ACI 8 «Смерть и сферы существования», занятие 11

Class Eleven: Course Review
Transcribed: Karen Becker

Today's review for the final. The final questions are all taken
from the quiz questions; the quiz questions are all taken from
the homework questions, and the idea of the final is it's it's
not to trick you or anything like that. It's it's what I
consider to be the most important items and that...these are the
things that I think you should leave the class with, that should
go beyond the front door. Aft after you finish your Geshe degree
in the monastery, you you normally forget everything after about
two years, all the root texts. But you may...you retain a
certain amount of, always, and what I've tried to do was figure
out what I think people retain, and and I think these are the
things that are most important that that you should retain. So,
I'm gonna go over some possible questions on the final, all
right, and the way I do it is just go around the room and let
people take a shot...I I know you're not prepared and don't feel
embarrassed, we just, we it's more like a discussion than a than
a trying to embarrass anybody okay...we we'll embarrass Kuntsog
twice (laughter). What's the main text that we use for studying
the realms of existence?

(students: (unclear) (laughter) (chu lam ba dze)

(b:Chu lam ba dze, Abhidharmakosha by?)

(student: Loppon Yik-nyen)

Loppon Yik-nyen, Vasubandu, 350 a.d., and it's lucky. I don't
think (b: Abhidharma)'s much taught in this country. There's a
couple of books called (b: Abhidharma) that don't have anything
to do with (b:Abhidharma) (laughs) and that's another thing.
Okay, number 2...I don't know, Emilio, let's see...try to divide
the desire realm into twenty parts.

(student: There's...I'm not sure, I think there's (unclear)

Remember, ten good and ten bad. Ten and ten. Ten higher realms
and ten lower realms...that's how you get ten.

(student: Eight hells)

Yeah.

(student: Preta realm)

Yeah.

(student: Animal realm)

Yeah. that's ten. Ten lower realms.

(student: Then there's the human realm)

Yeah.

(student: So there's a total of twelve (unclear)

How many continents?

(students: Four)

Humans live on this one continent and then six god realms. So

(student: (Altogether unclear))

Ten better ones. And then the demi gods they just throw into the
god (unclear), ten and ten, so that's the that's the more normal,
 and when you're doing Buddhist geography that the total...of,
for the desire realm. Margie, why does the form realm have four
levels and seventeen different sections? This is just a general
answer, okay?
It's not...I mean I could try to...I, my Lama made me do all of
them, seventeen and, you know, I, you forget those in about a
week, so, you, how do you get that many?

(student, Margie: Three levels of three and four levels of
eight)
Three levels of three and one level of eight. The fourth level
has eight.

(student, Margie, okay)

But but why are there ten, that's the main thing. Why does the
form realm have seventeen different sections and four different
levels, what made it that way?

(student: The levels of meditation engaged in in the life)

Yeah, the, those are

(student: causal)

Yeah, the form realm is a result and then the causes for the form
realm are the meditations in this life, and those meditations
have four basic levels and seventeen different details, so
there's basically seventeen different kinds of causal form realm
meditation that you engage in in this life and then after you die
you're born into the form realm in one of those corresponding
seventeen sections.

(student: Four sumdens (unclear))

It's four sumdens, the first three have three each and the fourth
one has eight, so that makes seventeen. The formless realm...I I
messed up in one of the classes and I don't know if it was yours
or not, but just to make sure you know the names, what, you know
the four realms, I mean the four formless realms going up, right,
what's the first one?

(students: (unclear) The formless realms?)

Yeah, I'm talking formless now.

(student: Okay)

And they were, (Namka taye, namshe taye), what's the third one?
(student: Chiyang me)

(Chiyang me). And what was the fourth one?

(students: Si-tse)

Yeah, peak of existence. These are the resulting formless
realms, okay. The resulting formless realms. And the
meditations that you do to get there...I think I messed it up on
the notes, I'm not sure...so this is the result...these are the
results and these are the causes, the causes. For (nam ka ta ye)
it's what?

(student: Nam ke ta ye)

It's (nam ke ta ye) okay, (laughs) it's the same thing, okay,
same. The name of the meditation is the same as the name of the
realm you're gonna be born into, okay. How about (nam she ta
ye)?

(student: Nam she ta ye.)

Same. Okay. I just think I messed up one (unclear). How about
(chiyang me)?

(student: Chiyang me)

(Chiyang me), (laughter) Now who's gonna make a fool of themself?
 (Se-tse)? Now this one changes. (laughter)

(student: So those are the names of meditations?)

Yeah, these are the causal meditations in this life, the names of
the four meditations, (unclear) the four mental states that you
get into, very very very subtle mental mental states and and if
you stay in those a lot during this life, after you die you go to
those four levels of the formless realm.

(student: How does that last meditation translate in English?)
Yeah, that's a good question, okay (laughs) it's tricky. (Du
she) means what? (Du she) means to to...people mistranslate it a
lot, people say "conceptions" and I don't know, it has that
meaning in some cases, but as as a mental function it means "the
ability to discriminate". (Du she) means "the ability to
discriminate". This is good, this is bad, this is high, this is
low, this is hot this is cold. (Du she mei) means what?

(students: nothing)

Nothing. And what it means is there is no mind in the universe
which which can completely have no (du she). In other words, any
mind in the universe from an amoeba up to a Buddha has (du she).
All all living creatures including Buddhas are making
distinctions. But at this point it's so so low, it's at such a
low capacity, in other words, the person's like on LS...heroin or
something, totally blissed out, almost incapable of saying "this
is left, this is right, this is up, this is down, this is good,
this is bad", just a totally totally buzzed out state and and you
could say they almost reached...almost, you have to say, reached
a state where they're no longer making any discriminations at
all. But they're also (du she mei ne) which is means what?

(students: Not, non (unclear))

Yeah, they are almost mindless and they are almost not mindless,
okay? I mean, it's a it's just a it's a trick word to to
indicate how how spaced out they are, is...and and is it a good
thing?

(student: No.)

No, I mean, the scriptures say this is the peak of cyclic
existence. This is the peak. (Si tse) means "the peak" of
suffering, and and many scriptures say it's the same thing
whether you're here in this incredibly buzzed out, you know,
equaniminous state like like some kind of a drugged out thing
that lasts for millions of years, or or hung over a pot of molten
steel in the lowest hell upside down on a chain, being dropped
in, you know, they say, same thing. They say it doesn't really
matter. They're both the same. Essentially the same thing.
They're both the same kind of suffering. So it's not...and this
is what a lot of Buddhist tea...schools have been corrupted into
I think. I think a lot of Buddhist schools have been corrupted
into teaching, you know, just get into a mindless state and stay
there and everything will be nice and, you know, that'll somehow
help you reach something. And it's a big mistake. And it's not,
it's not a mis...it's a mistake that Vasubandu realized, you
know, two millenium ago (laughs) so it's not like the Tibetans
made it up. This is...the Buddha himself described these states
and Vasubandu took it from the sutras. So you could call it "the
state of no discrimination and not-no discrimination". It's just
means a very buzzed out state, all right, as a causal meditation
leading in the next life to (si tse) which it means the "peak of
cyclic existence". I I think I reversed it when I first taught
it the first day. I think I put this down here. (unclear)

(student: The the cause for birth in the form realm, that's
meditation also?)

Yeah.

(student: Oh (unclear) different meditation?)

It's the four (sumdens). It's called "the four (sumdens)".
(Sumden dumbo, sumden nimo, sumden jinmo, sumden shimo)...they're
just called number one, number two, number three, number
four...they don't have separate names. The resulting ones have
separate names.

(student: And these are practices that went on back then)

Yeah and you'd have to learn

(student: and they and they would know, all right, I'm gonna do
this? with the intention to)

Well, they...these were taught in
maybe non-Buddhist schools in those days, and did they intend to
get that, I don't think they understood where they would go, or
maybe some of them thought that was nirvana, or heaven (unclear),
you know, it sounds like heaven, it's a lot like heaven, but it
doesn't last, you know. It wears out. So, but you do have to
have the capacity, as we've said many times, to get up to the
first (sumden) in this life, you know, in order to see emptiness
directly. You can not see emptiness directly in a desire realm
state of mind, it's impossible. Your mind, what we call shamata
or ultimate level of of meditation that's required to see
emptiness, your mind actually has to be in another realm. Your
concentration has to be above the desire...out of the desire
realm. Your body is still here, and it's not very far,
it's...you don't even have to get into the the main part of the
first (sumden) you just have to get into the preliminary first
(sumden). Yeah

(student: So this information then would have been transmitted to
 somebody by a Buddha in that person in a meditational state?)

That that this was going to happen or something?

(student: yeah, that this does happen given these causes?)

They have these things called the "five eyes" and if you meditate
to a certain level you can see these relationships. It's it's
called five kinds of clairvoyance. And you can see them,
that's...but also the Buddhas describes them in sutras. All
right. Well, Sidney, this is a tough question, okay? Sorry
(laughs). Basically why are all these realms possible, according
to the highest school of Buddhism, you know, why why for example
is hell possible, did...how how did hell get there, did somebody
go down below the ground and with their construction company, and
build these chambers and all these...they have gas lines going
down there and (laughter) burning the places...and who made hell,
where did it come from? What makes hell? Ul ultimately, yeah,
ultimately it's a projection forced on you by your what?

(student: your past karma)
By your own past karma, okay. So it's in, you can say in a sense
that it's not outside of your own mind, okay, in one very
important sense it's not outside of your own mind, which means to
get there it's not difficult. Is it a psychological thing like
having a bad day? No. I mean, some some teachers have tried to
say that...it's not correct. I mean it's not like just having a
lousy day and everything looks bad. It's not a psychological
coloring of your perceptions. It's a determination of your whole
world by your projections and there's a big difference. It's not
just things look bad because you're having a bad day. It's that
what you see is determined by your mind's karma, and you and you
have no choice to experience anything else, and you and you do.
It's only a projection but it hurts. So that and that's how it
can happen and that's how you can go there.

(student: So you're saying there's no physical hell? Is that
what you said?)

It's a big debate, but (laughs). There is a...you will
experience it as physical, but what makes you experience it is
your own karma.

(student: So in other words, there's no physical hell.)

It it'll be as hard as that (knocks on something). Yeah, but
doesn't exist outside of your own mind, independently. That's
what inherent existence means. And it doesn't exist that way.
It doesn't exist without your mind's participation. Cannot
exist. If your mind wasn't projecting it it doesn't exist.
Because your mind is projecting it, does it hurt any less? No.
It hurts exactly the way it hurts because your mind is projecting
it. So it...from the point of view whether it hurts or not,
whether it's bad or not, it doesn't matter whether it's the way
you always thought it was or whether my information to you is
correct. It's still going to hurt exactly the same. And you
will not be able to get out any sooner or easier by understanding
that. But you'll understand how to stop collecting the karma to
to make yourself see that, and that's, that's why understanding
hell is not inherently existent is important. If hell depends on
your own past deeds, then you can change...you don't have to go
there. If it was just there on it's own, it...this class would
be meaningless, 'cause you couldn't get out of it, (laughs) okay.

(student: Do you collect good good karma while you (unclear) or
do you just wear off)

You're just wearing off bad karma. There is an incident in hell,
like almost unprecidented where the Buddha was was a hell being.
He was being...he was tied up to a wagon by a hell god with a
like fifteen other people, beings and he was dragging this wagon
through the hell and he was being whipped and beaten from the
back, and he looked at, he looked to the side and he saw someone,
he saw the person next to him suffering and he he had this
moment's wish that he could take some of the suffering on himself
and then he disa...he disappeared from the hell, like that, you
know. There's some scriptures say that's his first moment of
bodhicitta. Other scriptures say it was the compassion that
comes just before Buddhahood.

(student: Created by long virtue, and you experience it, wow,
(unclear) here, I guess)

No. I mean you can...

(student: Does it have to be)

Someone can take you there. And there have been human beings
have been taken to the hell realm to see what it's like...if you
have some extraordinary karma, some extraordinary connection. In
fact, the wheel of life was painted twice and the second time it
was painted it was the result of one of the disciples of the
Buddha who who the Buddha took to hell, and and then when he came
back he said "paint this and make sure everybody puts it at the
door of their temple, for forever". You know, and that's that's
why we put it at the door of the temple. So you can observe it
now, you can't experience it now, because there's no pain in this
realm that's even close to the moment's pain in the hells.

(student: (unclear))
There's no pain in the human realm which is, which would
approximate one minute's pain in the in the hell realm. You
can't experience it as a human. You can observe it, but you
can't feel it. Okay. Let's see if there's anything cheery here.
 (laughter) (laughs) Gelee, you got a easy one. How is the
location of the formless realm determined...where is the formless
realm?

(student: Exactly where you'll die.)

Yeah. It's wherever you die. Wherever you die that your mind
enters the formless realm 'cause there's no other boundaries.
There's no form, so there's no place. Next, four ways of taking
birth? I forgot (unclear) (laughs)

(student: (unclear))

Four way of taking four ways of taking birth.

(student: From a womb.)

Womb, taking birth from a womb.

(student: Warmth and moisture.)

Warmth and moisture.

(student: From an egg.)

Egg.

(student: Miraculously.)

Miraculously. Okay, cool. I don't know if you were in all the
classes, but let's try this one. There's one general cause and
three specific causes that can make you be born as a preta, as a
craving spirit. You remember these?

(student: One is the ten misdeeds done to pretty large strength)
Yeah, medium.

(student: Medium, and)




I got the answers here so I'm better off than you (laughs).

(student: The other one is doing a lot of of disrespect for )

That was animal birth.

(student: That was animal birth? (unclear)

Well, think of, well think of what they're like. Think of
what...see you can kind of guess. Think of what they're like.
People ask me do you remember your past life, and I say no, but I
know I can guess, you know.

(student: How about they're very craving (unclear)

Since they're since they're they're so driven by possessiveness
and craving.

(student: Oh yeah, miser, miserly)
Yeah, yeah like possessiveness

(student: possessiveness)

(student: And another one, (unclear)

Jealousy.

(student: Jealousy)

Jealousy, and then failing to give the three kinds of giving,
which are, Andy?

(student, Andy: The three kinds of giving are; giving material
things, giving protection and giving Dharma.)

Yeah, cool. Okay. You guys must have learned something.
(laughs) (unclear) One general cause and two specific causes
for birth like an animal...you got one already, I think.

(student: Ten bad deeds, I mean committing the ten bad deeds in
a lesser way.)

Yeah.

(student: Disrespecting and breaking minor rules continually.)

Yeah, on a regular basis. Good. Cool. Next is next is the six
sufferings of a human realm and...a human or a god realm...and
I'll just ask you to give me one each, and and to me this
is...you know, they go through this thing of oh you have to get
old, you have to get sick and and since I'm not real old right
now and since I don't happen to be very ill right now, they, and
since I don't remember being born and death is hasn't come yet,
it's hard to for me personally to relate to those things, they
all see to be four things that are not very close to me.
Personally. But these six I can see are are are suffering for
everyone and that they they make the people in this room as
unhappy as the people in Bosnia or Lebanon or or wherever, Tibet,
you know, I I think if you think about these sufferings you will
come to see that there is as much suffering here in New York as
there is anywhere. And and that it's not an exaggeration, that
we really do suffer from these six things and that they are very
painful and that they ruin our lives, so we'll go through them
one by one. Ora you have the first one or?

(student, Ora. No certainty?)

Yeah, no certainty in what sense?

(student, Ora: (unclear) no certainty, especially when you're
gonna die (unclear)

Yeah, so so your interpersonal relationships, for example, are
are completely changeable. And in this life and in the following
life, so if you don't even have to accept the following life, in
this life, the person you've been closest to for a long time can
become your worst enemy. We see it very very often with divorces
for example that that the person whom you've pledged lifetime
cer...what was it...to love and to honor till life do us part, or
something, that you actually hate them worse than anyone within a
few years, you know, and and it's not uncommon, and then the
opposite happens, you have somebody that you...I mean, normally
when you go to a company to work or something or you join a class
there's like two or three people that immediately repel you
(laughs) and then after a while you get to know them and they
turn out to be your best friend in the class, and or something
like that, normally like if you're jealous of somebody then you
don't like them for a while but then they make friends with you
and then because they put you on their level you say, "oh this is
a great person" and you end up liking them or something. Jade
second one?

(student: How many changes? lung)

What was that...(ngepa mepa), then what...(ngom ngom mi shepa)
What was ngom mi she pa)?

(students: You're never satisfied.)
Never satisfied. Never satisfied. And there was a lesson there,
and you'd better write the whole lesson. What was the whole
lesson? There's like three steps to this logic, I mean, it's not
just never satisfied, that's too easy.

(student: The fact that what you have you're no longer happy
with it, or your attitude towards it changes, or it doesn't last
as the (unclear) should.

It's more profound. He he he describes something much more
nasty. Much more ironic. What was it?

(student: (unclear) satisfied.)

That's one, but but the trick...Tsongkapa goes like this, he
says, "look. You desire an object, you want something, and then
you go to get it and then if you're unlucky you get it (laughs)
(laughter) you you acquire that object, and now something is
supposed to happen at that point.

(student: You want more.)

But what's supposed to happen at that point?

(students: That it makes you happy.)

You're supposed to be happy. You're supposed to be contented.
Contentment means "you went after something, you acquired it and
it made you happy". And and if this whole chasing of objects
were real, then you would chase chase chase chase chase, catch
up, grab it, acquire it, take it home and then you'd just sit
down and enjoy it. And that would stop your desire. That's how
it's supposed to work. You're supposed to acquire it, and then
that stops your desire for it, and then you get a thing called
"contentment", but then he says the irony is the is that the
opposite happens. Each time you acquire something then not only
don't you get contented, it gives you more thirst, it makes you
more thirsty, so you better write that on the final (laughs)
okay? That's...Tsongkapa's noting that...I don't know what you
call that...there's a word in English, but it's the, it's just a
horrible condition, it's a terrible thing, it supp...it's a it's
a great irony...a paradox, that you're supposed to...when you
acquire something it's supposed to give you contentment and then
you don't have to want it any more, but instead you want
something else worse, and that's the way we are, and we'll, we're
always like that...with everything. What it means it's it looks
like one way and it turns out to be a disaster. I don't know,
anyway. Maria, number three.

(student, Maria: (Yang yang lu ndorwa)

Good, oh nice.

(student, Maria: Always discarding your body)

And there was a truth behind that one, there was an irony behind
that one, there was a story behind that one.

(student, Maria: Yes, you acquire bad karma by doing things that
you see aren't good for your body (unclear) which is what
(unclear)

Yes, perfect. That's perfect answer (laughs) okay? She said
this, she said, you know, the point of serving your body at the
expense of other people's bodies for some kind of unexplained
prejudice that we have for our own bodies, you do all these
things to protect and cherish your body adding nor the hungry and
unclothed people around you, and then, you're doing that to
protect something which you have to lose anyway. But in order to
do all that you have to commit bad deeds which are the only thing
that you do take with you. So it's this irony. You you can't
take with you what you've been fighting to protect and the
fighting gives you something that you must take with you. It's a
it's a it's a, it's a...I don't know, there's a word for that,
anyway, disaster, or something (laughter). Elizabeth, number
four? We're up to number four, I think. That's the easy one.

(student, Elizabeth: Yeah. After that one it's easy.)
Yeah.

(student, Elizabeth: You have to take rebirth again and again.)

Yeah, and I don't have much story for that. I mean, there...I
don't remember much stuff. You have to be reborn again and
again. For a westerner you can't accept it right away. You have



to study, and I don't think you can appreciate the repetitiveness
of it until you've lived longer (laughs).

(student: Just the repetition or just the fact that you
(unclear)?)

Well, I think here we go again through this same classic kind of
suffering, you know, something like that.

(student: I mean, I I don't know whether, I mean, Je Tsongkapa
meant that it (unclear) but, if I just look at the little kids
growing up it's so hard just cutting teeth, and learning to walk
and clunk your head a million times and it's not fun, it's very,
I mean, I I look at them and I go like, "oh my God, I don't want
to do that again". Don't know whether (unclear)

I think that and also

(student: There's no golden childhood.)

It's the other five sufferings too. I mean, just have...it's to
go through the other five sufferings, being born again means you
get the other five automatically.

(student: You have to be lucky to do that again, right?)

Yeah, yeah. (laughter) Very rare, very rare. (laughter) That's
true. Nancy Kieran, number five. No? Guess any of them? I
think it's one of the most striking ones, the number, the last
one is most...do you remember the last one? It's one of the most
striking sufferings that a human has.
(student: (unclear)

Yeah, (tol meipa)

(students: (unclear)

Yeah, number six is ultimately you have no companion. I mean we

(student: go alone)

we come in we come in alone, we have temporary laisons with
people, we we meet up with people for a while, and then we
separate, we're ripped apart by karma, so we we enjoy each
other's company for a while and then we have to leave each
other...always. And then you're on your own again, and and you
die alone. By definition you die alone. Somebody asked me and I
have to admit that if you have a good root Lama and you have the
proper relationship with your root Lama, I don't think you'd be
alone, but that's another story. Okay. That's that's a that's
that's a big exception, if you have the proper relationship I
don't think you would ever be alone after that. Okay. Scott.
What was number five the truth of being (unclear)?

(student, Scott: Some kind of high state of mind to a lower
state)

And and Je Tsongkapa also glossed...he gave a short story to
that, he said, "this number five"

(student: Something about the bardo being, something about the
(unclear)

No, that was number one. Je Tsongkapa says very briefly, and
I'll quote him directly. The point here is that any good thing
that ever happens here in this here in this circle of suffering
life eventually turns into some kind of problem. We did this
exercise last Friday night in class. I gave the class about five
minutes to think of any good thing in their lives, and then I
called on five or six people to give me...and then we examined
whether or not you have to lose it, and and you have to lose all
of them. There's no nice thing that ever happens to you in this
life that you don't have to...you have to lose them all. You
have no choice. You will lose every good things you have from
your friends to all possessions that you own to your own body,
your name, your face, your identity, you'll lose everything.
Every friend you have you'll lose.

(student: What what about the Dharma?)

You keep, well, that's a (shi wa jin su lu ta drimpa shin)

(student: You know (unclear) what about the Dharma practice you
did?)

(Shi way je su dumpa she karma lende chi she dun wa la, nyepa
tenbo nyeye (unclear) That's Je Tsongkapa says the only thing
that follows you is your your (bakchak) your karmic (bakchak) and
they are like your shadow, he says, they follow you like your
shadow, you can't run away from those. So those those you those
you possess. Yeah, those good karmas. Deep seated good karmas.
You possess. You you have them. But they also will wear out.

(student: (unclear)

Yeah

(student: something (unclear)

It's a long story, but in the me...yeah, you're right in the
sense that it doesn't really matter since you have to lose those
also. It's just saying that you get to take them past death.

(student: What (unclear)
It's a huge debate. Huge debate. Some people say you is only
the continuation of yourself, but you... that would take about a
year to discuss (laughs) (laughter), okay. But it's a good
point. You have to lose everything. There's no good thing you
can keep, period. So enjoy them while they last. There's no
even small pleasure...we were discussing toast the other night
(laughter) we decided you have to lose toast also. (laughter)
Somebody said your eyeballs, I said, no then you have to lose
your eyeballs too. You can't keep anything. There's no nice
thing you have that you're going to be able to...that's not gonna
turn lousy. There's no nice thing you have at all that's not
gonna turn into some kind of pain for you. (unclear) isn't there
any good part in here? Thubten Kunsog, describe the examples of
seeds for crops of grain...the...Vasubandu gives...he quotes
sutras and he gives two explanations of why the bardo probably
exists. And one is sort of a logical explanation and one is a
scriptural explanation. What's the logical one? It has to do
with those seeds. Explain the example of the grain.

(student: The grain of seed is like their birth before and the
sprouting is like the bardo and becoming a tree is like the next
birth.)

Right.

(student: So the...for something to get to another state it
needs a conveyance or something.)

There has to be an intermediate state. You can't go from seed
to...you can't go from acorn to full grown oak tree without
something in between, it doesn't exist. You can't go to a fully
completed being from the being at death without some kind of
intermediate state. But he says specifically what? (Chim
jambyan chu) Loo...geographically speaking. So what's that mean?

(student: Oh, it takes time.)

Not just time but...something else going on. There has to be an
intermediate state for another

(student: (unclear)

You gotta get somewhere. Okay (laughs) except for formless realm.
Except for a formless realm reing, be, formless realm being who
never has a
(student: bardo)

bardo, there is no bardo for formless realm, okay. Why?

(students: They have no body)

They don't have to get anywhere. (laughs) okay. They don't need
that time to get to where they're going. So so (Chim jampyan) is
pointing out that the the example of the grain is referring
specifically to the time it takes to get to your new location.
See you there has to be some kind of being who is also some what
ineffable and also very fast and can get to the next life...can
get to the location of the next life. In between. So that's
logical. You can't see it. It happens to be true. The belief
that a bardo doesn't exist is as wrong as the belief that a
future life doesn't exist, and there is not a shred of evidence
for either one of those beliefs. There is none. We just grew up
that way. There's not one shred of any kind of evidence that
that a future life doesn't exist, I mean, you can say to me, the
the the responsibility is on you to prove it and I can say to
you, try to disprove it. 'Cause you can't. 'Cause it ex...it
does happen to exist and there's no evidence to the contrary.
There isn't any. But but you we're just not used to thinking
like that. Also if you study Pramanavartika you can get more
understanding of why there should be a future life. At the
opposite idea that just because the body stops moving the mind
has stopped is foolish, I mean, it's it's no proof at all. So
when a guy's get's knocked out, is he dead? When a person's
sleeping nicely, are they dead? You know, it doesn't, it doesn't
prove anything. Just because the body stops, it doesn't doesn't
prove that the mind stops at all. It it's a false assumption.
But we've always assumed it, so. Okay. The Buddha
also...there's also scriptural proof for the existence of the
bardo because the Buddha in one example gives three conditions
that must be present for a child to enter the womb. So
what...what are they, do you remember?

(student: It has to do ...woman who is menstrating or a fertile
woman, and a mother and a father who desire to have (unclear)
Yeah.

(student: and she (unclear) and the third one)

That's the one that proves the bardo, by the way. (laughter)

(student: Oh there has to be a bardo life in your (unclear)
life.)

Yeah, there has to be a a a smell-eater near by and then and then
Vasubandu says a smell eater in this case refers to a bardo
being. It's because they eat they eat smells. What about test
tube babies? I think (laughter) Vasubandu would say "in the
majority of cases". (laughs) (laughter) Norm...that how they
often say that, that's often the caveat, you know, they say in
the in the vast majority, ninety nine point nine nine percent.
Also I I think a better answer actually maybe that they may see a
mother and father having sex or something. They they may see it
anyway because there's a big argument that comes in this point in
some of the (b: Abhidharma) texts where they say, "why would any
bardo every choose a hell realm, you know, if they saw a hell
realm and people being beaten and tortured and burning wouldn't
they just turn around and run the other way" and and the key to
this is not so much that these three elements have to take place.
 The key here is the misconception. It's the total misperception
that goes on. In this case it's a it's a bardo being seeing some
wonderful glorious thing going on and getting captured in the
womb, but they say that the same thing happens with the hell, I
mean, as they approach the hells the hells look like these parks
and everyones having a good time (laughter) and it's the karma to
have a the the final moment of a bardo are always in some kind of
a hallucination. And they accidently go to some place really bad
and they don't understand what's going on. It's it's a (chin ji
lok, chin ji lok pa) means "they are under some gross
hallucination, some gross misperception at that last moment and
they they go there 'cause it looks nice to them, and then they

(student: (unclear))

Yea..the karma forces them to think it looks nice.
(student: And then to have that (unclear) the radical)

Yeah, which which takes no more than a few (sem pa), and you
know...now you know why. Now you know how. It's just the nature
of taking a rebirth that you have that misperception at that last
moment. At at the last moment. Yeah.

(student: Can...why...I mean, you you sound like the bardowa is
choice, that can sort of fly around )

Not really like that. But but they but they they would not
approach...I mean there's this classic thing of a bardowa running
to a beautiful river and it...I mean a preta, and it turns out to
be a big stream of blood and pus and all kinds of (unclear), I
mean what I'm saying is that that their (sem pas) are shifting
more often than ours, that's all.

(student: No no what I mean is like couldn't it be that they
perceive how horrible hell is but they they are still caught into
it like a human being)

It it could be.

(student: like you just sit someplace and a war breaks out and
when you see it you're completely terrified but you have no
choice?)

It it could be like that but they...that's the scripture tends to
say the other. (unclear) But you're also right. I mean if if
they were gonna have to be born there they'd have to be born
there. Okay. Have to perceive themselves being born there. I
prefer to say. Function of the four types of sustenance. What
this means is very simple. And the reason the question is there
is this. You know, it was a very interesting class about the
kinds of sustenance, you know, food is...sleep...food is a
sustenance, sleep is a sustenance, hope is a sustenance
concentration, keeping, keeping your mind on only a few things as
you go through the day is a kind of sustenance, and the opposite
is called stress and it's an anti-sustenance and it hurts your
body. And that those are all very interesting. But what this
question is getting at is this. Suppose your are know all these
things and you keep your activities and your mind...you keep
yourself, you make sure the phone is turned off most of the time
(laughter) you eat health, you eat organic food, you know, you
get, you walk to work and back, you do a marathon now and again
(laughter) (laughs) Suppose you do everything right, you know,
I'm talking about doing everything right, and all your (dulwas)
all those (sa chi mei lungs) are very very well oiled, you know,
what is the function of all those kinds of sufferings,
ultimately?

(student: To keep (unclear))

They perpetuate samsara, I mean, they they are, and that's the
answer to the question. (laugh) They are perpetuating...the the
the Buddha says...this is a direct quotation from the Buddha,
"the four types of sustenance are the very root of sickness,
cancer, agony. They help bring about old age and death." They
are just contributing to your death. I mean, does it mean that
you should abuse your body? No, your vows, your bodhisattva vows
and your and your (lam rim) instructions require you to take care
of your body. (unclear) Which kind of vows? Anyway, it's one
of your vows (laughter) (laughs).

(student: Would you repeat the quote again?)

He says, "the four types of sustenance are the very root of
sickness, cancer and agony. They help bring about old age and
death". Basically they perpetuate (unclear). The point I'm
trying to make is, you must do all those right things for your
body but don't get hung up on it, you know, I mean, you you we
saw one of the facts of the meditation on death, number three of
the certainty was what? The reason number three for the
certainty of death.

(student: The bodhicharyavatara?)

That was for something else...that was for when you're going to
die. That's number six.
(student: No time to practice Dharma?)

Yeah, I mean, even if you want to, even if you decide to, even if
you have all the money in the world, you know, even if you've got
this great Dharma teacher and then you go, okay, I really believe
it. Now I'm only going to practice Dharma, you don't have any
time anyway, you know. There's no time, I mean, we get so
frustrated, you know if you've tried to do your Dharma practice,
it's so frustrating. So what I'm trying to say is don't don't
don't give it an an excessive amount of time, you know, feeding
yourself...a) a) overfeeding yourself; b) getting to to obcessed
with how you look or, you know, are you quite up to the muscle
tone, I I translated for Yeshe Dundin on WEAI one day, and the
guy was he was talking and the guy was saying, "and his muscle
tone is not too good actually", you know (laughter) (laughs)
(unclear ) Rinpoche, he really (unclear) rikpa yi) Nagarjuna
said: "eat food as if it was medicine, you know, and he just eats
exactly what's needed to keep him going and when the doctor says
do this or that he does exactly just that, and he totally totally
disciplined, you know. He doesn't eat anything he doesn't have
to eat. And he eats exactly what he should eat but he doesn't
get hung up about his body, you know, he just does exactly what
he's supposed to do to take care of it in a very disinterested
way. It's it's kind of cool. Okay. Eight hot hells. We'll
just go through...give me like, how about two? The the classic
way of counting is to go to number eight and then go to number
one. That's classic way of listing them, okay? Just for your
interest, information.

(student: (nar mei))

(Nar mei). Number eight. Okay. Which is what?

(student: Avichi hell).

Avichi hell. Basically at that point your whole physical form is
indistinguishable from the fire, it looks like an incandescent
filament. You are burning like an incandescent filament. And
the only way they can tell that you are alive is that there's
some kind of whimpering coming out of that of that flame, and
that's the only hu...you know, recognizable sentient thing about
it, you know. And then the first hell?

(student: (Yang su))

(Yang su) which means what?

(student: Revive (unclear))

I I think you can all appreciate if you've been in an office
setting (laughs) (laughter) this thing about, you know, you, you
appear there and everyone's beating each other (laughs) you know,
with whatever they can grab, you know. I mean immediately...the
minute you're there, all your instincts tell you grab something
and fight, you know. Grab whatever's in reach and and pick it up
and hit the next person (laughter) and and they're...because
they're hitting you and the minute you appear there it's just
melee, you know, it...and it's deadly, it's a deadly fight from
the minute you're there to the minute you end and you it's just
you're just clawing at people, or pulling people's eyes or
pulling up anything you can grab and smashing it onto other
people, anything you can get to use for a weapon you're using it.
 And and they live like that. They they just sit there, that's
their existence, is to be like that. (unclear) give me two more.
What's (tik nak)?

(student: gathering)

That's one. (dun jom) Which...where do they gather you?
Between two great mountains and then they they they come together
and smash you. And they they look like what, remember?

(student: The heads of animals)

Yeah, they look like the heads of animals that you've killed, you
 know, if you're a big meany or...by the way, that's a different
story, but and then (tik nak)'s "black line". Remember that
one? Anyone?
(students: cut you on the lines; burning chains (unclear)
(laughter) (laughs) You just reassemble yourself and (unclear)
some more.)

Yeah, the trick is to after you cut up the parts still feel like
they're together, they still...the finger's hurting, the toes
hurting, your arm is hurting, your leg is hurting. Next two
hells...Judy Heller? (laughter) (laughs)

(student: I take care of my body. (laughter) (laughs)

By the way I (laughs) I not saying you have to take care of your
body (laughter), I mean each to his own needs. I don't mean to
to say that you shouldn't run a marathon, I think it's probably
wise actually, but I think ea each person knows themselves what's
necessary for them, you know, and and you...the (lam rim) is
adamant that you must take care of yourself and many great Lamas
have told me that I should exercise as well. (laughter) So...
seriously, have, and told me that I should eat the way Serge
tells me I should eat (laughter)...I don't want to listen to him.
(ngu mbu, ngu mbu chenpo), Robert?

(student, Robert: screaming?)

Screaming and great screaming. I'm still never sure...there's a
translation problem there of whether it, the second chamber is a
double chamber or whether it's two little houses or...it's not
clear to me. I've read a couple commentaries and it's still not
clear to me. The word in the first Dalai Lama's commentary I've
not...I've never met anyone who could explain it to me.
Basically you are inside of a...it's like being inside a safe and
they

(students: (unclear))

Am I wrong. Sorry.

(students: (unclear))

Oh, sorry. These are just more like frying pans. (laughter) I
kid you not. I mean and endless, miles long and you can't ever
get to the end. Just running. And then (tsa wa) and (rabtu
tsawa) heat and super heat. (unclear)

(student: (unclear))

(unclear) I'm sorry. Four kinds of eons, kalpas.

(student: (unclear))

By the way there's six kinds and I messed it up so you're pretty
much free on this question. (laughter) (laughs)

(student: You have bar kals (unclear))

Yeah.

(student: You have...the length it takes for a Buddha)

Yeah, kal chens.

(student: Kal chens)

Great kalpas. Great kalpas.

(student: And then (unclear)

Right

(student: (unclear)

Right, and then the one I left out which was

(students: (unclear))

An empty kalpa. Kalpa that's empty. So I guess if you were
really going to answer this question well...I talked to Thubten
how to grade it but...I'd say it's probably, destruction,
continuation, formation and then empty. Making a great kalpa,
you know, and that makes a lot more sense. (unclear)
(student: (unclear))

I would make it last, so it would be destruction, formation,
continuation and empty, and then another formation.

(student: destruction and empty)

I'm sorry. Yeah, I'm sorry. Yeah it would come after that.
Destruction, empty, formation and continuation. Destruction,
empty, formation and continuation...the first Dalai Lama never
explains the empty one...I guess there's nothing to explain.
(laughter). All right.

(student: (unclear)

And all four, all four of those together makes one great because
one great has how many bar kals?

(student: Eighty)

Eighty.

(student: And then (unclear) (bar kals) (unclear)?) You put, you
want us to put great and (bar kals?)

You can leave out (bar kals). All right. Describe the events
that open and close the eon of destruction. What what marks the
opening of it and what marks the end of it?

(student: The opening is when no one is able to take birth in
hell or no respite and the closing of it's when the planets
destruction.)

When the world is up...goes up in smo...what do you call it?

(student: (unclear))

There's a cool word for that in English.
(student: Vaporizes)

Vaporizes, yeah, poof. (laughter) (laughs) (unclear). What is
the length of time that a person must accumulate the collections
of merit and wisdom to become a Buddha? How long do you have to
work to get there?

(student: One countless eon which contains 80 kalpas times
countless, which is ten to the sixtieth power times three)

Yeah, ex exactly. (laughter) (laughs) Dharma mathematics.
(laughter) I don't think I mentioned (drang me) the word
"countless". Yeah, yeah. (drang me sum) It's always says
(drang me sum). Very famous. (drang me sum) is three countless.

(student: (unclear)

What is it? (Drang me sum de gyal way...drang me sum la sang
gye) It goes like that. That's half of it. (laughs) That
wouldn't get me through debate in the past. (drang me num la sum
me sang gye) something like that...it goes two cross two verses
actually. (Drang me sum la sang gye) means "it takes three
countless eons for a (sang gye)." For a Buddha.

(student: So, how did you want us to answer?)

How does it go?

(student: (unclear)

No, that's another part...that's a different part.

(student: (unclear)

Yeah that...say, that's it...the last one, the last line

(student: (unclear))

Yeah that, that's just describing that they occur during those
loops.
(student: (unclear)

Anyway, it's just (drang mei sum la sang gye) (laughs)

(student: (drang me) means "countless"?)

Yeah, the word (drang me) means "countless" but it refers to a
specific number...called (drang me)

(student: (drang me..sung la, sum la sang gye) there's only one
of them?)

Oh, I'm sorry. I have it here. (De drang me sum la sang gye)
okay, (de drang me sum la sang gye). That's the verse. (De drang
me sum la sang gye). Yeah that's what the that's what (unclear)
okay, (de drang me sum la sang gye)

(student: Do you want the whole verse or just that line?)

Just that line. Okay. We got up to death meditation. Did you
tell Art? Okay. The four broad steps in the whole outline of
death meditation.

(student: Disadvantages of not cultivating death awareness
(unclear)

Yeah, good, so the problems of thinking you're not going to die
tonight, the advantages of...have you tried it, it's cool? Did
you try it. (unclear) (laughter) (laughs) 'Cause I don't want
to lie to Rinpoche (laughter) (laughs) Did you try it, I mean it
changes, right, it changes your life a little bit...the more you
do it the better, it's kind of cool, anyway. Disadvantages of
not thinking you're going to die tonight. Advantages of of
knowing you're going to die tonight. Acting like that. And then
what...identifying death meditation, I mean you know what it's
not if it's what? or

(student: (unclear))
It's not it's not trying to train yourself in panic because?

(student: That's natural)

(laughs) That's natural. You don't have to train yourself. And
then (laughs), so what is it?

(student: (unclear))

Yeah they'll help you especially after you've passed, but then
when the time comes you're already...everything's taken care of,
especially if you've used that as a stepping stone to to the
higher practices, to the higher practices, and and you've
achieved what you needed to. So then you you can die happily,
there's no problem, you can die...die smooth, you know, you got
what you had to do. (unclear) wait, I think I know (unclear)
There were three reasons behind the second principle in death
meditation. The second principle is was (nam chi mang nyepa)
which means what?

(student: What is death meditation?)

Never sure when you're gonna die. Can't be sure when you're
going to die. Then there were three meditation inside that. What
were they? Remember.

(student: (unclear))

In in this realm, in this particular realm, lifespans are not
fixed.

(student: Lifespans are (unclear))

In in our realms. I mean nobody on this planet can tell you when
they're gonna die. Period. It may be people on other planets.
Normally. Less they're (unclear) (laughs).

(student: (unclear) our bodies are fragile?)

Yeah, that was number three and then number two?
(student: And most things are not good...most things are bad for
our own (unclear), help (unclear) up life)

Yeah. There's lot of things that can kill you and there's only a
few things that keep you alive and they're hard to get anyway.
If you don't believe me, go to work (laughs). (laughter) All
right. Mia, three resolutions, that you should make, and they
relate...by the way they relate to the three principles so if you
don't remember the three decisions, you...try to remember the
three principles and they give you a clue.

(student, Mia: Since death is definite (unclear) Dharma. Since
you don't know when you're going to die, you need to practice
now. And I think only Dharma can help (unclear).

Great, wonderful. Lek-so lek so. That's about it. Just that,
don't...try...I mean, I said it before I'll say it again. If you
go home and you...I don't know how much death meditation you did
between last class and this class, personally I remembered it
three or four times. Okay, and it's not good enough. That's
not..it's not enough to make it do anything. I think you...I
really encourage you to keep it up as a practice for the next
couple of months. Try to do it formally




in the morning, you know, I have found personally that if I
meditate on something formally in the morning, I do think about
it throughout the day. It comes up maybe once every couple of
hours or something, that I I'll actually start to do something
bad and because I meditated in the morning about it, I remember
and I and if I don't meditate in the morning then I don't
remember and I I go ahead and do it, so try to do some mediation
in the morning and and and about death and it it'll start to
appear during your day, you know, at the at interesting times and
and then you know, like this afternoon I was thinking is this
what I really want to want to do, I went to a movie last night
and I was debating, you know, it's like, let's see, if I'm gonna
die after the movie is this really what I wanna (laughter) you
know, (unclear) the movie, so I'm like, I don't want to make them
upset, but I is this really wanna do what I wanna do if I'm gonna
 die tonight, and you have to think about , you have to
(unclear). It could be the right decision to go, but you'd have
to examine it, you know. Yeah?

(student: (unclear)

Yeah, it'll come. It...renunciation is doesn't take a...I always
say it doesn't take an Einstein, you know, it's just being fed up
with the way things are and I think most of us are. It's just
admitting it, you know, it doesn't take a genius to say that
everything nice about your life is going to die, you know, you
the people that you love you're gonna lose, the health you have
you're gonna lose, you'll stop being able to read...I mean I love
reading and I love reading Dharma and I know that my eyes are
going and there'll be a time when I can't read it any more...I
see Rinpoche he can't read things anymore and he can't hear
anymore, and and it'll come, all the things you that are dear to
you you'll lose. So it doesn't take a genius to get
renunciation. I mean you have to do something about it. And we
have...particularly we have those higher practices which are
effective in this lifetime to stop to stop these things. So you
have to learn them and then you have to really...and they're cool
and they're fun, you know, and they're very much a pleasure to to
do in a deep way. There's no reason not to do them. Like that.
That's all. Rinpoche has not announced the date for the
preliminary initiation but he did agree to it, so we'll see, you
know, (unclear) is on and we'll we'll probably do a three day
meditation here in May sometime, probably very late late probably
the third week in May or something and we'll try to send
out...we'll try to organize that, and Friday night class will go
on through the end of April and then stop. Thubten (unclear)
doesn't know but he's gonna it in May (laughs) if you're here.

(student, Thubten (unclear))

We'll talk about it (laughs) That's embarrassing for you. And
then we're kind of taking a total break like June fifteenth to
July fifteenth, you know, just totally off, to take a rest, and
then after that we'll start a class...we'll start a course around
July 15 on Vinaya. I can't teach you the monks vows or the nuns
vows,

(cut)

I'm not allowed to, but I...there is a text by Tsongkapa which
has never been studied, I don't think, in this country and
there's a commentary which I am sure has never been studied in
this country, beautiful commentary and we'll be going over that
commentary, the parts that I can teach you because it's just to
know what the vows are, how you get them, how you lose them, what
which ones can a person take, which should you take, which ones
you have to be ordained to take, which ones don't even exist any
more, things like that. All the details...there's a lot of
Dharma... there's a thing I call Dharma rumors. Dharma
misinformation. Everybody has this idea about what's vinaya.
And mostly it's wrong. I think it'd be nice. If you're gonna be
educated baby geshes then you should know at least some good
clean pure information about vinaya, and Tsongkapa wrote a
fantastic short piece which we'll study the whole thing, and we
have a beautiful commentary by one of the lineage holders that of
our of our of our secret tradition, so we'll be studying that.
If that group translates it on time. That's about it. I can't
think of anything else.

(student: (unclear))

Rinpoche will not teach this Sunday 'cause he'll be in
Washington. He'll not teach the following Sunday because of

(students: (unclear))

oh he's having a special teaching, and then I believe after that
he'll start on Sundays and then he continues to teach on Thursday
nights. I don't believe...he's not teaching this Thursday night
because he does a lot of (unclear)

(student: This Thursday is sojong)
Oh and this Thursday is sojong anyway (laughs). Okay.

(student: (unclear))

Oh your your exam is a week from Saturday at ten oclock.

(cut)




          Course VIII: Death and the Realms of Existence, Jan-April 1996, NYC
                                 RAW TRANSCRIPT