ACI 2 «Буддийское Прибежище», занятие 11

[prayer: refuge]

  [prayer: short mandala]

Okay, I’m gonna to … we’re going to review, that’s where we are, right?
Anymore questions about this homework?
[student: yeah, ….]
[student: would you just go over the whole thing? So I can get it back in time for
the test.]
Oh, today’s homework. I don’t mind that. I think that’s wise. I think we blew
that last time. We didn’t do that. What mistake has someone made if they
assume that Maitreya is already a Buddha when they’re debating whether the
person who wrote this book is doing it for his own benefit or for others. If they
assume he’s a Buddha, if their argument is coming from the place that they think
Buddha’s don’t need to worry about themselves, then they’ve already broken a
rule of debate, which is that you can’t bring up tantra. You can’t get into that
realm in a sutra debate. Otherwise, you’re going to get very confused as you , if
you’ve had any exposure to it you know. So, he said, “You have failed to
distinguish between what we call [{Tibetan}] which means the way which is
shared and the way which is not shared.” What’s the way which is shared - The
three Principal Paths. Which is the way which is not shared. Because why is it
shared? Because you need it in tantra and you need it in sutra to get anywhere.
In fact, this is the cause for succeeding in tantra. And then he, he has failed to
distinguish between secret and non secret . Maybe he’s right but he shouldn’t
have brought it up in the context of the open teachings.
[student: it’s out of context]
Yeah, it’s a failure to distinguish the right time to talk about these things.
[student: so, that’s the answer]
Yeah. Can a Mahayana person have the aspiration to fulfill his own needs? Of
course. And you, you’ve had it in several, several different ways. You’ve had it
as the person who … in the Lam Rim, he follows the lesser person then the
medium person’s motivation. You’ve had it in the refuge when he, he also
shares the motivation of the lower two, but not as an exclusive motivation.
[laughter]
And Dharmakirti, he said, he just say, [answers telephone, ‘Hi, this is Roach, ya,
ya, I’m in the middle of a class but I have to tell you so I’ll call you later okay?
Good, It’s a deal, okay, yeah, bye.]
[student: Michael, before you go on to the next question, isn’t it a point that a
Mahayana person has the … has to, not can. must]
   [student: he has to have bodhicitta]
Yeah, and apparently, people still …. I asked Rinpoche and went through it with
him and he got {tunmo} with me. Tunmo is what? Do you know what Tunmo
means?
[student: waah!]
Tunmo is the honorific for ..
[student: [unclear German word] as they say in Germany]
[laughter]
….a lama is rough on you. You know, it’s his wrathful aspect. So you know, he,
I asked him three times over and he doesn’t like that at all. He doesn’t like it the
first time. You know, why a Buddha still has bodhicitta. And it’s like, “Are you
crazy, he doesn’t care about other beings?” But, he said, Ariel brought it up in
the classroom well, she said, “If he has the aspiration to Buddhahood, the
aspiration, is almost by definition, when you don’t have something and you’re
aspiring to get something.” And in Tibetan it’s {ma toba ….} So I said, “Well
does he have {ma toba…} He says, “No.”
He says, “He has aspiration but it’s not the kind of aspiration where you try to
get something you don’t have.” So, I said, “Well, isn’t that the meaning of
aspiration?’
He said, “No, he’s got the kind of aspiration where he just wants to be a
Buddha.”
And she said, “Well that’s not aspiration unless there is a chance to get
Buddhahood so he could so he could aspire to keep his Buddhahood. He wants
to help others and he wants to be a Buddha. And that’s not … that sounds
[unclear] He never loses the want to be a Buddha. And we call that want{dunya}
and it’s an unusual use of the word aspiration. So I think you have to leave it like
that. It’s not aspiration in it’s normal sense. It isn’t something that you don’t
have.
[student: it’s already having it and still wanting to have it.]
Well, logically, this is exactly what we do in the debate ground. get to this point.
All the students agree. We sit there and say well, that’s all it can be. That’s all it
can mean. What else could it mean here? And then we go and, somebody,
actually what happens normally is you go and read a scripture and suddenly you
see oh, this guy said exactly what we just said. That’s normally what happens.
You figure it out on the debate ground and the next day you find it in a tenth
century text. So it’s just pretty much has to be like that. So your questions were
good, valid.
[student: we could ask some more]
[Laughter]
That’s what this review is for.
[student: so before Buddhahood, bodhicitta is the aspiration to become a Buddha
for the benefit of all beings .]
That you haven’t reached yet.
[student: to become a Buddha, the key operative word here is become. Okay,
then after one becomes a Buddha, bodhicitta is still there but there’s a nuance to
it which is to stay a Buddha even though you couldn’t unbecome a Buddha , to
stay as a Buddha or would like to be a Buddha. That makes sense.]
That’s the only logical thing.
[student: so bodhicitta is there in both cases and the wish to help others doesn’t
change so it’s just the understanding of being a Buddha. That makes sense]
All right.
   [student: can you go over the whole exam so we know what to expect]
Oh, and the last step, oh, what did Dharmakirti say was necessary to [unclear] is
very easy, should have been ... and he’s speaking specifically about mantras that
should have been composed by a holy being and from our side, you have to
follow the rules of that practice. So this applies to all tantric practice. Not just the
mantras. The tantra has to have been instituted by a holy being.
[student: a holy being, not a Buddha?]
It’s … all it says is {gype dampa}that usually means a Buddha.
[student: in the text, all it talks about is the teacher, the one who gives the
initiation, the preceptor.]
Okay.
[student: is it referring to the {lung} or is it referring to the initial origination of
the tantra?]
[student: that was one of the qualifications of a lama, incidentally, that he be a
holy being.]
[All talking]
[student: could you just review number four the quiz question?]
What’s it say?
[student: does emptiness itself have parts? How so?]
Just about everybody got that right. Does anybody want to explain?
You prove the emptiness and you prove the parts of space [unclear]
[All talking and laughing-Geshe Michael unclear]
No, it was alright, the one where you’re supposed to put the part of mental
objects, not, not physical and then the other one was emptiness not space.
Maybe you confused space and emptiness because that happens a lot. I mean
great scholars are confused about that.
[student: Michael, on that last question, the Dharmakirti question, you said, the
way you worded it on the exam, it sounded like you gave the Tibetan class two
distinct terms.]
Was it, I don’t remember.
[student: the two must be present, name them.]
Yeah, don’t worry about it. It’s what you wrote. It will be there.
[student: I didn’t say anything about holy beings, I just said teacher.]
No, teacher’s alright.
[student: on the homework for today, under two A, is a simple yes a good
answer or is that a little lame?]
What’s the question?
[student: Suppose Maitreya is a Buddha, does he still have the wish for
enlightenment?]
In this case, a simple yes answer is acceptable. Normally, it’s not good to answer
like that. Anybody else?
[student: I have a question from way back. Do we have to memorize the long
definitions of the Greater Way?]
No.
[student: this is coming from the quizzes right?]
The final only comes from quizzes.

[Everyone talking]

[student: so the answer to two B]
[student: so if Maitreya’s already a Buddha if yes, does the wish fit the short
definition for the wish for enlightenment? I think a simple yes may not be as
welcome.]
Ah, that’s okay. Obviously, it’s preferable if you did show some cause. He still
wants to help, he still wants to be a Buddha. We’re not going to say become.
You could define it for a bodhisattva would be all right. Maybe you could get
out of it that way.
[student: say that again.]
That a bodhisattva, if you decided this way you might get out of the whole
problem. The definition of a bodhisattva is to want to be a Buddha.
[student: that would stretch it a little better]
Yeah you stretch the word.
[student: would you answer the question, when you have the wish for
enlightenment, you achieve the dharmakaya and the dharmakaya is the
enjoyment body?]
No, those are separate. The enjoyment body is the form body which is the ….
[student: the nirmanakaya or rupakaya?]
Yeah, the form body has two parts. There’s the part of his beautiful form in
paradise then there’s the part of his form as he shows it on earth.
[student: so which is the enjoyment body?]
The one that’s in his paradise.
[student: sambogakaya?]
 Samboga. A lot of people get that mixed up. A lot of lamas say samboba and
they mix it up.
[student: so when you say he’s trying to pursue his own, fulfill his own needs
and you’re using the explanation of pursuing enjoyment body ..]
Oh, that’s only for others’ needs. That’s principally for others’ needs. The
function of the form body principally is to help other people. It’s the fulfillment
of other people’s needs . It’s the only way he can teach.
[student: and which provides him with the enjoyment body]
It is the enjoyment body.
[student: it is the enjoyment body. So ..]
The fulfillment of others’ needs and the enjoyment body are the same thing.
[student: so, in terms of, in terms of the wish, right ....]
Oh, what gives him the enjoyment body? Mainly the collection of merit as
opposed to the collection of wisdom.
[student: what I was trying to get to was using that body to define how the wish
fulfills his needs. See what I mean?]
No. The wish , no.
[student: it doesn’t work that way?]
No, no. The dharmakaya is the fulfillment of his needs mainly, principally.
[student: in what way?]
Omniscience. And removing all his … realizing all objects and removing all
obstacles. That’s fulfills his benefit. That’s mainly his benefit. And the fact that he
shows himself which is the whole rupakaya part or form body, is mainly for
other people. It’s mainly the fulfillment of other peoples needs.
[student: is somewhere in there is it implied that since it is mainly for the benefit
of other beings, then, otherwise were it not for that, it’s not necessary for a
Buddha or a being on that level to have any kind of form body at all.]
Yeah, mainly it’s for other beings.
[student: right. So, were it not for the bodhicitta involved, they could exists in
some sort of dharmakaya form and that’s it, and the only beings who could
contact them are beings in that form.]
[student: I still think that’s a really artificial distinction. I mean how much good
are you without omniscience?]
Oh not much. And that’s why they say principally.
[student: yeah]
Or maybe you feel more comfortable with direct benefit. Manifest benefit. You
see that’s not improper in the debate to say you know the form body is the
manifest benefit.       But the driver behind the form body is obviously the
dharmakaya.
[student: I missed the first class and maybe I’m just a dummy.                  What’s
dharmakaya?]
Oh, when you divide the bodies into two, when you divide them also into three
or four, there’s mainly the form body or the dharma body. The dharma body
consists of His omniscience and the emptiness of that omniscience. And then the
form body consists of two different bodies. The one He shows on earth and the
one He, and then the one that lives in His paradise. His physical manifestation.
Whether it be in His own paradise or whether it be on planet earth for the
benefit of us. Those two form bodies are called the nirmanakaya. The
nirmanakaya is the one He sends down to earth. Nirman means to send down.
It’s a movie, movie theatre, a video body. The other one is the sambogakaya
which means you know, the body which is blissing out in it’s paradise. It’s the
enjoyment body. Then dharmakaya is dharmakaya.
[student: samboga means bliss out?]
Yeah. It means {zopa long chupa?} to enjoy to it’s fullest and literally.
[student: so he also [unclear]]
I’m sure he does by helping others. People can learn directly from sambogakaya
but it has to be very high bodhisattvas. Like?
[student: Maitreya?]
No. Asanga.
[student: when you say it’s a body, does it … what does it look like? Does it
physically look anything like a person?]
Well that’s a good point and I like Thubten Jenpa. I like him for one reason. He
thinks about translations. He doesn’t accept the old ones. He calls it the
embodiment. In Arizona he kept using that word and I kinda like it. Meaning,
you know, not that ..
cause the dharmakaya, the body of dharma, what does that mean? There’s no
thing you can see. Body normally means you can see. Or that he has four
bodies running around. I used to get really confused about that. The word is
body, the word is four bodies, but obviously they aren’t like these kinds of
bodies. Their all just aspects of the same being. They’re like the five heaps of
that being.
[student: so the sambogakaya and the dharmakaya are not like human forms,
they’re some kind of…]
Right. They’re described as visible but not matter.
[student: the dharmakaya also?]
No. The two form bodies are visible but they’re not what we call in Tibetan
{pembo?}
Which means particulate matter. They are stuff but not matter. They’re visible
but not matter. They’re touchable but not matter. They’re physical but not
matter. That’s difficult.
[student: so if you perceive emptiness directly and with the individual analysis
you see the dharmakaya, what does it look like?]
It has its emptiness. When I say see, I mean, you know… [student: perceived]
perceive in your mind.
[student: dharmakaya encompasses both form body and dharma body.]
No. Dharmakaya only is the half which includes his omniscience and the
emptiness of that omniscience.
[student: so that’s sambogakaya]
No. Sambogakaya is the bliss, the physical body in His paradise.
[student: the two bodies which can then be divided into two, with each being
divided into two.]
[student: I’m going back to the first one.]
I don’t mind.
[student: you, and I took down the quote, you repeated it.]
I hate it when you quote me. [Laughs]
[student: what makes something an ultimate refuge, and I quote, “is a quality of
being the final goal achieved with regards to the journey along the path.”]
No, what makes some…..
[student: [laughter] this was a quote.]
No, what makes something as an ultimate refuge is when the journey along the
path has been completed. That’s the definition. [student: redundant but it’s good]
No, if you are in a debate they say, well there is a reason, you know, they are
trying to make it … try to emphasize [unclear] or they are trying to emphasize
that is not the path that he’s on. So you could say …
[student: the final refuge is that the end of the journey towards to the final
refuge?]
I have one question okay. [laughter]
The last three bhumis, the last three bodhisattva levels. Normally people get
confused because I’m confused. I looked up, I used the computer and I want to
put a plug in for the computer. I was able in a traffic jam in the Lincoln Tunnel to
look up every reference to the eighth bodhisattva level in a few minutes and
read them all. And, and understand everything that the book says about them
and it’s a thousand pages you know. And then I just cut it out , cut them all out
and paste them together and put it in another file Now I can read you every
reference to the eighth bhumi and they’re all interesting. They shed a lot of light
on it. And they explain why I was confused. So, here we go. The first section I
cut out says that, and you don’t have to write them all, it may be too much for
you to write it down. It says that a person who’s on a pure level such as eighth,
ninth, tenth, bodhisattva levels, in their, in the period in which they’re out of
meditation on emptiness, right, when they’re not in direct meditation on
emptiness, things appear to them as truly existing but they don’t believe it. So
that was the first thing he said. And here’s the one I think kinda helps the most,
the next one. It says according to our own system which is who?
[student: Tsongkapa]
Yeah, don’t forget even {Khenpo? Denpa Dhargye} when he teaches Sautantrika,
he puts on a Sautantrika hat. And he says, “According to our own system, a
person who has not been on a lower track before,” there are people who start
on a Mahayana track, you know, it’s not necessary that you start on one of the
lower tracks, you could start on the Mahayana track. So he’s saying, “let’s talk
about a {menla mowa musowa?} it means a person who started right off on
track number three from the beginning.
[student: I thought you had to do them in chronological..]
No, you don’t have to go up through the three tracks. You can start right on
Mahayana track, in fact they encourage you to do that. They say it saves time.
You can start right from the first path of the Mahayana track. He’s talking about
a person like that. Why, why, why did he say that? He doesn’t want to … he
wants to isolate that person who is going through the bhumis without ever
having been an arhat before. Because he’s been an arhat before, he’s gotten rid
of all his mental affliction obstacles meaning mental afflictions and their seeds
before. So, it would a little bad … it will be a bad case to try and figure out
when does a person who’s only been on the bodhisattva track get rid of his
mental afflictions, which is the interesting thing. [student: and when does he]
Okay, good.
Good. So, the first thing, you know what he is. He’s a bodhisattva who’s never
been on the lower track. He reaches the same level as the Hinayana arhats as
far as getting rid of his mental afflictions and their seeds, and he achieves total
Buddhahood at the same time.
[student: oh, it happens at the end]
[student: you said that originally]
Yeah, then I flipflopped.
[student: how can that be possible, that would mean that he hadn’t perceived
emptiness directly]
No, no. He gets rid of his {nyun drup} his mental affliction obstacles, meaning
mental afflictions and their seeds, only at the moment in which he achieves
Buddhahood, which means that he carries them through, what?
[student: all the paths]
The last three bhumis too. He still has them on the last three bhumis. So the
point at which he has abandoned everything that a Hinayana arhat has
abandoned is not till he achieves Buddhahood. It’s not until he achieves
Buddhahood that he’s gotten rid of all the baggage that a lower arhat has
already gotten rid of, as far as mental affliction obstacles. But he also gets rid of
what?
[student: the obstacles to omniscience]
The omniscience obstacles. Does the lower guy get rid of those ever? No, never.
So we can say that a person who’s never been on the lower track abandons the
mental affliction obstacles and the omniscience obstacles at the same time.
[student: at the same time he reaches Buddhahood]
At the moment he becomes a Buddha. Yeah. And that was my point of
confusion.
[student: so they get the nirvana and the omniscience simultaneously, whereas
someone who’s already been a Hinayana               arhat gets the omniscience as
Buddhahood.]
Yeah, but this is not on your exam, I’m just saying it gets a little confusing. I just
want it said. And I can correct his, now I can correct his chart. But I couldn’t, I
didn’t want to go on not knowing. [student: but wait a minute [unclear]] By the
way it says here, and I’m going to quote it directly, it says, by the way, he quotes
the scripture to prove it, from the Tengyur, and then he says, “Therefore when
a, when a bodhisattva gets rid of his mental affliction obstacles, he at the same
time gets rid of his omniscience obstacles and so, he says, at the same moment
he becomes an arhat and a Buddha.”
[student: but Michael, what does that do to the path of no more learning? How
is that a path then?]
It’s not a path. It never was. The path of no more learning is just a result.
[student: but that’s Buddhahood so why even name it?]
Cause it’s called, well, I don’t know. I don’t know why they call it path frankly
because, by that time it’s really a state you reach from the first four paths. Is that
what you mean?
[student: right but it’s made it sound like it’s the last ..]
No, it’s not the last stage, it’s the result. It is the result. Lam … Path number five
is the result in every case. No more learning is just the result of the first four
paths. It’s called a path but don’t forget a path can just mean knowledge, a state
of knowledge. It doesn’t mean, you know something that gets you somewhere
necessarily.
[student: then why isn’t it called omniscience.]
[student: well, no more learning is omniscience isn’t it?]
Mahayana no more learning path, Mahayana arhat, Buddhahood, moment after
intense bodhisattva bhumi finishes, getting rid of your mental affliction obstacles
in this school, getting rid of your omniscience obstacles if by the way you
haven’t done that first one before a lower path, goes all [unclear].
[student: in this school, maybe the important quality … ]
We’re getting there.
[student: Mahayana arhat who was a Hinayana arhat before.]
Right, right. Now, here’s an answer to another question I had. He says, this just
happened to pop up so I wrote it down. “A person who has {du pa semkye} in
the form of bodhicitta in which you are actually engaging, you have that with …
what paths can you have that on? He says, “You’ve had it from the first path of
the Mahayana track, the path of accumulation, up to, up to, up to Buddha level.”
You can have that kind of bodhicitta which is engaging.
[student: the first path [unclear] goes on]
Right, obviously.
[student: we were talking about track, you were calling track..]
Mahayana track. And then he says something interesting. He says, “But the
wishing form, the praying form, the form in which you’re praying, and which
does not rely directly on actually engaging or taking the vows,” he says you can
have that from the first path of Mahayana which is the accumulation path, all the
way to the eighth bodhisattva level. Through the seventh.
[student: how can you be a bodhisattva without having …]
So now, I asked Rinpoche. I got him in a corner. [laughs] He hasn’t looked at
this stuff for thirty five years. I mean, you have to realize that too. I said listen,
“Now can you have both at the same time?” No, because I presented it in class,
in one of these classes as one is before you take the vows and one is after you
take the vows. Now, I now think that’s probably wrong. Okay. I think it’s that,
that the key is on the word it depends on the vows, depends on actually
engaging. So I think you can have the mind, in the back of your mind, while
you’re in the room and not directly engaging in helping other people. Looks like
that.
[student: you wouldn’t have those simultaneously?]
Well that’s the question. I don’t know, I don’t think so. I don’t think you’d have
them at the same moment. Maybe you alternate between them.
[student: is that not dependent on taking the vows?]
Directly dependent on taking vows. No maybe you’re not at that moment
engaging in activities that are keeping your vows. We gotta study that more. I
admit that. No time tonight. Okay. Alright. And he says, the reason I brought
that up is that it says here, “From the eighth level up, to the wisdom that is out
of meditation, there is no … there is never a time when the object does not
appear to that person as not being self existent.” Which to put it positively,
stating it, “All objects are appearing not as self existent to the person who’s on
the last three bhumis.
[student: appearing empty?]
Can’t say empty. There’s a trick here. They are appearing, there’s never a time
when objects are not appearing to a person on the last three bodhisattva bhumis
as not self existent.
[student: which means that they’re always appearing as self existent if they’re in
meditation.]
No, there’s never a time when they’re not appearing not as self existent which is
to say positively, they’re always appearing as not self existent.
[student: go back.]
Wait, we’re going to get there. Stay with me, this is interesting. This is a little bit
too interesting.
[student: it’s not a review!]
I’ll give you all the answers!
Laughter.
[All talking.]
Here’s something it says, {Tibetan} [unclear]
A person from the eighth bodhisattva level has given up permanently the
manifest form of grasping to self existence. He has the seed but it no longer ever
happens directly.
[student: so that’s the same … we had that in here]
[student: go back to the first…] [student: we had that as a level, as a bodhisattva
level]
Wait, listen to them all then tell me if you…. Then ask me questions about it.
[student: the ripening bodhicitta? Is that the same one? Still has the seeds but
everything is gone.]
Yeah. Here’s the catch okay. Here’s why I get confused. He says, “Now I’m
going to talk about whether or not you can say that this book that we’re
studying,” which is what?
[Laughter]
[Everyone talking!]
We’re studying a commentary on the Prajnaparamita. It’s Asanga’s book. “The
Ornament of Realization”. He says, some debater comes up and says this is a
Prasangika book. This book is Prasangika. And the way he beats him is , he
says, “Oh, well I guess that this book says that you get rid of your mental
affliction obstacles at the eighth level.” Which means what? What does that
imply?
[student: that the Prasangikas say that you get rid of the mental afflictions
obstacles at the eighth level.]
The eighth level, okay. See what I mean? That’s the debate. That’s pretty clear,
at least to me.
[Laughs]
That’s all. So it means that the reason I was confused is I just got out of
Madyamika a couple of years ago, Prasangika, and they taught us in that class at
the eighth level you get rid of the mental afflictions and all the seeds, but not in
this course. Okay. Next thing is that there’s never a time when the compassion
of a person at the eighth level doesn’t realize that the beings it’s focused on are
empty.
[student: again, never, not ]
Yeah. It’s always seeing them as empty. They look, they look, they look like
they’re not empty but he knows they are. Here’s the last one then we’ll really
go to the review. {Depa lu ga} In this system, {sen jun…..} the sentient beings
that the compassion is looking at appear to be
both self existent and also appear to be not self existent. [laughter] The sentient
beings that this [unclear] is focused on both appear to be self existent and also
appears to be not self existent
[student: to whom?]
To a person on the eighth level. That’s what I want to get to.
[student: simultaneously?]
Yes.
[student: I thought only Buddhas saw emptiness ...]
Right! Good, good, good. So what it’s saying is this. On the eighth level up,
there’s never a time when the bodhisattva isn’t directly aware that he’s crazy.
That things are an illusion. And that awareness is called things appearing to him
as self existent. And things appearing to him at the same time as not being self
existent. Just that thinking that way. But it’s not like the Buddha because a
Buddha is seeing a horse and a stick at exactly the same time. He’s like some
kind of unbelievable spectator who sees the deceptive reality and the real thing
at the same time. Which is almost incomprehensible. Who could come up to a
magic show and see the stick as a stick and the stick as an elephant at the same
time.
[student: this is like the latecomer.]
No.
[student: not the Buddha but the eighth level up]
It’s the eighth level up. It is.
[student: it’s like a non Buddha that’s why they say a non Buddha]
[student: no it’s not]
[student: all he’s seeing is emptiness]
Who?
[student: it’s an emptiness meditation]
No, he’s saying the late, oh, you’re right. You’re right. He’s more like the
magician. So that’s all. Now I really will go through the final. Just don’t write
down the question. That would be tacky.
[Laughter]
[student: once studying Lam Rim I was taught that you have to develop the
motivation
of the three schools, the first, then the middle then the higher.]
Oh, in the Lam Rim, you mean in sequence, in order?
[student: yeah]
[student: you have to have renunciation and bodhicitta.]
Ah, that’s true.
[student: so how can you go straight through to Mahayana and not go through
the lesser scopes?]
Well don’t forget this is a whole track . Oh, getting renunciation and getting
bodhicitta is Mahayana track.
[student: so as soon as you start Mahayana you spontaneously have gotten ..]
True renunciation and true bodhicitta are created at the same time. As opposed
to
goosebump renunciation and sugarcane bodhicitta.
[student: right at the outset of the path]
Yeah.
[student: goosebump renunciation?]
There’s a thing called goosebump renunciation. That’s what you get when your
mother dies. Seriously. Everyone gets that. And for two months you’re moral
and you’re aware of the impermanence of life and you’re very sensitive to
people and you … and everything is really religious. You are for a short period,
you’re like, really aware of the high truths and of what’s important and what’s
not important. And then it wears out and it wears off. That’s why it’s called
goosebump,it’s not real but it’s very close. When somebody really close to you
dies, especially your mother ….
[student: does it happen with your father?]
I say especially with your mother. You know unless you’re one of these people
who had terrible experiences with their mother. But it’s very rare. Normal,
normal people. Normal experiences. Alright. Give a brief definition of the
perfection…. don’t write this down!
[Laughter]
We’ll just go around. This is fun. I mean I wanted to do this upstairs but we
didn’t have room.
Ah, definition of perfection of wisdom.
[student: it’s a perception of emptiness which is linked with a desire filled with
love to help all sentient beings.]
The wish for enlightenment.
[student: under the influence of bodhicitta.]
Yeah. Please don’t write this down. Just listen. You can remember. You can get
the tape and play it.
[Laughter]
What’s the root text for our study?
[student: The Ornament Of Realization]
Yeah. Who spoke it?
[student: Maitreya spoke it to Asanga.]
Yeah. What are , notice I ask what are the estimated dates, it’s his, I mean God,
who knows.
[student: three hundred fifty]
Yeah, three hundred fifty A.D. Now I want to ask, John, who wrote the Tibetan
monastic commentary that we are studying?
[ John: Ah, Haribadra]
The Tibetan monastic commentary. Khedrup Denpa Dhargye. Don’t forget, I
mean he was born the year after Columbus came to America.
[student: couldn’t we just say it was five hundred years ago this year? It makes it
a lot easier.]
That’s great. Yeah. Yeah you have a point.
[student: that’s what I’m saying]
[Laughter]
[student: we could make T shirts]
Okay, 1493-1568. Nina, definition of the dharma jewel.
[Nina: if you ask me questions, I’m not going to answer right]
I’ll give you an easy one. Definition of taking refuge.
Short definition. Two things necessary. I mean minimum, minimum. If you get
this right I don’t care. Two things have to happen for you to go to mommy.
Come, you can guess. Why do you run to mommy? Why does anybody run to
their mother?
[student: for help. Any thought of it’s own accord that consists of hoping that an
object outside of oneself will render assistance.]
So basically, in fact I prefer if you put the two causes for that. One is fear and the
second one is belief that this can help you. Why do you run when something
bad happens? You run to mommy because you think she can help you.
[student: wait a minute, you didn’t use that in the original definition of refuge
because it wouldn’t necessarily be fear, ordinary refuge.]
Yeah, it’s not mentioned on there.
[student: you might buy a Mercedes to make you happy but that doesn’t mean
you’re afraid.]
Yeah, but, this is not taking refuge in Mahayana, this is not Buddhists taking
refuge.
Doesn’t it mean when you say render one assistance, that’s a kind of a problem.
[student: well, not necessarily fear]
Okay. Never mind.
Definition of dharma jewel.
[student: the dharma jewel is the enlightened side of truth, in which either a
cessation or a path that has been realized.]
Yeah and give me one example. Basically, it’s the enlightened side of existence
consisting either of a path or a cessation or both. I think I would cancel the both
part.
[student: really? Oh no we had it that way]
A cessation is permanent…..[unclear] Although in the next course, I might come
up with something that’s both. Something that’s close to both.
[student: you can’t say what?]
Don’t worry about it. Let me ask you a question. Give me an example of a
path.
[student: the three principle paths.]
Yeah, good, good, good. Name those three.
[student: renunciation, bodhicitta, and, correct view.]
Yeah. Okay, that’s an example of a path. Lee, example of cessation.
[Lee: anger]
Anger?
[lee: ah]
Maybe you’re talking about the end of anger. Yes, we’re talking about a
cessation.
[Student: that’s the example I gave on my homework.]
Then you have to say the end of anger. The permanent ending of anger in the
person’s mind stream. There’s other cessations. Ill give you a few.
Ill give you a few that don’t depend on individual analysis. They don’t depend
on …
[student: should we write these down or not?]
You also reach a cessation before you see emptiness directly where you can
never again destroy the basic virtues. You’ll never again destroy your basic
virtues through wrong view or anger.

[All talking]

[student: excuse me, you said several, you never destroy your basic virtue
through…]
Through anger or through wrong views.
[student: is that cessation the cause of a bigger cessation that you mentioned?]
Probably had something to do with that. It probably is related, but I wouldn’t
want to say. [unclear]
[student: you certainly couldn’t have it after the other one.]
Yeah, right.       Ariel, describe the refuge that we have in common with
practitioners of a lesser scope.
[Ariel: the fear of the suffering of the three lower realms and belief in the power
of the three jewels, that you can take refuge in one or more of the three jewels.]
Right, right, ooh. You must have been studying. You know the irony is you
guys know this better than I do. Okay. [Laughs] Riana, describe result refuge. A
lot of people got this wrong on the homework. I always used to get them
confused.
[Riana: I don’t know.]
Kiley, you know?
[student: any movement of the mind…….]
[Laughter]
[student: when you take refuge in your future Buddhahood?]
Yes.
[student: isn’t there a sutra that says eventually everybody will be.]
Absolutely. That’s the idea of Buddha nature. Because your own mind has
emptiness you will become a Buddha. What I’m saying is I don’t know ….
[student: that’s what they always say]
[student: Buddhas always say that]
[Laughter]
[student: who are you]
Barry, show me the definition of the greater ways wish to be enlightened.
[Barry: show me the definition of the greater way’s wish to be enlightened, I
think it’s bodhicitta is the wish to fulfill, perfectly fulfill the needs of others and of
yourself.]
No. Two wishes. What are the two wishes?
[student: the wish to attain enlightenment for the benefit of all sentient beings.]
And the wish to help all sentient beings. Those are the two wishes.
[student: well, that’s not fulfilling their needs..]
It is but …
[student: but you don’t include yourself in that, right?]
[All talking]
[student: the wish to help yourself…..]
Well, it is. This is for Kiley.          Describe the two types of the wish for
enlightenment. By the way it says here, if you know the two different ways of
splitting the wish into two, you may write either one. There’s two ways to split
them into two. I think you only learned one which is fine. Write down the one
you learned.
[student: what’s the other one?]
You’re going to get confused.
[student: don’t tell us]
Split bodhicitta into two and tell me what you get.
[student: unclear]
Engaging and try to describe it a little more. I don’t mind if you say it’s directly
involved with the act of a bodhisattva and one is not involved. Obviously
they’re both involved but not directly involved. One is directly involved with
taking the vows and one is not directly involved with taking the vows, but I
don’t think the second one is for the person who hasn’t taken vows. It’s just not
directly involved with his vows.
[student: may I ask, is this the wish for enlightenment as a prayer does not
depend on..]
It’s directly dependent on it. I think I may have put it on your homework.
[student: it depends on one having taken the vow]
Yeah that’s incorrect.
[student: what distinction does that make, directly]
I can tell you what it means in the case of acting out as a bodhicitta and I think I
told you that as a bodhisattva. They have been defined in the text.
Directly involved in the activity of a bodhisattva means you know actually
giving somebody something with the conscious intention that by this act may I
become a Buddha and may he become my [unclear]
[student: and may he become my student in my future Buddhahood]
Directly involved with that or with the activities of a Buddha, the bodhisattva,
what it means to be directly dependent on the vows, I don’t know.
[student; but you emphasized with the wish of engagement that all activities,
body speech or mind are assessed in terms of how conducive …]
Well there is this thing in Shantideva where even when the bodhisattvas pissing,
he’s doing it for sentient beings so … I don’t know. Anyway, I’ll have to study
that one, frankly.
Number ten. Give the definition of nirvana.
[student: nirvana is the cessation of which comes from individual analysis]
What is it a cessation of?
[student: cessation of mental afflictions]
Yeah and the obstacles. By the way, if you’ve been a dharma student for a while,
please don’t write down these things that you learned ten years ago in
somebody’s class okay. It irritates me. Sometimes the more advance students,
they don’t bother to study precisely and they come in and they write down
something they heard in some class and I know what it is, I heard it too, you
know it’s imprecise and it’s incorrect. So go study exactly what the book says
okay, that’s the reason you’re here.
[student: are you distinguishing the knowledge and the semantics or … ]
No I’m saying the way that Khedrup Denpa Dhargye expressed it because
there’s always a reason why he did that . He’s not just, you’re probably getting
a feeling now for why he doesn’t use a word unless he has something has
meaning to it. He doesn’t add another adjective unless it’s important. Especially
in a definition.
[student: except that oftentimes words aren’t qualified]
In what extent.
[student: like enlightenment]
Oh you mean he doesn’t say Mahayana enlightenment. You still get in trouble.
[student; you use the word and how do you know you know what the word
means]
There’s a study of that. We’ll get …
[student: I know … you did it on my homework]
[student: you gotta have something to debate in the monasteries]
Yeah, you gotta have something to debate. Okay. What does individual analysis
mean here meaning in the definition of [unclear]. Oh, we didn’t have that did
we?
[student: yeah, she said that]
Okay.
[Laughter]
You guys are getting real debaters now.
[student: it means the seeing the four noble truths one by one as a result of
having perceived emptiness]
Yeah, please add that second part. As a result of having perceived emptiness
directly.
Because otherwise the individual analysis of the four noble truths, you could do
that right now.
[student: don’t you also mean immediately after perceiving emptiness]
Yes, immediately after.
[student: it’s not something that happens ten years later you said, gee, ya know
I perceived it.]
Nina, what is nirvana with something left over and nirvana with nothing left
over?
In this school. What’s left over?
[Nina: the seed?]
No, you gotta study. T his is Monday we’re talking. The five suffering heaps.
Somebody in another class asked me does it only refer to your body, and I asked
Rinpoche and he said, “No, it’s all five heaps are suffering heaps”. They all get
transformed. And I said, ‘Well how could his mental heap be as lousy as his
physical heap because he’s now gotten rid of all his mental afflictions? Hasn’t his
mind in a sense already transformed and that’s not leftover?” And he said, “Well
in the sense that it was produced by his former karma and kleshas that mental
afflictions, is still dirty even though he’s having nice thoughts right now.” Okay
so from the viewpoint of having been produce by something impure, it’s
impure. Is it impure by it’s essence now. No, it’s pure. So we still say it’s in the
category of suffering heaps although he’s also not capable of suffering anymore.
It’s suffering in the sense that it was produced by his former bad deeds.
[student: well that sort of implies along with the physical heaps and the other
ones that no matter what you do once you get to that point, there’s nothing else
you can do until you die at that point.]
According to Hinayana that’s true. Once you got rid of your mental affliction
obstacles on December 14, 1993, you don’t have anything dirty in your mind.
It’s clean.
[student: no, no, but I’m saying in this case what’s left over, you said even the
mental is still left over because it’s produced by these other, it’s sort of a fatalistic
thing, even your mind , there’s nothing else you can do except wait until you die
and then they all going to be manifest purely.]
Yeah that’s true.
[student: what was that thing about a painful death, but that’s just…]
No the physical body is still gonna be painful. How he will perceive it..
[student: is different]
Right. Or how he’ll react to it is different. And I’m curious personally when we
get to Prasangika what they say. I’m not sure what they say.
[student: didn’t you tell us that they say you perceive emptiness directly and
then they come out of it?]
Yeah, right, for them left over means something else. But I don’t want to get
into it. Okay, whose turn is it … John. There’s a kind of nirvana called nirvana
which doesn’t stay. What is the meaning of the phrase doesn’t stay?
[student: [unclear] no matter where you are]
[Laughter]
[student: it means that you don’t abide in samsara or nirvana..]
In a lower realm. You better write that down. You don’t stay in samsara and
you don’t stay in a lower nirvana.
[student: I thought any nirvana you don’t call total nirvana is lower.] Don’t
assume anything. You’re in a nice monastic class here, you gotta be precise.
[student: I thought it was called the extreme of peace.]
Yeah they’re called the extreme of peace and the extreme of the world. By the
way, those are not the extremes the Middle path threads it’s way through. Some
people got that right on the homework. When you talk about Madyamika,
when you talk about the middle path, the middle path is also going through two
extremes but it ain’t those two extremes. There’s two sets of two extremes.
When you talk about Madyamika, the two extremes are what? Thinking things
are self existent and thinking that if they weren’t self existent they couldn’t exist.
Nihilism, I don’t know, Neitche, Kuerkegaard, whatever they are, forget it.
Okay. Thinking things are self existent and thinking things aren’t self existent
couldn’t exist. And Madyamika goes through the middle, that’s why it’s called
Madyamika. That ain’t the two extremes we’re talking about here. We’re not
talking about why Madyamikas called Madyamika. We’re talking about why
not staying called not staying. Somebody forgot that line. I brought it up as an
example of extreme and then some people took it to mean …
[student: question, for the purposes of the test, is it alright to paraphrase and say
what staying and not staying in samsara or nirvana or do you want ..]
That’s alright. You won’t get anything wrong. You won’t lose any points. It’s
just good for you to say the nirvana which doesn’t stay doesn’t stay in the
extreme of peace which means lower nirvana, and doesn’t stay in the extreme of
the world which means samsara. That would be precise. Okay. Vilma, describe
the three main parts of the method for achieving nirvana.
[student: the three main parts are the training in wisdom…]
Is number one, [student: is number one] which perceives selflessness okay.
[student: right andm and that … ] It would be very nice if you said that. The
training in wisdom which perceives selflessness.
[student: and that wisdom is from is under the, is under concentration and
morality..]
Is under the influence of, or how about immersed in. I like that . That’s nice.
Immersed in. It’s immersed in what?
[student: concentration and morality]
The training in concentration and morality. Okay. A lot of people thought those
were the three steps. They’re not. They thought that the three trainings were
the three steps, that’s not. You’re doing it correctly. She’s saying training
number one relates to step one, trainings number two and three relate to step
number two. And then what’s step number three?
[student: it’s when you have lost the habit of seeing things as self existent and ..]
No, it was the opposite. It was getting the habit of what?
[student: of seeing things as empty.]
Yeah. Of realizing emptiness. Practicing realizing emptiness,{ toksing gonpa}
Practicing what you saw on the path of seeing. Going over and over what you
saw on the path of seeing. Habituating yourself to what you saw on the path of
seeing. And I really prefer it if you say it that way. Getting used to what you
saw on the path of seeing. You saw emptiness. Getting used to the emptiness
which you understood directly for the first time, saw directly for the first time.
That’s the third step. So step two has two parts. Step two has two trainings.
Whose turn? Regina.
[unclear] Respectful for a lady in Thailand. My dear sister. What is important to
iden … why is it important to identify the object we deny? Why is it important
to identify self existency?
Remember?
[student: I do. Because we want to know what emptiness is but before we know
that we have to know what it is we deny. That is the self.]
Good. It’s what emptiness is empty of. If that’s all you put, I’ll be happy. Okay.
It’s what emptiness is empty of. f you don’t know what emptiness is empty of,
how do you know that emptiness exists? It’s a self existent thing. You have to be
able to imagine a self existent thing. Can you have an imagination of a self
existent thing? Yes. Is there a self existent thing? No. Are you alright?
[student: no, ‘cos I can’t find my homework from class eight.]
[student: you weren’t supposed to read it off the homework anyway.]
Okay. Three different people in the magic show. What’s going on?
[Laughter]
[student: um, the spectator is like …]
By the way, I prefer you say this, the original spectator, or something like that
cause the last guys a spectator too.
[student: okay, I’ve got it backward in a sense. So the spectator is like somebody
who has not perceived emptiness directly and both sees things as self existent
and believes they’re self existent. And the magician is like somebody who has
perceived emptiness directly and sees things as self existent but knows perfectly
well they’re not …]
After he comes out of that meditation. Someone who has in the past seen
emptiness directly. He’s now out of that perception. He’s walking around with
his …]
[student: how can you see things if you’re in the perception of emptiness?]
Please make it clear that ….
[All talking]
he’s post meditation. It’s important because number three’s what?
[student: so then the late comer is like someone who is a sentient being, a non
Buddhist sentient being who is at that very moment seeing emptiness directly.]
Right. And ….
[student: he doesn’t see it as a horse and doesn’t believe it’s a horse.]
Okay, good. Does he believe in anything else by the way?
[student: not at that moment.]
Yeah. He can’t think this is this, this is that, what we call …[tape ends]


 ACI Course II: Buddhist Refuge-November 1993
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