ACI 6 «Сутра Алмазного Огранщика», занятие 9

CLASS NINE - APRIL 27, 1995
156A.TXT



student, John Stilwell: Describes Buddha going into to Ganden, emanating, going
into his mother's womb and then you describe the physical characteristics to
obtain Okmin, etc. Which of those things is the one that Maitreya did?... to get
into ... to create his paradise? It wasn't clear to me which was Maitreya's activity
and which was some other general description]

As a lot of things in Buddhism it's a general pattern of all Buddhas.

[student, John Stilwell: So what was one referring to versus the other thing
referring to? It wasn't clear how the two were separate from each other and
distinct.]

People ask me, "Why do you think Maitreya" ... because Maitreya, you know ... it
mixed up some people because they knew they knew that in one of the classes
we had we were talking about ... we debated about whether Maitreya was a
Buddha already or not. And there was ... the end of that debate is that you're not
supposed to mix up Tantra and Sutra. In Sutra, Maitreya is the coming Buddha.
He's not a Buddha yet. So that's a description of how he will become a Buddha.
But it's it's always the same pattern. You you leave your {tulku} in Ganden, you
go to Okmin, you actualize your Dharma body, you go back into {tulku} and
then you pretend to act out the twelve deeds on earth and it's the same for every
Buddha. It's the same pattern.

[student, John Stilwell: That's how you get to paradise. What's the other set of
descriptions once you're set, what was that then? You know, directly perceiving
the totality of knowable thing, reach the ...]

Those are simultaneous. I mean those are describing the same thing. They're
from different sections of the {b: Abhidharmasonkara} One is describing, you
know, the outer process that he goes through. The other is describing the inner
events that happen as he ... all of those happen at the moment he reaches Okmin
and actualizes his Dharma body. They're actually tied to that one step.

[student, John Stilwell: So what was the answer to the homework question.]

[laughs] If you mixed it up, I don't mind. Either one. What happened was I
wrote the homework and then I found the second reference [laughter] so I
thought you might like to know both. I think they're both useful to understand
how he becomes a Buddha.

[student, John Stilwell: Last question I have is about how seeing emptiness or
how studying [b: The Diamond-Cutter Sutra] purifies your negative karma. I
understand how how knowing about emptiness prevents you from creating
more negative karma.]

That's mainly it.

[student, John Stilwell: But how it cause past karma to ripen now and create
suffering now? I don't understand that.]

Yeah, what's the process by which the seed is triggered earlier or something like
that.

[student, John Stilwell: Why is it ...why when you study the sutra do you suffer
intensely now, or soon, or whatever.]

I'll just tell you what I think because I don't know. But I think it's that obviously
the main thing that would purify you of a bad deed is to strictly never do it
again. And you know that from your own intuition. If you ever ... if you have a
personal bad habit and like if you had ... if you were an alcoholic or something
like that ... and you overcame it, you know how how having stopped drinking
somehow purifies all the wrong you did while you were drinking. You know,
there's some kind of relationship between that.

[student, John Stilwell: So, what I don't understand is why then it isn't destroyed
versus it ripens as suffering, for example.]

Aaah. Well it was created by a bad thing, so it has to have a bad result.

[student, John Stilwell: Does that mean that you can't destroy karma without
experiencing some bad result?]
In fact they don't even say you destroy it. Ultimately when you when it stops it's
because you remove the the conditions which are required for it to mature. It
would be ... I think the process is like this ... you trying to remove every single
bad karma you ever collected would be like picking dandelions. You know
when you pick one and the seeds fall off and you know it would almost be
impossible but you create conditions which which are not conducive to its
ripening.

[student, John Stilwell: So perhaps in understanding emptiness you do eliminate
some from ripening completely and others are just partially ...?]

I don't know. I don't ... if I were in a debate I'd say, "No, you can't. They have to
ripen but they could ripen less."

[student, John Stilwell: I thought you could completely purify karma so it didn't
ripen.]

I don't think so. It's very interesting. Seeing emptiness mainly prevents you
from doing it again. That's why there's a path of habituation. That's why there's
a fourth path. If just seeing emptiness directly destroyed all your karma, there
wouldn't be any path of habituation.            You wouldn't have to apply what
happened in that five or ten minutes of experience the rest of your life. There
are only two mental afflictions that are destroyed by the path of seeing. And
that's doubt and intellectual belief in self existence. All the other ones are still left.

student, John Stilwell: I thought when we studied karma you said that when you
you damage the seeds to the extent that they aren't able to ripen, the causes and
condition aren't there.]

Then I'd say you're you can do that and you can reach a point like that but your
elementary understanding of emptiness created by studying the [b: Diamond-
Cutter] is only enough to make it ripen early, how's that? [laughs] [laughter]

[student, John Stilwell: Okay]

What's the process

[student, John Stilwell: I was going to let it go. [laughs]]
Oh, no. I don't know. What would the process be? I don't know. There's
nothing in the scripture where they obviously explain that. The [unclear] says it
many times, that it ripens quicker and less, you know. How or why?

[student, Ariel Holdsworth: Is it ripening less because it's less powerful simply
because it doesn't accumulate the same amount of worth because it's ripening
sooner?]

I don't get that feeling. I don't get that feeling.

[student, Ariel Holdsworth: But, that's a big part of it, no?]

I don't think so. Because if you died today with that on your conscience it would
still send you to the hells, I think. You see what I mean.

[Student, Vilma: Can you use the analogy of a seed ... if you put a seed and
some sort of weird mixture of soil you get ... you don't get a full tree but you get
some like weird mutant kind of living thing.]

[laughter] You get a stunted tree.

[student: But isn't it based on the quality of its root?]

I I don't know. I can't say exactly but I think it has to do with ... I'll ask
Rinpoche ... first of all and secondly I would say it has to do with the fact that you
do the ... one of the four forces which is the most powerful really which is that
you just stop doing the thing and I think that has an effect on the karmic seed of
having done it in the past. I believe the act of retraining yourself in the future is
the main force that prevents the karma from ripening slowly. Maybe it means
that continuing to water that seed in ... with the same water that it was planted
with, you know what I mean, makes it ... I mean stopping that ... the habit is is
the most powerful thing for stopping the power of the karma, I think. I believe
that.

[student, John Stilwell: And it may be stopping the habit, also, as the fact of
causing all those similar seeds to assert themselves]

Maybe. But I can't say that I've seen anything like that in the scriptures. I haven't
seen it go beyond that.
[student, Ariel Holdsworth: But the imprint won't be as strong. The longer it
goes on ... the longer you live continually to do that ... all the lifetimes you go
through]

I understand that. It will be deeper, yeah. I don't know. I don't ... I haven't seen
that explained. There is debates about it in the [b: Tengyur] which probably
there might be some more information about it there. I could show it to you.

[student, Sherrill Kratenstein: It's not a satisfactory response.]

Yeah, I know. I haven't seen anything that explains it. I'll state the question
again. What's what's the process which makes the karma ripen earlier? I haven't
seen anything that explains why. I've only seen statements that and I've seen
arguments about why some people think it couldn't. [laughs] You know, it ...
but the [b: Diamond-Cutter Sutra] states it ... so. I don't know. I I can't say why.
I don't think I've seen ... you know we did pretty well with karma in explaining
how it replicates ... how it's carried in your mindstream. I don't kn ... there's
nothing in those scriptures that I remember that explains why it should ripen. I
don't know. It is the force ... it is the function of the four forces to make it ripen
earlier, but I don't know.

[student, Ariel Holdsworth: Can you ask the next time you go ..]

I'll ask Rinpoche, yeah.

[student, Amy Krantz: What's the source of this?]

I don't think I told you guys the source of this point. [laughs] laughter] And
that's another thing that found it in the computer. There is a sutra called the four
dharmas {shushi me do} ... the sutra of the four dharmas and it actually explains
the four forces. So I think there is a ... some suspicion among certain Buddhist
schools of the of the teaching of the four forces ... that you could actually lessen
your karma or that you could effect your karma and I think, you know ... you
get the feeling from some schools that they say, "Oh the Buddha never said that"
or something like that. But I found the sutra. The sutra's there. It's very short.
It's one page. It says, "Here's the four forces and this is how ... this is what they'll
do for you." And it talks about having a headache. And that's all there is. The
Buddha did state the four forces.         It's not even something that the later
commentaries came up with. It is in the [b: Kangur] You can read it. So I
thought that was very good to see that ... to find that, you know. Cool right?
Anything else? All right. Sometimes in a debate you just try to change the
subject. [laughs] [laughter] If he's a good opponent he brings you back. Okay
we going to ... the sutra at this point reaches a place where Subhuti says to the
Buddha, "What should we call this sutra? What is the name of the sutra?" And
the Buddha says ... (writes on blackboard) Say {sherabkyi} [repeat] {paroltu
chinpa} [repeat] You know this one by now, I think. {paroltu chinpa} means
{paramita}. {Paramita}. And {paramita} means perfection, right? We talked
about it. It's interesting to me that no where in the [b: Diamond Cutter] does the
Buddha call this book the [b: Diamond Cutter]. The book ... the word diamond is
never mentioned in the [b: Diamond-Cutter Sutra]. When Subhuti asks the
Buddha directly, "What do you call this sutra?" The Buddha only answers, "This is
the perfection of wisdom."

[student: [unclear]]

To me it's a very very wonderful question. We'll never know but someone drew
the link, you know, between those two things and someone gave it that name,
you know. Whether ... I don't know who. There's no record that I'm aware of,
you know. It's been called that since the first time a printed book was printed
because this was the first printed book. But I haven't seen it. I don't know, you
know. It's very beautiful. It's very interesting. Someone understood the
connection and and gave it that name. Or maybe the Buddha gave it that name.
I don't know. So he answers only, "It's the perfection of wisdom.", okay.
There're four different kind of the perfection of wisdom. We're going to go
through the four. Choney Drapka Shedrup starts to go through them and then
he says, "Ah, it's a long story. I just go on." [laughs] [laughter] Sounds like
somebody else, okay. Maybe he was going to do it in the fourth year of his
class. [laughter] (writes on blackboard) People have this thing about Buddha
nature ... buddha seed ... there's this innate Buddha in everybody if they could
just uncover it. There is something similar to that ... this has no connection with
that at all, okay. [laughs] [laughter] Totally different, all right. And we'll study
that other thing some day. And it's very beautiful. It's very interesting. It
doesn't mean that but it does mean something similar. What do you guess is
national ... is natural perfection of wisdom? I'll give you the rationale for calling
it the natural perfection of wisdom and then you guess, okay. It's some object
which for time without beginning has never inspired a bad thought in anyone ...
who saw it directly. [laughs] [laughter] Which is what?

[student, Laura Segal: The emptiness of everything]
It is emptiness, okay. And that's that's why it's called natural perfection of
wisdom. Is it ... we'll talk more about that. But it it it has never ... anyone who
saw it directly ... it has never inspired a bad thought in them, okay. You could ...
you can't say that about any other object. You can meet the Buddha himself.
There are people who are who are bitterly jealous of the Buddha. There are
people who tried to harm the Buddha while he was on this planet, you know.
Arhats have been killed all over the place. Bodhisattvas are beaten up ,you
know [laughs] and despised by, you know ... there's only one object like that.
Where when you're looking at it directly it can never contribute in any way to a
bad thought, okay or anything to do with a bad thoughts. Interesting. So that's
that's ultimate reality. There're all synonyms. Is it positive or negative?

[students: It's negative]

It's negative. It's an absence of something. Does it have a cause or it doesn't
have a cause? No cause. Things that have causes fluctuate. They come into
being. They grow. They slowly grow bigger. They fluctuate and then they
slowly die out. They die out in stages. Emptiness isn't like that. As soon as the
wall is here, its emptiness is here. As soon as the wall is destroyed its emptiness
is gone. But the emptiness doesn't get bigger, bigger, bigger, bigger and then
fluctuate and then get smaller, smaller, smaller, smaller. It's not that. It's not like
other caused things. It doesn't fluctuate, okay. So it's negative. It's uncaused.
It's unchanging. The emptiness of the wall never changes. It just the fact that it's
not anything other than our projections. It's never more or less not our
projections. Anything but not our projections, [laughs] okay.
It's always just that. It's never changes. It's never more or less nothing but our
projections, okay. Its quality never changes. It is consistent. It's unchanging. It's
it's uncreated. It does come into existence. It does go out of existence. (writes
on blackboard)

[student, Vilma: Intellectual understanding, I guess?]

Intellectual would be something mental. It's the books. It's defined as ... any any
teaching, verbal or phy ... or written that unerring presents the Mahayana path
and its results. So does it have to be a sutra? Does it have to be spoken by the
Buddha. No. This is what they call the [b: Perfections of Wisdom] sutras, okay.
And oftentime people get confused. They mix up [b: The Perfection of Wisdom],
meaning those that collection of literature with the actual mental state of the
perfection if wisdom.
[student, John Stilwell: So when you say it presents unerringly the Mahayana
path and result, does it necessarily have to be about emptiness or could it be
about anything?]

There's no Buddhist ... it's a long story ... normally in a debate you would say
something like, "All Buddhist books are talking about emptiness. Some are not
talking about it directly." [laughs] or something like that, okay. Like the [b:
Ahbidharmaakara], you know, a huge masterpiece ... I mean, it's short but the
commentaries on it are tens of thousands of pages. It doesn't treat emptiness
directly.

{student, John Stilwell: So refuge, bodhichitta, all those things, are included in
this?]

Not necessarily. Yeah, you could say. Any any book that teaches say refuge
would be teaching the Mahayana path and its results. I don't know ... could you
say that? Yes, the Mahayana path and its result, right. If it mentions the results
of, you know ... normally when you're teaching on refuge and it mentions the
benefits of taking refuge and that include the benefits of reaching Buddhahood
and so forth. Does it have to teach the entire path? I don't think so.

[student, Ariel Holdsworth: Just the fact that it mentions Buddhahood implies
emptiness [unclear] to get there.]

We'll get there. [laughs] That's coming tonight. Okay, so that the textual
perfection of wisdom. That's the books. Number three. (writes on blackboard)
The path perfection of wisdom is defined as the wisdom of a bodhisattva imbued
with wisdom and method. Wisdom and method when they are presented that
way, as a pair, wisdom and method are a code word for what?

[student: Emptiness and bliss? Emptiness and compassion?]

What's ... are you mixing two [laughs][laughter] Code words for perception of
emptiness ... correct view and what ... what's method?

[student, John Stilwell: Bodhichitta]

Bodhichitta, okay. Desire to reach Buddhahood so you can help other beings.
The definition of the path of the perfection of wisdom is the wisdom of a
bodhisattva which is completely soaked in [laughs] the understanding of
emptiness and the wish to achieve Buddhahood so you can help other beings. In
other words, compassion. Soaked in ... the reason they have to say soaked in ...
or imbued with is that when that bodhisattva is on the path of seeing ... the first
half of the path of seeing ... can he have a manifest thought of bodhichitta?
Cannot, okay, because that would be a conceptual thought. He can't have a
conceptual thought while he's perceiving emptiness directly. So what? He's he's
not a bodhisattva for that five minutes? You see. Does he lose bodhichitta for
that five minutes? Because he's not having it directly. So they have to say
imbued. Imbued means it's there. It's in his consciousness ... sub-consciousness?
It's it imbues his entire being but it's not manifested at that moment. Guess who
has the result of the perfection of wisdom? That's a Buddha, okay. It's the
omniscience of a Buddha.

[student: [unclear]]

Now the question is if I say restrict yourself ... well no, that's going too far ... well
okay ... restrict yourself to the true meaning of the word perfection, which is
what? {paramita} gone to the other side, right. Gone to the other side. If I say
restrict yourself to the strict sense of {paramita} of perfection, which one of these
is the perfection of wisdom? Number four, okay. If someone asks you on your
homework which one is the real one, you know. That's what I mean in that
sense, okay. If I say restrict yourself to the meaning of perfection in the sense of
"perfected", it has to be number four, okay. But we all know and we all
remember from that other class we had that what qualifies you as a {paramita} is
what? When it's dedicated to enlightenment. That's enough to call it {paramita}.
That's why bodhisattvas can have ... what? {paramitas} [laughs] They're not
Buddhas. It's not "perfected" in their case. It's making them perfected. So perf ...
it's enough that you can be called a perfection ... you get the name perfection if
you just dedicate it to Buddhahood in a ... with a real bodhichitta, okay. Once it's
that, it's the perfection of wisdom. Should I say what real bodhichitta? ... maybe
not. You can practice the perfection of wisdom before becoming a bodhisattva.

[student, John Stilwell: What do you mean real bodhichitta?]

There's two kinds of bodhichitta. There's {chercan chin} and real bodhichitta.
Anyway I would say probably you can practice the perfection of wisdom even
before you have true bodhichitta. We can practice the perfections if we dedicate
them to Buddhahood. Apparently, it's the dedication, okay. Which one is the
Buddha talking about in this ... when Subhuti asks the Buddha, "What do I call
this book?" ... which one is he talking about. Number two, okay. It's it's the text,
okay. You can call this book the [b: Perfection of Wisdom]. It's a case of the
book being named from its subject matter. The name of the book being being
given from its subject matter. It's like calling a book about automobile repair,
automobile repair. [laughs] or something like that, okay. It's not automobile
repair. It's a book about automobile repair. But you can call it automobile
repair. All right. So those are the four kinds of perfections of wisdom. And then
the Buddha says to Subhuti, " Does this perfection of wisdom exist?" and
Subhuti, being the smart guy that he is, since he's Manjushri, says what? "No."
And the Buddha says, "And that's exactly why we can call it the perfection of
wisdom." Okay. I'll run it by you again, okay. [laughs] The Buddha says to
Subuta ... to Subhuti, "Is this" ... don't forget where he's coming from. In the
sentence before Subhuti asks the Buddha, "What do we call this book?" And the
Buddhas said, "The perfection of wisdom. And Subhuti, do you think it exists?"
And Subhuti says,"No". And the Buddha said, "Right, and that's why we can call
it the perfection of wisdom."

[student, Ariel Holdsworth: And if there was another sense we can say really
say it's the perfection of wisdom and he would have to say No]

Yeah. Right, okay. That one sentence ... that last exchange ... where the Buddha
says, "Does this perfection of wisdom exist ... even exist?" And Subhuti says,
"No". And the Buddha says, "Right, that's why we can call it the perfection of
wisdom." In that one sent ... exchange is contained the whole meaning of
Madhyamika, okay.          And now we're going to get into that. (writes on
blackboard) I want ... I missed something here. This one is positive or negative?
It's an absence of something. Changing or unchanging? Unchanging. Created
or uncreated? Uncreated, okay. Constant ... perfectly constant in its quality or
not? Does it ever vary? No, okay. By the way what causes the variation is the is
a flux in the cause. When the cause fluxes the result fluxes, right. That's
important later. Is the textual perfection of wisdom ... is it positive or negative?
Positive. I mean the book is in your hand, right. [laughs] You've got it in your
pink notebook there. That's the per ... textual perfection of wisdom. Changing
or not? Changing. Created or not? Created. It can be destroyed ... in which of
the five hundred million years ... [laughs] laughter] right, you know that, okay.
Is it physical or mental? It's physical. It's either of the nature of speech or or the
written word. It's either visual form or audible. Audible or visual. It's
something you hear from a teacher or something you read in a book. And
mainly Buddhism that's heard, okay. Path perfection of wisdom is ... well mental
or physical.
[student: physical]

Pheewe! [laughs] Mental.

[student: Isn't it both?}]

No, it's the state of mind imbued with ... the wisdom of a bodhisattva imbued
with bodhichitta and knowledge. Mental.

[student: But doesn't your body change in course of events]

Yeah. The body changes in course of this infamous wallet. It doesn't mean the
wallet is changing. Right? Okay. Path perfection of wisdom is mental, okay.
How about ... and it's positive and it changes and it grows and it dies away, all
right. How about result perfection ... how often does it die away? yeah like that.
{Sack damey} they call it.{din din din din} It peaks it peaks and dies out every
second ... every milisecond.

[student, John Stilwell: Why is that? Because your mind is changing?]

Yeah. The cause changes. Result perfection of wisdom is is positive or negative?
Positive. Is it created? We hope so. We're trying to do that, right. [laughs] Can
it die out?

[student: Hopefully.]

It does. No, the wisdom of a Buddha, the omniscience of a Buddha?

[student: everything]

No, of course, it is changing. It does die out moment to moment, okay. Even
the Buddha's wisdom dies out moment to moment, okay. Will it, you know, it
ultimately die out? No. It doesn't have to to be changing. It doesn't have to be
called perishable. Because it's perishing by the instant and something positive
and something mental, okay. So don't get ... so these are big ... these are totally
different and don't get confused between them. The books are physical, the last
four are mental and the first one is emptiness itself, not mental or physical. It's
just an absence of something, a negative thing. Lot of people get them mixed
up. If you remember those qualities, you won't get them mixed up. Okay.
{madhyamika} What does {madhya} mean?              By the way {ika} and {aka}
sometimes you see {madhyamaka} ... they're all the same. They're just Sanskrit
endings ... generic endings. {madhya} {madhya} is directly related to the English
word ... what? Medium okay. And you gotta see {madhyamika} like ... I'm I'm
not a very good artist, as you know, you know. Here's the here's the goal, right?
It's a cave on a mountain, right. And here's that winding path, okay ... and it and
it goes along a cliffside, okay, on each side. It's it's suppose to be like that.
{madhyam} middle path ... middle way philosophy means ... it treads a path
between two cliffs. And those two cliffs are called in Tibetan {Ta}, okay. There's
one over here and there's one over here. You can't see it, right? [laughter] It's
what they call the two extremes. But the word {ta} extreme is explained in all the
scriptures ... all the major scriptures ... as referring to {dar lam} {dar lam} means a
cliff. And and when you hear the word extreme now in Buddhism you have to
think of it that way. It's literally described in the scriptures ... in the great
scriptures as a cliff. A cliff that's, you know, on ... an abyss on each side, you
know. Not just a ditch, okay. It's like if you fall off that cliff ... that's it. It's
thousands of feet down, okay. That's what {ta} means. {Ta} doesn't just mean
extreme. It means ... it's literally defined in the text as {dag young} {dag young}
means ... {dag} means a rock mountain crag and {young} means abyss. And and
it means a cliff. A cliffside, okay. Edge of a cliff, you can say. How's that? Edge
of a cliff. If you fall into either one ... I mean, a physical cliff like that ... what
happens? You die. The books don't only say die. The books don't only say die.
They day {purrum jur} {purrum jur} is an unusual verb and it means to waste
something precious. It means a big waste. A great loss. It doesn't just say you
lose your life or you lose your... you know ... you suffer or something like that ...
it says you get wast ... you get wasted. You have a tremendous loss. So we have
to describe {madhyamika} ... this is {madhyamika} right? And we have to
describe those two ... those two edge of the cliff ... edges of the cliff, okay. Cliff
edges ... cliff, what do you call them? Anyway ... edge of a cliff. There's an edge
of a cliff on this side and there's an edge of a cliff on that side. And all the
scriptures say the same thing. If you wander over here and go too far it's worst
than dying. Dying only screws you up for ... how many lives? One, okay
[laughs] Falling off this cliff screws you up for countless lives. You can screw up
for many many lives. Thousands of years of less of waste ... waste of time. so
you have to know those two {ta}s. You have to know them very very well,
okay. You have to study them a lot. The first one is this, okay. What's {yu-ta}?
Salt Lake City.

[student: It's Mormon country [laughter]]

Say {yu-ta} [repeat] {yu-ta] [repeat] {yu} means what ... you guys know that.
Most common verb in Tibetan language. Exists, okay, exists. {yu} means exists.
{ta} means that ... you can call it extreme and all the books will call it extreme and
it's not a bad translation but think of it as a cliff. Cliff edge ... edge of the cliff.
And it's saying ...if you go to a hundred people standing around at the Port
Authority for a bus and you say, you know, "Look around. Does everything
exists the way it looks to you?" And they say, "Well, yeah. Do you want a nickel
or something? ... do you want a quarter? ... what do you want?" [laughs]
[laughter] you know. "What's your problem", you know. Fine way to talk to
you I guess. I mean if you go up to a hundred normal Joes, right, on the street
and you say,"Is all this stuff around you pretty much what it seems to you to be.
Does it exists the way it seems to you?" They'll say, "Well, sure", okay. And that's
the extreme of existence. It's called the extreme of existence, okay.

[student: How come [unclear]]

Well, we'll get there.

[student, Robyn Brentano: Does this also include the belief in a sorta eternal
soul?]

We'll talk about it. We'll talk about it. And then there's another extreme.
Specifically, when someone get a bad teaching about ... what? Emptiness, okay
[laughs] [laughter] It's a reaction to to a bad teaching on emptiness. It's when the
teacher says, "It doesn't mean anything ... it's all an illusion ... you're not seeing
anything at all ... right and it's invalid" ... okay. And then the person swings ... it's
like a pendulum on a clock. He's been over here all this time and then you let go
and it swings over to the other side ... and then he says, "Oh then then I can do
whatever I want." It's that famous story ... I think we talked about it ... Joanna
Macy talks about it in one of her books. It's like ... they went to a Buddhist
conference at a hotel and they're all walking home together, through the lobby,
and one girl's suitcase drops and it breaks open and all these hotel towels fall out
and the girl is all red but she says, "Well, it's all empty, anyway. It doesn't matter,
does it that I stole the towels from the hotel?" you know. And that was her ...
that's classic {me-ta}. That's classic {me-ta}, you know. Because the towels are are
empty or because the towels don't exist the way I thought they did, well then I
can steal them and then nothing really matters then. Things can be what ever I
want. Human nature would love that to be true, right? [laughs]
you know.

[student, Laura Segal: That only exists in in respect to the teachings on emptiness.
It doesn't refer to like all the kin ... forms of nihilism that have ...]

No. And that's why I don't like to translate it as nihilism. It doesn't refer to the
classical french ... I don't know how to pronounce his name ... Sar... Sartre's
presentation on why nothing means anything. No, it's normally a classic
reaction to to some elementary or introductory teachings on emptiness or
insufficient teachings on emptiness and the person swings over to this ... so how
many people in the Port Authority in line there ... there's a hundred people
there ... how many people have {me-ta}? Extremely rare. You know, it might be
one or two people out of the whole Port Authority at a given time, okay. {me-
ta} is a reaction. {me-ta} is not very common. It's takes intellect and bad
Buddhist education to have {me-ta}, okay [laughs}

[student, John Stilwell: What is {me-ta}?

Mainly it doesn't exist. So that's the extreme of thinking that things don't exist.

[student, Robyn Brentano:         Could you have good Buddhist teaching and bad
karma?]

Sure. Okay. By the way, I have to clarify one thing, Very very important. The
{ta} is the reality or the truth of this statement and this {ta} is the truth of this
statement. The real {ta} is the truth of this statement. (points to blackboard) And
the real {ta} here is the truth of this statement. (points to blackboard)

[student, John Stilwell: What did you say {ta} meant?]

Cliff ... I like to call it edge of a cliff but you can call it ... you can call you can call it
one inch past the edge of a cliff if you want.

[student, John Stilwell: I don't get what you mean by cliff is the truth of the
statement?]

Well I'll talk about it. {ta} is the truth of this statement. (points to blackboard)
{yuta} is the truth of this statement. Now here's the punch line for Mr. Stilwell.
Is this statement true? No. It's not true at all. {yu-ta} doesn't even exist. The
extreme viewpoint that everything exists the way you think it exists is a falsity.
It doesn't exist. The object of the viewpoint. What the viewpoint is focussed on
doesn't exist. Does the viewpoint itself exist? Does the belief exist? Yes. That's
why we distinguish between the {tar} and the {tarnzin}. It's not like tarzan but
it's close. {tarnzin} is the wrong belief in this crazy idea. The {ta} is the crazy
idea ... or the object of the crazy idea. It doesn't even exist. The fact that things
look the way they ... are the way they look doesn't even exist. Right? It's not
true. It's like saying the sky is green. The sky is green doesn't even exist.
Believing that the sky is green ... believe ... exists or not? You can be crazy, you
know. You can be drugged out wearing green sunglasses ... you could say, oh
man, the sky is ... traffic lights turn blue, or something like that. So it's important
to understand that the {ta} ... the object of the belief ... things existing the way
they look ... doesn't exist. Things don't exist the way they look, okay. It's a little
subtle. The object of the belief doesn't even exist. It's like a self existing person.
It's like a guy at work who is who is a bad guy from his own side. Does that
exist? No. Does anybody hold to that? We all do. I mean that after all these
teachings I had someone come up to me and start telling me how bad their boss
was. [laughs] You know. I said, oh man. [laughs] [laughter] I was agreeing for a
while. "Yeah, I have the same problem. Isn't that really bad." And then I caught
myself. [laughter] You know. I just badtalked the person that's going to
perpetuate it, you know. The guy looked ... the guy at work that is really bad
from his own side ... the way he looks to be bad ... is tough. It doesn't exist. It's
the purple elephant and holding to it ... or believing to it ... oh, definitely, that
exists. Even bugs have it. Bugs have {yug tarnzin" Bugs have it. Bugs believe
that what they see is correct, okay. What about? ... then you have to say
{tarnzin} over here too, okay. This is a {me tarnzin}. You hold to that. But it is
interesting to note that the thing doesn't even exist. I mean, Buddhism isn't
trying to get you to recognize some new thing. It's just trying to get you to see
that what you always thought wasn't even there. It's not that you have to
imagine that the thing's not there. You just have to recognize that it was never
there in the first place. It's a lot easier. And mahyamika means treading up
through those two. Going out to those two.

[student: [unclear]]

It's just the opposite. It's to hold ... it's the belief in the truth of this statement.
And this truth ... this statement's false. This statement is false. This doesn't exist.
It's not true that a thing weren't the way you always thought they were that they
couldn't exist at all. It's not true to say that the towels are just your projections ...
you can steal them with impunity. It's not true. That's a falsity. That's {me-ta}.
To believe that is {me-tarnzin}, {mepa tarnzin}, okay. The object of that belief
doesn't even exist. That lady was having an hallucination in a sense. It's just a
falsity. It doesn't exist. The fact that you can steal towels if they're empty is
totally wrong. There's no such object. And madhyamika goes up to the middle
of that. Now, a question that Robyn asked ... there's another ... there're two
brothers of these two. And this is ... you know, I don't want to confuse your
overload. It's also called {takta}. {ta} is the same, right? It means what? One
inch past the cliff {laughs], okay. I don't know what you want to call it. We'll call
it the extreme, okay.

[student: Over the edge]

Yeah, over the edge is pretty good. {Tak} means permanent. {takpa} permanent.
It's the extreme of thinking that things could last forever. It's what they call in
the books on Buddhism ... it's what they translate as eternalism. But I'll explain it.
I'll explain it in a minute and you'll catch it, okay. If the guy at work that is bad to
you ever becomes your friend ... if he ever changes into your friend ... what
really changed? Your projections, okay. Your projections. Which are forced on
you by your ...?

[students: karma}

So what really shifted was your ..? Karma. Your karma wore out. It stopped
forcing you to have that projection and the guy seemed to get nice. Did he get
nice on his own? Did he get nice from his side?

[students: No]

No. Did he change? No. Your projections shifted. If you want to get rid of bad
guys what should you do? Stop stop collecting the causes for those lousy
projections. Shift your karma and and and the the tightfisted boss you had will
become generous and the asshole at work will become your best friend. And
39th Street will open a pizza parlor, you know [laughs] [laughter] It's a shift, you
know. It's a shift in your projections. Truly, truly it is. That's key to getting
enlightened. That's key to practicing tantra, obviously. That's key. Very very
important. That the whole ... if you know that, everything's possible. If you
don't know that, nothing's possible. If he changed from his own side ... if you're
going to sit around and wait for him to change from his own side you sit around
for ... eternity. {takpa} That's the implication of holding {yu-ta} If you're going
to believe in this ... if you're going to believe that he's bad from his side ... you're
going to wait around forever for him to change. He can't change. That's
eternalizing. That's the real meaning of eternalism in Buddhism. You know, and
I think when you read the books, sometimes it's very unclear. That's that's not
clear. The point is is if you believe in {yu-ta} ... if you believe that he looked ...
that he exists the way he looks ... that he's bad from his side ... then he then his
badness, his evilness has to be permanent. He'll always be bad. He'll never die.
He'll never get a little nicer. He'll never get worse. He'll always be just the same,
cause it's not dependant on you. It's not dependant on your projections. Then
he's going to be that way forever. He'll never change. Because something will
never shift ... what? Your projections, [laughs] okay. If he doesn't depend on
your projections, he's going to be that way forever. That's that's a necessary
consequence of believing in {yu-ta}, okay. So {takta} is a derivative of {yu-ta}.
Yeah?

[student, Tom Kiely: So what's the difference between sitting around waiting for
him to change versus sitting around and waiting for your karma that you're
experiencing to change?]

Same thing. Same thing

[student, Tom Kiely: So then, what can you ... you can't do anything about it
then ... in either case, right?]

That's why we talked about purification. You can clean it out. Cause it to
change. You're saying you have to sit around and wait for your karma to ripen.
That's why we went over the four forces. It's exactly why we went over the four
forces.

[student: Tom Kiely: No, if you have no choice. It's forced upon you because of
your karma ]

That's true. Yeah, collect some good karma and it will be

[student: Tom Kiely: You don't have a choice and you do have a choice. If you
do have a choice to effect the karma that's coming your way then you actually
do have a choice that you're not using. That you're sitting and waiting for your
karma to change]

Right. That's true.

[student, Tom Kiely: And if sometimes, if you do sit around and wait for it to
change it will change anyway]

Why do mean when you say anyway? Without ... without karma shifting? Is
that what you mean?

[student, Tom Kiely: I mean there is ... I didn't particularly work on any karma
sometimes for a situation to change for it would change anyway]

Yeah

END OF SIDE ONE



Hell beings can become human. That's why animals can become human. It's not
by any great ... the trick of getting out of an animal realm is real difficult ... you
just have to wait it out [laughs], you know. Unless you do some accidental good
karma. You just got to wait it out.

[student, Tom Kiely: [unclear] the process then ]

No, a human being can with wisdom. But not an animal or hell being. They've
just gotta to wait it out, until the projections shift. And those projections take
millions of years. Time slows down a lot ... part of a projection.

[student, Ariel Holdsworth: Because it's his projection shifted]

Excuse me

[student, Ariel Holdsworth: It's his projection [unclear] maybe]

For him but not for

[student, Ariel Holdsworth: It may change it for you also.]

Never, ever. Never, ever

[student, Ariel Holdsworth: [unclear] such a thing as collective karma]

Collective experiences ... collected karma, yes.

[student, Ariel Holdsworth: No, because there would be no body else out there.
If it's all a projection your projection ... everybody else here projections ... it's
really not ...you get down to that there's nothing out there. There's nothing
here.]

Because it's a projection there is not nothing out there. Hah! [laughter] You'll get
into that. I don't like to hear ... even though things are empty they still exist ... or
even though things are empty I still have to be good. That's a wimpy Buddhist
statement. That's a semi-educated Buddhist statement. The real one is ... because
they're empty I have to be good. Because things are empty I must be moral. It's
not that ... even though things are empty we still have to be moral. That's a
that's a wimpy ... that's a ... that's an un ... immature Buddhist statement. The real
mature Buddhist statement [ tape stops} We'll break there. We'll break there,
okay.

In your notebooks, in your readings this time, that's taken from
Tsongkapa and Pablongka and it's a line ... it's part of a verse by Tsongkapa
where he explains how to get rid of the two {tarnzin}, okay. How to get rid of
those two wrong ideas.          And he's he's describing the highest school of
Buddhism ... how they describe how to get rid of those two. It's not the same in
the lower schools and you can read about it in your readings. Basically, he says
that if you want to get rid of {yu-ta} ... which is what one? What does {yu-ta} say
to itself? Your {tarnzin} actually.

[student: Things are the way they are]

Everything is just the way it seems to me, okay. That's eliminated ... {sel} mean
eliminated or cleared away. {sel} is what a light does to darkness in a room.
When you flip on a switch {sel} is the verb for what the light does to the
darkness. Dispels it, okay. What dispels the belief that everything exists the way
you think it looks is {nangwe} {nangwe} means understanding dependent
origination. Understanding how projections work perfectly. Where does that
happen?     When do you directly understand it? When do you perfectly
understand it.

[student, John Stilwell: The moment before you start]

Yes. The moment before. That supreme Dharma. That supreme phenomena.
They call it the ... right at the last moments of the path of preparation ... before
you see emptiness directly ... you understand something very important about
{chichayda}, right?

[student, Fran Dayan: Everything you see has been at fault]
Yes. That you understand standing looking at the stove and realizing that you're
not looking at a pot, you're looking at your impression of a pot. You're looking
at your idealization of a pot. You're looking at something in your own mind,
okay. So this is ... this happens before ... what?

[student, Fran Dayan: Seeing emptiness directly.]

Before you see emptiness directly. What what Tsongkapa is saying is and what
the higher school of Buddhism says ... madhyamika prangsanika ... Najarjuna's
school ... Tsongkapa's school ... it says, ... you can get rid of thinking things look
the way that you thought they did. You can rid of thinking that things are the
way they look to you if you understand how you're doing your projections." If
you understand the process of those mental pictures that will remove the
tendency to think that things ... what? ... are the way they look to you. That's
makes sense, right? When you understand that everything is just your mental
images or your projections, then you're not going to have a problem anymore
of thinking that things are the way they look to you. Sure, the pot looks like it's
outside there on the stove, but at the ... especially at the last moments of the path
of preparation ... and as I look at it and understand that I'm just looking at an
idealized pot in my own mind based on certain data that I get from around the
stove, then I I'll never again believe that things are just the way they seem to me.
That's very profound. You have to "cook" that. It's very profound, okay. And
then, (writes on blackboard) {tongpe} means what? ... do you know? {tongpe}
means emptiness.          {tongpe} means the understanding of emptiness does
something. Does what? {sel} means dispels ... clears away like a light clears
away darkness. {meta} {meta} means believing that nothing exists or that
nothing matters.         It's what I said before ... because things are empty
everything ... what? ... does exists. Because things are empty, everything does
matter. Because things are empty, they can change. Because things are empty,
you can see yourself become a Buddha. Because things are empty, they can
become paradise. So if someone comes up to you and says, "Because things are
empty, nothing exists." ... it's totally wrong. Totally the opposite. He's saying,
"Because things are empty, you won't get the idea that nothing exists anymore."
When you understand emptiness you won't think that nothing matters
anymore. When you understand emptiness you will know why you have to be
moral. So those are two lines from Tsongkapa. That's Tsongkapa's crowning
achievement. That line there. It's beautiful. When Trijang Rinpoche wrote
Rinpoche's ... our Rinpoche's long life prayer ... at the end he says, {nangung ...
(rest in Tibetan)} He does an act of truth. Do you know what an act of truth is?
It's a Sanskrit concept. It's an Indian concept. Do you know what an act of truth
is? It means that you stand at the Ganges river and you say, "If it's true I never
have a jealous thought in my whole life, may the Ganges river flow up ...
upstream." And, you know, and it's called an act of truth. It an act ... the Buddha
did them from time to time, you know. His brother was very ill. The half
brother who hated him, who was jealous of him. Actually the Buddha took
some medicine and he took ... like one pill of medicine. Was he really sick? No,
he was pretending, okay. And his jealous half brother, when he got sick, said,
"I'm going to take twice as many pills as the Buddha took." And the Buddha said,
"Don't take this medicine. It's too powerful for you." "I can take any medicine
that you can take." So he took the medicine and he got really sick. He got ...
almost died. So the Buddha did an act of truth. He went to the bedside. He put
his hand on his half brother's head, you know ... on his forehead. He said, "If it's
true I never had a bad thought in my whole life, may you be cured at this
moment." And the the guy's eyes open and he sees the Buddha and he knocks
his hand off his head. "Get your hand off my head.", you know. [laughs] So it
was an act of truth. He was cured, at least of the physical elements, right. It's
called an act of truth. So {nangung ...rest in Tibetan} ... Trijang Rinpoche, at the
end of Rinpoche's long life prayer, does an act of truth. And he says... he says, "If
what I am about to say is true, may you may you live forever." Who? Khen
Rinpoche. Yeah, because he wrote his long life prayer. So he said {nantam gel
men} which means {namtam gel men} which means ... if if dependent
origination, "if the fact that you are projecting everything and the fact of
emptiness are perfectly compatible ... if every object must have both ... then, if
that's a true statement, then you should ... you should never die" It's beautiful.
That's the ultimate compliment of a of a Buddhist master. Another Buddhist
master. If it's true that everything is a projection and if it's equally true that
everything is empty, and if those two truths compliment each other ... if that ... if
I speak true at this moment, may you never die. It's really beautiful. The verse
is really beautiful. It's an act of truth. A true statement. Anyway. So you see
great Buddhist philosophers throughout history saying the same thing.
Nagarjuna said it. Tsongkapa said it. Trijang Rinpoche said it. Pablongka said it.
Okay, last thing and certain buses are leaving for Queens. [laughs] (writes on
blackboard) Say there's four great facts exists. They consists of two "don't exists"
and two "do exists". I guess I should say "do exist", okay. These are the two
"don't exist", okay. And it means this, {rangshin gyi} say {rangshin gyi} [repeat]
{rangshin gyi} means naturally. {me} means, here nothing exists. So what what
does that mean? Nothing exists naturally, okay. Nothing exists from its own
side, okay. {nyang} but ... we have to skip to {mayim}, okay ... Tibetan sentence
structure is obviously, okay [laughs] ... {mayim} means ... it's not that ... it's not
that ... here the {mepa} means nothing exists.      {mepa} means nothing exists.
{tenne} means at all. So what's it say?

[student: It's not that nothing exists from its own side but it's not true that
nothing exists at all]

Nice, okay. Nothing exists naturally but that doesn't mean that nothing exists at
all. How many nothing exists do we have there? Two. Those are the two
nothings ... those are the two "don't exists". If you understand these four, you'll
never ... Pabongka says it directly at the end of the reading, he says, "If you can
avoid those two extremes you'll never screw up your Buddhism."             You will
never make any major blunders in your Buddhist practice. If you avoid those
two extremes, you're you're going to be all right. He states that.

[student, Fran Dayan: Could you repeat that]

This one?

[student: Yes, nothing exists naturally but]

Nothing exists natur ... nothing exists naturally meaning from its own side but
it's not that nothing exists at all. That would be {meta tarnzin} That would be
holding that nothing exists because it doesn't exist the way you though it did,
okay. (writes on blackboard) Sherrill, if you're going to go, go ... because the
punch line is ... anybody can ... you can call anybody with that. And that's the
last thing. {tanye tsambu} means ... just in name ... in name only ... in name only.
{tanye tsambu} means is name only. {tanye tsambu} means in name only. By
the way in Buddhism, that means in projection only. Name means an idea in
Buddhism. You have to remember that. It's not that just ... things are just little
words taped on things obviously. In name only in Buddhism means in thought
only. In idealization only. In projection only. You have to remember that, okay.
{tanye} in name only . {gyur} {gyur} means everything exists. Everything ... so
that means so far everything does exists in name only, meaning in our
projections only. {nyang} you had above ... what does it mean? ... but {{nyang}
means but ... now we have to skip to the back because the Tibetans sentence
order ... {mayim} means what? The same thing ... It's not that ... {mayim} means
it's not that ... {yuk-dang} means everything exists ... {rangshin gyi} means
naturally, naturally. If you understand these four elements ... by the way I'll
state this one again. You can say it this way. It's true that everything exists in
name only, only through your projections, but that doesn't mean everything
exists naturally. If you can draw those four distinctions you will never fall off the
cliff and that cliff is a hell of a lot bigger than any cliff on earth, okay. That cliff is
deadly. That cliff is fatal. Most of the mass of humanity will fall off that cliff in
this life and and and and die and and and go to someplace bad, you know.
That's ... they will fall off that cliff. Madhyamika's very narrow way, right? Not
many people on that road, okay. So the distinction is this. It's true that nothing
exists the way it seems but it doesn't mean that nothing exists at all. It's true that
everything is just a projection and that it works but that doesn't mean that it
exists the way you thought it did, okay. You have to be able to make those
distinctions. You have to be able to make those four distinctions. If you figure
that out at home ... those four ... you understood the two {ta}s and you will
never leave the Madhyamika. Then you're a real Madhyamika. That's all it
takes.

[student: Could you repeat it just one more time]

Yeah. It's true that nothing exists naturally but that doesn't mean that nothing
exists at all. It's true that nominally that everything exists but that doesn't mean
that everything exists naturally. If you understand those four you ... you'll never
fall of the cliff. You'll be a Madhyamika. You'll reach that little cave up there on
the mountain top. All right. Okay, Mr Kiely.

[prayer: short prayer]
950501-1.AAA
Course VI: The Diamond Cutter Sutra