LA DANG PO'I MA RIG PA'I PHYIR CHEN This is an interesting counterexample. Okay, here's his coffee.

Take the... first link. Take the misunderstanding first link, which is the result of the second link.

What?

[Speaker 2]
There's something in the second link.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, which is the result of the fresh karma of the second link. Is there such a thing as misunderstanding which is triggered by the second link?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, if you count the whole rest of the wheel.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, got it?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. Sorry, repeat again?

[Speaker 1]
You have a first first link. Yes. You misunderstand something.

Because of that you make karma, fresh karma. And then that karma is going to... those karmic seeds are going to produce more misunderstanding.

Which is in each of the other ten. Because it's not like at the link of feeling you don't have the other parts. You see, we talked about it yesterday I think.

Why we call link number seven feeling is that feeling is the main thing. But it's not like you're not you. It's not like you don't have a body, you don't have two arms, two legs.

Those are all in each of the links. You're carrying misunderstanding through all of the links. I think that's the point he's trying to make here.

And that misunderstanding has come from karma. That's the karma that you made in link number two. From an original first link.

So it gets complicated. Let's take that misunderstanding, link number one, which is the result of the second link, in the next spinning of the wheel. Okay?

So, in your tenth lifetime, it was created by misunderstanding that was created by karma from your eighth lifetime. You see what I mean? That's why it's a wheel.

It's not a wheel just in one life. One wheel triggers another wheel, triggers another wheel, triggers another wheel. Okay, so the first link of one wheel is coming from the second link of the wheel before.

Okay? In past life. Okay?

Got it? So the wheels are interconnected like this. Yeah, it's not just one wheel.

It's not one times two to twelve and you're done. It's that you get to two and that triggers a new wheel. You see what I mean?

Bad news. It's like, oh gosh. It's just like credit card debt or something, you know?

Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Sanyidat Thal, are you saying your little definition fits this? Okay?

Is this misunderstanding which has triggered a second link? Because that was your definition. Are you telling me your definition fits this?

Then he says, why do you say that? And we say, because this is the first link. This is an example of the first link.

You tried to give me a definition for the first link. So I guess this fits your definition, right? Sarcastically.

Because apparently it doesn't fit his definition. Right? Because it isn't triggering the second link.

It's the result of the second link. Another second link. Yeah, let's see how he goes.

Let's see where he goes with it. Are you telling me your definition fits this first link? Because it is a first link.

Okay? It is a first link. Why do you say that?

Well, it's because of the example I gave you. Because... then he says, because they trigger...

wheels trigger wheels. Okay? Wheels trigger wheels.

And then he gives a famous example of wheels triggering wheels. And it's called gelme korlo. Okay?

Gelme. So you know gelwa as what? Contradictory.

It means contradictory. But gelme is totally different, okay? So don't think contradictory.

Gelme means it's night time and you have a torch. Okay? And it's dark.

It's totally dark. And you spin it like this. Yeah, and it looks like a solid wheel.

[Speaker 2]
Okay?

[Speaker 1]
And you're spinning it. It's a famous example. Okay?

[Speaker 2]
I don't know.

[Speaker 1]
It's some... I don't know. I don't think it has...

I'm not aware of any separate meaning. And it could be spelled differently actually. I don't know.

Like a spinning torch circle on a dark night or something like that.

[Speaker 2]
I don't know.

[Speaker 1]
Okay? But what he means to say is wheels trigger wheels trigger wheels. Like this, you know.

Then, you know. The point is that you're seeing all 12 are happening one after the other but it's so fast it looks like a wheel. Yeah, okay.

They also use the example of paddy wheels in an irrigation to bring the water to a higher field. Yeah. Sometimes they use that one.

So, tendrel yen la chi nubpo de these 12 links of the dependence, okay? Without any... rim is like lam rim.

Stages. Korim means order. Like number one first, number two second, number three third.

That means korim. Korim. Korim.

Na chi means previous and later. Previous and later korim. Okay?

Me.

[Speaker 2]
If there's no order.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. One triggers two then two triggers one. Got it?

It's weird. Okay. Out of order.

Out of sequential order. It's not really out of sequential order but it feels like that. One triggers a two then the two triggers another one.

So it's almost like it went backwards. You see what I mean? Not really.

It triggered a one of a new wheel. You see what I mean? So it went one, two, one.

With regard to two lives. But in one life it goes one, two, three.

[Speaker 2]
Okay?

[Speaker 1]
So here, you ready? One, two, one, three. Okay?

Then two, one, four. And it's all, you know, it's getting confused.

[Speaker 2]
There's a huge problem which is that if a two necessarily triggers a one that necessarily triggers...

[Speaker 1]
Well, I'll tell you the punchline, okay? He wants the punchline. Usually you make people wait.

Our own definition is going to say something like, which the definition of the first link is that which triggers the second link which is, which is the corresponding second link. You see what I mean? Or which is its result.

You see what I mean? It's going to say within one wheel. You see what I mean?

You have to say the second link which is its corresponding second link in the same wheel and not the next one.

[Speaker 2]
This is our stance.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. We will say, wrong this or your birth, something like that, which is its immediate result or something like that. We will add some word.

But he wants you to appreciate why we add it later. There's going to be some weird language like the first link which triggers the second link which is its result. Something like that.

And then you're going to say, why he added that? It means we're going to stick to one wheel. Okay?

Not that it triggers another wheel. Okay? So, it's true that link number one...

It's true that link number two can trigger link number one but not in one wheel. Not if you restrict yourself to one wheel. You understand?

So, there's going to be some kind of language in our definition later. Our definition gets really long because you have to add all these qualifiers. Okay.

All right. Uh... tsun ja di yinpichun.

chur chen di yinpichun. Why... Why...

Why do you say tsun ja? Tsun ja... What's tsun ja?

[Speaker 2]
An example. An illustrative example.

[Speaker 1]
Uh-uh. It's the opposite of chen yi.

[Speaker 2]
Oh. Oh, I... It's a fine thing.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. The thing which is defined. Chen yi means definition.

Tsun ja means what you're defining. There's a technical word in English but nobody uses it. The thing to be defined.

What's the thing we're trying to define here? First link. We're trying to define misunderstanding as the first link.

Okay. That's what we're trying to define. Okay.

And we said, are you telling me that's a definition? Are you telling me your definition fits this guy? And he says, why do you say that?

Chi chir. He says, chi chir here. And we say, well, because this is...

This is an example of a first link. Okay. What?

This first link, which was triggered by link two.

[Speaker 2]
Wow. Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. Are you telling me, you know, your definition fits it? Why do you say that?

Well, because it is a first link. It's a first link. It's just been triggered by number two.

It's not triggering number two. It's been triggered by number two.

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Is the reason that he chose the second rather than the twelfth or something? Yeah, you could... Maybe he'll do that later.

Maybe he'll mess with that later. This is easier. CHOS CAN DU YIN PA'I PHYIR TE Now, he's going to go off on why...

why there does exist a first link which is triggered by a... second link. It is possible.

Why? DRIN DRANG YIN LA CHOS NI PO DE Oh, we already said that. Because the whole thing works like a firewheel.

And then he quotes Rinchen Trenwa. LAM GSUM THOG TA'U MED PAR KHOR BA'I KHYING RGYAL GYAL ME YIN KHYING RGYAL DRAG PA PHAN THAM DU RGYUL KHYEN GYIS NI KHUR BA'ANG PHYIR I'm not comfortable with LAM GSUM. I got to go look that up.

Okay. Three paths. I'm not comfortable with that.

I want to go look it up. Okay. This rest is easy.

THOG... THOG MA and TA and U. The end...

I'm sorry. The beginning, the end, and the middle. Okay.

There's a famous prayer by Tsongkhapa called the virtuous beginning, middle, and end. You know. You should...

When you do a good karma, start out with a good motivation. While you're doing it, enjoy the karma. And then at the end, do coffee meditation.

So, it's called good in the beginning, good in the middle, and good at the end. And they use this language, THOG DA U. So, this U means the duration of the karma, right?

Anyway, it has no beginning, it has no end, and it has no middle. You know, if there's triggered many wheels, which one's in the middle? Which one's in the beginning?

Which one's at the end? You can't say. Khorway Kingkor.

Yeah, this Kingkor means mandala, but it can mean a disc, or any circle shape. It's just another way to say a circle. By the way, sometimes the sun is called a Kingkor, or a mandala, meaning a disc, a round thing.

Okay. So, the circle of samsara, okay, the circle of samsara, I call it the circle of pain. Sometimes they're called Khorway cycle of pain, samsara.

By the way, never use the word samsara in a translation. It's because it's a... It's a hard word.

[Speaker 2]
No, it's a translation. Okay.

[Speaker 1]
I was looking up Sankhya websites yesterday also, because I was like, I just want to confirm the spelling of things. And they're like, you know, the Prakriti goes to the Purusha, and then the Tattvas goes to the Dhammatras, and there's just a few English verbs between all this. Sounds good.

Don't make that kind of translation. Okay. Khorway Kingkor.

Gyelmeyi Kingkor Tabur, which is like a spinning torch, okay, which is like a spinning torch. Tabur. Pensun du gyur khen.

You get mutual causes, and things are causing each other. Okay. The second link is causing the first link, and the first link is causing the second link.

Okay. It gets mixed up. Pensun means mutually, you know, each other.

Pensun du gyur khen. They're acting as causes and conditions of each other. Okay.

Not technically, right? It's causing the misunderstanding of the next wheel. Technically, the misunderstanding that triggered the karma in one wheel isn't then caused by the karma of that wheel.

But maybe it is. Okay. Khorway gyur.

That's how things spin. That's how things spin. Things are mutual causes and conditions.

Shesun beechun. Okay. That's how it spins?

Or is it like that those spin the wheel?

[Speaker 2]
I'm sorry?

[Speaker 1]
Those causes and conditions spin the wheel? Because of them, you spin. Uh-huh.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, yeah. So this is a verb khorway. You spin.

This is a noun, sansara.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, okay.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, got it? Two different words.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, okay.

[Speaker 1]
Same spelling. Same spelling. Well, the R is connected.

It's not part of the word. But khorway can mean a noun or a verb. You spin, or it's called the wheel.

Here it's a verb. You will spin because of these causes and conditions.

[Speaker 2]
What is this R then?

[Speaker 1]
It will cause you two spin.

[Speaker 2]
Oh, okay.

[Speaker 1]
Okay, it's the two in English. Are you going to shuffle the three passes or something?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, that's fine. Oh, yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Do I have to?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. I'm going to shuffle.

[Speaker 1]
Somebody's got to do it. Yeah, it's not going to be us. I'm thinking it might refer to the traditional presentation of the wheel is in three lifetimes.

[Speaker 2]
Oh.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. Usually, when you present the wheel, you talk about three lifetimes. Something in the first life triggers this in the second life, triggers this in the third life.

Normally, in 112 links, you've got three lifetimes going on. The link number one happened in the previous life, maybe. Let me think about this.

Yeah. No, sorry. Link number one, link number two happened in the previous life.

You don't understand and you make karma. Then, that causes in the second life, it triggers the consciousness to enter the womb, and what they call the seven result links. And then, in the third life, you're doing more ignorance.

In the second wheel, you're doing more ignorance and that creates the 10 and 11. Sorry, 11 and 12, which is rebirth and old age.

[Speaker 2]
I see. Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Okay. So, really, 11 and 12 are one lifetime, and 3 to 10 are another lifetime, and 1 and 2 are in the past lifetime. So, really, every wheel has three lifetimes in it.

Maybe that's the lump sum here. But why they call it three paralysis? All right, let's go see.

[Speaker 2]
Yay. Yay.

[Speaker 1]
It's kind of, I mean, I would check it first to make sure it's really that lump sum. Okay. So, I would check that in the ten gear, because Rinchen Tengwa was an epistle to a king, I think.

By whom?

[Speaker 2]
Nagarjuna.

[Speaker 1]
By Nagarjuna. But are there other books called Rinchen Tengwa? Ah, there are.

I guess that's the one, if he just calls it Rinchen Tengwa. He's quoting a Rinchen Tengwa, this person, which I think is Chandrakirti. Yeah, here's Trignik, okay, epistles.

So, it is lump sum, so it's not a mistake. I was hoping it was a mistake, because it would make my life easier. They spelled gel differently, or is that...? I think this gel is more correct. I think the other gel is the gel for contradictory. Now, this is a kind of thing you can look up in Saracandadas, and he's not bad for being a hundred years old. That doesn't help much.

Here, geldom.

[Speaker 2]
Geldom.

[Speaker 1]
You see? Here, a fire brand. Okay, torch.

So, I guess the gel means the piece of wood. And the fire is the lit part on the end. Okay, so, geldom.

Excuse me? Do you have a thing to correct the...? Yeah, I would make a note that it's spelled in the Tengyur, and you have to say, in our edition of the Tengyur, because it could be different in a different edition of the Tengyur, it's spelled gel, M-G-L. They're both tricky, because they are both...

They're both... Pre-nasals. Pre-nasals.

Okay. So, that means, Sugong, we got to... Well, we got to chop this out.

Just so you can have a footnote without looking it up again. Okay, so... And we'll catch the page number for you.

See what I mean? And we'll go put it here.

[Speaker 2]
So, you're saying you're expecting this to be wrong, but it is correct, means this lam su...

[Speaker 1]
I was hoping the lam was mistaken, which would make my life easier. If it had said sesum or something like that, three lifetimes, now we're going to have to go look up a commentary. Okay.

So, now I would look up... Now I would look up lam sum near Tokta. Okay?

And see if anyone gave it... I'll look for three lines, okay? Something like this.

So, I'm going to go see if there's any commentaries in the Tengyur first. This is where the gopher freaks out and turns everything red. All you can do is close it down and start another one.

And, you know, if I had time, I would stop everything and go send it to our programmer. But he knows about it. He needs you to send the words that you search for, and so he can repeat it and see...

I just tried. It didn't happen to me. Yeah, so now it means it's something from the last search or something.

Yeah, or maybe it's because it's Friday or Saturday. Okay, this is... Now, this time we got three matches instead of two.

So, hopefully there's a commentary somewhere. Oh, this is a commentary. This is a commentary.

Uh... Lam sum she jao ni dar jin ma. Thanks a lot.

Uh... Oh, man. He's...

This is a commentary. I have no idea what he's saying. Lam sum she jao ni dar jin ma.

Man. Are you guys okay? You need to turn down the air?

[Speaker 2]
No, it's for...

[Speaker 1]
Oh. Oh.

[Speaker 2]
I don't know what that might be. Well, it could be.

[Speaker 1]
Well, here's how he glossed it, okay? And this is going to be a footnote. But I'm still...

It's still very strange language, okay? Look up trees 870 and see who it is. Okay.

So, here's a... Somebody gave a... Only one person has tried to jayananda, okay?

So, he said, that strange expression, three paths, in this verse, he's talking about this verse. You know, you want to know what the three paths are? Uh...

It's the three paths which have as their... as their nature, okay? Zen i chen, which have as their nature.

Tar dzin pa. Tar dzin pa means... Tar means to be an adult.

Okay. The end of life? Something like that?

No, it's middle age. But if it's what I think it is. It could be nar dzin pa, mistyped.

That would make more sense. No, that would be ignorance, grasping to oneself. I think it's probably nar.

So, now we got a problem on top of a problem. Okay. That would make more sense.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
I only just thought of that. So, nar dzin pa, holding to me, then the karma you make, and then the birth you create. That makes a lot more sense.

Yeah, yeah. So, the three paths here are the tendency to grasp to yourself, the karma you make from that, and the birth you get from that. Those are the three paths here.

Now, let's go back and look at his verse. Two minutes, Geshe-la. This wheel of the three ways has no beginning, no middle, no end.

So, that makes sense. This cycle of thinking the pen is coming from itself, and then making karma, or thinking the husband comes from themselves, making karma of saying, no, you're a phantom. And then, what was the third one?

[Speaker 2]
Giving birth to the next life.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, rebirth, new birth. That mini-cycle, okay, is called the three paths. The three roads that everyone travels.

So, that's a Jayananda's take on lamsum. Apparently, he knew what the lamsum was. Okay, and I'll go with that.

It's good enough for me. You could go to the Sumbhum. You could do the same search in the Sumbhum, okay?

Yeah, I know, but why not? Let's go look. But I'm guessing no one has come up with anything better, because Jayananda is much older than the Tibetans.

So, if a Tibetan... But if it was Tsongkhapa, who said, I have a different idea, I will listen to it. Okay, so here we go.

That's just the quotation of it. Somebody's quoting it. Oh, here.

Yeah, listen, look here. For that, jisid pumbodzinnyapa. Oh, this is pretty cool.

Pumbodzinnyapa. It says Tarzin. It says both.

Oh, what happened? I lost it. Yeah, but it's cool.

[Speaker 2]
I'll tell you why.

[Speaker 1]
Sometimes it does that. Okay, so we're going to quote this. I like this one.

Who is this? Gelob Sherabwombo. Wow, he's the guy who helped us yesterday.

[Speaker 2]
He's like the...

[Speaker 1]
He's like the Lone Ranger. This is like an old TV show, this guy who always shows up and saves people when they need it. Okay, he said...

He went further back in Nagarjuna's text. So he said... And this is very famous.

jisid pumbodzinnyapa As long as you hold your body and mind in the wrong way, tesid de la ngar dzinnya You will hold it to be yourself, which is coming from its own side. So, ngar dzin, not dar dzin. Then here, they also mistyped it here.

Again. This is ngar. Okay, got it?

And if you hold to yourself, then you make karma. And if you have karma, you make rebirth. These three roads that people travel.

So Nagarjuna himself identified the three in the verse before. Okay, in the verse before. And the verse before is very famous.

As long as you hold to your body and mind as being a me, which comes from its own side, then for that long you'll be holding to a me, which comes from its own side. As long as you hold to a me, which comes from its own side, then you will have karma. You will steal pens.

Or you will yell back at your husband. Okay, let's take husband. Anyway, as long as you hold a husband to be coming from his side, then it's possible you will want to yell back.

Phanthong. No, you're phanthong. Okay, because you can only do that if you believe he's coming from his own side.

If you understand he's coming from you, you won't do it, because then you make a new seed, because then next week he will yell at you again.

[Speaker 2]
So, for this case, we can ignore Jayananda's explanation?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, Jayananda's just... Yeah, I would go for this one.

[Speaker 2]
Just go for this one, okay.

[Speaker 1]
You always got to think, which one will make me look smarter? Oh, I mean... Yeah, I'll say, oh, you want to know what the three paths are?

They are what Nagarjuna mentioned just before. But really, it's Jayananda who isolates them. You see, it's just a verse before.

We didn't know the three paths were hidden in the verse before. So, if you want to look smarter than smart, you can say, Jayananda said, let's take these three elements from the verse before, which makes sense. And if you want to be super smart, you can talk about how this dar got slipped in here.

Because the carving for dar is this, and the carving for na is this, and they look very similar. Okay. You can talk about the carving.

Okay. Cool?

[Speaker 2]
It's a carving.

[Speaker 1]
By the way, I'm reminding Nick and Seiji, you are giving a talk in Guadalajara, if you don't mind, you know, on the break days, which is the, I think it's the Friday and Saturday.

[Speaker 2]
I think it's Wednesday, Thursday, Thursday and Friday.

[Speaker 1]
Something like, well, yeah. Yeah, okay. Anyway, start getting ready.

And I know you're exhausted from this program, but that's DCI life. You know, as you end this program, you have to start the next one. You have to start getting ready for the next one.

We have to end, yeah. So, let's just, let me just see, are we done? Yeah, okay.

So, we had that verse, and I think we're going to start a new kanchikma, which is a good place to start. Oh, let's just do, and then you can't agree to the original statement because the example is what it is. Okay, and that's all.

You can't agree that the definition of the first link should be the thing which triggers the second link. Okay? Because sometimes the second link triggers the first link.

He didn't help us resolve it, but when we get to our definition, it's going to say that which triggers the second link, which is its immediate result. Okay? And then you get out of this problem.

But why did he, I had, Gene Smith thought these books were ridiculous. The greatest Tibetan scholar ever in the West thought this literature was just circular reasoning and stuff like that. Because he was never trained in it.

He never went to a monastery. So, what the point is, they're not trying to resolve some little word problem or something like that. They're trying to get you aware of this multiple wheel thing, which is important.

Okay? Wheels tend to proliferate. That's the point.

You start one and then a second starts and that starts two and then you've got eight and then you've got all kinds of wheels going on. You've got a mini-wheel with your husband in the kitchen. You yelled at your kids, your husband yelled back at you, and then you yell at your husband and then your kids are bad.

So, that's a sansara. People think sansara is like future birth, last birth. No, you're creating...

you're throwing off... there's a word in English, spinning off new companies. Right?

You're spinning off new sansaras every few minutes. That's the point of this. They're not just discussing some stupid little word or something like that.

There's a reason to talk about it. Bigger reason. Okay, yes?

[Speaker 2]
Third kind of suffering?

[Speaker 1]
Ah, dunyak, or... Khyapa duje kyi dunyak. Khyapa duje kyi dunyak.

It is kind of, yeah. You can say that. Okay.

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