ACI 5 «Как работает карма», занятие 5

Class Five: How Karma is Carried
October 31, 1994



Last class we talked about what karma. We talked about the 3 divisions of
karma, what makes a good karma, what makes a bad karma. By the way, what
makes a good karma according to Buddhism? Anything that brings you a good
result. That's the reason to be good and the reason not to be bad. I think that's
very acceptable. And then we got into the different kinds of good karma and
bad karma and then we got into all the karmic results, and we had all these
different kinds of karmic results that come from one deed. Mainly 3 different
results that Jetsun Kampa pointed out. I don't think the course would be
complete....all right, this is very important...one thing that always bothered me
about karma is that I studied Abidharma for 16 years and didn't see anything to
explain how karma gets carried, how the karma stays in my mind. Where does
it stay? What kind of proof can you give me that I can accept that Karma really
operates like that? It was years later, maybe 15 years later, and in this book... say
{uma} [repeat] {gombarabso} [repeat], {uma} [repeat] {kombarabsa} [repeat].
{uma} is what Jetsun Kampa named his daughter. [laughter]. No joke, because
it means Madhyamika, Middle Way, and that's exactly why he named her that.
He's in love with that subject. So {uma} means Middle Way. {gomba} means the
real intent of somebody. What did he really have in mind? There's not really one
good word in English for that, for the real thought behind something, the real
reason why he said something, what he really had in mind. And an {abso}
means “total clarification”. So this is the name of a book by Jetsun Kampa, can't
call him Tsongkhapa, it's impolite, like saying “hey, you!” When was he born?

[student: [unclear]]

[student: This book is about what?]

This book is about the Middle Way from the point of view of the highest school
of Buddhism. What's that?

[student: Madhyamika]

It's called Madhyamika. This is the highest of the four schools. Madhyamika has
two parts and this is the higher part, called Prasangika.

[silence]

First thing I want to say is that we're out of the Abidharma School tonight.
Forget Abidharma, all right?      I'm speaking tonight from the Mahayana
viewpoint, from the Madhyamika Prasangika viewpoint, the highest school. All
of the highest teachings are based on Madhyamika Prasangika.            The
Madhyamika Prasangikas' had a fight with Jetsun Kampa.

[silence]

{sem} means “mind”. {tsam}? {tsampa} is that stuff they eat, no not really.
[laughs] [laughter] {tsam} means “only”, “just”. {Sempa}, just mind, Mind-Only
School. So that's the Tibetan name for the Mind-Only School and it's on the
subject of where karma stays that you really find out why the Mind-Only School
is called the Mind-Only School, very important, very sexy. People like the Mind-
Only School and talk a lot about it, but a lot of people have no idea what it
means. So you're going to get a dose of Mind-Only School. Some day we'll do
real Mind-Only School. In their discussion of how karma stays in your mind and
how it works in your mind that you really see why they're called Mind-Only.
What I want to say from the beginning, and I want everyone to hear it, is that
their presentation of how karma works is basically accepted by everybody, by
the higher schools, by Madhyamika Prasangika. Some details are not accepted,
but most of what I'm going to say tonight—and I'll tell you what the details are
that aren't accepted—is the way it is, it's the way karma really works according
to even the highest schools. Very very important. And when I got to this
subject, and when my teacher went through this subject, this was that famous
occasion, the only occasion when I interrupted him blatantly, when I broke into
the class and said: “This sounds great to me. I don't see anything wrong with it.
Is it correct or not?” And he said “It is correct. We can accept this. The highest
schools accept it.” Then I could accept karma, then I believed karma, because it
sounded so rational to me. So here we go, this is a very important class.

[student: So Michael, what you're saying is that this is a Prasangika commentary
on the Mind-Only explanation?]

It's where Prasangika takes on the Mind-Only School on some points and then
states the truth, purifies their viewpoint. {Gombarabso} is this huge word, very
difficult, and you'll see from the reading [laughter]. I mean, the guy must have
had a huge headache when he went home.                 [laughter] It's very deep.
Tsongkhapa is a genius, a total genius. According to us, he was taking dictation
from a Buddha. You'll see if you read it. If you sit with a few sentences for a few
days, you'll figure it out. That's the way he is.

[student: What did you say was the name of his book?]

The name of his work translated is [bk: Illumination of the True Thought of the
Middle-Way]. Total illumination of the real intent of who? Ah, could be
Chandrakirti, probably Chandrakirti. Don't mix him up with Dharmakirti.
Dharmakirti is the magician, Chandrakirti is the Middle-Way philosopher. Okay,
what happened? You did a karma, let's say you did a bad karma, you killed
somebody. No, let's say you yelled at somebody, like I just did before class. I
apologized. When the result comes back to you, what supposedly happens to
you?

[student: You get yelled at.]

You get yelled at, not once but many times. Okay? Basically, if someone is
yelling at you, what is going on at the moment that someone is yelling at you?
It's very important to understand how karma ripens. There are three elements
going on.

[silence]

The first element is the mind, his consciousness. We don't say it's the mind...
does that look like a
brain? That's called {namche} {miki}, not {mikey}, {miki namche}. {Miki namche}
means “consciousness of the eye”. You're having consciousness of the eye right
now as you look at me. You're aware of your eye. You're aware of the colors,
you're aware of the shape. That's consciousness of the eye. While the person's
yelling at them...let's say the person's got a red face, concentrating on the visual
aspects. He's {miki namba shepa} is talking. He's having a...you know, you're
at work, you're at the office, the guy comes up to your desk and asks: “Why
aren't those daisy pinning pieces here yet?” Which is what they said to me
yesterday [laughter] at 12:30 at night. And he's looking at you and his face is red.
When I'm aware of his red face, my consciousness, my awareness of his red face
is {miki namche}. What's the faculty that allowed me to see his red face?
[student: The eye?]
Remember the eye faculty? The eye power? Where is that?

[student: [unclear]]

Yeah, according to Buddhism and also according to Western medicine it's a patch
of cells at the back of the eyeball that sense the colors and shape and transmit it
to the mind. There's a thing called.... [silence] I'm not a very good artist....there's
all these spots, receptors at the back of the eye. Here's the eyes, right? And
there's the {miki wambo}.

[student: Pretty bad drawing.] [laughter]

[laughs] {miki wambo}, that's right there.

[student: That's eye consciousness?]

No, this is the eye faculty, the eye power, what you call the eye... what do you
call it? Physical matter, receptors, the nerve, the end of the nerve, you have
them all over your skin for touch. You have them in the middle of your ear or
somewhere for hearing. And then what's it looking at? This guy's red face,
right? This is the boss and he's yelling. That's what we call the {unclear}.

[student: Those are the three things?]

Yeah, well, now we've got three. You're looking at the red face. That's color and
shape. They are sensed by your eye faculty. Based on that, a consciousness
grows.

[student: When you say consciousness grows, you mean the mind apprehends
it?]

You're aware of his red face, awareness of his red face. This is like the physical
sense of it, the physical sensation of redness and shape. Then the mind is doing
all this stuff, like he doesn't like me. But don't forget that this is not really
interpretation at this point, this is just eye consciousness, awareness of a red face.

[student: So it's not interpretation yet?]

No.   Particularly if your brain was not functioning. Your eye could be
transmitting, your eye power could be working but your brain may not be
doing anything. It's actually true of the first instant of the instant of the
perception. The eyeball has already sensed that color, but there's a time lag for it
to create eye contact. And theoretically, the last moment of looking at his ugly
face, this is still operating but is finished—you're still aware of red, but this has
already finished. The last moment of his red face has already passed down the
pipeline. So that's what's going on, there's three things going on. Now what
does the Mind-Only School think? How does this event take place? They say
something very interesting. They say there's a thing down here...first time I'm
drawing this...this is your bad luck [unclear}. [laughter] This is called {kunshi},
the [unclear], in Sanskrit very famous. You'll hear people throwing it around so
you may as well know it. People love this word. Say {alaya} [repeat] {vignana},
{alaya} [repeat] {vignana}. You have people in universities who love this word.
{alaya} or {kunshi} means “basis consciousness”. I translate it as “foundation
consciousness”. You might hear it translated as “storehouse consciousness.” It
means foundation consciousness. And they say that all those karmic seeds are
sitting in this consciousness, they're resting in this consciousness, and when the
time comes, they produce a mental seed... it's a cute word, like “pierogi”,
American people always remember it....

[student: {bakchak}]

Right, {bakchak}. This little seed here, this little guy here, this karmic seed, the
seed of your karma, {bakchak}, is sitting in where? Sitting in the foundation
consciousness, and then it starts to grow, it starts to give a result. What
happens? It creates a bigger {namen}, it creates that awareness of the red color
of my face, that grows out of that face consciousness, my personal consciousness
pool. It suddenly produces the awareness of a red face.

[student: Can you explain that? Is that a separate and distinct raw awareness?
Sight awareness? Or does it go on top of it?]

No, it is the raw awareness. It is creating... oh yeah, this is a totally different
consciousness, it's like a big pool of all your karmic seeds, it's in you, it's not
connected to any of the other consciousnesses, it's not connected to your eye,
ear, nose, it's totally separate, totally different consciousness that you have. It's
sitting in your mind and it's the storehouse, it's the pool where all your karmic
seeds are sitting. And when the time comes, they produce an eye consciousness.
When you say eye consciousness, it's not like you're thinking: “Oh I like this
color, I don't like this color.” It's just the awareness of the color.
[student: I have two questions. First of all, is {bakchak} a seed?]

Mental seed. I'm using the translation “mental seed” for {bakchak}. People call it
propensity, a karmic energy, whatever you want. {Bakchak} means this, I'll give
you an example, a very famous example in my mind. I remember when I first
met Rinpoche he didn't have a green card. Someone had messed up his papers.
It took like 5 years to get his green card straight. We used to go out everyday
and watch for the yellow station wagon, out of the temple window, looking for
the postman, and when he came we used to run outside and he'd say “Not yet.”
Then one day it came and we were jumping up and down thinking that now he
could stay in the United States. Next morning we're out at the window again,
waiting for this yellow car. [laughter] We have a {bakchak} for a yellow car.
That's a karmic {bakchak}. That means a mental habit, a mental seed. Synonyms
are given in your reading.

[student: It's not further along in the ripening process that the actual seed is
stored in the reservoir?]

We're going to talk about when the seed gets planted, how it stays and how it
grows. I'm not there yet. It's a mental seed. Not a word for a physical seed.
Physical seeds are not called {bakchak}.

[student: The other question I had was—if this {bakchak} ripens and becomes the
eye consciousness of the red face [unclear]]

Well, you can say it's an awareness of the redness of the face.

[student: Does that same seed, that same {bakchak}, does it produce the auditory
awareness? Is it producing more than one consciousness?]

It could, that's a long story, yeah, it could. That's a long story. Yeah, it could.

[student: Is consciousness part of the [unclear]]

We'll get into it. According to all Buddhist schools, there are 6 consciousnesses.
Which are what?

[students: Eye, ear, nose, tongue, body and mind.]

Yes, and mind, consciousness of your thought, that's where you hear yourself
thinking. Those are accepted by everybody. The Mind-Only School says there
are two more. Only the Mind-Only School says there are two more. The big one
is {kunshi}. Does the Madhyamika Prasangika accept this {kunshi}? No. Why do
you think they have to have a thing called {kunshi}? Why do you think they
think they need a thing like {kunshi}? Why did the Mind-Only School come up
with this thing called {kunshi}? Because you've got to have a place for the seeds
to stay. And the Madhyamika Prasangikas’ say, look, your theory about having
a place for the seeds to stay is fine except that you don't have to have a separate
consciousness called {kunshi} for it to stay in. I'll get to that later.

[student: I'm not sure I was following your jargon or your terminology of
where the seed comes from. You know, you've talked about eye consciousness.
When you say eye consciousness, are you referring to {miki wango} or to
something different?

I refer to it as the faculty or the power of the eye. The physical matter which
senses the red. This is what I call eye consciousness, the brain part, the eye part,
the consciousness of what you see. I've seen something. It's even more basic
than that, it's even more raw than that, just the awareness of the color. Even
prior to the interpretation. Mental, it's a mental awareness of the color.

[student: So if you didn't have it, you wouldn't see it at all? I mean, you wouldn't
see your boss yelling at you?]

We're getting there. We'll get there.

[student: So when you say that {bakchak}, the seed arises, you say it only arises
in the eye consciousness.]

[unclear] No. A good lesson is supposed to flow like that. He’s asking whether
the {bakchak} is creating everything else.

[student: Yes.]

It's creating...

[student: {miki wango}]

We'll get there... [laughs] [laughter] I'm cranky tonight, okay? I warned you.
Okay. The {bakchak}, {kunshi}, produces a mental event and it looks like your
eye. It looks like the faculty of your eye. It looks like you interpreted it to be the
physical faculty of your eye. It's an emanation of {kunshi}. {Kunshi} is producing
this vector, this image which you think is your eye, but it's not, it's all coming
from {kunshi}. {Kunshi} looking like a what?

[student: [unclear] Are you still talking about the guy yelling at you?]

Yeah.

[student: So this guy yelling at you is making your eye?]

No, karma is. The karmic seed is producing consciousness which looks like a
eye.

[student: A physical eyeball?]

Yeah, like the cells back of the eye. But you take it to be your eye, the faculty of
your eye. That's the thing that if I poke it out, you can't see any more. And you
are aware of your eye. You're aware that you're seeing, right?

[student: So they say there's no such thing as an eye?]

We're getting there. [laughs] [laughter]

[student: So you're saying that the karmic seed produces the consciousness that
looks like the eye?]

Yeah. The karmic seed causes an influence of {kunshi} which looks to you like
your eye power, which is actually just a part of consciousness.

[student: Is {kunshi} the collection of {bakchak} or now you're saying the
{bakchak} produces the {kunshi}?

It's both. The place where the {bakchak} could stay and it's what starts to look to
you like your eye.

[student: So it's the place where the {bakchaks} stay, and then when they become
activated, it's the place where they perform, where they mimic what would
otherwise be an uninterfered-with eye sensation?]
Yeah.

[student: Are you saying it all comes from the same {bakchak}?]

Right.

[student: And that it's all consciousness?]

So they have to say there's no...

[student: Eye consciousness?]

No, worse than that.

[student: [unclear]]

They say there are no outer objects at all. So they're not mental.

[student: So what about the.... are we alternating then? Between unobstructed
{wong pos} and {wong pos} that are being... that look like {bakchaks}, or we're
always having {bakchaks} and we never get to the...]

Any {wong po} you ever have is the result is the result of a {bakchak}. Any time
you think you see something outside, it's just you seeing your own mind looking
like that.

[student: So our retina's really just sitting here doing nothing all the time?]

There is no physical retina.

[student: You just do it on the [unclear]?]

No, this is {kunshi} looking like a retina.

[student: No, no, no, no, I'm not talking about the would-be retinas, I'm talking
about the actual retinas.]

There is no such thing. There is no such thing. All cases of retina are {kunshi}
looking to you like a retina because of your karma.
[student: So we might not even exist as physical bodies then?]

You don't exist at outside physical points, no. They would say that. That's why
they're called {sempa}.

[student: So {miki wampo} is the display of {bakchaks}, got nothing to do with
[unclear], according to this school?]

There's something there.. it's mind, and it looks to you like John Kiley, who's
sitting there talking to you.

[student: So when you say it's mind...]

My own consciousness in the form of something not out there, it's right here and
I'm just all the time seeing this thing, right, it's stuck.... it's not even there, it's just
in my mind.

[student: It's not an eye, we think it's an eye.]

[student:    But Michael, when you say “mind” you mean eye consciousness,
right?]

Yeah, but it's the same for all the other consciousnesses.

[student: Right. But we're not going any deeper than eye consciousness?]

Well, we're trying to pick an example which is concrete. [laughs] [laughter]

[student: Great for Halloween...]

No, I told you... this is very, very profound, this is very close to what's actually
happening. Doesn't it make sense? That if bad karma creates some kind of
suffering, that it’s actually creating all these {nen pa [unclear]}. It’s creating the
object that you see, it’s creating your eye that sees it, and it's creating your
consciousness of it. And didn't we just get through a whole course saying that
mind has to produce mind?

[student: So what's the basis in this picture?]

What do you mean? The basis of consciousness?
[student: No, the empty basis upon which the attributes are.... like...]

We'll get to that. That's {unclear}. Right now for the first confusing 45 minutes,
we're going to be in the Mind Only School. Then I'll confuse you more.

[student: So what you're really talking about is how [unclear]]

Well, is there something about [unclear] that if I put this pen and stuck it in that
the world would blank out for you? It's what you call your eye. It's the
doorway to all these colors and shapes. You close your eyes, it doesn't work and
all you see is darkness. And, by extension, the very thing that you are seeing,
me, for you, is just another part of your brain, you're just seeing another part of
your brain looking like Michael Roach. That explains why everybody has a
different perception of me, that's why some people come to class bored to death
and that's why some people like it, I mean, that explains everything very well.
That's Mind Only School. That's how karma works. There is no outer thing.

[student: That doesn't explain your own self-perception, of yourself, as opposed
to me perceiving you.]

Oh, absolutely.

[student: Because if it's Mind Only School, then I can say you don't even exist.]

Yeah, I love to hear that, it's very interesting to me, yeah, sure, that explains
everything.

[student: No, but I'm saying then you don't even exist, except in my mind, but
you feel like you exist, but you think you exist....]

That's true, I think I exist outside my mind, but they say that's a mistake, that
you don't. You don't exist outside your mind.

[student: So there's no proving that you exist, or I exist, right?]

There's no proving that I exist for you. I don't know if I exist for you.

[student: No, there's no proving that you exist. I know you exist for me.]
{unclear} You see me, so I exist.

[student: I don't understand. [laughs]]

You perceive me. And you're not crazy, you're not drunk, you're not insane.
I'm just explaining how things exist. Well, we'll get there. Oh, so what is
emptiness to the Mind Only School? I don't want you to write it down, but just
for now, because your mind's on the point right now. Emptiness in this school is
the lack of any separate seed for the object in the mind itself.

[student: Say that again.]

The perceiver and the perceived thing are empty of being caused by any
separate seed. And that's emptiness in one school. What they're trying to say is
look, the mind that sees the angry boss and the angry boss itself come from the
same mental seed.

[student: In the Mind Only School?]

Yes, in the Mind Only School. The same karmic seed in your mind is producing
that boss's red face, producing the eye that sees that boss's red face and
producing your awareness of the boss. Everything's your fault. [laughs] That's
karma ripening in your foundation consciousness. It's great. What do you exist
of but just your mind?

[student: But if four people [unclear]...]

They all have the same...that's where we get into collective karma. Collective
karma means because we're all having this class together we're all going to enjoy
some results in the future, if we have the right attitude.

[student: [unclear]]

Sure, if people get together and do something together, then as a karmic result
they all experience the same thing together. Everybody in New York has the
same karma to enjoy the same result. Someone who died last night, [unclear]’s
father, he lost his ability to enjoy that result. So that explains everything. It’s
quite nice. Yeah?

[student: So another way to say this would be that the functioning of our mind
imputes a label on to everything that exists and nothing exists outside of the
imputation of the mind?]

We're getting there. That really is going a step higher. We didn't get to that yet.
You could say impute in the sense that you think that it's an outer object. John
Stillwell, I swear to God he looks like he's out there! But it's really just my own
mind, seeing my own mind looking like John Stillwell. If he's pleasant to me,
that's the result of my virtuous mind.

[student: So in this school, then, what is the raw material that the mind is seeing?
It's seeing itself, but what is the mind seeing?]

Consciousness. Consciousness.

[student: Consciousness perceives consciousness?]

You're seeing some kind of an emanation of {kunshi}.

[student: So there is no body [unclear]] [laughs] [laughter]

[student: Then how can there be other beings? There can't be other beings.]

Why not?

[student: Because it only appears that there are other beings. What appears to
me to be an eye, and what appears to me to be my brain.]

Well, you can say that they are long spaghetti noodles that never touch each
other.

[student: Pardon?]

Yeah, the Tom Kiley I see is not the... maybe there is a Tom Kiley experiencing
himself and a Michael Roach...]

[student: So would you say then that the mind is everything ... see, this is what's
mixing me up...inner-outer is what's mixing me up, because the mind for me is in
here, you know.]

They say no outer objects. Outer objects don't exist.
[student: So there's nothing outside, no globe over our shoulders?] [laughter]

It’s just the flowering of a karmic seed.

[student: A projection.]

Not a projection, we didn't get there yet. That's Madhyamika.

[student: No, but you're saying there's nothing, there's nothing there.]

[student: Why do you think there's karma with your body, and speech?]

An apparently outer object does a thing to another apparent object. It's all in the
mind.

[student: So you're saying... none of you exist!] [laughs] [laughter]

[student: You're saying that if there are outer objects, how do you know if
there's ....] [laughter]

Wait, wait, wait... [unclear] go ahead.

[student: Two things. One, I've asked two, what I consider to be high Buddhists,
one was a [unclear} and the other was a Chan master.... what influence do
mindstreams have, what connection do mindstreams have on each other? And
both of them said that they thought they could influence each other. And the
other thing is that you said the perceiver and the perceived object are both
produced from the same seed. How would you dramatically demonstrate that...
I lost that...]

{jai shingi {unclear}} The perceiver and the perceived thing are empty of having
any separate substance. That's why there's a lot of emptiness and you’ve got to
get it straight. By the way, it's not a crazy thing at all. It's very logical.

[student: They're empty of what? The perceiver and the perceived...]

Empty of any separate substance. They are the same stuff.

[student: Empty of anything separate.]
They're empty of any separate substance. You don't have to know that, it's not
on your homework. Somebody asked me was it going to be included in the
homework...

[student: So {shin mai} is the scope of existence. If my mind occupies this finite
amount of space, does that mean that nothing exists outside of this finite amount
of space?]

Right.

[student: Then why practice dharma?] [laughter]

I did not say that beings did not exist.

[student: You said it was a result of the {bakchaks}.]

I said it was {kunshi} because of {bakchaks} influence, appearing as a “you”. And
you want all those appearances to be happy. That's fine.

[student: So you practice dharma to fool yourself into thinking that you're
helping beings and everyone's happy.] [laughs] [laughter]

[student: But that's what you said!]

You're not fooling yourself.

[student: Yeah, yeah, but you can produce seeds that make you believe that
there are happy beings that are being transformed.] [laughter]

Yeah, that's exactly what you're going to be doing.

[student: According to this school.]

Because if you don't, and this is very close to Madhyamika Prasangika, what's the
alternative?

[student: So all references to helping beings is really an illusion?]

Only an illusion if you think that those beings are somehow separate.
[student: They do exist as separate...]

They have no existence outside of your mind. They absolutely exist. They're
absolutely valid, they absolutely suffer, they absolutely have a {bakchak}.

[student: Are you saying they're findable or unfindable?]

In this school they're findable. In this school.

[student: Outside there?]

Not outside.

[student: Okay, that's what I'm asking.            So they're out there, but they're
unfindable out there.]

Oh no, did you say “out there”?

[student: Yeah. But you said there might be... there are other beings out there.]

Out there, no. No. Outside of your consciousness, no physical outside points.

[student: I'm talking about beings.]

Beings are, you know, minds that are in bodies.

[student: So how do they distinguish this from when somebody's dreaming?]

That's an excellent question. Prasangika says that then dreams would have the
same reality as this. And they get into that. It's a big debate. It's a tremendous
question.

[student: So that's what happens to the dream.]

I even started to translate it and then it got to be like 3 o'clock and then I said no,
cut it out.... it’s a big question.

[student: [unclear].... what is a mindstream...]
We're going to talk about it, that very question. Tonight we're going to talk
about it. All right, so that's the basic process. Now, it's not crazy, when you
think about it, I mean, it's very attractive, you can never get to Madhyamika and
[unclear] effective. The other Mahayana schools say this, not some crazy dude.
This is what the other big Mahayana branches say goes on. The Prasangika
viewpoint is more radical. Reality is more radical than that. But in the
meantime, that explains events happening to you. It has to be that way. Where
did you think karma stays? What's the alternative? Karma stays on Mars and
comes back to Earth every five years or something? No, it stays in your
mindstream. And then it emanates to these things and you think you're
suffering.

[student: What kind of literal [unclear]]

What's that?

[student: What kind of literal mind... I assume it takes up space [unclear]]

[unclear]... space?

[student: No, but the {kunshis}, there's a place for it, right?]

Well, we'll talk about it. So basically...no, you can't digest and process everything
in one night. Tsongkhapa went into retreat for years. He was very confused
about all these things. [laughter] Okay. So if on your homework it says
[laughter] what are the things that the Mind Only School say are produced by a
karmic seed? First, it’s consciousness. Right here.

[student: [unclear]] [laughter]

What do you think is being produced by that karmic seed? First thing is your
awareness. John Stillwell's mind. What's the second thing being produced? John
Stillwell's eyes, and by extension, what he sees. So you can divide it into two
things—John Stillwell as the perceiver, as the mind that perceives, is being
created by a karmic seed. And then Michael Roach and his vision of Michael
Roach are being produced by that same seed. So two things are being produced
by the same seed—the seer and the thing that he sees, which includes the ability
to see, are being produced by that one karmic seed.

[student: Why is [unclear] an extension of a third thing?]
Because that's the way they present it. And I'm not going to change it. [laughs]

[student: So your perception of yourself is also that?]

Oh, absolutely. That's why you get enlightened. You plant all the right
{bakchaks} in the {kunshi} and then you see {unclear}, an immortal deity in
paradise.

[student: Just by reprogramming your perception?]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. What's the only way to change things?

[student: Your reaction to your perception.]

Yeah. Put some new {bakchaks} in that. I repeat, and I will repeat this till I die,
so that you might not die. [laughs] [laughter]. You can't change... once the
{bakchak} is growing, forget it, it's too late. You know, think of all these great
masters who say: “Just have a good attitude while the guy's yelling at you.”
Forget it! It's unpleasant! You're having a good attitude about an unpleasant
object. What's the big deal? It's an unpleasant thing. No kind of attitude change
is going to make it pleasant. It's not pleasant to get yelled at, I swear to God,
doesn't matter who you are. [laughter] It's too late to change. You must... let
that {bakchak}... what happens to all seeds when they produce their result?

[student: They die.]

They die, they disappear. Acorns disappear when the trees come out. For god's
sake don't put in a new {bakchak} by getting mad!

[student: No, no, wait a minute, you have to put a new {bakchak} in there. One
has got to produce the other, right? Or else you go blank while you're looking at
your red boss, right?

There could be a neutral {bakchak}.

[student: I didn't say whether they were neutral or not, but...]

We're saying replace it with a good {bakchak}.
[student: Michael, is self-awareness part of mental awareness?]

Yeah, sure. Different schools have different...

[student: But it's coupled with...]

You know, the thing called {rang rig}.

[student: Yes, self-awareness.]

There's a word for it. Apperception. In the higher schools. The ability of the
mind to see itself as it sees is not acceptable in the higher schools. It is accepted in
the Mind Only School.

[student: In the Mind Only School...what is the scope of the mind? The space it
occupies? Like the mind is equivalent to a universe? I would say a take on what
the mind is...]

Yes, if you think of it that way, I mean you just, apparently you just visualize it
correctly. When you look up and see the stars in the sky, you're looking at your
own mind. You're looking at {kunshi} emanating as stars.

[student: Your mind has been formed....]

That's the way it is now. I mean, it's very close to that now. You just don't know
about it. Why did we get into all this? I'm trying to explain how bad things
happen to you, because you did good karma or bad karma. Where did you
think the bad thoughts came from? Did karma go to Jupiter and create your
mom, and then you were born? What did you think when we used to talk about
it all these months? About collecting bad karma, and that creating a bad feeling,
and a bad sensation? Where did you think it came from?

[student: Because you interpret the way you behave as being bad...]

[student: There's a difference between how you perceive the boss and that you
perceive the boss, I mean, in a sense...]

They're talking more radical. Both are tied together.

[student: No, they're saying the boss... that you perceive a boss of any kind is
produced by the {bakchak} rather than that there is a being, an empty being out
there, which forms the basis upon which your {bakchaks}...]

But I'll tell you something. Even in the highest school, those parts which you
interpret as being the boss, are also the results of these {bakchaks}. That part
[unclear]. That's very very profound, that's very important. Otherwise how
could karma work? That's the name of the course, right? Now you know how
karma works. That's how karma works.

[student: I always thought that there was perception, you know, our inner
process of interpretation of our minds, as well as the arising of events upon
which we....]

I understand. You thought that there was some kind of self-existing...]

[student: No, I didn't say self-existing.]

I know, I know you didn't. But you've got to be very careful about fooling
yourself in this. In the back of your mind you're fooling yourself.

[student: It's the idea that there are components floating around...]

Right, there are atoms. They are out there, and I'm here, and because of my
karmas I'm interpreting them in certain formation.

[student: Yeah, I can accept that for now.]

We'll talk about it. It's coming. So that's what's happening according to the Mind
Only School. Now, I want to go on to one more thing. So if on the homework
they ask... [laughter] what are you really looking at when you look at the book?
And what is it that you are really aware of when you're aware of your eye
feelings? What are you looking at? Mind Only School. What are you really
looking at?

[student: There is no book. There is no eye. There's a [bakchak} functioning in
the {kunshi}.]

You are looking at {kunshi} itself. {Kunshi} is emanating as... because of the
{bakchak} influence, {kunshi} is emanating as your boss, it's emanating as your
own eye. It's also producing your consciousness of it.
[student: Seems the whole idea of emanating is [unclear] outside.]

Well, emanating means that that clear stuff called mind is taking on that form for
you because of a previous {bakchak}.

[student: In your mind.]

In your mind.

[student: Why did you say not projecting?]

Well, he likes... he wants it to be projected on to something. Anything. I don't
know.... you could think of it like a horseshoe, right? And it's all that {kunshi}
stuff. And here’s your eye and your mind and you're just looking over there at
your boss, but it's all your mind that you're looking at. It's all your own mind
that's emanating as your boss, and your own mind that's emanating as your own
mind. And that's how karma produces its results.

[student: When you say that it’s going to take another form, you don’t mean...
there’s no separate...]

No, they don’t accept outside physical forms.

[student: And how does the deed become the seed?]

Oh. [unclear]

[student: Wait, wait, wait, Michael, one second. You just said that the {kunshi}
emanates. Before that you said the {bakchak} is the one that...]

Well, the {bakchak} triggers the {kunshi} to emanate in a certain way.

[student: And the {bakchak} lives in the {kunshi} and it’s also a....]

[student: So the whole reservoir starts.... I don’t understand.]

Yeah, yeah. The reservoir starts taking on different appearances.

[student: So it’s like a mirror?]
Yeah, yeah, you could say that.

[student: Little {bakchaks} explode and one of them turns into a little boss’s face
and one of them turns into Michael Roach’s eye and one of them turns into
Michael Roach’s mind seeing the boss. Now how does that happen? Let me
make sure I cover it. [laughter]. So what are you really looking at when you
look at your eye or the outside forms?

[student: {kunshi}]

You’re looking at that foundation consciousness. You’re looking at that big
horseshoe of silly putty that’s clear and takes on whatever form it wants to
according to your {bakchaks}.

[silence]

How is the karma planted? How are the mental seeds planted? Where do they
stay and how do they go on? That’s our next subject. I think somebody asked
that. [silence] Let’s put back the {kunshi} here. The way a karmic seed is planted,
forget that aura, okay? That’s lower school stuff. You do a deed. Let’s say that
you start yelling at someone. And as that deed comes to its conclusion, as that
deed comes to its end, the energy of that deed.... you can think of the deed as
this, okay? You’re yelling, yelling, yelling, you get tired of yelling and it starts to
fade out, your bad deed starts to come to a conclusion. At the very next instant,
it transfers its energy to the {kunshi} in the form of a {bakchak}.

[student: We talk about energy. Whose is this energy?]

It doesn’t make sense in science, right? What it means is that the awareness of
yelling, your awareness of you yelling, which is a kind of consciousness, you
know, you see yourself yell, yell, yell, yell. As that awareness starts to conclude,
and as you start to close your mouth, that stains the {kunshi} with a {bakchak}. It
plants a mental seed in your storehouse consciousness, in your foundation
consciousness. As you finish your deed, when the last energy is concluded, then
that energy is transferred as a {bakchak} into the {kunshi}, starts in the {kunshi}.

[student: So it’s like an energy that stains the {kunshi}?]

Yeah, yeah, a {bakchak} is a very difficult idea, it’s true.      The highest school
believes it also. {Bakchak} is not mental and it’s not physical. It’s a kind of energy
that stays in your mind.

[student: As we think of energy, like an energetic particle?]

Yeah, it’s a mental seed. It’s some kind of existing thing which is changing, and
it’s like a potential that remains in the mind.

[student: You’re talking about a self-existent thing?]

No, and we’ll talk about that. We’ll talk about why it’s not.

[student: Michael, with your example about yelling, let’s say that in the middle
of yelling you realize what you’re doing and you regret it and apologize to the
person. Is it stored differently than if you’d just scream your head of....]

Yeah, yeah. Because your awareness of the event is different by the time it’s
over.

[student: So what’s the arbitrary factor that chops it off at this point? I mean,
why couldn’t it be bad karma from yelling, and right after that good karma from
being sad about it? Why does it have to... where’s the [unclear]....]

I’ll tell you. At the point at which that deed would no longer cause you suffering
in the future, it’s no longer a bad deed. Nice answer?

[student: So what you’re saying is that...]

At the point where it changes its nature, and is no longer going to cause you
suffering in the future, it’s no longer a bad deed.

[student: That’s the same thing... that’s a circle.]

It is a circle and I want it to be that. That’s what I want bad deeds to be for you.
It’s not guilt, it’s not what anybody says, it’s not anything else. It’s whatever will
cause you suffering in the future.

[student: This is true for good deeds too, right?]

Absolutely.
[student: So the {bakchaks} are created by the three types of deeds, neutral, bad
or good, and as long as there’s a steady contiguous block of bad, it’s building a
{bakchak}, and the moment it switches from being bad to a neutral, the chop-off
goes and then that becomes.. and then the next input is going to be neutral until
it changes to being good or bad, then it chops off like that. And it’s constantly....]

We’re going to get to that in this course. It’s called black and white karma and
mixed black and white karma. Okay?

[silence]

Where does this karma stay? How does it stay? The Mind-Only School says
right after the deed reaches its conclusion, that energy is planted where?

[student: In the {kunshi}.]

So if anybody ever asks you, where does the Mind-Only School say a mental
seed stays until they start to produce the result, until they start to look like the
results? And that’s in the {kunshi}. That’s why they say {kunshi} has to exist.

[student: When they start to look like the results?             Do they undergo a
transformation that takes place before...]

No, they don’t say anything like that. Some very important... the last question,
and then we’ll take a break. Yeah. There’s a big question as to what you just
said. How does this little circle, how does this little {bakchak}, how does this little
mental seed stay around so long? Is it permanent? No. It continues by... it also
goes on moment by moment, right? Like all impermanent things, like all
changing things according to Buddhism, it’s a stream, it’s actually a stream of
little replication by itself.    So somebody says to you, oh, are {bakchaks}
permanent? Because, my God, they stay a million years before they give their
result? Say no, they’re not permanent. Well, do they change by the instant, like
all other changing things? Yes, they go through constant fluctuations. Like they
are a chain of similar forms. So it’s just replicating, replicating, replicating,
replicating... that’s, by the way, what John Stillwell is throughout his life. I mean,
he is being destroyed by the instant, he is just this series of ... you know, when
the film goes fast enough all those separate pictures start to look like a flow and
it’s the same thing.
[student: Michael, what determines the nature of the changes?]

We already talked about that. How powerful your motivation was, what was
the kind of object you did the deed towards, things like that.

[student: But that particular {bakchak} can only be affected by the original deed
that...]

Except that in Mahayana a good confession can affect it.

[student: Does this have anything to do with... when you say if you killed
[unclear], then your ribs will be crushed at some point. Does this have to do
with....]

Well, the time lag is from here to... by the way, if you yelled at somebody else,
right, and then it stayed there and produces its result as somebody...what?

[student: Somebody yelling at you.]

Somebody yelling at you, okay. Is it a person yelling at you? No. How could
mind create a person? Mind creates a mind. The awareness of yourself yelling
creates an awareness of yourself being yelled at. I love it. It makes a lot of sense
to me. Therefore the content is similar. Nasty content going in, nasty content
coming out.

[student: Not only that, it grows, though. It’s not something...]

Yeah, it’s a lot of little guys yelling at you.

[student: If {bakchaks} exist as a stream of individual discrete elements.....]

No, it’s a little {bakchak} getting ripe, then another {bakchak} getting ripe, then
another... this is an explanation of why a {bakchak} is not a permanent,
unchanging thing which we all know cannot create anything.

[student: Is it an absolute continuum, or is it one 64th of the second frame?]

It’s being destroyed {kenchipa [unclear] chu daki chimi}. The definition of
impermanence is that object which is growing and being destroyed by the
[unclear].
[student: Is it touching? For example, is a Buddha...]

Well, you’re getting... if you follow this reasoning, you’ll reach emptiness. You
can’t put your mind on it. Are they touching? I don’t know. Are they not
touching? No.

[student: Is a Buddha continuous or is a Buddha a sage who just reached a stage
of ...]

Think of it as a film. Think of it as the frames in a film. And to you they’re
happening so fast that to you it looks like it’s one film.

[student: But the [unclear] is the same?]

Absolutely, yeah. It’s called the {santani} in the....

[student: So the entire empty universe is a series of discrete events?]

All impermanent events.

[student: So the Buddha is....]

The Buddha is impermanent. Actually, long story. [laughs]

[student: Michael....]

By the way, I don't like the word, you know I don't like the word permanent and
impermanent. Changing and unchanging. His visible form is changing. His
emptiness is unchanging. His Dharmakaya is unchanging.

[student: How does it replicate itself?]

By the force by which this energy was transferred at this point.

[student: That seems to imply that the energy itself has some kind of....]

Some kind of innate identity?

[student: No, but some sort of quality, I don’t know.]
Yes, all objects have the ability to... there’s a whole school of thought about
second chapter Abidharmakosha. There’s something about you which keeps
you Robin until you die. There’s a similarity between you now and you five
minutes ago that we call a stream. Now what causes that is the power of a
{bakchak}. And one day it will wear out and you'll stop looking like Robin and
we’ll say Robin died and Robin’s not here any more.

[student: But... power, energy, sounds to me like it’s without qualities, but a
{bakchak} has some qualities.]

Oh absolutely, oh yeah. Because it’s going to create a yelling guy.

[student: So those qualities are....]

Yeah, more qualities, the quality of being non-virtuous.

[student: And they’re part of what caused this replication, they’re part of the
mechanism that caused the....]

They triggered the... when they flower, you think you see a guy yelling. You
think you see an outside guy yelling. You see your own mind looking like an
outside guy yelling. Now does it matter? No, it's still unpleasant, it's still stinks!
But the point is if you understand how it works, you can stop it. Is it invalid? Is
it less than what you thought it was? Does it not hurt any more just because you
know it's your own mind playing tricks on you? It still hurts! It’s still bad. It
might as well be real. It looks real, it acts real, it does everything else it's
supposed to do, it's unpleasant, it still hurts you, it still kills you, still can shoot a
gun at you [unclear]. It doesn't make it all invalid. It makes it more valid,
because it explains why it’s happening. And how you can change it. That's
great. It doesn't mean it's not valid. You know, as I often say, go to the dentist,
have him drill your teeth. Meditate on how it’s your {kunshi} just showing you
there’s a cavity being drilled. It doesn't help, it still hurts. It's real.

[student: Two questions: if you yell at someone, and then you have this energy
that puts the {bakchak} in the {kunshi} and it continues as a series of discrete
events up until the time it ripens, why don’t you perceive it when it ripens as
yourself yelling at someone again? Why is it turned around at you?]

This I haven't quite clarified in my own mind yet. I don’t know.
[student: Well, it seems to me if you...]

I know what you mean. If a totally incompatible result is caused, then it should
be just yourself yelling. There’s something about it... it’s the very nature of
karma. It creates an unpleasant result... the definition of non-virtue is that it
creates an unpleasant result. There’s something about it that reverses, I agree.

[student: The second question is that given that you have this energy that plants
this {bakchak} which continues until it ripens, it seems that the energy dissipates,
you know, it becomes less and less and less, and yet karma grows and expands.
Why does karma grow and expand if the {bakchak} is lessening or continuing
the same or whatever.

I don't know. We know it's a principle that it does grow, right? Why does a tree
need to grow?

[student: Why should it grow?]

Why does a tree get so much bigger than an acorn?            The acorn itself that
produces the tree doesn't get bigger, right?

[student: In the case of the acorn, yeah, the nutrients going in and the water, the
minerals, there are other factors coming into play.]

I think you're feeding it with ignorance actually. That's another story and maybe
that's the answer. I don't want to get into it because we're going to run way over
the class schedule. They say there's another consciousness called messed-up
consciousness, okay? It’s called {nin-yi}, {klesha} consciousness. It looks at its
ignorance, and it looks at {kunshi} and misinterprets everything about {kunshi}
and that's probably what makes the karma grow bigger. It’s the ignorance
about it, and that attitude about it. I don't even want to go into it. There's
another consciousness, it’s called {klesha} consciousness, bad-thought
consciousness, that looks at {kunshi}, misinterprets it and probably makes the
karma worse. Okay, one more thing. What does the Madhyamika Prasangika....
the {sem sampas}, the Mind Only School.              Chandrakirti criticizes them,
Tsongkhapa criticizes them, Nagarjuna criticizes them. And they say: What do
you want? Where do you think the karma stays? If there's no big pool in my
mind for it to stay in, well, Mr. Chandrakirti, where does it stay?            And
Chandrakirti says: in the stream of your mind. The stream of your regular
consciousness, the same old consciousness, your basic consciousness stream.
Wait, now we need to do a little more. This is going to be confusing. And
Tsongkhapa says, and the great scholar of the time says, what he means by
stream of mind here is John Stillwell. He doesn’t refer to stream of mind per se.
He refers to John Stillwell. The flow of John Stillwell. The flow of Robin
Brentano. That's where the karma stays. Not even in their mind.

[student: You mean in the flow of you experiencing yourself at the moment as
John Stillwell.]

Madhyamika Prasangika. The simple unexamined me. They call it “the simple
me”. Tsongkhapa says, don't worry about... don't get into his emptiness, don't
get into blah blah blah... don't look too deep... you know, the John Stillwell—
remember we said simple self awareness in the last class? Buddhas have it. You
know, Buddha says I'm Buddha. I'm Shakyamuni. He took seven steps and then
on the eighth step he said: “I'm the greatest being in the world”. Cassius Clay
or whatever. He said that when he was born, okay? He came out of his mother's
womb and said “I'm the greatest...” you know. He has an awareness of himself.
That simple awareness of me, I, Michael, that's where the karma stays.

[student: Well, then when you die, it would all go away.]

That simple “I”... no, Tom Kiley goes on! What are you talking about? Tom
Kiley goes on...

[student: No, no, no, no, Tom Kiley does not go on because in his next life I'm
going to be... Jane Kiley or something... [laughter] all right, so if what you say is
true, when Tom Kiley disappears, all that karma will disappear also.]

You're right. [unclear] the simple me. Me. Me won’t disappear.

[student: The “me” that I'm currently experiencing myself as John Kiley.]

Me, me, it’s planted in me, okay? Just me. And they say, “just me”, {nat sak}, if
you want to see the word, it’s {nat sak}. Where does the karma stay? You
Madhyamikas, you big Buddhist scholars, you don't accept our idea of this
{kunshi}. So where does the karma stay? Well, just in you. In you. And that
you, according to the highest school of Buddhism, is you looking at your mind
and your other parts saying “me”. Interpreting that as “me”. That's where the
karma stays.
[student: But you said it’s stream of mind, you didn’t say “me” before.]

 And then I said what stream of mind means here is you thinking “me” about
your stream of mind.

[student: So either way it’s fine.]

You can say either way. If you’re one of those people in the class, like Ariel who
wants to fly high, technically, its not your stream of mind. It’s you, a label put on
your stream of mind and your arms and your legs and everything else. If you
put “stream of mind” on the homework I don’t mind. If you put “simple me”,
I’d like it better. You won’t know what that means for a long time. [laughs]. But
think about it. Let it cook. Let it cook. That’s very deep. That’s where the
karma stays. It’s a lot more comfortable to think that it stays in some big pool
that you carry along with you and that’s why the Buddha taught {kunshi}, right?
It’s one of the four schools, Buddha taught it, it’s valid, it works, it has a use, it’s a
good way of thinking about it, it can help you.

[student: Are you saying then that the idea of the “me” is more accurate than
{kunshi}?]

It is more accurate.

[student: So the {bakchaks} that you’re carrying in your regular mindstream...?]

There is no mindstream.

[student: Would another way to say it be that all of the thoughts you have, all of
the actions that you’ve done, all of the deeds, you know, everything has led you
to who you are at this discrete moment in time, and therefore the results are the
sum of your karmic...]

We’re going to talk about that. I know that you are going to have trouble with
this idea. So I stuck in the reading that I’m going to go over. What does this big,
big, high, high, high school say is “just you”? What do they mean when they say
“just me?” I’m going to do that after the break. It’s going to be a rough class,
hang on to your seats, but it’s very important. I think that if you’re a thinking
person, you can’t accept karma unless you get some kind of discussion like this.
Where does it stay? How does it stick on...? You know, in the lower schools, the
Abidharma says “oh there’s this invisible saddle-cinch. They love these things,
right? They’ve got this {nambo riche my en mi su}, right? They’ve got this aura,
right? So they say, ah, well, there’s this big thing that looks like a saddle-cinch
and it’s called a {kopa} and all your karmas get stuck in there and they came
along with you. They don’t say there’s a physical belt-like thing, but they say
that there’s an energy called a belt that keeps those things on you. You know,
that’s how they explain it. Take a break and come back in ten minutes. There’s a
famous verse that’s in your reading. If you do the memorizations, you’re
supposed to memorize it. It’s from a sutra called [bk: The Sutra Requested by
Uppali] and it basically says that heaven is made by your mind. And then
Shantideva has a quotation that says “hell is made by your mind.” Now don’t
think that... Shantideva has a very famous quotation that says, in the [bk:
Boddhicheavatara] that says don’t think that hell was made by... what do you
think? Some ACME Construction Company went down under the ground and
made hell? [laughter] Who made hell? You make hell. You make it with your
own mind. Does that mean that if you’re in a bad mood this world looks like
hell? No. It means that there really is a place where beings are in millions of
years of torment and that’s the hell you created through your karma. When you
get there, it exists through your perceptions. And that’s very very famous. So
I’m going to tell you how the...I mean, in scripture those quotations are all over
the place. So the Mind Only School says... by the way, in those quotations the
Buddha often says “the world is only your mind.” You know the universe is
only your mind. The universe and all the beings in it are only mind. So the Mind
Only School says, “Come on! The Buddha said it! Buddha said it’s only mind!
We’re going to name our school after that! We’re the Mind Only School! And
we’re the only ones who follow what the Buddha said. The Buddha said it’s all
mind only. If you ever get to paradise, your tantric paradise, it’s mind only. If
you ever have to go to hell, it’s mind only. So the Mind Only School says we’re
the right school. Buddha said mind only. So what does “Mind Only” really
mean?

Say {sope thak sang}. [repeat]. {sope thak sang}. [repeat]. If you never learn
anything else, learn {sope thak sang}. I say that about everything, right? {sope}
means “by your own conceptions,” through your own conceptions.” {thak
sang} means “just labeled to your own conceptions.” There’s another spelling of
this verb and the Sanskrit root also means “just made up by your own
conceptions.”

[student: How do you say it?]
This is the highest school’s view point of reality, Madhyamika Prasangika. This is
Madhyamika Prasangika. This is what the Madhyamika Prasangika view is: the
world is just what you label it. Okay? The world is just what you label it. It
sounds close to what? It’s Mind Only, but it’s a little different, isn’t it? They don’t
say you’re looking at your mind acting like your boss. They say you label your
boss the angry boss. And I think it’s very healthy, very good for you to know
the difference between the two schools. People are always mixing them up. The
average American Buddhist idea of all this stuff is just a big jumble. Now you
know the difference. Mind Only School says what? Your eye consciousness
grows from a karmic seed and it’s looking at foundation consciousness looking
like an object, basically looking at itself. The highest school says “No!”. There are
indications of an angry boss out there, there are parts that look like an angry
boss, there’s a redness there, there’s the sweat glinting off there, there’s a decibel
level coming into the ear, and then you label it what?

[students: Angry boss.]

Angry boss. You label those parts “angry boss”. [laughs] I’m waiting for the
next question. When is this question going to come?

[student: What are those parts?]

What are those parts? Listen very carefully. When you go to the glistening
sweat on the brow, or the redness of the face, and you pick that, there’s also a
label put on to the redness on the left side, and the redness on the right side.
And you go to the redness on the left side....

[student: It’s like the pen.]

And it’s the left part of the left side and the right part of the right side. So where
is the red? This way you’ll find it’s emptiness. If you continue to look... where’s
the real parts that I’m labeling, you know, parts that are really there that I’m not
labeling? You’ll never find them. That’s a meditation on emptiness. That’s one
method to reach emptiness. You’ll never find them. What does Prasangika say?
Leave it alone. {unclear} Leave it alone. There’s a redness, there’s a glint off the
face, there’s a decibel level of the voice, don’t look deeper than that. That’s his
reality. He’s real. Okay? And I’m interpreting that as “angry boss,” it hurts me,
it functions, it fires me, it gives me bonuses, it’s there. You can’t deny it’s
existence. It’s operating. Leave it. Don’t go deeper. If you go deeper you won’t
find anything there. If you’re interested in doing an emptiness meditation at
work, which would probably get you fired, [laughs] [laughter]... if you do that, if
you keep looking for the boss, he’s not there. But, on a relative level, he’s an
angry boss. And it does hurt, and he can fire you.

[student: Wouldn’t the same proof that we did for the parts of the pen apply to
this?]

Yeah, absolutely.

[student: The same idea.]

[student: Yeah, but it’s all being labeled on to the emptiness of the boss.]

No, it’s labels... what is it really? You never see the whole body. You know that.
You can’t see the bottom of his feet, you can’t see his back, he could be one of
these Robot Cops, [laughter], you don’t know....

[student: And red.]

Yeah, yeah, yeah [unclear] [laughs] [laughter]. You really don’t know. You take
certain indications, you select indications, and you form a mental image of an
angry boss. And then you mistake that image for the boss. That’s the highest
teaching of Buddhism. Why do you interpret that redness, that sweating, and
that voice level as an angry boss? What forces you to do that? A {bakchak},
accept it, believe it, there’s a {bakchak}. There’s one of those nasty little seeds in
your mind making you see him that way. In fact, now, next time you see your
angry boss.... I was sick the other day in class. It was very uncomfortable. And
so I’m thinking, you know, this is my {bakchak} ripening. I’m seeing Rinpoche
and everything seems, you know, I’m kind of dizzy and feel an upset stomach
and my head hurts and these are all indications which I’m labeling. Can I get
out? I would really like to be out of this right now. I really wanted to be out of
this. But it’s too late. That is reality, real, that’s reality. And it hurts. And that’s
why you have to... the game is to change the {bakchaks}. The game is to use up
the old {bakchaks}, get rid of the old {bakchaks}, get new {bakchaks}, don’t react
to the old {bakchaks} by making new lousy {bakchaks}, that’s the name of the
game. Once you start hurting it’s too late.

[student: Michael, could you say that the fact that your boss got angry at you to
begin with is also part of your...]
Absolutely. Everything about him, a mole on his cheek. [laughter]

[student: Not what you interpret, but whatever.. whatever interdependent
arising is going on between you....]

Interdependent arising means, the definition in the highest school of
interdependent arising, is that I see indications of an angry boss, and I impute... I
label them “angry boss”, and it is an angry boss and it hurts me.

[student: But I’m asking... the fact that he got angry at you is also a result of
your karma. I’m not talking about the interpretive process, I’m talking about...]

Not only do we define actions by the result, but we define a thing as a “good
karma” or a “bad karma” by whether it hurts us or not. If something hurts you,
it must have been from a bad karma. It can go both ways.

[student: So if somebody gets angry at you, it may or may not be your bad
karma...]

No, it depends on how it makes you feel. If their getting angry at you hurts you,
which normally it does, it’s unpleasant for you, it must be a ripening of bad
karma. What you do from that moment on is total free will. If you want free
will, there’s your free will. You have a choice at that moment. You can react the
way the whole world reacts which is with more {bakchaks}.... We had it
Saturday. We walked out of here and this big guy came up to Lee Mason and he
knocked her on her ass. [laughs] And there was another guy standing near and
he said: “Ain’t you going to do nothing about it?” [laughter] No! Do what?
We just finished a {bakchak}. Great! If she doesn’t get mad, she didn’t get mad...
it was very admirable. [laughs]. She didn’t look grand, but, you know, we
should have a {bakchak} party, you know, one more {bakchak} gone. [laughter].
One more {bakchak} gone and no new {bakchak} planted.                No violence
committed. Very nice.

[student: This aspect of the unfindable parts, the infinitely smaller and smaller
parts which all come together to be perceived and interpreted. What causes the
arising of those and how does that happen?]

Ultimately... this is the point where the Buddha said “I can’t answer you because
you’re wanting them to be self-existent [unclear]...
[student: I’m not asking them to be self-existent, but...]

I know. I’m asking you to think. {Bakchaks}. Are they mental? Not according
to Madhyamika Prasangika. They are outside according to the higher schools.

[student: So how does karma cause physical arising? How does a {bakchak}
cause a physical arising?]

Well, when you get down to those physical arisings, they are a perception
created, placed upon smaller parts [unclear] and ultimately, yeah, it’s all an
imputation of [unclear]].

[student: Labeling on to the boss or making your boss appear that way is
different from making the boss.]

I understand, that’s true. Well, not really. You gotta cook it.

[student: In one case you’re saying there’s nothing out there but your mind, and
in another case you’re saying....]

There are indications...

[student: There is something... there seems to be something out there.]

[student: At the same time someone else doesn’t see the boss as the angry boss,
so what’s seeing what?]

I knew this would come up. I knew this moment would come in the class and I
want to leave it right there. [laughter] I don’t want you to worry about it. We’ll
talk about it in the next class. We’re going to do the Diamond Sutra and it’s
going to be the... and it’s not just out of...I’m not playing. I’m saying that it’s the
whole crux, and leave it there. You’ll see why. [laughs] All right. The last thing,
the last question is ... and I’m also going to... I’m actually almost going to end on
time. So the Mind Only School comes to these Prasangikas and says: “Well, then
what did the Buddha mean when he said everything is mind only? According to
you guys, it’s not just mind only. There are indications out there and you’re
labeling them, you’re interpreting them in certain ways. Well, if it’s not mind
only, why does the Buddha say everything was mind only? And the Prasangikas
give two answers. The first answer is in a negative way and the second is in a
positive way. The negative answer is: the Buddha wanted you to know that
these are creations of karma and not of some...what?

[student: Real thing.]

No. What?

[student: Creator God.]

Yeah. There’s no God up there saying “Gee, I think I’ll give so-and-so some
cancer today.” So in a negative way, the Buddha said “hell is made by your
mind” so you wouldn’t think it was made by some sadistic guy. In a positive
way, what do you get? He wanted you to know that the mind is the main thing.
Mind as opposed to what? What is it that really causes us? Where did you really
come from? We talked about that first moment of you in your mommy’s
stomach.

[student: Me as a self-existent being came from anger.]

[laughs] Yeah, it came from your mind. Your mind... we’re talking about the
twelve links of dependent origination, right? What’s the first link up there? It’s
your ignorance. It says the world is mind only in the sense that it’s mainly mind,
in the sense that it’s mainly coming from your own mind’s ignorance of the past.
That’s what the Buddha meant when he said all this stuff is mind only. He did not
mean that you are looking at your own consciousness and seeing things
appearing on that consciousness. That’s what Chandrakirti said to the Mind
Only School. That’s what the Buddha meant when he said Mind Only. Maybe
you want to change the name of your school now or something? Okay? That’s
all. [laughter].

[student: Can you go over that last part again?]

Yeah. In a negative way, the world is mind only in the sense that it is the
creation of your former karma, mainly {yo sempa}, mainly your mind, and not
the creation of a God. And that’s why we say Mind Only. And in a positive way,
you should understand that mind is the main thing. Mind is the main attribute.
Main cause. Okay. So I just want to say, you know, what’s the whole practical
implementation of all this? It makes it very clear. Once you get this explanation..
so you now have a decent argument for how karma is planted in your mind, by
you, and how it comes back to you. Then what do you have to do? You cannot,
any more, ignore any one of your actions. You have to go down now to a very
fine level of observation of the self. And you have to watch yourself. Now you
can’t allow any more {bakchaks} to be planted. Even by negligence, or even by
compulsion. You are now educated. You know what’s happening now. You’ve
got to now... any time you see yourself doing something bad, it’s planting a
{bakchak}, it absolutely is and must be planting a {bakchak}. Once that {bakchak}
is planted, it’s very hard to get it out of the mindstream. Extremely difficult.
You’re going to have to experience it. Now you know how... the whole principle
of how you experience it is basically accepted by Madhyamika. So now you’ve
got to be goddamned careful with your {bakchaks}. Now in your whole life,
you’ve got to be very careful with what you do and say and what you think.
Because every time you do something, every time you think something, it’s
planted and it stains your mind. To get it out is almost impossible. To purify
that is almost impossible. Now it gives you even more reason to follow those
ten. You must follow those ten.

[student: It’s almost impossible to [unclear]]

I mean, a very good Mahayana purification can do it, but don’t forget that that
involves {dompsen}. {Dompsen} means restraining yourself from ever doing it
again. Successful purification doesn’t mean having a nice ceremony or making
your mind pure so the {bakchaks} will stop. It depends a lot on the process of
not doing it any more.        And most of us who have learned purification
ceremonies think that the next day we can throw more {bakchaks} in there.
Like, why worry, you know, the day after you can clean them all out. If you’re
still doing what you did ten years ago, which I am, then all those purification
ceremonies are not complete. There’s something not there, lacking, it’s not
going to work. You have to be very careful.

[student: The Mind Only presentation sounds like... you mentioned it at the end
of the class yesterday. It sounds like the last class where it makes you the
Creator God of everything, and if you’re the being that’s creating everyone else
out there through these {bakchaks} in the {kunshi}, right, then why do you need
to create all these other things? Why do you need to have a sequence? Why do
you need to create this time frame within which all these things are appearing?
Why not get it over with and do what you want?]

When Rinpoche was asked that question in the [unclear] in Brooklyn... were you
there then? In 1976? He said, what do you want, all these Buddhas are going to
be in [unclear] [laughter].
[student: Well, there are [unclear] So I’m just fooling myself into thinking
[unclear] by the {kunshi}]

Anyway, to me that’s one of the most important classes you ever had. And now
you have to buy karma because you have a good argument for it.

[student: Michael, can I ask you a question about the way the karma is stored in
Madhyamika Prasangika?]

[student: Yeah, you were saying that they say it’s just carried in “me”, right?
Would an accurate way to think of that be to say that all of your past karmas
have formed your mind to be how it is now, therefore the present state of your
mind in the present moment is the result or outcome of all your past karma? It’s
predisposition to behave any certain way is the sum of all your past karma?
Therefore, you [unclear]

You can say that [unclear]

[student: Say that again? Your mind...]

John Stillwell [unclear]

[student: Yeah.]

And also is determined by

END
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HOW KARMA WORKS