«Дар освобождения», курс 8 «Учимся быть тихими», занятие 4

[Говорящий 1] (0:00 - 0:14)
Let's use questions, if you have any questions. If not, we'll just keep going with broomsticks and stuff. Loud, okay?

My question is about meditation. Okay.

[Говорящий 2] (0:16 - 0:44)
For many years I've had problems with trying to, let's say I've been shooting with my mama in meditation and I actually feel like I'm outside of my body watching. And I know it's me, but it's easier for me to watch the scene. I'm moving versus getting my mind inside the me that's out there watching with my mama.

I've tried for years and I don't know if that's, I don't think it's wrong.

[Говорящий 1] (0:46 - 1:30)
So someone has, when she tries to meditate on her mama, she tends to see herself as up behind the scene and watching herself in front of her mama rather than being herself in front of her mama. I don't think it's a problem. I think it's okay.

Honestly, I think it's okay. I don't think it's a problem. If it makes you feel better, you could think that you are the Mahamudra watching your mind.

You know what I mean? Because I think that's very healthy practice when you're trying to meditate, that you take a little piece of your mind and you step back with a piece of your mind and you watch your mind meditating. That's standard practice.

So I don't see it's much different than that.

[Говорящий 2] (1:31 - 1:33)
I'm not seeing entirely what you're trying to do.

[Говорящий 1] (1:34 - 1:35)
Say again?

[Говорящий 2] (1:35 - 1:37)
You're working on meditation inside.

[Говорящий 1] (1:38 - 2:18)
Yeah, I don't see a problem. I think it's okay. A lot of times you have to do what's more natural for you.

Meditation is a very personal thing, like yoga. When I first started yoga, I thought everybody should do a shtanga. Then I stopped doing a shtanga.

I mean, everyone's different. I think you have to experiment with different approaches to meditation and the time that you meditate and what kind of seat you use and which kinds of meditations are better for you. I think it's very personal.

Yes, ma'am?

[Говорящий 2] (2:18 - 2:29)
All of the examples that Rinpoche has given have been in relation to the nominal sangha. I'm just wondering, is it possible to actually split a full sangha?

[Говорящий 1] (2:30 - 4:28)
That's a good question. So, Bonnie said, all the examples that we have so far of splitting the sangha are of splitting the apparent sangha, which is just monks or other people. They haven't spoken about splitting up groups of Aryas.

Or an Arya? An Arya? I guess disrespecting or speaking, what do you call it?

Dissing a single Arya would be a schism in the sangha. Or at least disrespecting the sangha. Worse than disrespecting.

Denigrating or whatever. No, they don't say. But there are in other scriptures, in the Abhidharma they talk about the karma of doing anything to an Arya, negative or positive.

And those are really, really serious. But he doesn't talk about them here. They talk about it in the Abhidharma.

That's one of the reasons why Aryas aren't supposed to make announcements that they're Aryas, except to their own close students or something like that. Because people wouldn't believe it. And they would disrespect it.

And they would say something like, who are you to say that? And then they would collect really bad karma. So normally it's been traditional throughout the history of Buddhism that people who've seen emptiness directly don't talk about it much.

Because if someone expressed, what do you call it? Disbelief of them, then that person would make really bad karma. Yes, Jay?

Yes?

[Говорящий 2] (4:31 - 4:51)
So if the path seems to be important, by some skillful means, or maybe a good direction, then you should help someone that might be having a crisis of faith, that the person can work away from that.

[Говорящий 1] (4:55 - 7:21)
Yeah. Yeah, that's a good question. Jeff is saying, let's say you know someone who's having a doubt about the path or who's in a disagreement with someone who's two people having a disagreement in the path.

And is it always the case that you simply avoid them, both or the one person? Because you don't want to get involved with the karma of splitting up the sangha. You don't want to be on either side.

Or is there a time and a place when it would be appropriate to sit down and talk to them and try to help them out of it? I think there is a time and place to try to sit down and help talk them out of it. And I think it would be kind to do so.

When you reach a... I think there's a turning point where the, what do you call it, fulcrum? The thing turns, where they start to get argumentative or defensive, or they start arguing or attacking.

Then I think you draw back and you avoid them. But as long as it's... As far as it is peaceful and they're open and they want to listen and you can try to reason with them, then I think that's better.

And you shouldn't just... It's easy to just avoid everyone who's having a doubt, right? But that's not the kindest thing to do.

I think it is kinder to watch for an appropriate time when they might be open to talking about it and they might be able to work out, help them work out their doubts, would be the kindest thing. But then I think you have to be super sensitive to the point where they become, they're not going to change or they're going to keep having doubts forever. There's people like that too, just drive you crazy.

You talk to them and they get in a pretty good place and then a week later it's the same thing again. If it gets to be where they would disrespect the teachings, then you back off. Or where they would start arguing like that, then you back off.

Yes.

[Говорящий 2] (7:26 - 7:44)
Yeah. Loud. Okay, I want to talk about this topic first.

You talked about it yesterday, about the dedication, about increasing and decreasing the...

[Говорящий 1] (7:44 - 7:46)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, good.

[Говорящий 2] (7:48 - 7:58)
Even make sure that when I'm speaking to someone, this is the way of... You know, just hearing all of those people's minds.

[Говорящий 1] (7:59 - 21:43)
Yeah, good. Okay, let's talk about that. Ronit, right?

So Ronit's question is this. Yesterday we were talking about when you, let's say that we had a Chinese teacher who came from China and he came to Diamond Mountain and we asked him to teach and he taught. We wanted to be proper so we offered lots of gifts to him before.

Then he was kind of upset. He said, you guys just ruined so much of my good karma. You guys just used up so much of my good karma.

He was very serious. We felt bad. Ronit is saying, for example, if I meet a poor person and I give them some financial help, I will collect more good seeds and I will have more financial independence in the future.

But by giving something to them, am I not using up their good karma? Am I not helping them use up seeds? But then she had a deeper question.

So there are four ways that karma ripens and we should talk about them. I love them. They're very important.

Earth-shaking. Implications. The four ways that karma ripens.

We covered a lot during the DCI programs. You'd be amazed at how the people, normal people in the world, especially business people, are so intelligent. They get all this stuff right away.

Especially the business people. Business people are not spiritual, not because they don't want to be spiritual, but because nothing they ever heard made sense. When they hear something that makes sense, they're really happy.

Then they say, I can be spiritual and a business person. You know what I mean? Anyway, here are the four.

We have tried to find short names for them. So we call them the four flowers, meaning the four ways that karma opens. In general, you should understand that just before you see emptiness directly, you will be able to see how your mind created the yelling boss.

It's not a theory thing. It's not like you say, oh, the boss is yelling at me. I must have yelled last week.

You see what I mean? That's logic. That's what Nyingpo is teaching Wednesday.

That's an important Buddhist skill. I must have yelled at someone last week if the boss is yelling at me today. That's logic.

But as you advance in your meditation and your practice, and when you get to the jor lam chod chok, highest part of the second path, you will be able to observe a karmic seed ripening in your own mind. What does it feel like? I always give the example of a pot on the stove.

You will be looking at a pot on the stove and the conditions are important. The context is important. You're making tea for your Lama.

That's part of the story that is important. You're making tea for your Lama and you're standing there waiting for the water to boil and you're watching it so it's not going to boil. Then suddenly you realize that you're looking at a small luminous image.

I'm going to sneeze, sorry. I'm not doing pranayama. Then you realize you are watching an image coming out of your own mind.

At some point in your practice, due to your good karma, you're able to observe how a seed opens in your own mind. A seed opens and an image comes out. Of course it's mental so it doesn't have a measurement, physical measurement, but it feels like about this big.

It feels like it's in the back of your mind. Kinesthetic misperception. It's some dance thing.

Misperception kinesthetically. What's that kind of dance theory? I forget.

It was popular like 50, 60 years ago. But anyway, it feels like your arm is straight but it's like this. In this case, it feels like the pot is in your head and it's a little image like this big.

You can observe it come out of the seed. That's how karma opens. It's very interesting.

Then you mistake that for an outside pot. You're always living like that. That picture is overlaid over some random jumble of silver and circular.

That's how you perceive everything. Why are we talking about that? It really bugs me.

I'm trying to remember that. Alexander technique. Yeah, yeah.

Okay. Yeah, some kind of mis... Yeah.

Misperception of what your body looks like as you're dancing. You think it's straight but it's not. It's like when people do Vira 2 and they're like this.

So anyway, here are four ways in which those seeds open. Here are the four ways in which they open. It's a very beautiful teaching and it's very helpful for intelligent people who are really curious about seeds, like business people.

They could be in China and they don't care about Buddhism. They like the theory and it sounds cool to them. They're like, tell me, how does it open exactly?

You say, okay, number one. It opens as a similar experience in the near future. Meaning in this lifetime.

So, I prefer to give positive examples. The scripture is always negative. If you lie, people will lie to you.

You know what I mean? Someone will lie to you. I prefer to say, if you are generous, then money will come to you.

Somehow the money will come back to you. If you are generous, money will come back to you. That's the first one.

It's called Gitumba, I think. Second one is, these are very, very profound and you can spend many days meditating on this. The second one is the habit of doing that thing.

So, being generous is difficult. I always think, I think of number two, I think of my mom. I think of lying to your mom.

We don't lie to our mothers until we are teenagers. I mean mostly. Then they are like, where were you last night?

Then you don't want to get grounded. You were out with your girlfriend. You say, mom, my car, the tire.

She is like, you are such a lousy liar. You are lying, aren't you? You are like, yeah, I'm lying.

You are not even smart enough to tell her you are not lying. Then the second, third, fourth time, it gets easier and you get smoother. Where were you last night?

Oh, come on mom, you know I would never come home late. Come on, I mean, look at the tire. The night before, you messed up the tire somehow.

You are like, look at the tire. You learn to lie. You get the habit of lying.

So number two, karmic flowering number two, is that every time you do something, you get better at it. And you get a habit of doing it, positive or negative. In the example of financial independence, it's unnatural when you are broke to give away money.

It's totally unnatural. It's the last thing you would want to do. You always tighten up when you are having financial problems.

You tighten up. Then you go to a long, long course and someone talks you into believing that money comes from generosity. The first time you do it, it's hard.

I'm broke. I got 60 bucks left to my name. If you count all the credit cards in the bank, I'm like 60, plus 60 or minus 60.

They say to make money, if I want to become financially independent, I have to share what I have. So I will give 20, I will give 30. You are like this.

You give 20 and you are like, damn, I hope that wasn't a crazy Buddhist idea. Then the first time it's really hard. Then some windfall comes.

Somebody pays you back a loan that you... It happened to me the other day. Somebody came up and said, you are going to Singapore, right?

They said, yeah. They said, here is the $800 that you asked me to change last year and I forgot, from Singapore money. I'm like, yeah, that's cool.

So like that. Just something will come. Something you don't expect will come.

The second way that a karma... By the way, try to keep in mind that we are talking about one karmic seed ripening four ways. It's ripening four ways.

One seed will ripen in four ways, simultaneously in a way. That's really cool to remember. One seed will ripen in four ways.

So the first way is that you will get back whatever you did pretty soon. Number two is, you will start to develop a habit. A habit is not a psychological thing.

It's more seeds splitting in the subconscious, multiplying in the subconscious. And you gain a habit of the thing. The first time you give someone money because you're broke, it's hard.

The second time is easier. The third time it becomes natural. It's unnatural now.

Flower number three. We could call it environmental flowering. Your world and the people around you will change.

People will become more generous around you. You will live in a world where everyone has enough to live on. If you are truly generous with knowledge, with training, then the country you live in will change.

The economy will change. People will have more money. People will be better off.

It will change. I don't know. In my lifetime, I've seen India, for example.

When I first went to India, I saw a man eating grass. He was on his hands and knees and he was eating grass because he had nothing else to eat. And now India is doing pretty well.

So in my lifetime, I've seen that happen. There wasn't enough food in India. Now there's enough.

Something has happened with the grain and the land and there's enough. Things can change. So that's the environmental result, which is your answer, but we didn't get to it yet.

Then flower number four. Here's a cool way to teach flower number four and you should learn it. If you're a Buddhist and you want to help other people, you should learn to teach it this way.

So listen up. The fourth way that a karmic seed opens is as follows. When you do something, you are collecting seeds at the rate of 65 per second.

I am talking to you about seeds. I just collected 650 seeds. Like that.

I have 650 seeds. They ripen at the same rate. They can only come out of the mind at 65 a second.

Then me and Nyingbo have this big argument going on. I say a really good film, we compromise. What's the, or Osiris would know, what's the frames per second of a really good film?

Good quality.

[Говорящий 2] (21:44 - 21:47)
Twenty-four is the standard per second.

[Говорящий 1] (21:48 - 21:52)
Is there anything higher? Does anybody make something higher? They don't have to.

There's no reason to.

[Говорящий 2] (21:53 - 22:06)
That's the linear persistence. That's how good. Old days, if you went at 60, flowers ripen faster.

They have better motors.

[Говорящий 1] (22:07 - 29:56)
Twenty-four is enough to fool the eye. Sixty-five is really, really good. Then Nyingbo says, Geshe-la, you shouldn't go around telling people 65 is what video is, because it's only 24.

But we compromise, because you have to get in the taste, the sounds, the tactile sensations, the thoughts. So 65 is okay. Yeah, you are having, frames are coming up.

Look at my arm. Watch my arm. It looks like my arm went down, but really it's this.

Your mind is throwing forth 65 arms in different positions, in a flow. It looks like the world is moving, but it's not. It's all like a film.

It's all like frames. Your mind is making still pictures one by one. They're so fast that it looks like you're moving.

So when you do something, you make 65 a second. When you experience something, you're using up 65 a second. But every 24 hours, an unused seed in your mind doubles.

Every 24 hours. Forever. If you did something when you were six to your brother, like calling pig for most of his life, then you've got millions of seeds.

I think Nimble worked it out. It's a million a month or something. Am I wrong?

In two months? Two million a month. If you do something on the first of the month and it doesn't ripen, it will be two million by the end of the month.

The power will be two million. So it doesn't take a great mathematician like Pavel, who has a formula named after him, he's a very famous mathematician, to figure out that you're going to have excess seeds after a while. Because you can't use them up as fast as they multiply.

So when you reach the end of your life, there are many more seeds than when you were born. You have many more seeds. You have millions upon millions of extra seeds.

The third law of karma says that no seed can be wasted. No seed ever is wasted. All seeds must ripen.

They must ripen. If you come to the end of your life, this physical body, and you have millions of extra seeds, they must ripen. They never disappear.

They never go away. The body can die, but nothing can kill the seed. And they will ripen.

They will open. The body dies. And the seeds that are left over, they start to open one by one.

And they cause a new mind to see a new world. So don't think of rebirth as anything else. I don't think that talking about rebirth is ever useful in a non-Buddhist audience.

It's probably not even useful in a Buddhist audience. But if you can get people logically to this point of understanding that when the body falls apart, you still have millions of seeds left. And they must open.

And they will open. And they will create a new mind. And they will create something for that mind to see.

And that's a new world. And you will go to a new world. What will that new world be like is determined by the karmic habits in this life.

If you were generous consistently in this life, the fourth way in which karma opens is that you will walk into a world which your mind is doing in front of you, which is extremely... what do you call it? Affluent.

You will walk into an affluent country or an affluent world. Your mind will throw that ahead of you because you've been generous. That's the fourth result of karma.

So those are the four. Number one, in this life you will get back what you did. Number two, you will create a habit.

In the case of generosity, get something. Understand something. This is extremely important.

In the case of generosity, flower number two is extremely important. Why? Because you are picking up two habits when you give the money.

What are they? One is the habit of giving money. Okay?

The second one is the understanding what the hell you're doing. You see what I mean? And that's more important.

It's good to learn to give money when you're broke. But what's more important is you're getting into the habit of giving what you need. Giving other people what you need.

And that's more profound. Because then you'll go to, when you want a boyfriend, you'll go to the nursing home. When you have a bad back, you'll teach a yoga class.

You see what I mean? You're breaking your old habit of thinking that you take to get. And you're creating a new habit that says you give to get.

And that's under the other habit. So that's more profound. It's very beautiful.

You can overcome billions of years of conditioning because of the second way that karma ripens. Okay? Just start.

Try. You know what I mean? And it will break.

The habit will break. So anyway, then the third one is that your environment changes. That's where Ronit's question comes in.

If I'm generous to people, isn't one of the karmic results that I will see fewer poor people in my life? So how can you say I'm using up their debit card? She's a big debater.

She's got me in a corner. How can you accuse me of using up their debit card? I'm making them more generous.

The people around me are all going to be more wealthy if I'm generous because flower number three says that. Got it? Now I have to answer it.

The answer is pretty obvious. Anybody want to take a shot? It's a pen actually.

Anybody want to try? Yeah, yeah. I will see them as more prosperous.

They will see themselves as their debit card dropping. Excuse me? They don't have to.

If their intention in taking the help from you is to turn around and help somebody else, they are, by taking it, they are making more credit. Alright, got it? Alright, how are we?

I don't want to be late. I want to go to Elisa Monte's class. It sounds really sexy to me about dance as an offering.

So I'm going to stop on time. Maybe one or two more questions. Yes, please, go ahead.

[Говорящий 2] (29:56 - 29:59)
Could you go over one thing one more time?

[Говорящий 1] (29:59 - 37:57)
Yeah, because the fourth one is extremely important if you're a teacher, if you're teaching other people. You can grab them by the collar and say, you have to believe in future lives, and it doesn't seem to work. Or you can say, they say, somebody asked Lord Buddha, how many seeds do you collect in an instant?

Muhurta. In the old days they didn't have clocks. So Buddha said, let's take the example of a finger snap, which was one of the smallest units of time for normal people in his time.

So he said, let's take in his finger snap, you are collecting 65 seeds. If you smile at somebody for that long, you get 65 smiles back. It's a good deal.

Then they double every 24 hours. Pabongka Rinpoche is going to say it in here. He's going to use the example of crushing an insect which is biting you.

And it doubles. The karma doubles within 24 hours. Every 24 hours the karma doubles.

You only use up seeds at 65. It only takes 65 frames a second to have super good multisensory playback. Multisensory playback only takes 65 frames a second.

You will never use up all the seeds you have. You will always have an excess. Then you come to the end of your life and the body breaks.

The body breaks it down. But the seeds are there. The third law of karma, there's four laws of karma, right?

The third law of karma says a seed cannot be destroyed. It's not possible. No seed is ever destroyed.

Every seed will have its consequence. Nothing you ever said or spoke or thought will ever be lost. All things are recorded and all things are paid back.

Nothing is not paid back. No one can cut you slack. You can't go to some big guy and say, can we just cancel those things I did when I was a teenager?

And they say, no. You experienced them. You can use the four powers and you can minimize what happens.

I think it's a really beautiful way you get somebody to the idea. In this context, it's very, very helpful to give the example of when you turn the page of a book, the words are not coming from the book to your eyes. They are coming from your mind to the paper.

When you turn the, and when you read a line of a book, your mind is throwing down word by word on a blank piece of paper. When you go to see a movie and the guy is about to kiss the girl and you're like, go for it, go for it. And then they're like, whether they get interrupted and never kiss or whether they kiss in the next 30 seconds, that's coming from you.

That's coming from you. Your mind is throwing the movie ahead of you. You see what I mean?

It's like you have a pile of flagstones and you put one down. You're holding all these flagstones and you put one down and you step on it. And then you put down the next one and you step on it.

Okay, Ken Rinpoche, slave work number 93. He walks out the front porch. He looks across at the new driveway that I laid, asphalt, at the new garage that I built.

And he's like, how do I get to it? I have to walk across the lawn. And I'm like, yeah, you have to walk across.

He's like, oh, we need flagstones. So then I have to go buy flagstones. Then we set them down from the house to the garage.

We work hard. We set them all down. And he's like, I like them.

Those are good. Yeah, those are nice. Then he steps out on the first one and it goes like this.

And he says, take them all up. Take them all up. They need sand under them.

So this is life with Rinpoche. Then we put sand under every single one and we even it out and it's okay. And it's like getting dark by now.

He steps out on the first one and he says, that's great, Mike. It doesn't wobble. I'm like, yeah, okay, let's have dinner.

He's like, you know, it's too high. When we mow the lawn, the lawnmower will hit the flagstones. We have to lower it.

Take them all up again. Dig it down. Buy some more sand.

Put more sand. It should be lower. Otherwise the lawnmower will hit it.

And then the next day I'm out there in the sun and I'm like, why the hell? Why is he making me do this over and over again? Put it down.

Step on it. Put down the next one. Step on it.

Over and over and over. And like the third day I'm like, aha, he's trying to teach me. That's the magic that takes place between if you really believe your Lama is enlightened, whether he is or not, you will have these breakthroughs.

And it's worth it, you know, to suffer for three days. I'll never forget. You were throwing down the next moment of your reality and then you're walking into it.

You see what I mean? You didn't walk into this room. You threw down the next yard of the room and then you stepped into it.

When we walked across the room in Elisa Monte's dance class, over and over, you were throwing down the next three feet and then you were stepping into it. Your mind laid down the next three feet of the carpet and then you stepped onto it. And that's what happens when you die.

The same thing happens when you die. You have millions of seeds left over. The last act of this mind is to throw down the next one.

And then you step into it. And you're in a new world. And I don't like to call it a new birth.

Somehow it seems like the birth was there. They're making dog bodies in a factory in Kansas. Spirits are caught, grabbed by a cosmic force and stuffed into dog bodies.

It's not like that. You are throwing the next world in front of you. And then you step into it and you forget where you were.

Because you're a different person. You're another person. It's very interesting.

Why am I talking about that? It's a much more compelling way to teach future lives to a group of Chinese businessmen in Beijing next week. And they buy it.

If you sneak it up on them. You say, are there 65? Yes.

Do you use up 65? Yes. Do they double every day?

Yes. Do you have extra left over when you die? Yes.

Does it throw forth another world? They're like, I guess so. And then you got them.

Then you can talk to them about what's the quality of that world going to be. Let's talk about the quality of the next world. And then you're talking next world already to the Communist Party of Beijing.

Okay. But it's a good way to do it. And it's much more logical, right?

It's more compelling in the context of the four ways that it flowers, the karma flowers. Okay, maybe last question.

[Говорящий 2] (37:57 - 38:01)
In the book, how does yoga work?

[Говорящий 1] (38:02 - 38:04)
I hate it when they quote my own books to me.

[Говорящий 2] (38:06 - 38:19)
When you visit the girl, is she the, let's forget that, maybe that's the captain. You know, the head cop.

[Говорящий 1] (38:19 - 38:20)
Yeah, the captain.

[Говорящий 2] (38:21 - 38:22)
Did she teach him?

[Говорящий 1] (38:24 - 38:25)
In the book, she teaches him.

[Говорящий 2] (38:25 - 38:27)
How is he going to see that?

[Говорящий 1] (38:27 - 38:29)
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Говорящий 2] (38:29 - 38:29)
Okay.

[Говорящий 1] (38:31 - 42:36)
Yeah. This is something I've been working on. I mean, when I teach, if you give a really good weekend seminar in Kiev, and there's just a bunch of new businessmen there, by the third day, they are talking seeds.

Everything that comes out of their mouth is seeds. We were in Vietnam. On the third day, they're all going, and hundreds of people are sitting, I don't know what the heck they're saying, but I said, when they hit their head, what are they saying?

They said seed. Every time you see someone hit their head, they're saying seed. By the third day, they're all talking about seeds.

Everybody gets it. Everybody in the world. Then everybody in the world comes and says, wait a minute, how do I get rid of my old bad seeds?

They get it. The minute you get the thing about good seeds, the next thought in your head is, yes, but when I was 16, oh boy, can you cancel old seeds? That's the first thing people say.

Then we all, on the last day, we always teach the four powers. We say you can destroy the seed, or you can deactivate it. There are three ways to describe what happens with the four powers.

You can say the seed is destroyed, or taken out. You can say the seed is still there, but its power to give a result is stripped away from it. It's deactivated.

Nowadays, I have a bird food that I give my birds. It's called Niger seed. The yellow finches are addicted to it.

They're like meth junkies. You put out Niger seed and you'll have 50 bright little happy yellow birds around all the time. They can't stop it.

They eat it all day long. It's a thistle that grows in India. They don't want it in this country.

They don't want it growing in this country, so they radiate it. All the seeds are radiated before they go to customs. All the packages, thousands of tons of Niger seed are radiated, and they don't grow.

The seed is there. Its nutrition is still there. Its genetic qualities are destroyed.

So, you can say, are you taking out a seed? Or is the seed still there and it cannot grow? Or is it there and you trigger a process by which it grows quickly and in a very minor way?

Technically, I think you have to say the third. When you're teaching people, it's probably easier at the beginning to say, let's get rid of the seed you made when you were 16, rather than give them the Niger seed story. You know what I mean?

So, it's probably better to... I think when you're teaching, you sell it as a way to destroy your seeds. When they've been around for a while, you say, actually you're not destroying them, you're disabling them.

When they've been around for a really long time, you tell them what the Buddha said in the Diamond Cutter Sutra, which is that you're actually just triggering them to explode prematurely. They open too early. And it's just a little wimpy.

The Buddha in the Diamond Cutter Sutra says, if you collected the karma to die from cancer and you used it for powers, that seed will open the next day or shortly afterwards as a migraine, headache. So technically that's what's happening. But when you teach it, you shift to the level of the audience.

They want to hear that it's gone. It's not really gone, it does open, but like a zillionth of the percent of what it would have been.

[Говорящий 2] (42:36 - 42:37)
Okay, I like that.

[Говорящий 1] (42:38 - 43:04)
HEG CHU. BU. God bless.

Let's stop there. Then we have some extra rest time before Elisa's talk. Okay, thanks.

Thanks for coming to this retreat. And thanks for asking. You are the hardcore people and it's a pleasure to be with you.

So thank you. Somebody asking good questions.