Серия ежедневной практики, курс 05 — Медитация о смерти и о конце смерти (1999, Роли), занятие 5

[Speaker 2]
Session five.

[Speaker 1]
Satsang with Master Jigme Khyentse Rinpoche Satsang with Master Jigme Khyentse Rinpoche Okay, we'll do a meditation. One of the most important things to do before you start meditation is to clearly know it's really... So you can tell a New York student, you know...

[Speaker 2]
kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk Alright.

[Speaker 1]
kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk And then when you're ready, watch your breath okay? And take refuge. There are many, many kinds of refuge.

Buddhadharma, sangha, lama, and we'll take refuge in death meditation. So, think about how it can protect you, how it can save you from a wasted life, and think about bodhicitta. The real essence of it is to become yourself perfectly happy so you can teach other people how to do it.

So, I think in this case we'll think about how happy are you and could you make yourself happier then you'd be able to teach better other people how to be happy. That's the real essence of bodhicitta, not so much giving people things. Now invite your lama or some other holy being to meditate before you, a little bit higher than you, and think about some good qualities they have that you admire.

And it's not wrong here to imagine that they're perfect in that quality. Maybe you don't see them that way, maybe they're not that way, but it's good for you to imagine some kind of perfect quality in another person. So take a quality that you admire, that you think is pretty good in them, and then imagine that they're perfect in that, and then admire that in your mind.

And now make them some offering, either visualize something very beautiful, like a beautiful song or birds or something beautiful to see, like a tree or the sun or a child's face. And then if you feel like it, sometimes make the offering of your practice, something you're doing well, or something you're trying hard if you're not doing it too well, or something small you can do later today that you'll offer to them. That's the sweetest offering.

And then next, think of something negative you've done or said or thought about someone else in the last few hours, and make it very specific, and try to play it back like a video recorder, and exactly where were you, exactly what did you say, exactly what did you think. And I think usually that's enough to regret it. And then equally, for something good you did today so far, something good you thought, and be very, very specific, even if it's a small thing, but it's not much use if you're not specific.

Play the tape back and be happy, and ask for teachings, formal teachings, ask that you understand the teachings and that you're able to put them into real practice, and then ask for all the little teachings that people give around you. It's very possible that the person who hurt you the most in the last six months is an enlightened being trying to make you understand karma, or try to get you to be serious about your renunciation, or teach you something about your pride or your ego. Imagine that.

Now, make a prayer that all the holy lamas and other beings stay in our world, His Holiness, Dalai Lama, Lama Tsogpa, Lama Ueso, all the other great lamas. Pray for their long life, that they stay near us, and then for the health and long life of all your Dharma brothers and sisters in this place. You may not love them all the time, but if you didn't have this place and you didn't have them, you would be a much worse person.

That completes the preliminaries, and now you can scratch that itch and stretch your leg out, and then we'll start the real meditation. When you're ready, go back to your breath, and then we'll start death meditation. Go through the nine steps, the three main divisions and the preliminaries, which have three in them also.

So really, so far we have twelve different meditations, and you can walk through and stop at whichever one you want when you do it by yourself. So first we're coming out of the forest, loaded down, dirty, tired, bent under all sorts of junk on your back, your clothes are dirty, heavy, I see like fatigues, you know. And then you're coming to this table, people are milling around and fighting for drinks and food on the table, and some of them are grasping at the things on your back, and you're pushing them away from the table, and trying to get what you want and hurting people.

This represents your life as you will lead it if you don't meditate on death. Then making your way out of the crowd, and breaking away from the crowd, and walking across the drawbridge, and there's a water below, and you're throwing things off, getting lighter and lighter as you go. Don't just throw things down in the water.

Make sure you equate them to something that you do. Try to pick at least one thing in your life that you would like to divest. One possession, or one relationship which is not very holy, spiritual.

And then maybe some activity that you do that's not really necessary for your happiness. You're just divesting things that take up your time, fill up your time, fill up your money, fill up your thoughts unnecessarily, and you're divesting as you cross the bridge. This represents the benefits of meditating on death, that automatically you'll want to give up some things like that.

And then you see at the end of the bridge these terrible soldiers, like with swords and knives and you break through them. This is a wrong death meditation, this is a being afraid of death, or regretting death when it comes, or feeling bad about thinking about dying. You break through that kind of conception about your death and you break out into the meadow and you're dancing across the meadow and you're dressed in very, very light silk.

Not even like clothes, but just like cloths. And then you're dancing across the field and you feel light and happy and vibrant, excited. And this is the real death meditation.

This is where you want, what you want your death meditation to be, to lead you. So this has two parts, you break through the wrong death meditation and the wrong way of looking at your death, and into this excitement that you are always acting as if you are going to die tonight, and you've stripped your life down to the most holy, most exciting practices you can do, and you're not tied down with a lot of other things. You come to a large door in this building, it has a courtyard in the middle that you're trying to reach, a sunny, beautiful courtyard, warm, blue sky, but you're on the outside and you have to go through the building.

You come to a large yellow door and you stand and look at it for a minute, and this represents the first of the great three divisions of death meditation, which is meditating how certain it is that you're going to die. You go in the door and immediately on your right is a huge, violent animal, chained, and would like nothing better than to rip out your throat and kill you, and if it got away it would, and this is your own karma, your own death, and it's unstoppable. If you can't practice, then it will kill you.

Next to the center of the room, I see there's a circular room, and there's a pedestal, a stand, and on top of the stand is an hourglass, and you look at it and you remember this means that your life is continually leaking away. I think as you get older it seems to accelerate, or more busy it seems to accelerate, and there's never any pause, it's always leaking away. No time to rest, you can't take a rest, you can't take a break, whether you're active or whether you're sleeping, your life is, the life you had is leaking out, nothing coming in to replace it, and sooner or later it will be empty.

Then walking quickly, running down a corridor, it's like a little bit dark, there are pictures of your great lamas, great teachers, the things they've taught you, like portraits with lights over them, and you're running by and you don't have time to remember what they taught you, you don't have time to practice it, you just don't have enough time in your life, so even while you live you have not enough time to practice the things you'd want to and should, and we think of that as you run down the corridor.

Think of some of the specific teachings you had that you didn't have, they were wonderful, they were great, they were life-saving, and you didn't have time to do them and you rushed on to the next thing. Then you come to a green door at the end of that hall and it represents the fact that it's not sure when you'll die, even though death is sure, the timing is not sure. And look at the door and remember, and you come in and you look down to your right, there's a garbage can, in the garbage can is a piece of paper with a big 72 printed on it, and then you remember this represents the lie, that there's an average lifespan, that you can, they call it life expectancy, which is, the word expectancy is a lie.

You can't expect anything, you don't know, you may die tonight, this afternoon, and look at it and remember. And then on through the room with some of your familiar objects in your life, your car, your bed, your chair, stairway in your house, glass door, and your patio door, which have all killed people, and kill people every day, and you're walking through and you're looking at them, and each one is like a bomb, and you're wondering which one it will be that will kill you. And somewhere in the mess there's a little piece of pizza or a little sandwich, and very few things keep you alive, many things can kill you, even a sandwich is 50-50.

On towards the end of the room, which is like a triangle, an elongated triangle, and then just before you reach the red door, you step on a small thorn or a splinter, and you stoop down and take it out of your foot, and a little droplet of blood comes out, and you think about how fragile your body is. And those two true stories, you know, especially the one of the young man at Saron that I saw, who died from that, just a small poke on his leg, and then got infected, and then he died while I was there. Our bodies are like that, very fragile.

So, remember the thing about AIDS, one small virus entering your body, remember the thing about cancer, one random ray of sunlight, the radiation from the sun or of a wall, just breaking one little tiny cell in your body, a small part of one's self, and then you have cancer. And you go through the red door and you open it, and there's this long corridor with an arched ceiling, and it's made of glass. And then there are objects in the room, and then there's a glass outside, like a, I see a frosted glass on the outside, and sunlight coming in, and then between the glass of the hallway and the glass of the outside wall, what is that first thing?

Friends and relatives, on each side, and they're talking to each other, and laughing, and touching each other's arms, and they're not thinking about you, and you're like, first you're like ticking on the glass, and then you're knocking on the glass, and then you're banging on the glass, and they can't hear you, they can't see you, you can't take them with you, you will be alone. Then as you walk halfway down this rectangular room, then there's, on each side, are all your favorite possessions. For me, like some favorite photos, or books, or discs, and I'm looking out, and they're all disheveled, and it's as if I haven't been there for a while, and I'm trying to reach them, and I can't reach them, and then I realize I can't.

I'm dead, I'm already in the bottle, and frustrated, angry, and can't reach them. No power over them anymore. And then at the very end of the hallway, behind the glass to the right, your own body, naked, on its back, and a face like, featureless, which represents you, you will lose even your, the body that you took so much care to work for, and keep healthy, and keep dressed, and keep fed, and keep sleep, and now it's worthless there lying, and you can't really remember who you were very clearly.

Then you have in front of you a white door, the same size as the other, big, set in like a solid wall, and this represents the decision that you'll have to make after this meditation. Three decisions to be made, and look at the door and remember, it means three decisions you will make. And you open the door, and you're in a very small, round room that's a turret, and there's like a tower going up, and there's like slits for windows, and there's sunlight coming down into the room, into the center, but you're not in the sunlight yet.

And then to your left, this time to your left, leaning against the wall is a big, is a long staff of wood, very strong wood, the staff is even a little higher than your body, but it fits your hand well, and it looks familiar, and you take it with your left hand, and taking it represents the first decision, which is, if it's sure that I'm going to die, then I'm deciding to start my practice. My decision is to start my practice. That's taking up the staff in your left hand.

And then you take one step forward towards the circle of sunlight, but you're not in it yet, and you slam the bottom of the staff down on the ground, and you hear this sharp noise, and that represents the second decision, which is to do it now, start your practice now, today, start the process of thinking and acting as if you were going to die tonight. And that's a response to the second room, the second division, which is that you don't know when you're going to die, so you have to start now, and when you hear this sharp rap of the stick on the floor, then remember that you have to start now. And that's a response to not knowing when you will die.

Each time, by the way, you're stepping forward with your left foot, then you step forward again with your left foot, and you're in the sunlight, and you take the stick up, the staff, and hold it in front of you up high, like with some kind of power. And that represents that, given the fact that nothing else can help you when you die, this is what you will do, this one practice, you decided to concentrate on one thing, and that's your spiritual life. And holding the staff up high, and looking up to the sun, represents, this is the one thing I will do now with my life, I will practice, I will do the holiest practices I can find.

And I'll cut down, I'll cut away all the useless things I do, and I'll even start to cut away the practices I do which are not as powerful, and not as likely to get me enlightened quickly. Even those people who decided to do Dharma have to continually move up the ladder of practices and try to go ahead as strong and as quickly as you can, because you have the responsibility to others. So you hold it up high, and decide to concentrate on your practice, only your practice, and only the practices that are the most powerful you can do at that time.

Then you look to the right, and there's a door, a navy blue, I'm sorry, sort of a royal blue, not too dark, not too light, but a strong blue color, and you turn your head towards the right, but not your body, and then you bring the staff down in your right arm, and point towards the door, and that'll be the door of our practice. And that's the practice that we're going to do, and we'll be doing that next, okay? So, come back now to visualizing the Lama in front of you, or the being in front of you, and you ask them to stay in your heart, and you always have to remember they're like thrilled by the request, they get like tingles, tingles up their spine, very happy that you asked, very happy that you had the brains to ask.

And they rise up in the air, and they turn to face the same direction as you and float down onto your head, and now they're very small, three inches high, and then you picture that little chamber in your heart, meaning behind your heart, more towards your backbone, like a little chapel, with a beautiful huge flower, like made of velvet, and on it a cushion of the sun, beautiful golden sun, warm, and you bring them straight down like in an elevator. By this time they're really small.

I always think of the princess and the pea, and the thing in your heart is like a pea, the sizes are like a pea, from the outside, when you get inside it's like a very beautiful, roomy chapel. Then they come down and the light from their body is filling that chapel, and it's warm in your body, and you can feel like a small globe of warmth in that spot in your body. And then the light comes out from there, seeps through your blood, throughout your body.

Then you're like one of the very few people in the United States who knows how to do a good death meditation, and you dedicate it to others, the good karma of having done this last meditation. The light bursts out of the pores of your body in needles, yellow golden needles, and touches people around this city, and then suddenly they feel happy, and they don't know really why. Okay, then relax.

Okay, I'm going to go over with this, just so you have the oral lineage, okay? It will take about ten minutes, and then we'll have a break. Then we'll start the actual practice.

Practice meaning the thing that would be best to do if you're going to die tonight. This is called what a Buddha should do when a person is dying. It was a response to so many people dying, and asking my Lama what to do, that we finally wrote it out.

It's question and answer. The first question was, what should we do how should we handle a person while they're dying, on their deathbed? We'll have to hand it out.

Yeah, it has not yet? We'll give it out.

[Speaker 2]
Okay, all right, great.

[Speaker 1]
You don't have to write it down. No, you don't have to write it down. The main thing that Rinpoche emphasized was that you shouldn't disturb the person while they're dying.

The ambiance of the room should be like a nice French restaurant or something, like the staff is moving around quietly, and the light is down low like candlelight or something. Seriously. And the place is fragrant, and there's no clanging, and people crying.

You have to ask the family to try to control themselves, and that they should get in the mood that they're trying to help the person move on in a nice way. And if there's panic in the room, or violent emotions in the room, or somebody's screaming, don't go, you know, it'll disturb their mind. So the room should be, the temperature of the room should be nice for them, like normal.

They should be comfortable. You know, like, not these hospital smocks on, you know, and not the, they give you one cheap little blanket, I never figured that out, that's always too light for the room. You know, give them their old quilt and let them be in that, and make it quiet and peaceful, and just conducive for dying well, okay?

Somebody asked me, does this mean you shouldn't try violent means, like restarting their heart? You should, okay? But I'm talking when it's clear that they're not going to be surviving.

Then you make everything quiet and ready for them. My Lama's personally expressed the wish that he could die at home, and if he died, so, then it would be, he thinks that would be better, okay? If the person is a Buddhist, then talk to them quietly about religious things, you know, especially encourage them to think that their karmic slate is clean, and to forgive all the people they hurt, and to, all the people that hurt them, and to feel some regret for all the people they hurt, and to review all the things they might have done to someone, and admit them, and clear them out.

And then he goes on to explain that if you, there's a selection process called sundepa, which is not the same as suldep or suldep, okay? Suldep means to request, suldep means to visualize, and suldep means to pick your karmic seed like a lottery number, and at the point of death, you select your main seeds that determine your next life. So in theory, it's possible, what Jesus said, to be a really bad person your whole life, but if you really, truly regret it at the end, you can still have a good rebirth, and it's also possible to lead a good life, and then at the end, if things are chaotic, that you could pick a bad seed.

And that was that thing in the Bible about the payment. Some guys worked all day and got paid eight dollars, and some guys worked fifteen minutes at the end, and the guy still gave them eight dollars, and they thought it was unfair, and he said, no, that's the way you die sometimes. That's okay.

The people who worked all day are kind of assuring that they pick a good seed. The people who get paid for the last fifteen minutes are taking a risk, but it doesn't mean it doesn't work sometimes, but it doesn't work that often, okay? So anyway, give them the best shot by making them calm and happy at the end, okay?

Remember to notice that even after the breath is stopped, they may still be alive for a while. With a Lama, a great Lama, it can be days. And that the way you know the difference, like when the death has really occurred, or the mind has really left the body, is the release of fluids in the nose and the release of urine and feces like that.

So you have to, not so much watching for pulse or breath, but you're watching for those things, okay? And then he said, be careful not to jar the body before that. And he got very heavy on us at this point.

He said, if you touch them strongly and the mind leaves because of that, you've actually killed them. So, you have to be, he got very heavy on us, you know, we're like, oh. And in the Abhidharma it teaches that there are places, the mind will leave the body from a certain place, and very important to touch the person first on the head, so very firmly on the head.

And it's kind of weird because they're already rigid, like I've done it, and they don't move, you know? I mean, normally you touch somebody on the head, there's a little movement, you know, but this is like touching something heavy and immobile, and you'll know. And so if you come across a person who's just died, or even an animal, you know, then try to touch them here strongly.

It may be too late, and it may not be too late, but at least there's a chance, you know? So, touch them here strongly. Why do you touch them?

The Abhidharma and also many Tantric texts explain that a lot of where you go afterwards depends on where the mind leaves the body. So, very bad to touch them on their feet or on their legs, like that, and very good to touch them here strongly, okay? So the mind leaves from that place, okay?

And when you do, like, special practices called the tongkhira or the po'a, then you actually visualize certain syllables at the other doors of the body, the other spots of the body, to block those, so that you're forced out the right way, you see what I mean? You visualize, like, locks, Tantric locks on the other parts of your body. You're inside, and you lock the other places, so that you're forced out the right way, okay?

That's another thing, okay. Is it all right to refrigerate the body? No, okay?

Try to keep them out of the refrigerator as long as you can. Now, as I mentioned, in many states it's required that the body be refrigerated quickly, because of the idea of it contaminating the hospital and hurting other people. So you have to talk with the hospital in advance, and don't be shy, and be practical, you know?

You don't have to tell the person that you've talked with the hospital, okay? But if there's a chance that they can die, then go and get ready. And if they don't die, you know, it's okay.

But get everything ready in advance. Talk to each shift of nurses, you know? Normally the nurses are more cooperative than the doctors, okay?

My experience, you know, like the head nurse and a couple of the other nurses will be, they'll be more likely to be, you know, they deal with, they touch the patients all day long, and they're more likely to say, okay, we won't come in for two hours or something. Try to get at least two, three hours out of them. And don't be impatient, you know?

Somebody dies, it's an important transition for them. And give up the rest of the day, or, you know, just forget it, you know? Be with them three, four hours.

Get ready to be with them for three, four hours, and forget all your other things that you're supposed to be doing. It's a very important time for them. Did you have a question?

[Speaker 2]
You wait until you see the fluid, and then you touch it.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Especially I think more, I think more common the urine and the feces comes out, you know? That's more common to see.

If it gets to be a point where they're going to refrigerate the body, and you don't have a choice, then go ahead and touch it, okay? Strongly, right there. It's good if you're saying mantras the whole time.

Okay. A common practice is to, like, have a stool softener and the IV going through, so that you can't really tell if they're getting rid of urine and feces, because they are all the time. So, is there a...

I don't have any brilliant thing to say. I just noticed that the thing from the nose is very subtle. It's subtle?

It's supposed to be some white and some red, I think, but for me it's been very subtle. It's been much easier to judge from the feces and the urine. But I would say, if you're in doubt, wait, as long as it's practical, as long as you can keep the hospital.

And they will come and say, okay, that's all you can have, you know? In my experience. Is it good to donate your organs after death?

Remember today I said, yes, very good, but make sure the body is dead, make sure the mind is gone, okay? And that's not ideal for organs, but, you know, make sure the person's mind is already passed out of the body. And then Rinpoche, I don't know if it was a joke or what, but he said, make sure that it should never be done for profit, meaning you should never be selling the organs, but we don't do that in this country yet, okay?

What's the Buddhist position on mercy killing or ending someone's life to prevent further incurable suffering? Now Rinpoche has said very clearly that he doesn't want to be hooked up to all that stuff, because he wants to be able... we once went to visit a monk who was dying, and he was all hooked up, and Rinpoche said, that's very bad, you know, it's going to disturb him while he's passing, you know, and so he made it kind of clear to us that he didn't want to be hooked up to a lot of artificial means.

On the other hand, he said, once a person is hooked up, it's not right to unhook them, you shouldn't unhook them, you shouldn't be the cause for them dying, even if there's no chance of them coming out of it, okay? And the main reason, as you now know, is... don't forget this thing, okay?

I mean, the odds that they're going to suffer much more after dying are very high. You see, this whole thing of euthanasia depends on the concept of the mind dying after the body dies, and your whole bias towards, you know, shooting an animal who's hurt badly, the whole concept is that they'll feel better afterwards, and that's not correct, that's a fallacy. They won't feel better afterwards, most likely they'll feel much worse.

So don't, you know, forget that bias, that's a bias from a culture that believes that the mind is gone when the body is dead, you see? And we don't even make that distinction in English, you don't say, oh, when did your aunt's body die? You say, when did your aunt die?

You see what I mean? And we don't make the distinction between the mind and the body, you see what I mean? So you're not doing anybody any favor.

Forget that idea, it's wrong. It's not that way. That's a...

you're making a very gross assumption, which is that the mind stops when the body stops. And, you know, I always tell people, there's this insurance... there's an owner of a large insurance company that invites me to his place once a month to have a Buddhist debate.

He's very, very outspoken and a very rough guy. He was a longshoreman and a... I think they had some connection with the Mafia stuff, you know?

He's like, yeah, yeah, you know? But he has this Buddhist streak in him, and he wants to debate. And we actually have a debate in the boardroom, you know, once a month, you know?

And so he was like, he was like, prove it, prove this future life, prove it, you know? Like give them all Dharmakirti stances. I'll go believe it, you know?

And then he's a wonderful guy to debate, you know? He doesn't believe anything. No, you have to prove everything from ground zero, which is good for me, you know?

It's good for anybody. He doesn't believe anything just because you said it. He's a perfect debating partner, actually.

And then I said, well, goddammit, then you prove that people do die when they... you know? You know, I'm tired of trying to prove...

why is there this bias in America that I have... poor old Geshe Michael has to keep proving that your mind doesn't die. You prove to me your mind does die, and there is no proof, because it doesn't, actually.

You see, I mean, there is no proof. There's no proof at all. This is some kind of cultural fairy tale that you believe because your mom said so, you know?

And that's the only thing. If your mom had said the opposite, you'd believe your dad for the same wrong reasons. You see what I mean?

Anyway, it doesn't stop. It doesn't stop. It's got to go somewhere, and most people go lower.

So, you're not doing anybody a favor. Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
When animals die, it's also the same, right? It's better to not ever put them to sleep.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, yeah. Even if they're really suffering. Yeah, because they're going to be suffering much more.

Because animals' karmic credit cards are really bad. They don't know how to be thoughtfully or philosophically compassionate. They don't know how to do that.

And they've mostly either been selfish or violent in their lives. When people are drained dead, is their mind still in the body? I think Buddhism would say that if it's still breathing, then the winds are still operating and the mind is still there, but at a very subtle level, and not enough to generate electrical impulses, but still alive.

I can't hear the question. She said, if a person is brain dead, you know, no, I don't know what you call it, encephalogram or something? No recordable electrical activity.

Yeah, in Buddhism, as long as they're still breathing, then I'd say the winds are still moving. We distinguish between the manifest mind and the subtle mind. The subtle mind, I think, would still be going.

So that's a difficult question.

[Speaker 2]
What happens to the winds in the body when the body dies?

[Speaker 1]
When the mind moves, the winds leave, because lungsam jukpa chikpa, the mind and the winds are moving in tandem. Where the mind goes, so go the winds. In the case where someone is hooked up to machines and they're being made to breathe, and the body is still functioning, but if they weren't hooked up, it wouldn't be functioning on its own, is the mind still there?

Yeah, we'd say the mind is still there. And if you disconnect them at that point, you've killed them. And that's important to know.

And by the way, this is a very difficult question. I never come out of a class and everyone's convinced, or something like that, because it's such a gray area. But I'd say, better to err on the safe side, you know what I mean?

And not be responsible. I've heard people ask His Highness, suppose this is very expensive to keep this person alive. And then in a public talk, he'll say, well, maybe you should think about disconnecting them, or something like that.

But when he comes to Sarah and talks to the monks, that's not what he says, okay? So, the big difference between what His Highness says to an American audience, so as not to, what do you call it, alienate them completely. And this is a Buddhist tradition.

Lord Buddha taught avidharma, taught sattvatantrika, and taught mind only, and taught svatantrika, and didn't mean any of them. But had to, because of the audience, okay? So, yeah.

[Speaker 2]
And what if, before you got involved in Buddhist practice, you have turned off karma?

[Speaker 1]
Then you have to purify that karma, okay? Care for other people's lives. You know, volunteer at a hospital, dedicating that karma to wiping out that karma.

And then do it for six months, and then stop and say, finish. Decide, finish. You see what I mean?

Very important. Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
If someone dies a violent death, like in a car accident, for example, if you were with them, does the mind leave the body right away because it's a violent thing? What can you do, if you're with someone in a car accident, and they get killed and you're not, what can you do?

[Speaker 1]
If the death is very sudden, and all the liquids have been released immediately, the best you can do is do some prayers. There's still, mind is still in the area. And it's going to come.

It's going to come here, okay? Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
You know, when you're trying to help someone die, and you tell them to forgive the people that harmed them, what about asking them to bring up things that they regret, and letting go of that? Or do you just don't even go to them?

[Speaker 1]
No, that's good too. That's very good too. Because it's about 50-50.

They're going to have to do both before they die. So that's, by the way, if you have someone with a lingering death, my father died of lung cancer over, you know, a few months time, then we had a good chance to talk about things, and he had a chance to work out. And the closer they get to death, the more willing they are to let go of things, and that's a good chance, you know.

He was not a religious person, but towards the end he was, he saw the wisdom, I guess with some kind of special understanding as you get close to death. You get more, like the airplane thing, and I want to talk more about that today. The interesting reaction of a plane load of people, who are strangers, to thinking they might die together, and there was this whole bonding thing, and this love that was pouring out from everyone.

It was very noticeable. I remember the diaries of some ship captain who died in Antarctica, stuck there, and he's stuck with five people in a little tent, and they know they're going to die, there's no hope of any rescue. They're the only guys on Antarctica at the time, and they're snowed in totally, and there's no hope.

And the last journal entries, they think the journal might be found, so the last entry is, for God's sake, take care of our people. It's such a, what of a last thought, you see, that's a natural human last thought, is some kind of brotherhood with other people, some kind of love for other people, you know. You feel, the boundaries break down between people, and they see humanity as one big mass, and it's weird that that would be the last entry, but that's how it happened on the plane too, you know, it's like that.

Did you have a question?

[Speaker 2]
Well, it might sound stupid, but if you have like a, well, it happened to me that somebody died that I was going to take care of, and then we had a fax from Lama Tsongkha saying he was in Vajrayogini Paradise already, so is it okay at that point to put them in the fridge?

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. If Lama Tsongkha sent you a telegram, and a fax, and says they're already in Vajrayogini Paradise, you can put them in the fridge.

[Speaker 2]
It was like right after the death.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, yeah, no, it could be that they leave a second after the death, you know. But I say don't take a chance. Why take a chance, you know what I mean?

She said that they got a fax after one person had died from Lama Tsongkha saying this person was already in a Buddha Paradise, and so could you refrigerate the body then? And I'd say sure. But if you're not sure, and you don't have a fax from Lama Tsongkha, then...

No, I'm serious, you know, if you do, then forget it, just do what he said, you know. Yeah?

[Speaker 2]
There was an instance when my grandfather fell in the shower and died, and when they found him, they...

[Speaker 1]
You mean his shower killed him, actually? Seriously?

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, and they moved him to put him on the bed so that he could rest there, and then waited for those times. In that moving process, like...

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, better not to touch the body. Even if the body is all crumpled up and looks uncomfortable, then don't touch them. I mean, here, yeah.

Because by touching you might jog their mind out. Yeah. I've read or heard something about three days.

Three days for a really person with good meditation, you know. I'd just say as long as practical. You know, if, like John, I remember, at Vajrapani, it was good circumstances.

He died in his house, lots of Lamas and good practitioners were in the area, and they converged on his house, and I think they did pujas for two or three days. And if there's no problem with the authorities, and I think even if there is a minor problem, I mean, they're not going to accuse you of murdering them, they're just going to accuse you of not reporting it soon enough, and usually they just let you go after that. So, I think it's worth it.

I think, yeah, if you could do it for two or three days, it'd be wonderful. What are the best mantras or prayers to say while somebody is dying? We'll get to that.

It's coming. Did you have a question? No.

Yeah, Robbie. These instructions on leaving the body and where to touch the body imply that somehow our action is strongly influencing someone else's conduct. Yeah, I mean, it sounds like your action could affect their karma, but in reality, whether you touch them correctly or not is totally dependent on their karma.

You see? Whether you make the decision to touch them is their karma. And I'll give you a good example.

When somebody is being mugged, and you decide to run to their aid, do you always save them? No. I mean, sometimes you tap the guy on the shoulder, and he turns around and stabs you, and then stabs him.

I'm talking New York, right? And then sometimes you tap them on the shoulder, and they run away. But who has saved them?

Their own karma. Does that mean you shouldn't tap the guy on the shoulder? No, you should.

You have to. So that you can get enlightened faster to be a Buddha, to help other people. It's very interesting.

You see? It's like that Tonglen thing. So you're actually tapping them on the head to speed your trip to enlightenment.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
They are being tapped on the head by you because of the karma they have. Yeah, yeah. And if you grab their foot, it's their fault, really.

But you've done a bad deed. And karma works exactly... it's a scenario.

There's always the right person at the right time, and the right karma at the right time. It's always like that. You're doing a bad deed because probably you got used to doing them in the past, at exactly the time and place that they need to have the result of their bad deeds to be touched.

You see what I mean? It's always like that. And it seems unthinkable, but everything is exactly right.

You know? You're there to do the bad deed because you practice in your past life. And they're there to be the victim of the bad deed because their karma is ready to receive it.

And it's always like that. It's always this confluence of two people's bad deeds.

[Speaker 2]
So if it's okay to have a living will then to say that you don't want your life to go on by being hooked up.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. But if you were then in a situation where that living will... if there was an accident and it wasn't handy and you did get hooked up, does that mean that your spouse or something should not carry out that living will?

From what I understand, yeah, that's the way you should run it. Because then you'll be responsible for them killing you. You see what I mean?

You'll be encouraging them to commit a murder. That's the way Rinpoche presented it. And I think that's correct.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
Did you have a question?

[Speaker 2]
I'm a hospice nurse and I have to take care of people who are in other traditions. And sometimes families want them to have a bath right after.

[Speaker 1]
Oh yeah.

[Speaker 2]
And so there's not really the ability to be... You know, we try for a while, but it's my job to do that.

[Speaker 1]
She says that her job entails as a hospice nurse to bathe. Oftentimes the tradition, the spiritual tradition of the person involved would mean that they should be washed right after. And the family wants them bathed right afterwards.

And this is the same with all Buddhist morality. You know, you have to go as far as you can, you know...

[Speaker 2]
I always touch on it.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, yeah.

[Speaker 2]
I'm supposed to do it sort of gently, but...

[Speaker 1]
No, just if it looks like you're just straightening their hair or something. And a lot of Buddhist morality is that, you know. A lot of Buddhist morality is that.

It's kind of thap khe, thap tsul, skillful means. And you should bathe them if it would upset the family if you didn't, and if that's their spiritual tradition. And you should try to delay as long as you can.

And when you pick them up, you should touch them here first and mutter something in their ear, and like that. That's fine. There's a very beautiful thing in the refuge instructions to monks, to fully ordained monks, and it says, if your lama is a housewife, okay, if your lama is this enlightened housewife, and you walk into a room and they're there, and you have to do your prostrations, but it would hurt the faith of other people around you to see a fully ordained monk prostrating to what they perceive as a normal housewife, and you're not in any position to explain to them who this person is, then you should set a book down next to them and bow down to the book and sort of angle off towards the housewife, you know. And it's thap khe, it's called thap khe. And the fact that that's in the scripture tells you you have to be very careful about judging people's actions and what appears to be going on at a particular time.

You have to be very... The only person you can really judge is yourself. And that's the goal of Buddhist logic, that's the stated goal of Buddhist logic.

They studied it in New York. If you're not enlightened or almost enlightened, actually it says if you're not Shakyamuni or someone like Shakyamuni, meaning another Buddha, don't attempt to judge other people, because you might make a boo-boo. And there's no benefit to it, you know.

Might as well just watch out for... You can judge this one and it's messed up, so you might as well take care of that one. A few years back we were in Washington and Lama Zopa was there and gave the participant a scroll of different mantras, all manner of different mantras.

And he said that when someone dies you should be always trying to touch their face with that sheet, that scroll. Have you had any experience with that? I personally have never received that instruction, but I believe it.

And I think you should do it. I think it's a great instruction. I have a lot of faith in Lama Zopa.

I think he's a very, very, very high Lama and I think you should do it.

[Speaker 2]
Can suffering at the end of life purify negative karma?

[Speaker 1]
She said can suffering at the end of life purify negative karma. It's always the case that when you suffer you're wearing out negative karma. So therefore, say, the more you allow someone to suffer rather than...

[Speaker 2]
Or the more you allow an animal, particularly, because...

[Speaker 1]
No, that's a common question, you know. So should you not try to comfort an animal, for example, if they're suffering, because it will give them an opportunity to wear off bad karma. No, actually what you should do is try to stop their pain.

And if you succeed, they have the karma to have the pain run out already. You see what I mean? And if you don't succeed, they didn't have the karma to have the pain run out already.

But in either case, your responsibility is to help people with pain. Your absolute, constant, immediate responsibility is to always help someone who's in pain, even though the pain is necessarily caused by their own bad karma. You see what I mean?

So, you know, if you read this book called The Garden, there's this scene where the guy says, well, who's responsible for all the pain in the world? And the other guy says, their own bad karma. So then the other guy says, the first guy says, well, then I should just leave them alone, right?

And the guy gets furious, you know, the other guy blows up. I forget who it is, it's Dharmakirti or something, and he says, you idiot, you know, this is the biggest mistake a person can make, is to go from that to that. It's, I mean, it's their karma to suffer, ergo, I don't have to help them.

You know, this is like the most, in Buddhism, this is like the greatest leap of stupidity that you can do, you know. No, I'm not saying, but from this idea to that idea, and it's such a, it's a very common objection to Buddhism, that, oh, if people, if children who are burning in Kassava, if it's their fault that they're burning, then you guys must believe that you should just leave them alone. And no, it's not that.

Because it's their fault, I must help them. Get used to that idea. Okay, yeah?

[Speaker 2]
If someone is killed by being repeatedly blown on the top of the head, they die in that process, and then they're left for like over five hours without anybody touching them, does that awareness of being hit on the top of the head do anything for them?

[Speaker 1]
I would say so. And it's their karma to be hit there. You see what I mean?

Yeah. So, better to go through the windshield than...

[Speaker 2]
Okay.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, yeah. In general, I'd say, logically, yeah, yeah.

[Speaker 2]
I'm a nurse in cancer research, and we give a lot of trial drugs. Knowing that a lot of animals are given these experimental drugs and harmed, and then eventually killed, do I collect some of the karma of that even though I'm not involved with the animals, but then it comes directly to me giving it to patients?

[Speaker 1]
She said she's involved in cancer research, and sometimes their company might give experimental drugs to animals knowing that it will kill them to see how their effects are. Two answers to that. Yeah.

[Speaker 2]
I'm a nurse in cancer research, and we give a lot of trial drugs. Knowing that a lot of animals are given these experimental drugs and harmed, and then eventually killed, do I collect some of the karma of that even though I'm not involved with the animals, but then it comes directly to me giving it to patients?

[Speaker 1]
She said she's involved in cancer research, and sometimes their company might give experimental drugs to animals knowing that it will kill them to see how their effects are. Two answers to that. First is the Abhidharmakosha, fourth chapter, has a very similar question.

And the question of the Abhidharmakosha is in the case of a war, it's really the person on the front lines who's pulling the trigger and killing the other person. So do all the other people in the army collect that karma equally, or do they just collect some of the karma? And what about the people back home who are sending money for the war effort and stuff like that?

And the answer in the Abhidharma is everyone who's involved knowingly and happily and who's supporting it wholeheartedly collects exactly the same karma as the guy who pulls the trigger. You know, which is a good argument for a sort of activism, I think. You know, that working to stop a war effort or something like that.

Because we are collecting that karma. Now, it depends on how wholehearted your support of it is. Very much depends on your wholehearted support.

If you're not wholeheartedly supporting it, and in fact, you're mentally disassociating it from it. You know, like, I don't agree with the arms race. I don't think the United States government should build nuclear weapons.

But my work is more important than going to jail right now by not paying my taxes. So I do pay my taxes. I inform my representatives that I object and I disassociate myself from that.

And then you don't collect much karma. Second thing is, under extraordinary circumstances, you can think of that, if you conceptualize it as being of great benefit to other beings, that you're seeking to help thousands or millions of beings. If you really conceptualize it that way, then it can be a very good karma.

Okay? So it's important for you personally to think of it, if you can't stop it, you know, if you're not in a position to stop it, then it's important that you conceptualize it as being of great benefit to other people, to many people. Yeah?

We know it's wrong to drop bombs on kids, you know, to use the Kosovo example. To extend it further and dare get into relativity, I suspect, what do you do when the person who you're trying to dislodge supposedly is a very evil type of person who, if given his way, will exterminate a complete group of people? Now, is it very common to be exterminated?

Do we not help them? Do we find another way of helping them, by which time they will be useless? What attitude do you want to take on that?

He's saying the question of, suppose there's a very evil, like a Hitler type of person, who's moving into Kosovo. They're going to be killing all these people. You know they're going to be killing all those people.

You have a choice of hurting some of them to stop the... There's a couple of answers to that, okay? First of all, it's their karma to be hurt, so should we not do anything?

That's a fallacy. That's not correct, okay? You must take action, okay?

First. Secondly, there is the famous example of Lord Buddha in a former life as a ship captain, being on a ship, knowing that one of the passengers was going to murder the other passengers, and actually doing what we call liberation of that person's life, in order to save that person from the hell realms. You see what I mean?

Not so much to save the other 499 people. You get it? It's to save that person from a bad karma.

Then there's the statement in Pabongka Rinpoche, or someone, that in such questions, imagine the evil people as if it were that you came home one day and your mother had gone crazy, and you're in the kitchen with her, and she grabs a steak knife and goes after you. Now, would you just kill her? We're talking your own mother.

Or would you try to... Would you probably come up with a different method of restraining her very quickly? You know what I mean?

And if it was someone that you really totally loved, you would... If you loved them as much as you loved your own mother, then you would very likely come up with what we call in Tibetan logic, a pungsambha, a third possibility, you know, between killing them or just being murdered, you know. That's my other answer.

Fourth answer, ultimately, killing cannot lead to saving life. If you take an action and they are saved, it's not because you killed someone. And that you have to quote.

That you have to think about. If killing, if making war were the cause of peace, then it should always work. Then every time we take up arms, there should be peaceful settlement within six months, or six weeks, or six days, okay?

If taking up arms and hurting other people is not the cause of peace, then it should be unpredictable. Then sometimes war should end in peace and sometimes war should end in continued war. And that's how it works.

So, ultimately, in Buddhism, we say that harming other people can never lead to peace because of the dissimilarity of the cause and the result. And that's what Jesus meant when he talked about, you know, planting lemon seeds and getting orange trees. It doesn't happen.

The idea that harming could lead to happiness is impossible. According to the laws of karma, this is impossible, okay? You're harming someone will lead to harm to yourself in the future.

And if it works or not, it's totally dependent on those people's past karma, not on what you're doing. That's a very deep answer and very difficult. But you have to think about it.

The bottom line, fifth answer, whatever you do, if it's done with total compassion and total regard for the well-being of both the evil person and the person they're hurting, then you're on very safe ground. Okay, no matter what you do, whether you act or don't act, the important thing is to love both parties. Then you've done the right thing.

Get it? That's true in all situations. The test is not whether you do A or B.

And don't let your mind convince you that that's the problem here. The big test is whether or not you're acting out of a true love for both parties. Okay?

And that's the hardest thing of all. Okay? Yeah?

[Speaker 2]
I think, if you use a lot of drugs at the time of death, does that somehow affect the transmission? I mean, if somebody's in terminal pain, received mega doses of narcotics, and intoxicated, I mean, how does that affect that?

[Speaker 1]
Intoxicants are bad because they lower your inhibitions. You see, I mean, that's the Buddhist position on intoxicants. They are wrong in so far as a person who's had a few drinks is more likely to hurt someone or say something negative than a person who hasn't had those drinks.

At the last moments of life, if you're trying to, you know, prevent gross pain in a person and give them, what are they called, something, Brompton's solution? Yeah, yeah, cocktail, which my father was on for a while. Then I don't imagine it could be wrong from the point of view of using intoxicants, and I don't think it's presented that way.

But I think, because they're not going to be inhibited or less inhibited, they're going to be unconscious mostly. But as far as affecting the clarity of their thought, I'd say give them as little as you can to keep them out of pain. But it's still important to die with a clear mind.

My lama has often complained that the medications he has, he's almost 80, he's taking many different kinds of medication, and he says he can consciously feel their effect on his intellect and the clarity of his mind, and he's very hesitant to take some of them. And he's like cheating sometimes. He'll take half a pill instead of a whole pill.

And if his blood pressure is okay, then he, Vassal Tech, you know, he'll refuse to take the extra half, because he says it affects the clarity of his mind. Okay. For dilemmas like Kosovo, what mantra would you suggest we do for all parties?

Yeah, we'll go on to some mantra. Ready? Here we go.

By the way, while we were on the question of euthanasia, we threw in some abortion questions to get Rinpoche to make a comment on it. And obviously abortion is wrong, because there is life at the time that the mind enters the womb. At the time that there's conception, there's life.

And Rinpoche went on to say, it was interesting, because he said, I consider abortion the most repugnant kind of murder. And we said, why? And he said, this guy doesn't have any chance to fight back.

You know, it's one thing to kill a soldier in a war who's also got a gun. And it's another thing to mug a healthy adult who can punch you back. But this guy can't move, can't do anything, and you're just killing him.

You know, and he said, that makes it really unfair. Okay. What's the Buddhist position on contraception?

We went on to that, because we wanted to get clarification on it. If it's a kind of contraception that prevents the meeting of the egg and the sperm, it's cool. No problem.

There is no conception, and there is no coming in of the mind. If it's like a morning, as I understand, there's a morning after pill and something else, called an IUD, which actually breaks up the cells after conception, that's murder. So that's a distinction that you have to know.

Is it okay to use contraception that prevents conception? Absolutely. Okay.

Although Rinpoche once said, yeah, but you're kind of depriving somebody of a holy human life. You know? He once said that.

Now, I don't know how serious he was.

[Speaker 2]
With the morning after pill, like, it's literally the morning after, so there's no way to know whether the egg and sperm have met. Is that still wrong?

[Speaker 1]
I'd say if there's a chance that, she said about a morning after pill, if you're not sure the egg and sperm have met, I'd say, what? Then you're saying, if there's a 50% chance I murdered somebody or not, by taking this action, should I do it or not? I mean, I'd say, don't do it.

I'd just say as a system, don't use it. You know what I mean? Is there any way that we can help a person after they die?

And they say that, Rinpoche is talking about the force of prayers and that you can help them. And the principle here is, we do a thing called a jang chok, and the one that we do is based on Yamantaka practice. And you ask trained people, people who are properly trained, to do a service or a special ritual, where normally you take some clothing of the dead person or something that they were very attached to, and you place it on a chair, and then you try to attract their mind from the barno to that place.

And they have special powers in the barno. They can hear things that we can't hear. They can travel quickly.

In fact, the function of the barno and the reason there is a barno is to move to the location of your next birth. That's the only reason there is a barno. If you're being born into the formless realm, there is no barno.

Because you take birth in the formless realm wherever you happen to die. So there's no need for a barno. The function of a barno is to get to the next place that you're going to be born.

And it can move with the speed of light. So they have special powers. They can hear you.

Under special karmic circumstances, which are totally determined by their own karma, they can hear you, they can see you, they can hear the prayers. And so then we do special prayers to try to encourage them to lead a life of the six perfections in the future and to try to regret the deeds they've done. We burn some special seeds and they represent this person's bad deeds.

We burn a little piece of paper with their name on it and special things. You're asking them all the time in Tibetan to think that now your bad deeds are being burned off and go happily. And it helps them.

They can hear it. Then we objected to Rinpoche. We said, well, how many Americans understand Yamantaka rituals done in Tibetan?

And he said, they have the power to understand other languages at that time. They understand the meaning of your words even though you're saying some kind of words. And this goes into the power of mantra.

So the mantra can help them. And as they're dying, say mantras. Rinpoche said, om mani padme hum in their ears, softly, even if they were not Buddhist, as long as the family wouldn't object.

As long as there's not going to be a scene because you're doing that. If everyone's cool with it, gently recite mantras around them, even hours after they've died. And do it like that.

And keep reciting them. They can be around for a total of 49 days. And we asked Rinpoche, why 49 days?

Why not 48? Why not 50? And it's an interesting answer.

He said bardo beings only live for 7 days at maximum. They must die within 7 days. And you can only take 7 consecutive bardo lives in a row.

So the max time that you're in the bardo is 49 days. And it's important to do a ritual on the 7th day because by then they will have changed lives once. So that's the idea behind doing a ritual on the 7th day and the 49th day.

Then we asked him, how do you count it? Do you count it from the next day? He said, count it from the day of death.

So the day of death is day one. And then you count 49 days out. 7 days out and 49 days out.

I would say you try to get them to do chang chok as quickly as possible. The Yamantaka prayer, whichever one you're going to use, to try to attract their mind and help them. Do that as soon as possible.

And personally what we do in New York is we have a bunch of monks at Sarah who know how to do it. And we call them or send an email. Now we have email and they start right away.

And then I have an account there and they take it out of the account and I try to get the money back. So that's how we work it.

[Speaker 2]
Is it more powerful if you are physically closer to the person like say the folks who are dead in India as opposed to you being right there? Is it more powerful if you're there?

[Speaker 1]
Any last is more powerful if you're close by to the dead person. I think it's much more powerful if you're nearby. I think probably the odds that they would hear you and everything are better.

But again, Bardo beings have an amazing power to move and they can move great distances very easily. But I think if you do it in the vicinity of their home they often stay in the vicinity. The mind stays in the vicinity of the home and the body for a while because there's this familiarity with it.

And they're often times attached to that place. And I think it would be nice if you could do it near to where the death took place. It would be nice to train some Americans to do it actually.

Do they still have wind? Yeah. Do they still have wind?

Yeah, they still have wind. Is it alright to do something like Chang Chok for someone who's not a Tibetan Buddhist? Chang Chok, yeah.

Chang means ritual and Chok means purification. Yeah? Is there any particular mantra that you would say for a family member who is angered by the death of a loved one?

Who is what? Who is angered by the death of a loved one. Angered in what way?

Or just upset, you mean? Well, one of my friends, her dad died of cancer. Yeah.

And she used to be Buddhist and now she's not anymore because she's so angry that her dad died. Just angry about the fact that he died. That he died and left her alone.

Yeah. Or angry at him? Angry that he died.

Oh, okay. Now, I think then the best thing is, I mean, Buddhism stresses very much logic and explaining to somebody what, why that's crazy. You know what I mean?

And then, apparently she didn't understand much at all about karma or anything like that. He didn't want to die, I'm sure. And, you know what I mean?

And to be angry at him for dying or to be angry about his death, that's the same thing as being angry at another person for saying something bad to you or something. We call it, there are two kinds of anger. One is towards people.

One is towards inanimate objects like traffic jams or elevators that don't work right. And they're absolutely the same level of karma. You see, I mean, to be angry at a stone that you've stubbed your toe on and to be angry at another person who said something to you is exactly the same karma.

It doesn't matter whether it's a person or an inanimate object. So I would just try to explain that to them and say, you know, that's just a bad karma to be angry. And then you have to teach them about karma.

You know, that the reason they had to see their father die is that they contributed towards someone else's death. You see what I mean? And it's really, it's her own deeds coming back to her.

And by being angry, she's assuring that it'll be worse. You see what I mean? So try to get her to take refuge, which means to try to protect her own self by not being angry.

Because as long as you're angry, you build up very bad karma. and then you might try tap tsul, tap ke, skillful means. Take her out for a bunch of nice dinners.

Take her to some nice movies, you know. Take her to a very, let her listen to a very light tape about, you know, sneak her back into Buddhism the back way. You know, often times the frontal approach is not the, is not the way.

You know, just make her comfortable about being a Buddhist, and talk to her slowly, and don't expect too much, and do it gradually, and I think that's a good way to bring a person back. Yeah?

[Speaker 2]
Isn't that the type of anger that he's talking about, an anger of, of, of, of, of, of suffering, it's a form of suffering. Yeah.

[Speaker 1]
I think that the Lord says that that is a part of the grieving process, and it should be allowed to, to run its course. You can adopt, of course, but it is a part of, of, of, of the, of, of grieving process. He said, isn't, isn't that anger a part of the grieving process?

The Abhidharma, you know, I was kind of frustrated that Buddhist texts don't talk more about mental illness, and the Abhidharma does have a short section about mental illness, and it says that grieving is one of the main causes of temporary mental illness. Like, you just go a little bit crazy for a while, and that grief is one of the ways, typical way of causing that kind of mental illness. And then it says, you should still, and, and you don't collect much bad karma when you're mentally ill.

Like, if a monk breaks their vows under, during a short episode of severe mental illness, we don't lose our vows. You see, you don't, you do not really smash the vow. It's, it's not really a complete breaking of the vow.

And, that's a Vinaya principle. So, I'd say, you have sort of like, karmic, what do you call it? Karma, the rules of karma are suspended during times of extreme mental illness.

But, but still, if you could stop the anger as soon as possible, it would be less bad karma. You see what I mean? It doesn't, although it's a natural part of grieving, it should still be stopped as soon as you can, because it's, it is some negative karma.

I think it's totally negative of, you know, to just say stop, Vinaya. Oh yeah, I, it doesn't, I've tried it with my students, you know, who, and myself, having a severe mental affliction, and just, they say, what should I do? I say, stop it.

You know, and they're like, yeah, I'm talking Thub K, skillful means. Take them out on a camping trip, you know, I mean, helping someone who's in grief is one of your bodhisattva vows. It's a special bodhisattva vow, that when someone's grieving, you have to help them out.

And in the medical tantras, it's like, take them camping, let them look at the sky, let them smell fresh air, sit them down near a quiet stream, you know, take them to a cafe and have coffee and talk, just light talk, take them to a movie. These are all, I mean, those, the ancient Indian versions of all those are in the medical tantras as a treatment for someone grieving. So that's the time not to do heavy meditation and talk about Madhyamika philosophy.

It's, you know, that's the time to light, as a method, is to lighten up and help them and be light with them and get them to relax a little bit. Yeah? I can understand how the people who choose to have an abortion, that's a bad karma for them, but isn't it equally or, I mean, not to put it out of your judgment, but isn't it also bad karma

[Speaker 2]
to not allow someone to make their own choice, to, you know, force them to do something like, an example would be,

[Speaker 1]
you know, if you have a family who wants to wash the dead body, you're not going to say,

[Speaker 2]
no,

[Speaker 1]
I'm not going to let you do this, you have to let it, you have to let it stay here, there's no choice about it. Yeah, yeah. This is, I think, he said, well, if a person wants to commit an abortion, then really, aren't you violating, aren't you doing them violence in the sense of not allowing them to choose, by saying they cannot?

You say, I mean, shouldn't you have laws that say they can, but they have to collect all the karma themselves, or something like that, you know? What is your responsibility to try to stop them? Again, it's, I think suicide is similar, you see what I mean?

Like, committing suicide in Buddhism is considered a very serious form of murder, because you are eliminating the winds and channels and drops that could have gotten you into a tantric body in this lifetime, and you are wiping out that chance by shooting this body. And so, in a sense, you've committed the worst kind of murder possible. Suicide is the worst kind of murder you can do as a Buddhist.

Now, what is our responsibility to allow people to commit suicide if they want to, who don't understand that? Again, I think it gets into the realm of Thub Kepa, you know, like, finding ways to be skillful without making things worse. You know, if it's obvious they're going to do it, and on top of that they'd be very angry at you and you would lose your relationship and blah, blah, blah.

I mean, again, it's the steak knife and your mother thing. I mean, I've had students who actually offered to take the baby, you know, and stuff like that. So you might consider something like that, you know.

But what's our responsibility to see that legislation is passed to stop people from doing it? I don't know. I can't say that.

What is our responsibility to make sure that people don't commit suicide? It's the same thing. It's very similar.

I don't know. Personally, I think a Buddhist approach would be to try to educate people so that they wouldn't want to do it, and not so much to force them one way or the other. Like that.

Yeah. What about a person that commits suicide and they're mentally ill? They're, like, manic-depressive or something?

Yeah. If a person's having a mental episode, you know, and they commit suicide, the karma is much less. You see, because collecting a Lekhi Lam, which is a pure, 100% little egg karma seed, depends on clarity of thought, clarity of intention.

You have to be very clear that this is a living being, that this shouldn't be killed, and for everything you're not clear about, if you're not clear about who you are at that moment or what's going on, the karma is much less. Oh, one thing about funeral ceremony. Oh, what kind of mantras, if you, if you know Om Mani Padme Hum, I mean, everybody can do Om Mani Padme Hum.

If you know Vajrayogini mantra in my lineage, in my particular close lineage, we consider that very powerful. And that would be a, if you've had that teaching in my immediate lineage, Phamo Guru Rinpoche, Thichar Rinpoche, Ken Rinpoche, we would consider that very powerful to do, if you know how to do it. Okay?

And Khangye, if you know it, the eight, the eight, line, prayer. Rinpoche, we asked Rinpoche, is it better to burn the body or bury the body? He said, it doesn't make much difference at all.

In Tibet, they considered, if the person was very ill due to epidemic cause, you know, reasons that it should be treated, you know, the body should be treated in such a way that whatever disease they have doesn't hurt more people. But otherwise, he said, it doesn't matter much. In Tibet, they give the body away to animals to get some last mileage out of the karma, you know.

So, okay. What should be done with the belongings of the dead person? And Rinpoche said very simply, just do exactly what they wished.

You know, try to do exactly what their intentions were. And if they didn't leave any clear intentions, then try to imagine what their intentions were. Okay?

That's the main thing. Okay, I think we'll stop there. We'll do a little prayer.

Thank you. The last thing I forgot to say about that is, get ready for your own death. Okay?

If you don't practice that well, and everything comes down faster than you expected, have people near you who know what to do. I never, ever, leave the side of the people that I've trained to treat me when I die. I'm always within 10 feet of them, 15 feet of them, night and day.

You know, I've trained people to do what I need, and we have a mutual pact, and that's the way I do it. That's the way I take care of it, personally, and I think it's very wise. You know, you kind of, in your mind, your death meditation is not so strong yet, and you're kind of like, oh, I have time, or it's not something I have to do today, I could wait until tomorrow, or just do it now.

You know, make this deal with people around you. Make sure that the people that you are very close to know what to do. And, you know, I used to keep Rinpoche's name and number in my wallet, and then I was thinking, what if they don't look at my wallet, you know?

And I think, if you can, very preferable to teach someone who's very close to you and that you're close to all the time what to do, because if you think about it, this is one of the most important things you can do in your life. You know, more important than your job, for example. And it's something you should take care of now.

Okay? So, in the next few minutes, you know, think about it. Think about getting ready that way, and that someone very close to you is trained, and that you're always close to them.

Okay? All right. See you.

[Speaker 2]
This is the end of session five.