Углублённый курс ACI 03 — «Руководство к образу жизни бодхисаттвы» Мастера Шантидевы: обмен себя на других (2004, Нью-Йорк), занятие 7

[Говорящий 1]
Okay, questions from yesterday. Oh, you read. Read from the side.

[Говорящий 2]
What is Master Yudhisthira assuming when he says there is no difficulty in deciding that the bodies of others are your own body too?

[Говорящий 1]
What's the answer? Yeah, that you're practicing everyday. Yeah, anything you do constantly you can get good at.

I say an hour and a half a day you can master anything. Nobody in the modern world does that.

[Говорящий 2]
Under what conditions could you have self-cherishing?

[Говорящий 1]
Wow, that's a great question. Who wrote that? Everybody?

That's a great question. See, if it's a little tricky, you have to think, you see. Great.

[Говорящий 2]
Good.

[Говорящий 1]
Nice. Good. Yeah.

That's a Tamgyur, right? What's a Prasangika? Oh, it's the sky green?

Yeah. Based on what you've said so far? Okay, good.

Yeah. That's a really hard question. I don't know.

Did we cover that? By the way, we should mention this. We said it in a logic course one day.

I don't remember. John knows all these things. How mantras work.

Because really, it's a mantra. So what are the two requirements for a mantra? And who said they were the two requirements?

Of all things, a logician. In the second chapter of the Pramana Bhāgavatam. You know that in the first class, in class, the stuff that felt like it had to be accepted.

You see what I mean? I didn't want to get into worship things, that even business people or yoga people, you know, who are at churches, who put it up, you know, without talking about other deities and things like that. That was my hope at the time.

Okay. That's sort of a repeat in some ways? Yeah.

I got it. I got it. It's just that...

Okay. So we've got to collate all those into one. Yeah, good.

[Говорящий 2]
Okay.

[Говорящий 1]
Good. About eating dinner? Good.

Yeah, and that's going to be touchy, right? That's going to be touchy. How much free will is there?

That's what it concerns. Or is it a projection also? That you decide...

So you see, what's the difference between trying to see other people as yourself, and then waking up one morning and just eating dinner? The second one is obviously a karmic projection. This one is, too, but we're emphasizing that it's like a decision to try, even though it's not natural for you yet.

It's unnatural for you. But you try, and in that time, please, to make it natural. Okay, thank you.

One more? Oh, this one. Okay.

Yeah, good. That's like getting into the immeasurables. Why they're called immeasurables, the four immeasurables?

Especially in Vajrayana practice. Oh, oh. Any other stuff?

Oh, yeah, nice. Let me write it down. Okay, good.

Run the second and third one by me, please.

[Говорящий 2]
Cool. Thank you.

[Говорящий 1]
Very eloquent. Very eloquent. Okay.

We shift to class seven now. So, unfortunately, two classes after your last one, right? You don't hear five and six.

You come in on seven, which is the second weekend, Saturday afternoon. And, by the way, about the scheduling, James, I don't mind how you guys do it, but do it in a way that you think might bring more people to the afternoon. Like, if you think it'd be better to have it closer in for the evening, you think?

Do you think that? Not so much of a break?

[Говорящий 2]
I don't remember. Mm-hmm. And then the afternoons, too?

Hmm?

[Говорящий 1]
Oh, okay. Yeah. So, the idea is Sunday, seven to nine.

[Говорящий 2]
Okay?

[Говорящий 1]
And then have an hour dinner break before that. Because 46, the afternoon class is 46. I just, we just, I don't know.

You guys talk it over, but I thought if I started later, we might get more people. I don't know. In the afternoon.

And one thing about Friday night, which is unfortunate, it has to start, it has to stop at eight. It has to go from six to eight. I have a class at eight.

It'd be nice if the Friday night got from six to seven for me. Because we have a consisting number of speakers from eight to ten. So we can switch that back to eight to ten minutes.

And I thought on a Friday night it might even be better in New York City, because people can come from work and get home. Oh, I see. Okay.

It's the same time, and people will get confused. Okay, we're still on verse 140, I think. So maybe Mr. Thirwell. Okay, good. Those who are inferior to you and so on, be yourself. Make yourself now none other than the others.

Practice the attitudes of jealousy and competitiveness and pride without any misgivings at all. First from the same verse in Course 11, because I think it wasn't translated very well. And I translated it, okay?

The first one. I have read new commentary. Krishnadevaraya helped me.

And if you read the old one, it said, practice this with a state of mind that's free of ideas, the feelings of jealousy, competitiveness, and pride. But I've checked other commentaries, and Krishnadevaraya pointed out that the Sanskrit looks funny, and I don't know if you noticed, but there's something going on in the Sanskrit here, too. Gyalpo Dei bases his presentation now on this verse, saying we're going to explore three relationships.

One where you are lower than the other person. One where you are equal to the other person. And one where you are superior to the other person.

So normally, in our mind, what do those three relationships engender? How do you feel towards people who are better than you? Jealousy.

How do you feel towards peers? Competitiveness. How do you feel towards those who are lower?

Pride. Okay? So Gyalpo Dei is saying, okay, look, Master Satyadeva is about to go off on this thing about three attitudes.

One towards people who are better than you, in which case you get jealousy. And then one towards people who are equal to you, in which case you feel competitive. One towards people who are lower than you, in which case you feel pride.

What's interesting in the Sanskrit is there's not three emotions. There's only two. One is isya, which is jealousy.

And one is manam, which is pride. And some Tibetan translator has thrown in the competitiveness. Okay?

It is kind of interesting to me. There's no clear division into three in the Sanskrit. There's only two.

But the Tibetan translator, Ino En, a thousand years ago, felt like the word for jealousy had to be clarified by adding the word competitiveness. He called it jealousy competitiveness. And then Gyalpo Dei, by his time, which is 400 years later, he's treating them as two parts of a three-step process.

First you're jealous, then you're competitive, and then you're pride. So it's very interesting. And don't forget that Gyalpo Dei's outline is imposed on the text, right?

Gyalpo Dei has said, this is how I feel the text should flow. And he's closely following Prasakantamati, who was his hero, I think. He mentions Prasakantamati a lot.

Anyway, you've got our commentary. You've got Bodhisattva Tara written when? This is 700 AD.

Then you've got, in 1000 AD, you've got Prasakantamati. He's 250 years later. I mean, imagine how ATI teachers are going to comment on what we say today 250 years from now.

Will it still be as fuzzy as it was today, or worse? And then you've got Gyalpo Dei coming 400 years after that. So don't forget we're dealing with a text that's 13 centuries old.

And we have to keep that in mind. So anyway, we're about to start off on a sort of a dark exchanging self and others. This is not some kind of happy thing where you say, I'll put myself in your shoes.

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. That's the Christian version of exchanging self and others. It's not that easy here.

It's a lot darker. And it was hard for me, and I had a lot of trouble with this verse. But what he's suggesting, Master Shantideva, is that, OK, let's start out with pride.

Sorry, what was the first sentence? Jealousy. Let's start out with jealousy.

Somebody else is higher than you. Somebody else is higher than you. So, you know, I want to say that exchanging yourself and others, like you go to hear the Dalai Lama speak and he's like, well, put yourself in other people's shoes, you know.

Treat them as you would be treating yourself. You know, just out of time. He's saying, get this.

He's saying, put yourselves in others' shoes and see how dark it is to be around a bodhisattva like you. OK? Isn't that weird?

He's like, put yourself in others' shoes. See how they look up to you as their spiritual teacher. And you're going to see there's a point to be your student.

With all your mental frictions going on about your student. You see, it's a very dark... You know, when you really study it, it's not this jolly thing where you say, oh, I know you'd like to have a tea as much as I would.

Let's have... I'll give you my tea. It's not like that.

It's like, I set myself up... You set yourself up as somebody else's spiritual teacher. Do that first.

You're this bodhisattva. He keeps calling you bodhisattva. It sounds almost sarcastic.

You're the bodhisattva, capital B. How do your students see you? What can they expect from you?

How should they feel about you? Don't forget, this is by Master Shantideva. He has a huge following in the monastery.

I mean, well, eventually, right? But he was in the dharma business. He was a dharma teacher.

He had... I feel through the text, he's either warning you or he's a failure that he's become aware of as a dharma teacher. Jealously told other dharma teachers I, as a dharma teacher, you know, competitiveness.

You get that sense in this. So now we're going to do an experiment in this verse. You put yourself in the shoes of your student.

And you look at you. How is this experience? How's it going?

And he says, without any misgivings at all, which I have mistranslated in this before. Why did I mistranslate it? I couldn't believe what was going on until I read Prajnaparamita.

Here's what Prajnaparamita says. And I'll just do a loose translation. yid tam je nyonmongpay gyu yin yon dakdang shin tu jeype nampar cangway gyu nyi du gyurwa ched do yid tam je nyonmongpay gyu yin Thinking like this, putting your mind into these states is just going to upset your mind more.

More kleshas. More mental friction. If you really get good at the meditation we're about to begin, you're going to practice jealousy, competitiveness, and pride.

The exercise is to practice actively jealousy, competitiveness, and pride. Okay? Like it's uncomfortable to be in that mind state.

And I asked, we called Rebecca this morning. Did she come? Last night.

Oh, she's going to come in the evening class. But I asked her, get me a copy of the screw tape letters and bring it to class. This is by C.S. Lewis. If you don't know the book, it's about, it's letters written by the devil to his nephew who he has assigned to corrupt a young man in England during World War II. So the devil, you just read this correspondence, you don't see anything else between the devil and his nephew. And the nephew will say stuff like, something bad happened today.

I'm even embarrassed to tell you, the guy walked into a church. And then the devil writes back, don't worry. Get him looking at the girl.

Get him complaining about the other people singing. Get him worried about how, how, what do you call it? I don't know how bad the other people in the church are.

What do you call it when they do something, you preach and then you do their thing? Hypocrisy. Get his mind on everybody else's faults.

Don't worry. You know, and stuff like that. It's this really terrible exchange of letters between the devil and his nephew.

And C.S. Lewis, in the introduction, he said, this is, I almost went crazy writing this book because I had to put my mind into the devil's mind for like a year. You know, I had to think like the devil for a year. And it almost killed me.

You know, it's a very powerful, very powerful book. So, what Vajrakantamati is saying, we're about to embark on the same experiment. You are going to purposely put your mind into states of jealousy, competitiveness, and pride, in the hopes that you'll realize how screwed up it is.

How twisted it is. You see? You're going to practice thinking in a twisted state of mind in the hopes that you will, you know, figure out how bad it is.

It's very, it's very interesting. So, that's what Vajrakantamati says. And he says, dinye cheepay chir yin.

These are exercises for cheeba. What's a cheeba? Cheeba, do you know?

Cheeba means an infant. A kid. And it means somebody who is not an Aryan.

Somebody who hasn't seen emptiness yet. It's called a cheeba. This is, what do you call it in the West?

Stages of a baby's development. Anyway, cheeba is specifically from two to four. So, how old is Cheeba?

Yeah, well, almost there. Almost to Cheeba. Okay.

Anyway, also there's a thing he says, nar jel la sope samgir dikpa selv-arke. Which means, I want you to, selv-arke means, get it very strong in your mind. These dikpas.

What's a dikpa? Bad karma. Of nar jel la sope.

Pride and other screwed up things in life. I want you to do these bad deeds in life. Clearly.

Get it straight in your mind. Get really into this twisted state of mind. And then later he says, don't worry, I'm not trying to, you know, make you go to the hell realm.

I'm trying to make you see how screwed up they are so you can overcome them. You see what I mean? That's all.

That's all. But it's kind of a scary exercise to me. This is the exchanging self and other.

Okay. It's much different from, oh, think you're Alexander and think she might be thirsty, or, you'd appreciate your being on time today, or, you'd like to have some time to talk about Taiwan. You know, put yourself in her body.

Not like that. You're in the big body of thought process. Put yourself in the student's mind.

See how they see you. But here we see, we take off on the first exercise. So according to Gyatso Jei, we go through three states of mind.

Jealousy, competitiveness, and then pride. So first we're going to do jealousy. That's verse...

number... 141? Okay.

Go for it. So you claim to be a spiritual teacher. You're an ACI teacher, right?

Do you want your students to be enlightened? Do you want to empower your students to become teachers themselves? Do you want them to develop, maybe even beyond your skill, like a piano teacher, whose student becomes better than them?

Or would you like them to think like this about you? You see? Oh, my teacher should get the honor, and not me.

Isn't this what you really want out of them? You see? It's very screwed up.

Oh, people should talk about Martin or a good teacher here. No one should ever talk about me. I'm just his student.

Okay? Got it? This is a reverse jealousy.

It's a screwed up jealousy. This is the jealousy you... This is what you want them to have, right?

Oh, yeah, well... Oh, you can be a holy agatine, right? But I mean, isn't this kind of what you want them to think?

I think Master said... You can... This...

This class you have to meditate on. Or you'll get confused. I got confused.

Where am I here? Who am I? What's going on?

But basically, isn't this really what you want? Don't you really want them to be like, Oh, oh, he's so good, and I should just stay down here, a nobody, you know? He should get all the things he wants, and I shouldn't get anything.

Everyone should praise him, and no one should notice me. He should get all happiness, and I should have all happiness. Isn't that what you really want from other people?

You bodhisattvas. See, he's making fun of us. He's making fun of himself.

Put yourself in their shoes, looking at you the way you really are. Put yourself in their shoes, right? Change purpose again.

Look at yourself the way they look at you. Stuff like that. That's the whole idea.

Got it? It's hard. This you've got to meditate on.

I have a feeling that it will unlock itself to those people who spend half an hour a day on it between now and August 15th, or whatever it is. Yeah, doesn't it? Yeah, as a teacher.

But, but, you could read it, and I don't mind if you read it, and I don't mind if you teach it as, why don't we take this place with regard to other people? Why don't we put them up and say, they should do stuff I shouldn't do. They should do prayers I shouldn't do.

You should think that. You should take the back seat, let other people, you know, put other people up ahead of you.

[Говорящий 2]
Excuse me.

[Говорящий 1]
Oh, there's going to come a verse in about two verses from now, and then it will become clear.

[Говорящий 2]
Okay?

[Говорящий 1]
Later, he does say what you just said. Okay? So it gets very confusing.

And I don't mind either way you teach it. It doesn't matter.

[Говорящий 2]
Okay?

[Говорящий 1]
Either way will work. But, Prajnaparamita says, you are practicing darkness. It is jealousy.

It's a reverse jealousy. When you're jealous, and you want to be the big man, how do you really want other people to relate to you? Oh, you should get everything.

I couldn't get anything. You're the greatest. I didn't know that.

[Говорящий 2]
You know.

[Говорящий 1]
Is this what you really want out of teaching people? You seem very, very disturbing in a way. Now, if you want to go that way, or if your students look like they need some self-esteem and so on, I don't know.

Okay? You judge your students. And I'm sure it was designed to go either way.

We have so many Buddhist teachers. If you find this is not going to get out, then, by the way, I have to tell you something exciting. His Holiness has agreed to come to Kishon and teach this chapter in 2005.

[Говорящий 2]
Remember, please, it's a very limited seating at the Keshe Association.

[Говорящий 1]
We're working very hard on it. I could see maybe the whole Diamond Mountain faculty and students could be there, because they will be in session. And it would be nice even just to fly out for that weekend.

I think it's a four-day teaching the whole chapter. There's some meditation in. So, if you might go talk to Kiki now.

Son of a Kiki. I don't know. We didn't guarantee that this week that Kiki would be there.

We're trying to politic among the faculty. In Vancouver, he's teaching at University of British Columbia. It sold out in 25 minutes.

And people were fighting for tickets. And, that was funny. And, then just out of public outrage, they moved it to the hockey stadium.

And 15,000 people came. And it was sold out. And then in Toronto, 30,000 people came.

And we had the pleasure to be there, the honor to be there. And he and Bishop Kiki and have this pekate. And pekate.

It was so powerful. They put out indy chairs on the stage and they just dunked it instead of pekate. And, you know, exchange wisdom.

It was rude. It was rude. Anyway, in mind.

[Говорящий 2]
keep it in mind.

[Говорящий 1]
Well, I would say that verse is like, isn't this what you really want out of your students? Don't you want them to run around and take all the pain and you just bask in the glory?

[Говорящий 2]
What's the key?

[Говорящий 1]
Again, isn't this what you really want? Isn't this where you really want to be? You know, now you're them, right?

And they're you. And don't you really want them looking up to you like that? How does it feel to be one of your students?

Of a disciple? Effective bodhisattva. His real interest is that all these people look up to him.

See? That's how Vajrakarmani takes it. Now, obviously, it could be some very noble thing where you're like, oh, other people they need should relax.

I should do all the work. Other people should get famous. I should look like a nobody.

Know nothing. Okay? You can do it either way that's comfortable for you.

All right? I mean, I think a lot of people might react better to this simpler presentation. Take the back seat.

These people are called sangha, bodhisattva, bodhisattva samsara, living beings. That's the two people in exchange. The exchange here is a huge exchange.

It's you and all other living creatures. You, the bodhisattva. He's referring to us as bodhisattva.

Throughout the text he calls you bodhisattva. It means, like, aspiring bodhisattva. Around here it gets almost sarcastic.

Oh, bodhisattva. You want everyone to think... You want everyone else to work hard and the bodhisattva should do that.

Okay? And you want everybody else to get... Everybody else should think...

Everybody should think all these other people are know-nothings and you should be Mr. No-No. Right? That's what you really want, right?

I think he's picking at you that way. See how it feels to be your student. And you're expecting your students to run around and work and then you sit at John Brady's and have a No-No.

Teaching. Okay? All right?

Something like that. Awful quiet. See, I think there's that layer thing, lasagna thing.

You can take it on many, many levels. Teach it on many, many levels. Don't forget he's coming from a monastic background.

He has lived his whole life in a monastery. For him it's all about students, lamas, disciples, sponsors, and monks. Those out there...

The whole book is written from that point of view. The fact that we can relate to it all is pretty cool. He's from a whole other society.

He's from a monastic society.

[Говорящий 2]
Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

[Говорящий 1]
Meaning Tim Tim. All people. No, no.

No, I'm suggesting he's... He's saying... I'm suggesting that he's saying you're supposed to be a bodhisattva.

That's what this book is about. It's the guide to a bodhisattva's life. You're supposed to be the bodhisattva.

Now, how do you really want to relate to people who are lower than you? Well, let's switch and see how it feels. Oh, you want them to put you up.

You want them to pay for your air-pipes. You want them to work for you. You want them to go hungry, run around and get their breakfast while you eat.

It's just jealousy. That's what you expect out of people. That's how you want your students to relate to you as a higher person.

Get it?

[Говорящий 2]
It's hard.

[Говорящий 1]
Yeah. Yeah. Oh, absolutely.

Yeah. Your own weaknesses.

[Говорящий 2]
Absolutely.

[Говорящий 1]
Absolutely. It's just how it feels. And you're in a group of people and they all look like younger and they're not going to get it.

You can say, look, we should be lower. Other people should be put up higher. We should eat less.

They should have less to eat. We should run around for them, do the directions. We should sit home and plan grand ventures.

You know what I mean? Like, that's how it is. Your lama is a normal person.

That's there. Your lama is also a tantric deity. That's there.

Is it a pen or a shiitai? You see, both levels are there. Which one do you want to do that?

It's very interesting. Emptiness means all those levels are there. Which one do you want to learn that?

Very interesting.

[Говорящий 2]
Okay? Go ahead. Yeah.

[Говорящий 1]
Yeah. Yeah, I understand. I like that.

Did you get it? I have another statement to make about that. Why did he do equalizing first and exchanging second?

It seems to me like you would get to the first by doing the second. You see? Let me tell you one more thing.

By exploring your own screwed up mind, you would come to a place where you could be equal to other people. You could treat other people equally. If you really understood how twisted your mind is when you get up and teach ACI courses, then hopefully you could overcome those states of mind and treat people truly equally.

You know, I'm almost like he tells you to be equal, then he tells you if there's change to see how unequal you are so you can truly be equal. I suggest one more step. I like your thinking.

Explore in your next two months meditation. This is supposed to happen first.

[Говорящий 2]
That's the kind of mantra I said, equal first. Yeah. Cool.

Okay. So anyway, those are... Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. There's a lot messing up.

[Говорящий 1]
Yeah. It's up to you. You have to fill your studio.

I agree. New York has an edge. New York has an edge.

We saw... We saw... We were tasked by a storage unit on the FDR. There's this huge sign, and there was a very expensive woman's high-heeled shoe there. And it said, my owner is in her combat boots men are bastards state. Meaning that the high-heeled shoe has to stay in the storage for now. Nowhere in the United States could you have that sign.

Hundred feet high. It's only in New York, you see. Yeah.

Yeah, I agree. And most of the people are in a position where they might... We call it rising to new levels of hypocrisy.

As you learn more and more Dharma, and you get higher and higher up in the Dharma hierarchy, and you have to teach things that you obviously can't practice, you know, you go to higher levels of, like... It becomes more and more evident that we can't do it, you know? So anyway...

We have squabbles in the car, and John Brady is like... Okay. 143.

I just couldn't do that.

[Говорящий 2]
Mark, are you up?

[Говорящий 1]
This one's getting more clear, and the punchline's about to come, which is why I'm giving you the dark interpretation. Here we go. What's the use of having no good quality?

Your students are looking up to you. The shining light. You know, the bodhisattva.

You know, they come to your class. They come to two or three classes. They still haven't seen you pick your nose or get angry.

And you're like, man, this is it. You know, my whole life I never met a real... You know, here it is, finally.

I had somebody write that to me, right? We were forlorn, looking for the saints, you know, and then later, oh, man. So, you know, like...

I mean, people want to meet a saint, you know? And the reason they do or don't is their own karma, right? But that's another point.

But, you know, at the beginning you look like this shining example. So, wow. Why shouldn't I have his or her good quality?

Why shouldn't I be like Nancy Perry? I'm going to do it. I can do it.

You know, this is a student, ACI student in their first class. Look at this wonderful lady. I can do that.

We'll strive that they have them all. Meaning, I'll get these good qualities, and then I'll teach every living being to have these qualities. So, they is everybody.

Them all is good quality. I'm going to work hard, and I'll become a bodhisattva, and then everybody will follow me, and everybody will have the good qualities that Nancy Cairn has. That's their attitude.

Then, in between this and the second half of the verse, comes a doubt in the student's mind. Gee, how could I ever reach Nancy Cairnhood? How could a schmuck like me ever get that amazing?

You know, there's a doubt. They get a, what do you call it? They feel disgraced.

They feel like, oh, I could never do it. Then there's a, like Master Shantideva or somebody says, Look, there's people who are a lot worse than you. Okay?

There do exist those to whom, this one meaning me, the student. Okay, this one is me, the student. This one is me, the student.

Oh, I shouldn't be so discouraged. Because there are people worse than me. There's people who didn't get to an API test.

And I'm not so bad. At least I made it in the past. I got the karma to do this.

I got the karma to hear this stuff, even though I can't do it. And there's people on the streets who are just going to die never having heard any other option. There will be people like that.

I'm not so bad. Okay? And, there are also those compared to whom we're highest.

Meaning, Fine. I blew that. Disgusting.

Fine. I got it reversed, okay? And you'll do it too.

Believe me. This one is Nantikan. This one is the bodhisattva.

You're the student. You're looking at your teacher. And you say, Look, this Buddha, there's people who are even higher than this bodhisattva.

[Говорящий 2]
Okay?

[Говорящий 1]
Everybody... She's not discouraged. There's people who are a lot higher than her.

And she doesn't give up. Got it?

[Говорящий 2]
Okay?

[Говорящий 1]
So, there's a big range of people. Spiritual people. There's Dalai Lama.

There's Buddhas. There's Ken Rinpoche. Nantikan is great, but even she's got a ways to go.

This one meaning, the person whom you're practicing jealousy towards. The person higher than you. Your teacher.

[Говорящий 2]
Or whoever it is.

[Говорящий 1]
Then, Oh, and there's also those compared to whom we are highest. Meaning, there's lots of schmucks around New York that never made it to an ACA class. Got it?

So, don't feel so bad. Nantikan's not all the way either. She's got ways to go.

She doesn't give up. And compared to me, there's people who are even worse. There's people who didn't even have a chance to be hypocrites.

Because they never heard this stuff. Got it? Oh, it's getting quieter and quieter.

You all right? Are we all right? Got it.

Okay, here we go. By the way, Delta J says, So, I don't have to be hypocrite. If I kick butt, I can get enlightened.

Oh, don't forget you're the student here. You're Nantikan's student. This one means Nantikan.

Got it? You'll get confused, I swear. It's fine.

It's fine. Okay? You are Nantikan.

You're putting yourself in your student's body. Now you're looking at Nantikan again. And you're discouraged because you say, How could I ever be as good as her?

And then Shantideva says, Look, there's people a lot better than her. She's even got where to go. And there's people a lot worse than you.

So, don't get discouraged. You'll make it okay. You'll be okay.

And it's like there's huge gaps between people in the world. I mean, some of the teachers, the Dalai Lama doesn't have anyone that... The thing about seeing him with Archbishop Tutu was you got some feeling that he had a peer.

He was around someone that he could actually talk to as an equal. And I remember, I was with Ten Rinpoche for like 15 years. And then Lapi Rinpoche came.

And Tsong Rinpoche came. These are high, high, high Lamas. And they went out on the porch and talked for 10 hours straight.

And then I thought, Man, he must be lonely for the last 15 years. He's got me and Art Engel to talk to. You know?

No, he's got nobody on his level to talk to. There are such levels in the world. There are people thousands, millions of lifetimes ahead of us.

And there are people on the street, too. There are millions of lifetimes behind you. Why get discouraged?

I mean, you're really good doing good. You know? And even really good people have a long way to go.

We're all like... We can be millions of years of development apart. It's kind of awesome.

Don't get discouraged. You're doing good. You're like halfway there.

And there's people a million years ahead and there's people a million years behind. So, don't feel so... Those ahead of you in this lifetime are also a million years behind.

Don't get... Don't get nervous. Everyone's got a race to go.

And we're doing pretty good. Like that. Yes.

Wait till you get to punchline and then I think... I think the next... Oh, he's setting you up, okay?

He's setting you up. Okay. Do two more verses and then ask me.

Uh... You ready? Verse, uh...

144. All right. Cool.

He's starting to set up for the punchline, okay? He's starting to set up for the punchline. Um...

The state of our morality brews troubles and the rest is sports. Okay. What does he mean?

Who are we right now? Who are we right now? We're ethical students.

[Говорящий 2]
Okay.

[Говорящий 1]
What's the state of our morality? We can't keep it. We're not.

We're bad at it. We didn't do our book today. View is even worse.

View is... Do you get that everything in the world is happening because of what you do to others? Do you get it?

Do you have worldview? That's the name of our whole organization. Why do we call it worldview?

This is the root of all things. Do you get that? You got everything.

Your life is coming from whether you took care of somebody else this morning or not. That's it.

[Говорящий 2]
Okay.

[Говорящий 1]
So, they're saying my morality is bad, I don't keep my book well. Two, I have lousy worldview. I fight with people.

Why? Because I don't get it that I made them because I fought with them yesterday. My morality stinks, my worldview stinks.

Okay? What else stinks? I have troubles.

I have troubles. Gyatso je su so e gu, so e gu che. It means, I got life troubles.

I can't make enough money, things don't work out, my job stinks, my family is in a mess, my wife is angry at me, my kids don't listen to me. Troubles means that, okay? I got plain old world life troubles.

So, where are we at? Can't keep our morality. Don't have good worldview.

Our life is a wreck. Now, the question is, what can we do about it? I can't do anything.

It's forced by affliction. I can't control myself. Is there any hope for me?

No. I can't control my anger. I can't control my desires.

You know? It's not that I want to be like this. Okay?

Who are we? Who's saying this? You're a Nancy Karam student, and you're saying this.

Who are we, really? Nancy Karam. When Nancy Karam's thinking how Nancy Karam's students are thinking, when they look at her and aspire to her high qualities that they've just been encouraged that they could get, got it?

The last verse is what? Oh, don't think you're smart, you can make it. There's people better than her, and there's people worse than her.

Now, this verse says, they're talking now. You know, I just can't control myself. My life is worse, my morality is worse, my Buddhism is worse.

Why? I can't control it. Not by choice.

It's not that I want to be like this. I've just got these mental afflictions pushing me around.

[Говорящий 2]
Okay?

[Говорящий 1]
This is what Nancy Karam's students do. Ready? Now for the second half of the verse, which is a totally different section in Dr. Gray's outline.

[Говорящий 2]
You've got to help us.

[Говорящий 1]
You've got to take care of us. Here's where the punchline starts getting set up. By the next verse, you'll see that the dark interpretation is probably the right one, okay?

You've got to help us. Who's talking to whom? Nancy Karam's students are talking to Nancy.

Yeah, yeah. And you're saying, look, I know I'm defective. Could you help me?

You're Nancy Karam as a student talking to Nancy Karam as a student. Couldn't you, like, help me out a bit? Teach me, lead me, guide me, be an inspiration for me.

And we'll do whatever it takes. You know? Even if it hurts.

Help us. Okay? This part is about help us.

You're still Nancy Karam's students. You be our glowing light, our shining light. We'll follow your example.

And if we've got to cut ourselves or stay in the desert for three years or whatever, we're ready to do it. You just lead us on. Okay?

Got it?

[Говорящий 2]
All right.

[Говорящий 1]
Something happens now. They come to their second ACI class. They see how much of a bodhisattva you really are.

They start to get to know you. They see you fight in the car with your holy consort. You know, they see you pick your nose.

They see you, how much you really know about the car. Okay? Something happens between this and the next book.

And here you are. Who gets to do the depressing one? Michael, you're cheerful.

You do it. Ha ha ha ha. The student suddenly sees who you really are.

I thought you wanted to help me. I thought you were here to help me. Why do you talk bad about me?

Why do you put me down? I thought you were supposed to help me. Now you're, now you're like competing with me.

You feel like trapped by me. So, so who wants to be like you? Okay, got it?

This is where the darkness hits. This is what's setting you up for this. The student, Nancy Cairns, suddenly sees what Nancy Cairns' mind is really like.

I'm just using you as an example. Sorry. I can use me.

I can use me, but it's too obvious. Okay? And they're like, it dawns on them, you're teaching because you want to look good.

You're teaching because you want to look smart. If they ever started to get good at what you're teaching them, you'd feel threatened, and you'd start, you'd start putting them down. Okay?

Do you really want them to see emptiness before you, or something like that, you know? Or do you enjoy being the teacher? It's easy.

It's like a moment of revelation for them. They just met the real you. And they're like, oh, you really have good qualities.

You're a real spiritual being. Okay? The whole thing is like a very sad realization on their part of the nature of your mind.

Gyatso Je says, if bodhisattva's qualities are the ones you exhibit, I don't want them. This is a student looking at me. Where are you now?

Which mind are you in now? It's weird. It's weird, right?

You're almost in both, aren't you? Like, your messed up mind is in Nancy Karen's mind. And you're the student, but you're also the student looking at her.

Okay, get it? It's very confusing. Got it?

You're you and other people in your student's mind looking at you, but with your screwed up mind. And they're you in the student's mind who say, who wants to be like you? In the last verse they're like, oh, you're my shining light.

I want to be like you. This verse is like, oh man, I just got a glimpse into your state of mind. I don't want to be like you.

Okay? Yeah, I could be. Yeah, you are.

This is the exchange of self-awareness. And who's got you there, right? Who's got your exchange?

You can't even figure out who you are. Right? You know, like, it gets confusing.

When Rinpoche taught this, you know, in Pidgin English in 1975 or something, we're all like, you know, and, and, no, I mean, hard, it's really hard. Okay, got it?

[Говорящий 2]
Got it?

[Говорящий 1]
We're not going to have a break again, okay? Because we're on a roll, we might as well do it, okay? Oh, sorry.

Who's Tantra is? Oh, Tantra. Venerable Tantra.

Okay, moment of truth. They're like, this guy's headed for the hell realms. He's not a bodhisattva.

This guy's headed for the hell realms. He's got, he's used that twice. Do you remember?

Do you remember where he used in the jaws of in this book before? I dimly remember, okay? It was, oh, if you don't have moment-to-moment samadhi, your head is in the jaws of mental symptoms.

[Говорящий 2]
You know?

[Говорящий 1]
You're, you're, I call it a fire hazard. If you don't do your book, if you don't do your morning practice, if you don't do your morning yoga, you're a fire hazard. You're a walking fire hazard.

You know? Something's going to blow up. You're going to screw up.

If you're not, like, if you do yoga, if you didn't do your meditation, if you're not doing your book, you're just a walking fire bomb. Sooner or later, you're going to screw up today. You can't trust you.

It shouldn't be around you. So, it's like, it's like, this person, anyway, here, he's in the savage jaws. Karnapa means, his head is in the lion's mouth.

This bodhisattva, this one who is so higher than me, this one who is such an inspiration for me, who I just figured out, who is teaching out a pure desire to be powerful, and to be a big shot, he's about to go the whole long route. Who wants to be like that? Okay?

That concludes the exchange of self and other at the first level. Jealousy? But, you see, can you call it jealousy?

I don't know. You see? It's very weird.

And maybe that's why the Tibetan translator threw in that jealousy competitiveness. Maybe it's not. But, they just figured out that your real motivation is to look good.

This student just figured out that your real motivation is to look good. They went through this process of, oh, I should serve you. I should take care of you.

You're so wonderful. I want to be like you. And then by the end, they're like, God, I don't want to be like you.

You're about to go the hell route. What kind of bodhisattva are you? Okay?

It's been a very depressing, dark trip.

[Говорящий 2]
Okay?

[Говорящий 1]
It's not at all like, put yourself in Dilma's seat. It's hot in here. She'd like to have some refreshments.

She wishes you were here on time. She'd like to get out on five because she has to call somebody and get to dinner and do some other stuff. It's not like that at all, is it?

It's like, you put your head into the head of the people that you're teaching Buddhism to, and you see how it feels to be them. It's very disappointing. Okay?

Got it? It's very dark. By this time you get to this.

That's the punchline, okay? It's the depressing punchline. Now, how you present it, I don't know.

It's up to you. Probably the class before will be more along the lines of exchange me and Dilma and think about tea. Okay?

But you get stuck with the dark class. So, so far you got the really hard class, number two, and you got number four, which is not easy. Now you got the dark class, okay?

Maybe you can cut this verse out, tear it out of the notebooks if you want. Up here. Okay.

This is the one where it becomes obvious, right? I think if you read this one, you see you've got to go back and the rest has to be dark. It says, we have now concluded the exercise in jealousy.

That concludes the exercise in jealousy. What's the next exercise? Competitiveness.

How do you feel about other ACI teachers? How do you feel about the Geshe Kelsang Gyatso's New Kadampa group, which has centers springing up everywhere, huge temples being built in Paris and New York State, and teaching excellent Dharma everywhere? How does that strike you?

You know? Okay? Okay?

How do you feel about that? I get jealous. I get jealous.

Then I have to go through all these long trips to apologize to people, you know, and confess to people. Yeah, I do, and it's very sick, okay? It's very bad, okay?

In fact, there should only be one cancer doctor in New York, you know. I should be the only cancer doctor in New York. Come on, I'm so sick, you know.

There should be lots of cancer doctors. There should be all kinds of specialists and different treatments that can help. Okay, anyway, we're going to explore now this six-day month.

One of the great things about the yoga tour was that we forced everybody to stay in their room until 1 p.m. So you could sleep, you could watch TV, but you had to stay in your room, and you couldn't talk. You know, you couldn't say you didn't have time to do your practice. And we didn't allow any activities before 1 o'clock.

We didn't travel before 1 o'clock. You had to do your thing before 1 o'clock. And I can say that in this tour, one of the brilliant things was there were 12 people teaching, and they were perfect.

They got really, really good at it. The last day, we were in Tucson. We got word that Rebecca was in the hospital.

She was kidney-strained. We rushed to the hospital. We're all sitting there in the ER waiting room, and on the radio comes an interview with four of the junior members of the tour, one of whom is only 16, that I didn't even know about.

And I'm sitting there in the emergency room listening to this interview on the radio about the Hatha Yoga on the Tucson radio. And it was extraordinary. I mean, these people got really good at it, and then they were going ...

We would get like five bars of noodles in one day. Just 12 people, just 12. And it was so beautiful.

And the cool thing was, I think because they were practicing, they were all really excited about each other. They were like, Man, you gave a perfect talk. That thing you said about the heart chakra, I'm going to steal that for my next talk.

And the guy said, No, but your talk was so cool last week. And there was this really, really fine energy. There was this really encouraging energy going on.

I think it won my jealousy. You know, it's really nice. It's really helpful.

I think because everybody was not a fire hydrant, because they were doing their practice. Okay. I don't think there's a lot that needs to be said about the next two sessions, but we'll go through them.

You know, got it? That's easy, right? Ah, very good question.

You're in your peer's head, but you have your mental friction.

[Говорящий 2]
Okay?

[Говорящий 1]
Would you really want all the people around you to think like you think? Your life would be unbearable. If all the people around you were as mentally disturbed as you are, your life would be very uncomfortable.

I think the second. Okay? Like, I'm your peer, and I'm now treating you the way you treat me all the time.

It's just basically you're being treated the way you treat others. You're being thought of the way you think of others, who are equal to you. Mainly people at work, people on your same level.

Other ITI teachers. Do you... Let's put it this way.

I took religion at Princeton, right? And the one thing I remember, not myself, what would happen if your religious belief spread throughout the whole world? What would happen if the way you think was the way everybody thought?

That's the test of a religious belief. So, what would happen if everybody in the world acted the way you do? About their peers.

How would the world be? Oh God, it'd be a big mess. It'd be like 5 billion jealous people.

5 billion competing people. They shouldn't have a Dharma center. They shouldn't be bigger than ours.

They shouldn't have more students than ours. They shouldn't have more sponsors than ours. They shouldn't have big crowds coming to their thing and nobody coming to us.

You see? You see? Do you really want everybody to think the way you think?

Are you that confident about the purity of your mind? You see? What would happen if the whole world thought like you?

Here's how it would be. How? Oh, now you're equal, right?

I should get more offerings and respect, even if I have to fight for them. Even if I have to fight for them. I should get more.

By the way, offerings and respect are the two things that monks in India were after. And monks in Tibet. I mean, it's called the ngey kulti.

Ngey means material offerings that you get from your students and your sponsors. Bhula, air tickets, nice dinners, a place to stay in Central Park, penthouse. Those are ngey.

Okay? Like, stuff you could get out of your students and your sponsors. And then kulti is like that they love you, that they respect you, that they bow down to you, that they show deference, you know?

Treat you like a big person. These were the two things that all spiritual teachers, especially in Nalanda monastery, had to watch out for. And that becomes a thing, right?

It becomes a thing. And that's why it's not good to mix money and dharma. If you can teach your students good, if you don't have to buy places, it's good.

If you don't have to teach places, it's good. You know, the fact that the dharma, most of what we do has been happening in people's living rooms, for free, is, I think, a very wonderful thing. You don't have a central NTI government to speak of.

I mean, you don't have, worldview is like, I call it a coalition. If you want to come to Tucson, talk about what you're doing, fine. As long as you keep doing what you're doing, do it.

We'll give you the materials, we'll give you the stuff, there's no copyright. You know, but it can degenerate into competition for sponsors, students, money, you know, fame, influence. You know, and then you get, like, sex, and then you get big competing images, you know.

[Говорящий 2]
You see, you have to look at it.

[Говорящий 1]
You have to try. Until I have more than him, I should get more. I should have more.

This is your fellow ACI teacher thinking about you the way you think about them, got it? Uncomfortable exchange, isn't it? Okay, got it?

It's different from I'm going to be Vilma and give her a cup of tea because I know I'm thirsty. Got it? You see?

This is a dark exchange. Okay? All right.

You should write another book about a lighter exchange, I don't know. Good, nice, nice.

[Говорящий 2]
Okay?

[Говорящий 1]
Oh, you know, my, how good I meditate, how long retreat I did, how my Tibetan is, everybody should hear about it. And in her qualities, nobody should hear about it. Whatever achievements she has spiritually, no one should hear about them.

Okay? That's pretty clear, right? It's me looking at my fellow ACI teacher with my mental afflictions.

[Говорящий 2]
Okay?

[Говорящий 1]
So, who is the he? The bodhisattva. We call it the bodhisattva.

We always call it the bodhisattva or the living being, samsara or samsara. It's still there. Now, now it's your fellow teachers looking at you.

So, they're looking at the bodhisattva which means the apprentice bodhisattva, which is you. The other, your fellow teachers are looking at you now but with your mental afflictions. Our fellow teachers, because we're on to competitiveness between equals.

Got it? You okay? Not very pleasant experience.

And the idea is to shock you. The idea is to allow you to see how how twisted your own mind is. And thank goodness everybody else is not like us.

The world would be terrible. Okay? By the way, I mean, this low self-esteem thing, we're done, okay?

We'll stop there, but there's this low self-esteem thing in America, like, people already feel bad enough about themselves. And these instructions, I think, are for people who are rather strong mentally, healthy mentally, and, you know, you might want to soften it. You might want to go the first way, right?

The gentler way. That's up to you. You see.

Well, I'm just saying, you judge your students. I don't do it much myself. I just give them the bad news and hit them on the head.

But, see how it goes. See how it goes. You know, if there's someone in your group who's already thinks they're the worst person in the world, you might want to say, oh, this is, you know, leave them on an inspiring note and not on a you're mentally ill note.

[Говорящий 2]
Okay?

[Говорящий 1]
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You have to judge your You have to judge your students and you have to be flexible. If you sense that...

Oh, I'll just give you an example. In the tour, in the yoga tour, we had a choice. We could get up and say, you've been doing yoga wrong for your whole life.

You're doing ekanga and not ashtanga. You're doing only one of the eight limbs of yoga and not all eight. You're just doing the asanas.

You never even heard the other seven. We could get up and say that and it would be true. And we did that once or twice and the reaction wasn't like exciting.

No, it wasn't like everybody left with a new inspiration. Then we got up, I don't know, one day I was mentioning to a group that one of our lamas, one of the lamas who taught us Tibetan secret practices, yoga practices, said that the fact that 20 million Americans are doing yoga illegally without 20 years of Geshe course before that is wonderful. And I'm like, huh?

And they said, these 20 million people have been yogis in their past lives. They have been high tantric practitioners in their past lives. And they are just remembering what they used to do.

And they are almost enlightened. Their whole country is the focus of some extraordinary event. You don't even know what's going on in your country.

I said, they don't know anything. They are not like high yogis. They just want to get skinnier.

They are like, no, no, no. These seeds are coming up from their past lives. They have been through tantra.

They have been high tantric practitioners. They are on the verge of enlightenment. 20 million people in your country.

This is no accident. This is no like joking thing. This is a high spiritual event that is about to take place in your country.

You have to ride that energy. You have to harness that energy. You have to get them to understand, to remember what they were doing, you see.

And that's why we did the tour. Then when you talk like that, everybody in the room is like, yeah, you know, like, you know, yeah. Let me get back on track where I was last night, you know.

I was a Geshe. I was a Tantrika. I was a yogi.

I was about to reach enlightenment. And this recognition came out of people. It wasn't just like some kind of false pride.

It was like recognition of who they must have been. And to lead people with that was a lot better. The result of that was like, you know, people would rush up afterwards and say, okay, what do I do next, you know.

And you'd say, oh, go study with... Then whoever ICI teacher was sitting there from Houston or Williamsburg or Gainesville or Boston, it was really cool. You'd say, go talk to Nancy Tan, you know.

And then there were these classes just spun up everywhere. It was really cool. Well, I personally think you should end a class like that.

Like, depress them in the middle. And then at the end, you know, leave them with some kind of, you know, you're about to do it, you know. Dinner break?

Get me some questions ready. Okay? And then we'll come back.

The last one is kind of happy, okay? You get to do class nine, which is sort of a happy class. So don't think you just have to get people depressed.

All right.