Серия ежедневной практики, курс 08 — Сутра сердца: медитация на пустоту (1998, Годстоу), занятие 10

[Speaker 2]
Session 9 Okay, so please get ready to meditate.

[Speaker 1]
Watch your breath. Then imagine that you're looking from the left side to the right side of this room and move your eyes slowly from the left side to the right side in your mind and just be aware of what you see, the colors and the shapes, different objects. Then go to step number two and try to analyze where they came from, where these things came from.

What's making them be there? And get in touch with your old feeling about it, your old feeling that you've had your whole life, is that those things exist out there, away from you, that they have some existence from their own side, that that's what real means, that you walk into the room and the room has been there and it exists outside of you and that each object that you see has its own qualities and if you think about it, that's why you're getting disagreements with other people about whether something is good or not.

In your heart you believe that that thing is one way or the other from its own side and maybe the other person doesn't know enough or maybe they're blind or maybe they don't understand but they don't see what you see and what you see is really there in the object. So try to reconstruct that way of looking at things. Get in touch with the way you've always looked at things.

You think they exist out there in the way you see them and you think that's reality. Pretend you didn't hear anything about emptiness. We're trying to reconstruct your ignorance.

We're trying to see how ignorance sees things. Then move on to the middle way view, number three, and try to start looking at the things around you as if they were a direct result of whatever good things or bad things you yourself have done. So as you look around the room and you see a friend, you think this person exists in my life.

I can see them only because I was good to someone in the past and that's what's making me see them. And if you see something you don't like so much, then reflect on how it's coming from something negative you thought or something that you did in the past. And now you know enough to understand that it's not voodoo and it's not that person wasn't created in a bad person factory and sent here to bother you.

It's your own mind forcing you to interpret colors and shapes in a certain way. And each person in the room is having a different interpretation. And it's not a matter of choice.

It's forced on them by their karma. And so some people in the room really do see a lot of maybe irritating people and some people in the room see a room full of wonderful beings. And now look at the room that way.

Now the last step. Go through the room like Sherlock Holmes. And you're like, what's that guy's name?

I remember she really likes him. The funny detective.

[Speaker 2]
Columbo.

[Speaker 1]
Columbo, yeah. He dies for Columbo reruns. And go through the room and try to find, go through different objects.

You know, you can go through different, you can check the flowers, check the altar, check the roof, check the floor, check the other people here. Try to find something that's not there because of your own mind synthesizing it in a certain way. Try to find something, you know, be like a fly that goes from object to object.

And when you land on a new object and check it, check how you feel about it. And then try to see if the way that object is is coming from you. Try to find one that's coming from its own side.

The idea here is that you don't find anything. And at the end you just throw up your arms, you know, and you say, it's empty, there's nothing in this room that is not coming from my mind. And then you reach emptiness.

This is a way of reaching emptiness. So go through the room, pick object by object, things you like, things you don't like. Try to find one that your mind is not responsible for.

At a certain point, if you reach nothing, if you decide there's nothing in this room like that, then set your mind on that. That's called jogam. So we're moving from cegom to jogam.

Cegom is an analysis of Columbo walking around the room and checking each thing. And then when you're satisfied, when you've checked enough things, put your mind on the emptiness of that. Meaning, put your mind on the fact and let it rest there.

Decide that there's nothing in this room that's not coming from your past actions and your past words and your past thoughts. And set your mind there and rest there and focus on it. If your mind wanders, if you hear a car or you hear someone shift, then be Columbo and go check that object.

And then come back to fixing your mind on emptiness. Again, don't let your mind get spaced out. When you get distracted, look at that object.

Check if it's coming from your mind, if it makes sense. And then decide it. It doesn't come from its own side and let it go and leave it.

And then focus on the fact that there is nothing like that. And use each distraction to check another object and then bring your mind back to the fact that there is nothing that's coming from its own side. And then stay there and come out of that meditation.

Okay, then relax. Okay, we'll just do like ten minutes of sutra, just for good luck. Page six, and it's the fourth line.

This is Avalokiteshvara wrapping up. And it's called Dorjeepa. And this is the last word that he speaks in the sutra.

And he says, ,,sharipu chandru semba semba chenpo shiragyi paro chenpo samalla, ,,detar lapar chavo," And it's exactly what we just meditated on. He's saying that's how you should practice trying to see emptiness. And that's a really good meditation, what we just did.

We'll do it again in the afternoon. But you need an emptiness meditation, that's it. And that's exactly how it should go.

It's very important to realize that number two is false. You're trying to review how you used to see things wrong. So don't practice it too hard.

You're going over the way that you used to look at things. And you still have it. Even as I talk, as you look at me, you're having it.

And I'm having it with you. I see you out there. I believe you're out there.

If I feel good or bad about you, I'm trying to do self-existent methods to make you change. And they will never work. And so I'm unhappy and I get mental afflictions.

And then I do something bad and I create more of the same. And that's the wheel of life. That's how it works.

That's what the meaning of the Twelve Links is. So then number three is dependent origination. It's understanding that each object, how I feel about it, and the way I see it, is determined by imprints that were made in my mind in the past.

And they are exerting themselves. I have people say, I don't believe in these imprints. It sounds kind of weird.

I say, did your mother send you to first grade? And they say, yes. And then I say, why?

And they say, she wanted me to learn something. And I say, I remember what I learned in the first grade. Where did you learn in the first grade?

I learned addition. And I remember Mrs. Melvin teaching us how to draw the letters ABC. And your parents send you there with the intention of, Mrs. Melvin, putting an imprint in your mind that will carry through at least to freshman year of high school. When everybody drops out. So don't tell me Americans don't accept the idea of imprints. A teacher in first grade is judged on how well they can put the imprint in your mind.

And of course you want it to carry on until you reach your business days in New York, in your 30s and 40s, so you can use all that algebra that they taught you. But anyway, we believe in that. And everything you experience is a result of those imprints ripening.

So it becomes the art of creating good imprints. Detar Lapa Jao. That's how you should practice.

Understand that these things are coming from your mind. And then get good at the art of making imprints. If you want a shortcut, study the Bodhisattva Vows and the Pratimoksha Vows and get a short list from an enlightened being about, hey, this is the best way to make good imprints.

And then check them every hour or two hours. And that's the whole point of Tundruk, if you're studying Tundruk. That's the whole point.

That's the meaning of it. If you want to speed things up, take a proper Tantric initiation, get proper teachings on those initiations, and then take those vows and keep those vows and keep those practices. And then those imprints are designed to flower within one lifetime.

They're specially designed to create their effect before you die. Okay. DE NAS BYONG DEN TE, TING YIN ZIN DE LAS ZHENG DE, BYANG DU SEMS PA SEMS PA CHEN PO, PHA PA CHEN PA'I ZING WANG CHU LA LEGS SO.

DE NAS BYONG DEN TE, TING YIN ZIN DE LAS ZHENG DE means then the Buddha came out of his meditation. And Choney Lama says, TING YIN ZIN DE LAS ZHENG PAS TSUL DEN TE. TSUL DEN means he pretended to come out of his meditation.

All right. You know, he's like, ah, you know. And he's been running the show with these two puppets.

And then he pretends to come out of meditation. Okay. Then he says, CHEN MI ZING WANG CHU LA.

Then he says to Avalokiteshvara, LEGS SO, LEGS SO, RIG PUR DE DE BZHIN NO, RIG PUR DE DE BZHIN TE. And it says here, LEGS SO ZHES BYANG BA CHEN NAS LEGS SO LEGS SO. Okay.

There's this big debate in Buddhist literature. In Buddhist writing, as well as in any other kind of writing, it's considered a fault of writing, a grammatical error, to repeat something unnecessarily. Okay.

If you sent that manuscript to Snow Lion, they'd probably cut it out, I think. You know, why does the Buddha have to say, right on, right on, right on? You know, I mean, can't he just say it once?

LEGS SO means right on. Perfect. Okay.

And he repeats it three times. There's always debates in the monastery. Why did he say it?

First he says LEGS SO, and then he says LEGS SO LEGS SO. So here's Choney Lama's take on it. The first LEGS SO means GYUR GYI DE LTAR BSTAN PA DE LEGS PAR BSTAN PA'I LEGS SO The teaching you have just given us is good, and so I say, right on.

It's good. LEGS SO So the first one is, the teaching you just gave is good. ZHES BYANG BA CHEN TE means he gives his blessing.

Okay. To Avalokiteshvara. LEGS SO LEGS SO GNYIS SUM PA NI Now why does he say two more LEGS SOs, Choney Lama?

SHIN DU LEGS PAR BSTAN PA LA THUG DGE BZHIN SHIN DU LEGS PAR means it's for emphasis. It's really good. That was really, really good, what you taught.

BSTAN PA LA THUG DGE means, and it makes my heart happy. THUG DGE means it has pleased the enlightened being. I'm pleased that you have spoken like that.

And then, ZHES NYIS CHES SU ZHUG PA'I DUN DU LHAG PA NEN PO NEN PO And, why does he add the extra LEGS SO at the very end? It's really the third one now, right? He says, ZHES NYIS CHES SU ZHUG PA'I DUN ZHES NYIS CHES SU ZHUG PA'I DUN Remember there's all these disciples sitting and listening to this conversation.

And, he wants to make a strong point to all of those disciples that they can trust what Avalokiteśvara has said. So, the second LEGS SO is, this was, you taught it well, first one. I'm pleased that you taught it well, it was good.

And then the third one is, hey you guys, this is really good and you should follow it. You can trust it. It's as good as if I taught it myself.

You know, that's the last LEGS SO. Okay. All right.

And then we'll save a few lines for the next class, okay?

[Speaker 2]
ZHES NYIS CHES SU ZHUG PA'I DUN ZHES NYIS CHES SU ZHUG PA'I DUN This is the end of Session 9. Session 10.

[Speaker 1]
SERANDEN MESHARATATHI BUDDHA Okay, CHAM LDAN DE'I KYE means by the Buddha This time it's the Buddha, the one Buddha DE'I KYE CHE KHA means now the Buddha has given his word and as I said at the beginning you have here all three versions of the Buddha's speech you have what we call JESUN NANGWAI KHA which means the Buddha gave permission JESUN NANGWA means permission that people could say at the beginning of these sutras I heard this one time that becomes part of the sutra it's not the word of a Buddha but to be a sutra you have to be the word of the Buddha so we classify it as the word of the Buddha by virtue that the Buddha said it's okay to add that so we consider it the word of the Buddha the words thus did I hear one time become canon they become the Buddha's word then you have the second kind JINGGYI LAPA'I KHA means under the influence of the Buddha's power other people are speaking the whole sutra is spoken by a person who in the sutra system is not a Buddha but it becomes the speech of the Buddha by virtue that he's controlling these two people it's his mind controlling what they say so we also call that the speech of the Buddha now you have here in the final lines CHOM DEN DE'I KYI DE'I KHE'I CHI KHA TSE NE KHA TSE NE KHA means it's the KHA in KANGYUR for example meaning the word of the Buddha and now you've got the real SHE NE SUM PE KHA the Buddha's own from his own lips come in some kind of speech and he doesn't say much he just says great, great, great that's the way it is that's the way it is and that's all he gets to say his part is very small and and that's called SHE NE SUM PE KHA by the way the JIN GYI LA PE KHA is very powerful and the Buddha doesn't restrict it to people like CHEN RE ZEG AVO LO KHYETE SHVARA the sound of trees the wind in the trees the sound of the ocean waves crashing you know if you're at the seashore we have this little stream if you ever stay in this room it's really nice all these ions coming off and it makes this beautiful singing this stream outside here and it is taught in scripture in the Perfection of Wisdom scriptures that the Buddha can express the Dharma that way and that's another version of JIN GYI LA PE KHA so the same powers that move AVO LO KHYETE SHVARA and SHARI PUTRA to have this conversation can also cause the sound of trees or bushes or beep beeps in New York if you listen carefully and if you you know if you're keeping your vowels carefully then they can be great teachings and that is the word of the Buddha ok DIGI KHA TSE ONYE TSE NA NAMAH SHARI PUR some of the additions here say SHARATVATI PUR and I always was like why they suddenly change his name from SHARI PUR to SHARATVATI PUR and Tony Lama loves that kind of stuff and I like it too and he says some people say that oh by the way some additions say SHARATVATI PUR and throughout here you'll see it go between SHARI PUR and SHARATVATI PUR he says SHARATVATI means SHARADA he says means a teacher VAT means to possess something like Bhagavat, Bhagavan is another version of that so SHARATVAT means the woman who possesses teaching and that seems to be a synonym for his mother SHARIKA or SHARATVATI are the same thing so it's not a mistake or something like that it's another version of her name apparently ok they start a big party and everybody they start to celebrate this the occurrence of this sutra and not just the people listening but at any teaching we believe there are other kinds of beings that we can't see who are aware of what's going on here enlightened beings and also worldly beings that we just not it's like different colors off the wavelength and we can't see them but they're here so at the very end this big party starts to break out and celebration ok all these beings and all the people there and all the beings listening and the Buddha himself and the two main disciples start to like celebrate what's happened and I'm going to leave those lines and not translate them because it's like a it's considered auspicious that if we leave something undone we have to get together again and do another one anybody have any questions especially about the meditation because I want you to get it right because you have to go home and work on it you know everybody is always asking for an emptiness meditation and now you have one so make sure it's straight in your mind and don't be shy to ask questions and I would also encourage you I'm going to be gone for a couple maybe three weeks we don't have classes till I think May May 19th or something like that so I think you could maybe get a hold of some of the tapes from this and I think Aura is good at that and you could try to reach her Aura sorry and Kevin really loves to make the videos by the way we're really having trouble I mean there's a lot of people who want videos and he's staying up all night and doing them at home because it's too expensive to do it outside so if you can help talk to Kevin or talk to Aura or John and if you just had two at home you can do some and then we don't want to charge people so it costs like $250 a set if you do it outside so if you can help with that talk to Aura or talk to Kevin that would help the people who couldn't come yeah the four part meditation that you mentioned yesterday

[Speaker 2]
where you see things as simple as them and then you see things as concretely existing radiating their identity to you and then you see things as

[Speaker 1]
where you're taking data into your mind and organizing it into whatever you're perceiving due to your past karma and the fourth step you said quickly pull the rug out from under that can you elaborate on what that means?

yeah, quickly pull the rug out it's called turdel turdel is a special version of emptiness and by the way when you talk about a bodhisattva vow of not teaching people emptiness who are not ready to get the full thing it's mostly that one it's called turdel and turdel is where you quickly go into the point that we stayed on gently this morning and where you quickly remove everything and concentrate on what's left and that can be a little disconcerting and it's very abused and it's not taught properly and people try to do it and they feel weird and they feel disoriented or something like that it's not at all like that it's more like what we did this morning so the danger sign is if you feel anything weird or something like that it's got nothing to do with emptiness and just stop it and don't do that also very important to you can say there's four steps but there's really five, right?

you got to do tonglen first you have to do some compassion first then the odds of anything weird happening are very low, you know, if you're doing it for the right reason and you just got finished with thinking about helping someone who's in the hospital you're not going to go into some Nietzschean space, right? you know is it Nietzsche? so, you know, it's not going to happen and that's better pull the rug out, you can pull the rug out on number two or number three the classic way is number two, right?

I mean, the classic way is if I cancelled it's a gaccha number two is the gaccha gaccha means the thing we think is not there it's the thing that emptiness is empty of it's the thing that emptiness is absent of it's the thing which is absent in reality that you always thought was there it's the two-headed 15-foot purple elephant, okay? it never existed, never will exist a world out there which is looking at me and all the feelings I have for each person here that those are coming from some quality of you and not being laid on you by my mind, imposed by my mind that's a gaccha that doesn't exist there's no such audience like that there's no such building like that and you have to get used to that pull the rug out means get your mind on the world the way you used to think of it you're out there the people I like here I like because there's something likable in them and the people I don't like I don't like because there's something that's not likable in them and it's not coming from me I'm not responsible for all the irritating people I meet and then just suddenly blow that away and see what's left and there won't be anything left you see that's one way to get to emptiness okay it's like going through a barrel and hitting the bottom it's called thani thakpe thakten sa vetsena manye thani thakpe thakten sa vetsena means you try to find a person in this room who could be good or bad from their side and not due to my own perceptions and if I go through the room and start over here and get over to that side I'll hit bottom and I'll realize there wasn't any and there never were any and that's emptiness and the place you reach at the end of that analysis is emptiness you can also do it by pulling the rug out of number three okay, number three is true things really do exist because my mind is making them happen and then you can decide okay, let's do a Columbo thing we'll do that Columbo interview the way he used to interview people you know, I I know you didn't kill the guy and I'm not saying anything I'm just wondering why that dirt's on your shoes and so go around to each one you know, and pick three or four objects and go to each one and say and investigate them do detective work and say, did this thing I don't like this person okay, and I have invested interest here because I don't want to be around people I don't like, now I can either try to run away from them, which you did in your life and you can't, because there's always one where you reach people used to come to me at my office and say, I'm leaving this place, and I'd say, why? and they'd say, I don't like so-and-so who's my supervisor, so I'd say are you aware that you'll probably meet another supervisor where you're going you know, and they'll be probably just the same and actually that's true because your karma doesn't wear out by moving, you see not all the time, sometimes it does but it's the same thing you can just run away from those people and you can't, but that's not the way to get rid of the people that you don't like if you are if you stop collecting bad karma towards them, if you stop thinking badly of them because you know that's what's maintaining them slowly Master Shantideva says very profoundly you can kiss them all goodbye there's a verse in the chapter on patience where he says go to the people you don't like and say your fond farewells because if you follow my book they'll start to drop out of your life you know, either they'll move they'll be promoted or they'll most often change into someone you like if you refuse to collect bad karma towards them, if you refuse to think badly of them, if you refuse to gossip about them they will actually change it's wearing shoes instead of covering the world with leather right and you can do it and it works so go around the room find a person that you I mean the people you don't like are probably the best because you're always wondering why me you know, so work on the people who irritate you or the people that challenge you and examine them whether they exist from their side or not and see that they don't okay see that any person in this room is the way they are because of your mind and again, not externally but because the impressions are going off in your own mind where they were planted in the first place then suddenly say okay, what if that was let me remove all the dependently originating people from this room okay, I'll take out of this room please leave get up and leave anyone who's a creation of my karma okay and everyone gets out of the room and then you're looking around and saying that's emptiness, you see that's another way to get at emptiness you see, you can either pull the rug out on number two or the things which never were there you know, everyone who's in this room who's self-existent comes from their own side and is an asshole from their side please get up and leave the room you know and then there won't be anything there nobody will get up because there's no such thing if you don't like somebody then straighten out your vows and keep your book more seriously you know but you can also do it through number three which is anyone who's not a projection of my karma please leave the room and then close your eyes, wait till all the hustle and bustle is finished and open your eyes and see how many people are there and there won't be anybody and that is a kind of emptiness this is a way to establish this is a way to establish emptiness and then keep your mind focused on that and that's a very sweet, that's called Jogam the classic progression is from Chagom to Jogam Chagom means Colombo it means analytical meditation Jogam means you open your eyes and there's nobody there and you focus on that for 10, 20, 30 minutes and keep your mind on that and that's the one that turns into the direct perception of emptiness

[Speaker 2]
so if I'm sitting here looking at a flower and going okay my senses are taking in this data and my mind is

[Speaker 1]
configuring it into colors and shapes in the flower and smells, etc, etc and I'm sitting here kind of watching my mind just configuring everything into whatever I'm perceiving it at then at the point at which I pull the rug out and stop that do I just stop conceptualizing at that point? Do I just sit there with no concepts? When we say pull the rug out of number 3, right?

Is it that you try to stop your mind from doing it? No. It's not like you're staring at a flower and you're trying not to see it as a flower you see what I mean?

By the way, that's a useless exercise as useless as going to work and looking at the person who irritates you and wishing they weren't there you know it's as useless as going to a church and getting down on your knees and praying that Aunt Joni didn't have cancer you see? It's not going to change from that those things are real because they are forced on you by your past karma you can't stop them that way wishing doesn't stop them, you know that by now it's shutting off the valve at the bottom of the fountain and then eventually it stops at the top you stop doing negative actions you stop thinking negatively about other people the whole crux is when bad things happen to you that's where you break the wheel of life, link number 1 you want to get out of here? that's the moment when someone says something to you or somebody does something to you or something bad happens in your life that's the moment that's the Buddhist golden opportunity that's where you can break the link number 1 if you don't respond negatively you just took a step forward you just stopped one more day of samsara and if you keep doing that then sooner or later it turns into a Buddha but those are the golden moments those are the moments you should be waiting for somebody says something to you something goes wrong and it starts to come up in your heart and you say, wait a minute I'm tired of all this it's okay I'm not going to collect new bad karma I'm not going to see this happen again you just cool it so the point is not to when somebody bad comes up to you that you're trying to dissolve them or something like that no, because you can't and you can try it but you can't do it and that's a wrong teaching on emptiness you can't, it's being forced on you by your past karma you don't have a choice so it's not like you can dissolve it you can't dissolve it I don't mean that when I say pull out the rug I mean pretend that wasn't the case well then who would be left in the room that's all pretend there were no dependently originating people in this room pretend there were no traffic jams that were created by my blocking other people in the past then what would be left

[Speaker 2]
you see

[Speaker 1]
and then you can look around the room and say, well the room would still be here and then you analyze the room and say, oh wait a minute I also created God still and you say, well wait a minute the highway would be here and you say, wait, wait, wait, no, no, no I created that too sooner or later you run out of stuff to examine and then that's then you reach emptiness and then hold your mind on it hold your mind there that's what I mean, pull out the rug it doesn't mean to try to stop doing that it doesn't mean that, because you can't

[Speaker 2]
so if I'm sitting here taking this data and washing my mind organizing it into something you could do that endlessly

[Speaker 1]
that's number three

[Speaker 2]
yeah, you do that endlessly, endlessly, endlessly and what is that sort of focal point which you shift how do you get into that point where you stop washing your mind organized into what you're focusing on, which is what isn't there that's what I don't understand, how do you go from the end of conceptualizing stuff into where are the next things

[Speaker 1]
maybe the question is like this, suppose I I'm in number three, I'm in meditation number three, and I'm looking around the room and I'm saying, I like this person a lot I kind of like this person this person I don't know very well this person bothers me you know, and I'm looking at each person and I'm thinking you know, it's coming from me okay, and I finish doing that, and I say okay, now I want to go to emptiness the negative side of things, you know, I want to see the emptiness of all these things so then you think okay what if I wasn't projecting anything here you know, how many of the things in this room would still be here if I stopped projecting and then you'll start to see nothing then there'll be nothing there, by the way this might be your question, in joy lung, in path number two during the intellectual the attempt to understand emptiness intellectually when you come to a kind of emptiness, in number four and when you do this meditation in number four, you are projecting emptiness okay, during Jigtsu Gitappa means, you're still using a mental image to pretend there's nothing here that's dependent on the origination, okay and we say that you're still using conceptualization to do that, that is a projection too, which by the way means that's a result of virtue, right you will never be able to do it, unless you do some heavy virtue, you see because that's the ability to get to number four properly is a result of very, very serious virtue and then, some people will never get to number four, they won't do it right they won't be able to do it right or they won't get it and that's because they don't have enough virtue before you study emptiness in a Tibetan Buddhist monastery, before you get to that class, which is the twelfth year of your studies you are encouraged to go on retreat and try to collect some heavy virtue, and I tell you, you know it's good it came up, because you'll never see this stuff, if you don't do some heavy virtue, never you know, and you have to do some heavy virtue, serve the Dharma in some way, you know classically serving that teacher and I don't like to say that, because then you know, I get all these flowers and stuff but I'm not saying that I'm not talking about me as a person I'm talking about the idea of the Dharma these teachings, this knowledge this benefit to people and I don't care if it's this center or some other center or some other people, it doesn't matter, it really doesn't matter the teaching is one thing but serve it you know, do something to help it to the best of your capacity, and make it serious, you know what I mean I'll take the blackboard to class when I feel like it, it's not going to do it, okay it's not like that you really have to put your heart into it and it doesn't have to be this center, it doesn't have to be me, it shouldn't be the Dharma this knowledge and wherever you are, wherever you live, whoever it may be that's the most powerful virtue, and if you really need to do that, frankly and it has to be on the level of some serious contribution to the success of that thing and that virtue helps you see emptiness and helping to publish these things or spread these things it takes something like that to get to number four successfully, because it's a projection and those are created by your past karma, you see the day you see emptiness directly it's not exactly a projection like that, it's a little bit different kind of projection it does not involve a Dunchy in that way but that's a difficult that's a little difficult subject yeah, did you have a question? yeah, it's a good question when you go from two to three your number three is an alternative to number two, which is false number two is false and if number two wasn't around, well how do things really happen? and that's number three so in that sense, number three is the opposite of number two number two is false, number three is true number two is a wrong idea about the way things work, and number three is a right idea about the way things work and number four is an idea that if that wasn't the way things work nothing else could be possible it's a delicate difference yeah, but you're right you're right in that sense Andy?

[Speaker 2]
you were saying that you look at the object and you see that it's coming to you and as you see your projections they disappear well, when do you stop? and when do you what's the metric? I'm using the right word you use, but you stay there, you stay with the idea you see what I mean?

[Speaker 1]
it's like in the process you're replacing projections with nothing and what happens? well, it's like this you're on an object in number four you say ok, this thing or this person the way I perceive them is projected by me and then you pose the question to yourself, what if it wasn't let me move the projection let me take away the projection and see what's left and what will be left is nothing because nothing can exist that way now focus on that for a while ok, keep your mind on that's emptiness, that's a kind of emptiness keep your mind on that for a while what will happen?

you're asking what happens over the next few minutes you will hear a car beep somebody next to you will move somebody will sneeze your mind will go off the emptiness that you finally reached to this noise seize the opportunity this is called kyun lam tu gyurwa transforming problems into the path it's a famous idea in Buddhism seize the opportunity take that sneeze examine it why was I interrupted from this perfect meditation oh, I must have interrupted someone else before where is it coming from it's a projection of my mind is there any sneeze that's not a projection of my mind wipe out the sneeze that's a projection of your mind you get back to the same emptiness you were just on you see, it's very cool interruptions are wonderful you know, you just seize on it examine its dependent origination say, is there any other way that it could be, no and you're back to the same emptiness you were when you got interrupted and it's very cool so, frankly we're not good enough to maintain a projection of the emptiness for very long you see, we don't have the karma the karma wears out how long does it take, 30 seconds?

a minute? seriously and the karma wears out and then a thing comes called an interruption it's not a self-existing external interruption produced in an interruption factory and sent here you know it's your own karma the karma wore out to see the emptiness very quickly, because it's precious karma it's extremely expensive karma to see emptiness and then you had another interruption yeah, and if you're interrupted by your own thoughts it's just another projection your karma to enjoy the perception of emptiness which is the most expensive karma you can spend you blew it and then you had to come back to hear your mind and say, what's for dinner?

you know, oh, no dinner tonight okay which is why you gotta do heavy good deeds help people, help the poor help the hungry, help the Dharma you have to do that you have to do that stuff or you can't make, it's too expensive you know it uses up too much good karma Andy had I hear you keep talking about number four doing more or less with feelings not with form and self should we stay on feelings? I think feelings are very powerful you know the place in the Bodhisattva Charvatara the Guide to the Bodhisattva's Way of Life where Master Shantideva raises this meditation is not in the ninth chapter it's not in the chapter on emptiness where was it? it's a chapter on not getting pissed off it's a chapter on dealing with the things that make you upset the bad things in your life whether it's a traffic jam or your own health or the relationship you have that's not going well feelings are a very great motivation for examining what's going on here why is this pain happening?

nobody asks why things are going well they don't say why me when they win the lottery they say why me when the doctor says you have cancer you see what I mean? and that's when your mind gets into a very analytical mode it wants to know why am I suffering and the key of where you're going to collect bad karma and where you're going to lose it is when you get upset at other people or you dislike other people or other situations so that's a very powerful place to shoot it it's a much more powerful place and that's why that Dumba the guy with the arrow in his eye it's a very nice place to break the wheel of life you had a lot of questions already how about this many?

[Speaker 2]
don't you eventually have to get beyond an object?

[Speaker 1]
what do you mean? a Yule Chen is proposing that she can do without a Yule let's see where she goes from here you studied logic, right? so now it's not so hard for me now a subject is proposing the lack of objects I think ok, I'll give you a chance I think what I'm asking you is you're proposing fixating or thinking about a flower or some object but don't you have to go beyond that?

what do you mean when you say beyond? ok, well you said that matter is a projection everything is a projection but don't you have to go beyond one thing and then kind of get into the nature of reality, get into the whole thing or is that the second is that sort of like the second step I guess the question would be but it's a serious question it's a very, very serious question I was grilled on it during my Geshe exams I don't know who was there you were there I don't remember your answer no, it was the it was the former abbot of the nunnery in Dharamsala who's from Suramey and he was down there for a visit unfortunately and and and in the study of emptiness it's called which means what object do you focus on to get the direct perception of emptiness to trigger what will trigger that and you start with things you start with objects like flowers or pots or things like that that's the useful thing at this point, while you're doing Ketub Jey's analysis, do it with things okay, when you get good at it the ultimate object is yourself so for Winston it's Winston, for Robin it's Robin for Fran it's Fran, for Roy it's Roy and in the end you have to take in the end you should reach yourself and do yourself but it's hard because you have so much investment in yourself, you know so start with something that you don't feel so strongly about you know, like a flower or a pot or something like that but yeah, in the end when you see emptiness directly it's always the emptiness of you personally the first one you always see is the emptiness of you personally so sooner or later you have to get to that now, do you focus on some cosmic law of all things are empty that's difficult for most people I mean, most people don't work as well in abstract as they do with concrete objects and it's true about emptiness as well, it's probably better to start with some kind of concrete object although the Buddha goes through all 18 dhatus, you know, by the end he gets to the consciousness of your thoughts but he starts with physical objects and that's where we should start