ACI 7 «Обеты бодхисаттвы», занятие 5

Class Five: Vows Ten to Eighteen Explained
Geshe Michael Roach
August 26, 1995
Cassette No. 71, Transcribed: 10/98-4/99, G. Durgin




And we'll do the second half tonight. Okay, we'll do the other nine. Welcome Mr. Lessey. I
didn't know you're here. He typed in the first text of the Asian Classics [unclear], etcetera.

Number ten. Say {chongsok}[repeat], {jom}[repeat], {chongsok}[repeat], {jom}[repeat]. {Chong}
means, like, "a village". {Sok} means "etcetera." {jom} means to "destroy." The etcetera stands
for three other kinds of places. {Chong} here which means "a city", {jong} which means "a
large area", like a county, and then {yul} which means "a whole country." Alright. So there's
really how many root vow's here?

Student: Four.

Four. 'Cus it's four different objects. Alright? I hope somebody's keeping track. I don't even
know how many there ...

Student: Twenty-three.

Twenty-three, okay. Twenty-seven, alright. At the end let me know. I'm curious. I never
figured it out. No, there's really more than eighteen, right? So there's four vows there. I was
talking to Rinpoche last night and we talked about this and he said, the night before, and he
said that a lot of the Boddhisattva vows and especially the secret teachings were designed for
the busiest people of those times because they needed something fast to collect virtue and he
said the people who were the most busy were the royalty and the great, the aristocrats of
Indian society, the higher castes, especially kings and princes and things like that. A lot of
the secret teachings were given to people who were actually in charge of countries. And this
Boddhisattva vow is one of those that can be broken by a king or a minister of defense or
something like that. I mean, mainly, you and I don't have normally the opportunity to
destroy a whole village or a whole town or a whole county or a whole country. But that's
what it refers to. It refers to destroying one of those habitations. I'm gonna read directly from
my notes. These are directly from Je Tsongkhapa. I believe his analysis of the Boddhisattva
vows is the best you can ever find. So it's nice to hear exactly what he said about each one.
So I wrote down the main points. The motivation is important in each of these. In this
motivation, the motivation is you want to destroy those places, okay. That's not a surprise.
Okay. Oh, I'm sorry. And then he says, {nyomongchen}. { Nyomongchen } means " a desire
to destroy those places which is afflicted." One of the three mental... it's infected by desire,
hatred or ignorance. It has to be afflicted for you to break a root vow. Afflicted meaning it
has to ... your desire to destroy those places must be motivated by anger... by some variation
of hatred, desire or ignorance.

Student: Did you say this is true of all the vows?

I would say so. Yeah. I'd say so. {Jorwa} means how do you actually undertake to destroy
those places and Je Tsongkhapa lists a whole bunch of them but he says it does not include
striking the people in those places. Why?

Student: That's already covered.

That's already been covered in {shakyamingyin}. Okay. That's already been covered in that
dual vow that started with someone apologizing to you. Actually, the other way around.

Student: Wait, with that vow it had to be a grievance over time, right?

Yeah.

Student: And someone who has wronged you, also.

Yeah. Long... whole long story. But he says anyway, striking the people in those towns or
cities is already covered. As is destroying the belongings of that place, which I guess would
be... We couldn't figure that out in the other class. I guess if there were temples there and
things like that it would be destroying the property of the Sangha. But this one doesn't
include those. And he doesn't say much more about it except that he goes into, you know,
normally kings and military officials, of the country and things like that could do this one. I
like those vows that we can't really break 'cus we don't have the means at our disposal to
break them.

Student: In this nuclear era we could.

Yeah. I mean, if ever you became President and you had your finger on the bomb...

Student: Or if you're a terrorist.

Student: Or if you're a GI in Vietnam. You're lightin' up the village.

Yeah. Okay. Say {majang}[repeat], {tonmiten}[repeat]. {Majang}[repeat], {tongmiten}[repeat].
{Ma} is always what in Tibetan?

Student: Negative. Negation.

Either negative or efemin. This happens to be negative. {Majang} means "not trained." {Jang}
means "trained." {Tongmi} means {tongpani} what's that?

Student: Emptiness.
Shunyata. Okay. The idea of emptiness. The concept of emptiness. And {ten}, {ten} means
"to teach". So the vow says, "to teach the idea of emptiness to those who are not trained. To
those who are not well prepared." It's a very specific... like many of the Boddhisattva vows...
and you will learn this... when you go out in the world and you meet other Buddhists,
American Buddhists, and they, and you start comparing views about the Boddhisattva vows,
you'll find out that they think it's wrong to teach emptiness to anyone who's not, like, totally
into it and things like that and you know if you just read many of these vows, if you just read
the name of the vow you can get a misconception of what the vow is and many American
Buddhists never got past reading the names of the vows, they never got any actual
description of the vows. This one is very, very specific. The {tsatung} which means the, the
{tsay}, the point at which you break a root vow is, is very specific. Like in so many of these
cases, like not giving, not giving material assistance to somebody. You have to have it, they
have to want it, they have to approach you specifically, and then all those other conditions.
This is similar. The first... The following are the conditions. This is on your homework,
okay. I think. They have not studied emptiness carefully. They haven't yet been able to
study emptiness carefully, (A). (B) if, if... (B) is by your description of emptiness they would
become frightened. (C), very important: they already have the wish for Buddhahood. They
already have Boddhicitta in some form, okay. Obviously not the real thing which is very
difficult. But they already have the intention to try to reach Buddhahood for all sentient
beings. They are already on the Boddhisattva ideal. It does not have to be the full form of
Boddhicitta, which is almost impossible to [unclear]

Student: Are you saying you shouldn't teach them emptiness if they...?

We didn't get, we didn't get to the punchline yet. I'm still describing the qualities of the
person to whom you should not teach emptiness.

Student: And they have Boddhicitta?

Student: And they have the wish?

They must have the wish to achieve enlightenment for all sentient beings in some form, okay.
It can't... it doesn't have to be complete, total...

Student: You shouldn't teach to somebody with that?

Yeah, but you'll see why in a few seconds, okay.

Student: Did you say that they already have the wish?

They already have it. They must already have some kind of intention to reach Buddhahood
for all sentient beings. That's, this is the condition. They have to be like that. The person
must be like that. Why, we'll get to later. In a few seconds, okay. Je Tsongkhapa takes the
time to identify what, what you're teaching them. {[Unclear]} means "emptiness which is free
of all elaboration'", you could say, or "projection". Anyway, pure emptiness, total emptiness.
You're teaching them the ultimate meaning of emptiness. There are different kinds of
teachings on emptiness. You are teaching them the meaning of pure emptiness. We can call it
pure emptiness. Then there is a very important part in Je Tsongkhapa's text. He says, "What
must occur with that person for you to break the vow is the following: They must become
afraid and turn away from the Mahayana, give up the Mahayana and embrace Hinayana.

Student: I'm sorry. Did you list all five already? He said there were five characteristics
that...

I didn't say five.

Students: How many are... Four? [unclear] I've got three.

I don't even know. I didn't say. I didn't say there'd be a number.

Student: Three.

Student: A,B,C.

Not very Gelugpa, right. [laughter] Anyway, this is what happens.

Student: You said give up Mahayana and embrace Hinayana?

You teach them emptiness, they get scared, they are already Mahayana people, they give up
Mahayana and they decide to go for Hinayana, exclusively. Je Tsongkhapa says one more
thing about it. He says, "After... " You know, this is... you have to realize again that the
Boddhisattva vows are spread out through all these ancient scriptures, they were collected
together at different periods and time, and Je Tsongkhapa is struggling to... , as he did his
whole life, to clean up the whole thing and figure it out, decisively. And he says, "I've
checked out all the scriptures available to me, and it seems like, if you check the person to see
if they're... have studied enough and if in your best judgement they have studied enough and
then you teach them emptiness and then they get scared and turn to the Hinayana, you have
not committed a {satung}." Okay. If you have used your best judgement to check the person
first, and you have to be wrong, you don't collect a root breaking of the vow.

Student: But emptiness is a quality of Hinayana as well.

Ah, they call it selflessness. And it has a different interpretation in the Hinayana. So we're
talking about... that's why we said ultimate, the ultimate, the high, the pure meaning of
emptiness, the one which would most likely frighten someone. So now you, now you've got
the whole thing. So, you know, I know that I've met Americans who were telling me, "Oh,
you have to be really careful about teaching people emptiness because you'll break your
Boddhisattva vows." Some people think that if you teach anybody emptiness you break your
Boddhisattva vows. And other people think that if you teach emptiness to people who
haven't had much Buddhism you break your Boddhisattva vows. And now you see the
condition under which you break your Boddhisattva vows. Obviously, if you teach someone
emptiness who's not prepared and who doesn't... who never heard of Mahayana or Hinayana
and if it freaks them out or if it turns them off, that's very bad. And it's probably a very
serious bad deed. Secondly, it's obviously, to me, I mean, it's probably one of the worst sins
you can commit, to teach somebody an idea about emptiness that you cooked up and you
don't know anything about it, and its something weird and the Buddha never said it and you
see that all over the place, you see it all over. And hopefully by the end of these courses
you'll be able to just walk up to that person and say, "Let's debate. Show me the Buddha ever
said that. You know, you're totally mistaken. This is crazy and you're hurting all these
people. You're teaching them something very strange and that's not what emptiness means at
all. Probably if they're not mentioning morality in immediate conjunction with emptiness
then there's something weird going on. You know. They, they are brother and sister and
they have to come together. And probably if they're not teaching karma immediately in
conjunction with teaching emptiness there's something weird going on. Some kind of
incomplete idea about emptiness. Or wrong, that's, that's another possibility. But that's not
breaking your root vow. To break your root vow you must be Mahayana already; they give
up Mahayana and they embrace Hinayana.

Student: I assume this only covers one-to-one personal teaching and not publishing or any
other form of teaching.

It doesn't say that, but I... I'd say if you... it seems to me that if published it would be similar.

Student: But you have no way of checking your reader.

[Laughter] I know. Maybe that's ...[unclear]. I got to get out of this one. I'll ask Rinpoche. I
know I can tell you subjects if you publish it you break your vows. But I, I mean if you
allow, if you publish it knowing that people have not had initiations can read it, you break
your vow. So, I don't know, you know... I'll ask Rinpoche, thank you. OK, so that's
{majong toniten}. Although, I should say about that, you know the Tibetan tantric scriptures
on the cover of the book often say if you haven't had an initiation you cannot read this book.
Which implies that publishers knew that somebody would try. And I think if you put that
warning on the front and someone still does it then maybe you don't think about it. I don't
know. [Unclear] It seems to me, it's difficult to say, I, it's very bad if it happens and it
probably will happen if you print a book for public distribution and you know it's probably
gonna happen. Okay. {Dzogchen do} repeat. {Dzog... dzogchen} means samyaksambuddha it
means total Buddhism, total enlightenment. I always used to wonder why they said "tomo".
Why do you think?

Student: Nirvana.

I mean, enlightenments's enlightenment, you know. Can you have a half-enlightenment?

Student: Nirvana.

Student: Yes.

Nirvana's enlightenment?
Student: It's not total enlightenment.

Yeah. The lo... two dhayana nirvanas are sometimes called Buddhahood, are sometimes
given that name. So we have to put the adjective "total." Meaning the Buddhahood which
you get if you practice Mahayana. You go all the way to total enlightenment. {Dzog} means
"to turn someone back." And again, Je Tsongkhapa analyzing it: the person whom you turn
back must be a person who does have the wish for enlightenment. Okay. Maybe not in his
total form... probably not in his total form. They do have some intention to achieve
enlightenment for all sentient beings. They have entered the Mahayana teachings, the
Mahayana way. And the way you turn them back is very specific. And I'll just quote
directly from Je Tsongkhapa. It says, "you could never follow the six perfections. So you
should go instead, you should make your goal instead one of the nirvanas of the, of the
Hinayana teachings and then you'll be free from samsara, you'll be free from suffering. And
Je Tsongkhapa says in his best understanding of it, which means he's kind of allowing for the
opposite, okay. The person... to break the root vow, the person actually has to give up
Mahayana. Okay, not only do you attempt to dissuade them, but you succeed and they give
it up. They turn away from Mahayana.

Student: So then again, they can't practice the six perfections and so what should they do?

Say, look, the six perfections... How is John Stillwell ever going to reach into his eye-socket
and rip out his eyeball and hand it to that guy standing at the front of the subway entrance if
he asks for it? Which is what ... exactly what Nagajna[sp] did, more or less. I mean, how
could you ever do that? Just give it up man. You can get out of suffering, follow the
Hinayana path, perceive emptiness, perceive the four noble truths, and you can get to
Nirvana, relatively speaking, much more quickly, much easier. You could never go through
all those Boddhisattva practices, give it up, man. [Laughs] And then if the person actually
does, you commit a root... you break a root vow.

Student: So, do you have to specifically say you can't do six perfections? I mean, you could
say like...

No, I said, you can say the five, or the four...

Student: Well, no, I mean, you could just say like well this is too hard.

Yeah, what it... its like saying, describing it and how hard its gonna be, how long its gonna
take and then give up. It does not have to be all six perfections.

Student: You just tell them its too hard. Don't do it.

Boddhisattva activities are beyond you. You will never get there. You might as well just go
for Nirvana.

Student: It is equally bad if they [unclear: (lose it?)] entirely?
Probably worse I would say. [Laughs] But this is... I'm not... this is the classic form of
[unclear]... That would be {chikong} or something like that. You see what I mean? I'm not
sure which root vow that would come under. It would probably come under [unclear].

Student: Then presumably this is somebody who actually was capable of fulfilling this
potential?

Everyone is. Bodhichatvatarya says, {drambu shadam nechang mi}. It means... in the chapter
on effort it says... if bugs and flies and worms can achieve total enlightenment then I guess I
can too if I try. You know.

Student: ... it's got a motivation [unclear]?

It doesn't say. Doesn't say. It may say; I didn't put it in my notes. After the first four it
doesn't always mention the motivation. But normally it would have to be one of the three
poisons.

Student: A lot of these questions refer to the Hinayana. [unclear] If one, like in this one, if
you dissuade the person from any kind of Buddhist thought at all, you're [unclear] everything
is gone, since [unclear]...

Yeah. It'd be covered. Because the bad deed is when they give up the Mahayana. It's not
that they have to turn to something else. You've described how easy it would be to follow
Hinayana but the bad deed is when they turn away from Mahayana. And not necessarily
embrace Hinayana and not necessarily embrace Hinayana in this instance. So... if you've
dissuaded from all Buddhism you've covered Mahayana also.

Student: You think it's a system of back-up against the vow of not believing that somebody
can't reach enlightenment? Isn't it like a duplication? Once you take that vow doesn't it
cover all of that?

You mean the wrong-view vow where you say it's impossible to reach Buddha, or something
like that?

Student: Right.

Yeah.

Student: Doesn't it include you wouldn't, you could never tell anyone? One would never
know if someone could have [unclear]...

Je Tsongkhapa loves these kind of questions. I bet he would say, the {lopta} is your thinking
that thought. Your thinking it's impossible for a human being to become perfected, which
many Christians think. Okay. That's a very... we were talked into that when we were kids,
you know, that you could never become God, you know, God... you could like be real good
and reach heaven but you could never become perfect.

Student: Jesus never said it though.

Well I know.

Student: Okay.

So that, but that's the thought occurring in your own mind without saying anything. This is a
result of a verbal that you talk a person out of it and they decide not to do it and then they
turn away from it. See that's a... it's a different thing. But they're very common... there's a lot
of overlap when we get into the secondary vows. Je Tsongkhapa spends a whole section on
explaining why they're different. So it's a good question and its gonna come a lot more when
we hit the forty-six secondary vows. Which I like 'cus I always used to wonder why they
kept repeating them.

Student: [unclear]

Okay. Say {sotar pong}. What is {sosotarpa}? Do you know? {Pratimoksha}. What is
{Pratimoksha}?

Student: Freedom.

Student: Freedom.

Yeah. The freedom vows, meaning seven or eight types. All individual freedom vows
because if you keep them yourself you will get free and if somebody else does not keep them
themselves they will not get free. So it's really an individual thing. It's a personal thing.
Basically vowed morality, either of a layman or of a, of an ordained person. Three kinds of
layman's vows and five kinds of ordained person's vows. {Sotarbom}. {Bom} means "you get
someone to give it up." You convince someone to give up the {pratimoksha} morality.

Student: This doesn't apply to you then?

No. It's interesting, see. You gotta learn all these things. I never knew them. How could we
be keeping them. We're suppose to {tundruke}. We're supposed to be {tundruking}. You're
supposed to be covering these six times a day. And checking yourself if you have any of
these so you don't die if you have one on your conscience. Who is it that gives up the
{pratimoksha}, he says? It's a person who is keeping the {praktimoksha} properly. This
person is a... is normally an ordained person, they're keeping the pratimoksha quite well.
You know, they're happy with the pratimoksha, they're practicing it, they're keeping it. It
doesn't have to be an ordained person if its a... if its a pratimoksha. It could be a layman also.
But they are keeping their lifetime vows nicely.

Student: And you have to know that?
That... normally to commit a real {lekelam}, a totally bad deed, okay, [laughs], in every res...
totally complete in every respect, you have to have what's called recognition. You know,
you have to realize that so... that they are what they are, to commit the bad deed. So I would
say probably yes, but he doesn't cover it specifically. The way in which you do it is very
specific. You tell them... and by the way, what I am about to say is a wrong idea, okay, its
not the truth, alright? You tell them, "Why follow the pratimoksha? Come over to Mahayana
instead and by, by having Boddhicitta and by studying the Mahayana you will thereby be
able to eliminate all your bad deeds. You don't need pratimoksha. Come over to
Mahayana..."

Student: "You don't need those."

 "... give up this." I had... oh, it was in, okay. It's a common idea. Why do you still have to
be a monk if you can take Boddhisattva vows? And you know the answer. Its best to be a
monk and keep the Boddhisattva vows. [laughs] And that's the, that's the combination. So
this person is obviously not understanding that keeping your normal morality is the basis of
keeping the Boddhisattva vows.

Student: So, if you just say to someone, "What a pain in the butt. Why are you doing all
that. [Unclear] ... it doesn't count."

What do you think about it? What'd it have to be?

Student: You'd have to have them to come over to [unclear]. I'm not just discouraging them
from making effort and working hard and...

Right. But I don't know. I wouldn't want to take a chance [laughs][laughter].

Student: According to this though, it's, you know...

Technically. Technically. I don't know. I don't want to say okay. I'd say we have to avoid
the whole thing, okay? So that's {sotarbom}. You guy's are sleepy; no one arguing with me
or anything... I don't know. Say {nyimu}[repeat]. Nyin stands for {nyinta dharangye de
thekpa} which means, "the two Hinayana tracks" one is called the "listener track" and one is
called the "self-made Buddha track". There's two Hinayana tracks, and the word {nyin} stands
here for both of them. Listener track in Hinayana... the typical teaching there is on the four
noble truths; truth of suffering, truth of the cause of suffering, like that. Presented in a
Hinayana... with a Hinayana motivation in a Hinayana way. The self-made Buddha path,
track is neither... those people are neither self-made nor Buddhas, but we call them self-made
Buddhas, okay. They're self-made in a sense that in this life they didn't have a teacher. But
they had thousands and thousands of teachers in their past lives. So it looks like they didn't
have a teacher in this life, but they did. And then Buddha means they've reached, they're
looking to reach a lower enlightenment, nirvana. Just nirvana.

Student: What do you do with these people?
Anyway, those{nyin} here... the word nyin here means lower, it means Hinayana track, one
of those two Hinayana tracks. You're reaching, you're striving for good... you're striving to
end your own suffering. And you're not doing so to help all other living beings. That's
Hinayana track. {Mu} means to, {mu looing} means to put it down, to disparage it, talk bad
about it.

Student: Sorry, can you repeat Hinayana again.

Basically, its working to get rid your own personal suffering and not doing so because you
want to help all other living human beings. And the bad deed here... the root... when you
break your root vow its because you say the following about that Hinayana track.. You say,
"No matter how much you studied those Hinayana teachings, you cannot remove your
mental afflictions in their entirety... you can't reach Nirvana." And that's not true. It is not
true. You can. You don't have to enter the Mahayana teachings to end your own suffering,
and you don't have to enter the Mahayana teachings to remove your own mental afflictions
permanently. You can reach nirvana through a study of the... through practicing the
Hinayana path. You can. So you break this vow when you say to somebody, "It can't, it's
impossible."

Student: Is that something that occurs when you say it?

Normally, it occurs when they grasp what you said. Now let's see if he says you have to
give it up. No. It's just when he understands what you are saying.

Student: Without even... without accepting it, just grasping it?

Yeah. Normally its when they... {korchong}... when they get what you said. What it means
is, you tell it to a child... If you tell it to Bodhi, you don't break a root vow. She doesn't
grasp what you're talking about. She never heard of Hinayana... Or if you tell it to Rusty the
dog, you do not break a root vow. It's normally... these vows of speech are broken when
the other person grasps what you're trying to say.

Student: You use the word enlightenment instead of Nirvana?

Excuse me?

Student: "...can't reach Nirvana." [unclear] it say can't reach enlightenment? Total
enlightenment.

He just says "Nirvana."

Student: Well, it would be accurate in that case.

It is accurate. Yeah. That would be accurate. If you're referring to Buddhahood itself.
Okay? This is very, very common and we have to be very careful in... We are Mahayana
Buddhists, we're studying Tibetan Buddhism, we're studying Boddhisattva ideal, and its very
common to hear people put down Hinayana teachings like Sri Lanka or Thailand and say
that they're dumb, or they don't know what they're doing or... That's very common to hear
that. But, you should know, that in Tibet they study the Hinayana teachings I believe more
deeply than they do in any other country. We spent ten years on the Abhidharma. It was
the first thing we did in the monastery. We study it, we enjoy it, we get a lot out of it. Its... it
is spoken by the Buddha. It is the Buddha's teaching. It's meant as a tool to get you up
higher. And its beautiful... the teachings are very, very... The people who took the karma
course know that. They did a good dose of Abhidharma. And all the monk's vows, all the
teachings on Vinaya, they all come from Hinayana. As practiced in Tibet everything is
Hinayana. So its very beautiful and very wonderful. And its very stupid to put it down. It
means you haven't studied it, basically. If you've studied it you would appreciate it.

Student: I have a question. I thought there was no such thing as total Buddhahood. I mean
there is, like a high level, but you always have room to progress.

No, there's a level you reach where that's it. Totally perfect. Yeah.

Student: And what's the difference between Mahayana and ...

We had that debate in the monastery. [laughs][laughter] I remember this debate 'cus
somebody said, I was saying, "you could make it... it could always be more perfect 'cus you
could be a Buddha longer. You know, like, isn't it better to be a... to have been a Buddha for
two years than to have been a Buddha for one year? Isn't it twice as good in a way? We had
this horrible debate all night onetime, and, I don't know, we didn't decide much, but the
teacher said I won [laughter] [laughs]. He said, "No, its perfect from the first moment. I
mean, you can't get more enlightened than that, than perfect. It's very interesting, when you
see emptiness directly, for the first time at the path of seeing, you never see it more perfectly
than that. I mean, you either see emptiness directly or you don't. When you see it directly...
its not like you improve on it, you know. [laughter] It's not like twenty years later when you
see it again you ... that, that seeing it is better than when the first time you saw it. Its just a
pure total perception of emptiness. A Buddha has extra qualities going on while he sees it
but... but his perception of emptiness directly is in a way as pure... your first one is as pure as
his, or hers.

Student: So when you reach emptiness... How do you know when you reach emptiness if
you're not thinking? Supposedly you're not supposed to be...

Seeing it directly? While you're perceiving it you don't know your perceiving it. And, after
you finish, you realize that you do. Okay. You missed that class. That was a [unclear
(emotional?)]. [laughs] [laughter]. Okay. We'll do one more, then we'll take a break. There's
a missing vow. That's cool, huh?

Student: Missing vow?

Yup. You can call it 14b.
Student: I noticed that.

How about fourteen and a half? That's easy. [laughter] Seriously. It's a vow in between 14
and 15.

Student: Missing from the short form and not normally in the list [unclear] is what he's
saying.

It is missing in the list. They always count eighteen. They never say nineteen. There is really
nineteen, even before you break them out.

Student: And what is it?

I'm about to tell you. [laughter] {Dhakta shinla}. Sound Familiar? What's {dhakta shinla }?

Student: Praising yourself and...

Praising yourself and putting-down others.

Student: Sounds familiar.

No objections.

Students: We had that. We had it already. [laughter] [laughs]

Yeah, we already had that one. That's why Shantideva left it out. Remember these are
coming from two different sources. The first four came from where?

Student: Maitreya.

Maitreya Asanga. And then the other fourteen came from...?

Student: Various places.

Thirteen from one sutra, one from another. But when Shantideva, when he gets up to his
time he, he says, we don't have to count this one because it's the same as, as Asanga's first one
so we don't have to mention it. It was actually a separate... it was found in the sutras also.
So, when Geyshe Tsewang Samdrup, the tenth Dalai Lama's teacher, writes his text, he
actually describes this whole vow, but the interesting thing is that there's more detail about
the vow. So that's why its good to know. And I'll tell you the detail. It's still for the same
reasons. What were the reasons? Why did you praise yourself and put down others?

Student: Fame and gain.

Either one. Material gain or you want fame, other people's admiration. But, its very specific
here. It says, you have to be a person who's reciting Mahayana text, who's studying
Mahayana text, who's teaching Mahayana text. And you have to go around saying, "I'm a
Boddhisattva. I'm doing all this with no regard to material gain or fame. But that guy over
there, who says he's a Boddhisattva, is doing it for money, or fame." That's the whole, the
whole context in which you break the vow. It's really accusing another person of teaching
or studying or reciting Mahayana teachings for their own gain, for bad reasons.

Student: Is this to prevent, like, schism?

Well, it's very natural to think that... and that's what I want to say next. Like, a schism, to
create a split among Buddhists is pretty much the most serious bad deed you can do. We
studied that in the karma course. This would be like the classic way that it happens. And
you can see... you can hear me do it sometimes. You have to stop me. [laughs] That's
another thing about Boddhisattva vows, you know. The nice thing about learning it in a big
group is that we can help each other, you know. If you hear me start to do it, you have to
say, "Eh, eh, Boddhisattva vow, man." [laughter] No, that's a great benefit of having a lot of
Dharma friends. When we're around each other we can control each other. We can say, you
know, "You're not supposed to do that. Why are you doing that. That's a Boddhisattva vow?"
So that's the classic way in which it takes place.

Student: But what if, what if they...

Student: If they have the wrong view and the wrong motivation?

What, what wrong view?

Student: I mean, that this person is teaching the wrong teaching when they were actually
teaching the right teaching.

It's not accusing him of teaching the wrong teaching. It's saying, "he's doing it out of a desire
for gain or fame."

Student: When he [unclear] he doesn't.

He's not a real Boddhisattva. There's a long debate about whether or no he... it's a lie or not.

Student: But, it just doesn't matter if it's a lie or not?

Je Tsongkhapa finally says it seems to be, according to most texts - which doesn't nail it
down, right? - that it should be a lie. But that seems to leave it open for it not being a lie.

Student: So, if your motivation is that kind of motivation [unclear]...

Alright, here's the motivation coming here. The motivation must be jealousy for the honor or
gain that other people are getting. The motivation is jealousy. Now I'll tell you one more
thing, okay? Very interesting. Je Tsongkhapa at this point says, Master Shantideva choose
not to list this as a separate vow and Master Shantideva said that he didn't do that because this
one was completely equal to the first one. So Je Tsongkhapa says that probably implies that
to break the first one there has to be these circumstances going on. You're jealous of
somebody else's getting attention or honor of people and you attack them and you say that
they are just a fake Boddhisattva and you're the real Boddhisattva. He says.... but he doesn't
say it's definitive, okay. So we have to be careful of all the forms of... he says "probably."
Probably, given that Shantideva didn't make it a separate vow, and said that it was equal to
the first vow, then Asanga's first vow is probably involves all of this context where you're
accusing someone else of being after money or fame and teaching for that, studying for that.

Student: So then you're breaking two vows at one time?

How so?

Student: Well, number one is two vows [unclear]...

Well, he, he kind of says that... Let's say you did... you praise yourself and put down another
person, for these motivations, you would break number one. And number fourteen and a-
half is the same as number one, so I don't think you break... you don't break it twice, you
don't break two. Because Master Shantideva didn't even, he left it out because he said it's the
same thing.

Student: So it doesn't [unclear]...

It's not a separate vow.

Student: And who said this about what Shantideva?

Excuse me?

Student: Who said this about Shantideva?

Oh, Je Tsongkhapa is describing how Shantideva said, "Since this vow is pretty much equal
to the first vow we don't have to make it a separate number." "And since Shantideva
describes the vow as being a Mahayana person who puts down another Mahayana person it
must mean" says Je Tsongkhapa, "that the first vow also implies the details of that saying..."
In other words, what I want to say, and I, I know that when I was... first took these vows
many years ago, had this fuzzy understanding of them, and I thought that if I ever said
anything bad about someone else I broke Boddhisattva vows. It's not like that. These are...
these have to be pretty much evil things, because they wipe out your chances to reach the
first Boddhisattva bumi in this life, when you do 'em. So, they have to be... I mean, they
have to be like destroying a city or spitting in the face of someone who literally comes to you
as their last desperate hope to save their life and you say, "No." You know, I mean, it has to
be, these are pretty serious. Talking somebody out of practicing Mahayana. That's very
serious. It has to be pretty... As you study them more and more deeply you begin to see that
its not just the things that you thought when you first heard them, you saw them listed in a
book, you know. It's not just teaching emptiness to somebody who's not quite ready. It's
getting them to a point where they give up Mahayana 'cus you gave them a bad explanation
and freaked 'em out. And they give it all up. That's a much different thing. So you start to
get this feeling of how they're really violent and evil and specific, you know. Of course the,
the other things, you know, the other variations where you're at work and you praise
yourself and put someone else down that's very serious but it's not breaking your
Boddhisattva root vows which are so serious that you cannot achieve the first bumi in this
life, according to Je Tsongkhapa. Yeah?

Student: {[unclear]}.

We didn't get there yet. That's fifteen. That's after the break.

Student: I see, so you're referring to something that's not written.

Right. It's not in the list. Two more questions and then we got to take a break.

Student: The example you just gave of putting someone down at work... I mean, the
definition you gave is putting them down for the respect or admiration of others and that
breaks your vow.

And now Je Tsongkhapa says, it looks like it's more specific than that.

Student: Oh, I see, Mahayana. to Mahayana..

And that's why I've been waiting until I got here. He says, according to how Shantideva
explains it, it looks like, and it makes sense, that it should be as serious as attacking another
Dharma teacher in New York and saying that this person's out for money... and, and I'm not.

Student: Is it only that first vow then that's Mahayana to Mahayana. I mean, it wasn't clear
last week whether [unclear]...

Ah, what did he say. Yeah, he says, he clearly says Mahayana a couple times.

Student: First vow? The other vows also?

When he gets... number one, right?

Student: Yeah. Only that one.

According to what... you know, he says, "looks like that."

Student: Well, would that be breaking the vows if that was true?

He says, "looks like" [laughs] "it has to be a lie."

Student: But, if it was true and...
But I'll tell you, to confirm it would almost take the ability to read the other person's mind,
wouldn't it. We have to be really careful.

Student: Or your understanding of the Dharma, depending on what you're teaching.

But remember, you have to be accusing that person of teaching for the purpose of gain.
Personal gain. And, and you know, it's very typical that a Dharma teacher can collect a mass
of huge wealth, ride around in a Mercedes and not have that motivation at all. It's quite
possible. You have to be really careful. Better to just leave it alone, you know. That's the
point. They could be a high Boddhisattva who's doing it for some specific reason and you
just.... We gave the example in the logic class we had. We heard about some poor soul who
accused a Boddhisattva of going to the town out of some kind of desire and as a result
hundreds and hundreds of births, horrible births, and, and, and when he was, finally reached
enlightenment and when he was called Shakyamuni Buddha said, "Be careful about that," you
know, "I wasted thousands of lives." [laughs][laughter] { [unclear]} Very famous. We use it to
open a lot of debates. Don't judge other people, just leave it, could be really wrong. Robert,
and then we got to take a break.

Student: It seems like, for us Westerners, its pretty popular for us to call other people
hypocrites. You know, especially in a religious sense. But it seems that this is specifically
geared to the motivation where you are jealous of them and that's why the accusation
[unclear].

There does have to be this motivation. They're jealous of... they're starting to attract
followers, they're starting to attract people and you, you don't like it.

Student: You lust after what they do.

And you, and you, and you, and you start to criticize them. Okay, we'll take a break, come
back in... we'll make it on time, we're doing pretty good.

[BREAK]

{Subsem mah}[repeat], {Subsem mah}[repeat].

Student: Is it {subzem mah} or {subzem mah}?

{Hitung mah.} {Ma} means "mother." {Mah} means "talk."

We were talking about the lama who passed away and we were recalling the class he had on
{[unclear]}. And they screened the candidates for the class but the lama wanted everybody to
get in, and the administrators didn't want everybody to get in so he was in charge of
administering the exam, you know. And I had just gotten there the day before in South India
and I really wanted to take the class. So he says to me, "What does "ah ma mah" mean in
Tibetan. [laughs] And I said, "Ma means its right." [laughs][laughter] Think fast. {Ma Ma}
means "mother" also. Okay. {Subzem ma}. {Sub, sub} stands for {submo}. {Submo} means
"profound" or "deep." It's a, always a code word for the teachings of?

Students: Emptiness.

Emptiness. Okay? Here it'd be first emptiness. {Zem} means "a lie, falsehood, to speak a
lie." {Mah} means to "say." So it means "to say a lie about the profound." What does that
mean? And I read you straight from Je Tsongkhapa. First all there must be another person
and he must under... he must grasp what you're saying, okay, that's the context. There must
be another person there and you're telling him or her about something. And when he or she
grasps it you've committed the breaking of your root vow. And the way in which you,
you... The lie you say is as follows. I'm teaching you emptiness, I've seen it directly, I love
you so I'm teaching you about it, you will see it directly, you will be able to do just what I
did. If it's not true, but as a lie. Basically the circumstances are this. I've seen emptiness
directly, I like you, so I'm teaching you emptiness, and if you do just what I say you'll see
emptiness directly too. And it's all a lie, the person has not seen emptiness directly.

Student: So do all components have to be...

It's like those diamond dealers, you know. Michael, its only 'cus I like you that I'm giving
you this diamond. I'm not making any money at all. [laughs][laughter]

Student: [unclear] over and over.

Oh, every day, trust me.

Student: Does that incorporate self-illusion?

Oh, does he think he's seen it?

Student: Yeah.

Doesn't seem to be that way but it could be.

Student: Does that also involve infraction of perceptual understanding or just direct
perception?

He's talking directly.

Student: Does this aspect of liking a person have be there or you could just say, "look, I've
seen emptiness, you do what I say, you can see it."?

He's saying he likes him.

Student: I know, but is that necessary to break the vow?
Oh, he mentions it but I don't believe its necessary. I don't believe it has to be part of the lie.
I, I, I want to help you, so... you know, I don't believe that has to be part of the lie. He's just
saying, "I've seen emptiness directly, you do what I say, you'll see it directly too."

Student: In Asanga's first when he actually says this thing [unclear]...

Not when he says it; when the other person grasps the meanings of the word, the meaning of
the words. He says, by the way, if you're a monk... he left because he got confused about
the schedule he already took this class, but, let's say that, I mean I would have asked him the
question. That's one of our four {pamba}. {Pamba} means one of our four most serious bad
deeds is to lie about our spiritual level. And so when a monk who's taken his Boddhisattva
vows does this one he collects a root, he breaks a very, very root vow of a monk's vows and
then he breaks his root vow of his Boddhisattva vows. A monk collects really two, root
vows in two different systems, breaking root vows at the same time.

Student: What if the person actually has some emptiness, but is just giving bad advice?

If you've seen emptiness directly, it's be very unlikely that they'd give anybody bad advice.

Student: That would make 'em worse.

Almost totally... almost impossible.

Student: 'Cus if they...

Almost impossible.

Student: If they've seen it they, they've by definition don't, they claim, I mean, they do not
say that they've seen it, because they're no longer, they're not a Boddhisattva [unclear]....

It would be extremely rare for a person to outright say that they have seen it. Part of the
experience.

He says, he makes a point, its not very important, but we have time. [laughter] It has to be
for any reason except jealousy.

Student: Say that again.



[END SIDE ONE]



It's a lie, right. It's saying I saw "emptiness directly" because you're jealous of somebody else.

Student: Isn't it sort of, if you say "I have seen emptiness...
Directly.

Student: "directly", that means that by using the words that way you are separated from it,
you have seen it?

During the direct perception of emptiness...

Student: Excuse me?

During the direct perception of emptiness the subject and object are indivisible in the sense
that you can't perceive a relative object. But, it doesn't mean in any way that you become
one with that object. And that's a common perception. And that, we had that in the last
class. You should have been there. [laughs] Okay?

Student: I'm thinking about if I see that.

Yeah, the words are indivisible and people get confused. Non-duality, people get confused
by those words. They don't mean that.

Student: But what if we lie about [unclear] out of jealousy?

Then its, I believe, {dakta shinla}. I think that's what he's trying to say.

Student: But you're not criticizing someone. You're not criticizing someone.

You don't have to be doing both, remember?

Student: Oh, it's one or the other?

Shhuuuww. [laughs] Michelle, did you have something? No?

Student: No.

Okay, forgot it. Good.

Student: Say {Choksum}[repeat] {Khorlen}[repeat]. {Choksum}[repeat] {Khorlen}[repeat].
{Choksum} stands for... {khor choksum}, what's that?

Student: Three jewels.

Three Jewels, Three Ratnas. Buddha, Dharma, Sangha. {Choksum}. {Khor} we've had before,
up above. We had {khorchok, khorchok, khorchok}. {Khor} means to be... anything that
belongs to the Three Jewels. Which basically means anything that's been dedicated to
spiritual use; of a center or a temple or a monastery or a group of practitioners, or any kind of
food, money, house, books, images. Any thing that in that sense belongs to the Three Jewels.
We had [khorchok korchog} which means "to steal the belongings of the Three Jewels." But
this one is "to lend." Lend means to accept. ACCEPT. To accept it.

Student: Accepting stolen goods.

Yeah. It's accepting stolen goods. And it happens like this. He said,... Je Tsongkhapa says,
normally the scenario is like this. You know, it doesn't have to be like this. The officials of
the country decide that they like one monastery and they don't like the other monastery. So
they, and this happens in countries like Thailand, Sri Lanka... I'm not saying they're bad
people there but I mean, in countries where they have thousands of monasteries you could
have this kind of thing happen. Where they actually force one monastery... they put a
punishment or a tax on this monastery and say, "Oh, you had a bad monk, you have to give
us a thousand dollars." And then they take that money and give it to the monastery that they
like. When those, when the people in the second monastery take it then that's {khorchok
khorlen}.

Student: You have to know it's stolen.



Normally you do. Somebody asked me about that because like all these thankas floating
around Hong Kong that were stolen from Tibetan monasteries and stuff. Normally, to
commit a totally bad deed you have to recognize the object as having been... normally.
What else does he say? That's all. He also says that you don't have to steal it with your own
hands. If you send your men to go steal it for you.

Student: This is not receiving it... this is not stealing it. I thought you said this is receiving it.

Oh, I'm sorry, he says stealing. He's referring back to the other one. When I said stealing it
can be... Well, he also in this one... if you're like the king and you send someone to... no,
you're still... you would do the... it would be the stealing. Same thing. Okay, number
seventeen. Say {timnyen}[repeat], {cha}[repeat], {timnyen}[repeat], {cha}[repeat]. This {tim} is
the {tim} in {tsultim}. This {trim} means "law, or rule." A {tim} building is a courthouse, a
{tim} general is a judge. A {tim} cutter is a lawyer [laughs], meaning a, an analy... a person
who...

Student: Dissects?

Who, who, who cuts the fine points in a... court cases. That's a {tim chucki}. So {tim} means,
"rule or law". {Nyen} means "bad". Like {dong nyenma} means "bad-face" and it's a, it's a,
something you say when you want to start a fight. I don't know what you call that.

Student: Provocation.

"You're a {nyen}-face", you know. [laughs] [laughter] So {nyen} means bad, ugly, [unclear].
{Cha} means "to institute." So it means "to institute a bad rule."

Student: [unclear]
Excuse me?

Student: I didn't...

{Cha} means "to start a bad rule, to make a bad rule." And it's very specific. The people that
you make the rule about must be Dharma practitioners. You're making a rule that, that a,
that's going to apply to Dharma practitioners. And what this refers to is that in a monastery,
for example, or even in a Dharma group, you'll have certain people who are attracted to the
meditative side of things. They are more attracted to spending a lot of time in meditation,
they like to do long retreats, at the expense of the study side. Then you have other people
who really attracted to the study side, they spend a lot of time with the books, they recite
everything, they memorize everything and if you walked into a monastery, and I've seen it in
Sera, and it happened in ancient times -- Shantideva was accused of this -- you could get the
wrong idea that the meditators are lazy and the people who can recite everything, and
explain everything, and read everything, they seem to somehow working harder. So this is...
you commit this bad deed when you go to the rooms of the meditators and you take away
their possessions and you reward the... to people who are, who apparently are working
harder, studying harder, you know, they're working on the knowledge-side, more of the
physical knowledge side. And they're both good, both groups are great, we would like to be
both, you have to be both. That's one of the hopes for the place in Connecticut, that we
could have a place to meditate because we're deficient in that in this group... we don't have a
place. But, but the point is you have to respect both sides. You can't think or assume that a
person who's spending a lot of time in meditation and can't recite all the texts and all that is
not making good progress. You have to respect that. And this is the opposite. This is where
you actually go and take away their things and hand them over to the people who are
apparently making good progress. You have to be careful about that idea. The classic
example was in ancient India. Master Shantideva, they called him {Duchisumbhava}. Mr.
Robert, what's that?

Student: [unclear]

Yeah, he can be like "Mr. Three-thoughts." They gave him a nickname, "Mr. Three-thoughts,"
'cus he just hanged out in his room all the time. One was eating, sleeping and pooping. They
called him... I mean, Shantideva was accused by all the monks in the monastery, most of
them, as being having only three concerns on his mind. All the time. And to get rid of him
they decided they would ask him to give the monthly lecture, or something, in the Dharma
hall and he would make such a fool of himself that they could ask him to leave the
monastery. So he accepted the invitation. To make sure he looked stupid they made a real
high throne and didn't put any stairs to get up on it. You know, so he would stand there and
try to climb up on it or something. And they say he walked into the Dharma hall, all the
monks were assembled, and, and there was this blur and then he was up on top, sitting quite
nicely. [laughs][laughter] Then he started to teach the Boddhisatvatar, you know, the
Boddhisattva's Way of Life, the Guided Boddhisattva's Way of Life. And, and he, and people
were, you know, astounded. Because that's probably... I mean it's one of the top ten Dharma
teachings ever given, right, and people couldn't believe it. And then he got to the ninth
chapter, which is the Perfection of Wisdom, and he got so profound that he started to levitate
off the throne. And so there were a few monks in the audience who had the ability and they
started to levitate too to keep up with him [laughter][laughs]. Finally he just disappeared.
[laughter][laughs] Nobody could follow him. And still people write separate commentaries
on the ninth chapter. And then he never came back to the monastery and they had to go
looking for him. [laughter] One day they found him in a cave and they said, they said,
"Please come back." He said, "I don't think so." And then they said, "Could you at least give
us the manuscript to this teaching." And he said, "It's in the rafters of my room, you can find
it there. Don't call people "Mr. Three-thoughts." [laughter][laughs] So what it means
[unclear], you can't disrespect the meditators. And this, this one is when you take their, you
actually take their goods. The people accepting the goods don't break the root vow. And it's
not their fault, they didn't initiate the action. It wasn't their idea... It might be {khoinchok
khotala}. When, though? Anyway. It's the people who took the thing. He says, it can't refer
to taking the possessions of an arya, who has seen emptiness directly, it doesn't refer to taking
the possessions of four monks or more, because those are what?

Student: The Three jewels.

Those are the Three Ratnas. Those are the {khoinchok}. Then its stealing the property of the
Dharma... Buddha, Dharma, Sangha.

Student: So is he trying to say that ordained people aren't one of the ThreeJewels? Is that
what he's saying here?

No, they're not. Four or more is {gendun}.

Student: Yeah, I know. But individually I'm talking about.

Individually, yes. Apparently not but I... anyway, I don't want to get too deep into it... He
says, the thing has to be anything which they enjoy the use of, anything they own. The
motivation has to be some kind of anger or hatred. Some kind of dislike for them. That's
interesting. And then he repeats that it's not, the bad deed is not committed by the people to
whom the things are given, the, you know, the scholarly types. It's not them collecting the
bad deed. It's the one who takes it away [unclear], who had the idea to take it away. Okay.

Student: Is this once again a way for emphasis.

This is all pretty much... I mean, I think you'd have to be the abbot of a monastery or... But
you could see... when you check yourself for these vows six times a day, [laughter] which is
a long time in the bathroom, okay. [laughs] People have to think you have a disease or
something else. And... [laughter] I mean, you're normally checking for how close you came,
you know. Is it in your mind that you don't respect meditators as much as the people that get
up and teach these [unclear] courses, you know? I mean, is that in your back of your mind,
you know. And things like that. And you have to search yourself for those attitudes that
could ever lead you to break it. Maybe in your future life when you're an abbot or
something. So, number eighteen. Last and most. Does that make sense? Not least. Most
serious one actually. {Sem}, {sem} means what?

Student: Boddhicitta.

{Sem} means mind. Stands here for {semkay}, which is Boddhicitta. {Sem} means Boddhicitta.
{Tong} means "to give it up, to give it up". Which of the two types do you think they're
talking about.

Student: Engaging.

Nope. [laughs][laughter] It's a... boddhicitta's in the form of a prayer or a wish, okay. It's
that, it's that, it's the original intention of wanting to reach enlightenment to help all sentient
beings. It's that frame of mind. It's giving up that frame of mind. Yeah?

Student: Is that the aspiring mind for oneself or the aspiring mind for other people?

It aspires that oneself should wish it for others. If you were here you would know? {semkay
pani shemeja [unclear]} We had that already. Okay. Je Tsongkhapa mentions, and I'm glad
because I didn't know, this is the one vow that came from the sutra on skillful means,
remember. There were thirteen from the Sutra of the Essence of Space and there was only
one vow from the Sutra of Skillful Means. He's a real logician, Je Tsongkhapa. He says, you
know, when you think about it, you can only commit this one for one second. Why?

Student: 'Cus after that it's done.

You're not a Boddhisattva the next moment. You break it: the first moment that you give it
up then the next minute you're not a Boddhisattva anymore to give it up.

Student: What does it mean to "give it up?"

[unclear] To reject the idea of the Boddhisattva ideal. To say, "I, I, I will no longer work for
the... I, I , I will no longer work for the benefit of all sentient beings. I don't... I will not... I
do not want to become enlightened for the sake of all sentient beings. I give up."

Student: How is it different than the prior vow of rejecting the Mahayana, which is...

Yeah, he talks about it.

Student: You know, it says, giving up either of the two aspects of the Boddhisattva path.

That one is given up by saying that it, in one case by saying that the Buddha didn't teach it
and in the other case by rejecting the whole, all the ideas of it. And this is, this is just by
personally deciding that you're not gonna do it anymore. You had it and you decided you're
not going to do it. Because you have to have it when you take the vows, right. Upon taking
the vows one of the conditions is you have to have some wimpy form of the desire to
become a Buddha to help all other beings otherwise it actually doesn't form, anyway. That's
the... this and one other vow are the two most serious.

Student: Well, which is the other one.

Students: Wrong-view:

Yeah. Wrong-view. These two do not require certain attitudes to be present in your mind
for you to break the root vow. All the other sixteen, you have to have four other attitudes in
your mind at the time that you break the vow. In the next class, is going to be all, wholly
devoted to those four attitudes, because it's a big subject. There's four really crummy, lousy
attitudes that you have to have, and they're very hard to have all at once [laughter], which is
good for us. To break a root vow you have to have all four of those really, extraordinarily
evil thoughts in your mind. Except for this one and the other, and the wrong-views. Those
two are so destructive that they don't require any other attitude in your mind when you have
them. And again, two things, I mean two things I'd like to say experientially, right. By now
you should be keeping the first nine and you should be enjoying seeing some kind of results
from it. And if you're not working on it you probably won't work on it later. You know, if
you don't work on it the first few days you first hear them the odds of your working on it
later are pretty small, you know. You should already be experimenting with these at the
office, you know. And, and checking yourself every day. And if you're not doing it now, I
promise you, you won't be doing it six months from now or eight months from now. This is
the time. Strike while the iron is hot.

Student: [unclear (You'll be in an eternal body.(?))]

And while your mind is on it, get into the habit of searching you heart every day to see if
you did them. You know, if you're like me and you don't have time to count all eighteen
every day, frankly, keep it in a little book and rotate. Do three today, do three the next day,
do three the next, but start now. If you don't start this week, I'm pretty sure you won't do it.
And, and then the next time you hear they have a Boddhisattva vow class you'll say, "I heard
it already. I know it all." And you'll miss out the chance. And then your life should
already... I've noticed a few people did because they came to me and we had some
interesting conversations so I, it's extraordinary. If you try it... just try it. Just try it
tomorrow, I mean, start tomorrow, you have a list, start... You're having the meaning now,
all eighteen, so make a Xerox, keep it with you, look at it every day, check off the ones
you've already reviewed. And start keeping it now. And you'll already get some... some
things will start to change immediately. Its very, its very fantastic. The virtue is incredible.
And things start to change in your life immediately. And if you don't do it now you won't
do it later, I promise you. You won't have time. And then you'll get {cheptok}. {Cheptok}
means "jaded." You'll get to the point where you don't... you say, "I heard all that before."
It's very dangerous to hear something once, 'cus the second time you're not interested, 'cus
you learned it already. So start now, start reviewing them. And then help each other, help
me. You know, you see this person breaking it, say something. I had the pleasure
someday... somebody today corrected me properly and I... and it was a student and I was
quite happy. I said, "Now, this is a benefit," you know. So correct each other, in a good
way. In a , in a... You're required to correct each other at a certain point but it has to be
with love and happy... and they say, "in a happy mood." Has to be done in a good mood.
So help each other. Let's all help each other keep them, and then, and we'll have a really
good result. Yeah?

Student: I have a two part question on the subject of doing these every day in the {tundrup}.
Can you comment on the quality of the translation that most of us have in English of the long
version that has all these vows in it; number one, is that, you know, pretty decent for those of
us just taking vows?, and number two, might there be a better translation floating around that
some American monk who shall remain unnamed [laughter]might not have published yet?
[laughs] [laughter]

I'd say the best I could do for you... I have two answers. One is, Geyshe Tsewang Samdrup's
commentary, which you all have in your hands now, is, to me, the thing that you should
carry around. I don't think the {[unclear] tundrup}... some of the vows are missing in there.
{Shakaminyen} doesn't mention striking another person. So, I, I would carry around this
thing with you.

Student: In the {tundrup} proper not in the [unclear]?

Yeah, it doesn't mention it in the {tundrup}. It's not mentioned in the {tundrup}. So I would
say that's the first thing. That's the first answer. I gave you the most precious one I could
think of. Kyabje Paboka was the one who turned us on to that. In two places in his writings
he says, "I'm not going to write anything about the vows because Geyshe Tsewang Samdrup
did it perfectly." You know, go get that book, you got the book. That's the first translation of
that book. So keep it. And then my dream is that somebody, talented person in this class,
like Mr. Brady or somebody, makes a little card that we can carry around with ourselves
with all the vows on it. You know, like, very short, like a little folded thing that you keep in
your wallet. You know like just two business cards glued together. And it has all the eight...
all the, all the sixty-four vows on it. [laughter] And maybe a little check-box next to [laughter]
[unclear] You could have a date on it, this is for the week of so-and-so. And you have fifty of
them at home and you carry them around. Atisha did that. Don't think it's silly. You see this
picture of Atisha, he's always got this stupa. He carried around an image of the Buddha and
it's a well-known fact that when he was riding around on his horse people hated to ride with
him because every time he had a bad thought he would get off the horse, put the Buddha
down and do his confessions right there on the spot. And all his disciples were standing
around waiting for him, you know. But he was the one who was intelligent enough to go
confess immediately. I think that'd be cool. I think that'd be a great service if we could make
something like that. And then, then you just carry it around with you and you check it every
day. At least once, you know. I think it'd be really great. Yeah?

Student: You're talking about reviewing each one of these every day, and, you know, we
just got done saying that its very difficult to break some of these; it very difficult to, you
know, praising yourself [unclear] and criticizing others, I mean, on the face of it, yeah, we all
do that every day but are you saying then take what's written hear and extrapolate it into
what we do want to do? I mean, a lot of these things you would not break.
Yeah. It's that concentric circle thing. Did we do that?

Student: No.

Oh, okay, here you go. And then we'll stop, okay. This is how one of my lama's explained
monk's morality to me onetime. This is... He says your morality has to be like concentric
circles. This is looking at a lady on the street. This is being alone with a lady in a room.
This is sitting on a couch with a lady. This is sitting on a bed with a lady. This is breaking
your vows with a lady. But he said, if you stay out here you'll never get to here. You know.
So that the concept of, of keeping your Boddhisattva vows is very similar. If you never
praise yourself and criticize others for any bad motivation, you'll never get to that ultimate
one where the other person's a Mahayana practitioner and you're a Mahayana practitioner
and you're accusing them of some bad motivation that you have no idea whether they have
or not. And, so if you never... What I say, and what I've found, is when you review your
Boddhisattva vows, when you get to the first one say okay, look, I didn't criticize Chogyam
Trungpa today, okay. [laughter] It's a good example. It's a very good example. We don't
know. We don't what his motivation was. So, but I did, you know, talk good about myself
and criticize the other merchandiser at work. [laughs] [laughter] You know. I mean, we do,
you know... But if you never break... Its very, it's a very, very important for keeping your
vows. Remember the con... We'll draw it on the, in... That'll be the embossed as, as a, what
do you call it?

Student: Lettermark. A lettermark?

Student: Watermark.

Watermark, okay Mr. Brady? [laughter][laughs]There'll be concentric circles as a watermark.
If you never praise yourself and put down someone else you're never gonna do it in the most
serious context of possibly creating a schism among people who are all supposed to be out to
save all sentient beings, you know. Yeah. One more question then we really...

Student: Okay. If you had... If someone had engaged in this behavior before taking the
vows?

Yeah, by the way, you have to have the vows to break them. That's... It may seem obvious
but I have to say that. You have to have the vows to break them.

Student: So, the rule does not apply that if you broke these, what would be vows, before,
that you can't go to this first...

Boddhisattva bumi?

Student: Yes.

Je Tsongkhapa says that's correct. In it... I don't remember if that's exact the context, but he
does say, he describes all the horrible things that happen to you if you break the vows, and
then he says, "Therefore, before you take them, you better examine yourself well." You
know, think about it carefully before you take them. Which would imply, imply that. It is
true that the more you know the worse it is. [laughs] Okay? With morality. Than not to
know, in some cases, you know. Once you know it's much worse if you break it.

END
Course 7 – The Bodhisattva Vows