ACI 8 «Смерть и сферы существования», занятие 8

Class Eight; tape one.

Transcribed by Karen Becker
Proofread by Summer Moore

{cut} [laughter] [unclear] so, you know, I put this one into the curriculum, this is
just sort of a break okay, and then the last two classes you should try to come
because that's ah ... we'll do the death meditation from Tsongkapa's {b:Lam Rim
Chenmo} which is one of the greatest presentations of our time. Today is just
for fun. Okay, you still have to learn it [laughter]. Say {kalpa} [repeat] {kalpa}
[repeat]. You know what a {kalpa} is, right? [students: [laughter] yes] {Kalpa} is
[laughter] ... people translate it as "eon", okay. And I just thought you'd like to
know how long a {kalpa} is, because they're always mentioned in Buddhist
scripture ... time is always reckoned by {kalpas} and nobody ever really figures
out what a {kalpa} is ... you know ... {kalpa} seems like a long time. I don't
know ... how long is an eon ... I don't know [unclear] [student: a million years]
A million years or something ... I don't know. Okay. So in Buddhism we have
four different kinds of {kalpa}s. All right. Actually more. This is also from the
third chapter of the {b:Abhidharma} and this is just a little piece of a long chapter
on the measurement of time, down to micro-micro seconds, and up to light
years and then the measure of space down to sub-atomic particles up to galaxies.
It's really cool. Some day you should study the whole thing. We can't do it in
this class ... we don't have time. Say {jikpay} [repeat] {kalpa} [repeat] {jikpay}
[repeat] {kalpa} [repeat]. {Jikpa} means "destruction". So {jikpay kalpa}, the first
kind of {kalpa} is the eon of destruction. This is a period of time which is marked
by ... you can say four different things happen at the same time. At the
beginning of the {jikpay kalpa}, at the beginning of the eon of destruction, it's
marked by a certain karmic event ... no more beings take birth in Avichi ...
what's Avichi ... Avichi is {nar me}. That's the lowest hell. That was that hell
a ... hot hell number eight that we described on Saturday. So, all of a sudden
beings stop taking birth in Avichi hell on this planet. Okay, if you were
supposed to take birth in Avichi hell, when you die you take birth in the Avichi
hell on another planet. So, anyway, this planet is getting ready to die. And there
won't be time for it to die if someone take's birth in Avichi hell, because you
[laughs] stay there for so long. So long before the world, the physical world
ends, that birth has to stop. People have to stop taking birth there. So we're
talking millions and millions of years before the end of the world marks the
opening of the eon of destruction. And the sign is that people stop taking birth
in that hell on this planet. [student: Now does ... do people still have karma
where they do get born into this hell on different planets?] Yeah, yeah [student:
or is that where the collective karma of everyone is] No, no ... well in a way ...
it is that also. But if the collective karma of everyone on this planet to be born in
that hell is starting to finish [student: to be born on this planet where there no
longer is this hell?] but, the Avichi hell on another planet is is still going fine.
How does he get there? [student: People had these [unclear]] No, how does
the being get from the planet earth to [students: bardo] The bardo. Bardowas
have the ability to fly. They can move quickly. They can move at almost the
speed of mind. And … and they they can reach ... they can reach the other
planet that way. Second event, people's life spans reaches eighty thousand years.
People live for eighty thousand years. [student: People like us?] Yeah. Human
beings. On Dzambuling. Okay. On the southern continent. It's the end of the
eon of continuation. And we'll talk about that.. I mean ... we're gonna reach
that eon. [student: [unclear] the end of the {kalpa}] Yeah, it's another kind of
{kalpa}. Yeah. It's called the {kalpa} of continuation. We … we didn't get to it
yet. But anyway, that one's ending and which one is opening? Of ... eon of
destruction. So these four events take place at the same time. This is the very
beginning of the destruction {kalpa}, the eon of destruction. And then other
events start to happen. All the animals and the pretas, all the animals and the
craving spirits on this planet, people who are supposed to be born that way start
taking birth in a … in another place, in a different place, on a different planet.
[student: What are these four?] These are four events that happen at the same
time as the eon of destruction begins, as it opens. Okay. [Student: So they're
happening in a previous eon?] Relative to us now, yeah. Okay, but they know it
goes over and over and over and over again in many different galaxies. We're
… we're not ... our {jikpay kalpa} is already finished. The last one. [laughs] Okay.
So the animals and hungry ghosts or whatever you want to call them, they die
and take birth on other planets ... if you're supposed to take birth like that, and
then human beings begin to reach the first concentration level. And we talked
about that in the very first class. So, they start to gain ... they start to ... one
human being automatically, by a karmic process, takes, gains the ability to enter
into the first concentration level and then as a result of that he's born into the
first level of the form realm. And, but before he's reborn, he tells other people
about how to get into that meditation and all the humans on this planet begin
moving into that kind of meditation and moving into the first form realm. So
basically, the human realm is emptied out also. If people are going to hell,
they're born in hells on other planets. Otherwise they they die and move into
the first part of the form realm. So the desire realm is emptying out. [student:
They're going into the form realm aren't they also [unclear]] Aft.. after that, but
they'll be on another planet. [laughs] [student: That’s after the era of destruction
is finished?] This is still while the eon of destruction is going on. All this, all the
things I'm mentioning, all these things starting to happen like, beings aren't born
in the hells on this planet any more, they're being in, they're being born in other
planets now, and then animals and hungry ghosts, they die ... people who are
supposed to be born that way are being born on other planets, and then the
human realms are emptying out because people are attaining … are attaining the
first concentration level in this life and as a result taking rebirth in the form
realm, and like that. Eventually the first form realm empties out. People learn
how to do the second concentration level, meditation, and they and then the first
form realm is emptied out also ... the first form realm level. So, the whole desire
realm is empty now. And the whole first form realm is empty also. There's no
more beings in the hells, no more beings of animals, no more pretas, no more
humans, no more desire realm pleasure beings, they've all been ... they've all
died and either died or did … been born into the second or higher parts of the
form realm. So basically think of the earth as an emptied out. [student:
[unclear]] No yet. [laughs] That whole process of clearing the earth out of
sentient beings, you know, sentient beings leaving earth, takes nineteen
intermediate eons.          {cut} It's the same {bar} as in {bardo} meaning what?
[student: In between] In between, so this ... I call them intermediate eons. {Kal}
is short for {kalpa} so {bar kal} means "an intermediate eon". This process of the
desire realm emptying out takes nineteen {bar kals}, nineteen intermediate eons.
How long is an intermediate eon? We'll talk about it later. Then comes the last
{bar kal} that's twenty {bar kals}, the twenty intermediate eons in a destruction
eon [student: I thought you said nineteen] Nineteen for all those being to go to
other places. Okay, and after they're all safely in other places, you can guess
what happens then. They say that the sun begins to super nova, and they
describe the heat of the sun, and I … there are … I mean scientists have seen
places where the suns divide and they form two suns and like that. So it's like
the suns are are supernova of our sun. So it's splitting into more than one sun.
Like if you went out on the first time that it split, there'd be two suns up in the
sky. Like a [unclear]. And they say first of all at the end of nineteen
intermediate eons, as the twentieth intermediate eon is beginning, the rains stops
on on this planet, on planet earth. Rain stops falling. All the rain stops. So that
the vegetation and the forests of earth dry up. Then the second sun rises in the
sky, the sun supernovas, and a second sun appears in the sky, and then all the
smaller bodies of water dry up, then a third sun ... a a I mean, the appearences
between the suns is like millions of years. A third sun appears and that drys up
all the rivers and streams on earth. Then a fourth sun appears and all the lakes ...
like there's supposed to be something like the great lakes, like in Michigan, they
all dry up. All the huge lakes on the earth dry up. Then a fifth sun rises, and the
outer sea dries up ... that's that huge sea outside the last of the concentric
mountain rings, dries up completely. Then the sixth sun rises and the four
continents and Mt. Meru go up in a puff of smoke. Just one waft of smoke and
they're all gone. And then the eighth the eighth sun, I'm sorry, the seventh sun
shines and the whole world burns up ... the whole physical world burns up. That
conflaguration triggers a similar conflaguration in the first level of the form
realm, and that burns up. The first part of the form realm burns up. The beings
are already in the second level, whatever ones are left are in the second level.
There's other kinds of destruction {kalpas} where the whole process takes place
through floods and water, and there's also destruction {kalpas} where the whole
process takes place through wind. And then they get into minor destruction
{kalpas} where the people on planet earth destroy each other with weapons, or
they set the whole earth on fire with some special weapon and and things like
that, or or famine, and they they talk about that. Yeah? [student: How can
there be a form realm when there're no more beings left?] There's still a physical
form realm above above the desire realm, there's a physical place, very subtle
form, there are mansions there, you know, like divine mansions, there are parks,
there are beautiful places like that ... you can't see them. [student: [unclear]]
They've already learned to do the meditation on the second concentration level
and because of that when they die, they've already been reborn into the second
level of the form realm. The second and third levels don't get destroyed by fire.
When there's water, that's another story. We'll talk about it some other time
[laughs]. [student: There's no beings there at all ... there's no one to give any
projections to them] Buddha? [laughs] That's a good point. Buddha sees them.
Yeah? [student: Is this the only way you become reborn on another planet?] I I
don't think so because Buddha before the end of this world went to visit his
mother or his father, I don't remember which one, [students; Mother] Mother?
on another planet and the day he came back is a Buddhist ... is one of our six
major holidays in the religious year. It's called {Lha Bab Duchen} and, okay, so
that's the eon of destruction. [student: In the eighty thousand years is the
quality of life the same as our life?] We'll talk about it. Better. Same. [laughter]
{student: nineteen.] So far we have twenty intermediate eons. We don't know
what an intermediate eon is yet, but we have twenty so far. Say {chakpay}
[repeat] {kalpa} [repeat] {chakpay} [repeat] {kalpa} [repeat]. {Chakpa} means
"formation eon". Formation of the world. It's also goes on for twenty {bar kals},
for twenty intermediate eons. And in the first of those, in the very first one the
world forms, like there's that very gentle energy starts to swirl in empty space
and then it gets stronger and stronger until the physical world appears. So Mt.
Meru, the four continents, the and the basis of the world is created during the
first {bar kal}, during the first intermediate eon inside the eon of formation.
Then the first beings start to take birth in this planet and it's really ... they they
sound really beautiful. I mean, in the in the {b:Abhidharmakosha} and later on
in this chapter they describe it ... it sounds very much like the Garden of eon,
Eden. [laughter] And people are taking birth there, and they they have ... their
bodies have their own light, like the sun and the moon don't necessarily have to
be there because their bodies produce their own light. They have the ability to
fly in the sky. They're very gentle. The the whole planet is made of some kind
of stuff that you can just lick it and you can, you know, feed you, and it's like a
Garden of Eden. And then they slowly start to collect bad deeds and their bodies
start to change and you know the rest of the story. [laughter] And at that point
beings live ... human beings live {tse me} [student: How is it different from a
form realm paradise? The first] I guess they still have desires for smells and
tastes. If you have desire for food you you're stuck in the desire realm ... you
can't get to the form realm. And that applies to meditation too. I mean if you if
you're still attached to those things it's very hard to do a to put your mind into
the form realm. You cannot actually during that time that you're thinking about
food you still have desire for food, you can't do it. And that's one of the borders
that separates the desire realm from the form realm. It's like a wall and you get
over it by by overcoming that desire for that object. Say {tse me} [repeat] {tse
me ... tse,tse} means "measure", {me} means "not" so {tse me} means
"immeasurable". Like we have the four immeasurables, measureless love,
immeasurable you know, that's the same word. But here it refers to a specific
number. And I looked all over the scriptures and there is that number is written
somewhere, but I cou..I didn't have time to figure out how many millions of
years it is, but it's a lot, okay. It's probably something like over thirty zeros or
something. Okay, I mean the {b:Abhidharma} has a whole numbering system
and I didn't have time to to figure out which one this is, but it's a lot, okay, it's
many many zeros. [unclear] So the first human beings on this planet live for that
many years. They can live for that many years. They live for millions of years.
Their lifespans. The formation eon ends when someone takes birth in Avichi.
Okay. The the forming of the world is over when someone takes birth in Avichi
hell. And lifespans, lifespans have dropped from {tse me} all the way down to a
measley eighty thousand years, okay. So when people only live for eighty
thousand years instead of millions of years we know that the formation of the
world is over. And the first being has taken birth in the in the lowest hell, and
that's the ending of the formation eon, that the eon of formation is finished. That
leads to the opening of the next eon [student: So Michael, do the beings of this
first formation realm have a better life than the first level of the form realm?]
They both have the six sufferings. You know, I mean, they're both mainly that's
what makes this life unbearable, and they have it equally at the same that we do.
[student: the form realm [unclear]] They that spreads to the form realm and the
formless realm. So they all have the six sufferings. It's not much difference ...
slightly more pleasant, I guess. Their bodies are not quite as as wonderous as in
the form realm and their minds are not quite as virtuous as buzzed out ... blissed
out, as in the form realm. Say {repay} [repeat] {kalpa} [repeat]{repay} [repeat]
{kalpa} [repeat] {repay} means to "continue" so this is the eon of continuation.
This also goes on for twenty intermediate eons, and the way it works is like this.
Lif lif lifespans start at a {tse me} and they they go down down down down
down down down ... they drop because people have learned to do the ten bad
deeds. People have start learning how to kill, how to steal, how to commit
sexual misconduct, and all the other ten, and because of that, the lifespan's
dropped down to ten years old, like the the average lifespan of a human being is
ten years. The {b:Abhidharma} later it gives this very very sad discription of how
that happens, and people are are killing and stealing more and more, lying more
and more, and then it creates disturbances in the world, people start to create
powerful weapons, there are people living in huge cities all over the world, and
some people are out picking berries one day when the cities decide to unleash
their weapons upon each other, and the whole world is destroyed in this big fire,
and then there's there's a few beings who survive because they happen to be out
in the for, what forests are left, they happen to be way out in the middle of
nowhere when the when the weapons went off. And then they come back to
the cities and find them totally destroyed, everyone dead, and they are
overcome with some kind of grief, and they they they comfort each other ... it's a
very sad picture, the story, you know, and they, you know, a few straggling left
left people left over and they meet each other, and they like hug each other out
of love because they're just so happy to see another human being alive, and they
decide, they have these meetings and they begin to live in little settlements and
they and they decide that they'll give up the ten bad deeds, because they
recognize the relationship between that and what happened to the planet, and
then they start to grow again ... life starts to grow again and lifespans ... because
of their virtuous behavior ... they start to rise again. Like that. They they go up
to eighty thousand and then people get non-virtuous again, and it goes through
another cycle ... they start to build up weapons and they start to do that and then
eventually they kill each other again and and the average lifespan in that in those
days is ten years, and then they have those meetings again, they decide to be
virtuous again, and and it goes on like that in big waves. Up to eighty thousand
years. Yeah. [student: So it's the idea that people are dying at the age ten, I
mean is that] Average lifespan is ten. [student: So how do they have children
and such if that's the case?] I don’t know. [laughs] I think they don't, at the very
end. Like people are just before that are living to twenty and they can have
children but their children die at an average of ten years and maybe there's some
people around that still live to twenties. But, and then there's four ways of being
born and there can be three other ways of being born ... I don't know. They
don't ... I mean this book is ancient. I mean the third chapter of the
{b:Abhidharma} is is ancient, and there's not a lot of detail. Even in the
autocommentary there's not a lot of detail, and that's that's about all the detail
you're gonna get. There are other books on the {b:Abhidharma} that were lost.
There were books that reached Tibet in the Sanskrit that were burned by the
Chinese, and we'll never know. So, we'll just never know. All we can do is try to
find what's left. Most of the great books on Abhidharma were lost even by
Vasubandu's time, so, we don't know [laughs] what was in them. That's good to
look for them. So this this goes on and this period between ... let me make
sure ... from here to here ... this is what defines an intermediate eon. So the time
it takes for lifespans to go from ten years up to eighty thousand years and then
back down to ten is one intermediate eon. And that's how an intermediate eon is
is defined. So if somebody comes up to you and says, "how long is an
intermediate eon?", what do you say? [student: a hundred and sixty] All you can
do is explain this, because it's not like so many billions years or something. I
mean, somebody's a mathematician could maybe figure it out. How often do
lifespans change? I don't know. I would say in recorded history of our planet,
they haven't changed. We are in what's called the time of the hundred. And
basically people live to around a hundred years old. We're in the special period
that Buddhism calls the time of the hundred. And and in the recorded history of
our planet that hasn't changed much. You know, from forty up to sixty, to
seventy, to sixty, to fifty but basically we're still in the range of a hundred. So so
I don't know, lifespans haven't changed much. We've got a slight increase right
now from thirty or forty to sixty or seventy, but in in this terms it's it's not even,
it wouldn't even show. It's just an anomaly, you know, I I don't know how long
it takes for lifespans to change. Dudjom Rinpoche who came just before Je
Tsongkapa tried to calculate it, and I don't remember what he came up with, but
it's billions of years, I mean it's a long time okay ... I don't know how long. And
and you'll never be able to tell exactly how long an eon is, a {kalpa} but you
could figure it out if you were good with a s ... math, if you could figure out
roughly how long it had to, how that it had to be at least so long. Su suppose
that lifespans changed every ten thousand years or something, I don't know,
from ten to fifteen, but you'd have to get up to eighty thousand and then come
back down. Anyway, that's one intermediate eon. The eon, the {kalpa} of
formation takes twenty of those. Okay. So the eon of formation ... this cycle
goes on twenty times ... people blow themselves up twenty times [laughs] okay,
before the world ends. And I I you know the whole evidence that scientists have
of carbon dating ... we don't know that carbon acted this way a hundred years
ago, we don't know that carbon is going to act this way a hundred years from
now. We find traces of ancient cities ... there's nothing to say that there weren't
other cities that traces were destroyed ... we don't know, you know, you can't
really say. According to this, I mean the whole planet has been civilized and then
destroyed twenty times. This first intermediate eon happens in half a loop
okay ... what do you call these things? I don't know. [student: wave] Yeah, the
first, the first intermediate eon takes only half a wave, but the drop in lifespans in
slower, so it takes the same amount of time. Okay. In other words, the times it
takes to get from here to here is the same time it takes to get from here to here,
and they're both in ... because this drop in lifespans takes less time, so it goes on
more slowly than this increase in drop does. I mean, they're equal..the time is
equal. [student: So the first drop is equal is is longer than the second drop.]
Yeah, the first drop is some is somekind of millions of years down to ten years,
and that takes the same amount of time it takes to go from ten years to eighty
thousand years and back to ten years. So that this intermediate eon, which is
only half a wave, but half of a big wave, takes the same amount of time as this
intermediate eon that takes a full wave. There's eighteen eons like that and then
there's a half a wave up, and that's number twenty. So there's one intermediate
eon that goes from millions of years of life down to ten and then there's eighteen
intermediate eons that go from ten to eighty thousand years to ten, and then at
the end, at the very end, it takes another intermediate eon to get up to the last
eighty thousand ... from ten up to the last eighty thousand. So that's the whole,
the whole {kalpa} of formation, I'm sorry, continuation, takes twenty
intermediate {kalpas} like that. Yeah. [student: So where do beings like
dinosaurs fit into this [laughs] [laughter] and things like] I I have a feeling
they're like ... I have a feeling they're like right about here, you know, and our
world is right about here, [student: Right. But human beings are alive during
dinosaurs I guess] I have a feeling it's no big deal. [student: Right. Now what
about things ... obviously the idea of evolution is ... doesn't work] No, they
wouldn't say that. [student: right, right] But given that things are empty, it's
possible that things could happen like that. [student: Why doesn't evolution
work with this?] Supposedly the first human beings takes place, [student:
complete] occur yeah, through through {dzu kye}, they just born here complete.
It it almost sounds from the description that they are beings who got left behind
in the second form realm and then got reborn as humans, but that's kinda, it's
hard to tell from the {b: Abhidharma} it's not quite clear. [student: [unclear] the
evolution of their karma?] Yeah, it'd be the same thing. So if you take ... there's a
there's another {kalpa}, this is the last one I promise, say {kal chen} [repeat] {kal
chen} [repeat]. What's {chen mo} mean? [student: big] Big, [laughs] okay. This
is a great eon. A great eon consists of eighty of these intermediate eons. One
great eon is eighty intermediate eons. Oh by the way, I'm sorry, I left out one
thing. What's happening over here ... which eon is opening up, up here now.
Yeah, eon of destruction is opening. Remember, this whole thing twenty eons
long was the eon of continuation, and then at this point the eon of destruction
opens, and before, what what what eon, what was right before here? [student:
formation] Yeah, the eon of formation of the world. So the world forms, and
then it forms for twenty intermediate eons, continues for twenty intermediate
eons, and then takes twenty intermediate eons to get destroyed. [student: So
then you have sixty?] That's sixty and it doesn't quite ... I mean you can't say that
the great eon is one and a one and a half of those or something like that. Gre a
great eon is described in the Abhidharma as eighty of these, and maybe I think it
refers to ... but I'm not sure, okay, being around for four of these continuation
eons. [student: [unclear]] For being around during four of those continuation
eons. I don't think it refers to twenty twenty twenty and then I don't know
where the other twenty comes from.             [student: In the formation eon is it the
same wave pattern for that also? This eighty thousand years going down to ten
years] No. No. In formation it was just, what was it, it was going from, it was
just the world forming [student: For twenty what?] and then the first human
beings appear [student: But how do you define calling this an eon from this
point to this point so in that formation how do you get] Oh those eons are are
defined by the length of these eons. [student: huh?] The length that it took the
world to form is the same amount of time that it takes this to happen. Okay, just
… just in artificially calculated. This is the definition of an intermediate eon. That's
why I didn't give it to you at the beginning. Because it's just the amount of time
that it takes for people to go from ten years to eighty thousand years to ten
years again. Now how long is that? No one's ever, to my satisfaction, I mean, I
believe a couple of Tibetan Lamas in the 1300s tried to calculate it [laughs] you
know, but it's … it's billions of years, okay. So eighty of those is a great eon, and
a great eon is very important for us, and I'll explain it to you ... I think you
should take a break first, and then … then we'll talk about ... this whole subject
comes up in the subject of how often do Buddhas appear in the world ... how
long does it take for a Buddha to get here, and you can wait a few more minutes
[laughter] [laughs] take a break and then we'll do it. Robin, did you have a
question? [student: I just wondered. Is this a model like the model that
Vasubandu and that you proposed Vasubandu was composing as a model of the
universe, could this be taken] No, he's it's [student: as a model, or is this meant to
be taken literally [unclear]] Oh, you know what I think. I think there's three
different ways of ... people in, you know, there's three ways of explaining why
… why this is like this, you know. One, Vasubandu was didn't know anything
and they were just talking about Mt. Everest and India and didn't know what
was on the other side ... that's interpretation number one, you know.
Interpretation number two is that, what was the second one, I don't remember,
oh just that he didn't know anything and all … all that this existed before the
Buddhists, you know, that the Hindus thought this up from nothing and that the
Buddhists just accepted it and kept recording it in their books, you know. And
then and then the third way of explaining it is just that Vasubandu had the
personally had the karma to see it this way, and it was this way. It it was his
projection of this way, and that we just don't have that particular projection right
now. And it doesn't mean that somebody a hundred years from now or five
hundred years from now will see the world in any kind of way that we do. You
know, we think ... every generation has thought that they are seeing the world
the way it really is, and every generation has been wrong because the next
generation always sees it a different way. And it's not a ... what is the world ... I
mean, that's to say who are you, you know, are you a human, are you a deity,
are you a demon, you know. It depends on who's looking, you know. That's
your emptiness and it applies to the world as well. There's a big lesson in the
third chapter of the {b:Abhidharma} ... you are empty, your world is empty.
Why does your world have to be like this? Why does it have to be like New
York City? Why couldn't you be in paradise right now, you know. What
prevents New York from becoming a Buddha paradise? I there's a big lesson in
the third chapter. You have to study emptiness. Okay. Take a break. [laughs]
[student: Did you say how long the eon of destruction lasted?]Eighty - twenty
and twenty [unclear]Say {de} [repeat] {drangme} [repeat]{sum la} [repeat] {sang
gye} [repeat]. {De} [repeat] {drangme} [repeat] {sum la} [repeat] {sang gye}
[repeat]. {De} means "that". That refers to a {bar kal}. What's that?{students:
intermediate eon. Intermediate]Intermediate eon. Okay. Millions of years, okay.
{De de} means "that", that means those…that {bar kal}. {Drangme} means
"countless" and in the {b:Abhidharma} system that is a specific number. That
number is called a "countless". Okay. So how many times have I told you ...
countless times. So, ten to the sixtieth power. Okay. It's … it's one followed by 59
zeros. Six, yeah sixty, fifty nine. Fifty nine, sixty, you figure it out.[student: ten
[unclear]] Ten to the ... I once figured it out. Fifty nine or sixty zeros okay, you
can [laughs] I'm not going to figure it that way [laughs] all right. {Sum} means
what? Three. Here {la} means "after". You know what {sang gye} is?{students:
Buddha]Yeah, Buddha. I'm sorry, I made a mistake. I made a big mistake. {De}
doesn't refer to {bar kal}. Scratch that out. What's a {kal chen}? [students: eon -
great eon] Eighty {bar kal}, okay. So I don't know, four trillion years, five trillion
years, I don't know. I I I can't even guess. Somebody’s got to figured out
something around there. Okay. This is like five trillion years, say, and then you
multiply that times ten and you put sixty zeros after that. Okay. It's that many
years ... five trillion times ten to the sixtieth power, at least, probably more.
Multiply that times three. And that's how long you have to ... after you decide to
become a Buddha, you know, after you decide to start trying, that's how many
years it takes to collect the karma to sustain that perception forever.[student:
Whoa [laughter] {Is this the sutra system or]All the sutras say that. [student:
What about tantra?]There ... we'll talk about it. But but I guess the whole purpose
of talking about {kalpas} tonight and the whole purpose why Vasubandu spends
so much time on it is this. It's that, it's che, it has, it's supposed to strike your
mind, you know, it's supposed to say you know this plan ... I've been on a planet
like this ... it was, the the the civilizations built up all over the planet and then
were destroyed, was it twenty times in each in each twenty times per
continuation eon ... four of those is a great eon and then for ten to the sixtieth
power of those I have been on this on a planet trying to be a good person, trying
to become a good person. That's how long it took the Buddha, studying
emptiness and studying Bodhisattva activities. For that amount of time in order
to collect the virtue necessary to sustain the perception of being a Buddha ... and
doing a Buddha paradise. That's the amount of energy it takes. [laughs] The
Jains in India, they don't believe it's even possible. They say you can't ... they say
you can't do it and they had a big fight with Buddhists because the Buddhists said
we can do us but it takes this many years to do it.[student: So how do you know
where you are?] [laughter]I believe that some sutras say after attaining
bodhicitta ... I mean the {b:Abhidharma} doesn't talk about that because it's
Hinayana, but, I believe that the Mahayana scriptures say that after you get
bodhicitta ... after you develop a true compassion for all sentient beings such that
you would do anything to save them, you know, like that many years after that.
Actually it doesn't have to be that long ... it could be like seven lifetimes. And
then the opening lines of the book of the Shantidevi when he talks about
anger ... did you ever read those? Didn’t we in Arizona, [unclear] yeah, yeah,
they say one instance of anger destroys the amount of virtue you could collect in
one of these eons okay [laughter] [laughs], and then the textbook writers at Sera
Mey said, "come on, if it were that way, no one would ever become a Buddha".
[laughs] [laughter] But it's specific kinds of anger destroy the the collected virtue
of of huge amounts of time. You know, one one really good period of hot anger
for five minutes ... you know how it can destroy a relationship, you know, in in
in ten minutes you can destroy ten years of relationship with another person.
It's very similar with virtue ... it burns it very quick. Supposed to be very very
dangerous.[student: What kind of anger can do that?]They say specifically
towards a bodhisattva. Who's a bodhisattva in this room?[student: Don't know]
[laughs]We don't know. We never know. So it doesn't help.[student: [unclear]]
[laughs] [laughter][unclear] mother [unclear] [laughter]. Don't get angry. Okay.
When do when do Buddhas appear in this world? Say {kalpa sangpo} [repeat]
{kalpa sangpo} [repeat] {Kalpa sangpo} means {kalpa} is {kalpa} {sangpo} means,
do you know what {sangpo} means ... like Lobsang? By the way, anyone who
took their vows on Saturday, I have your Tibetan names. I didn't bring them.
We're going to type them out on a piece of paper, you can have them on the
weekend. But everybody's Lobsang, okay? [laughter] Especially what's your
second name. Because you get your abbot's name, you your first name is always
Lobsang.[student: What about the monk called Thubten?]That was Rinpoche's
ordination name. His novice name.[student:             Well, why did he call him
Thubten?]He just did, I don't know, I guess he can give you his novice name also,
I don't know, but that's an important name because that was granted to him by
the twelfth, thirteenth Dalai Lama, by the ... he was ordained by the thirteenth
Dalai Lama. So that was the thirteenth Dalai Lama's name, so it's very lucky if
you can get that name too. Lobsang's better because it's Tsongkapa. [laughter]
[laughs]. So {sangpo, sangpo} means {sangpo} means "good or fortunate;
wonderful". So we are in {kalpa sangpo}. We happen to be in {kalpa sangpo},
And you can read about it in the reading, but basically there're gonna be a
thousand Buddhas appear in this in this {kalpa}. In our {kalpa} ... the one that
we're in right now. Where are we? Okay. That pretty much I can tell you. That's
that's pretty clear in the scriptures. So if this is ten years, and this is eighty
thousand, they ask in the scriptures do do Buddhas appear during this period up
to this period ... you know, would a Buddha appear while things were getting
better, you know, while people were getting more and more happy and things
were moving along smoothly like at work, like you never get renunciation until
you have a bad day. [laughter]. They never appear during this part of the curve.
They they never appear in a planet during the first part of this ... while things are
going well, they don't appear in a planet. This is ten years, and if this is a
hundred, they appear somewhere in here, because things are getting worse.
People can't practice Buddhism unless something disastrous is happening in their
lives [unclear], people aren't interested in Buddhism unless something really bad
is happening in their lives. I remember one day a guy came to class, he just, you
know, well-dressed, wealthy, handsome, mov ... he's actually a movie actor, and
and I was wondering, you know, how'd this person get into class, you know, did
this person have a personal disaster ... what happened with this person ... why is
this person here. You you gotta have some kind of [student: Michael, are you
saying then that people are just motivated by negative things ... what about
people that are motived by positive things?] It it's okay, but mainly in Buddhism
it's by some kind of disaster, and and it's either something in your life, I mean,
very often the people who are most serious are the people who've had some
very great tragedy, in their lives. It seems to motivate you properly. And
renunciation is the, it is the main motivation, so anyway, the Buddhas only
appear during the periods of renunciation, while things are bad. They don't
appear during the upswing; they appear during a downswing. They don't appear
so much during past this period. We don't have Buddhas appearing. I mean we
are somewhere right around here, and we are close to this to this ... we are very
close. I mean we are close to the destruction of the world according to {b:
Abhidharma}. I mean it doesn't say two thousand and four it's going to happen,
or something like that ... I mean you don't see that, if somebody says they see
that, I've never heard of it in a scripture. But but you can calculate ... we are in the
period called {se lo gyal po} which means we are in the, we are at the very very,
very tail end of the, of this intermediate eon. We are at the very close to the
closing days of this interme... intermediate eon. And there are five signs. So you
can say pretty much that recorded history has big clumps of it, you know, what
we know about scriptures, yeah [student: You said there are going to be a
thousand Buddhas in this]No, in the whole[student: twenty, in the intermediate
twenty intermediate]I don't know exactly, I think maybe more than one can
appear during one lifetime.[student: Yeah, I just wondered because we've had
three so far, right?]Yeah. Yeah. We have nine hundred and ninety seven to go.
But maybe not before we reach here ... I don't think so. I think in this eon ...
before this planet is destroyed.[student: the great eon?]Yeah, I think so. It's not
too clear but I believe it's a great eon. I think ... it's very ancient text and it's ...
you know ... hard to read and it's hard to say ... I can't get up here and say all this
is how many years [unclear] ... I don't think anyone can. These are called the five
degenerations. These are the signs that we're close to the end [laughs] of the eon.
Okay. Of the end of this week, okay. By the way, this is ... the five degenerations
are very common. I mean they're they often appear in Buddhist scripture. The
explanation of them is very rare and I finally found it in the computer by
somebody named Jym Yam Pi Yang who's from the thirteenth century in Tibet
and he he knew them and he wrote them out. So, the first one is called time - life
- {tse} means "life" like {tse way} means "long life". So {tse} means "life". And what
it means is during these times human life is very fragile, there are many diseases,
there are many ways to die, you know, it's very easy to die in these times. The
human body is very weak in these times. Say {nyon mong} [repeat]. {Nyon
mong} you know, I think, no?[student: [unclear]]Mental afflictions. Okay. Bad
thoughts. [student: The same as kle-sha, no?] Kle-sha, yeah. Kle-sha is a Sanskrit
word, comes from a word "klish", root "klish", Klish means to bother somebody.
And the definition of a kle-sha is a thought which disturbs the view the peace of
mind. And the classic ones are desire, hatred, pride jealous, greed, you know,
stinginess, those are the classic ones. In the five degenerations it has a different
meaning, though. It means that people who are not ordained, non monks and
nuns, will start to take no interest in virtuous deeds. [laughs] Okay, they won't
be much attracted to to doing good things. To doing virtuous things. They'll lose
their interest in in virtue. People who are[student: [unclear monks]]people who
are not ordained. We're going to get to the monks and nuns later, just as just as
bad, okay. [laughter] [laughs]{Sem chen} you know. {Sem chen} means what?
{students: [unclear]] That’s {shen} and not {chen}. {Sem chen} means "living
beings".That's what they always translate as "sentient being". But here it has a
totally different meaning ... it means ... what do you say ... it it refers specifically
to our to our bodies. Our bodies are not [laughter] well porportioned, they're
not physically strong, they're not well coordinated, they're not the the right
pro..you know they're all ... our physical bodies are not are not in very good
shape during these days. The body of the human being is just not what it used to
be during these days. [laughter] [unclear] [laughter] {Du} means "time" like {dun
kor} is Kalachakra, for example. {Du} means "time". But it's a code word for ... I
don't know, you tell me a good word in English ... it's {lon chu}, {lon chu} means
the things which you live off of. Like your house and your food and your
crops ... mostly food ... mostly crops in the sense that they're losing their ability
to sustain life. [unclear] Energy. Nutrition. [student: Commodity?]Like that, the
nutritional power of of food is is becoming bad. You know you can eat all you
want but you don't get healthy, you know. The food itself is losing it's health in
these times. [student: Sustenance]Like the ability to keep you healthy. It doesn't
matter what you eat, you know, it's all the food in the world in these days is has
lost it's vitality or something, you know, it's ability to keep you alive in a healthy
way. And the same with with medicines and things like that. So I don't know,
you could say "food etc" and I don't know.[student: sustenance]You want to call
it ... what's the adjective for lousy ... I don't like "lousy food" ... It's "diminished" I
guess.[student: Insufficient?]The power the power has is getting less and less.
And then {tawa} which means literally ... {tawa} means "philosophical view ...
your world view". But when the {tawa} of the whole word gets degenerate then
it means that ordained people are not acting in the right way either. And these
are the five degenerations. They're called {ni ma nga}. And they are {go wa} ...
{go wa} means "spreading" during this period. We're on the ... we're on the verge
of that or we're already into it, and that's supposed to be a sign that the end of
the {kalpa} is closed. They say that we're right on the borderline of people, you
know, that we're very close to the days when people won't be interested in
Dharma any more ... when people won't be practicing ... people won't care about
it, and the first thing that dies is not the study. It's the putting it into your heart,
you know. That dies first, so there's still people going to classes and and learning
all the words and the ideas and the concepts, but the putting it into your life has
already died out. They say that will come, that will go first. So the there'll be a
there'll be a period when people are just studying it. But are not putting it into
their own lives, And and we're on the verge or we're into this time already,
we're very close. So as soon as we go across that border from the point of people
applying it to their own hearts and to where they just start studying it, that that'll
be the end of that will be the beginning of the end. That that's when the period of
the five degenerations is is already spread and then that's the that's the close of
the eon. Then the eon is closing ... we're very close to that. And life spans will dip
under a hundred years and people will start to ... and then we'll reach the the the
part where the..for example, the eon of destruction by weapons. And and people
will destroy the world with weapons. So we're we are defin ... we are here.
[laughs] We're on the border of it. We're on the edge of it. Or or into it already.
Something really close. Just the last thing I'll say, the the the thing about taking
that many eons to reach Buddhahood, you know, and I mean, you don't you
know you can read it in a scripture, but when you finally calculate it it's pretty
depressing, you know, like I think most of us have hopes of in this life we could
do something significant you know [laughter] but it turns out to be one fraction
in quadrillions, you know, like the the amount of time we have in this life to try
to be good is is is a moment in a in a billion years, you know, and it it's almost
insignificant, but, in this world we do have {tantra} secret teachings, I mean,
when I say {tantra} if you don't know much about it, you think of dirty things or
weird things. If you know a little bit more, you think of a long thing you have to
recite [laughter], if you know a little bit more you think about doing a few
retreats, long retreats, and then there's a point beyong that where if you really
do do all the things you're supposed to do, if you keep your tantric vows, if you
do the retreats you're supposed to do and if your {lam rim} study, if your
scripture study is really really good and you're meditating and practicing daily in
a very serious way, then it means a totally different thing, you know. Then when
I say {tantra} you it means something experiential, it's something that's
happening to you, and something that's obviously the method now to becoming
a Buddha in this life. And is does not relate to everything you ever heard about
{tantra}. It's actually some kind of experiential thing where because you've done
the right things..in a good steady slow way, like the rabbit, you know ... ohhh
the tortoise ... [laughter] you know, that after a period of time, as a necessary
result of karma in this same lifetime, you are forced to enter a certain realm and
and you can do it, and and it's a choice, you know. You basically have a choice
between trillions of years or or entering that path, and when the time comes that
you get a chance, you have to go for it. Like you have to really get up the
courage ... it will take courage ... and there will be some hard times, and it takes
some kind of extraordinary level of belief and faith, but you take that leap, and
then you you actually can can reach all those goals in this life, but it it takes a lot
of hard work and a lot of just normal Buddhist practice at the office, and a lot of
good meditation and study and service of you lama, very important, and then
there'll come a time when there's a crucial time when you make a leap, and you
when the time comes you have to go for it and don't don't doubt and don't be
wimpy, you know, just go for it and and it that's ... it's either that or or those
trillions of years, basically. But when the times comes you'll know. But but you
have to do this study very very sweetly, and happily and joyfully and then it will
come. Yeah.[student: Will there be a time this year when we can get][laughs]
He's bringing up the subject ... Rinpoche's giving an initiation in August into the
highest form of {tantra} ... the highest form of the highest form of {tantra} and if
you haven't taken it, you can take it ... you need some classes, and then you
need, you need to you need to have a prepar a prepa a preparatory initiation ...
you need to have an initiation before that. So if anyone's interested I'd say talk to
John, okay, because John is trying to organize the preliminary initiation which
Rinpoche has not agreed to yet, he's agreed to give to re-give the full the full
initiation, but he's not agreed yet to give the preliminary initiation that you need
to to enter the full initiation. So so if you're interested, talk to John, and then if
we get enough people we'll march down to Howell [laughter] and take flowers
and fruits and things, and present our demands. [laughter] So, but I, it takes
usually a good group of people for him to consider it, so I I don't believe, I mean
in our lineage, you don't take an initiation lightly, and you cannot give an
initiation lightly. And he did not do initiations for ten years, I think, I mean and
he made us study for that long, and it's very bad to drop into New York and
give twenty initiations and leave, you know. [student: What about blessings,
Michael? What about when you hear the Lamas say you take these for a
blessing?] As a blessing, maybe. But you have to take certain vows and then you
have to keep those vows ... you have to know them and it takes a long time to
study them, anyway. Bu, so I can't say that I know, you know [laughs] I'm not
criticizing those people who do that 'cause I don't know why they do it and I I
would break my first bodhisattva vow if I decided why they did it ... I don't
know why. But there there's probably special reasons. Anyway, if you want to
take it in our lineage, normally you have to study for a long time. Rinpoche is
very old and I think it's wise to take it as soon as you can. So that's just my ... you
know, normally I'd say you shouldn't take it unless you're very prepared,
extremely prepared, but on the other hand to get it directly from him is
incomparable. You can't get it like that, so I would ... if you have any inclination I
would encourage you to. When he first agreed to give us initiations, somebody
raised their hand and said, "you know we'll never be able to keep this initiation.
Why are you giving us this?", you know, and he said, "well, you're going to go to
hell anyway [laughter] [laughs], so when you get to hell you can say ... you can
stand up proud and say, I'm here because I broke my {tantric} vows [laughter]
[laughs], I'm not like you other sluts here", you know. [laughter] [laughs]. You're
just here 'cause you led a bad life. [laughter] I'm here because I broke my ... you
can be proud, you know, or something like that. Any ... someone had a
question? No. We'll we'll do a ... no but seriously it's very wonderful.[prayer:
short mandala][prayer: dedication]
The Asian Classics Institute

Geshe Michael Roach
Course VIII Death and the Realms of Existence.